We use the inflatable plug to flood test all our showers. It fits inside the pipe, and initially only fill the the water level 1inch to test that exact connection. Then after 1 hour fill the rest of the pan to test. It should have been tested by the tiler during HIS flood test. The red wing nut stopper will not test that connection. That is why we use the inflatable
I don't understand. It leaked when there was no hole in the pan liner for the drain? And with a hole it passed the test (water level didn't change after a day)?
The hole was in a weird place, that was the point- it had nothing to do with the tile, mortar bed, or pan liner- it was in the plumbing connections beneath all that, and the shower getting filled with water would not leak- what will leak is if the plumbing between the P trap and the drain gets filled with water, which is highly unlikely.
Why did that fill with water? The shower shouldn't have been draining due to the test. But even if the water did drain why didn't it drain past the p-trap as normal?
I'll bet that plumber was a happy man when he understood this is not an enduring problem requiring him to lose a BUNCHA money, not to mention the lost crew availability. Nice catch, Corbett.
It's definitely possible; you can buy pre made stainless steel shower pans that are completely welded together. It wouldn't be to far a stretch to make the whole shower stall out of welded stainless sheet metal or aluminum maybe. Showers are fairly simple shapes, any sheet metal fab shop should be able to make one I would think.
@@Ariccio123 You can tile over a metal surface if you want, either with a tile adhesive or you can use a thick med mortar approach. That's pretty much how the pool on top of the Marina Bay Sands was built. And that's a giant swimming pool built over three separate skyscrapers...
It doesn’t appear to be leaking at the drain pipe to the hub on the drain body connection if that’s what you are implying. Or am I misunderstanding? Did you plug the grate body in the 2nd test? It looks like it’s coming from around the drain body or even higher. Question, did you have the water at the same level as test 1 on test #2 ? I do bathroom remodeling and have seen where these 3 piece drains will only leak if the drain becomes stopped up or slow in draining and it’s usually around the clamp (assuming they never got tested) . Best way to test is using a rubber air test ball in the pipe.
Hey Jesse, yes, everything was the same on the second test except the plug was IN the grate body second time around. Hence the issue would not have been solved by doing anything to the tile, pan, etc.
Funny story. I decided to build my entire house myself because the custom house I had built, that cost over a half a milion dollars had little issues all over the place but what put me over the edge was a leaking master shower. After that I was on a journey.
We are a general contractor, electrical contractor, and plumbing contractor ... as the plumbing contractor, it is in our scope / contract to set the drains. It's the dumbest thing! The tile / flooring contractor SHOULD set their own drains. We do a good job and do not have any issues. But setting shower drains, especially if they are that part of a system like Schluter where they have a membrane already attached to them, should not be in our scope of work. The tile contractor should do that.
Thanks to both of you for chiming in here. These are very good points. While coordination might be a solve, it is a PITA to the schedule work flow and accountability.
We learn more from our mistakes than we ever do from our successes. So in this particular circumstance it was quite obvious the testing procedure was flawed. Now through experience & maybe some trial and error we can come up with a dedicated procedure and checklist how test like this should be performed; & what procedures should be performed after a failed test is noted (witnessed or recorded). So instead of saying you have a problem,maybe the correct statement would be,there’s a problem, let’s work together to find out what caused the problem and what is needed to make the needed correction or corrections . Personally I would think a test with the drain and drain hardware connected, capping the tail section might be the best way to go (this way you’re testing all the components incorporated into that shower pan). Your thoughts ?
I have bad news for you. That shower is still faulty regardless of where you plugged it. That clamping drain should be 100% leak free whether it’s plugged up high at the drain cover or down low in the riser pipe (where it should be test plugged using an inflatable plug prior to setting the mortar base pan). You have a shower that can’t stand anything more than the regular unimpeded flow. If you get a slow drain that backs up you will get a leak. If someone, like a kid, puts their foot over the drain for a minute you will get a leak. If you dump a bucket of mop water you will get a leak. You are most likely getting a small leak that doesn’t immediately show up but WILL result in rot to the plywood. That contractor should 100% come back and fix that shower. Don’t let them off the hook. I can’t, for the life of me, understand setting a mortar bed without a day-long flood test of the clamping drain and liner. Using the proper inflatable test plug allows the drain and the glue joint above the trap to be flood tested.
I have good news for you. The underside of this shower is exposed to below, so we have visual verification of no further leaking or rot. Thanks for your concern.
@ Your shower failed a basic flood test. You’ve done nothing but delay the inevitable AND let the contractor off the hook. You don’t have to take my word for it. Watch how the maker of your pan liner and drain, Oatey, says your pan should be leak tested. Watch how the drain gets plugged in the pipe/below the clamping drain. Post your video over at the John bridge tile forum and see what the dozens of pros think about it Oatey instructions: th-cam.com/video/xpE1A6ogUNI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mc9qt4LFcmcinxko
Tile looks and works is great BUT NOT ON THE FLOOR OF THE SHOWER. A waterproof pan with tiles on the walls is a much better solution. Think of how many joints and seals must remain perfect for long, long time. All wooden boat (lots of joints/seals) owners know that their boat will leak a little and that's ok BUT not when it rotting your house!! Function overrules form in showers floors.
It's a slick system, no argument on that, but there ARE options, which is why we wanted to go with the system we chose, to show there's no silver bullet. Tile dudes on YT show Kerdi being done wrong sometimes too.
I still don’t like the drain type u used with the knock out. I also like the Kerdi system, been using it for years with zero issues. What I like is that even if the tile cracked water will go into the drain and not leak out. But I agree with you that humans have the ability to screw up even a fool proof plan. Also that they don’t have every option available but for me it’s the only thing I will install or even show my customers because I know it works for me and I can comfortably stand behind it.
That was a great observation on the shower pan. Luckily you did not have to demo the shower out.
😅
We use the inflatable plug to flood test all our showers. It fits inside the pipe, and initially only fill the the water level 1inch to test that exact connection. Then after 1 hour fill the rest of the pan to test. It should have been tested by the tiler during HIS flood test.
The red wing nut stopper will not test that connection. That is why we use the inflatable
I like it
I can already feel the frustration of tearing out that shower redoing everything perfectly and it failing the test again.
Instant stroke
I don't understand. It leaked when there was no hole in the pan liner for the drain?
And with a hole it passed the test (water level didn't change after a day)?
The hole was in a weird place, that was the point- it had nothing to do with the tile, mortar bed, or pan liner- it was in the plumbing connections beneath all that, and the shower getting filled with water would not leak- what will leak is if the plumbing between the P trap and the drain gets filled with water, which is highly unlikely.
Why did that fill with water? The shower shouldn't have been draining due to the test.
But even if the water did drain why didn't it drain past the p-trap as normal?
Corbett, can you post a side view drawing to describe the leak point?
I want a molded fiber pan please.
Just brilliant explanation
Thanks!
question for you on this tho, how did they pass the rough in plumbing inspection where they fill the pipes up with water. Wouldnt that have leaked?
Addressed in the vid, this was after plumbing inspection passed.
I'll bet that plumber was a happy man when he understood this is not an enduring problem requiring him to lose a BUNCHA money, not to mention the lost crew availability. Nice catch, Corbett.
High five, Lew
great story....and point!
would it be possible to design a repairable shower?
It's definitely possible; you can buy pre made stainless steel shower pans that are completely welded together. It wouldn't be to far a stretch to make the whole shower stall out of welded stainless sheet metal or aluminum maybe. Showers are fairly simple shapes, any sheet metal fab shop should be able to make one I would think.
How do I get a 40x48 1 piece shower module in my finished home?
@@stoveguy2133 Assuming you're not doing extensive remodeling, I would say bring it in panels and assemble/weld the panels together in the bathroom.
@@ZergZfTw Real concern of mine: would it be really slippery?
@@Ariccio123 You can tile over a metal surface if you want, either with a tile adhesive or you can use a thick med mortar approach. That's pretty much how the pool on top of the Marina Bay Sands was built. And that's a giant swimming pool built over three separate skyscrapers...
It doesn’t appear to be leaking at the drain pipe to the hub on the drain body connection if that’s what you are implying. Or am I misunderstanding? Did you plug the grate body in the 2nd test? It looks like it’s coming from around the drain body or even higher. Question, did you have the water at the same level as test 1 on test #2 ?
I do bathroom remodeling and have seen where these 3 piece drains will only leak if the drain becomes stopped up or slow in draining and it’s usually around the clamp (assuming they never got tested) . Best way to test is using a rubber air test ball in the pipe.
Hey Jesse, yes, everything was the same on the second test except the plug was IN the grate body second time around. Hence the issue would not have been solved by doing anything to the tile, pan, etc.
Funny story. I decided to build my entire house myself because the custom house I had built, that cost over a half a milion dollars had little issues all over the place but what put me over the edge was a leaking master shower. After that I was on a journey.
Good work! Whether you think you can or you can’t, you’re right.
I wish you'd had a spare part that you could have held up to demonstrate what you were describing or maybe drawing of how everything was put together.
I still don’t completely understand it myself, except that it has never leaked a bit since that first test.
We are a general contractor, electrical contractor, and plumbing contractor ... as the plumbing contractor, it is in our scope / contract to set the drains. It's the dumbest thing! The tile / flooring contractor SHOULD set their own drains.
We do a good job and do not have any issues. But setting shower drains, especially if they are that part of a system like Schluter where they have a membrane already attached to them, should not be in our scope of work. The tile contractor should do that.
Thx for chiming in Brian, funny how many of the issues in construction are staging/schedule based
@, what ends up happening is, we have to call the tile contractor in for a coordination meeting to tell us where and how high to set the drains. 😅
Thanks to both of you for chiming in here. These are very good points. While coordination might be a solve, it is a PITA to the schedule work flow and accountability.
We learn more from our mistakes than we ever do from our successes. So in this particular circumstance it was quite obvious the testing procedure was flawed. Now through experience & maybe some trial and error we can come up with a dedicated procedure and checklist how test like this should be performed; & what procedures should be performed after a failed test is noted (witnessed or recorded). So instead of saying you have a problem,maybe the correct statement would be,there’s a problem, let’s work together to find out what caused the problem and what is needed to make the needed correction or corrections . Personally I would think a test with the drain and drain hardware connected, capping the tail section might be the best way to go (this way you’re testing all the components incorporated into that shower pan). Your thoughts ?
I have bad news for you. That shower is still faulty regardless of where you plugged it. That clamping drain should be 100% leak free whether it’s plugged up high at the drain cover or down low in the riser pipe (where it should be test plugged using an inflatable plug prior to setting the mortar base pan).
You have a shower that can’t stand anything more than the regular unimpeded flow. If you get a slow drain that backs up you will get a leak. If someone, like a kid, puts their foot over the drain for a minute you will get a leak. If you dump a bucket of mop water you will get a leak. You are most likely getting a small leak that doesn’t immediately show up but WILL result in rot to the plywood.
That contractor should 100% come back and fix that shower. Don’t let them off the hook.
I can’t, for the life of me, understand setting a mortar bed without a day-long flood test of the clamping drain and liner. Using the proper inflatable test plug allows the drain and the glue joint above the trap to be flood tested.
I have good news for you. The underside of this shower is exposed to below, so we have visual verification of no further leaking or rot. Thanks for your concern.
@
Your shower failed a basic flood test. You’ve done nothing but delay the inevitable AND let the contractor off the hook.
You don’t have to take my word for it. Watch how the maker of your pan liner and drain, Oatey, says your pan should be leak tested. Watch how the drain gets plugged in the pipe/below the clamping drain.
Post your video over at the John bridge tile forum and see what the dozens of pros think about it
Oatey instructions:
th-cam.com/video/xpE1A6ogUNI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mc9qt4LFcmcinxko
@darwinawardcommittee sounds like you did not actually watch the video, and it also sounds like you’re a serial troller from your account name
Trying to reach out to your email for a HVAC system design.
corbett@buildingperformanceworkshop.com
Thanks you! i just emailed the info
Tile looks and works is great BUT NOT ON THE FLOOR OF THE SHOWER. A waterproof pan with tiles on the walls is a much better solution. Think of how many joints and seals must remain perfect for long, long time. All wooden boat (lots of joints/seals) owners know that their boat will leak a little and that's ok BUT not when it rotting your house!! Function overrules form in showers floors.
Got to use Schluter Kerdi system nothing else comes close
It's a slick system, no argument on that, but there ARE options, which is why we wanted to go with the system we chose, to show there's no silver bullet. Tile dudes on YT show Kerdi being done wrong sometimes too.
I still don’t like the drain type u used with the knock out. I also like the Kerdi system, been using it for years with zero issues. What I like is that even if the tile cracked water will go into the drain and not leak out. But I agree with you that humans have the ability to screw up even a fool proof plan. Also that they don’t have every option available but for me it’s the only thing I will install or even show my customers because I know it works for me and I can comfortably stand behind it.