Very happy to see someone actually talk about GW2 for a change when speculating about the Riot MMO and not just WoW. That tweet frm Greg Street about how "respecting player's time is their nr. 1 priority" reeeeeally reminded me of GW2. Guild Wars 2 is very casual friendly, even to a fault depending on who you ask, but I am very very interested to see how Riot's MMO will compare to GW2 in terms of this "respecting the player's time". Looking forward to the next video!
Great vid. I just found your channel thanks to Greg Street, but I already love the quality and the fact that you do videos that are fun to listen - even if I knew every lore detail/MMO news before - is amazing.
I had a thought a while ago, riot always take a successful game in a genre and make their own version of that game and slowly adding their riot touch. Dota 2 - lol Csgo - valorant Autochess - tft Hearthstone - lor And it always works. I follow the mmo for years, since I heard greg street is joining riot I thought something is being made. The thing is, for the first time riot is facing a genre that in my opinion has no successful game or steady idea to build upon. I think riot will reinvent and show the potential of what mmos truly hold.
Even though you're right, and there's not a single successfull MMO ever been made, Riot still have a chance to learn from mistakes made by other studios. They have their chance for greatness, just need to further improve themselves and stay in-touch with their audience, take notes, have a healthy feedback etc. Greg Street surely can help that case.
I sort of think they will take a lot of design inspiration from Guild Wars 2 and combine that with the raids you see in WoW. The Raids in WoW are genuinely very good. It's just a shame everything else around it isn't too hot :(
@@ShambitsGaming my biggest problem with mmos is first and for most, the combat, it always so floaty and lacking compared to combat I experienced in other genres. Btw did you see greg street has tweeted your first video?
@@sheleg4807 I did see that! I'm super proud of it. Still blown away that it happened 😐 I'm not sure how he found the video tbh but I would guess it's down to all of your support viewing these videos. So thanks man. I appreciate it
Glad you like this one! It was about an hour of research, 6 bullet points and a few hours editing for this one :') It feels "cheap" in a way as the lore videos take me so much longer haha Thanks for the comment :)
@@ShambitsGaming Agreed I love and still love GW2 but i just can't play as much anymore after getting end game cause theres nothing for me to go for other than really grindy legendaries and there were no new dungeons to try out. Probably had the best playstyle I loved which was condition necro especially with the scourge was so much fun.
@@ShambitsGaming I agree. I feel like GW2 has some great aspects but it's missing just a few things for me to consider it a main game and also I'm not personally a big fan of weapon swap MMOs like GW2, ESO and New World.
I just recently discovered your channel because of your first video on the new Riot MMO game. I just want to say I think you're videos are amazing! Your voice is very comfortable to listen to, you're videos are informative and are reasonably long. Even things like the design of your channel and video thumbnails give off a sleek and polished impression. I know the release of the Riot MMO might be far off, but I genuinely hope you will keep making more videos!
Hey thanks for watching my videos :D I really appreciate those comments and kind words, especially because I don't know what I'm doing haha. Will keep doing my best and hope you stick around :)
@@ShambitsGaming Also, can I just say how excited I am to have found someone that also likes both League and GW2! I've played a ton of GW2, and if Riot Games is looking to borrow some ideas from them, I will be even more excited for their new MMO. I've been speedrunning raids in GW2, and I feel like the game severely lacks challenging end game content, and I think they could push their combat system even further. If Riot Games takes some of the best parts of GW2, and manage to create a combat system with great depth, and end game content more in line with what we see in FFXIV and WoW, that'd be amazing!
The problem with the actual generation of MMOs is that all of them took WOW as a base for their creation, even the producer of FF14 has said that, insted of MMOS like GW2 and Wild Star, they tried to do something different and that is amazing, far from perfect but the base is solid.
Agreed. I think Guild Wars 2 went a little too far for me as it removed the raiding and dungeon focus which is a big thing for me :( The rest of GW2 is solid thoug (for the most part)
As far as i know, this new studio is mostly for valorant. There will be also a team for the MMO, but from what I've read about it, its more of a lifeservice team, so kinda like support or something. But also it makes ofc perfect sense to locate your studios where the talented people and most of the industry are. I like your approach with GW2. It was great, but not that much of content added or fast enough atleast for me. Dungeons and Raids were kinda abandoned. That said i love their dynamic events and it would be great if Riot would take that system and improve it. Also the combat was really good, many people dont like it, but i think with more polish it could be the best combat for mmos, you can properly heal and target with tab, while having a good amount of action with the telegraphed skills. Mountsystem is handsdown the best and i hope they will "steal" some of that ideas. I am very confident they will take ideas from GW2 since they hired Linsey Murdock, she worked on GW1 and GW2 and got hired by Riot for their MMO! Keep up those videos, you have a good calm voice for this kind of videos and i like your perspective on things 👍
They mention R&D in their announcement and R&D in software companies are often the people making the products so I expect game developers to be there. alongside the live service staff as you say. I didn't know about Linsey actually. I just checked it out. She's a game director but we already know that Mark Yetter is the game director for the MMO so I don't know how involved she is with the MMO. I can only imagine she's been in a few roundtables though... interesting!
I've got limited experience with GW2 raids so I can't speak on this topic with absolute certainty but the few I have done and seen don't have the roles in the same way as Final Fantasy or WoW. Which is what most people think about when you speak about the holy trinity. I remember we had people "tanking" on certain bosses (not all of them) and it was a fluid role. Like it was sometimes the closest player, sometimes the person furthest away, sometimes it's the person with the most stamina or whatever. There was some positioning required to make you that person but it wasn't like, a defined role where you taunt swap, manage stacks and position the boss in the same way as WoW or Final Fantasy.. Not every fight requires a tank either. Designated healers were a bit more common but again, it didn't feel like a "role" where you ramp healing, cleanse stacks, and have other "healer mechanics", more just a Druid who has a bunch of abilities that can apply boons to more than 5 people haha. Again, limited experience with this so it may have changed since I raided. I think I did Bastion and one of the Forsaken thickets which was back in 2017.
I know it probably isn't fair, but the thing I first heard about Tiny Build for was when they helped on work on Yandere Simulator and what a waste of time for them that turned out to be. I'm sure they've worked on some other very successful games; Speedrunners was fun back in the day.
The more I think about this, the more I think it might actually not have the trinity. Bungie raids are pretty good without a trinity, Guild Wars 2 raids are alright, without a trinity (though it's been many years since I played them). .... I really do wonder. For the record. I like tanking too :D
I think if it is holy trinity, it is going to be tank, dps and support, not healing. Since you have different types of supports in league of legends (debuff/buff, cc, heal and shield)
likely third person like WoW. Greg Street (The Executive Producer) said they would need a really good reason to change the camera angle so right now, it's not looking likely.
I've been playing GW2 at launch and have jumped back into it a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not getting really attached to it. The story seems bland and meaningless. Same for the zones. I can't even remember the name of the last couple of zones I've been to or what I did there. It's just blasting through them, doing the quests and not even really talking to any NPCs. I definitely hope to get more story / lore and atmosphere out of Riot's MMO. Please make me care about the world that I'm a part of!
I agree that there's a sense of "play and forget" with a lot of these maps. Their strategy for delivering story is to mostly do it through new maps so you're not really staying in one location for long, especialy if you're playing way after that content originally came out (like I did a few months ago). That said, I do like the story, but if I think about it, I think it's more the characters i'm attached to rather than the world. Contrast that with WoW where I can fly off to the barrens or Ashenvale or something and I feel attached to that zone. perhaps because I spent so long there leveling when I was a teenager :') I wonder if Riot can capture that magic without falling into the pitholes of classic WoW? Time will tell!
I had a part in my script for this but took it out for time saving. All I can say is that I work remotely, have been for 2 years. But even in standard software development you benefit from being in the same room as eachother. We go into the office a few times a week for this reason. Even the Executive Producer said on Twitter that he misses the flexibility of just sitting near people and has recently benefited from in office working. Also, why buy an office if you don't intend to fill it? I would guess that, like the businesses i've been in for the past 2 years. Remote working is part of the strategy. Not the entire strategy.
Will probably just be an waiting zone for dungeon finder. Fuck i hate dungeon finder. If it will have dungeon finder im out. I hope they have servers whit out, i hope the social comes back to mmorpg. Fucking hate not talking to people.
I'm one of the rare people who don't mind dungeon finder as a concept. I think the thing that ruins it is that you get matched with people from anywhere and everywhere and never talk to them again. If it matched you with people on your server then the reputation and communication thing would still be relevant. So you'd get the convenience without losing the community aspect... The challenge then becomes keeping all dungeons relevant so that they're not abandoned a few months after launch by the playerbase like what happened with Guild Wars 2
@@ShambitsGaming The group has no connections, dps not happy that tank fail one time. Leaves the group, and trash talks. In classic the tank u got u had. So instead of raging u tried to help him. And i remeber asking random people if they could help me summon, was it frustrating when they dint help, was it magical when they did, o yes. There are so many things classic showed me that i missed. Dungeon should be special, memorable. Its not whit dungeon finder, u just click a button and speed run it. No talking no nothing. All i want is servers that has turned off convince options. I do understand that some people only have an hour a day to play, and they can play on the dungeon finder server. I want an server where that shite is turned off. And have bigger servers.
@@ZipzZzzz5 The issues you speak about there; namely 1. Speed running dungeons 2. No talking in dungeons 3. No connections in the group I don't think those arereally issues with Dungeon Finder as a concept, they're issues with the design of dungeons, the purpose they're meant to serve and the player pool that dungeon finder pulls from. If Dungeon finder put you in tough dungeons with people from your realm (so you always play with the same people) then you could have Dungeon Finder and that more "classic" feeling experience at the same time. I agree that a finder tool let's you just kick a tank and get a new one though, which you could argue promotes toxicity. It's an interesting topic for sure... I kind of want to make a discord so we can discuss all this sort of stuff more easily :')
This is my opinion, but I didn't like gw2 weapon class system. I prefer Classes like wow but with depth and talents not just 3 specs to choose from. Then make your own type of mage like ice or fire or necromancer even done type of bard like sona.
I find GW2s weapon system quite fun, but I think they could have done more with it. The class system in WoW is very well refined and controlled, where in GW2 you can combo a bunch of weapons together that might, or might not, make sense. I would love a system where you train in certain skills, so you could become a music mage or a necro mage as you say, but I think that would be too hard to balance in an MMO setting.
@@ShambitsGaming balancing is always a big issue for mmos, but if it casual focused than the only thing balancing issues I see is pvp. Also don't allow add-ons like dps meters and people won't bitch as much. I'm just hoping that the reinvent how class/specs are than other mmos or wow clones out there. Also good character customization, for those are the two most important things of a game.
@@tattoomikevsgaming3937 I didn't even think about add-ons yet 🤣 I think you're right though. I used to sim my char and I had to dowoad raiderIOnjust to get into groups, but I wouldn't consider myself hardcore.
I really hope they dont go the Guild Wars 2 route..that game was the biggest disappointment for me.. the way they do progression is so uninteresting and gets boring really fast.
I'm actually scripting a video about what Riot could learn from Guild Wars 2. And one of the points in the "Don't do" pile is related to this. I think GW2 got a lot right, but their progession is purely cosmetic and story focused which always relegated it to a side game for me ;( Not sure i'll ever record and release that video though :D
as in, they may attract more Game Developers to their company by having a local office, but it's unlikely they will be user the mercer island office as a hub for the MMOs development. This means those that do not want to relocate are already elimintaed. This also means that the MMO being developed remotely could have already been accomplished for Dev's looking to work with Riot already. Having a local office is probably a small boost, but the point of the office is for other development which Riot have piles to do.
They confirmed that MMO staff will be employed in that office in the future (although it's valorant first). As it's in the future, I expect that office to be the live service Infrastructure staff. But who really knows. Game designers will probably, on large, stay where they are in Cali. Nicollo (The CEO) also confirmed that they're moving towards a hybrid model of 3/2 days out/in office across the company. So I think fully remote work isn't likely for the MMO.
Very happy to see someone actually talk about GW2 for a change when speculating about the Riot MMO and not just WoW. That tweet frm Greg Street about how "respecting player's time is their nr. 1 priority" reeeeeally reminded me of GW2. Guild Wars 2 is very casual friendly, even to a fault depending on who you ask, but I am very very interested to see how Riot's MMO will compare to GW2 in terms of this "respecting the player's time". Looking forward to the next video!
Great vid. I just found your channel thanks to Greg Street, but I already love the quality and the fact that you do videos that are fun to listen - even if I knew every lore detail/MMO news before - is amazing.
I had a thought a while ago, riot always take a successful game in a genre and make their own version of that game and slowly adding their riot touch.
Dota 2 - lol
Csgo - valorant
Autochess - tft
Hearthstone - lor
And it always works.
I follow the mmo for years, since I heard greg street is joining riot I thought something is being made.
The thing is, for the first time riot is facing a genre that in my opinion has no successful game or steady idea to build upon. I think riot will reinvent and show the potential of what mmos truly hold.
Even though you're right, and there's not a single successfull MMO ever been made, Riot still have a chance to learn from mistakes made by other studios. They have their chance for greatness, just need to further improve themselves and stay in-touch with their audience, take notes, have a healthy feedback etc. Greg Street surely can help that case.
I sort of think they will take a lot of design inspiration from Guild Wars 2 and combine that with the raids you see in WoW. The Raids in WoW are genuinely very good. It's just a shame everything else around it isn't too hot :(
@@ShambitsGaming my biggest problem with mmos is first and for most, the combat, it always so floaty and lacking compared to combat I experienced in other genres.
Btw did you see greg street has tweeted your first video?
@@sheleg4807
I did see that! I'm super proud of it. Still blown away that it happened 😐
I'm not sure how he found the video tbh but I would guess it's down to all of your support viewing these videos.
So thanks man. I appreciate it
@@ShambitsGaming someone tweeted it in the comments
Another great vid. Keep up the good work
Glad you like this one! It was about an hour of research, 6 bullet points and a few hours editing for this one :')
It feels "cheap" in a way as the lore videos take me so much longer haha
Thanks for the comment :)
I really hope that the Riot MMO will be similar to GW2, becouse I consider it to be the best MMO right now.
Agreed. guild wars 2 is excellent it's just a shame that the end game is lacking in some areas that make it a "main game" for me.
:C
@@ShambitsGaming Agreed I love and still love GW2 but i just can't play as much anymore after getting end game cause theres nothing for me to go for other than really grindy legendaries and there were no new dungeons to try out. Probably had the best playstyle I loved which was condition necro especially with the scourge was so much fun.
@@ShambitsGaming I agree. I feel like GW2 has some great aspects but it's missing just a few things for me to consider it a main game and also I'm not personally a big fan of weapon swap MMOs like GW2, ESO and New World.
I've just subscribed to your channel. Keep up the great work mate.
Thanks homie :)
Will do my best
I just recently discovered your channel because of your first video on the new Riot MMO game. I just want to say I think you're videos are amazing! Your voice is very comfortable to listen to, you're videos are informative and are reasonably long. Even things like the design of your channel and video thumbnails give off a sleek and polished impression. I know the release of the Riot MMO might be far off, but I genuinely hope you will keep making more videos!
Hey thanks for watching my videos :D
I really appreciate those comments and kind words, especially because I don't know what I'm doing haha.
Will keep doing my best and hope you stick around :)
@@ShambitsGaming Also, can I just say how excited I am to have found someone that also likes both League and GW2! I've played a ton of GW2, and if Riot Games is looking to borrow some ideas from them, I will be even more excited for their new MMO. I've been speedrunning raids in GW2, and I feel like the game severely lacks challenging end game content, and I think they could push their combat system even further. If Riot Games takes some of the best parts of GW2, and manage to create a combat system with great depth, and end game content more in line with what we see in FFXIV and WoW, that'd be amazing!
@@nushmag That's what I'm hoping for too :D
The problem with the actual generation of MMOs is that all of them took WOW as a base for their creation, even the producer of FF14 has said that, insted of MMOS like GW2 and Wild Star, they tried to do something different and that is amazing, far from perfect but the base is solid.
Agreed. I think Guild Wars 2 went a little too far for me as it removed the raiding and dungeon focus which is a big thing for me :(
The rest of GW2 is solid thoug (for the most part)
As far as i know, this new studio is mostly for valorant.
There will be also a team for the MMO, but from what I've read about it, its more of a lifeservice team, so kinda like support or something.
But also it makes ofc perfect sense to locate your studios where the talented people and most of the industry are.
I like your approach with GW2.
It was great, but not that much of content added or fast enough atleast for me.
Dungeons and Raids were kinda abandoned.
That said i love their dynamic events and it would be great if Riot would take that system and improve it.
Also the combat was really good, many people dont like it, but i think with more polish it could be the best combat for mmos,
you can properly heal and target with tab, while having a good amount of action with the telegraphed skills.
Mountsystem is handsdown the best and i hope they will "steal" some of that ideas.
I am very confident they will take ideas from GW2 since they hired Linsey Murdock, she worked on GW1 and GW2 and got hired by Riot for their MMO!
Keep up those videos, you have a good calm voice for this kind of videos and i like your perspective on things 👍
They mention R&D in their announcement and R&D in software companies are often the people making the products so I expect game developers to be there. alongside the live service staff as you say.
I didn't know about Linsey actually. I just checked it out. She's a game director but we already know that Mark Yetter is the game director for the MMO so I don't know how involved she is with the MMO. I can only imagine she's been in a few roundtables though...
interesting!
actually GW2 have a holy trinity, in raids u always have a tank, 2healers and also supports that buffs team mate
I've got limited experience with GW2 raids so I can't speak on this topic with absolute certainty but the few I have done and seen don't have the roles in the same way as Final Fantasy or WoW. Which is what most people think about when you speak about the holy trinity.
I remember we had people "tanking" on certain bosses (not all of them) and it was a fluid role. Like it was sometimes the closest player, sometimes the person furthest away, sometimes it's the person with the most stamina or whatever. There was some positioning required to make you that person but it wasn't like, a defined role where you taunt swap, manage stacks and position the boss in the same way as WoW or Final Fantasy.. Not every fight requires a tank either. Designated healers were a bit more common but again, it didn't feel like a "role" where you ramp healing, cleanse stacks, and have other "healer mechanics", more just a Druid who has a bunch of abilities that can apply boons to more than 5 people haha.
Again, limited experience with this so it may have changed since I raided. I think I did Bastion and one of the Forsaken thickets which was back in 2017.
I know it probably isn't fair, but the thing I first heard about Tiny Build for was when they helped on work on Yandere Simulator and what a waste of time for them that turned out to be. I'm sure they've worked on some other very successful games; Speedrunners was fun back in the day.
Speedrunners was so good *-*
I like tanking and healing, please gib holy trinity!
The more I think about this, the more I think it might actually not have the trinity.
Bungie raids are pretty good without a trinity, Guild Wars 2 raids are alright, without a trinity (though it's been many years since I played them).
.... I really do wonder.
For the record. I like tanking too :D
I think if it is holy trinity, it is going to be tank, dps and support, not healing. Since you have different types of supports in league of legends (debuff/buff, cc, heal and shield)
Want to ask a simple question: This is a WOW-like game or Diablo-like game?
likely third person like WoW.
Greg Street (The Executive Producer) said they would need a really good reason to change the camera angle so right now, it's not looking likely.
I've been playing GW2 at launch and have jumped back into it a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not getting really attached to it. The story seems bland and meaningless. Same for the zones. I can't even remember the name of the last couple of zones I've been to or what I did there. It's just blasting through them, doing the quests and not even really talking to any NPCs.
I definitely hope to get more story / lore and atmosphere out of Riot's MMO. Please make me care about the world that I'm a part of!
I agree that there's a sense of "play and forget" with a lot of these maps. Their strategy for delivering story is to mostly do it through new maps so you're not really staying in one location for long, especialy if you're playing way after that content originally came out (like I did a few months ago).
That said, I do like the story, but if I think about it, I think it's more the characters i'm attached to rather than the world.
Contrast that with WoW where I can fly off to the barrens or Ashenvale or something and I feel attached to that zone. perhaps because I spent so long there leveling when I was a teenager :')
I wonder if Riot can capture that magic without falling into the pitholes of classic WoW? Time will tell!
I think you're forgetting the rising popularity of working remotely
I had a part in my script for this but took it out for time saving.
All I can say is that I work remotely, have been for 2 years. But even in standard software development you benefit from being in the same room as eachother. We go into the office a few times a week for this reason.
Even the Executive Producer said on Twitter that he misses the flexibility of just sitting near people and has recently benefited from in office working.
Also, why buy an office if you don't intend to fill it?
I would guess that, like the businesses i've been in for the past 2 years. Remote working is part of the strategy. Not the entire strategy.
Will probably just be an waiting zone for dungeon finder. Fuck i hate dungeon finder. If it will have dungeon finder im out. I hope they have servers whit out, i hope the social comes back to mmorpg. Fucking hate not talking to people.
I'm one of the rare people who don't mind dungeon finder as a concept. I think the thing that ruins it is that you get matched with people from anywhere and everywhere and never talk to them again.
If it matched you with people on your server then the reputation and communication thing would still be relevant. So you'd get the convenience without losing the community aspect...
The challenge then becomes keeping all dungeons relevant so that they're not abandoned a few months after launch by the playerbase like what happened with Guild Wars 2
What MMO do you play that doesnt have dungeon finder? And how is dungeon finder the main culprit for that?
@@ShambitsGaming The group has no connections, dps not happy that tank fail one time. Leaves the group, and trash talks. In classic the tank u got u had. So instead of raging u tried to help him. And i remeber asking random people if they could help me summon, was it frustrating when they dint help, was it magical when they did, o yes. There are so many things classic showed me that i missed. Dungeon should be special, memorable. Its not whit dungeon finder, u just click a button and speed run it. No talking no nothing. All i want is servers that has turned off convince options. I do understand that some people only have an hour a day to play, and they can play on the dungeon finder server. I want an server where that shite is turned off. And have bigger servers.
@@ZipzZzzz5
The issues you speak about there; namely
1. Speed running dungeons
2. No talking in dungeons
3. No connections in the group
I don't think those arereally issues with Dungeon Finder as a concept, they're issues with the design of dungeons, the purpose they're meant to serve and the player pool that dungeon finder pulls from.
If Dungeon finder put you in tough dungeons with people from your realm (so you always play with the same people) then you could have Dungeon Finder and that more "classic" feeling experience at the same time.
I agree that a finder tool let's you just kick a tank and get a new one though, which you could argue promotes toxicity.
It's an interesting topic for sure... I kind of want to make a discord so we can discuss all this sort of stuff more easily :')
This is my opinion, but I didn't like gw2 weapon class system. I prefer Classes like wow but with depth and talents not just 3 specs to choose from. Then make your own type of mage like ice or fire or necromancer even done type of bard like sona.
I find GW2s weapon system quite fun, but I think they could have done more with it. The class system in WoW is very well refined and controlled, where in GW2 you can combo a bunch of weapons together that might, or might not, make sense.
I would love a system where you train in certain skills, so you could become a music mage or a necro mage as you say, but I think that would be too hard to balance in an MMO setting.
@@ShambitsGaming balancing is always a big issue for mmos, but if it casual focused than the only thing balancing issues I see is pvp. Also don't allow add-ons like dps meters and people won't bitch as much.
I'm just hoping that the reinvent how class/specs are than other mmos or wow clones out there. Also good character customization, for those are the two most important things of a game.
@@tattoomikevsgaming3937
I didn't even think about add-ons yet 🤣
I think you're right though.
I used to sim my char and I had to dowoad raiderIOnjust to get into groups, but I wouldn't consider myself hardcore.
I really hope they dont go the Guild Wars 2 route..that game was the biggest disappointment for me.. the way they do progression is so uninteresting and gets boring really fast.
I'm actually scripting a video about what Riot could learn from Guild Wars 2. And one of the points in the "Don't do" pile is related to this.
I think GW2 got a lot right, but their progession is purely cosmetic and story focused which always relegated it to a side game for me ;(
Not sure i'll ever record and release that video though :D
@@ShambitsGaming I would be very interested in that video actually!
sorry - i know riot employees, this isn't for the MMO.
as in, they may attract more Game Developers to their company by having a local office, but it's unlikely they will be user the mercer island office as a hub for the MMOs development. This means those that do not want to relocate are already elimintaed.
This also means that the MMO being developed remotely could have already been accomplished for Dev's looking to work with Riot already.
Having a local office is probably a small boost, but the point of the office is for other development which Riot have piles to do.
They confirmed that MMO staff will be employed in that office in the future (although it's valorant first). As it's in the future, I expect that office to be the live service Infrastructure staff. But who really knows.
Game designers will probably, on large, stay where they are in Cali.
Nicollo (The CEO) also confirmed that they're moving towards a hybrid model of 3/2 days out/in office across the company. So I think fully remote work isn't likely for the MMO.