8:13 this is how I prefer to do it. Leave something on the table with respect to upper and lower limits. Over the full range it still provides a usable 90% or 80%. I stay well away from upper and lower BMS voltage thresholds to keep things simple. Also, your advice about not using multiple 12V batteries and use systems voltage batteries instead (24V, 48V) in parallel is how I would approach it, or the advice I would offer others. Most of my systems are or have been 48V, so over the last 20 years they were systems made of 2V, 6V or 12V various lead-acid or AGMs to achieve 48V. Another benefit of LiFePO4, with 48V units available off the shelf, certainly makes paralleling them easy. Another good video. Cheer, from Australia.
I just bought one of these Victron battery balancers for my two x 12 volt 150 Ah = 24 volt 300 Ah system. I love this clear and concise video explaining the issues involved. Really excellent!
If you have 2X 12v 150ah batteries wired in series you have 300ah 12v. If you have your batteries wired in parallel you have 24v 150ah Either way you have the same watt hours
Hey I just installed 3 of these on our 48v bank of 12v batteries! Been using cheap Amazon balancers since we started having issues with ballance and have gone through 3 of them. Finally decided to just spend the extra money on Victron so we stop having to replace things. We had used our 4 lifepo4 Enjoybot batteries for a while before we used them in a series config. But once we got the inverters and switched over to 48v even though I had top ballanced all of them (had them all in parallel and connected our victron blue smart charger) After about 4 months of light use at first, we basically had no capacity because one of the batteries had already gotten very low compared to the other 3. Once we got the first Amazon special ballancer it gained majority of the 5kw capacity back. Although it still didn't come to full capacity. (I assume because the ballancer's where on all the time instead of just when at a high soc) But yeah, hopefully these will do a lot better! Definitely excited to have them finally.
I have not used one of these, but going by your test, the battery balancer seems to only come on at high SOC, correct? Because at the majority of the SOC curve, the voltage differential between the packs will be either non-existent or very small. Your argument at the end for needing a balancer for solar batteries that are not charged to 100% makes good sense for other lithium-ion chemistries, but I do not think it applies to lifepo4. And the cell drift in the individual packs from cycling every day is minimal, even when doing shallow cycles. The cell drift is typically only a few percent every couple of months. The built-in BMS passive dissipative balancing circuit is more than enough to keep the packs balanced. My friend who does EV conversions with lifepo4 cells showed me that when using an Orion BMS with a pretty limited dissipative balance current, was more than ideal for 60-100kWh battery packs with shallow cycles and high surges. Less demanding than solar, but still kept up with cell drift over time. The battery engineers understand this and have tested it for a long time. What you can do instead is use a 12V battery charger to charge each pack to 100% before connecting in series. Then the two packs will cycle together without issue. Try it out, and over 6 months, check the state of charge to see if one is drifting more than the other. Balancing does not take that long, and hitting 100% SOC is the only time you can balance them anyways, whether you use the victron balancer or the BMS balance circuit. Now these balancers are fantastic for NMC, LTO and lead acid. Absolutely. More linear SOC curve and large installations need it. But for lifepo4? I just do not see the point of it. The BMS balancers are more than enough to correct cell drift over time.
If there is balancing issues, throwing a 12V charger on each pack once a year is more than enough. Best way to tell if there is excessive drift between the two packs is do a capacity test on the whole string once a month. You'll notice that the difference is so small or not measurable. And you won't need to balance them at all. For all the reasons I mentioned in original comment.
Correct, doesn't turn on until 27.3V (27.4V in my testing) at which point the cells would be 3.42V and in the steep climb at the end of the SOC charge curve. When I think about how I use my large battery bank on my all-electric home - it rarely hits 100% SOC. I'm very aware of the types of loads that are run and will purposely do certain activities when I know the SOC is high (such as laundry which consumes ~7kWh per load). I can't speak for everyone, but my assumption is many whom are running similar off-grid setups are also very aware of their loads/usage. That was my reasoning for separating out the two types of systems, off-grid vs backup. Thinking specifically how I use batteries, I just can't see the 25-50mA balance current will keep them in check over long periods of time (months to years) - especially considering some BMS alternate every other channel when balancing, pause for overheating, etc knowing it will rarely ever be triggered. Additionally, I've seen such a wide variety of pre-programmed settings in these batteries I've torn apart. Some begin balancing at 3.4V, others 3.65V, some kill charging at 3.65V, others allow 3.75V, 3.80V, etc. I guess how well the battery is designed plays a role too (should have mentioned this). I still think it has a place (though I agree very limited). Of course, I could always be over-thinking with regards to how much/quickly they actually do drift and need to do some long-term testing. With all of the options we have now at reasonable prices, easier to just buy a 24V battery than two 12V anyway...
@@LithiumSolar yeah agreed with all your points. You should try it though for fun. Just cycle some random 12V packs in series and see what happens. I went without balancing on a pack for a year and they were at nearly the same soc. Pulled like 98% capacity from the pack. Fun little experiment to try if you can find a way to do it
@@LithiumSolar now these balancers are nearly required for large lead acid banks. My goodness. Those things are so hard to balance. Even with equalization. The current sharing issues and trying to fulfill a equalization charge with solar make it nearly impossible. Using balancer and grid charger is best way to do it.
I have one too it's great, I'm using a 16s jk bms. But I heard the 2amps is not constant it's in pulses so it's more like 1 amp but still plenty enough to balance the cells.
I am having a problem with the exact type of setup you tested in this video. After just a few months, I was getting low voltage alarms from my 2024 inverter. I checked and one of the 12v batteries I had connected in series was at nearly zero state of charge, while the other was around 40% SOC. I was really stunned by this, thought it was a fluke, charged up both batteries to 100%, connected them in series and then connected them back to the bus bars for my system. Within just weeks, they were grossly out of balance again! My question is about how this unit balances. You said it creates a "dissipative" load. Does that mean it just bleeds off current from the battery showing higher voltage until they are close enough, then stops doing anything? It doesn't take current from that battery and trickle charge the other battery until the voltages are basically the same? I want the two batteries to be in balance, but I'd rather not just dissipate (via heat?) current to achieve that. I mean, if that's the only way to do it, I guess that is what it takes, but not exactly ideal.
This is a handy little gadget.. Just follow the wiring instructions and all will be well.. I had done the wiring ad-hoc and it didnt work but after reviewing the argumentation.. All is well now.
do you know what the 'shelf life' is of those SOK batteries? I have 2 of the ones on the right (viewer's right). By shelf life, I mean the battery sitting on a shelf and not powering anything. Does this shorten the life? thanks
I have a datasheet from GFB for 100Ah cells, though I'm not sure if it's the exact same cells used in SOK, states that it should be stored around 50% SOC and cycled once per 3 months while in storage and suggests that periods longer than 6 months can result in some capacity loss. Also, you risk the BMS depleting the battery if it's stored long-term. The BMS always consumes a tiny amount of current to remain "on".
So what if I have four 24 volt batteries in parallel? Is there a balancer that will work on that setup? And what about a charger for 24 volt batteries?
This device is for 12V batteries only. Regardless, if you do not have any series connections (and it sounds like you don't) then you don't need any balancing of any kind.
The part at the end seems to confuse cell balancing with battery balancing. As I understand it, only the BMS can balance individual cells, and a balancer such as the Victron can only balance batteries. I think it helps also to remember, the word battery means a grouping of smaller units, and a cell is an individual unit. That is where "artillery battery" reminds us of that general meaning, just as living cells remind us that a cell is the individual unit..
@@michaelmoeslund so there are three levels(?). The individual cells in the battery, the strings of cells in each battery, and the strings of batteries. Here by battery I mean the whole battery, with strings of individual cells inside the battery. Some batteries consist of a single string of cells, others have multiple strings. The way it is stated in the video, the individual cells are balanced by the BMS. In dozens of references by manufacturers and videographers, the BMS balances the individual cells, not strings of cells. Either is possible, but no one EVER says the BMS balances the strings of cells inside the battery. It’s also easier to talk about if you only mean pre manufactured batteries, and not ones put together by the user from individual cells. Home made batteries can be wired up any way the builder chooses, so it takes a ton more verbiage to explain. So…3 levels possible.
i have a truck with 24V system, 2 series batteries. Does this device drain battery if it is left connected to the batteries? The system will only go over 24 volts when the engine is running and alternator is charging . It will show about 28volts when engine is running.. So, i assume it would remain idle when the engine is off. Does it use any power when it is idle?
What do the instructions say about using 4 or 6 batteries all 12 volt but configured to 24 volts where there are 2 or 3 common points do you need a balancer for every 24 volt connection?
No, just one balancer provided the 12V batteries are in parallel first (ie not multiple series strings). There is a wiring diagram of this in the instruction manual, top-right of page 2 www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Battery-Balancer-EN.pdf
That would depend on how they're wired. If they're paralleled first, then series'd - one balancer. If they're series'd first, then paralleled - two balancers. Of course, the best option would be to just buy a 24V battery instead :)
thanks. I have a similar set up - 2 SOK 12s in series and MPP 2700 watt 24 v all in one, and a Victron Smart shunt. I had a "midpoint voltage deviation" issue and I then installed a balancer (not the Victron, but one from watts247...and it seems to help)..I am now wondering if the balancer is messing up the smart shunt requirement that the shunt becomes the system positive ( with nothing else connected to the batteries )...
Thanks for the review. do you know of a balance controller that will balance two 12V batteries connected in parallel. This looks like a 24V and I have to 12V battery banks I want to balance. They are connecting to a Victron Multiplus II 12V 120
Hello, thanks for this video ! In a parallel + series scenario(4 batteries), do you recommend 1 or 2 balancers ? I feel a bit nervous to connect the 2 mid-point 😮
Hi there Really enjoyed your explanation How would i go about using the battery ballancer if i have 2 x 12v in series (24v) just as your video, but have two extra 12v in parallel to increase a/h
Hi i have just bought one of these battery balancers. But i have x8 12v battleborn all connected in series making them 24v so do i need to connect 4 of these battery balancers or in one enough to balance the 4 series?
the end.. teh recommendations.. that was veryi nformative. so basically if i have enough solar input and charging to keep the batteries at 100% pr flot for a few hours on my off grid setup then the batteries will balance themselves right? im planning to achieve this with powerstations. because i can use their solar inputs in the day to take the load off the batteries while they charge from the charge controller/ *laughs evilly*rubs hands together* only reason i started looking up the balancer is because in the future i hope to go 48v but a rack battery is big bucks like 900 dollars yet 4 12v is roughly 500. i am seriously considering if i should buy a redodo alternator charger that has solar input to charge my battery bank as i currently the victron isnt charging my bank of 2 12v 100ah in parallel all the way up in the day although it has 800w of solar coming in - it keeps limiting it to like 240w. anyway thats why i started looking up stuff i have a 24v inverter on the way from ebay... so then i got caught up in battery balancers because when i reach im gonna drop it in series.
Even if you use 12V batteries in an UPS application, I would recommend using a balancer. It's true that the internal BMS of the battery will balance the cells (even with a higher current than stated in this video), but the individual BMSes do not communicate with each other. They will balance two groups of four cells but those BMSes will NOT balance those two cell groups. No matter how much time you give them. It would be even better to use a BMS designed for 8S operation, but that's not an option if you buy 12V lithium batteries. Unless you are willing to take them apart, but then you might as well buy the parts seperately and build your own battery.
@@LithiumSolar I have already purchased the batteries, and they are in series and parallel, I'm finding my victron bmv is also jumping to 100%Paul. Thanks for replying
I would add a step to the initial charge. After both batteries are fully charged individually I would connect them in parallel for a day before connecting in series.
Very good but one thing that I not understand can you clearly explain in your next video IS THAT BALANCER bleed the current instead to transfer in to low battery to equalise ? If it's dissipat the power it means the batteries will faster drain ? Suggestion use volt meter on etch battery so we can see how's balancer works Thank you and best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭
Which distributor? The distributor I purchased mine from says they can be used on LiFePO4 and I don't see why not myself. The Victron manual doesn't make any mention of this either.
@@patriciovergara4525 I'm not sure why it would need to be the positive side. Placing a fuse in either location will interrupt current flow if there's a short.
Hi,anyone can advise me, i have 8 pcs 6v flooded battery in 24v configuration(4 battery in series,2 in parallel) how many those ballancer do i need and how to hooking up. Thanks
I have 4 24V lithium ion batteries which I’m going to run two sets in series for a 48v 200amp system, will this work to keep my 24v batteries balanced?
I have some questions and would be grateful for your answers. What gauge wire did you use for the battery balancers? What size ferrules did you use? Also, I will be connecting two Battle Born 12v 100 Amp batteries in series to a trolling motor for my boat. I will be using a Victron 24V 16 Amp charger for LiFePO4 batteries. Will I need the Victron battery balancer?
I used 18AWG wire. I'm not sure the size ferrules. I have an assortment case of them and they're not labeled. I assume your use case will allow plenty of time at 100% SOC (full charge) for any balancing to occur by the batteries' internal BMS, so in that case, think you'll be perfectly fine without one of these balancers.
Hey Naomi, I have the same configuration that you do, and after 6 months without the balancer, I came home yesterday and one of my batteries was at 10.7 volts and the other at 12.8. The system was totally shut down. They were both at 13.1 volts when originally connected. I charged the lower battery up to 11.8 volts (my manual said the BMS shuts down at 10.8, and reconnects at 11.6) and I reinstalled it and the system went back to normal operation. I then installed the Victron battery balancer and will be monitoring the situation. I have read and heard repeatedly that the BMS only balances the internal cells to each other, not one battery to another. Sorry Lithium Solar, but I made another comment on that to you directly, about your discussion at the end of the video that seems to confuse BMS cell balancing with battery balancing.
@@LithiumSolar It's their standard answer when asked this question, I've seen it several times on their forum. But Victron has a habit of only referring to Victron products, as in their batteries with interconnected smart BMS.
It does make sense that if the balancer dissipates the extra charge on th better charged battery as heat, then there is potential for fire, especially with LiFePo4s, which can deliver massive amounts of current comparatively.
I don't recommend stick balancer such way, because backside balancer's aluminum radiator became so hot and could damage your inverter or solar charger control cover.
Seems to work fine for me. I've heard people tell me it isn't, but I didn't see anything in Victron's manual stating this. If you're not sure, best thing to do is contact their support center and ask.
Thanks for info, sounds what I'll need in the future. So how do you charge 2 x 12v batteries in series, do you need to disconnect and use a 12v charger or can you just use a 24v charger " assuming the batteries are balanced".
For Lifepo4....my opinion....for initial balancing, yes, disconnect and fully charge separately. Once balanced and hooked in series in your system using a good charge controller, they should be left in series until/unless there is a capacity issue.
Thank you! Do you have a video on how to balance one battery at a time and what charger you would use for that. I have eight Battle Born Batteries tied in series parallel for 24 V. When I had six batteries and added two more I had my system go really crazy and it took like a couple of weeks to get them balanced properly. I just left them together and didn’t discharge anything until they were all balanced. It was my first time going off grid with the system, so I know I didn’t handle it the best. 🤪 But I know there’s a better way next time. 🖖
I use an AIMS 12/24V charger (it does both) with a LiFePO4 setting. There's a link in the video description. It sounds like your batteries weren't at the same SOC (state of charge) when you connected them. To avoid this behavior, I would charge each battery by itself with a 12V charger before making your connections.
@@LithiumSolar Yes there was a lot to learn on my first build. I find there’s a lot of things that TH-camrs leave out. Little details that can cause major problems for people who are just beginning. Fortunately things have gotten much easier now as there are things you can get that are packaged together to make it much simpler. 🖖
@@5400bowen Will Prowse is mean. He kicked me out of his solar forum because an automatic transfer switch he promotes is garbage. And I wasn't the one who said it, it was a couple of engineers trying to help me.
@@LithiumSolar wrong…they were perfectly balanced. The Victron is useless. Only balances when the batteries are above the highest voltage almost all lithium batteries ever attain. Very poor engineering.
Hello, Professor, I purchased the balancer, charged each battery separately, and connected the balancer to the batteries. It did not perform any balancing operation on the battery. I waited for it for hours, and upon examination, the battery found a different voltage. What is the reason?
I dont understand why? The balancingcurrent is very small, it would make no difference? One point could be compensating losses in cabling/connections between the lithiumbatteries? Though maintaining a specified max allowed constant voltage ""absorbtion"" for an hour or two before changing to Float or simply stop charging - will balance the batteries AND allow for each battery top balancing if needed. Very easily arranged with solar, Victron has proper programmable MPPTs. Worth noting is that all those "cheap" lead acid drop in replacement batteries all have passive /resistive balancers working with very low balancing currents. This internal balancing is a grey area here on youtube, "Clarks adventure" is the only one briefly approaching the matter. Passive balancing takes time, an internally unbalanced battery will need days of max charge voltage supplied. When the two separate battery units (in your system 2x12V will balance by themselves within an hour or so - also with a max allowed constant voltage on the battery supplied. (max allowed charge voltage is lower than BMS shut off voltage - two completely different values, if these are not stated by the batterymanufacturer - dont buy them.
Yeah the kick in voltage is way to high. Almost never comes on unless you stop using power for a bit or have a massively oversized system for your needs. There is cheaper balancer I found that works constantly and I’ve been using it for at least 6 months. It’s from Amazon, Mazava brand. I got the small one for my two 12 volt Lossigy batteries and it works where the Victron was useless. I’m 68 and have been working with electricity since I was a child, I know my stuff. This Mazava may look chincy compared to the Victron, and has no reputation except the one here by me and other Utube people, and of course the reviews on Amazon. It’s better than the Victron under any circumstances I can think of, except those stated earlier.
@@5400bowen I’m wondering if you’re still happy with your active balancer? It must be over a year now that you’ve been using it? The brand doesn’t have the cache that Victron has. I’m also wondering why, if it’s a technology that’s better for any situation, why Victron doesn’t offer their own version as well as the passive one they do already? Hmmmm….
@@offgridiot yes it is working PERFECTLY, and the useless overpriced Victron is sitting in the box. You really think because Victron pays sleazy TH-camrs to do positive reviews of their stuff and so many newbies and people with more money than sense buy it that it proves it is good? You think every business is Mary Poppins and just charges the minimum so their CEO can’t buy a Lear jet? Their own version of a cheap, efficient, durable product to compete with their gold mine trash? What fairyland do you live in? This technology is primitive compared to a cell phone. They are greedy Dutch, just like their colonial endeavors, they couldn’t care less about the value and performance of their products. They care about profit. Hmmmmm.
Yes, they eventually will... Think about how the balancing works. Both BMSes have the same parameters. They are not aware of the other battery's voltage; however, they are both balancing to the same voltage points.
These batterycells are mostly guaranteed to last 10 years minimum or a certain number of charges/discharges,which is not the case with a bms,or at least I dont trust these electronic devices more than other e.d.s that we use!So think its a good idea to have a unit like this,at least after the guar. has run out.
It could work to a certain extent, but remember these are made for lead acid batteries and not lifepo4.. , I would ask Victron for advice on this one first, I have been using this balancer for AMG batteries for years...
Actually, lead acid batteries tend to self balance, which is stated by Solar City in their online article “How To Find Happiness With LiFePo4 Batteries”, and I have heard that from multiple other sources. It is in fact mainly LiFePo4 batteries that need an external ongoing balancer installed.
Hey thanks for that video very clear and instructive. I was not sure about getting that thing or not but after listening i will. I have 2x 12volt 300ah (volthium brand) connected in serie to give me a 24volt system but one discharge always faster than the other which after couple of weeks i loose about 10% of capacity. I hope with that balancer that this gonna solve my problem. At first i tought it was because im using 12volts stuff so this was causing a unequal discharge so i bought their 24volts to 12 volts step down. Finally that didnt solve the problem. Might just get that balancer
Victron is way overpriced and clumsy in their designs. The balancer dissipates the extra charge on the higher SOC battery as heat. The cheap Mazava from Amazon shunts it from the higher to the lower. Much smarter, much more efficient, and much safer.
I'm aware it doesn't balance the individual cells. If your 12V batteries are out of balance with each other, the charger is going to be disconnected by the BMS in the higher SOC battery, thus the cell voltages in the lower SOC battery will never reach high enough to allow cell balancing. Having this device balance the two 12V batteries out solves that problem.
@@LithiumSolar No sweat, I am hoping to use my advanced language skills to help you improve if you are open to improvement. I know you know your stuff, or I would say otherwise directly. So…are there LiFePo batteries that have more than one string of cells in it? Or are all of them a single series chain of cells?
Wasting energy from batteries, that has more voltage as the other, is not that great. better would be, to take that energy and put it in the lower voltage battery
![Lifeboat Conversion Ep41: Why I'm changing over from Victron to a generic battery bank balancer [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H0IapMQPoJA/mqdefault.jpg)
8:13 this is how I prefer to do it. Leave something on the table with respect to upper and lower limits. Over the full range it still provides a usable 90% or 80%. I stay well away from upper and lower BMS voltage thresholds to keep things simple. Also, your advice about not using multiple 12V batteries and use systems voltage batteries instead (24V, 48V) in parallel is how I would approach it, or the advice I would offer others. Most of my systems are or have been 48V, so over the last 20 years they were systems made of 2V, 6V or 12V various lead-acid or AGMs to achieve 48V. Another benefit of LiFePO4, with 48V units available off the shelf, certainly makes paralleling them easy. Another good video. Cheer, from Australia.
Same set the max charge half a volt or so below the max. Doesn't really matter if your batteries charge to 14.0 vs 14.5v ea
Correct :) The BMS is a safety device - not a control device. A quite conservative point of view but worth considering.
I just bought one of these Victron battery balancers for my two x 12 volt 150 Ah = 24 volt 300 Ah system. I love this clear and concise video explaining the issues involved. Really excellent!
If you have 2X 12v 150ah batteries wired in series you have 300ah 12v.
If you have your batteries wired in parallel you have 24v 150ah
Either way you have the same watt hours
@@wyattspowersports6433other way! Connected in series increase voltage.
Parallel makes higher amp.
Hey I just installed 3 of these on our 48v bank of 12v batteries!
Been using cheap Amazon balancers since we started having issues with ballance and have gone through 3 of them. Finally decided to just spend the extra money on Victron so we stop having to replace things.
We had used our 4 lifepo4 Enjoybot batteries for a while before we used them in a series config. But once we got the inverters and switched over to 48v even though I had top ballanced all of them (had them all in parallel and connected our victron blue smart charger)
After about 4 months of light use at first, we basically had no capacity because one of the batteries had already gotten very low compared to the other 3.
Once we got the first Amazon special ballancer it gained majority of the 5kw capacity back. Although it still didn't come to full capacity. (I assume because the ballancer's where on all the time instead of just when at a high soc)
But yeah, hopefully these will do a lot better! Definitely excited to have them finally.
I have not used one of these, but going by your test, the battery balancer seems to only come on at high SOC, correct? Because at the majority of the SOC curve, the voltage differential between the packs will be either non-existent or very small. Your argument at the end for needing a balancer for solar batteries that are not charged to 100% makes good sense for other lithium-ion chemistries, but I do not think it applies to lifepo4.
And the cell drift in the individual packs from cycling every day is minimal, even when doing shallow cycles. The cell drift is typically only a few percent every couple of months. The built-in BMS passive dissipative balancing circuit is more than enough to keep the packs balanced.
My friend who does EV conversions with lifepo4 cells showed me that when using an Orion BMS with a pretty limited dissipative balance current, was more than ideal for 60-100kWh battery packs with shallow cycles and high surges. Less demanding than solar, but still kept up with cell drift over time. The battery engineers understand this and have tested it for a long time.
What you can do instead is use a 12V battery charger to charge each pack to 100% before connecting in series. Then the two packs will cycle together without issue. Try it out, and over 6 months, check the state of charge to see if one is drifting more than the other. Balancing does not take that long, and hitting 100% SOC is the only time you can balance them anyways, whether you use the victron balancer or the BMS balance circuit.
Now these balancers are fantastic for NMC, LTO and lead acid. Absolutely. More linear SOC curve and large installations need it. But for lifepo4? I just do not see the point of it. The BMS balancers are more than enough to correct cell drift over time.
If there is balancing issues, throwing a 12V charger on each pack once a year is more than enough. Best way to tell if there is excessive drift between the two packs is do a capacity test on the whole string once a month. You'll notice that the difference is so small or not measurable. And you won't need to balance them at all. For all the reasons I mentioned in original comment.
Correct, doesn't turn on until 27.3V (27.4V in my testing) at which point the cells would be 3.42V and in the steep climb at the end of the SOC charge curve. When I think about how I use my large battery bank on my all-electric home - it rarely hits 100% SOC. I'm very aware of the types of loads that are run and will purposely do certain activities when I know the SOC is high (such as laundry which consumes ~7kWh per load). I can't speak for everyone, but my assumption is many whom are running similar off-grid setups are also very aware of their loads/usage. That was my reasoning for separating out the two types of systems, off-grid vs backup.
Thinking specifically how I use batteries, I just can't see the 25-50mA balance current will keep them in check over long periods of time (months to years) - especially considering some BMS alternate every other channel when balancing, pause for overheating, etc knowing it will rarely ever be triggered. Additionally, I've seen such a wide variety of pre-programmed settings in these batteries I've torn apart. Some begin balancing at 3.4V, others 3.65V, some kill charging at 3.65V, others allow 3.75V, 3.80V, etc. I guess how well the battery is designed plays a role too (should have mentioned this).
I still think it has a place (though I agree very limited). Of course, I could always be over-thinking with regards to how much/quickly they actually do drift and need to do some long-term testing. With all of the options we have now at reasonable prices, easier to just buy a 24V battery than two 12V anyway...
@@LithiumSolar yeah agreed with all your points. You should try it though for fun. Just cycle some random 12V packs in series and see what happens. I went without balancing on a pack for a year and they were at nearly the same soc. Pulled like 98% capacity from the pack. Fun little experiment to try if you can find a way to do it
@@LithiumSolar now these balancers are nearly required for large lead acid banks. My goodness. Those things are so hard to balance. Even with equalization. The current sharing issues and trying to fulfill a equalization charge with solar make it nearly impossible. Using balancer and grid charger is best way to do it.
@@WillProwse I bought 4 zooms for 48v do I need a balancer or they will run with no problem or to change in every 6 months 1 to 4 to rotate
This item is exactly what I was looking for, thanks for sharing!
My understanding is that if using the victron smart lithium batteries, the BMS balances the series batteries?
I’m running 4 batteries in 12v parallel and they don’t stay in balance with each other will this help?
Got a JK 8S with 2A balancing current, didn't even need to top balance the cells, works like a treat!
I have one too it's great, I'm using a 16s jk bms. But I heard the 2amps is not constant it's in pulses so it's more like 1 amp but still plenty enough to balance the cells.
Hi
I am wondering how to wire the balencer on 4 battery 12 volt for 24 olt system
I am having a problem with the exact type of setup you tested in this video. After just a few months, I was getting low voltage alarms from my 2024 inverter. I checked and one of the 12v batteries I had connected in series was at nearly zero state of charge, while the other was around 40% SOC. I was really stunned by this, thought it was a fluke, charged up both batteries to 100%, connected them in series and then connected them back to the bus bars for my system. Within just weeks, they were grossly out of balance again!
My question is about how this unit balances. You said it creates a "dissipative" load. Does that mean it just bleeds off current from the battery showing higher voltage until they are close enough, then stops doing anything? It doesn't take current from that battery and trickle charge the other battery until the voltages are basically the same? I want the two batteries to be in balance, but I'd rather not just dissipate (via heat?) current to achieve that. I mean, if that's the only way to do it, I guess that is what it takes, but not exactly ideal.
Good video sir.... Q, can I have the balancer connected to the 2 bank battery at the same time having one mini voltage monitor in each battery?
This is a handy little gadget.. Just follow the wiring instructions and all will be well.. I had done the wiring ad-hoc and it didnt work but after reviewing the argumentation.. All is well now.
do you know what the 'shelf life' is of those SOK batteries? I have 2 of the ones on the right (viewer's right). By shelf life, I mean the battery sitting on a shelf and not powering anything. Does this shorten the life? thanks
I have a datasheet from GFB for 100Ah cells, though I'm not sure if it's the exact same cells used in SOK, states that it should be stored around 50% SOC and cycled once per 3 months while in storage and suggests that periods longer than 6 months can result in some capacity loss. Also, you risk the BMS depleting the battery if it's stored long-term. The BMS always consumes a tiny amount of current to remain "on".
So what if I have four 24 volt batteries in parallel? Is there a balancer that will work on that setup? And what about a charger for 24 volt batteries?
This device is for 12V batteries only. Regardless, if you do not have any series connections (and it sounds like you don't) then you don't need any balancing of any kind.
I have 2 parallel strings in series. I imagine I would have to buy two of these?
It would depend on how they're wired
@@LithiumSolar what if they are wired 2s2p?
The part at the end seems to confuse cell balancing with battery balancing. As I understand it, only the BMS can balance individual cells, and a balancer such as the Victron can only balance batteries. I think it helps also to remember, the word battery means a grouping of smaller units, and a cell is an individual unit. That is where "artillery battery" reminds us of that general meaning, just as living cells remind us that a cell is the individual unit..
Hi Robert
As I understand it, the BMS can only balance the individual strings of batteries in parallel, and not each single cell
@@michaelmoeslund so there are three levels(?). The individual cells in the battery, the strings of cells in each battery, and the strings of batteries. Here by battery I mean the whole battery, with strings of individual cells inside the battery. Some batteries consist of a single string of cells, others have multiple strings. The way it is stated in the video, the individual cells are balanced by the BMS. In dozens of references by manufacturers and videographers, the BMS balances the individual cells, not strings of cells. Either is possible, but no one EVER says the BMS balances the strings of cells inside the battery. It’s also easier to talk about if you only mean pre manufactured batteries, and not ones put together by the user from individual cells. Home made batteries can be wired up any way the builder chooses, so it takes a ton more verbiage to explain. So…3 levels possible.
i have a truck with 24V system, 2 series batteries. Does this device drain battery if it is left connected to the batteries?
The system will only go over 24 volts when the engine is running and alternator is charging . It will show about 28volts when engine is running..
So, i assume it would remain idle when the engine is off. Does it use any power when it is idle?
What do the instructions say about using 4 or 6 batteries all 12 volt but configured to 24 volts where there are 2 or 3 common points do you need a balancer for every 24 volt connection?
No, just one balancer provided the 12V batteries are in parallel first (ie not multiple series strings). There is a wiring diagram of this in the instruction manual, top-right of page 2 www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Battery-Balancer-EN.pdf
@@LithiumSolar Damn, it's not there anymore and that's what I have been looking for, for hours.
What if I have 24v system but 3 pairs of batteries (6 Batteries). How to install the balancer please. Thank you for this helpful video.
Question: if I have 2s 2p 12v batteries, do I need 2 battery balancers?
That would depend on how they're wired. If they're paralleled first, then series'd - one balancer. If they're series'd first, then paralleled - two balancers. Of course, the best option would be to just buy a 24V battery instead :)
thanks. I have a similar set up - 2 SOK 12s in series and MPP 2700 watt 24 v all in one, and a Victron Smart shunt. I had a "midpoint voltage deviation" issue and I then installed a balancer (not the Victron, but one from watts247...and it seems to help)..I am now wondering if the balancer is messing up the smart shunt requirement that the shunt becomes the system positive ( with nothing else connected to the batteries )...
Thanks for the review. do you know of a balance controller that will balance two 12V batteries connected in parallel. This looks like a 24V and I have to 12V battery banks I want to balance. They are connecting to a Victron Multiplus II 12V 120
If the batteries are in parallel, they are already electrically connected such that they'll balance with one another. You don't need a balancer.
Thank you, this makes sense. @@LithiumSolar
Hello, thanks for this video !
In a parallel + series scenario(4 batteries), do you recommend 1 or 2 balancers ?
I feel a bit nervous to connect the 2 mid-point 😮
Can you also use the balancer while the MPPT is charging?
Yes, the balancer is designed to be connected all of the time.
you made a very good video and your explaination is wonderful
Hi there
Really enjoyed your explanation
How would i go about using the battery ballancer if i have 2 x 12v in series (24v) just as your video, but have two extra 12v in parallel to increase a/h
thats what i want to know.
Hi i have just bought one of these battery balancers. But i have x8 12v battleborn all connected in series making them 24v so do i need to connect 4 of these battery balancers or in one enough to balance the 4 series?
the end.. teh recommendations..
that was veryi nformative. so basically if i have enough solar input and charging to keep the batteries at 100% pr flot for a few hours on my off grid setup then the batteries will balance themselves right?
im planning to achieve this with powerstations. because i can use their solar inputs in the day to take the load off the batteries while they charge from the charge controller/ *laughs evilly*rubs hands together*
only reason i started looking up the balancer is because in the future i hope to go 48v but a rack battery is big bucks like 900 dollars yet 4 12v is roughly 500.
i am seriously considering if i should buy a redodo alternator charger that has solar input to charge my battery bank as i currently the victron isnt charging my bank of 2 12v 100ah in parallel all the way up in the day although it has 800w of solar coming in - it keeps limiting it to like 240w.
anyway thats why i started looking up stuff i have a 24v inverter on the way from ebay... so then i got caught up in battery balancers because when i reach im gonna drop it in series.
Even if you use 12V batteries in an UPS application, I would recommend using a balancer. It's true that the internal BMS of the battery will balance the cells (even with a higher current than stated in this video), but the individual BMSes do not communicate with each other. They will balance two groups of four cells but those BMSes will NOT balance those two cell groups. No matter how much time you give them. It would be even better to use a BMS designed for 8S operation, but that's not an option if you buy 12V lithium batteries. Unless you are willing to take them apart, but then you might as well buy the parts seperately and build your own battery.
Will this balancer work with 4 12v batteries in series and parallel. Paul
Yes, but really it's recommended to just buy a 24V battery vs two 12's and a balancer.
@@LithiumSolar I have already purchased the batteries, and they are in series and parallel, I'm finding my victron bmv is also jumping to 100%Paul. Thanks for replying
Is this still the best device when using 12v batteries in series to make 24v banks?
Honestly I would just go buy a 24V battery instead of trying to use two 12V in series.
@ that would be my preferred route as well but I have 8 new 12v 200ah batteries already.
I would add a step to the initial charge. After both batteries are fully charged individually I would connect them in parallel for a day before connecting in series.
This is exactly what my battery manufacturer recommended.
Very good but one thing that I not understand can you clearly explain in your next video IS THAT BALANCER bleed the current instead to transfer in to low battery to equalise ? If it's dissipat the power it means the batteries will faster drain ?
Suggestion use volt meter on etch battery so we can see how's balancer works
Thank you and best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭
Does this Balancer communicate with CerboGx? If does, then how?
No, this does not have any sort of communications.
The Victron distributor In S Florida says these are not designed for LifeP04 and can (have) catch fire?
Which distributor? The distributor I purchased mine from says they can be used on LiFePO4 and I don't see why not myself. The Victron manual doesn't make any mention of this either.
@@LithiumSolar ARW MAritime. Voltage is not a perfect way pf measuring SOC.
Will this balancer work on China-made powerwalls? I have three of these powerwalls and they charge and discharge at widely different rates.
why did you connected fuse at the negative side between battery and inversor? :O
Because fuses are good for safety?
@@LithiumSolar hahahaha i know ! But why is connected to the negative ? My vendor says it need to be connect to possitive side (+)
@@patriciovergara4525 I'm not sure why it would need to be the positive side. Placing a fuse in either location will interrupt current flow if there's a short.
@@LithiumSolar maybe to protect for a short in the battery, in order to not blow internal fuse of your mppt inversor.
I've always wondered what that was used for
Hi,anyone can advise me, i have 8 pcs 6v flooded battery in 24v configuration(4 battery in series,2 in parallel) how many those ballancer do i need and how to hooking up. Thanks
This would be a good use for packs in series with dissimilar capacities, say 10% variance.
I have 4 24V lithium ion batteries which I’m going to run two sets in series for a 48v 200amp system, will this work to keep my 24v batteries balanced?
No. This is only for 12V batteries.
@@LithiumSolar thanks
I have some questions and would be grateful for your answers. What gauge wire did you use for the battery balancers? What size ferrules did you use? Also, I will be connecting two Battle Born 12v 100 Amp batteries in series to a trolling motor for my boat. I will be using a Victron 24V 16 Amp charger for LiFePO4 batteries. Will I need the Victron battery balancer?
I used 18AWG wire. I'm not sure the size ferrules. I have an assortment case of them and they're not labeled. I assume your use case will allow plenty of time at 100% SOC (full charge) for any balancing to occur by the batteries' internal BMS, so in that case, think you'll be perfectly fine without one of these balancers.
@@LithiumSolar I could not find that style of ferrule anywhere.
@@5400bowen You literally search Amazon for "ferrule". There are thousands of listings.
Hey Naomi, I have the same configuration that you do, and after 6 months without the balancer, I came home yesterday and one of my batteries was at 10.7 volts and the other at 12.8. The system was totally shut down. They were both at 13.1 volts when originally connected. I charged the lower battery up to 11.8 volts (my manual said the BMS shuts down at 10.8, and reconnects at 11.6) and I reinstalled it and the system went back to normal operation. I then installed the Victron battery balancer and will be monitoring the situation. I have read and heard repeatedly that the BMS only balances the internal cells to each other, not one battery to another. Sorry Lithium Solar, but I made another comment on that to you directly, about your discussion at the end of the video that seems to confuse BMS cell balancing with battery balancing.
@@5400bowen Thanks Robert. I will set my 24V series Battle Born series system with the addition of the Victron Battery Balancer.
I was calling to the victron energy that they are saying it's not good to connect battery balanser to the lifepo_4 battery
Where did they say this?
@@LithiumSolar It's their standard answer when asked this question, I've seen it several times on their forum. But Victron has a habit of only referring to Victron products, as in their batteries with interconnected smart BMS.
@@LithiumSolar I was told they may catch fire lol
@@CanadianTexaninLiguria BS. They're trying to sell you their own batteries.
It does make sense that if the balancer dissipates the extra charge on th better charged battery as heat, then there is potential for fire, especially with LiFePo4s, which can deliver massive amounts of current comparatively.
I don't recommend stick balancer such way, because backside balancer's aluminum radiator became so hot and could damage your inverter or solar charger control cover.
No, I wouldn't suggest mounting it this way either. Please follow the manufacturer's instructions regarding mounting location and method.
excellent video, exactly what I needed to know thanks
Hello sir, after your experience with a battery balancer, is it suitable for lithium batteries and what is your opinion?
Seems to work fine for me. I've heard people tell me it isn't, but I didn't see anything in Victron's manual stating this. If you're not sure, best thing to do is contact their support center and ask.
Thankyou great video explains everything very well
Thanks for info, sounds what I'll need in the future.
So how do you charge 2 x 12v batteries in series, do you need to disconnect and use a 12v charger or can you just use a 24v charger " assuming the batteries are balanced".
For Lifepo4....my opinion....for initial balancing, yes, disconnect and fully charge separately. Once balanced and hooked in series in your system using a good charge controller, they should be left in series until/unless there is a capacity issue.
Excellent video ❤️ . Thank you
Justo lo que estaba buscando, comprare este producto.
Thank you! Do you have a video on how to balance one battery at a time and what charger you would use for that. I have eight Battle Born Batteries tied in series parallel for 24 V.
When I had six batteries and added two more I had my system go really crazy and it took like a couple of weeks to get them balanced properly. I just left them together and didn’t discharge anything until they were all balanced.
It was my first time going off grid with the system, so I know I didn’t handle it the best. 🤪
But I know there’s a better way next time. 🖖
I use an AIMS 12/24V charger (it does both) with a LiFePO4 setting. There's a link in the video description. It sounds like your batteries weren't at the same SOC (state of charge) when you connected them. To avoid this behavior, I would charge each battery by itself with a 12V charger before making your connections.
@@LithiumSolar
Yes there was a lot to learn on my first build. I find there’s a lot of things that TH-camrs leave out.
Little details that can cause major problems for people who are just beginning.
Fortunately things have gotten much easier now as there are things you can get that are packaged together to make it much simpler. 🖖
@@benjones8977 Watch Will Prowse and David Poz as well as Lithium Solar here. They go into things pretty deeply and from different standpoints.
@@5400bowen Will Prowse is mean. He kicked me out of his solar forum because an automatic transfer switch he promotes is garbage. And I wasn't the one who said it, it was a couple of engineers trying to help me.
@@LithiumSolar wrong…they were perfectly balanced. The Victron is useless. Only balances when the batteries are above the highest voltage almost all lithium batteries ever attain. Very poor engineering.
Great video
Hello, Professor, I purchased the balancer, charged each battery separately, and connected the balancer to the batteries. It did not perform any balancing operation on the battery. I waited for it for hours, and upon examination, the battery found a different voltage. What is the reason?
I dont understand why? The balancingcurrent is very small, it would make no difference? One point could be compensating losses in cabling/connections between the lithiumbatteries?
Though maintaining a specified max allowed constant voltage ""absorbtion"" for an hour or two before changing to Float or simply stop charging - will balance the batteries AND allow for each battery top balancing if needed. Very easily arranged with solar, Victron has proper programmable MPPTs.
Worth noting is that all those "cheap" lead acid drop in replacement batteries all have passive /resistive balancers working with very low balancing currents.
This internal balancing is a grey area here on youtube, "Clarks adventure" is the only one briefly approaching the matter. Passive balancing takes time, an internally unbalanced battery will need days of max charge voltage supplied.
When the two separate battery units (in your system 2x12V will balance by themselves within an hour or so - also with a max allowed constant voltage on the battery supplied.
(max allowed charge voltage is lower than BMS shut off voltage - two completely different values, if these are not stated by the batterymanufacturer - dont buy them.
Would be nicer if you could configure the voltage it starts balancing at.
Yeah the kick in voltage is way to high. Almost never comes on unless you stop using power for a bit or have a massively oversized system for your needs. There is cheaper balancer I found that works constantly and I’ve been using it for at least 6 months. It’s from Amazon, Mazava brand. I got the small one for my two 12 volt Lossigy batteries and it works where the Victron was useless. I’m 68 and have been working with electricity since I was a child, I know my stuff. This Mazava may look chincy compared to the Victron, and has no reputation except the one here by me and other Utube people, and of course the reviews on Amazon. It’s better than the Victron under any circumstances I can think of, except those stated earlier.
@@5400bowen
I’m wondering if you’re still happy with your active balancer? It must be over a year now that you’ve been using it? The brand doesn’t have the cache that Victron has. I’m also wondering why, if it’s a technology that’s better for any situation, why Victron doesn’t offer their own version as well as the passive one they do already? Hmmmm….
@@offgridiot yes it is working PERFECTLY, and the useless overpriced Victron is sitting in the box. You really think because Victron pays sleazy TH-camrs to do positive reviews of their stuff and so many newbies and people with more money than sense buy it that it proves it is good? You think every business is Mary Poppins and just charges the minimum so their CEO can’t buy a Lear jet? Their own version of a cheap, efficient, durable product to compete with their gold mine trash? What fairyland do you live in? This technology is primitive compared to a cell phone. They are greedy Dutch, just like their colonial endeavors, they couldn’t care less about the value and performance of their products. They care about profit. Hmmmmm.
NO, The individual BMSes will NOT bring both batteries to the same voltage since they are not charged individually! Careful with this 😂
Yes, they eventually will... Think about how the balancing works. Both BMSes have the same parameters. They are not aware of the other battery's voltage; however, they are both balancing to the same voltage points.
These batterycells are mostly guaranteed to last 10 years minimum or a certain number of charges/discharges,which is not the case with a bms,or at least I dont trust these electronic devices more than other e.d.s that we use!So think its a good idea to have a unit like this,at least after the guar. has run out.
This helped, thanks
It could work to a certain extent, but remember these are made for lead acid batteries and not lifepo4.. , I would ask Victron for advice on this one first, I have been using this balancer for AMG batteries for years...
Actually, lead acid batteries tend to self balance, which is stated by Solar City in their online article “How To Find Happiness With LiFePo4 Batteries”, and I have heard that from multiple other sources. It is in fact mainly LiFePo4 batteries that need an external ongoing balancer installed.
I'd buy one if I could get one in Australia!
Doesn't anyone use fuses in wires connected to batteries 🤔
One short and a fire can start...
Ask me how I know...
How do you know?
In my case, i have 4 6v battery for a 24v bank
Mine end fried........ A lot of smoke....
Fun. We heard about everything but costs/value
$65 + shipping...
@@LithiumSolar cheap considering the active balancers I've seen will burn up or burn down your house :)
@@mwint1982 so will these
Hey thanks for that video very clear and instructive. I was not sure about getting that thing or not but after listening i will.
I have 2x 12volt 300ah (volthium brand) connected in serie to give me a 24volt system but one discharge always faster than the other which after couple of weeks i loose about 10% of capacity.
I hope with that balancer that this gonna solve my problem. At first i tought it was because im using 12volts stuff so this was causing a unequal discharge so i bought their 24volts to 12 volts step down. Finally that didnt solve the problem. Might just get that balancer
Victron is the best!
Victron is way overpriced and clumsy in their designs. The balancer dissipates the extra charge on the higher SOC battery as heat. The cheap Mazava from Amazon shunts it from the higher to the lower. Much smarter, much more efficient, and much safer.
You’re mixing up cell balancing with battery balancing; not the same thing. This battery balancer doesn’t balance the cells.
I'm aware it doesn't balance the individual cells. If your 12V batteries are out of balance with each other, the charger is going to be disconnected by the BMS in the higher SOC battery, thus the cell voltages in the lower SOC battery will never reach high enough to allow cell balancing. Having this device balance the two 12V batteries out solves that problem.
@@LithiumSolar I made the same comment, near the end of the video the way you state some things sounds like you got them confused.
@@5400bowen I don't have any bit of this confused. I'm sorry if some part of the video made it sound confusing.
@@LithiumSolar No sweat, I am hoping to use my advanced language skills to help you improve if you are open to improvement. I know you know your stuff, or I would say otherwise directly. So…are there LiFePo batteries that have more than one string of cells in it? Or are all of them a single series chain of cells?
This is Victron item could be a lot better. But of course it was then it would cost $290 like everything else.
#teamferrules
Yes👍🔋⚡
Wasting energy from batteries, that has more voltage as the other, is not that great. better would be, to take that energy and put it in the lower voltage battery
No. The additional cost, complexity, and points of failure to save what amounts to a few watt-hours is absurd.
👍👍
I have 400 of them to sell in 30$ each
I had no idea this device existed. I have 4 100Ah BB lithiums connected in parallel.. so I don't need it.
🤓🖖👍✌👌😎