Good video, but I have one major comment: you cant block during prejump in this game so if you always try to fuzzy jump for the low/hook mixup, darius can target the prejump frames with a slight delay on the first hit of s2, sort of like IB targetting in BB. I have tried it on a cpu set to all block and jump back out of block. That would then open up parry as an option to beat delayed s2/ hook. That would then lose to doing nothing. I think this game has a lot of these little 50/50s that are only 50/50s if both players know they're happening, which is probably not happening in an alpha
Yes it's true and in general the S2 in a blockstring has equal amount of situations he might be risking. Darius realistically has to assist cover his strings. Because that delay would lose to mash or maybe retreating guard, for sure parry.
For the hook: Darius can delay the command grab to react to the jump. That sounds like some weird precise thing, but I did it on accident. Someone braindead mashing isn't likely to do that. Someone going out of their way to not mash is very likely to do it (assuming they know about it). The only reason I know is that I did it first try on accident trying to record the combo (L > M > H > S1 > H) for the bot in training. Similar to your argument of "the hook is really easy to see coming", it's really easy to react to if they jumped or not. The slide is cool and works if you're not backed into the corner. But it resets neutral, and you're that much closer to the corner after. Not to mention that it has direct counter-play (he can hit the low like you showed) so you can't just always do it. Parry works always, but has super high damage scaling, so you're going to get like maybe 25-30% damage. And the reaction timing is tight before Darius can just block again since you have to close the gap some to begin your combo. Risk/reward isn't really great for this. You risk taking way more damage *and* losing meter. So basically hook counter-play is: Hope he doesn't delay his command grab even a tiny bit. Slide if you're not in the corner. Take a huge risk to get a tiny damage (relative to the damage you take if you mess up the parry) punish. Can't jump if they're not mashing. Can't slide if you're in corner. Biggest complaint people have for this character is how safely oppressive he is. This "counter-play" doesn't help. He's not spending meter to floor you halfway across the screen. You shouldn't have to spend meter to avoid it. For the Red Slash: You cover in the video why "just jump" isn't good, and the "just jump" when it does work disregards the down-side to taking chip and bleed damage. You can slide back out of (L > M > H > S2 > S2), but only if you slide *both* after H and after the first S2. This combo has a ton of knockback in block, so this is almost never applicable just because of how far this block-string pushes you back, but if you have the space to do it, you can avoid the bleed. You can parry, but he's so far away from the parry knockback that you cannot punish him. This is to his advantage, because a lot of the matchup is working on closing the gap to begin with. Again, the biggest complaint is how safely oppressive he is. The parry is a tight window. Even if you hit the few-frame skill check, your reward is getting to keep the maybe 5% of your health you would have lost to bleed damage. The *only* things above that lead to any type of punish due to outplay is if they're mashing and you jump the hook (which leads to a lot of damage, to be fair), or if you parry the hook (which leads to very little damage due to parry damage scaling). Games like this are very much 2-3 hit games (2-3 combos will kill). Darius is the only character I have no fun playing against because there is no punishment for him throwing attacks out across the screen, and I get punished for blocking his large attacks (due to both bleed and chip damage).
EDIT: If he delays the hook actions, you can jump again and avoid/block them all, which basically forces him to do hook into nothing to counter your jump. Also apparently Superjump completely avoids the hook. I did not know he could delay the grab! That definitely puts a wrinkle in things, good to know the starter counterplay regardless, but thanks for that info. I guess it means he maybe loses to jab or supers then? Not sure. Yes he can use the low, it's a low reward option, and it does whiff at some ranges as well. Parry on success refund the bar at least, so if you know it's coming, it's not a bad play. I get what you're saying though about how he is safely oppressive, but more the point of the video is to make Darius have to work a bit more for it and give players some agency, instead of rolling over saying chip my life away and throw me. I agree with everything you said, but I more am here to make people not feel helpless, you know? But I have a feeling he will get hit later on. The 27f on hook makes me think they just really don't want the player to even be put in that situation and find ways to not get there.
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Apparently, Superjump after his Heavy attack completely avoids the hook LOL!
Would love a darius guide now. Best buttons how to approach neutral etc.!
Copy, I've learned a lot since posting this already!
Good video, but I have one major comment: you cant block during prejump in this game so if you always try to fuzzy jump for the low/hook mixup, darius can target the prejump frames with a slight delay on the first hit of s2, sort of like IB targetting in BB. I have tried it on a cpu set to all block and jump back out of block.
That would then open up parry as an option to beat delayed s2/ hook. That would then lose to doing nothing.
I think this game has a lot of these little 50/50s that are only 50/50s if both players know they're happening, which is probably not happening in an alpha
Yes it's true and in general the S2 in a blockstring has equal amount of situations he might be risking. Darius realistically has to assist cover his strings. Because that delay would lose to mash or maybe retreating guard, for sure parry.
Alternative title : How to counter the one and only move everyone struggle with
For the hook:
Darius can delay the command grab to react to the jump. That sounds like some weird precise thing, but I did it on accident. Someone braindead mashing isn't likely to do that. Someone going out of their way to not mash is very likely to do it (assuming they know about it). The only reason I know is that I did it first try on accident trying to record the combo (L > M > H > S1 > H) for the bot in training. Similar to your argument of "the hook is really easy to see coming", it's really easy to react to if they jumped or not.
The slide is cool and works if you're not backed into the corner. But it resets neutral, and you're that much closer to the corner after. Not to mention that it has direct counter-play (he can hit the low like you showed) so you can't just always do it.
Parry works always, but has super high damage scaling, so you're going to get like maybe 25-30% damage. And the reaction timing is tight before Darius can just block again since you have to close the gap some to begin your combo. Risk/reward isn't really great for this. You risk taking way more damage *and* losing meter.
So basically hook counter-play is: Hope he doesn't delay his command grab even a tiny bit. Slide if you're not in the corner. Take a huge risk to get a tiny damage (relative to the damage you take if you mess up the parry) punish.
Can't jump if they're not mashing. Can't slide if you're in corner. Biggest complaint people have for this character is how safely oppressive he is. This "counter-play" doesn't help. He's not spending meter to floor you halfway across the screen. You shouldn't have to spend meter to avoid it.
For the Red Slash:
You cover in the video why "just jump" isn't good, and the "just jump" when it does work disregards the down-side to taking chip and bleed damage.
You can slide back out of (L > M > H > S2 > S2), but only if you slide *both* after H and after the first S2. This combo has a ton of knockback in block, so this is almost never applicable just because of how far this block-string pushes you back, but if you have the space to do it, you can avoid the bleed.
You can parry, but he's so far away from the parry knockback that you cannot punish him. This is to his advantage, because a lot of the matchup is working on closing the gap to begin with.
Again, the biggest complaint is how safely oppressive he is. The parry is a tight window. Even if you hit the few-frame skill check, your reward is getting to keep the maybe 5% of your health you would have lost to bleed damage.
The *only* things above that lead to any type of punish due to outplay is if they're mashing and you jump the hook (which leads to a lot of damage, to be fair), or if you parry the hook (which leads to very little damage due to parry damage scaling). Games like this are very much 2-3 hit games (2-3 combos will kill).
Darius is the only character I have no fun playing against because there is no punishment for him throwing attacks out across the screen, and I get punished for blocking his large attacks (due to both bleed and chip damage).
EDIT: If he delays the hook actions, you can jump again and avoid/block them all, which basically forces him to do hook into nothing to counter your jump. Also apparently Superjump completely avoids the hook.
I did not know he could delay the grab! That definitely puts a wrinkle in things, good to know the starter counterplay regardless, but thanks for that info. I guess it means he maybe loses to jab or supers then? Not sure. Yes he can use the low, it's a low reward option, and it does whiff at some ranges as well. Parry on success refund the bar at least, so if you know it's coming, it's not a bad play. I get what you're saying though about how he is safely oppressive, but more the point of the video is to make Darius have to work a bit more for it and give players some agency, instead of rolling over saying chip my life away and throw me.
I agree with everything you said, but I more am here to make people not feel helpless, you know? But I have a feeling he will get hit later on. The 27f on hook makes me think they just really don't want the player to even be put in that situation and find ways to not get there.
At work, but ill lab it later, id recommend testing pushblock on hook, also pushblock on 5s2 before follow up might work
At 27f start up, it also might lose to some disjointed normals, like braum 2h, ill test later and come back
I mention you can pushblock it too, that's a given though. Not much beats pushblock.
So best case scenario we return to neutral? This character is so oppressive ...
He is for sure, very strong
Make one for ahri she seems to have infinite strings
2H
I can't beat Darius if I can't play the game. 😢
Delete this