I agree that most people don't care about the bottom of their tanks, I for example print bases for my tanks..... But I absolutely understand people getting mad about the super expensive model kit they bought, when they find out its not even a complete tank. A missing bottom is just a thing that should not happen in this price range.
So I heard keeping the kit 3 sprues would allow to contain the price, so this are the prices in Euros Impulsor 62,50 - Gladiator,Repulsor 67,50 - Rogal Dorn 70 - Repulsor Executioner 85,00 I don't own either of those kits, but to me seems Dorn should be compared with Gladiator/Repulsor, plus 2,50 euros as a 'new kit tax'/inflation?
@@BonusHole I try to explain better my point in a teoretical perspective, at the end I'll add my personal take to the actual prices: I don't have the kits to compare, but from what i get, it seems the Dorn kit is actually well designed and it allows for the biggest vehicle and with a lot of bits, while still using 3 sprues. Assuming the price of 3 spues kits being 70 euros and 4 sprues being 85 euros (possibly 90 in the future), I'm personally content with the way they did it, I wouldn't really want it to be bigger and for a similar kit I get the 15 euros discount. Still, I'm not happy with GW prices overall, an even if I recently decided to try 1000 points of guard for the first time, after buying the army box last year I'll wait for a bundle until christmas, and even so I'm doing it only because of +25% off from my local discount dealer edited for typoes
Yeah I'm the one who paints everything and inside and underneath. I even painted the asses of skitarii troops, which were under robes, which were painted from the inside too. I don't even fully assembled minis just to get the paint perfect.
@@gerardmontgomery280 a sprue costs a few cents in materials. But it costs tens of thousands of dollars to make a plastic injection mould to product that sprue. You really want them to charge more for that?
@@Primaris_sucks Good paint brushes are 2-5$ a piece, fine sandpaper is cheap, you can buy artist acrylics and inks (cheaper than dedicated model paints), the best palette is a white, glazed ceramic plate from a hardware store I still have to find an alternative for flow improver in my country
Best idea I've seen for the Rogal Dorn is to have a bunch of Ogryn or Ork legs poking out the bottom and they're just Flintstoning it across the battlefield.
When I was a kid I thought it was dumb that the rhino had a paintable inside, when I was older I was outraged when the repulsor has much less detail inside. I think we’re the problem 😅
I follow an aircraft modeler and if apart is oversize, doesn`t fit or is plain wrong he changes it. All this wailing and gnashing of teeth, just for the sake of an piece of plastic card to fill the bottom is laughable!! I`m betting that many of these kits will be bought, and placed straight into a stash of unmade kits, and never built.
@@rutgaurxi7314 the scale model kits are typically sold in much higher numbers for longer. You can still find kits from the 50s and 60s in some cases and they are dirt cheap because the mould costs are long since paid for. Once a kit has paid for the tooling and research costs it could probably reduce in retail price, but typically doesn't due to profit.
@@bionicgeekgrrl I am sorry, but GW sells more kits. Furthermore tools get damaged when they are used so you will see a lot of retooling for popular kits (there is a website that shows when retooling happens, I think it's scalemate). If you also look at gundam kits you will see how overpriced GW is and how subpar the quality is. GW is just overpriced and lower quality.
In terms of newer 40k space marine models, I think that GW really should have had the pilots/gunners wearing phobos or some sort of lighter armour. It looks a little wierd having heavy infantry smushed into their seats barely able to reach the controls. If you put gunners on their tanks, they couldn't even fit through the hatch they're standing in.
At least in terms of the Invictor and Impulsor those marines are wearing Phobos armour, and for Stormspeeders the pilots/gunners are wearing a mixture of Omnis and Phobos
The Sprues are the bottom! Make a cross section out of the line sprues and make plates from sprue goo. Its not an oppsie by gw, its an advanced model kit. :')
Hey, that hole in the bottom looks really useful. You pop it in that tamiya painting holder and it holds, like the right side up. From the scale model builders perspective the WH tanks are really 'meh' kind of model: No interior, no working tracks, even the wheels are all molded-in, so no working suspension, and cost a ton. If WH tanks had proper road wheels and tracks I would definitely build one just to make it RC, with sound and smoke.
The real issue with the missing bottom is, that you can clearly see through the vents above the engine right to the ground. Can easily be fixed (even having a visible empty tank with bottom would be a bit annoying), but then on the other hand, they´re selling it not only to people who are into scale modelling or already experienced with GW kits....
The Rogal Dorn tank looks great from damn near every angle. Your theory sounds pretty reasonable to me. Better than mine. I thought they left the bottom off so you flip is over between matches and use it as an ashtray or you could use it to store your dice.
The idea that most people don't paint the bottom of their tanks is huge news to me lol. It's never occured to me not to, I would feel so WEIRD leaving part of a model unpainted. So yeah, I personally hate the hole
Well, when I was a Tank Commander in the US Army, the actual tanks were painted on the bottom. But just base color, no camouflage. So that's what I do with my 40K tanks.
Yeah like people say "you'll never see the bottom of the tank" but you... Do. Every time it's being set up and taken off the table. When it's going up a slope. When it's being lifted up off the table. It'd just bug the hell out of me. It reminds me of say, hiring a painter to paint the walls of your house but they don't paint behind the furniture because it'll be "mostly unseen". Cmon, finish the job.
The hole in the bottom is so you can do some trojan horse style sneak attacks and just pilot the tank out and all the cadians can sneak out from the bottom.
11:30 good point but comsumers do care just ask any other model maker like Bandai in Gunpla or scale models or any other TT mini maker about what happens when they leave out parts like this... It's just GW took a risk that their consumer won't care which you do seem to be right about.
The only reason I still bought tanks vs printing them was the joy of assembling them. So I'll 3d print a better 40k tank, and assemble tamiya I guess. They still make proper kits.
🎶I was just a paintin’ lad Thought I knew good minis from bad Then I saw that tank without a bottom plate Wanted to paint a Rogal Dorn But now my heart is torn Hey Games Workshop, you’ve made a bad painter out of me I've been paintin’ minis by hand Based with PVA glue and sand I’ve seen every blue Space Marine along the way But I’ve never seen a tank Without a bottom plank And I hope this is the last time that I do Oh, wanted to take it home tonight Oh, wanted to paint it up just right Oh, was gonna give it all I’ve got No bottom tanks You make the painting world go mad No bottom tanks You make the painting world go mad🎶
Simply put the tank crew under the tank, y’know, as a surprise. Hell they could even have a rule that when it dies some of the crew survives and can act as some guardsmen infantry. Then all you do is put the guys under the tank and the hole becomes a feature
Thing with the speeders and bikes and stuff for spacemarines in my opinion is. If you are a space marine giga chad, fighting another space marine giga chad, your ability to chad becomes rather irrelevant. This means other means will be needed in addition to it. And even in 40k, as you said, SM generally only fight if they are needed, meaning chaos demons or SM, which then again brings us to the point that chad vs chad doesn't help meaning you need additional means which give you an edge. While yes if a SM would fight a chaos guard hjeavy equipment seems weird and most likely would not needed - in universe that doesn't happen that often.
The using the interior for storage is something I did with my Baneblades. I set the whole lid up to be removable, and I can tuck all the guns and sponsons inside. (Chimeras too) so that they take up less space in my boxes.
Thank you, since the days of Rogue Trader I always had an issue with space marines in support roles like being vehicle drivers. I will say there are some situations and vehicles that work example: speeders, but things like Rhinos... Either operated by Imperial Guard or perhaps make a new level of Space Marines with less armor.
I view the hole on the bottom of the tank as an opportunity to store the spare sponsions/alternate weapons for ease of transportation (assuming you magnetize).
The random spru I belive your talking about is the Apoc V1 command tank spru, it was designed to allow players to designate 1 tank in a group to be a squad lead when Squads of vehicales where taken in Apoc formations.
And just like you said time being the most valuable resource. If you're contracted with a box vendor for a specific sized carton and on a commitment for 250,000 boxes you're locked in to making sure everything can fit into that box. So if it meant cutting a sprue or restarting the carton from scratch...cut the sprue. Plus if cutting a sprue means a 20 cent savings multiplied by 250K...that adds up too.
I think you are right with your theory about the reason why the Rogal Dorn tank has no bottom. I don't really care, but I can understand others that they want it to be complete. I once saw somebody who made a Razorback remote controlled with functional tracks. Maybe this would be a nice project to fill the gap and make the tank really moving around the table! :) - "tank with bottom" xD thats a good one!
23:15 that's what (in my history of art clases) they called "hierarcal perspective", present since egypt. They painted important characters bigger so the people (usually illiterate) notice them easier. So are the primaris lieutenants in a very big table lol
Would've made sense to put the decorative extras (stowage, sandbags, tow cables etc) on a separate sprue. Then they could put it in with other kits too.
The vehicle upgrade kit sprue seems like it would be great for ork players, it would be even funnier if someone made a blood raven terminator using the bottom of the tank as a storm shield
I feel like space Marines in vehicles make sense in terms of increasing their mobility but I see what your saying about them already wearing power armor but I feel like even more speed and mobility from bikers etc makes sense
In a perfect world, 4th Sprue, bottom piece + extra options, bump it up to $100, perfect. In our real world, I think this decision was the best decision. I don't care that much about the extra sprue piece, it's honestly better (aesthetically, functionally, thematically) than an Executioner, but it's cheaper and meant for Guard (a relatively very costly army to build) while still being cheaper! I feel like a $90 tank should come with a bottom piece, it just makes sense! However, I honestly am so happy with the model and everything else that all the missing bottom piece did was just make me go from "hmmm this model is a 9.5/10" down to a "no bottom piece, eh, 8.9/10, you just missed getting an A GW". I will expect bottom piece in the future, but for now, I'm perfectly fine and happy with this decision. :)
About space marine in vehicles it makes more sense if you consider the strength of the space marine is his anatomy not his gear. A simple human auxiliary riding this jetbike will crash in the first wall because he doesn't have the capacity to pilot it
If you look at one of the Kharadron Overlords flyers you will notice a giant hole in one of the balloons where there is a missing bit. For some reason they released the kit without it leaving a large glaring hold. Once you see it you can't unsee it.
I know exactly what you mean about Space Marine vehicles. I always felt it would make more sense for Rhinos, Land Raiders etc. to be driven by Chapter serfs, or perhaps new initiates (Scout equivalents) rather than full blown Space Marines. That said, I don't feel it with bikes since Bikes are basically Space Marine cavalry: they fight in melee, are open to the elements (so armour is still important) etc.
There is a reason they dont trust other to drive or use gunner position. For example for serfs which i supposs you mean servitors they don't trust them enough to leave them at those positions.
Only time I would say a bottom is wanted, would be if you flip it over for like a diorama for a titan or something, or like if it was a hover craft that’s jumping off a ramp
I just had a master stroke idea! You could probably fit the old lego train block up in that hole and have a remote controlled Rogal Dorn tank.....on a short cable.....that can't turn.....
@@alexcrowl I ran some estimate costs for that piece alone and they could make about 32,000 of the tank bottoms for roughly $1,587 (Per ton) if they just make a one ounce thin square. Which works out to $0.04959375 (5 cents) per piece. (Materials cost only, not factoring in manpower/utility's). They have no good excuse aside from "Meh"
i think the real question is would people prefer a smallish flat piece of plastic with some grooves on or some extra bonus cool things to put on your tank or use in kitbashes, i just dont see a missing square att the bottom of the tank as an issue, it certainly doesnt bother anyone else in a wargaming hobby that also has no plate at the bottom of their tanks, i think looking at thistorical tanks, having the bottom piece adds to the structural integrity, I dont ahve one, but from what i have heard and see online, the Rogal Dorn doesnt need it to keep the build stable. I think the biggest problem is that the community doesnt seem to be able to go 24 hours with raging about some "perceived slight" from GW, like there are no bigger problems in the world, hell there are bigger problems to discuss within the hobby, a "missing" plate is not it
also, if you want to get some insights intocorporate GW, watch some of the vlogs on The Painting Phase, with Peachy, now he's left GW, theres some interesting things to be heard.
... But if the bottom is missing, you can put units riding that vehicle under the vehicle and slide the vehicle to move everything, then lift it up when the troops disembark :3
I'm putting together my Rogal Dorn right now, I definitely think it was a compromise because of space. The kit is really nice otherwise, and the new vehicle transfer sheet is great. The hole is a bit disappointing because it makes it seem more like a cheap plastic tank in a toy soldier playset (and it definitely aint cheap!) I'd prefer to have a whole tank, but if it came between having a bottom and having all the cool details and extra bits, i'd say loose the bottom too. Maybe they'll update the kid eventually.
Frankly, I don't see why people are upset. I'm perfectly happy to see this 40K-Flintstones crossover! :D Seriously, though, my sympathies to the folks who bought a kit designed to be missing a piece. Not fun.
@EonsofBattle I almost bought your excuse for GW not putting a 4th sprue in for the Rogal Dorn tank, but then it hit me... If they were taking all these tank parts and trying to figure out how to fit them on 3 sprues and couldn't get them to fit and decided "not to go back to the drawing board and start all over" then why not just make the 4th sprue? If they are/were still in the stage of figuring out how to make things fit on sprues, its not like they'd have a bunch of the 3 sprues already made that they'd have to junk. Just send 4 files instead of 3 to the factory. It's not like the box would need to be bigger to fit that 4th sprue. There is room in there for another sprue.
It could also be a factor of what fits on the injection molding plate. The three sprues probably had no room left to put that part. Injection molding plates cost a mint and a half.
I understand both sides of the tank bottom debacle, it doesn’t affect me in any way though because I don’t play Warhammer, I still watch every video though.
Surely the hole in the bottom is for smoke effects so you can tip it on the side when its destroyed..! Also given how wide spread 3d printing, making a part to fit the gap that you will never see isn't a big deal.. Lots of GW vehicle kits of the past have bits missing where you can't see them.. I don't think any kit comes with a full tread for the tank?
One of the things about the Dorn Tank is that if it had a bottom nothing would be said about it, because its expected all tanks have a bottom, but due to that bottom missing everyone speaks out about it
Not sure how all this pans out in big picture, but my 1995 Rhino has two plasticard sections in the bottom - matching the doors on the top of the model. I don't recall damaging the parts or losing them, so my guess is that the design had gaps at the time as well. It did bug me so I covered that area, but it is no big deal and I just cut a bit of plastic to cover it. May not even have been plasticard, may have been the lid of a food container.
Ive heard some rumors about expectations of people not painting or priming the inside, so they can turn your tank over, or look through windows to see game mat or nothing underneath, to check if you have a 3d printed one instead.... Gonna backfire because people are printing and buying bottoms for their official tanks
I'm not wild about jet bikes, or any anti grav tech for Imperium, but I will say, the one thing I really love that Primaris brought was the outriders. That feels appropriate to a space marine vs the old dirt bikes they had.
I think I might be as simple as “if we leave this piece missing, that most people won’t even see anyway, we can save X amount of money per year in plastic consumption “
My 40k story of the week. I was building the Canis Rex and noticed that the right arm was in the wrong position, so when trying to reattach after dissemble and re gluing it popped out of the socket and broke into three pieces. (Basically 90, 96 and the rest of the arm). I just spent the last two and a half hours looking for piece 96 as it managed to fly off and land behind a bunch of boxes underneath my computer workstation which is behind and to the right of my painting station. Everything else was on the floor in front of my paint and assembly table. Is this the work of chaos
I think the jet bike is the coolest space marine cavalry yet, but it shares the same issue for me that they all do and I finally figured it out: if they had mid or rear foot controls and a more aggressive forward riding position, they’d look great! They are all, to a one, sitting way back like fat Harley grandpas. Bad.
I make things for a living. In this case its not time, for such a simple mold 3-4 sprue will be related to tooling cost vs financials… adding more sprues doesn’t take months. They probably showed a 3 sprue option and a 4 sprue option and decided from there based on margin.
As a new player, the only thing that bugs me is the barriers to entry. Core book, codex and chapter supplement is needed to even think of building deployable detachments. They did the same with Kill Team, where a plethora of supplements are needed to properly plan.
Onepagerules is better for new players, it has a much lower bar for entry. It's also generly more simple and better paced, making it easier to recruit people.
I think you made a good point when you said they needed to release it with the hole rather than take the time to re-engineer, because it is the centrepiece model of this release. Then again there is the issue, it is the centrepiece model, if someone is going to spend time and get emotionally attached to a mini, it will be this one, if a friend takes a look at your collection and picks up one of your tanks to inspect, it will be this one, this will be the tank at the front of your glass display cabinet, not hiding at the back. I feel they got themselves in a catch 22 situation, I will be building mine with a floorplate, but my excitement for the mini has dropped so will not be buying one for now, going to focus on the new rough riders for my light infantry and ordinance batteries for my heavy infantry first.
I did plan on buying one, but I would have wanted to make a bottom for it. Since the chain axes I printed for my Flesh Tearers made them illegal to play in a GWS sponsored event, I am sure that printing a bottom would make the Rogal Dorn also not 100% GWS parts and illegal to use too. It just made me decide not to buy one at all and to print one of the various "tanks with bottom". In for a penny, in for a pound.
Wouldn't say it's the end of the world, but GW should have put the bottom panel in the kit since they market themselves as high end model kit makers. I think it's a good thing a lot of people are complaining. If GW is gonna cheap out on the kit, they should cheap out on the price but won't.
well those Space Marine jetbikes look nothing like the old white metal alloy versions from decades ago - I might want to get these just to put the Escher jet bikers on!
18:21 I believe the correct choice would have been include the bottom so ou'll get a whole tank and not a puppet and make the upardes a separate prchase.
If they go the upgrade sprue to give an option to fill the gap on the tank, maybe they could provide an upgrade that replaces the entire bottom section of the tank with a unique design so it feels like a more worth-while purchase? 🤔
I agree that most people don't care about the bottom of their tanks, I for example print bases for my tanks.....
But I absolutely understand people getting mad about the super expensive model kit they bought, when they find out its not even a complete tank. A missing bottom is just a thing that should not happen in this price range.
So I heard keeping the kit 3 sprues would allow to contain the price, so this are the prices in Euros
Impulsor 62,50 - Gladiator,Repulsor 67,50 - Rogal Dorn 70 - Repulsor Executioner 85,00
I don't own either of those kits, but to me seems Dorn should be compared with Gladiator/Repulsor, plus 2,50 euros as a 'new kit tax'/inflation?
@@BonusHole yeah you're talking about 5 pence worth of material on their end.
@@BonusHole I try to explain better my point in a teoretical perspective, at the end I'll add my personal take to the actual prices: I don't have the kits to compare, but from what i get, it seems the Dorn kit is actually well designed and it allows for the biggest vehicle and with a lot of bits, while still using 3 sprues. Assuming the price of 3 spues kits being 70 euros and 4 sprues being 85 euros (possibly 90 in the future), I'm personally content with the way they did it, I wouldn't really want it to be bigger and for a similar kit I get the 15 euros discount.
Still, I'm not happy with GW prices overall, an even if I recently decided to try 1000 points of guard for the first time, after buying the army box last year I'll wait for a bundle until christmas, and even so I'm doing it only because of +25% off from my local discount dealer
edited for typoes
Yeah I'm the one who paints everything and inside and underneath. I even painted the asses of skitarii troops, which were under robes, which were painted from the inside too.
I don't even fully assembled minis just to get the paint perfect.
@@gerardmontgomery280 a sprue costs a few cents in materials. But it costs tens of thousands of dollars to make a plastic injection mould to product that sprue. You really want them to charge more for that?
The hole on the bottom is for shoulder mounting the tank onto emperor class titans 😂
It's to Fred Flintstone the tank
@@bagel_guy9495 oh no, something that would usually be impassable. Let's just lift the tank and walk 😂
Its for ogryns to extract it and run with it as a battering ram.
how dare you give me this idea
No, the titan wears it like a hat.
Tank Commander: crew initiate emergency brakes!
Crew: *kicking their feet straight in the ground like a Flintstones car*
I saw a video where someone literally used the Flintstones vehicles to explain the gap!
Jay: *paints some of the best looking models I've seen*
Also Jay: They're fine
@@Primaris_sucks practice and tools
@@Primaris_sucks 'builds terrain from trash'...😉
@@Primaris_sucks gonna be hard without money
@@klyk69 Don't forget life as well like going to work and that
@@Primaris_sucks Good paint brushes are 2-5$ a piece, fine sandpaper is cheap, you can buy artist acrylics and inks (cheaper than dedicated model paints), the best palette is a white, glazed ceramic plate from a hardware store
I still have to find an alternative for flow improver in my country
Best idea I've seen for the Rogal Dorn is to have a bunch of Ogryn or Ork legs poking out the bottom and they're just Flintstoning it across the battlefield.
YES!
Awesome!
When I was a kid I thought it was dumb that the rhino had a paintable inside, when I was older I was outraged when the repulsor has much less detail inside. I think we’re the problem 😅
GW is the problem, look at scale kits from other manufacturers. They not only provide more detailed models, but usually cheaper as well.
@@rutgaurxi7314 Well said.
I follow an aircraft modeler and if apart is oversize, doesn`t fit or is plain wrong he changes it. All this wailing and gnashing of teeth, just for the sake of an piece of plastic card to fill the bottom is laughable!! I`m betting that many of these kits will be bought, and placed straight into a stash of unmade kits, and never built.
@@rutgaurxi7314 the scale model kits are typically sold in much higher numbers for longer. You can still find kits from the 50s and 60s in some cases and they are dirt cheap because the mould costs are long since paid for. Once a kit has paid for the tooling and research costs it could probably reduce in retail price, but typically doesn't due to profit.
@@bionicgeekgrrl I am sorry, but GW sells more kits. Furthermore tools get damaged when they are used so you will see a lot of retooling for popular kits (there is a website that shows when retooling happens, I think it's scalemate).
If you also look at gundam kits you will see how overpriced GW is and how subpar the quality is.
GW is just overpriced and lower quality.
The hole in the bottom is foreshadowing the Primarch Power Rangers super robot featuring a Rogal Dorn tank as the hat.
In terms of newer 40k space marine models, I think that GW really should have had the pilots/gunners wearing phobos or some sort of lighter armour. It looks a little wierd having heavy infantry smushed into their seats barely able to reach the controls. If you put gunners on their tanks, they couldn't even fit through the hatch they're standing in.
A scout type unit would be perfect on those things
Yeah, the drivers should probably be scouts.
At least in terms of the Invictor and Impulsor those marines are wearing Phobos armour, and for Stormspeeders the pilots/gunners are wearing a mixture of Omnis and Phobos
The Sprues are the bottom! Make a cross section out of the line sprues and make plates from sprue goo.
Its not an oppsie by gw, its an advanced model kit. :')
Yeah, I mean this is exactly what I would do
Imagine in court, GW lawyer - 'your honor my client would like to plead "oppsie daisies"
You are right! =)
Hey, that hole in the bottom looks really useful. You pop it in that tamiya painting holder and it holds, like the right side up.
From the scale model builders perspective the WH tanks are really 'meh' kind of model: No interior, no working tracks, even the wheels are all molded-in, so no working suspension, and cost a ton.
If WH tanks had proper road wheels and tracks I would definitely build one just to make it RC, with sound and smoke.
I did find an STL file of a "Rogal Dorn" while searching "Tank with bottom" on google! Thanks Jay!
I believe it was Queen who once sang "No bottom tanks, they make the gaming world go meh" .
@Dustin Gore 🤣🤣
The space marine range is designed after the 'Bowser in Mario Kart' aesthetic
The real issue with the missing bottom is, that you can clearly see through the vents above the engine right to the ground. Can easily be fixed (even having a visible empty tank with bottom would be a bit annoying), but then on the other hand, they´re selling it not only to people who are into scale modelling or already experienced with GW kits....
The Rogal Dorn tank looks great from damn near every angle. Your theory sounds pretty reasonable to me. Better than mine. I thought they left the bottom off so you flip is over between matches and use it as an ashtray or you could use it to store your dice.
The idea that most people don't paint the bottom of their tanks is huge news to me lol. It's never occured to me not to, I would feel so WEIRD leaving part of a model unpainted. So yeah, I personally hate the hole
Well, when I was a Tank Commander in the US Army, the actual tanks were painted on the bottom. But just base color, no camouflage. So that's what I do with my 40K tanks.
Yeah like people say "you'll never see the bottom of the tank" but you... Do. Every time it's being set up and taken off the table. When it's going up a slope. When it's being lifted up off the table. It'd just bug the hell out of me.
It reminds me of say, hiring a painter to paint the walls of your house but they don't paint behind the furniture because it'll be "mostly unseen". Cmon, finish the job.
The hole in the bottom is so you can do some trojan horse style sneak attacks and just pilot the tank out and all the cadians can sneak out from the bottom.
For Star Wars Legion you can always use the 501st costume reference library. It's super helpful.
The 3D print community will have a tank bottom in no time, I wager.
It can be fixed with plasticard, it shouldn't have to be, however.
That's what we're here for!
The 3D print community is just going to give us an actual finished tank lol.
The 3d printing community has proposed it for weeks now, be it payed or free.
and then you cant bring the tank to any official tournament anymore.
I loved this week's "How?" really optimistic and curious this time around.
11:30 good point but comsumers do care just ask any other model maker like Bandai in Gunpla or scale models or any other TT mini maker about what happens when they leave out parts like this... It's just GW took a risk that their consumer won't care which you do seem to be right about.
The Rogal Dorn tank, hear me out: teeny tiny RC car that fits inside the gap.
The only reason I still bought tanks vs printing them was the joy of assembling them. So I'll 3d print a better 40k tank, and assemble tamiya I guess. They still make proper kits.
"I don't care about the bottom" is definitely not something to put on the grindr
🎶I was just a paintin’ lad
Thought I knew good minis from bad
Then I saw that tank without a bottom plate
Wanted to paint a Rogal Dorn
But now my heart is torn
Hey Games Workshop, you’ve made a bad painter out of me
I've been paintin’ minis by hand
Based with PVA glue and sand
I’ve seen every blue Space Marine along the way
But I’ve never seen a tank
Without a bottom plank
And I hope this is the last time that I do
Oh, wanted to take it home tonight
Oh, wanted to paint it up just right
Oh, was gonna give it all I’ve got
No bottom tanks
You make the painting world go mad
No bottom tanks
You make the painting world go mad🎶
Simply put the tank crew under the tank, y’know, as a surprise. Hell they could even have a rule that when it dies some of the crew survives and can act as some guardsmen infantry. Then all you do is put the guys under the tank and the hole becomes a feature
I think Kirioth nailed it. It's a Flintstone inspired vehicle, and is powered by guardsmen running underneath the tank.
Oh YES! That is the Energiwende!
The hole is for you to collect 4 other imperium tanks and make the Emperor’s Megazord
I'll have to look for a rogal dorn bottom STL before mine arrives.
Your Royal Guard look fantastic! The basing does complete the look and compliments the excellent paint job.
Thing with the speeders and bikes and stuff for spacemarines in my opinion is.
If you are a space marine giga chad, fighting another space marine giga chad, your ability to chad becomes rather irrelevant.
This means other means will be needed in addition to it.
And even in 40k, as you said, SM generally only fight if they are needed, meaning chaos demons or SM, which then again brings us to the point that chad vs chad doesn't help meaning you need additional means which give you an edge.
While yes if a SM would fight a chaos guard hjeavy equipment seems weird and most likely would not needed - in universe that doesn't happen that often.
The using the interior for storage is something I did with my Baneblades. I set the whole lid up to be removable, and I can tuck all the guns and sponsons inside. (Chimeras too) so that they take up less space in my boxes.
Thank you, since the days of Rogue Trader I always had an issue with space marines in support roles like being vehicle drivers. I will say there are some situations and vehicles that work example: speeders, but things like Rhinos... Either operated by Imperial Guard or perhaps make a new level of Space Marines with less armor.
I view the hole on the bottom of the tank as an opportunity to store the spare sponsions/alternate weapons for ease of transportation (assuming you magnetize).
The random spru I belive your talking about is the Apoc V1 command tank spru, it was designed to allow players to designate 1 tank in a group to be a squad lead when Squads of vehicales where taken in Apoc formations.
And just like you said time being the most valuable resource. If you're contracted with a box vendor for a specific sized carton and on a commitment for 250,000 boxes you're locked in to making sure everything can fit into that box. So if it meant cutting a sprue or restarting the carton from scratch...cut the sprue. Plus if cutting a sprue means a 20 cent savings multiplied by 250K...that adds up too.
I think you are right with your theory about the reason why the Rogal Dorn tank has no bottom. I don't really care, but I can understand others that they want it to be complete. I once saw somebody who made a Razorback remote controlled with functional tracks. Maybe this would be a nice project to fill the gap and make the tank really moving around the table! :) - "tank with bottom" xD thats a good one!
23:15 that's what (in my history of art clases) they called "hierarcal perspective", present since egypt. They painted important characters bigger so the people (usually illiterate) notice them easier. So are the primaris lieutenants in a very big table lol
I think the reason is simpler, it saves a few cents in production
Wow, these imperial guards looking awesome 👏🏻
Would've made sense to put the decorative extras (stowage, sandbags, tow cables etc) on a separate sprue. Then they could put it in with other kits too.
The vehicle upgrade kit sprue seems like it would be great for ork players, it would be even funnier if someone made a blood raven terminator using the bottom of the tank as a storm shield
Oh I get it
Those 30k bikes look like a mashup between Star Wars and Bioshock. (Disclaimer: I’m not complaining)
Thank you Jay, your videos are like talking to my son who I rarely see. ❤
I feel like space Marines in vehicles make sense in terms of increasing their mobility but I see what your saying about them already wearing power armor but I feel like even more speed and mobility from bikers etc makes sense
In a perfect world, 4th Sprue, bottom piece + extra options, bump it up to $100, perfect.
In our real world, I think this decision was the best decision. I don't care that much about the extra sprue piece, it's honestly better (aesthetically, functionally, thematically) than an Executioner, but it's cheaper and meant for Guard (a relatively very costly army to build) while still being cheaper!
I feel like a $90 tank should come with a bottom piece, it just makes sense! However, I honestly am so happy with the model and everything else that all the missing bottom piece did was just make me go from "hmmm this model is a 9.5/10" down to a "no bottom piece, eh, 8.9/10, you just missed getting an A GW".
I will expect bottom piece in the future, but for now, I'm perfectly fine and happy with this decision. :)
About space marine in vehicles it makes more sense if you consider the strength of the space marine is his anatomy not his gear. A simple human auxiliary riding this jetbike will crash in the first wall because he doesn't have the capacity to pilot it
If you look at one of the Kharadron Overlords flyers you will notice a giant hole in one of the balloons where there is a missing bit. For some reason they released the kit without it leaving a large glaring hold. Once you see it you can't unsee it.
I know exactly what you mean about Space Marine vehicles. I always felt it would make more sense for Rhinos, Land Raiders etc. to be driven by Chapter serfs, or perhaps new initiates (Scout equivalents) rather than full blown Space Marines. That said, I don't feel it with bikes since Bikes are basically Space Marine cavalry: they fight in melee, are open to the elements (so armour is still important) etc.
There is a reason they dont trust other to drive or use gunner position. For example for serfs which i supposs you mean servitors they don't trust them enough to leave them at those positions.
Only time I would say a bottom is wanted, would be if you flip it over for like a diorama for a titan or something, or like if it was a hover craft that’s jumping off a ramp
Man....that's the entry hatch...or it's symbolic....Dorn lost a hand....the tank lost it's bottom
The up side to the hole in the bottom of the rogal dorn is you could stick a little RC wheel mechanism into the space and BOOM! RC 40k model.
I just had a master stroke idea! You could probably fit the old lego train block up in that hole and have a remote controlled Rogal Dorn tank.....on a short cable.....that can't turn.....
Considering GW pricing, that bottom would have cost another $5-10
The point is a premium model that costs $80-90 USD should be complete.
@@alexcrowl I ran some estimate costs for that piece alone and they could make about 32,000 of the tank bottoms for roughly $1,587 (Per ton) if they just make a one ounce thin square. Which works out to $0.04959375 (5 cents) per piece. (Materials cost only, not factoring in manpower/utility's).
They have no good excuse aside from "Meh"
@@TheDigitalThreat Their excuse is "We would make 2 less dollars per kit on this 90 dollar kit, and we can't have that!"
i think the real question is would people prefer a smallish flat piece of plastic with some grooves on or some extra bonus cool things to put on your tank or use in kitbashes, i just dont see a missing square att the bottom of the tank as an issue, it certainly doesnt bother anyone else in a wargaming hobby that also has no plate at the bottom of their tanks, i think looking at thistorical tanks, having the bottom piece adds to the structural integrity, I dont ahve one, but from what i have heard and see online, the Rogal Dorn doesnt need it to keep the build stable. I think the biggest problem is that the community doesnt seem to be able to go 24 hours with raging about some "perceived slight" from GW, like there are no bigger problems in the world, hell there are bigger problems to discuss within the hobby, a "missing" plate is not it
also, if you want to get some insights intocorporate GW, watch some of the vlogs on The Painting Phase, with Peachy, now he's left GW, theres some interesting things to be heard.
... But if the bottom is missing, you can put units riding that vehicle under the vehicle and slide the vehicle to move everything, then lift it up when the troops disembark :3
I'm putting together my Rogal Dorn right now, I definitely think it was a compromise because of space. The kit is really nice otherwise, and the new vehicle transfer sheet is great. The hole is a bit disappointing because it makes it seem more like a cheap plastic tank in a toy soldier playset (and it definitely aint cheap!) I'd prefer to have a whole tank, but if it came between having a bottom and having all the cool details and extra bits, i'd say loose the bottom too. Maybe they'll update the kid eventually.
It is cool if GW sell a separate engine/ motorize kit fitting on the missing plate
Should be provided as standard.
almost 100!!!!!! way to go! loved the video
Would have been nice if turret popped off to reveal detailed crew compartment.
I don't think people REALLY care, but it's still fun to poke the bear over it, and take part in the silliness/controversy.
Ooh man those Star Wars mini's look great. Urge to buy a rebel army rising.
Don't forget Dark Angels for the Scimitar Jetbikes, the Ravenwing Knights need their horses, and we got no super space horses.
Frankly, I don't see why people are upset. I'm perfectly happy to see this 40K-Flintstones crossover! :D
Seriously, though, my sympathies to the folks who bought a kit designed to be missing a piece. Not fun.
I've been asked to print off 5 base plates for the dorn tank so far by my 40K friends so i think people aren't happy with it
@EonsofBattle I almost bought your excuse for GW not putting a 4th sprue in for the Rogal Dorn tank, but then it hit me... If they were taking all these tank parts and trying to figure out how to fit them on 3 sprues and couldn't get them to fit and decided "not to go back to the drawing board and start all over" then why not just make the 4th sprue? If they are/were still in the stage of figuring out how to make things fit on sprues, its not like they'd have a bunch of the 3 sprues already made that they'd have to junk. Just send 4 files instead of 3 to the factory. It's not like the box would need to be bigger to fit that 4th sprue. There is room in there for another sprue.
News just in, increasing costs by a quarter is no big deal for an already greedy company
Nothing to do with my point.
Thanks for the video.
You should take the leg chassis from the triarch stalker and mount the Dorn to that; use it in your Necron army.
It could also be a factor of what fits on the injection molding plate. The three sprues probably had no room left to put that part. Injection molding plates cost a mint and a half.
I understand both sides of the tank bottom debacle, it doesn’t affect me in any way though because I don’t play Warhammer, I still watch every video though.
=))
Surely the hole in the bottom is for smoke effects so you can tip it on the side when its destroyed..! Also given how wide spread 3d printing, making a part to fit the gap that you will never see isn't a big deal.. Lots of GW vehicle kits of the past have bits missing where you can't see them.. I don't think any kit comes with a full tread for the tank?
I sometimes turn tanks upside down and leave them on the board for natative games simulating exploded vehicles providing cover for the infantry.
AND here the buttom is already explodet NOW it make sense? Tankplayer REMove your bottoms! NOW! =))
Well now you just have a spot for a smoke plume
One of the things about the Dorn Tank is that if it had a bottom nothing would be said about it, because its expected all tanks have a bottom, but due to that bottom missing everyone speaks out about it
However the AdMech Dunerider, Ork Battlewagon, and Marines Invader ATV are all missing bottom panels and basically no one ever brought those up
@@FoolyJooly Whataboutism at its finest. Instead of attacking other hobbyists, just rant at your bathroom mirror.
Not sure how all this pans out in big picture, but my 1995 Rhino has two plasticard sections in the bottom - matching the doors on the top of the model. I don't recall damaging the parts or losing them, so my guess is that the design had gaps at the time as well.
It did bug me so I covered that area, but it is no big deal and I just cut a bit of plastic to cover it. May not even have been plasticard, may have been the lid of a food container.
Ive heard some rumors about expectations of people not painting or priming the inside, so they can turn your tank over, or look through windows to see game mat or nothing underneath, to check if you have a 3d printed one instead.... Gonna backfire because people are printing and buying bottoms for their official tanks
I'm not wild about jet bikes, or any anti grav tech for Imperium, but I will say, the one thing I really love that Primaris brought was the outriders. That feels appropriate to a space marine vs the old dirt bikes they had.
Im gonna buy so many fuckin jet bikes you can call me Amelia Earhart
it's not the first time, the admech hovercraft didn't have a bottom either, and we had a grumble about that too, but nobody remembers.
I think I might be as simple as “if we leave this piece missing, that most people won’t even see anyway, we can save X amount of money per year in plastic consumption “
The real reason is because Royal Dorn is strictly a top
You made great work with this red Empire guys 👍
you can put a small RC toy in there and make your Regal Dorn move around the battlefield
Ok if You findout what fit i Buy it
My 40k story of the week. I was building the Canis Rex and noticed that the right arm was in the wrong position, so when trying to reattach after dissemble and re gluing it popped out of the socket and broke into three pieces. (Basically 90, 96 and the rest of the arm). I just spent the last two and a half hours looking for piece 96 as it managed to fly off and land behind a bunch of boxes underneath my computer workstation which is behind and to the right of my painting station.
Everything else was on the floor in front of my paint and assembly table.
Is this the work of chaos
Tzeentch: “Just as PLANNED!”
Love how much time was spent on lego
yeah, the red dudes are interesting. Probably hard to put a personal spin on a Vader mini. Focusing on the base sounds like a good choice.
I think the jet bike is the coolest space marine cavalry yet, but it shares the same issue for me that they all do and I finally figured it out: if they had mid or rear foot controls and a more aggressive forward riding position, they’d look great! They are all, to a one, sitting way back like fat Harley grandpas. Bad.
I make things for a living. In this case its not time, for such a simple mold 3-4 sprue will be related to tooling cost vs financials… adding more sprues doesn’t take months. They probably showed a 3 sprue option and a 4 sprue option and decided from there based on margin.
I think it is useful as I magnetized mine and I store the extras inside the tank itself
As a new player, the only thing that bugs me is the barriers to entry.
Core book, codex and chapter supplement is needed to even think of building deployable detachments. They did the same with Kill Team, where a plethora of supplements are needed to properly plan.
Onepagerules is better for new players, it has a much lower bar for entry. It's also generly more simple and better paced, making it easier to recruit people.
I think you made a good point when you said they needed to release it with the hole rather than take the time to re-engineer, because it is the centrepiece model of this release.
Then again there is the issue, it is the centrepiece model, if someone is going to spend time and get emotionally attached to a mini, it will be this one, if a friend takes a look at your collection and picks up one of your tanks to inspect, it will be this one, this will be the tank at the front of your glass display cabinet, not hiding at the back.
I feel they got themselves in a catch 22 situation, I will be building mine with a floorplate, but my excitement for the mini has dropped so will not be buying one for now, going to focus on the new rough riders for my light infantry and ordinance batteries for my heavy infantry first.
If I ever get my hands on Rogal Dorn, I think I'd just glue some popsicle sticks into it and cover them with green stuff.
I did plan on buying one, but I would have wanted to make a bottom for it. Since the chain axes I printed for my Flesh Tearers made them illegal to play in a GWS sponsored event, I am sure that printing a bottom would make the Rogal Dorn also not 100% GWS parts and illegal to use too. It just made me decide not to buy one at all and to print one of the various "tanks with bottom". In for a penny, in for a pound.
Wouldn't say it's the end of the world, but GW should have put the bottom panel in the kit since they market themselves as high end model kit makers. I think it's a good thing a lot of people are complaining. If GW is gonna cheap out on the kit, they should cheap out on the price but won't.
Reminds me of the lord castellant? on gryph charger for the Stormcast models. Didn't have an underside or the gryph charger 🤣🤣
Yeah iron man wouldn’t make an armor suit that goes on top of his iron man suit or captain amurica wouldn’t ride a motorbike . You got a point .
well those Space Marine jetbikes look nothing like the old white metal alloy versions from decades ago - I might want to get these just to put the Escher jet bikers on!
Emperor Palpatine is one of my favorite models I've painted. His gross skin is rare in the star wars world have fun with it.
Exo force? You definitely have been thinking about lego 😂
The name you were looking for was inferno squad
18:21 I believe the correct choice would have been include the bottom so ou'll get a whole tank and not a puppet and make the upardes a separate prchase.
If they go the upgrade sprue to give an option to fill the gap on the tank, maybe they could provide an upgrade that replaces the entire bottom section of the tank with a unique design so it feels like a more worth-while purchase? 🤔
they should have just made a separate sprue with x amount of bottom plates take them off the sprue and just have a loose bottom plate in the boxes