ik it doesn’t have much to do with the video topic, but i often find myself reflecting on the Queen Mary. when you factor everything into account, even in most best case scenarios, it’s absolutely astonishing that she still…exists! at the end of the day, i don’t think many people take that into account. and i don’t mean anything negative about the Queen by it (on the contrary, actually), but the fact that she’s still around after everything is somewhat mind-boggling, and i’m extremely thankful that she is. :)
Love this format Alex. Now I know why my friends and I always came out muddy/dirty whenever we would sneak in the old boiler rooms before they were open to tours. We sunk all over the lower parts of the ship, fun times. As always Alex thanks for your time and hard work you put into your videos.......
@@michaelrmurphy2734 We picked door locks and had a "master key" that fit many pad locks. We got kicked off many times per day we were there. We made it to places that smelled like either rotten sea water or rotten grease. One time a friend and I got matching t-shirts and hats with a electrical company's name on them and walked all over, with clip-boards, and nobody stopped us. Fun times.....
When I was a child, my Dad took our family to the Queen Mary for the first time. It had to have about 1972, as it was still a very new attraction. I remember the Jacques Cousteau Musium and how cool it was to a 7 or 8 year old. I think the thing that totally blew me away and gave me a love of giant ships, was the room where you went outside the hull to view tge huge propeller. Anyway, I also remember how bummed my Dad was ( a former Navy Man) that they had ripped put all the boilers. It's too bad they did that. Anyway, thanks for you awesome videos about the grand old Queen. I am taking the family to So Cal in a few weeks yo visit Disneyland and may stop by the Queen Mary for a look on our way to visit the USS Iowa. There you go. You are so great at bringing history to people, you should do a video or two on that grand old girl as well.
I did not know a number of the queens machinery spaces had been gutted. When I visited her decades ago, I went on a tour and travelled through the machinery spaces. I was amazed at the size of her sea water intakes mounted in the sides of the ship and just how far up the sides they were, and the giant wheels on them to be used to open and close them plus the size of the water condensers for the turbines. The capacity of those units is astounding. I had trouble wrapping my mind around the shear size of all that equipment. It was amazing to be standing in the very bottom of the bilges and looking a long way up to the top of the machinery and overhead decking, and that was how far below the waterline I was. The queen is truly a huge ship.
I've wondered about this. I never felt she was severely top heavy, maybe a little bit but not any more so than modern cruise ships. (being a little top heavy with a slightly higher center of gravity is what causes their more prolonged gentle roll verses an almost shaking motion of a shallower roll) Thanks for uploading!
Perfect! Great explanation! Ballasting a ship while underway is a full-time affair, especially when running at high speed as the higher fuel consumption can greatly affect the stability if it is not transferred evenly. Also, I always thought by QM had a list to port, makes a lot of sense to drain rainwater, good to know I wasn’t imaging things!
yeah I was talking with some historians the other day and I mentioned her port list, and I thought it was because of the weight of all the gangways on her port side...but they both corrected me and told me it was for draining rainwater! Made sense!
@@michaelrmurphy2734 yes she was built with a gutter system that drained into the sea, but because she is currently designated as a floating building, she is subjected to building codes requiring she drain into the city sewer system.
@@AlextheHistorian WHAT?!!! Are you serious?! A floating ship somehow has its rainwater going into the city sewer system?! How do they do that? Hoses from the ship flowing into a sewer line onshore? Of course I guess they think of it as a building rather than a ship.
Yes only the port side gutters have been re-routed to a water collection unit in the bow area, a pump then pumps that water onto shore via a hose. The ship is designated as a building in order to allow the ship to retain its original features without having to conform to maritime law.
Alex, I know you have been working VERY hard on creating more content! Thank you for what you are doing. I hope your TH-cam numbers are starting to reflect your hard work!
If they did put them back, they’d have to take the funnels off, ship a massive crane in, manufacture new boilers, ship ‘em off to the QM, put the funnels back on and yeah, an extremely complex and expensive operation. Personally, I think it’s cooler seeing the boiler rooms without the boilers.
I live in Halifax NS, which is the hometown of Sir Samuel Cunard. All four of the Queens have been here at one time or another. I remember the (dodgy) fire that sank the Queen Elizabeth in Hong Kong harbor in the 1970s and I'm sad to think the Queen Elizabeth 2 might never come here again. And I think you are right about the Queen Mary. The designers would have considered weight distribution very carefully when building her. To think of all the heavy machinery taken out. That's not good. Maybe now that COVID is winding down the Queen Mary 2 will be here again this year. I would like to see her again. Cheers!
Queen Mary's draft prior to the conversion had been 38 ft, 9 in. Displacement at 77400 long tons. Afterward that displacement had been reduced by 11400 long tons resulting in the ship having risen 3 feet. The removal of propulsion equipment and boilers not only affected her center of buoyancy affecting stabilization it too initiated a hogging effect of about 8 inches. The hogging is within the parameters of 12 inches. Queen Mary is marginally destabilized though nothing to cause concern.
True, but there was also a major weight reduction above decks when her heavy steel funnels (and their inner tubing) was replaced with hollow aluminum funnels. She does sit higher in the water, but there were also various upper deck areas that were removed, reducing weight. And now her lifeboats are removed, probably close to 50-75 tons of weight being relieved from the upper structure.
Surprisingly I never thought about that. Maybe my common sense just kicked in unconsciously and told me that she must not be top heavy if she's still afloat 88 years later. From what I heard; her bottom was filled with cement. Not sure how true that is, but it is very cool that her ballast systems still work! And that's also quite clever with her port list, which I had never noticed. Water isn't going to go anywhere if you're on a flat surface.
There's no cement weighing her down, only these three materials: drilling mud, steel pellet ballast, and water ballast. The reason is because these items are removable. Cement would pose a problem if the steel hull was corroding and they needed to replace the hull plates or frames...then they couldn't because it'd be locked in a tomb of cement. Or if they constructed a large museum in the boiler rooms, they may need to lighten the ballast to make up for the added weight...but you can't pump out hard cement. As for the rainwater runoff. Old ships like Queen Mary are built with curved decks. There is a longitudinal upwards curve called sheer, and a lattitudinal downwards curve called camber, these curves are for deck strength, but they also channel rainwater to the outer edges of the ship, where they would normally drain into the ocean. Funny enough, in 1969, the Queen Mary was re-designated as a "building". Buildings cannot drain rainwater into the ocean, they must drain into the city sewer for processing. So that's why they tilted the ship, so she doesn't naturally drain her rainwater into the ocean. Pretty weird for a ship!
@@AlextheHistorian Forgot about sheer and camber: that makes sense too. That is pretty weird about her being designated as a building. That was dumb enough especially if she's going to have to go into drydock every now and then, but even more so that they insist the water needs to go into the sewer rather than into the ocean. I question how much sense that makes and how well it works - seriously: what sewer is there that will catch the rainwater before it falls into the sea? - but hey it's California: they do a lot of questionable things these days. As long as it works, oh well.
Well she was designated as a building because if she remained a ship, she would be subjected to extremely strict maritime code enforcement that gets stricter every year. The reason she still has her original wood paneling and her original elevators and other such things, is because buildings don't need to replace those. Wood construction is no longer allowed on passenger ships, so a lot of her originality would have been lost. But just because she's designated as a building doesn't mean she can't be dry docked. In the United States, no sewers are allowed to drain directly into the ocean without first going through a filter screen, thats because trash and debris from the buildings and streets can be carried away by the rain and pollute the ocean. Even on the Queen Mary, dropped soda bottles, dropped coffee cups and other trash and debris, (including chipping ship paint, and other degrading materials) can pollute the ocean. So it goes into the city sewer instead to get sived through a filter screen first.
That may be true, but I don't think she's 81,237 tons anymore. With her boilers, generators and hard of her engines gone, that might have lightened Queen Mary at least by 4000 tons if that. I'm not a engineer, so I'm just guessing.
Question, during the Mary’s conversion and removal of her stacks, I heard that some people believe that her stacks collapsed due to corrosion, is that true? Or did the funnels simply collapse due to her having no external support or links?
It was a combination of both. The funnels were very corroded, but what did them in, was that without the funnel stay ropes to maintain their shape, they crinkled as they were lifted. Funnels aren't really solid, they are just a big open tube with a few smaller tubes bunched together inside. The stay ropes pull them outward and help them keel their shape. Without the ropes they can get easily deformed.
When I was there last, the tour guide said the original funnels were so badly corroded that all that was left was the multiple years of paint holding them together.
Thats an exaggeration by the tour guide. If the funnels were that badly corroded then half the ship would have to be also. Yes they were rusty and a little weak, but all the steel was still there.
Thanks for fascinating video of this beautiful ship .Are you able to give any information on the SS United States which is seems to have many false starts RXR we’re going to do something but I am wondering if this has stalled .
Hi Alex love your channel. I'm curious as to were the Queen would be dry docked in Long Beach. The old Naval base is long gone which is a shame.. I believe she was dry docked there back in the 1960s it was the only Dock that could accommodate her size. The only other place I can think of is dry docking her is at San Diego Naval base. Also would love to know if the Queen has ever had her exterior hull cleaned given she's been the water for so long that's a lot of barnacles to scrap off. As a boat owner its the one job we really hate.
As I said in the video, they have to build a new dry dock. Unfortunately I don't know yet where the dock would be built. Apparently the San Diego Naval base was not even an option for the city in terms of dry docking. (perhaps the Navy no longer lets civilian craft into their dry docks). The only other place that the City of Long Beach was offered for dry docking, was Texas. And there is no way the Queen Mary could be moved there, so the only thing for them to do was look into building a brand new one of their own.
@@AlextheHistorian Thanks Alex its a shame that the San Diego Naval base cant help. The Queen gave 6 years of service transporting troops from across the world safely . I know BAE Systems has a large floating dock which could be brought to her in Long Beach but still the dock may be to small for her weight. So look forward to more of your videos.
HI CPT. ALEX ,, WHAT A GREAT VIDEO!!!! YOU EXPLAINED EVERY THING I WANTED TO KNOW ON THIS MATTER ,,, I HAD AN IDEA HOW IT WORKED AND YOU TALKED ABOUT IT LAST NIGHT ON TEA TIME ALSO,GREAT SHOW !!! I AM THE ONE THAT WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT BALLIST AND ASKED YOU A WEEK AGO AND SAID THE MOVIE , WE NEED MORE BALLIST WE ARE TOP HEAVY AND THAT ALMOST TOOK US DOWN .. GREAT MOVIE AND FOR THE STARS TO.. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ALEX THERE ARE BOILERS UP TOP OF THE Q.M. OUTSIDE AND THEY HAVE TO BE REPLACED THEY HAVE NOT BEEN USED FOR A WHILE WITH EVERY THING DOWN BELOW TAKEN OUT DO YOU THINK SOME LEAKING PROUBLES HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO BOILERS ON THE QUEEN UP TOP IN HER OCEAN LINER DAYS.. THANKS,, VETERAN..
Oh yeah, the shore-side boilers for the hotel have had leaking pipes for years, they are part of the reason why the tank tops have had pooling water on them. All that plumbing needed to be replaced along with the hotel boilers.
Sadly its because at the time, nobody thought a retired ocean liner would make for a popular museum. In the 1970s ocean liners like the Queen Mary were treated like tired old greyhound busses...once it's not useful anymore, they go to the scrap yard, and most people don't shed a tear. So carving up the Queen Mary to build a museum inside seemed like a genius idea. It would only be realized in hindsight that ocean liners make for more interesting museums, than the exhibits they hold inside of them. I hope this reply gets to you, this is my 4th or 5th reply to one of your comments and I'm not sure you see them.
1) I remember the Jaques Costeau exhibit in the QM (1972). The one thing that stuck with me is that by the year 2000 humans could have gills surgically implanted so that humans could live like fish. I'm glad that never happened. 2) The ballast thing concerns me if the SS United States is moved it could capsize because the last owner gutted the ship.
@@michaelrmurphy2734 No, I don't think she ever visited NS. Although she was a great ship, she was launched at the same time that jets were making trans-Atlantic travel by ship obsolete, so, the owners kept her on a NY to London run. 2) It is my fondest wish to have enough money land in my lap so the great ship could be restored. First on the list is to get her dry docked to check, repair and paint the waterline and below so that she can make a much bigger move. The conservancy probably thinks that the great ship is viable in Philadelphia as a tourist attraction and hotel, I vehemently disagree. I'd like to see her moved to a city with a pro business climate where she would be the gem attraction amongst lesser attractions.
@@The_Dudester As far as I'm aware, while they are considering Philly, it is most certainly not at the top of their list for a potential home for her. Big stupid mistake if they do that. 😂😂
Great good job 👍!! I was just wondering could you do a video of how big and deep is the structure underneath and around the Queen Mary ship if she sank?? How far down would she go and what it look like?? In other words with the ship sink flat on the bottom with half the ship out of the water or would she be our her side?? Also if the submarine sank next to the Queen Mary would she sink down or straight to the queen Mary on the way Underneath waterline depending on how the Area below the water is designed?? This is just hypothetical And it would be interesting to lease skin idea what could happen in an extreme worst scenario??
Unfortunately, I don't think that video would work out too well. I don't know what it looks like down there. All I know is that there is an average of 12 feet of water between her keel and the harbor bed. I don't want to make videos that explain how she would sink, on my channel I'm trying to put an end to the lie that the Queen Mary is going to capsize, thanks to what the media is publishing constantly. So talking about how she would capsize in that scenario...would only fuel people's belief that she will...even though I've made tons of videos saying that she won't. But as for your questions, all I can tell you is, in order to fit her in the harbor, they carved out a trench of deep water that is approximately 50 feet deep from the harbor bed to the surface. She is moored to the dock with spring-loaded cables, and in case those fail, she has an extra set of safety ropes. If she were to take on water in a major flooding scenario (which again is so unlikely that it might as well be deemed impossible), then she would most likely take on a starboard list. The mooring cables would hold her close to the dock, but as she settled, the cables would allow her to lower down into the water, if she went down low enough, she might snap her cables, relying on the safety ropes to keep her from moving too far. Eventually the starboard side of her keel would contact the bed of the harbor, but I'm uncertain if she would settle flat, because it's possible that the sloping angle on the pier-side might extend down underwater, making the ground beneath the ship half flat, half angled. But I don't know for certain.
Ya I understand your response and I’m okay with that. As far as the submarine being in such severe state of decay do you think there’s a chance it might sink to the bottom before they can get it out and if it did sink due to its corrosive manner do you think it would just go down and not hit the bow of the queen Mary in anyway or do you think it would?? Also if the submarine did Sink completely To the bottom and would not able to raise it up would they just be able to just deconnect terminate the water and just leave the submarine at the bottom and let it rust naturally?? Also too why hasn’t anybody thought about decontaminating submarine next to the Queen Mary and letting it sink completely to the bottom so that it makes an artificial reef and diving area for divers who are Learning the dive next to the queen Mary?? Also the city could just clean out the submarine and just let it sink in decay along with Memorial on the surface which is unfortunate way to go but then again everything does have an end. I just hope somebody come forward and resurrect the submarine in someway before it’s ultimate demise.
Yes, first they removed the funnels while workers were down below cutting up the machinery, then everything was hoisted out through the funnel shaft. Then each level of the shaft was decked-over to add square footage to the ship, and new funnels were placed on top of the ship.
Yes, the dry dock would be within 3 miles from the ship, still inside the Long Beach harbor, protected by the Long Beach breakwater system, so there shouldn't be too much stress on the hull during transport. The only concerns come if she were to have to leave the protective harbor breakwater.
@@AlextheHistorian I think we only have three historic ocean liners left? Two of which I have visited SS Rotterdam(boarded) and the SS United States(visual twice 2013/2020). Let's hope I get to see the old lady with my own eyes. Great work my friend Jay 44 Ireland 🇮🇪.
@@metheult We have the Rotterdam, Queen Mary, United States, I've heard speculation that the NS Savannah is due to become a floating hotel in Savannah, GA in 2030 when she is fully deactivated. You can theoretically count the QE2 in Dubai and the MS Bore
Would it be possible to build some sort of dry dock around her where the current breakwater is. So repairs can be made and maintenance can be done and just fill it so she floats when they finish the repairs? I think it would make future repairs on her much easier.
It's possible, but a lot more expensive. They want to build a separate dry dock, because at least when they do, they can make tons of money from it by using it to repair other ships.
That was fascinating .. i learned a lot for sure! Am i right in understanding that QM has only a few feet of water under her in that basin? Not likely she'd capsize there regardless, I'm thinking? Definitely subscribing!
Thanks! Yes on average she has about 12 feet of water under her keel, depending on the tide. But her hull has a draft of about 34 feet (currently), so average depth of her lagoon is about 46 feet, which is actually deeper than the harbor between her and downtown!
She had her last dry docking in 1969, that's also when they last added her anti-corrosion paint, and they installed her SACP system. (Scrificial Anode Cathodic Peotection). While her hull is covered in algae and barnacles, the sacrificial zinc plates have protected her from saltwater corrosion all this time. But she is in need of dry docking to clean, inspect, and repaint her hull.
If she capsized at sea, it wouldn't be because she is top heavy...because she isnt. It would be because the twisting motion of the ship at sea ripped some rivets out of her plates.
All your videos are so interesting and informative I love watching them, but I have a suggestion that you put a trigger warning for submechanophobia/ thalassophobia when showing parts of the engine room or underwater. It can really cause anxiety for some of us when watching this awesome content.
I think the best examples of top heavy ships are those big battleships…. Cuz when they take in water from one side they capsize as those turret barrettes weigh a freaking lot And once those turrets fall off when ship is upside down in the water whilst sinking….then it becomes equalised in weight again perhaps but it’s already underwater so who knows My thoughts from sinking of the bismarck….not a ship expert but this is my thought. correct me if I’m wrong
So by this logic, does this mean that the Queen Mary could easily be towed safely? She still has her stabilizers and only about 4000 tons of equipment has been removed, which yes is a lot but compared to her regular tonnage that's quite small
I dont know where you heard that, her stabilizers were removed in 1969 and patched over. But yes she should be fine to tow a short distance, maximum 5 miles. She cannot leave the safety of the long Beach breakwater.
I was watching Cunard horns and one the Queen Mary Had 3 horns 2 on one stack that worked on boilers Those don't work or were removed one or 2 we're refurbished and put on either the QE2 or QM2 it's a short video and you can hear QM horn at noon every day
Yes I made that video lol. Queen Mary had 3 horns, 2 on the forward funnel, and one on the middle funnel. The horn from the middle funnel was shipped on the QE2 to France to be placed on the Queen Mary 2. Meanwhile the original Queen Mary still has 2 of her horns, only one is used.
I'd like for there to be an interactive thing, where you can pretend to fuel the ship! Kinda like Titanic museums, and yeah, make a replica boiler room, please
I know the people who dreamed up that project. The Yarrow Project...and I'm working with them to bring everyone some special surprises on my channel. The Yarrow Project is making a come-back.
@@AlextheHistorian I cant wait I would love to see yarrow project back I remember seeing the videos and tarps that would hang in the boilers inside the Queen Mary
I know you talk about the queen marry quite often but could you get any information on the United States? She was my second liner I fell in love with and would really enjoy anything you could gather that maybe I might not know.
Some people would tell you that the Queen Mary isn't haunted. But I'll tell you why people used to board the ship in huge crowds...because she's an amazing, beautiful ship with a lot more history than ghosts.
I wish people didn't ask that, instead I'd like to hear people ask about her fascinating history and her unparalleled design and architecture. IF she is haunted, its not with angry spirits. It's with the spirits of people who loved and adored their time aboard the ship. If she's haunted, she's filled with happy spirits. That being said, I've never seen a ghost on the ship.
ik it doesn’t have much to do with the video topic, but i often find myself reflecting on the Queen Mary.
when you factor everything into account, even in most best case scenarios, it’s absolutely astonishing that she still…exists!
at the end of the day, i don’t think many people take that into account. and i don’t mean anything negative about the Queen by it (on the contrary, actually), but the fact that she’s still around after everything is somewhat mind-boggling, and i’m extremely thankful that she is. :)
Thanks! You gave me a video idea.
Love this format Alex. Now I know why my friends and I always came out muddy/dirty whenever we would sneak in the old boiler rooms before they were open to tours. We sunk all over the lower parts of the ship, fun times. As always Alex thanks for your time and hard work you put into your videos.......
How did you get in?!
@@michaelrmurphy2734 We picked door locks and had a "master key" that fit many pad locks. We got kicked off many times per day we were there. We made it to places that smelled like either rotten sea water or rotten grease. One time a friend and I got matching t-shirts and hats with a electrical company's name on them and walked all over, with clip-boards, and nobody stopped us. Fun times.....
When I was a child, my Dad took our family to the Queen Mary for the first time. It had to have about 1972, as it was still a very new attraction. I remember the Jacques Cousteau Musium and how cool it was to a 7 or 8 year old. I think the thing that totally blew me away and gave me a love of giant ships, was the room where you went outside the hull to view tge huge propeller.
Anyway, I also remember how bummed my Dad was ( a former Navy Man) that they had ripped put all the boilers.
It's too bad they did that.
Anyway, thanks for you awesome videos about the grand old Queen.
I am taking the family to So Cal in a few weeks yo visit Disneyland and may stop by the Queen Mary for a look on our way to visit the USS Iowa.
There you go. You are so great at bringing history to people, you should do a video or two on that grand old girl as well.
Was there years ago and loved the remaining engine room tour and you can go outside and see her remaining propeller.
I did not know a number of the queens machinery spaces had been gutted. When I visited her decades ago, I went on a tour and travelled through the machinery spaces. I was amazed at the size of her sea water intakes mounted in the sides of the ship and just how far up the sides they were, and the giant wheels on them to be used to open and close them plus the size of the water condensers for the turbines. The capacity of those units is astounding. I had trouble wrapping my mind around the shear size of all that equipment. It was amazing to be standing in the very bottom of the bilges and looking a long way up to the top of the machinery and overhead decking, and that was how far below the waterline I was. The queen is truly a huge ship.
I was there the Opening Day of the Cousteau Exhibit! Amazing and beyond crowded!
I've wondered about this. I never felt she was severely top heavy, maybe a little bit but not any more so than modern cruise ships. (being a little top heavy with a slightly higher center of gravity is what causes their more prolonged gentle roll verses an almost shaking motion of a shallower roll) Thanks for uploading!
Perfect! Great explanation! Ballasting a ship while underway is a full-time affair, especially when running at high speed as the higher fuel consumption can greatly affect the stability if it is not transferred evenly. Also, I always thought by QM had a list to port, makes a lot of sense to drain rainwater, good to know I wasn’t imaging things!
yeah I was talking with some historians the other day and I mentioned her port list, and I thought it was because of the weight of all the gangways on her port side...but they both corrected me and told me it was for draining rainwater! Made sense!
@@AlextheHistorian A ship that large would have a lot of rainwater on her.
If moving at sea it would simply flow out with the movement of the ship.
@@michaelrmurphy2734 yes she was built with a gutter system that drained into the sea, but because she is currently designated as a floating building, she is subjected to building codes requiring she drain into the city sewer system.
@@AlextheHistorian WHAT?!!! Are you serious?! A floating ship somehow has its rainwater going into the city sewer system?!
How do they do that? Hoses from the ship flowing into a sewer line onshore?
Of course I guess they think of it as a building rather than a ship.
Yes only the port side gutters have been re-routed to a water collection unit in the bow area, a pump then pumps that water onto shore via a hose.
The ship is designated as a building in order to allow the ship to retain its original features without having to conform to maritime law.
Thanks for being reminded us about the Queen Mary being top heavy thanks for made me feel better
Excellent presentation. Thank you, Alex.
Alex, I know you have been working VERY hard on creating more content! Thank you for what you are doing. I hope your TH-cam numbers are starting to reflect your hard work!
Thank you!
Absolutely brilliant and accurate presentation!
Should never have removed her boilers and engines, that alone would’ve been one hell of an exhibit.
They should put them back
Can they put them back?
If they did put them back, they’d have to take the funnels off, ship a massive crane in, manufacture new boilers, ship ‘em off to the QM, put the funnels back on and yeah, an extremely complex and expensive operation. Personally, I think it’s cooler seeing the boiler rooms without the boilers.
I live in Halifax NS, which is the hometown of Sir Samuel Cunard. All four of the Queens have been here at one time or another. I remember the (dodgy) fire that sank the Queen Elizabeth in Hong Kong harbor in the 1970s and I'm sad to think the Queen Elizabeth 2 might never come here again. And I think you are right about the Queen Mary. The designers would have considered weight distribution very carefully when building her. To think of all the heavy machinery taken out. That's not good. Maybe now that COVID is winding down the Queen Mary 2 will be here again this year. I would like to see her again. Cheers!
Queen Mary's draft prior to the conversion had been 38 ft, 9 in. Displacement at 77400 long tons. Afterward that displacement had been reduced by 11400 long tons resulting in the ship having risen 3 feet. The removal of propulsion equipment and boilers not only affected her center of buoyancy affecting stabilization it too initiated a hogging effect of about 8 inches. The hogging is within the parameters of 12 inches. Queen Mary is marginally destabilized though nothing to cause concern.
True, but there was also a major weight reduction above decks when her heavy steel funnels (and their inner tubing) was replaced with hollow aluminum funnels. She does sit higher in the water, but there were also various upper deck areas that were removed, reducing weight. And now her lifeboats are removed, probably close to 50-75 tons of weight being relieved from the upper structure.
@@AlextheHistorian The lifeboats are going to be a pretty significant factor indeed.
Excellent, Alex! I learn so much from your videos. Thanks for posting!
My pleasure!
Alex, you have a very nice voice. Quite soothing 🙂
Thank you!
Surprisingly I never thought about that. Maybe my common sense just kicked in unconsciously and told me that she must not be top heavy if she's still afloat 88 years later. From what I heard; her bottom was filled with cement. Not sure how true that is, but it is very cool that her ballast systems still work! And that's also quite clever with her port list, which I had never noticed. Water isn't going to go anywhere if you're on a flat surface.
There's no cement weighing her down, only these three materials: drilling mud, steel pellet ballast, and water ballast. The reason is because these items are removable. Cement would pose a problem if the steel hull was corroding and they needed to replace the hull plates or frames...then they couldn't because it'd be locked in a tomb of cement. Or if they constructed a large museum in the boiler rooms, they may need to lighten the ballast to make up for the added weight...but you can't pump out hard cement.
As for the rainwater runoff. Old ships like Queen Mary are built with curved decks. There is a longitudinal upwards curve called sheer, and a lattitudinal downwards curve called camber, these curves are for deck strength, but they also channel rainwater to the outer edges of the ship, where they would normally drain into the ocean. Funny enough, in 1969, the Queen Mary was re-designated as a "building". Buildings cannot drain rainwater into the ocean, they must drain into the city sewer for processing. So that's why they tilted the ship, so she doesn't naturally drain her rainwater into the ocean. Pretty weird for a ship!
@@AlextheHistorian Forgot about sheer and camber: that makes sense too. That is pretty weird about her being designated as a building. That was dumb enough especially if she's going to have to go into drydock every now and then, but even more so that they insist the water needs to go into the sewer rather than into the ocean. I question how much sense that makes and how well it works - seriously: what sewer is there that will catch the rainwater before it falls into the sea? - but hey it's California: they do a lot of questionable things these days. As long as it works, oh well.
Well she was designated as a building because if she remained a ship, she would be subjected to extremely strict maritime code enforcement that gets stricter every year. The reason she still has her original wood paneling and her original elevators and other such things, is because buildings don't need to replace those. Wood construction is no longer allowed on passenger ships, so a lot of her originality would have been lost. But just because she's designated as a building doesn't mean she can't be dry docked.
In the United States, no sewers are allowed to drain directly into the ocean without first going through a filter screen, thats because trash and debris from the buildings and streets can be carried away by the rain and pollute the ocean. Even on the Queen Mary, dropped soda bottles, dropped coffee cups and other trash and debris, (including chipping ship paint, and other degrading materials) can pollute the ocean. So it goes into the city sewer instead to get sived through a filter screen first.
Alex, this is very educational. I have actually wonder what she weighs now that her boilers and engines and generators gone. Thank you.
I don't know either, but the gross tonnage is NOT reduced as that is a measure of volume and not weight.
That may be true, but I don't think she's 81,237 tons anymore. With her boilers, generators and hard of her engines gone, that might have lightened Queen Mary at least by 4000 tons if that. I'm not a engineer, so I'm just guessing.
Good video.
Good stuff Alex
Thanks Randy!
While i've never thought about the ship being destabilized, it is kind of sad to think about all that historic equipment being removed.
People WANT to see the engine spaces on the QE2!
Question, during the Mary’s conversion and removal of her stacks, I heard that some people believe that her stacks collapsed due to corrosion, is that true? Or did the funnels simply collapse due to her having no external support or links?
It was a combination of both. The funnels were very corroded, but what did them in, was that without the funnel stay ropes to maintain their shape, they crinkled as they were lifted. Funnels aren't really solid, they are just a big open tube with a few smaller tubes bunched together inside. The stay ropes pull them outward and help them keel their shape. Without the ropes they can get easily deformed.
@@AlextheHistorian thanks for the info 👍
Also pretty good video btw.
Thanks!
When I was there last, the tour guide said the original funnels were so badly corroded that all that was left was the multiple years of paint holding them together.
Thats an exaggeration by the tour guide. If the funnels were that badly corroded then half the ship would have to be also. Yes they were rusty and a little weak, but all the steel was still there.
Thanks for fascinating video of this beautiful ship .Are you able to give any information on the SS United States which is seems to have many false starts RXR we’re going to do something but I am wondering if this has stalled .
I dont have the kinds of networking and connections with SSUS, like I do with Queen Mary.
Hi Alex love your channel. I'm curious as to were the Queen would be dry docked in Long Beach. The old Naval base is long gone which is a shame.. I believe she was dry docked there back in the 1960s it was the only Dock that could accommodate her size. The only other place I can think of is dry docking her is at San Diego Naval base. Also would love to know if the Queen has ever had her exterior hull cleaned given she's been the water for so long that's a lot of barnacles to scrap off. As a boat owner its the one job we really hate.
As I said in the video, they have to build a new dry dock. Unfortunately I don't know yet where the dock would be built. Apparently the San Diego Naval base was not even an option for the city in terms of dry docking. (perhaps the Navy no longer lets civilian craft into their dry docks). The only other place that the City of Long Beach was offered for dry docking, was Texas. And there is no way the Queen Mary could be moved there, so the only thing for them to do was look into building a brand new one of their own.
@@AlextheHistorian Thanks Alex its a shame that the San Diego Naval base cant help. The Queen gave 6 years of service transporting troops from across the world safely . I know BAE Systems has a large floating dock which could be brought to her in Long Beach but still the dock may be to small for her weight. So look forward to more of your videos.
HI CPT. ALEX ,, WHAT A GREAT VIDEO!!!! YOU EXPLAINED EVERY THING I WANTED TO KNOW ON THIS MATTER ,,, I HAD AN IDEA HOW IT WORKED AND YOU TALKED ABOUT IT LAST NIGHT ON TEA TIME ALSO,GREAT SHOW !!! I AM THE ONE THAT WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT BALLIST AND ASKED YOU A WEEK AGO AND SAID THE MOVIE , WE NEED MORE BALLIST WE ARE TOP HEAVY AND THAT ALMOST TOOK US DOWN .. GREAT MOVIE AND FOR THE STARS TO.. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ALEX THERE ARE BOILERS UP TOP OF THE Q.M. OUTSIDE AND THEY HAVE TO BE REPLACED THEY HAVE NOT BEEN USED FOR A WHILE WITH EVERY THING DOWN BELOW TAKEN OUT DO YOU THINK SOME LEAKING PROUBLES HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO BOILERS ON THE QUEEN UP TOP IN HER OCEAN LINER DAYS.. THANKS,, VETERAN..
Oh yeah, the shore-side boilers for the hotel have had leaking pipes for years, they are part of the reason why the tank tops have had pooling water on them. All that plumbing needed to be replaced along with the hotel boilers.
I don't know why they gutted so much of the Queen Mary to make a museum.
When the ship was a museum in itself.
Sadly its because at the time, nobody thought a retired ocean liner would make for a popular museum. In the 1970s ocean liners like the Queen Mary were treated like tired old greyhound busses...once it's not useful anymore, they go to the scrap yard, and most people don't shed a tear. So carving up the Queen Mary to build a museum inside seemed like a genius idea. It would only be realized in hindsight that ocean liners make for more interesting museums, than the exhibits they hold inside of them.
I hope this reply gets to you, this is my 4th or 5th reply to one of your comments and I'm not sure you see them.
So how would they correct the bending of the ship? If she doesn't have all her machinery anymore?
Man I would like if they built the museum
1) I remember the Jaques Costeau exhibit in the QM (1972). The one thing that stuck with me is that by the year 2000 humans could have gills surgically implanted so that humans could live like fish. I'm glad that never happened.
2) The ballast thing concerns me if the SS United States is moved it could capsize because the last owner gutted the ship.
That last part is a bit of a concern now that you mention it after I watched this video... :/
Terrible! The SS United States is another great ship I'm a fan of.
Even though I've never seen it. Was it ever in Halifax NS, do you know?
Of course now there are the very heavy lift ships.
Big enough to carry the SS United States?! That is an interesting thought.
@@michaelrmurphy2734 No, I don't think she ever visited NS. Although she was a great ship, she was launched at the same time that jets were making trans-Atlantic travel by ship obsolete, so, the owners kept her on a NY to London run.
2) It is my fondest wish to have enough money land in my lap so the great ship could be restored. First on the list is to get her dry docked to check, repair and paint the waterline and below so that she can make a much bigger move. The conservancy probably thinks that the great ship is viable in Philadelphia as a tourist attraction and hotel, I vehemently disagree. I'd like to see her moved to a city with a pro business climate where she would be the gem attraction amongst lesser attractions.
@@The_Dudester As far as I'm aware, while they are considering Philly, it is most certainly not at the top of their list for a potential home for her. Big stupid mistake if they do that. 😂😂
Wow thank you that was so interesting thank you for that
As for the old tall-tale about her original funnels, my question is: does someone, somewhere, have pieces of Queen Mary's original funnels?
Most likely yes
I thought you were going to say that the list to port was because all the ghosts live and sleep on the dockside of the ship. 👻😉😆 Happy April 1st.
Lol! Good one
Great good job 👍!! I was just wondering could you do a video of how big and deep is the structure underneath and around the Queen Mary ship if she sank?? How far down would she go and what it look like?? In other words with the ship sink flat on the bottom with half the ship out of the water or would she be our her side?? Also if the submarine sank next to the Queen Mary would she sink down or straight to the queen Mary on the way Underneath waterline depending on how the Area below the water is designed?? This is just hypothetical And it would be interesting to lease skin idea what could happen in an extreme worst scenario??
Unfortunately, I don't think that video would work out too well. I don't know what it looks like down there. All I know is that there is an average of 12 feet of water between her keel and the harbor bed. I don't want to make videos that explain how she would sink, on my channel I'm trying to put an end to the lie that the Queen Mary is going to capsize, thanks to what the media is publishing constantly. So talking about how she would capsize in that scenario...would only fuel people's belief that she will...even though I've made tons of videos saying that she won't.
But as for your questions, all I can tell you is, in order to fit her in the harbor, they carved out a trench of deep water that is approximately 50 feet deep from the harbor bed to the surface. She is moored to the dock with spring-loaded cables, and in case those fail, she has an extra set of safety ropes. If she were to take on water in a major flooding scenario (which again is so unlikely that it might as well be deemed impossible), then she would most likely take on a starboard list. The mooring cables would hold her close to the dock, but as she settled, the cables would allow her to lower down into the water, if she went down low enough, she might snap her cables, relying on the safety ropes to keep her from moving too far. Eventually the starboard side of her keel would contact the bed of the harbor, but I'm uncertain if she would settle flat, because it's possible that the sloping angle on the pier-side might extend down underwater, making the ground beneath the ship half flat, half angled. But I don't know for certain.
Ya I understand your response and I’m okay with that. As far as the submarine being in such severe state of decay do you think there’s a chance it might sink to the bottom before they can get it out and if it did sink due to its corrosive manner do you think it would just go down and not hit the bow of the queen Mary in anyway or do you think it would?? Also if the submarine did Sink completely To the bottom and would not able to raise it up would they just be able to just deconnect terminate the water and just leave the submarine at the bottom and let it rust naturally?? Also too why hasn’t anybody thought about decontaminating submarine next to the Queen Mary and letting it sink completely to the bottom so that it makes an artificial reef and diving area for divers who are Learning the dive next to the queen Mary?? Also the city could just clean out the submarine and just let it sink in decay along with Memorial on the surface which is unfortunate way to go but then again everything does have an end. I just hope somebody come forward and resurrect the submarine in someway before it’s ultimate demise.
How were the engines and boilers removed? Disassembly, piece by piece?
Yes, first they removed the funnels while workers were down below cutting up the machinery, then everything was hoisted out through the funnel shaft. Then each level of the shaft was decked-over to add square footage to the ship, and new funnels were placed on top of the ship.
Would she be structually strong enough to be moved to this dry dock even if it was very close by?
Yes, the dry dock would be within 3 miles from the ship, still inside the Long Beach harbor, protected by the Long Beach breakwater system, so there shouldn't be too much stress on the hull during transport. The only concerns come if she were to have to leave the protective harbor breakwater.
@@AlextheHistorian I think we only have three historic ocean liners left? Two of which I have visited SS Rotterdam(boarded) and the SS United States(visual twice 2013/2020). Let's hope I get to see the old lady with my own eyes.
Great work my friend Jay 44 Ireland 🇮🇪.
@@metheult Holland America's SS Rotterdam is about my age!
A ship built for the Modern Age in the 1950s. I'm happy she is still around!
@@metheult We have the Rotterdam, Queen Mary, United States, I've heard speculation that the NS Savannah is due to become a floating hotel in Savannah, GA in 2030 when she is fully deactivated. You can theoretically count the QE2 in Dubai and the MS Bore
Would it be possible to build some sort of dry dock around her where the current breakwater is. So repairs can be made and maintenance can be done and just fill it so she floats when they finish the repairs? I think it would make future repairs on her much easier.
It's possible, but a lot more expensive. They want to build a separate dry dock, because at least when they do, they can make tons of money from it by using it to repair other ships.
Would Long Beach be able to use the drydocks leftover from the former Long Beach Naval Shipyard -- if still in existence?
It doesn't exist anymore, it was filled-in a long time ago to add more space to the cargo docks.
how can you fit in to the tanks ?
Each tank has one or two access hatches, they are large enough for a slim person to crawl into.
I love the Queen Mary.
Then you've come to the right channel!
That was fascinating .. i learned a lot for sure! Am i right in understanding that QM has only a few feet of water under her in that basin? Not likely she'd capsize there regardless, I'm thinking? Definitely subscribing!
Thanks! Yes on average she has about 12 feet of water under her keel, depending on the tide. But her hull has a draft of about 34 feet (currently), so average depth of her lagoon is about 46 feet, which is actually deeper than the harbor between her and downtown!
@@AlextheHistorian How do they maintain her keel in the water, for example the anti corrosion paint all these years?
She had her last dry docking in 1969, that's also when they last added her anti-corrosion paint, and they installed her SACP system. (Scrificial Anode Cathodic Peotection). While her hull is covered in algae and barnacles, the sacrificial zinc plates have protected her from saltwater corrosion all this time. But she is in need of dry docking to clean, inspect, and repaint her hull.
@@AlextheHistorian Doesn't the SACP have to be replaced every so many years? Also how big are these SACP bars/plates? BTW Great Channel!
Yes the SACP has been replaced periodically. I dont know how large they are though.
She's also sitting in a breakwater now and the water is not that deep where she is. In a high wind or waves at sea she may lean a bit or even capsize.
If she capsized at sea, it wouldn't be because she is top heavy...because she isnt. It would be because the twisting motion of the ship at sea ripped some rivets out of her plates.
Is the Queen Mary open again
She won't be open until probably closer to Halloween.
@@AlextheHistorian will u do ur tea
Maybe! If I can!
I wonder what it looks like below the water line..
All your videos are so interesting and informative I love watching them, but I have a suggestion that you put a trigger warning for submechanophobia/ thalassophobia when showing parts of the engine room or underwater. It can really cause anxiety for some of us when watching this awesome content.
I think the best examples of top heavy ships are those big battleships….
Cuz when they take in water from one side they capsize as those turret barrettes weigh a freaking lot
And once those turrets fall off when ship is upside down in the water whilst sinking….then it becomes equalised in weight again perhaps but it’s already underwater so who knows
My thoughts from sinking of the bismarck….not a ship expert but this is my thought. correct me if I’m wrong
So by this logic, does this mean that the Queen Mary could easily be towed safely? She still has her stabilizers and only about 4000 tons of equipment has been removed, which yes is a lot but compared to her regular tonnage that's quite small
I dont know where you heard that, her stabilizers were removed in 1969 and patched over. But yes she should be fine to tow a short distance, maximum 5 miles. She cannot leave the safety of the long Beach breakwater.
@@AlextheHistorian Oh, I could've sworn she still had them! Would she get new stabilizers when she eventually enters drydock?
I was watching Cunard horns and one the Queen Mary Had 3 horns 2 on one stack that worked on boilers Those don't work or were removed one or 2 we're refurbished and put on either the QE2 or QM2 it's a short video and you can hear QM horn at noon every day
Yes I made that video lol. Queen Mary had 3 horns, 2 on the forward funnel, and one on the middle funnel. The horn from the middle funnel was shipped on the QE2 to France to be placed on the Queen Mary 2. Meanwhile the original Queen Mary still has 2 of her horns, only one is used.
I'd like for there to be an interactive thing, where you can pretend to fuel the ship! Kinda like Titanic museums, and yeah, make a replica boiler room, please
I think if the CM gose over the superstructure, the ship will capsize
So, is the second officer in charge of the ship's ballast tanks? :p
No, that would be the ship's carpenter or the shipwright.
@@AlextheHistorian I must have a word with the captain about this :D
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They wanted to make replicas in the early 2000s but the sadly like every other thing it never happened
I know the people who dreamed up that project. The Yarrow Project...and I'm working with them to bring everyone some special surprises on my channel. The Yarrow Project is making a come-back.
@@AlextheHistorian I cant wait I would love to see yarrow project back I remember seeing the videos and tarps that would hang in the boilers inside the Queen Mary
Make me sick the ripped this historical ship apart
It’s so chilling how much Queen Mary looks like the Titanic her livery all the way to the colours of her chimney stacks
I think it is a starbored list
After taking the boilers out, the funnels collapsed. The funnels are replicas
The replicas are still made of steel and weigh nearly the same amount.
I know you talk about the queen marry quite often but could you get any information on the United States? She was my second liner I fell in love with and would really enjoy anything you could gather that maybe I might not know.
if its huanted why is so many people come in one day?
Some people would tell you that the Queen Mary isn't haunted. But I'll tell you why people used to board the ship in huge crowds...because she's an amazing, beautiful ship with a lot more history than ghosts.
I spent a week onboard QM in 2018, took all the tours, as far as I can tell she isn't haunted
is the queen mary huanted?
I wish people didn't ask that, instead I'd like to hear people ask about her fascinating history and her unparalleled design and architecture. IF she is haunted, its not with angry spirits. It's with the spirits of people who loved and adored their time aboard the ship. If she's haunted, she's filled with happy spirits. That being said, I've never seen a ghost on the ship.
I think the short answer would be no lol
Indeed, but people watch my channel to learn the details of "why".
@@AlextheHistorian it’s still a good video! Didn’t know the engines and boilers had been removed
Thankfully she still has two of her engines, and she still has her steering gear. The engines are massive!
Your alsome
Thank you!
Fascinating subject and talk, but as you’re clearly indoors, why are you wearing your hat? ☹️
I used to wear it all the time when I did outdoor vlogs. It has become my signature look. Think of it like a costume for a stage show
Every ship would be top heavy without their boilers Click bait rubbish
Did you actually watch the video? It's not clickbait, I actually explain something everyone asks about.
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Furrow