I play demon drive pedals. I used to play really fast thrash type metal (throw down/old school Metallica type). I used to crank the tension and move the beaters fairly close to try and give myself an advantage in speed. I was also a beater against the drum most of the time between beats player. I was able to get fairly fast this way when just running double bass. I say fast, slayer fast, not some of the new hard core fast with kids on axis pedals and triggers. It wasn’t until I started playing more blues and slower music that I really enjoyed playing my drums. You hear the drum so much more in a more dynamic and open setting; playing that slower music. So how they sound becomes more important and how they feel, especially when playing a groove, becomes more important. I started moving my beater back and I’m barely further than 45 degrees and my tension is on the slack side. Not loose but not middle road. I can feel the pedal and I feel more control in the pedal. I can actually get faster this way than before with less fatigue. My gallops and maneuvers that require more control are way easier. Slowing down, letting the drums be drums, and focusing on my technique made me a better drummer than treating them like trash can lids with Danny Carey sized sticks lol. It also made me love the tone and feeling my drums give. I’ve got a 2800$ kit all together. Pearl session drums, drum rack, a few crash and splash cymbals, a nice ride, and mostly basic stuff but loving them has made them sound so good. Experimenting with drum heads and tuning. I started all of that because of watching your videos. I play a new style, a new way, better, and love my drums more because of your videos. To say I’m grateful wouldn’t really be saying it but we’re all drummers here and you know how it feels to love your instruments so thank you for bringing that back for me.
I've been dealing with this problem off and on for years, I have to be more patient and listen I don't know if anything has to do with it that I am a left-handed drummer. Bass drum is handled with my left foot? Thanks for the help good stuff
Love this channel! I’m a drummer of 10+ years and had many teachers and people vaguely mention parts of these concepts but nothing as in depth and concise as this channel. I’ve watched almost all your videos and my drums sound WAY more expensive and better than they actually are because of your advise. THANK YOU! Seriously incredible content. Love it
I signed in to TH-cam for the first time in 10 years just to tell you that this video completely changed my drumming abilities. My pedal control is leaps and bounds better than what it used to be because of your advice. Thank you!!!!!
So glad to hear it! We have new videos every week (Tuesdays at 12:30pm EST) including tutorials and actionable advice relating to drum sounds/tuning and equipment. Cheers!
Hard to put into words how much I appreciate this channel and this crew. You're helping us get info and start to answer small but incredibly important questions about our gear
Long story short, I've been playing for a long time. I'm just now starting to not suck. I'm analyzing the gear more, too. Just watched your video, adjusted the tension, angle and length, instantly able to hit faster and more controled. Feels like my foot found home, haha! Thanks man!
I hadn't found a good video on this topic until yours. So many adjustments, and the manufacturers don't describe the trade offs. Thank you for giving us ways to logically think about these adjustments.
Your videos are so great. You go into such detail, which helps any drummer from novice to expert. Thank you for taking the time on each of your videos.
Thanks so much, Danny! If you're interested in gaining access to even more content and would like to support the series so we can continue to create more and more, please consider joining our Patreon.
Sounds Like A Drum I definitely will. As of right now it’s a little tight being I’m on disability. I had 7 spine surgeries. I am finally playing drums again. But I definitely will try because your channel is worth it!
@@Danfromoverthere Heal up soon! Definitely sending good vibes your way and we're glad to hear that you're playing drums again. Thanks for your support! -Ben
Thanks for putting this video together, I tell students all the time that their pedal has loads of adjustments and that each really can affect their sound. I think it is also worth mentioning that the strike area of the bass drum is also a factor to consider. I use an 18” kick and when I play jazz, I place the drum flat on the floor so that the strike area of the beater is off center. This, in conjunction with my Vic Firth Fleece Lined Beater (VKB3) gives a really warm, round, and diffused sound. When I want more beef to the kick for fusion, R&B, or funk, I used a Gibraltar BD Platform to raise the drum up a couple of inches off the floor and switch to the VKB4 Cajon Beater (or VKB5 Wood Shaft, if i need more attack). Now the strike area is in the center of the drum and I get a more focused and punchy sound. Neither requires me to alter the overall set up of my direct drive Yamaha pedal (other than the beater, of course). Love the video and the information you provide as always.
You’re quite welcome! Hopefully this serves as a great resource for people when they’re tuning their bass drum pedal settings. We make reference to the beater contact point a bit towards the end of the video though that’s something we’re going to cover more in depth within forthcoming bass drum tuning video. Cheers!
Just bought my first double pedal. It is bouncing and making a double hit when I don't want it to. Went fro.a pearl single to a PDP double. This video had a ton of input that I am going to use now. Never knew anything about this. I'm just a bedroom drummer. Lol, but I still want to sound as good as I can. Thank you!!
Cheers to your channel and to all drumming sisters and brothers! Been using the Pearl Eliminator Pedals you recommended in your video exclusively for 15 years straight. Absolutely the most dependable, smooth, quiet, infinitely adjustable and low-maintenance pedal on the market hands down. After you figure out your preferred beater length and stroke angle , the spring tension is linked to an ingenious low-friction floating pendulum. These combined all give you a huge range of pedal action and feel. Then start easily swapping cams with a one-touch button, and the possibilities are infinite. You'll notice the differences between them immediately. A solid steel baseplate adds great stability as well. A truly revolutionary pedal. Just beware the radical red ultra powercam. Due to it's shape, it can gouge your bass drum batter head if you tilt your bass drums toward you when you're setup and playing. Only maintenance is a few drops of TriFlo liquid Teflon at all bearing casings and moving parts after about every 10 hours of cumulative playtime, and you'll have no worries. Own 3 currently, sold a fourth to a buddy who loved the action. Hint-- you can sometimes get 'em cheap used with low mileage on CL and eBay with case and accessories... **Look at the black footboard paint-- if it looks really clean and intact, the pedal probably didn't see a lot of heavy action. Mine are bare metal after hundreds of hours, and still going strong!!
I just bought these, to be honest I can't really stand them. Too many adjustments. I've tried every single adjustment but they never ever feel right, I feel like I can't even play, and it's total frustration. No combination of adjustment feels right. I feel like the cheaper pedals have a better feel and response. They try to smooth out too much with these expensive pedals and so many adjustments it seems to work against a simple design. I think I'm going to have to get rid of them. I had the same issue with the DW 5000 but not nearly as much, at least those I made work and got by fine and could play. But I wanted something different and hoped another brand would work, but man, I can't stand these eliminators.
@@VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM "No combination of adjustment feels right". "Too many adjustments". Suggestion: Start with beater angle pitch at approx 45 degrees from bass drum head and lock. Set spring to medium tension and lock. Install black cam [smaller circle]. Choose footboard Height and position / power shifter all the way back [easiest, esp if your feet are size 12 or greater] and lock. Do basic bass beat patterns and take notes on what feels good / bad. Then start addressing any issues. Simplest adjustment is spring tension, then changing cams: white circle is lightest feel; blue makes you work a little harder, but offers more power in the stroke. Type of beater makes a HUGE difference. I burn thru the stock Pearl beaters fairly quickly, so I replace them with heavy felt Danmars, and I use beater weights for more mass / power. Good luck. Feel free to reply.
I figured out the problem. The springs are way to stiff. No amount of adjusting would help, because if I loosened it, then it was way too loose on the other end or even floppy. I went to lowes today, and bought bunch of springs. I found one that is way looser and thinner. Man it's a world of a difference. The spring now gives far more consistent tension too, since it's stretched at least a little at all times and stretches consistently throughout the spring. This isn't even just a preference thing, I think quality control may be off and these recent springs are dramatically too tight and strong. But I feel like I can play and enjoy it again. Massive change in playability.
@@VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Excellent! Often, one simple change makes all the difference. Contact Pearl in Nashville and discuss your spring QC issue. Perhaps they'll send some replacements. Don't be afraid to experiment with different cams. The white one gives a very smooth, easy stroke if you don't want to work too hard. Rock on!!
Man, my son (8 now) got into drums almost two years ago so I've basically taken up the role of drum-tech. He just got his first double beater and I cannot begin to explain how helpful this video was. I went from wanting to return the thing (Tama Cobra) because he said it wasn't comfortable to play to now having to pry him away from the kit at bedtime.
That tip of the tension of the spring for the kick pedal was one I didn’t know. Thanks for that and was actually a good one because not everyone uses the foot the same way to press down for the beater to hit the bass drum accurately in time. 🤘🏼
Been watching your videos for the past couple weeks. Just wanna say your channel and information is highly valuable and much appreciated. Thanks very much!
I lost sensation in my R foot following back surgery, but didn't give up playing. It would be cool if you did a vid on throne hight, different techniques, as well as foot placement. I'm still working on a hybrid technique where I drop my heel, and feel the beater from the rebound. This is your show, I'm just thinking outloud
I arrived independently at a similar setup to Mr. Bailey. I can get doubles out just fine heel up and still have plenty of dynamic control heel down. With a wide open, medium tensioned bass drum I can bury the beater to mute the drum or let it bounce off for more resonance. It's a pretty versatile setup.
After trying many pedals, I've found that for me, it was worth the wait and expense of the DW Machine Chain Drive. Before that, I really liked the different cams offered with the Pearl Eliminator that I played the most during the past maybe 15 years until I found the DW....... I think in this case, you get what you pay for, but at times, I've been amazed at the feel and speed of some very low cost pedals; therefore, there is much to be gained by experimenting and knowing your pedals, and this should also apply to each and every aspect of our instruments and hardware because it all matters depending on your size, weight, flexibility, and limitations maybe from age and injuries such as I have been dealing with for quite a few years now. Another fabulous lesson Cody.... Thanks and Blessings!!!
Great video that'll get beginners or others who've never really addressed these adjustments playing more responsively. 2 items.... 1- beater length needs to account for both how you want/ need the pedal to feel and also where it strikes the head to give you the sound you want... sometimes it's a compromise!! Secondly, there's lighter and heavier springs (tension... via the gauge metal used in the spring) that you can use to help create the feel you're after. After 5 decades of playing my preference is a heavier spring with less tension on it vs. a lighter spring with more tension. This gives me the necessary rebound characteristics I'm after without being "too springy". Years ago I actually got a completely different spring from a spring mfg. and modified it to fit the pedal.... It's still a very responsive pedal though I've moved on to the higher end DW pedals. Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Keep up the good work!!
14:15 It might be worth mentioning that 4-3/4" with a DW dual beater won't necessarily feel the same as a Pearl Quad beater, or a classic felt beater, etc. Different manufacturers can use different shaft diameters, materials, etc. Just keep those differences in mind if you're thinking about a different style of beater.
Another good, informative vid...You guys always deliver. I go for a quite low spring tension, beater at about a 45’ angle, about 1/4” of beater shaft sticking out below the sleeve - that usually gets me about to the middle of the batter head and gives me a slingshotty, lever feel with lots of control. I use an old Gretsch Floating Action leather strap drive. Great feel, great control. I like the Vickick felt covered wood, or the Vater Bomber beater for jazzier tunes. Works well for me for groove oriented stuff- funky, jazzy, bluesy, stuff that works well with controlled playing, more tone than attack, etc. A good simple (pretty loose) strap drive pedal is a beautiful thing, it’s just you and the bass drum - nothing between you. A very natural, organic response and rhythm.
Never even knew anything about adjusting my bass drum pedal. Just got an old used kit not too long ago and really haven’t liked the bass pedal. This video is gonna be a lifesaver
your videos are the best ive seen at addressing these subjects that no one will explain.....ive owned drums for 35 years....my primary instrument is guitar....and never understood clearly how these adjustments work with each other.... i prefer medium tension....too loose SOUNDS sloppy to me, and the beater hits my damn ankle.... too tight and i cant do roughs...and its too slow....i still have to 'warm up' but its worth it to have it at medium tension. Also your snare tuning videos are the best.
Good lesson...definitely a variety of dynamic components (head tension, spring, angle, etc.) which all add up to change the feel. Best bet is to find what feels good & be able to replicate no matter the pedal.
Man, if only this video was around 35 years ago when I was spending way too much of my time and energy obsessing, fidgeting and futzing with my kick pedal to figure out the things that you’ve addressed exceptionally in 20 minutes.
I just treated myself to 2 DW 9000 XF single pedals. I compared them to the Tama Speed Cobra and I couldn’t get used to the feel of the Speed Cobra nor could I get it to do what I wanted. The 9000 did everything effortlessly, smooth and quiet as a grease lined cloud. I’ve been playing 5000 pedals forever so I guess I knew the answer before I asked myself the question. Sometimes you want a big Cadillac with a HUGE V8 engine and that’s what DW pedals are to me.
We wanted to build a resource library and see if people would latch onto the information. It’s been great to see so many people having positive experiences with tuning and gear as a result of our videos. If you’d like to support our efforts and ensuring that we’re able to keep producing free content for all, please consider joining our Patreon and you’ll gain access to our new exclusive cymbal series as well as a wide range of other bonus content and opportunities. Cheers!
The bass pedal and even more so the double bass pedal is an enigma,I can never get a great feel,I love a loose tension but my new Pearl’s ,I can’t dial in properly with all the different cams,started with the black then ordered the purple,that felt great but made the sensitivity feel off and made the pedal create more noise,then I tried the white(clear) cam and the noise is almost gone but a better feel but still experimenting with tension,I remember back in the 80’s,I owned this big Sonar pedal ,it had a full rubber foot plate but a nylon cam instead of a double chain and that thing was fantastic for fast single foot playing,I could do triplets with that pedal on one foot,the Pearl ,even though I love it,there is always compromise when using a double pedal because the left pedal will never feel ss sensitive when you are not only dealing with the pedal spring but also the rod that connects it to the maun pedal which creates a slight mushyness and slower feel.
The thumbnail on this video attracted me to this video. When I saw the runtime on the video I left because there are other videos half the length of this video
We hope you are able to find the detail and context in a format that allows you to retain the information even if it means it’s not through one of our videos. Patience goes a long way to learning this stuff and knowing how/when to put it into action.
I think that one of the most important pieces of our equipment is the Bass Pedal, and it's often overlooked and for sure, misunderstood. Most adjustments are as personal as playing Brushes, and the more we "explore," the more we learn. About the only thing I might add as a possible benefit for many players is to take a look into the Dixson Bass Drum Lift, I can assure you that many players will be pleasantly surprised as I was, and now I have two, and use them on my 18" and 20" Bass drums, although they are used up to 24" Bass drums. The price is right, and the sound will be enhanced, and you gain additional options for your pedal adjustment and protect your Bass drum hoop, and that's always a good thing! Without naming pedals, I've owned and or tried about ten different pedal manufacturers wares, and they are all good if you learn the pedal, but for me, there is one standout, and I prefer the chain drive, and it offers five different cam shifts that can be changed from song to song, and for my "older" feet, I can truly feel the difference and it's all about pedal control. Another excellent video Gents, stay the course!
Excellent point with regards to the potential add on of a bass drum lift. I (Ben) use the Dixson lift regardless of whether I’m using my 22” but especially if I’m using anything smaller. We’ll be getting into more of that when we talk bass drum tuning and address beater contact location and angle. Cheers!
Another great video. Love the explanation of how settings affect practical aspects of playing, in fact, one of the great things about all these videos is they all link to practical, every day playing.
Another great video filled with useful info. You guys answered a lot of the questions I had about which way was better to have my pedal set for the specific way that I’m playing . Thx as always . Keep them coming !!!!
Great video again! Thanks everybody for all your hard work making the series. It takes a village and thank every one of you again. I agree totally, price matters zip. My main pedal is believe it or not a 12 year old Vex Touring Pro. I bought it to use on my home kit while my main pedal stayed at the practise space. It was a mid range name brand from one of the big 3 and expensive for me ($249). After fussing with it and the springs breaking twice and everything else, I realized I had been stomping the crap outta those Vex pedals for years and they never have let me down in any way and feel great under foot. Straight outta the box, on the floor, and played them over 10 years straight, only oiling and cleaning them per usual kit on cleaning days. I bought another set and now its my main pedal, is absolutely bulletproof and I swear as good or better than anyone elsesand cost 99 bucks free delivery! Don't believe the hype, believe your feet. Price and big names and celebrity endorsers dont mean a thing. Great video man and Im sorry for coming off like a salesman but ive wasted too much money learning the hard way. Just my two cents.
Thanks so much for the kind words! We couldn't agree more- there are lots of factors to weigh and some will be more important than others but we strongly encourage taking a practical look at the gear and your playing to assess what makes the most sense. Cheers!
Thank you for this video. I just started drumming and couldn’t tell why my pedals were too low it was hard to hit hard. I didn’t know you can actually move the angle. I was just messing with the tension spring. Dumb I know.
I just decided to rediscover my Speed King after putting it away in favor of a Yamaha 720 that I bought in 1984! What fun. So different, but cool. Like driving g a vintage car. But it does have a camming action that I am liking. Some newer pedals are just too adjustable and too heavy. The squeak king folds up and weighs little. I am back to also using Ludwig flat base stands because I hate the schlep! You'll get there too kids. Dad.
I went to a jam event last night just to check it out but actually became the drummer for a big part of it; It was a lot of fun, especially since I hadn't played in quite some time, but man was my right leg getting sore because of that house kit's kick pedal set-up, with the beater close to the drum head and the spring tension being rather low! How I wished I'd brought a drum key! 😆
An aside - I use one of those dw pancake kick drums, but was having a problem with the top of the drum moving when playing, which would give it a mushy feel. I found a Gibraltar SC-RP171 clamp, which is made to hold a hi hat stand off of your left kick (in a two-kick setup). It works GREAT to keep the drum planted. I attach one side to the drum and the other side to the cymbal stand I have in front. $30 (Amazon) solved my problem!
My very first pedal was a Ludwig Speed Master (not Speed King) it was a pinned strap drive all angles were fixed no adjustments! Only the spring tension was adjustable. It had a long single piece foot board and the hinge was located underneath the foot board in about the same position that a split foot board hinge would be. That was a great pedal! DW is considering offering a single piece footboard as a replacement if they get enough requests for it...
This is an awesome video. I am prob on the looser side. I get the jimmy legs sometimes and that helps me not hit the head too often. I feel it more. I'm no pro, but I seriously appreciate what you just told me for 20 friggin minutes :)
Started playing drums at 15 and stopped playing at 23. I'm 49 now and getting back into drumming. People and other musicians 5hought i was a greaT player. I knew i couldnt do bonham bassdrum triplets...I promised myself i will overcome it. Anyway, i adjusted my pedal and practiced for a week....now i can do fast doubles....if I could turn back the hands of time....and now can play half time shuffles like the song Rosanna...in less than 2 weeks, ive overcome half a lifetime of doubt and frustration. Adjusting my pedal and buying a practice pad did the trick....and I stopped listening to and playing easy hair metal music...lol
I stopped playing in 2004. Then just started up again recently, it only took like a month to get better than I was before. Amazing how much sticks with you, but then again I was constantly air drumming and playing beats in my head.
On another specific to this video; I use a Tama Classic series pedal (HP50) that I saw Peter Erskine push a few years ago. It’s got a built in riser which is great for back lined bass drums of different sizes and other limiting factors as well as the spring tension being vertical like the old Rogers Swivomaric pedal which is great on your back! Only down side is that it’s a single drive pedal I wish it’d have either a strap drive or a double drive. Who knows maybe I can change it out for a strap one of these days
I believe I tried this adjustment where its more flat and didnt like it. I may try again and see if it makes much of a difference. Thanks for the unique and informative videos.😁
The other day I had my step meter on in my pocket during a 3 hour drum session. Turns out you easily surpass 10000 (!) kicks in that amount of time. Goes to show the importance of learning the stuff in this vid
Very good informative video. It's almost like i'm hearing myself talking to other drummers that I meet and jam with. I to personally like a lower tension, and I.M.O you get to control the pedal and not the other way around. This topic is a must because many drummers that I've met do not know why or how to get a proper pedal setup. The fact that Colin Bailey basically agrees to what you started off with in the video, just about says it all. I've met drummers and played on their drum sets, that the tension was so tight I had to get off the set because I thought I was going to tear my calf and break my ankles. :). When you play a pedal you should not have to go into a prize fight, it should be where the pedal is extension of your leg and ankle. BTW I've used just about every pedal there is and I have found that certain pedals are MUCH better than others, but no matter what pedal you're using, you must adjust it properly and it must be an extension of you, and most of all, you must not fight the pedal.
Wellcome back! BTW- we've got LOTS of additional videos on setup and tuning (if you haven't already watched a few). New tutorial episodes every Tuesday!
Recently i got fed up with my spastic wandering right foot, which led me to switch my whole set up to playing everything shifted to the right. Left leg bass pedal right leg hi hat. Makes my brain hurt after an hour and my left leg is weak af. After seeing this I want my normal set up back. 😂
Very helpful video. I grew up playing a Speed King and there is something about those twin compression springs that work extremely well for me, but for a number of reasons I used a modern pedal. I wish I could find one that felt like, and was as easy to play as the SK. I've tried the Yamaha Direct Drive, the Iron Cobra, various DWs. The Eliminator is working for me, but doesn't feel like an SK.
I’ve been playing Ludwig Speed King pedals forever, and recently decided it was time to try something more up-to-date. While the SK is an amazing pedal, it is decidedly low-tech by today’s standards in terms of clamp mechanism / beater attachment. Many times that simple wing nut holding the beater shaft has loosened up and the whole beater rod slid right down during a gig. Anyway, it took a lot of effort trying to duplicate the precise tension / angle / stroke length of the SK but I’ve come close with a Yamaha direct drive pedal. The big difference is the compression spring in the Ludwig have a very different action.
Thank you so much for the video. It's very helpful. I have a question that I hope you can help me with. I play heel up and I bury my beater. When my spring is tight, my pedal sometimes makes unwanted hits when I bury the beater. I hope you know what I mean. I hit the bass drum, and then because the tension is high, the pedal has an extra unwanted hit. How do I avoid that?
Thx a lot for your work. On my 18 inch bassdrum i have a Big pb. My beat is top high… and if i use a lifter, the strike angle is more than 90 degrees which is horrible to play. Any advise ? Thx !
There are a lot of pedals where you can adjust the foot board angle separate from the beeter angle as well. From the video it’s hard to tell but you may be able to adjust yours as well by loosening the strap drive where it attaches to the cam and moving it forward or back a little
You’re right, many have that option - these Yamahas don’t at all but I’ve become accustomed to them and don’t worry about it. When I had my first Tama Iron Cobra back in the day I went crazy adjusting all that stuff and ended up with the factory settings in the end 😂 -Cody
I have been playing Direct Drive pedals since 2006. I have used TRICK and Axis double pedals, and now am currently using Pearl Elimantors which I find to be the best out of the 3. I JUST bought this PDP double pedal from a guy in my town for cheap simply out of curiosity on how these cheaper direcr drive pedals are. I havent played it much yet BUT i can see where the flaws are already so for shits N giggles i am going to see if I can enhance the pedal with some simple tweeking. We will see how it turns out.
Great video. In your typed comments in the video the first 2 settings say 'good for less muffled drum'. I play quite muffled, and mostly heel up. What would be a good setting for this scenario in your opinion?
Another question would be the difference of feel and sound when the beater strikes either in the middle of the batter head or in the upper third area as i think is the case in thos video. There the skin rebound is logically more i intense because the head tension increases toward the edge of the drumhead.
Guitarists say drummers are dummies and no brains, its channels lie this that prove the drummer is the thinking mans musicians, so many variables on top of limb independence not to mention the gear variations handsets ups...thank you for all you videos and advice, much love for you guys.
I think there is a mistake both configurations advise heel down. I thought second cofiguration is for heel up? Its hard to bury the beater wth heel down although possible. Am i missing something?
I know this isn’t about snares but wanted ask if you can do a video on why the strainer wires loosen after hitting sometimes not many strokes. I have an expensive snare and after 10 hits or more it’s as if someone loosened the tension screw while playing. I’m constantly stopping flipping lever down then back up then it’s good. Over and over why is this?
Couldn’t find the DW rocker so I gave a try to something similar found on Amazon 10 unids U624ZZ Mini U Groove Ball Bearing 4 * 13 * 7mm … it works wonders !!!
I play a drum with a full reso head. I tend to back the spring tension off a bit. The liveliness of the 2 heads interacting tends to give the beater more rebound naturally. That said when i play on a kit with a ported head I will increase the spring tension.
After looking @ some pedals I realized there is 1 thing you did not address that I’m still befuddled by, spring angle. Some pedals allow you to move the spring fore or aft rather than just straight down. Or the pivot point where the spring hangs from the cam can also have multiple angle options. This sort of seems like maybe too many minute & potentially unnecessary options or am I missing something?
the mass and texture of the beater has a huge influence on the sound, in addition to how hard you hit the drum, which also has a huge influence on the sound. In addition, how you set up the beater relative to the drum shell is enormously important, and changing the beater is a huge area of investigation which alters both pedal feel and sound.
It’s funny to me cause as a recording engineer, I have found that the feel of the bass drum changes a lot with different beaters but the sound changes mininally to none, usually with some high frequency loss the softer the beater. Other than that I have A/B’d a huge variety of different beaters on recordings and I find that they don’t influence the sound as much as the feel of playing the bass drum.
@@TheRealCowlick if you can't hear the difference between a hard beater and a mop, you are doing something wrong. A hard beater vs a very hard beater on a knackered drum head? Not much of a difference, and loads of people are missing that 16kHz top end in their ears.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 I should’ve emphasised more on my statement that there is high frequency loss (naturally from transitioning from harder beaters to softer ones). Surface area and material density also play a role of course in slight change of pitch/tone. That is about the only change you’re gonna get from a spot mic though, let alone from a natural/room mic. The knock, body and character of the kick sound will be much more significantly altered by choice of drum head and muffling than by choice of beater. That’s all I’m trying to say.
@@TheRealCowlick how's about the pedal? Or the player? I find it is mainly a question of aligning the tuning of the room to the tuning of the drum. Let me tell you the oddest thing I have learned playing drums - the sticks make a bigger different to the sound than you think. Clack them together. Loud? Well, how about suspending the stick from a fishing line, so it can resonate freely? How you hold the stick makes a lot of difference, if you aren't "open" you are choking the resonance, and how much "choke" or "muting" to use is where the control comes from. Deadness is flatness, and you can't tell anything if it is a dead kit in a dead room. If you play with one head on the drum and a cushion pushed up against the skin, you won't find much articulation as a player, or gain much by changing to a hard beater.
@@TheRealCowlick Put both heads on the kick drum with no stupid hole in the resonant head, and take the stuffing out. Now you can learn to play the kick drum. Changes your playing to "go to jazz school", but it's worth it. Sound engineers who do this to somebody who can't play with an "open" kick with both heads on, it's unfair. They will not know what the hell is happening, and it'll sound awful. You can get a lot more out of the kick drum than you think, but it takes a lot of skill.
Thanks, your content is top notch! question im playing on a freinds 1960 ludwig (ringo) set he has a dw5000 that when i try to attach, the beater hits way ahead of center?
With beater length, it makes a difference where on the drumhead you strike. So if you're on an 18 vs a 22, you'll either be striking in a different location or you'll have to adjust your beater length.
Or use the Dixson Bass Drum Lift to avoid altering your pedal. That was an essential addition for me when I owned an 18”. I couldn’t handle the beater any lower as it was already at the 4” shaft length below the beater head. Some guys can adapt ‘on the fly’ but I couldn’t so the Dixson riser saved me the grief.
@@mmjuuno Yes-- if you can't actually take the pedal apart, then you can use some WD-40 or other rust/lubrication degunker on the inside and outside of both towers at the rotating part at the tops where the ball bearings are. Use the tube in the nozzle to help direct the spray better. Some of that WD-40 will be able to penetrate into the crevices and should help to free it up. Might take repeated tries. I have done this successfully on several different pedals that came with vintage drum sets that I've picked up here and there. Good luck! :)
@@mmjuuno Also forgot to add: if your ball bearings are good, then also check your chain. It can, on occasion, get crooked and not fall into the beater shaft slot properly aligned. This happens if the piece that the beater shaft fits into is jockeyed too much to the left or right. You would have to position it correctly so the chain follows a straight path upon depression and lift-up, then tighten down. Also if the pedal is used, it could be that the previous owner took apart the pedal at the towers and did not put it back together again properly-- in that case you would have to disassemble the pedal and figure out what is going on in there. I hope this helps!
This dude RULES. I had some issues with my strainer lock on my Black Beauty and this man broke it down so genuinely detail oriented in a good dude kind of way. Like, I could jam with that dude!! I also play guitar and bass guitar but drums are everything to me, I love it so much it actually makes me cry sometimes.
Such an excellent analysis of settings... Here’s an odd newbie question... You mentioned “if it feels right to you” - do you have a link to one of your videos that goes over what that “feel” should feel like? Lol For the longest time, I had the spring tension too high. But since I have no frame of reference as to what it’s supposed feel like - I struggled and thought that was normal. Now I loosened it, and the beater is double tapping.
I just read a comment from a drum teacher on another video saying loose is the way to go for speed. I've never messed with my pedal so I was going to try it out and see.
@@insertmetalusernamehere Thx for the reply! I've been messing with all the settings and think (?) I got it where I want it. I don't have to press the pedal too hard, and once it gets going it feels like a basketball? I'm able to play mid 1/16 tempos (120-160) pretty solidly and able to take it up to 190 1/6ths without issue. Still have that left foot double tap, though. Asked my drum teacher and he's going to show me an exercise to fix it. So I think I have it. X'ing fingers - that double tap sux
Interesting video. The rebound/tension of the bass drum head is also important. There's a guy on facebook advertising his bass drum control courses. He's extremely fast, but recommends to take out the spring altogether and rely only on the rebound. No idea, how he can play that fast with this setup. I also recall a video by Mike Portnoy. He might not be the speed king of all times, but he's still pretty fast. And his beater in resting position was almost horizontal and the spring tension very low. Very complex mechanical system...
Is there any formula for getting the left foot of a double bass drum peddle feeling the same as the right foot ? I am new to a double bass drum peddle. And i didnt expect the left side to feel so different. Its partially because my left foot isnt used to being a bass drum foot. But i can also feel the extension bar. And the way the beater hits the head seems less solid. DW 5000.
Thank you so much for making this! I like to say I built my roof before I poured my foundation with drums and it's the things like this I skipped over or was never taught in my early year! Thanks!
HI, I struggled for years to get quick doubles, I had a Dw 4000,then an Iron cobra , it drove me crazy, turns out the cheapest cheapest Mapex pedal (single or double) works for me.
I'm having that same issue. I had a cheap pearl pedal a long time ago that worked so good, I was so fast, it felt natural. It had this really steep angle to it. Then I bought the DW 5000 and it never felt right, no matter the adjustment, but at least I made it work ok and got by. I got back into drums and thought I'd try another expensive model, the pearl eliminators, and I hate those, they are even worse! I can't even play hardly. It seems impossible to get the dozen settings just right. The spring is always too tight just as it hits the head. If I loosen it, it's too loose at the other end. No settings feel good, feels overly smoothed out and response is never correct, like it feels dull or something. I think they over engineer these things and it works against them. But they do it to sell at higher prices. I think tomorrow I'm going to go down and buy some cheap pedals again.
@@VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM @TCK Once you start adjusting lol. The Dw looked basically the same to me as the Mapex (it's a pedal after all) even felt the same,you know the spring tension test ,how many times it keeps going. I don't get it to be honest. I think it's us. My son will play either, the little ...He's a perfectionist but some things he doesn't seem to notice and some how works round problems with out knowing. He has a song called " The problem with perfection" I get a mention...His mates playing drums and another the bass, he does the rest. If you fancy a listen. 2:20 and 4:00 on are my fav bits. th-cam.com/video/b-LjOb7Pxwc/w-d-xo.html have a good drum time.
Do you prefer a higher or lower spring tension?
Be sure to follow Sounds Like a Drum on Instagram at instagram.com/soundslikeadrum
Tight and far with the plastic side of the beater and no I don't play in a metal band.
High
I prefer higher spring tension
I play demon drive pedals. I used to play really fast thrash type metal (throw down/old school Metallica type). I used to crank the tension and move the beaters fairly close to try and give myself an advantage in speed. I was also a beater against the drum most of the time between beats player. I was able to get fairly fast this way when just running double bass. I say fast, slayer fast, not some of the new hard core fast with kids on axis pedals and triggers. It wasn’t until I started playing more blues and slower music that I really enjoyed playing my drums. You hear the drum so much more in a more dynamic and open setting; playing that slower music. So how they sound becomes more important and how they feel, especially when playing a groove, becomes more important. I started moving my beater back and I’m barely further than 45 degrees and my tension is on the slack side. Not loose but not middle road. I can feel the pedal and I feel more control in the pedal. I can actually get faster this way than before with less fatigue. My gallops and maneuvers that require more control are way easier. Slowing down, letting the drums be drums, and focusing on my technique made me a better drummer than treating them like trash can lids with Danny Carey sized sticks lol. It also made me love the tone and feeling my drums give. I’ve got a 2800$ kit all together. Pearl session drums, drum rack, a few crash and splash cymbals, a nice ride, and mostly basic stuff but loving them has made them sound so good. Experimenting with drum heads and tuning. I started all of that because of watching your videos. I play a new style, a new way, better, and love my drums more because of your videos. To say I’m grateful wouldn’t really be saying it but we’re all drummers here and you know how it feels to love your instruments so thank you for bringing that back for me.
Sounds Like A Drum high
You are putting out some professional content on a topic that needed to be addressed. Seriously man, you're filling a need. Keep it up brother.
He's a bit of a bona fide legend.
Particularly notable anongst the sea of.......out there
WOW! I've been in the dark for years....in 15 minutes you've turned my iron cobra into what it should be! THANK YOU!! Great video
I've been dealing with this problem off and on for years, I have to be more patient and listen I don't know if anything has to do with it that I am a left-handed drummer. Bass drum is handled with my left foot? Thanks for the help good stuff
Love this channel! I’m a drummer of 10+ years and had many teachers and people vaguely mention parts of these concepts but nothing as in depth and concise as this channel. I’ve watched almost all your videos and my drums sound WAY more expensive and better than they actually are because of your advise. THANK YOU! Seriously incredible content. Love it
I signed in to TH-cam for the first time in 10 years just to tell you that this video completely changed my drumming abilities. My pedal control is leaps and bounds better than what it used to be because of your advice. Thank you!!!!!
So glad to hear it! We have new videos every week (Tuesdays at 12:30pm EST) including tutorials and actionable advice relating to drum sounds/tuning and equipment. Cheers!
"4 and a half makes me happy." Boy I wish my wife was happy with that!
Brilliant!
Wifey not happy with your drumming?
@@discaddicted5753 His drumming must be ok... Just the wifey it's seems to like playing with different "organs" and blowing up some trumpets😂
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hard to put into words how much I appreciate this channel and this crew. You're helping us get info and start to answer small but incredibly important questions about our gear
Long story short, I've been playing for a long time. I'm just now starting to not suck. I'm analyzing the gear more, too. Just watched your video, adjusted the tension, angle and length, instantly able to hit faster and more controled. Feels like my foot found home, haha! Thanks man!
I hadn't found a good video on this topic until yours. So many adjustments, and the manufacturers don't describe the trade offs. Thank you for giving us ways to logically think about these adjustments.
Your videos are so great. You go into such detail, which helps any drummer from novice to expert. Thank you for taking the time on each of your videos.
Thanks so much, Danny! If you're interested in gaining access to even more content and would like to support the series so we can continue to create more and more, please consider joining our Patreon.
Sounds Like A Drum I definitely will. As of right now it’s a little tight being I’m on disability. I had 7 spine surgeries. I am finally playing drums again. But I definitely will try because your channel is worth it!
@@Danfromoverthere Heal up soon! Definitely sending good vibes your way and we're glad to hear that you're playing drums again. Thanks for your support! -Ben
Sounds Like A Drum thank you so much!!! And thank you again for making so many drummers lives a lot easier!!!
I like your approach, very calm, relaxed and with good information. A follower!
Thanks for putting this video together, I tell students all the time that their pedal has loads of adjustments and that each really can affect their sound. I think it is also worth mentioning that the strike area of the bass drum is also a factor to consider. I use an 18” kick and when I play jazz, I place the drum flat on the floor so that the strike area of the beater is off center. This, in conjunction with my Vic Firth Fleece Lined Beater (VKB3) gives a really warm, round, and diffused sound. When I want more beef to the kick for fusion, R&B, or funk, I used a Gibraltar BD Platform to raise the drum up a couple of inches off the floor and switch to the VKB4 Cajon Beater (or VKB5 Wood Shaft, if i need more attack). Now the strike area is in the center of the drum and I get a more focused and punchy sound. Neither requires me to alter the overall set up of my direct drive Yamaha pedal (other than the beater, of course). Love the video and the information you provide as always.
You’re quite welcome! Hopefully this serves as a great resource for people when they’re tuning their bass drum pedal settings.
We make reference to the beater contact point a bit towards the end of the video though that’s something we’re going to cover more in depth within forthcoming bass drum tuning video. Cheers!
Just bought my first double pedal. It is bouncing and making a double hit when I don't want it to. Went fro.a pearl single to a PDP double. This video had a ton of input that I am going to use now. Never knew anything about this. I'm just a bedroom drummer. Lol, but I still want to sound as good as I can. Thank you!!
Cheers to your channel and to all drumming sisters and brothers! Been using the Pearl Eliminator Pedals you recommended in your video exclusively for 15 years straight. Absolutely the most dependable, smooth, quiet, infinitely adjustable and low-maintenance pedal on the market hands down. After you figure out your preferred beater length and stroke angle , the spring tension is linked to an ingenious low-friction floating pendulum. These combined all give you a huge range of pedal action and feel. Then start easily swapping cams with a one-touch button, and the possibilities are infinite. You'll notice the differences between them immediately. A solid steel baseplate adds great stability as well. A truly revolutionary pedal. Just beware the radical red ultra powercam. Due to it's shape, it can gouge your bass drum batter head if you tilt your bass drums toward you when you're setup and playing.
Only maintenance is a few drops of TriFlo liquid Teflon at all bearing casings and moving parts after about every 10 hours of cumulative playtime, and you'll have no worries. Own 3 currently, sold a fourth to a buddy who loved the action. Hint-- you can sometimes get 'em cheap used with low mileage on CL and eBay with case and accessories... **Look at the black footboard paint-- if it looks really clean and intact, the pedal probably didn't see a lot of heavy action. Mine are bare metal after hundreds of hours, and still going strong!!
I just bought these, to be honest I can't really stand them. Too many adjustments. I've tried every single adjustment but they never ever feel right, I feel like I can't even play, and it's total frustration. No combination of adjustment feels right. I feel like the cheaper pedals have a better feel and response. They try to smooth out too much with these expensive pedals and so many adjustments it seems to work against a simple design. I think I'm going to have to get rid of them. I had the same issue with the DW 5000 but not nearly as much, at least those I made work and got by fine and could play. But I wanted something different and hoped another brand would work, but man, I can't stand these eliminators.
@@VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM "No combination of adjustment feels right". "Too many adjustments".
Suggestion: Start with beater angle pitch at approx 45 degrees from bass drum head and lock.
Set spring to medium tension and lock.
Install black cam [smaller circle].
Choose footboard Height and position / power shifter all the way back [easiest, esp if your feet are size 12 or greater] and lock.
Do basic bass beat patterns and take notes on what feels good / bad.
Then start addressing any issues.
Simplest adjustment is spring tension, then changing cams: white circle is lightest feel; blue makes you work a little harder, but offers more power in the stroke.
Type of beater makes a HUGE difference.
I burn thru the stock Pearl beaters fairly quickly, so I replace them with heavy felt Danmars, and I use beater weights for more mass / power. Good luck. Feel free to reply.
I figured out the problem. The springs are way to stiff. No amount of adjusting would help, because if I loosened it, then it was way too loose on the other end or even floppy. I went to lowes today, and bought bunch of springs. I found one that is way looser and thinner. Man it's a world of a difference. The spring now gives far more consistent tension too, since it's stretched at least a little at all times and stretches consistently throughout the spring. This isn't even just a preference thing, I think quality control may be off and these recent springs are dramatically too tight and strong. But I feel like I can play and enjoy it again. Massive change in playability.
@@VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Excellent! Often, one simple change makes all the difference.
Contact Pearl in Nashville and discuss your spring QC issue. Perhaps they'll send some replacements.
Don't be afraid to experiment with different cams. The white one gives a very smooth, easy stroke if you don't want to work too hard. Rock on!!
Man, my son (8 now) got into drums almost two years ago so I've basically taken up the role of drum-tech. He just got his first double beater and I cannot begin to explain how helpful this video was. I went from wanting to return the thing (Tama Cobra) because he said it wasn't comfortable to play to now having to pry him away from the kit at bedtime.
That tip of the tension of the spring for the kick pedal was one I didn’t know. Thanks for that and was actually a good one because not everyone uses the foot the same way to press down for the beater to hit the bass drum accurately in time. 🤘🏼
Been watching your videos for the past couple weeks. Just wanna say your channel and information is highly valuable and much appreciated. Thanks very much!
I lost sensation in my R foot following back surgery, but didn't give up playing. It would be cool if you did a vid on throne hight, different techniques, as well as foot placement. I'm still working on a hybrid technique where I drop my heel, and feel the beater from the rebound. This is your show, I'm just thinking outloud
(18:10) "It's all about the music that your making".
You'll never say it enough times. Keep up the awesome content. 😎
I arrived independently at a similar setup to Mr. Bailey. I can get doubles out just fine heel up and still have plenty of dynamic control heel down. With a wide open, medium tensioned bass drum I can bury the beater to mute the drum or let it bounce off for more resonance. It's a pretty versatile setup.
After trying many pedals, I've found that for me, it was worth the wait and expense of the DW Machine Chain Drive. Before that, I really liked the different cams offered with the Pearl Eliminator that I played the most during the past maybe 15 years until I found the DW....... I think in this case, you get what you pay for, but at times, I've been amazed at the feel and speed of some very low cost pedals; therefore, there is much to be gained by experimenting and knowing your pedals, and this should also apply to each and every aspect of our instruments and hardware because it all matters depending on your size, weight, flexibility, and limitations maybe from age and injuries such as I have been dealing with for quite a few years now. Another fabulous lesson Cody.... Thanks and Blessings!!!
Great video that'll get beginners or others who've never really addressed these adjustments playing more responsively. 2 items.... 1- beater length needs to account for both how you want/ need the pedal to feel and also where it strikes the head to give you the sound you want... sometimes it's a compromise!! Secondly, there's lighter and heavier springs (tension... via the gauge metal used in the spring) that you can use to help create the feel you're after. After 5 decades of playing my preference is a heavier spring with less tension on it vs. a lighter spring with more tension. This gives me the necessary rebound characteristics I'm after without being "too springy". Years ago I actually got a completely different spring from a spring mfg. and modified it to fit the pedal.... It's still a very responsive pedal though I've moved on to the higher end DW pedals. Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Keep up the good work!!
You’re a national treasure dude! You’ve inspired me to refurbish my old kit and I’m having a blast learning so much, thank u man 🤘🏽
Thanks for watching, Max! We appreciate the kind words. -Ben
14:15 It might be worth mentioning that 4-3/4" with a DW dual beater won't necessarily feel the same as a Pearl Quad beater, or a classic felt beater, etc. Different manufacturers can use different shaft diameters, materials, etc. Just keep those differences in mind if you're thinking about a different style of beater.
Another good, informative vid...You guys always deliver. I go for a quite low spring tension, beater at about a 45’ angle, about 1/4” of beater shaft sticking out below the sleeve - that usually gets me about to the middle of the batter head and gives me a slingshotty, lever feel with lots of control. I use an old Gretsch Floating Action leather strap drive. Great feel, great control. I like the Vickick felt covered wood, or the Vater Bomber beater for jazzier tunes. Works well for me for groove oriented stuff- funky, jazzy, bluesy, stuff that works well with controlled playing, more tone than attack, etc. A good simple (pretty loose) strap drive pedal is a beautiful thing, it’s just you and the bass drum - nothing between you. A very natural, organic response and rhythm.
BRILLIANT the way you've researched & explain all drum set playing issues -of which there are MANY!!!
Never even knew anything about adjusting my bass drum pedal. Just got an old used kit not too long ago and really haven’t liked the bass pedal. This video is gonna be a lifesaver
your videos are the best ive seen at addressing these subjects that no one will explain.....ive owned drums for 35 years....my primary instrument is guitar....and never understood clearly how these adjustments work with each other....
i prefer medium tension....too loose SOUNDS sloppy to me, and the beater hits my damn ankle....
too tight and i cant do roughs...and its too slow....i still have to 'warm up' but its worth it to have it at medium tension.
Also your snare tuning videos are the best.
Good lesson...definitely a variety of dynamic components (head tension, spring, angle, etc.) which all add up to change the feel. Best bet is to find what feels good & be able to replicate no matter the pedal.
Man, if only this video was around 35 years ago when I was spending way too much of my time and energy obsessing, fidgeting and futzing with my kick pedal to figure out the things that you’ve addressed exceptionally in 20 minutes.
I just treated myself to 2 DW 9000 XF single pedals. I compared them to the Tama Speed Cobra and I couldn’t get used to the feel of the Speed Cobra nor could I get it to do what I wanted. The 9000 did everything effortlessly, smooth and quiet as a grease lined cloud. I’ve been playing 5000 pedals forever so I guess I knew the answer before I asked myself the question. Sometimes you want a big Cadillac with a HUGE V8 engine and that’s what DW pedals are to me.
Man, i cannot believe yall put all this high quality stuff and information just out there for free! Thanks a bunch
We wanted to build a resource library and see if people would latch onto the information. It’s been great to see so many people having positive experiences with tuning and gear as a result of our videos. If you’d like to support our efforts and ensuring that we’re able to keep producing free content for all, please consider joining our Patreon and you’ll gain access to our new exclusive cymbal series as well as a wide range of other bonus content and opportunities. Cheers!
Good video. I am 55 and just started drum lessons. Well done.
Thanks and welcome to the world of drumming!
This is SUPER helpful..been searching for this exact content for a LONG time! Thank you!
The bass pedal and even more so the double bass pedal is an enigma,I can never get a great feel,I love a loose tension but my new Pearl’s ,I can’t dial in properly with all the different cams,started with the black then ordered the purple,that felt great but made the sensitivity feel off and made the pedal create more noise,then I tried the white(clear) cam and the noise is almost gone but a better feel but still experimenting with tension,I remember back in the 80’s,I owned this big Sonar pedal ,it had a full rubber foot plate but a nylon cam instead of a double chain and that thing was fantastic for fast single foot playing,I could do triplets with that pedal on one foot,the Pearl ,even though I love it,there is always compromise when using a double pedal because the left pedal will never feel ss sensitive when you are not only dealing with the pedal spring but also the rod that connects it to the maun pedal which creates a slight mushyness and slower feel.
I just bought a new set of DW drums after not playing for a long time. Your videos are so helpful. Much thanks
Peace
The thumbnail on this video attracted me to this video. When I saw the runtime on the video I left because there are other videos half the length of this video
We hope you are able to find the detail and context in a format that allows you to retain the information even if it means it’s not through one of our videos. Patience goes a long way to learning this stuff and knowing how/when to put it into action.
You are doing the lord's work my friend.
Oh man this was so helpful. Always struggled with figuring out how to adjust my pedal. Loved this. Thanks.
Very informative! Good job! By the way: I like the warm, golden-like lighting on your videos! Nice detail - much appreciated!
Most useful thing I've found on the internet about pedal setup. Seriously. Thank you. P.S. It's "heel" not "heal".
Thanks. And yes, we know...😉
I think that one of the most important pieces of our equipment is the Bass Pedal, and it's often overlooked and for sure, misunderstood. Most adjustments are as personal as playing Brushes, and the more we "explore," the more we learn. About the only thing I might add as a possible benefit for many players is to take a look into the Dixson Bass Drum Lift, I can assure you that many players will be pleasantly surprised as I was, and now I have two, and use them on my 18" and 20" Bass drums, although they are used up to 24" Bass drums. The price is right, and the sound will be enhanced, and you gain additional options for your pedal adjustment and protect your Bass drum hoop, and that's always a good thing! Without naming pedals, I've owned and or tried about ten different pedal manufacturers wares, and they are all good if you learn the pedal, but for me, there is one standout, and I prefer the chain drive, and it offers five different cam shifts that can be changed from song to song, and for my "older" feet, I can truly feel the difference and it's all about pedal control. Another excellent video Gents, stay the course!
Excellent point with regards to the potential add on of a bass drum lift. I (Ben) use the Dixson lift regardless of whether I’m using my 22” but especially if I’m using anything smaller. We’ll be getting into more of that when we talk bass drum tuning and address beater contact location and angle. Cheers!
Another great video. Love the explanation of how settings affect practical aspects of playing, in fact, one of the great things about all these videos is they all link to practical, every day playing.
Another great video filled with useful info. You guys answered a lot of the questions I had about which way was better to have my pedal set for the specific way that I’m playing . Thx as always . Keep them coming !!!!
Great video again! Thanks everybody for all your hard work making the series. It takes a village and thank every one of you again. I agree totally, price matters zip. My main pedal is believe it or not a 12 year old Vex Touring Pro. I bought it to use on my home kit while my main pedal stayed at the practise space. It was a mid range name brand from one of the big 3 and expensive for me ($249). After fussing with it and the springs breaking twice and everything else, I realized I had been stomping the crap outta those Vex pedals for years and they never have let me down in any way and feel great under foot. Straight outta the box, on the floor, and played them over 10 years straight, only oiling and cleaning them per usual kit on cleaning days. I bought another set and now its my main pedal, is absolutely bulletproof and I swear as good or better than anyone elsesand cost 99 bucks free delivery! Don't believe the hype, believe your feet. Price and big names and celebrity endorsers dont mean a thing. Great video man and Im sorry for coming off like a salesman but ive wasted too much money learning the hard way. Just my two cents.
Thanks so much for the kind words! We couldn't agree more- there are lots of factors to weigh and some will be more important than others but we strongly encourage taking a practical look at the gear and your playing to assess what makes the most sense. Cheers!
Thank you for this video. I just started drumming and couldn’t tell why my pedals were too low it was hard to hit hard. I didn’t know you can actually move the angle. I was just messing with the tension spring. Dumb I know.
I just decided to rediscover my Speed King after putting it away in favor of a Yamaha 720 that I bought in 1984! What fun. So different, but cool. Like driving g a vintage car. But it does have a camming action that I am liking. Some newer pedals are just too adjustable and too heavy. The squeak king folds up and weighs little. I am back to also using Ludwig flat base stands because I hate the schlep! You'll get there too kids. Dad.
I went to a jam event last night just to check it out but actually became the drummer for a big part of it; It was a lot of fun, especially since I hadn't played in quite some time, but man was my right leg getting sore because of that house kit's kick pedal set-up, with the beater close to the drum head and the spring tension being rather low! How I wished I'd brought a drum key! 😆
An aside - I use one of those dw pancake kick drums, but was having a problem with the top of the drum moving when playing, which would give it a mushy feel. I found a Gibraltar SC-RP171 clamp, which is made to hold a hi hat stand off of your left kick (in a two-kick setup). It works GREAT to keep the drum planted. I attach one side to the drum and the other side to the cymbal stand I have in front. $30 (Amazon) solved my problem!
My very first pedal was a Ludwig Speed Master (not Speed King) it was a pinned strap drive all angles were fixed no adjustments!
Only the spring tension was adjustable. It had a long single piece foot board and the hinge was located underneath the foot board in about the same position that a split foot board hinge would be.
That was a great pedal!
DW is considering offering a single piece footboard as a replacement if they get enough requests for it...
This is an awesome video. I am prob on the looser side. I get the jimmy legs sometimes and that helps me not hit the head too often. I feel it more. I'm no pro, but I seriously appreciate what you just told me for 20 friggin minutes :)
Started playing drums at 15 and stopped playing at 23. I'm 49 now and getting back into drumming. People and other musicians 5hought i was a greaT player. I knew i couldnt do bonham bassdrum triplets...I promised myself i will overcome it. Anyway, i adjusted my pedal and practiced for a week....now i can do fast doubles....if I could turn back the hands of time....and now can play half time shuffles like the song Rosanna...in less than 2 weeks, ive overcome half a lifetime of doubt and frustration. Adjusting my pedal and buying a practice pad did the trick....and I stopped listening to and playing easy hair metal music...lol
Sometimes you just need to take a break.
I stopped playing in 2004. Then just started up again recently, it only took like a month to get better than I was before. Amazing how much sticks with you, but then again I was constantly air drumming and playing beats in my head.
On another specific to this video; I use a Tama Classic series pedal (HP50) that I saw Peter Erskine push a few years ago. It’s got a built in riser which is great for back lined bass drums of different sizes and other limiting factors as well as the spring tension being vertical like the old Rogers Swivomaric pedal which is great on your back! Only down side is that it’s a single drive pedal I wish it’d have either a strap drive or a double drive. Who knows maybe I can change it out for a strap one of these days
I believe I tried this adjustment where its more flat and didnt like it. I may try again and see if it makes much of a difference. Thanks for the unique and informative videos.😁
The other day I had my step meter on in my pocket during a 3 hour drum session. Turns out you easily surpass 10000 (!) kicks in that amount of time. Goes to show the importance of learning the stuff in this vid
Very good informative video. It's almost like i'm hearing myself talking to other drummers that I meet and jam with. I to personally like a lower tension, and I.M.O you get to control the pedal and not the other way around. This topic is a must because many drummers that I've met do not know why or how to get a proper pedal setup. The fact that Colin Bailey basically agrees to what you started off with in the video, just about says it all. I've met drummers and played on their drum sets, that the tension was so tight I had to get off the set because I thought I was going to tear my calf and break my ankles. :). When you play a pedal you should not have to go into a prize fight, it should be where the pedal is extension of your leg and ankle. BTW I've used just about every pedal there is and I have found that certain pedals are MUCH better than others, but no matter what pedal you're using, you must adjust it properly and it must be an extension of you, and most of all, you must not fight the pedal.
This is the smartest thing I’ve ever seen or heard
You’re gonna love the rest of the series!
thanks ,just got back into it after 30 years off and great to have this help
Wellcome back! BTW- we've got LOTS of additional videos on setup and tuning (if you haven't already watched a few). New tutorial episodes every Tuesday!
Haha i was trying to explain bass drum pedal tension to a friend on fbook messenger today. Sent him this video. Thanks
Recently i got fed up with my spastic wandering right foot, which led me to switch my whole set up to playing everything shifted to the right. Left leg bass pedal right leg hi hat. Makes my brain hurt after an hour and my left leg is weak af. After seeing this I want my normal set up back. 😂
Very helpful video. I grew up playing a Speed King and there is something about those twin compression springs that work extremely well for me, but for a number of reasons I used a modern pedal. I wish I could find one that felt like, and was as easy to play as the SK. I've tried the Yamaha Direct Drive, the Iron Cobra, various DWs. The Eliminator is working for me, but doesn't feel like an SK.
I’ve been playing Ludwig Speed King pedals forever, and recently decided it was time to try something more up-to-date. While the SK is an amazing pedal, it is decidedly low-tech by today’s standards in terms of clamp mechanism / beater attachment. Many times that simple wing nut holding the beater shaft has loosened up and the whole beater rod slid right down during a gig. Anyway, it took a lot of effort trying to duplicate the precise tension / angle / stroke length of the SK but I’ve come close with a Yamaha direct drive pedal. The big difference is the compression spring in the Ludwig have a very different action.
Thank you so much for the video. It's very helpful. I have a question that I hope you can help me with. I play heel up and I bury my beater. When my spring is tight, my pedal sometimes makes unwanted hits when I bury the beater. I hope you know what I mean. I hit the bass drum, and then because the tension is high, the pedal has an extra unwanted hit. How do I avoid that?
Thanks. This video was very helpful.
Thx a lot for your work. On my 18 inch bassdrum i have a Big pb. My beat is top high… and if i use a lifter, the strike angle is more than 90 degrees which is horrible to play. Any advise ? Thx !
There are a lot of pedals where you can adjust the foot board angle separate from the beeter angle as well. From the video it’s hard to tell but you may be able to adjust yours as well by loosening the strap drive where it attaches to the cam and moving it forward or back a little
You’re right, many have that option - these Yamahas don’t at all but I’ve become accustomed to them and don’t worry about it. When I had my first Tama Iron Cobra back in the day I went crazy adjusting all that stuff and ended up with the factory settings in the end 😂 -Cody
I have been playing Direct Drive pedals since 2006. I have used TRICK and Axis double pedals, and now am currently using Pearl Elimantors which I find to be the best out of the 3.
I JUST bought this PDP double pedal from a guy in my town for cheap simply out of curiosity on how these cheaper direcr drive pedals are. I havent played it much yet BUT i can see where the flaws are already so for shits N giggles i am going to see if I can enhance the pedal with some simple tweeking. We will see how it turns out.
Thank you so much. This content is gold. How useful was your explanation.
Great video. In your typed comments in the video the first 2 settings say 'good for less muffled drum'. I play quite muffled, and mostly heel up. What would be a good setting for this scenario in your opinion?
Another question would be the difference of feel and sound when the beater strikes either in the middle of the batter head or in the upper third area as i think is the case in thos video. There the skin rebound is logically more i intense because the head tension increases toward the edge of the drumhead.
Guitarists say drummers are dummies and no brains, its channels lie this that prove the drummer is the thinking mans musicians, so many variables on top of limb independence not to mention the gear variations handsets ups...thank you for all you videos and advice, much love for you guys.
I think there is a mistake both configurations advise heel down. I thought second cofiguration is for heel up? Its hard to bury the beater wth heel down although possible. Am i missing something?
Man you just answered what i was looking for as a brand new drummer to fix my problem. IT WAS THE GOD DAMN SPRING TENSION ! ... Thank you so much !
Great run down! Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this topic!
Only video that actually helped me. Been trying to change my pedal around it just didn’t feel right at all.
Glad to hear that this helped!
I know this isn’t about snares but wanted ask if you can do a video on why the strainer wires loosen after hitting sometimes not many strokes. I have an expensive snare and after 10 hits or more it’s as if someone loosened the tension screw while playing. I’m constantly stopping flipping lever down then back up then it’s good. Over and over why is this?
Couldn’t find the DW rocker so I gave a try to something similar found on Amazon 10 unids U624ZZ Mini U Groove Ball Bearing 4 * 13 * 7mm … it works wonders !!!
I play a drum with a full reso head. I tend to back the spring tension off a bit. The liveliness of the 2 heads interacting tends to give the beater more rebound naturally. That said when i play on a kit with a ported head I will increase the spring tension.
After looking @ some pedals I realized there is 1 thing you did not address that I’m still befuddled by, spring angle. Some pedals allow you to move the spring fore or aft rather than just straight down. Or the pivot point where the spring hangs from the cam can also have multiple angle options. This sort of seems like maybe too many minute & potentially unnecessary options or am I missing something?
the mass and texture of the beater has a huge influence on the sound, in addition to how hard you hit the drum, which also has a huge influence on the sound. In addition, how you set up the beater relative to the drum shell is enormously important, and changing the beater is a huge area of investigation which alters both pedal feel and sound.
It’s funny to me cause as a recording engineer, I have found that the feel of the bass drum changes a lot with different beaters but the sound changes mininally to none, usually with some high frequency loss the softer the beater. Other than that I have A/B’d a huge variety of different beaters on recordings and I find that they don’t influence the sound as much as the feel of playing the bass drum.
@@TheRealCowlick if you can't hear the difference between a hard beater and a mop, you are doing something wrong. A hard beater vs a very hard beater on a knackered drum head? Not much of a difference, and loads of people are missing that 16kHz top end in their ears.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 I should’ve emphasised more on my statement that there is high frequency loss (naturally from transitioning from harder beaters to softer ones). Surface area and material density also play a role of course in slight change of pitch/tone.
That is about the only change you’re gonna get from a spot mic though, let alone from a natural/room mic. The knock, body and character of the kick sound will be much more significantly altered by choice of drum head and muffling than by choice of beater. That’s all I’m trying to say.
@@TheRealCowlick how's about the pedal? Or the player? I find it is mainly a question of aligning the tuning of the room to the tuning of the drum.
Let me tell you the oddest thing I have learned playing drums - the sticks make a bigger different to the sound than you think. Clack them together. Loud? Well, how about suspending the stick from a fishing line, so it can resonate freely? How you hold the stick makes a lot of difference, if you aren't "open" you are choking the resonance, and how much "choke" or "muting" to use is where the control comes from. Deadness is flatness, and you can't tell anything if it is a dead kit in a dead room. If you play with one head on the drum and a cushion pushed up against the skin, you won't find much articulation as a player, or gain much by changing to a hard beater.
@@TheRealCowlick Put both heads on the kick drum with no stupid hole in the resonant head, and take the stuffing out. Now you can learn to play the kick drum. Changes your playing to "go to jazz school", but it's worth it.
Sound engineers who do this to somebody who can't play with an "open" kick with both heads on, it's unfair. They will not know what the hell is happening, and it'll sound awful. You can get a lot more out of the kick drum than you think, but it takes a lot of skill.
Thanks, your content is top notch! question im playing on a freinds 1960 ludwig (ringo) set
he has a dw5000 that when i try to attach, the beater hits way ahead of center?
I have this exact pancake bass drum. I’m not a drummer. What’s the best way to hook up the pedal without causing damage to the wood? Thx
With beater length, it makes a difference where on the drumhead you strike. So if you're on an 18 vs a 22, you'll either be striking in a different location or you'll have to adjust your beater length.
Or use the Dixson Bass Drum Lift to avoid altering your pedal. That was an essential addition for me when I owned an 18”. I couldn’t handle the beater any lower as it was already at the 4” shaft length below the beater head. Some guys can adapt ‘on the fly’ but I couldn’t so the Dixson riser saved me the grief.
Wow. Wish this video was around 25 years ago!
hey quick question, why is my pedal board so stiff even though my spring tension is loose? It's hard to press down on even with my hand.
It could be bad ball bearings in the towers. Sometimes they can get rusty or gunked up.
@@sierragold any tips on how to fix that? the pedal I have is actually used and I'm sure how long it's been played on
@@mmjuuno Yes-- if you can't actually take the pedal apart, then you can use some WD-40 or other rust/lubrication degunker on the inside and outside of both towers at the rotating part at the tops where the ball bearings are. Use the tube in the nozzle to help direct the spray better. Some of that WD-40 will be able to penetrate into the crevices and should help to free it up. Might take repeated tries. I have done this successfully on several different pedals that came with vintage drum sets that I've picked up here and there. Good luck! :)
@@mmjuuno Also forgot to add: if your ball bearings are good, then also check your chain. It can, on occasion, get crooked and not fall into the beater shaft slot properly aligned. This happens if the piece that the beater shaft fits into is jockeyed too much to the left or right. You would have to position it correctly so the chain follows a straight path upon depression and lift-up, then tighten down. Also if the pedal is used, it could be that the previous owner took apart the pedal at the towers and did not put it back together again properly-- in that case you would have to disassemble the pedal and figure out what is going on in there. I hope this helps!
This dude RULES.
I had some issues with my strainer lock on my Black Beauty and this man broke it down so genuinely detail oriented in a good dude kind of way.
Like, I could jam with that dude!!
I also play guitar and bass guitar but
drums are everything to me, I love it so much it actually makes me cry sometimes.
What about shortening the chain? I had to shorten mine for a faster response from the beater to the head.
Thanks Ben - Would like to know what model foot pedal you use in this video - Thnx! John
Very useful video! Never thought about relationship between beater angle and spring tension.
Such an excellent analysis of settings... Here’s an odd newbie question... You mentioned “if it feels right to you” - do you have a link to one of your videos that goes over what that “feel” should feel like? Lol For the longest time, I had the spring tension too high. But since I have no frame of reference as to what it’s supposed feel like - I struggled and thought that was normal. Now I loosened it, and the beater is double tapping.
I just read a comment from a drum teacher on another video saying loose is the way to go for speed. I've never messed with my pedal so I was going to try it out and see.
@@insertmetalusernamehere Thx for the reply! I've been messing with all the settings and think (?) I got it where I want it. I don't have to press the pedal too hard, and once it gets going it feels like a basketball? I'm able to play mid 1/16 tempos (120-160) pretty solidly and able to take it up to 190 1/6ths without issue. Still have that left foot double tap, though. Asked my drum teacher and he's going to show me an exercise to fix it. So I think I have it. X'ing fingers - that double tap sux
I believe you hit on all the details of adjustments and I adjust my pedals pretty much the same way you do. As always great content, keep it up !
Great information,that's why I always take my pedal when they furnish a back line drum set
Best video on pedal set-up I have ever seen. Bravo. Subscribed.
Thanks so much! Hope you enjoy the rest of the series.
Interesting video. The rebound/tension of the bass drum head is also important. There's a guy on facebook advertising his bass drum control courses. He's extremely fast, but recommends to take out the spring altogether and rely only on the rebound. No idea, how he can play that fast with this setup. I also recall a video by Mike Portnoy. He might not be the speed king of all times, but he's still pretty fast. And his beater in resting position was almost horizontal and the spring tension very low. Very complex mechanical system...
Both the high and low tension day are great for heal down low sound. Was that a mistake?
Is there any formula for getting the left foot of a double bass drum peddle feeling the same as the right foot ? I am new to a double bass drum peddle. And i didnt expect the left side to feel so different. Its partially because my left foot isnt used to being a bass drum foot. But i can also feel the extension bar. And the way the beater hits the head seems less solid. DW 5000.
Thank you so much for making this! I like to say I built my roof before I poured my foundation with drums and it's the things like this I skipped over or was never taught in my early year! Thanks!
Loving your channel. Great information that I've needed
Does the meter has to go on the middleof the bassdrum or a little above ??? I see the meter is a lil way above the middle drum ? . ??
HI, I struggled for years to get quick doubles, I had a Dw 4000,then an Iron cobra , it drove me crazy, turns out the cheapest cheapest Mapex pedal (single or double) works for me.
I'm having that same issue. I had a cheap pearl pedal a long time ago that worked so good, I was so fast, it felt natural. It had this really steep angle to it. Then I bought the DW 5000 and it never felt right, no matter the adjustment, but at least I made it work ok and got by. I got back into drums and thought I'd try another expensive model, the pearl eliminators, and I hate those, they are even worse! I can't even play hardly. It seems impossible to get the dozen settings just right. The spring is always too tight just as it hits the head. If I loosen it, it's too loose at the other end. No settings feel good, feels overly smoothed out and response is never correct, like it feels dull or something. I think they over engineer these things and it works against them. But they do it to sell at higher prices. I think tomorrow I'm going to go down and buy some cheap pedals again.
@@VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM @TCK Once you start adjusting lol. The Dw looked basically the same to me as the Mapex (it's a pedal after all) even felt the same,you know the spring tension test ,how many times it keeps going. I don't get it to be honest. I think it's us. My son will play either, the little ...He's a perfectionist but some things he doesn't seem to notice and some how works round problems with out knowing. He has a song called " The problem with perfection" I get a mention...His mates playing drums and another the bass, he does the rest. If you fancy a listen. 2:20 and 4:00 on are my fav bits.
th-cam.com/video/b-LjOb7Pxwc/w-d-xo.html have a good drum time.