*inhale* “BY OSCILLATING THE HYDROFOIL UP AND DOWN THE LIFT COMPONENT VECTOR CAN BE INCLINED IN THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL” *gasp* Cool video by the way, I didn’t even know this was a thing!
There has to be a response! I'm an engineer, not a marine biologist, so I blanked on animals ... dolphin, I think seems to the consensus answer I'm hearing. Thanks for the comment, Hunter!
Thank you, Anthony. I just had that realization recently. The more we dig in and try things, the more we're learning. Our recent mission is to try to simplify the learning experience so everyone can experience this feeling we know and love! Thanks for the comment.
Rigid, thin, little air resistance, and a tail kick are what I imagine the perfect board would be and it looks like ur setup is all of those except the tail kick. I recently just went from a 4'0 36L board (very thick and no deck concave) to a 4'8 29L board (very thin with a front strap and deck concave). I have to say the 4'8 pumps about the same, in short distances even better (I might attribute this to the strap allowing more aggressive pumping). I even feel as though I gain some extra torque with my front foot being further away from the mast. My advice for the 3 minute setup: pump your little board with a paddle in your hands and use a front foot strap. It looks like a lot of sup riders are using it to their advantage. But again this brings up the age old question, should you be measuring your flights in distance or in time? I personally think distance. Since your goal is to achieve unlimited flight you need a fast board that can get you from wake to wake in the least amount of time, once at the wake you can regain energy and the process continues of wake hopping and energy recover. I have experienced this recently, I have a foil with extreme amount of lift but soooo slow. Since it's slow I am killing myself to get to the next wave. My other foil (super fast) I can cover more distance in less time and therefore seemingly always be on a wave. Sorry if I'm being a bit of a broken record.. Awesome videos! Without a doubt you produce the most structured, scientific, well documented surf foil research that is available to the public right now!
Matthew! Awesome suggestions. The front foot strap isn't in the right spot on my board, but I really like that idea ... like a cyclist with clip in pedals! I will measure in distance now that I can with Apple Watch. It's just easier to measure time than distance for this test. You're absolutely right. I am now wondering if I can actually go further by going slower ... power needed to overcome drag is the cubic of velocity, so if I slow down a bit, my exertion goes way down, and maybe our distance further ... like the tortoise and hare! Thanks again for these suggestions. I'll let you know how it goes.
@@WakeThief it is sqare with velocity not cubic ;) I think the way will be: go faster, go further, build better foils with thinner profiles and same energy requirement and lift (it will stall earlier, but this is managable )
Almost heaven, West Virginia Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River Life is old there, older than the trees Younger than the mountains, growin' like a breeze
A good pumping description might be "im pushing the board down and the fins underneath it are causing resistance in the water which then pushes me back upwards" or if thats too long, "I push down and forward then the fins/water pushes me back up"
The board you are using I kite foiled with for about one year. I then moved to a Kanaha Shapes board which was even shorter and lighter. Amazing board. Now i'm riding a friends custom design which is similar to the KS but with more rocker for kiting. Try the KS i think you will like it.
I don't pump but kitefoil. I have to say though I enjoy your videos. I appreciate the detail, thoroughness and effort and the narration is top shelf. Please keep it up.
Have you given any thought to using some kind of handlebars on your boards? If you had one handlebar on the front and one on the back, it seems like this would allow you to pump harder. The bar stem could either be rigid (like a steel tube) or soft (like a rope or cable). (I say this as a former skateboarder who experimented with all different kinds of set ups back in the 1970s, including screwing a T-shaped handlebar onto the front of our boards, making them behave somewhat like the two wheel Razor-type scooters that came out about 10 years ago. Doing this certainly made jumping on and off curbs easier. It also made it more difficult to fall off the board.) I hope you'll consider giving this a try.
Such a clever idea, thank you! I have never heard this one. I think you’re right. There aren’t that many muscles we can fully utilize when pumping. This would help. Appreciate you sharing.
Have you considered Pumping with a single front strap or front and back strap? I think it would give you more leverage, or would you consider it cheating??? Enjoy watching your reviews!
Thank you. It’s a great reminder. Yes I have tried it but the front strap location is not ideal so I need to try another board. I think it would help too! Onto a new board!
Thanks for the video. Newest lineup for Dwarfcraft has 3 sizes: 100cm / 3ft, 3,5" (11L) 110cm / 3ft, 7,5" (14L) 120cm / 3ft, 11" (24L) What's your height, and which would you lean towards of these for dockstart pumping?
@@WakeThief Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! Personally looking for a board to learn pumping as my Efoil or 6'11 FreeFoil is far from optimal. Would absolutely take the 100cm Dwarfcraft if not for my 6'8" frame and size14 feet, however it looks like there is room for a wider stance based on your video @ 0:35sec. Do you feel like you have plenty of room to stand on, or would you strongly recommend someone taller to at a longer board?
A key attribute not addressed is the stiffness. The dwarf craft is a nice board and I agree with the positive attributes around size for carving and maneuverability but without carbon stringers it feels a bit damp. All carbon boards such as FFB Whip have more responsiveness and power transfer. It's hard to beat the Armstrong SKT311 which has a sandwich of 8 layers of carbon that make it stiff and super efficient for pump energy transfer.
Thank you, Tim! Donny Martin just shared the same. It's great input. Exactly what I was seeking. Thanks for sharing your expertise with me, so I can find the pumping machine I'm looking for!
I got my 2021 100cm Dwarfcraft yesterday and tried it out today behind the boat with my SPG 1260 sq cm foil and it was fantastic . Could ride the 2nd wake and also pumped so much better than my Freedom Foil Board Whip which is 17L and 5cm thick . I think the 3.3cm thickness of the Dwarfcraft and of course the low volume 11L are the keys to its success. I set the foil all the way to the back which is what is often advised for these super short boards but noticed that you set yours quite a ways forward. But I definitely noticed that I was back foot heavy so maybe I should also set it more forward!
Awesome! I really like to minimize swing weight while pumping so put foil near front of track. No right answer here. Just preference. Thanks for sharing!
I've yet to try a carbon mast that feels as stiff as a thick aluminum mast. I think we will need even thicker masts if we want to go higher in wingspan
You probably have a little extra air resistance with the larger board too which adds to wasted energy. But extended mass is likely the dominant cause of the wasted energy.
nice, what would happen with a longer column (distance between board and foil), you could do less but harder pumps? maybe faster since accelerate down?
if you bring your feet closer together over the stem of the foil you'll generate more power with each pump. Also relaxing your upper body so you can use your weight with your legs like you're a big weighted piston
The way I understand how the Skateboard broke was by trying to get 1st up by being towed... I think you should try a Skateboard with the foil on it using your dock starter. If I had a nice foil to dock start, Id try a the skateboard...right now trying to decide what foil to buy for dock starting. I got SlingShot Gamma and Naish Thruster foils for windsurfing but so far neither brand offer a foil like the Axis and Indianna that you already tested. Thinking about getting the Kujira or DockStarter though. Thanks for all the info videos.
If I can help you down select, please let me know ...wakethief@icloud.com. Your point about starting on dock starter is brilliant. You're right. It broke during the water start, and I think you're right ... it would work off the dock starter. Thank you!
This is awesome! Just curious, what do you do if you fall in the middle of the lake? Also, how far can you go with some practice without getting tired?
Thanks Tanner. Unfortunately, a wipeout far from your dock requires a long swim home. I had a 15min swim the day before the lake froze and it was cold :) 200m in about a minute is fine but 600m in 2.5min is complete exhaustion.
@@WakeThief Porpoising is also the name of a flying technique used in cross-country gliding, but I think you're right that the cetacean meaning is more relevant to pump foiling.
Describe pumping using a credit card and some sand on a flat surface. Angle the card as you push it through the sand and it moves. The sand represents the water and the card represents the wing. That's how I finally understood lift and how angling a snow plow pushes the snow to a specific side
What size foil works best? does aspect ratio matter? I would think a short board like 30", but 20 " wide would work well. Volume of the board does not matter, so a short and thin light board would be good. Does foil weight matter?
Hi Heinz - I like 1800-2000sqcm area, and aspect ratio >7 (115cm or larger span). Lets me fly at a lower speed to reduce power so I can fly longer. High aspect ratio reduces drag. Board can be as short and light as you can get, as long as you can get out of the water on it. Foil weight doesn't matter that much. I prefer Aluminum mast because its stiffer and provides better power transfer during pumping.
I think this guy is doing some pioneer work, I enjoy his videos, and I'm sure we are going to see a lot of improvement in the next time ... I was wondering if a twin foil would make any difference
@@WakeThief no, that would be sort of boxed wing ( please check bruce creations' channel on youtube) What I meant: a long time ago I've seen some foils that used to have the same wing size and shape on both sides, they do not have the classic aircraft type shape like nowadays... I guess the advantage would be you can change direction with the kite without turning or switching ... I guess that was the idea behind that concept, but I guess for pumping purpose that is not gonna work!
Been dock starting on my oes Australia prone boards, which are thicker than these..... Both are 42l, and I wing in them too. The second one is lighter, thicker but 3" narrower. The difference in pumping into the wind is off the scale, tho I'm not sure if its the width reduction or the 400g weight saving, I'm suspecting both.... 1150 foil.
I’d like to see more short board options. Looking at a Kit board from Clearwater they have a small and smaller option wondering if the 2’11” peanut would be a wake thieving tool of glide.
Thanks for your videos + explanations- now I know I want to try it. But two questions please . 1) How difficultt it is to learn ? Like learning snowboarding for example ? 2) With your small board it seems to be easier to pump , but I wonder if you could lay onto this small board and swim back when you have fallen in the water in the middle of the lake ? I guess with a bigger board it might be easier to swim back onto it. Many thanks. Greetings from Switzerland.
Hello! Please reach out to me at wakethief@icloud.com. I know some Swiss foilers I can intro you to. 1) it isn’t easy to learn but like anything you’re passionate about, learning can be fun. (2) exactly right. More fun to pump a small board. Both big and small boards leave you stranded in the water however. Thanks for the comment.
Hi . I have seen that you also tested the INDIANA 1100P. Which one would you prefer for your preferences of lake pump foiling? ( 1,81m / 78 kg/ Beginner/ Lake/ dockstart hopefully in the future :-) , Again thanks in advance....
Looks super smooth. Just of curiosity, how much distance can you do before you get exhausted? I am windsurfing and wavesurfing but looking at your video I need to update the gears!!!
Thanks for the comment, Jonas. The longest distance pump is 600-700m. Now I have an Apple Watch so will be able to precisely measure vs use landmarks and google distance. I am convinced that technique and equipment matter most then fitness, though all three are needed. Thanks
@Wake Thief Great videos! Thank you! I looked into foil pumping 1-2 years ago and was advised by one company that this is only for pros who live and breath water sports year round. Thanks for proving them wrong. Did you have a chance to review the Kanaha Shapes Board? How would this compare with the Dwarfcraft Slingshot 100cm, or the Axis Tray 94? Also, have you ever considered/tried using some sort of propulsion system attached to the bottom of the board just to get started? Is there a propulsion system that would be light enough to secure to the board?
Robbie! Great questions ... I have not tried the Kanaha shape boards, but should reach out. Thank you. This foil drive system is close to the propulsion system you describe. th-cam.com/video/jp6-l2-LZOM/w-d-xo.html. I have a boost surf fin coming ... been waiting on that for a long time. Thanks for this. I'll keep you posted.
Great seeing your reviews! If you ever start wing surfing, I find that due to bouyancy of the bigger. thicker wings, it's useful to have more bouyancy in the board so that body weight can centre the foil underneath without having to spare a hand to right the board.
You mentioned a bit about glide distance: at least in airplanes, weight does not affect glide distance, but it does affect the speed at which you glide that distance. The heavier you load a glider the faster it's optimum glide speed. I imagine the same physics applies to the glide board.
I have been wanting to get one of these to tow behind our boat. I have an air chair and love it. What is the best way to purchase the same board and foil you like? Love the video. Super helpful.
Hey I really enjoy your videos! I plan to get the Axis 1150. I weight 58 kg and I heard under 60 kg the Axis 1010 would be better? I want to dock start and surf little waves. I want to use the 3'7 board from Indiana with 24 litre volume. Do you think that is a good idea ? Thanks for the great videos :)
Hi Yvi - Please email me at wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to help. I think you’re right to size down to 1010 or maybe even 910 (same foil section so similar lift to drag performance, with roughly same aspect ratio and just less area … which is needed for lighter riders to fly at higher speeds). 24L board should be good but you can go even less volume if you like. We like the 100cm dwarfcraft. If you’re in the US/Canada and purchase from REAL, Mackite or Greenhat, please us WAKETHIEF coupon code. We will send you a small gift. We make a small commission that supports our channel! Thanks for your support.
This looks like so much fun. Whats the top speed? Also, wouldn't you just need bigger/ wider wings or whatever the things under the water are called for longer distances? Lol can you tell im a noob? Wicked video tho 🍻
You’re not wrong! That’s exactly what we need. Max speed of this wing is about 6m/s pumping. Can go much faster with a kite or wing. We need bigger foils and that will unlock endless flight
Again, super interesting video thanks for doing it. I was wondering if you have any thoughts on the length of the mast and the impact on the pumping. What length are you using? I am wondering if using a 90cm is easier when you're tall (i am 6.3 1m93) the a 75cm for example, thanks!
I find the shortest possible mast the best. Will be stiffest, lightest and easier to use (less like walking on stilts). I believe only 25cm is needed to pump (highest to lowest point on mast while pumping), but obviously need a bit more than that to make it possible to ride with some room for error. Good luck!
Hi there. First time commenting but I've been watching most of your videos since I started researching foiling the past 2 months. I'm a total newbie never tried the sport at at all yet..but I'm super pumped to get started next spring out here in our BC Canada lakes near Whistler. I've had different feedback from people saying start really big SUP foil on a big board and big wings..and others say I'll never get it going on smaller lakes about 1 mile across..however the lake I have in mind gets consistent afternoon brisk winds that create a chop and steady 1-3" waves in middle..winds being 15-25 km / hr I've been told. Not interested in kits wings either. So many factors to consider when beginning and they vary much for everyone and the conditions their in. Also I'm 6'2 and about 210 lbs so a bigger rider..and 53 yrs with a new hip..but I'm hopeful of having success . I am at this point considering a small board maybe a touch bigger than yours at 4'4" range and a front wing in the 1500 cm range. I have portable canoe raft I can do dock starts from and get my raft to within a very short pumping range where waves are steady across this lake all summer long in the afternoons..so a bit of a downwind experience. I've also been taking note of your bungee starts and am considering connecting to an anchor point beyond the raft to give me propelled starts like you have . It's a lot to consider here but I wanted to share it with someone like yourself as I really appreciate your approach to lake foiling and how you break it all down. Any feedback us greatly appreciated. Thanks James
Hi James - Please connect with me on gmail: foilingny@gmail.com. I know some other BC foilers that might be able to help you navigate local shops, etc. A bungee is a must. Will help you learn how to pump before you learn to dock start. I agree with Rob below. You might want to go a bit bigger on the front wing area. I have limited wind winging experience, so can't recommend what board you should get, but when I have winged, I've used the 140L board shown in one clip in this video. Not fun for pumping, but was good for winging.
@@robadair Ok thanks guys I have looked at several wings in those bigger sizes up from 1800-2400 cm , although slower if you get going with a bit of wind, they are more likely going to enable me to get lift in the beginning.
I’ve yet to see anyone paddle start on flat water (with their hands), but I believe 30L (perhaps smaller) should be doable foiling in the ocean though I’m not an ocean expert. I’ve seen some folks on >100L boards use a paddle to generate enough speed to lift and then pump there after.
@@WakeThief Thank you for your reply! I will then have a look into the common ways how to lift a board on flat water next to getting towed in by a boat - which is not an option for me. Also getting pulled by a strechted rope as you do might not work for me.
I’m trying to purchase a full setup from axis using all your suggestions. I’m struggling to find a board thats close to your 10 liter advice on there website. I’m 160 lbs and looking to do all the activities you discuss. So my cart consists of wake thief addition foil package, but I’m not sure if 24 liter board “the smallest I see”will work fine. Do you have any thoughts on my conundrum? Your videos made this sport something I can visually grasp and the confidence to pull the trigger and make a purchase. Thanks.
Thank you for your vote of confidence, Jordan. Happy to chat. Our favorite axis board is the Tray 94, followed by Tray 110. Our current, overall, favorite is the Dwarfcraft 100. You can find it at REAL Watersports. If you use the “wakethief” coupon code we make a small commission. And please use wakethief22 coupon code at AXIS website. We will send you a hat & stickers. Thanks for your support! If you ever need anything, don’t hesitate to reach out at wakethief@icloud.com.
Yes. 1010 will be nicer for your weight. It will be easier to carve / control at 160lb. If you were willing to sacrifice carving for pumping, however, 1150 will allow you to go longer / farther.
Please check out our channel. We run and jump onto them from our docks. It is easier to learn being towed up, but once you advance to dock starting it’s a great and independent way to enjoy this sport
How large of a surface area do you recommend? I currently have a slingshot infinity(1534squared centimeters) and the cabrinha lift(1500cm) that we use kiting and behind the boat. I can pump it a little but not for long periods. I keep reading I need something over 2000 squared cm of surface area for the front wing. Im 200 pounds so im thinking bigger is better. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Hey Tim. happy to help. For dock starting, I think you need >1800sqcm if you're 190lb and if the wing is higher aspect, that even better (looks more like a glider). I'll be trying the slingshot 100cm soon, so will let you know if that works. In the meantime, please check out our Infinity 99 review on TH-cam. You can see my experience there moving up from smaller slingshot wings to that wing.
Fastest way to describe the movement is “much like a dolphin moving its body to push me forwards “ or you can loop around them again and give them the “there’s a little airplane down there that helps me fly”
Wow! I talked to someone last year also interested in that! How much do you and the kayak weigh? What speed do you want to fly at? Maybe email me if easier. Wakethief@icloud.com
Yes, it matters a lot. The channel has been dedicated to digging into this. We've introduced a scoring system to review different foils, and are starting down that path. If you'd like help navigating, in the meantime, please reach out at wakethief@icloud.com
You're welcome ... short is best. Nice and rigid. I have tried 90cm masts multiple times and I feel so much better on a 75cm. I also feel like you need to stick with one and not change so you can really place that wing near the surface and keep drag down ... by having less mast underwater.
What's your foil set-up? Axis 1150mm PNG Carbon Front Wing from the "pump and glide" section? I am wondering what the ideal Flat-Water Foil Set-Up for me (~70kg) would be? Great video!!
Yes. That’s what I like. At your weight, it might be a bit much in terms of lift, so you’d be surfing slower which isn’t bad, just a consideration. 1010 and 910 have same foil section, so could be an option.
@@WakeThief And in terms other other/cheaper brands? a complete Axis setup would cost more than twise as much as the Neilpride and Duotone Foils I am using and loving?
Thanks Michael. I paid $1600 for my axis foil and $600 for my slingshot board. I’ve paid as little as $1600 for a complete setup. I’ll share the details in tomorrow’s video. Thanks for the comment. There is a wide range of price.
@@WakeThief Just got to $1600 via the "build your own S-Series Foil as well :). Regarding the following four parameters I was insecure: 1. Aluminum Mast Length: for windsurf-foil and kitefoil I use 85-95cm masts, but what length should I go for in terms of lake-pumping? 2. What does 16mm and 19mm refer to when talking about the Aluminum Mast? 3. Rear Wing size if I don't depend on stability coming from the rear wing, go for the mid-size 400mm? 4. What Fuselage length provides efficient pumping? 🙋♂️
@@michaelkihn1305 I like 75cm. Shorter is more rigid. No need for long mast when no waves. 19mm is better thickness of mast. More rigid. Please check out my rear wing video from last week. Many good options. I like 460mm. Short fuselage. Check out video that will launch in 1 hour. Will answer all this! Good luck.
Slingshot's new 2021 line has a 100cm micro which is 4 inches shorter than this one! Are you considering getting into wing foiling? I'm considering getting into it but would appreciate some of your in depth research videos on it as well. Anyways thanks for the great info!
Thanks, Aaron. I did see that one. It would be the one I'd get if I were in the market for a new one! I have wing foiled, but the lake I live on / test foils is just too calm. Makes it perfect for lake foiling, but crappy for winging. I am going to go to other lakes in the summer of 2021 and do some winging videos, but unfortunately I won't have anything until then. Great suggestion!
@@WakeThief Good to know! Yeah I would be doing it 70% on a lake in Alabama and the other 30% in the gulf. That's why I am hesitate myself. Big investment on bigger board and wing to not know for sure how well it would perform here. Thanks for your help!
Thank you for the review... No wonder it is so hard to pump my 112 liter Reedin board!!.. lol... As a wing foiler, it is NOT as important, but still it matters... I will not even try until I am at the level of wing foiling with about 20 liter range board... 🙄☺️
"Like an animal" had me laughing hard. I'm surprised you said something and didn't save every ounce of energy. I love the micro too, very responsive! Have you ever used foot straps with that board? Makes MY pumping easier but doubt if you need it as you can pump it like an animal! Lol
Lol. Thanks Serge. Yes, I've tried the straps, but they're not placed in the spot I want them, so can't really make good use of them. I hope you're well. Thx for the comment.
"I'm pumping it like an animal,"... totally something I would have said at the spur of the moment. My coworkers think I'm crazy for laughing like a hyena in my office when I saw this.
Folks often speak to a "sweet-spot" on board akin to a tennis racket. Said differently, an area of control - often slightly larger board more forgiving, etc. Is there a pt. of diminishing returns (say you went sub 3 ft) whereas the board is just too twitchy/sensitive that it makes it nearly impossible to ride if you foot/weight placement is not perfect, etc.?
It's a great point. In the same way, I complain about swing weight, it does dampen the pumping motion. A little bit like how pumping a super short fuse and small wing takes more precise control and energy, I suspect the same is true for boards. Thanks for this.
5mph isn't enough, but 8mph is. You might be able to get away with 6mph if you're light (2400sqcm). Let me know if I can help you figure this out. wakethief@icloud.com
I'm always surprised by the speed you can reach by pumping! Basic efoils need a 3kW motor. Our legs cannot provide more than 500W for a short time... Is accelerating suddendly a foil (what we do by pumping...) more efficient to provide lift and speed, than a motor (and blades) which maintains a constant speed of the foil?
Yea, but only because the efoil has a lot more underwater drag than a classic foil and because an efoil has the extra weight which requires you to fly a bit faster without stalling.
The bungee came from Horue in France. It’s called a catapult. I paid ~$200 including shipping. I think it would be possible to make it if you found three 50ft lengths of 0.5” diameter bungee cord provided it can elongate to 220% safely.
hi, which set would you recommend to beginner which will do his firsts steps with this board at 1:46 . i weigh nearly 75-80kg . i would like to swimm on lake, baltic sea etc what should got perfect set for me? thank you for your help
It’s a great idea! Unfortunately the placement of the front foot strap is a bit behind where I need it if I want to keep feet evenly loaded. Gonna try to find another board that will accommodate that though. Thanks for the idea
@@WakeThief no worries, love your videos on the high aspect style wings. Have you tried any GONG products? The veloce is their high aspect wing. I'm interested in them for higher speed wingfoiling 🤙
@@WakeThief are you planning on testing any other boards for real? It’s a lot of money to spend for all this testing but looks like you’re already aware of that haha
Love the videos. One thought is that it seems you seem to ride the foil deeper in the water which i hear is less efficient though i'm not exactly clear why. Have you looked at mast depth in the water to see if that improves efficiency?
Excellent point. I totally agree. The clips I used in this video were some of my earlier videos, and I had the same reaction when making the video. I am fully convinced that a front wing near the surface has much less drag that a wing deeper in the water. I believe it's just less drag from the submerged part of the mast. I also found that small burst of low amplitude pumps with wing near the surface is more effective than high amplitude slower pumps. Thanks for the comment.
It's additionally a possibility that water displaced over the foil closer to the surface requires less lifting energy as the mass of water above the foil is reduced close to the surface.
I suspect it does for tow foiling (getting pulled into an ocean wave with a jet ski), but if you want to paddle from your stomach to surf (like conventional surfing), no ... you'll need a higher volume board that will plane more quickly ... ideally something >40L. Thanks for the question.
Thanks for the suggestion, Grant. We have tried this and now realized that the goal needs to be nearly straight legs and feet close together. Imagine doing a wall sit for 30min . The weight of ones' body is enough (without even introducing force to pump the board) to tire one out. But we can stand for 30min no problem. So, you're right, the leverage would help, but the tradeoff is the ability of your legs to hold your body weight when far apart.
Correct. The drag force slows the foil down to a point where it can’t generate lift and it falls out of the sky. We need to pump to keep the foil going
Moses T22 Carbon Reinforced Hydrofoil Board? Moses T22 is a super short foil board at just 109cm x 43.5cm. Thanks to its compact design and lightweight at only 1.9kg with Carbon-reinforced for durable construction, it's a perfect travel companion. It provides lots of control in all conditions and riding styles - from wave riding and pumping sessions to cruising, freeriding, and airtime.
I think that will work great! This is the exact board for the 2021 model year. Recommend the 100: greenhatkiteboarding.com/products/2021-slingshot-dwarftcraft-foilboard?sub_id=ghwt
im pumping it like an animal was deffenetly the best thing annyone could say ever
LOL. Glad you liked it. I didn't know what to say. After saying it, I realized how I actually didn't understand how pumping worked!
This is dope keep pumping it like an animal!
😂 I should’ve left that out of the video.
@@WakeThief yea my guy probably, I would describe it as pumping up a tire
@@Bruh-gc7rd good one!
*inhale* “BY OSCILLATING THE HYDROFOIL UP AND DOWN THE LIFT COMPONENT VECTOR CAN BE INCLINED IN THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL” *gasp*
Cool video by the way, I didn’t even know this was a thing!
Lol! Thanks for this. If I can ever help; let me know
I love the response you gave to those kyackers. Haha I'm pumping like an animal! 🤣
There has to be a response! I'm an engineer, not a marine biologist, so I blanked on animals ... dolphin, I think seems to the consensus answer I'm hearing. Thanks for the comment, Hunter!
I love the response to...😁
That was the BEST ANSWER! I nearly rolled on the floor laughing.. But the answer is so true and accurate! 🤣 Great job as always!
@@jrussomann thanks! Appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment.
I thought you made some sort of beasteality joke.
this is great, its like a science experiment to discover a totally new sport.
Thank you, Anthony. I just had that realization recently. The more we dig in and try things, the more we're learning. Our recent mission is to try to simplify the learning experience so everyone can experience this feeling we know and love! Thanks for the comment.
I’m obsessed with this . I saw a vid on tiktok and now I’m hooked . I want a board so bad .
Pls email me at wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to help! What’s your weight? Boardsports skill level? How do you want to use it?
Rigid, thin, little air resistance, and a tail kick are what I imagine the perfect board would be and it looks like ur setup is all of those except the tail kick. I recently just went from a 4'0 36L board (very thick and no deck concave) to a 4'8 29L board (very thin with a front strap and deck concave). I have to say the 4'8 pumps about the same, in short distances even better (I might attribute this to the strap allowing more aggressive pumping). I even feel as though I gain some extra torque with my front foot being further away from the mast.
My advice for the 3 minute setup: pump your little board with a paddle in your hands and use a front foot strap. It looks like a lot of sup riders are using it to their advantage. But again this brings up the age old question, should you be measuring your flights in distance or in time? I personally think distance. Since your goal is to achieve unlimited flight you need a fast board that can get you from wake to wake in the least amount of time, once at the wake you can regain energy and the process continues of wake hopping and energy recover. I have experienced this recently, I have a foil with extreme amount of lift but soooo slow. Since it's slow I am killing myself to get to the next wave. My other foil (super fast) I can cover more distance in less time and therefore seemingly always be on a wave. Sorry if I'm being a bit of a broken record.. Awesome videos! Without a doubt you produce the most structured, scientific, well documented surf foil research that is available to the public right now!
Matthew! Awesome suggestions. The front foot strap isn't in the right spot on my board, but I really like that idea ... like a cyclist with clip in pedals! I will measure in distance now that I can with Apple Watch. It's just easier to measure time than distance for this test. You're absolutely right. I am now wondering if I can actually go further by going slower ... power needed to overcome drag is the cubic of velocity, so if I slow down a bit, my exertion goes way down, and maybe our distance further ... like the tortoise and hare! Thanks again for these suggestions. I'll let you know how it goes.
@@WakeThief Excited for whats to come!
@@WakeThief it is sqare with velocity not cubic ;) I think the way will be: go faster, go further, build better foils with thinner profiles and same energy requirement and lift (it will stall earlier, but this is managable )
Power is cube & force is square, no?
@@WakeThief oh sorry, just read "... drag is the cubic of velocity" my fault -.-
Love that you shred all seasons, Rain or shine! Or Snow 🤘🏼
Thank you!
Almost heaven, West Virginia
Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River
Life is old there, older than the trees
Younger than the mountains, growin' like a breeze
Take me home
I used to work in hydraulics. When we had to manually pump something, not with external power, we would describe it as 'mandraulic' 😊
A good pumping description might be "im pushing the board down and the fins underneath it are causing resistance in the water which then pushes me back upwards" or if thats too long, "I push down and forward then the fins/water pushes me back up"
That's super good! I'll use that in future videos. Thank you.
Would it be almost like a bird flapping it's wings but in water?
I just discovered this, it looks fun
Yes! Well said. If I can help, let me know. Wakethief@icloud.com
The board you are using I kite foiled with for about one year. I then moved to a Kanaha Shapes board which was even shorter and lighter. Amazing board. Now i'm riding a friends custom design which is similar to the KS but with more rocker for kiting. Try the KS i think you will like it.
Oliver! Thank you. I will take a closer look. I appreciate the comment.
Thank you for posting. A great report with little wasted time.
Thanks, Jeff!
Great video! Sick skills! Can’t wait to pioneer this in my town!
Awesome! Thank you. If I can help in any way, please let me know. Wakethief@icloud.com
I don't pump but kitefoil. I have to say though I enjoy your videos. I appreciate the detail, thoroughness and effort and the narration is top shelf. Please keep it up.
Have you given any thought to using some kind of handlebars on your boards? If you had one handlebar on the front and one on the back, it seems like this would allow you to pump harder. The bar stem could either be rigid (like a steel tube) or soft (like a rope or cable).
(I say this as a former skateboarder who experimented with all different kinds of set ups back in the 1970s, including screwing a T-shaped handlebar onto the front of our boards, making them behave somewhat like the two wheel Razor-type scooters that came out about 10 years ago. Doing this certainly made jumping on and off curbs easier. It also made it more difficult to fall off the board.) I hope you'll consider giving this a try.
Such a clever idea, thank you! I have never heard this one. I think you’re right. There aren’t that many muscles we can fully utilize when pumping. This would help. Appreciate you sharing.
Thanks mann, i was thinking the bigger the better. Really glad ive found you B4. I appreciate❤
Haha. I have got that question a lot of times too...but never gave that answer. Gonna remember :)
Ha! Best response I’ve been recommended in the comments is a dolphin swimming
I didn't even know self-propelled hydrofoiling was a thing. Thanks for sharing.
No problem! Thanks for the comment.
Another great video! Just about to buy a new board and I made my choice! 👍 thank you!
Great! Glad you enjoyed it.
Dude you rule. You do this in winter -- There is snow ? Thats dedication ..
Lol! Thanks for the comment, Finn. We’re a bit nuts. th-cam.com/video/-RFXBMPSbOA/w-d-xo.html
Have you considered Pumping with a single front strap or front and back strap? I think it would give you more leverage, or would you consider it cheating??? Enjoy watching your reviews!
Thank you. It’s a great reminder. Yes I have tried it but the front strap location is not ideal so I need to try another board. I think it would help too! Onto a new board!
Thanks for the video. Newest lineup for Dwarfcraft has 3 sizes:
100cm / 3ft, 3,5" (11L)
110cm / 3ft, 7,5" (14L)
120cm / 3ft, 11" (24L)
What's your height, and which would you lean towards of these for dockstart pumping?
Smallest :) I believe that will be the next board I buy
I’m 6’2” 190lb
@@WakeThief Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! Personally looking for a board to learn pumping as my Efoil or 6'11 FreeFoil is far from optimal.
Would absolutely take the 100cm Dwarfcraft if not for my 6'8" frame and size14 feet, however it looks like there is room for a wider stance based on your video @ 0:35sec. Do you feel like you have plenty of room to stand on, or would you strongly recommend someone taller to at a longer board?
Hey Sven. Plenty of room for your feet. I would got with the 110 or 120 though. There isn’t that much value to go from 110 to 100. Mine is 106.
Legend has it he still pumping it
LOL
A key attribute not addressed is the stiffness. The dwarf craft is a nice board and I agree with the positive attributes around size for carving and maneuverability but without carbon stringers it feels a bit damp. All carbon boards such as FFB Whip have more responsiveness and power transfer. It's hard to beat the Armstrong SKT311 which has a sandwich of 8 layers of carbon that make it stiff and super efficient for pump energy transfer.
Thank you, Tim! Donny Martin just shared the same. It's great input. Exactly what I was seeking. Thanks for sharing your expertise with me, so I can find the pumping machine I'm looking for!
I just found your review. I'll take a look at it.
For everyone else here, here's HALF-LIFE's SKT311 review: th-cam.com/video/GxWgNsbkOBM/w-d-xo.html
@@WakeThief Thank you.
I love all of your videos. Great work. Next step would be pumping with a handheld wing while hydrofoiling in light winds :D
Yea! That should help endless flight. Thanks for the comment, Christian.
Great response! I cracked up🤣
Lol. Glad you liked it. I hope you're well, Skaleezay!
I got my 2021 100cm Dwarfcraft yesterday and tried it out today behind the boat with my SPG 1260 sq cm foil and it was fantastic . Could ride the 2nd wake and also pumped so much better than my Freedom Foil Board Whip which is 17L and 5cm thick . I think the 3.3cm thickness of the Dwarfcraft and of course the low volume 11L are the keys to its success.
I set the foil all the way to the back which is what is often advised for these super short boards but noticed that you set yours quite a ways forward. But I definitely noticed that I was back foot heavy so maybe I should also set it more forward!
Awesome! I really like to minimize swing weight while pumping so put foil near front of track. No right answer here. Just preference. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the reply. Do you think a carbon mast would significantly improve pump performance?
I've yet to try a carbon mast that feels as stiff as a thick aluminum mast. I think we will need even thicker masts if we want to go higher in wingspan
You probably have a little extra air resistance with the larger board too which adds to wasted energy. But extended mass is likely the dominant cause of the wasted energy.
nice, what would happen with a longer column (distance between board and foil), you could do less but harder pumps? maybe faster since accelerate down?
This looks like so much fun! I’ve got to try it.
if you bring your feet closer together over the stem of the foil you'll generate more power with each pump. Also relaxing your upper body so you can use your weight with your legs like you're a big weighted piston
The way I understand how the Skateboard broke was by trying to get 1st up by being towed... I think you should try a Skateboard with the foil on it using your dock starter. If I had a nice foil to dock start, Id try a the skateboard...right now trying to decide what foil to buy for dock starting. I got SlingShot Gamma and Naish Thruster foils for windsurfing but so far neither brand offer a foil like the Axis and Indianna that you already tested. Thinking about getting the Kujira or DockStarter though. Thanks for all the info videos.
If I can help you down select, please let me know ...wakethief@icloud.com. Your point about starting on dock starter is brilliant. You're right. It broke during the water start, and I think you're right ... it would work off the dock starter. Thank you!
This is awesome! Just curious, what do you do if you fall in the middle of the lake? Also, how far can you go with some practice without getting tired?
Thanks Tanner. Unfortunately, a wipeout far from your dock requires a long swim home. I had a 15min swim the day before the lake froze and it was cold :) 200m in about a minute is fine but 600m in 2.5min is complete exhaustion.
Axis Tray 110 looks like a good option, have you tried one yet?
I have not tried one. I think you're right though.
@@WakeThief I just ordered one, I couldn't resist.
Porpoising! As a dolphin swims
Perfect! Love it. I should watch some dolphin videos and see what I can learn about how to pump better! Thanks for the comment.
@@WakeThief Porpoising is also the name of a flying technique used in cross-country gliding, but I think you're right that the cetacean meaning is more relevant to pump foiling.
“Pumping it like an animal” 😂 perfect response!!
Nice experiment, thanks for the info. Looksl ike a fun sport, have you thougt of getting a windsurf wing to use the wind force?
Yes. I’ve done it a couple of times. My lake isn’t windy enough. But when I venture out to windy lakes, it’s fun
Describe pumping using a credit card and some sand on a flat surface. Angle the card as you push it through the sand and it moves. The sand represents the water and the card represents the wing. That's how I finally understood lift and how angling a snow plow pushes the snow to a specific side
What size foil works best? does aspect ratio matter? I would think a short board like 30", but 20 " wide would work well. Volume of the board does not matter, so a short and thin light board would be good. Does foil weight matter?
Hi Heinz - I like 1800-2000sqcm area, and aspect ratio >7 (115cm or larger span). Lets me fly at a lower speed to reduce power so I can fly longer. High aspect ratio reduces drag. Board can be as short and light as you can get, as long as you can get out of the water on it. Foil weight doesn't matter that much. I prefer Aluminum mast because its stiffer and provides better power transfer during pumping.
I think this guy is doing some pioneer work, I enjoy his videos, and I'm sure we are going to see a lot of improvement in the next time ... I was wondering if a twin foil would make any difference
Thank you, by twin foil do you mean bi-plane?
@@WakeThief no, that would be sort of boxed wing ( please check bruce creations' channel on youtube)
What I meant: a long time ago I've seen some foils that used to have the same wing size and shape on both sides, they do not have the classic aircraft type shape like nowadays...
I guess the advantage would be you can change direction with the kite without turning or switching ... I guess that was the idea behind that concept, but I guess for pumping purpose that is not gonna work!
Thank you! I’ve reached out in the past. Will try again. I believe box wings do have potential as well!
Been dock starting on my oes Australia prone boards, which are thicker than these..... Both are 42l, and I wing in them too. The second one is lighter, thicker but 3" narrower. The difference in pumping into the wind is off the scale, tho I'm not sure if its the width reduction or the 400g weight saving, I'm suspecting both.... 1150 foil.
I’d like to see more short board options. Looking at a Kit board from Clearwater they have a small and smaller option wondering if the 2’11” peanut would be a wake thieving tool of glide.
I’ve been wondering the same thing. I’d guess it works well. If you order jt, please let me know. Thanks. Wakethief@icloud.com
Thanks for your videos + explanations- now I know I want to try it. But two questions please . 1) How difficultt it is to learn ? Like learning snowboarding for example ? 2) With your small board it seems to be easier to pump , but I wonder if you could lay onto this small board and swim back when you have fallen in the water in the middle of the lake ? I guess with a bigger board it might be easier to swim back onto it. Many thanks. Greetings from Switzerland.
Hello! Please reach out to me at wakethief@icloud.com. I know some Swiss foilers I can intro you to. 1) it isn’t easy to learn but like anything you’re passionate about, learning can be fun. (2) exactly right. More fun to pump a small board. Both big and small boards leave you stranded in the water however. Thanks for the comment.
@@WakeThief thanks
Hi . I have seen that you also tested the INDIANA 1100P. Which one would you prefer for your preferences of lake pump foiling? ( 1,81m / 78 kg/ Beginner/ Lake/ dockstart hopefully in the future :-) , Again thanks in advance....
Looks super smooth. Just of curiosity, how much distance can you do before you get exhausted? I am windsurfing and wavesurfing but looking at your video I need to update the gears!!!
Thanks for the comment, Jonas. The longest distance pump is 600-700m. Now I have an Apple Watch so will be able to precisely measure vs use landmarks and google distance. I am convinced that technique and equipment matter most then fitness, though all three are needed. Thanks
@Wake Thief Great videos! Thank you! I looked into foil pumping 1-2 years ago and was advised by one company that this is only for pros who live and breath water sports year round. Thanks for proving them wrong. Did you have a chance to review the Kanaha Shapes Board? How would this compare with the Dwarfcraft Slingshot 100cm, or the Axis Tray 94? Also, have you ever considered/tried using some sort of propulsion system attached to the bottom of the board just to get started? Is there a propulsion system that would be light enough to secure to the board?
Robbie! Great questions ... I have not tried the Kanaha shape boards, but should reach out. Thank you. This foil drive system is close to the propulsion system you describe. th-cam.com/video/jp6-l2-LZOM/w-d-xo.html. I have a boost surf fin coming ... been waiting on that for a long time. Thanks for this. I'll keep you posted.
Great seeing your reviews! If you ever start wing surfing, I find that due to bouyancy of the bigger. thicker wings, it's useful to have more bouyancy in the board so that body weight can centre the foil underneath without having to spare a hand to right the board.
That's a great tip, Graham. Thanks. Makes sense. Appreciate you taking the time to write a comment.
You mentioned a bit about glide distance: at least in airplanes, weight does not affect glide distance, but it does affect the speed at which you glide that distance. The heavier you load a glider the faster it's optimum glide speed.
I imagine the same physics applies to the glide board.
Yes, it does. Here's a description of the testing we're doing. I'd love your feedback on this approach: th-cam.com/video/Ueb5mMOMt-8/w-d-xo.html
I wonder if a carbon mast and fuselage would improve rigidity - energy transfer .Great video and commitment keep it up.
It’s a really good thought and something I will try. I have a feeling rigidity is under rated and more valuable than I appreciate. Thank you.
I'm pumping like an animal left her speechless 😂😂😂 whoah that was funny lol
Lol. Glad you liked it.
This is so cool, you griddy when you are pro
They have a similar craft back in the day.
This is going to be my new sport. I am so tired of crowded surf lineups.
If I can ever help, please let me know!
Keeping the overall weight of the system low without sacrificing too much volume or width of the board would seem to the best compromise, yes?
Yes. Exactly right.
Hey cool video! Do you need to pump if a river has enough flow?
Yes. You’d still need to pump but you would be moving slower or standing still.
I got an idea why not have a rope at the front to grab onto and help with the weight distribution, it will get you way more leverage at the front.
Gosh, that's an interesting idea. Someone also mentioned pumping with dumbbells. I need all the help I can get. Thanks for the thought!
I have been wanting to get one of these to tow behind our boat. I have an air chair and love it. What is the best way to purchase the same board and foil you like? Love the video. Super helpful.
Please email me at foilingny@gmail.com and I can help you select components on axis foils website and buy the board at slingshots website
Hey I really enjoy your videos!
I plan to get the Axis 1150. I weight 58 kg and I heard under 60 kg the Axis 1010 would be better?
I want to dock start and surf little waves.
I want to use the 3'7 board from Indiana with 24 litre volume. Do you think that is a good idea ?
Thanks for the great videos :)
Hi Yvi - Please email me at wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to help. I think you’re right to size down to 1010 or maybe even 910 (same foil section so similar lift to drag performance, with roughly same aspect ratio and just less area … which is needed for lighter riders to fly at higher speeds). 24L board should be good but you can go even less volume if you like. We like the 100cm dwarfcraft. If you’re in the US/Canada and purchase from REAL, Mackite or Greenhat, please us WAKETHIEF coupon code. We will send you a small gift. We make a small commission that supports our channel! Thanks for your support.
Wait, what's wrong with using a skateboard deck? I was gonna try it
Just really hard to start with the lift of the foil only. Board planing before foil takeoff is a lot easier
This looks like so much fun. Whats the top speed? Also, wouldn't you just need bigger/ wider wings or whatever the things under the water are called for longer distances? Lol can you tell im a noob? Wicked video tho 🍻
You’re not wrong! That’s exactly what we need. Max speed of this wing is about 6m/s pumping. Can go much faster with a kite or wing. We need bigger foils and that will unlock endless flight
This is great! Are you able to water start off shore without a boat tow?
You bet! It’s called a dock start. Check it out here: th-cam.com/video/CrUC5cr2ooE/w-d-xo.html
Again, super interesting video thanks for doing it. I was wondering if you have any thoughts on the length of the mast and the impact on the pumping. What length are you using? I am wondering if using a 90cm is easier when you're tall (i am 6.3 1m93) the a 75cm for example, thanks!
I find the shortest possible mast the best. Will be stiffest, lightest and easier to use (less like walking on stilts). I believe only 25cm is needed to pump (highest to lowest point on mast while pumping), but obviously need a bit more than that to make it possible to ride with some room for error. Good luck!
@@WakeThief thanks interesting feedback!
do you thing you could get the slingshot (your favorite board) up and flying with a wing?
I don’t think so. I’ve seen some folks get 50L boards out of the water, but I think 10L would be w stretch.
Hi there.
First time commenting but I've been watching most of your videos since I started researching foiling the past 2 months.
I'm a total newbie never tried the sport at at all yet..but I'm super pumped to get started next spring out here in our BC Canada lakes near Whistler.
I've had different feedback from people saying start really big SUP foil on a big board and big wings..and others say I'll never get it going on smaller lakes about 1 mile across..however the lake I have in mind gets consistent afternoon brisk winds that create a chop and steady 1-3" waves in middle..winds being 15-25 km / hr I've been told.
Not interested in kits wings either.
So many factors to consider when beginning and they vary much for everyone and the conditions their in.
Also I'm 6'2 and about 210 lbs so a bigger rider..and 53 yrs with a new hip..but I'm hopeful of having success .
I am at this point considering a small board maybe a touch bigger than yours at 4'4" range and a front wing in the 1500 cm range.
I have portable canoe raft I can do dock starts from and get my raft to within a very short pumping range where waves are steady across this lake all summer long in the afternoons..so a bit of a downwind experience.
I've also been taking note of your bungee starts and am considering connecting to an anchor point beyond the raft to give me propelled starts like you have .
It's a lot to consider here but I wanted to share it with someone like yourself as I really appreciate your approach to lake foiling and how you break it all down.
Any feedback us greatly appreciated.
Thanks
James
James, I think you want a much bigger foil, 2000 cm2 or more at your size.
Hi James - Please connect with me on gmail: foilingny@gmail.com. I know some other BC foilers that might be able to help you navigate local shops, etc. A bungee is a must. Will help you learn how to pump before you learn to dock start. I agree with Rob below. You might want to go a bit bigger on the front wing area. I have limited wind winging experience, so can't recommend what board you should get, but when I have winged, I've used the 140L board shown in one clip in this video. Not fun for pumping, but was good for winging.
@@robadair Ok thanks guys I have looked at several wings in those bigger sizes up from 1800-2400 cm , although slower if you get going with a bit of wind, they are more likely going to enable me to get lift in the beginning.
@@WakeThief Super, will be in touch thanks.
Just WOW! Short question though, what would be the shortest board you could start/ pop up (on a lake) by paddling?
I’ve yet to see anyone paddle start on flat water (with their hands), but I believe 30L (perhaps smaller) should be doable foiling in the ocean though I’m not an ocean expert. I’ve seen some folks on >100L boards use a paddle to generate enough speed to lift and then pump there after.
@@WakeThief Thank you for your reply! I will then have a look into the common ways how to lift a board on flat water next to getting towed in by a boat - which is not an option for me.
Also getting pulled by a strechted rope as you do might not work for me.
Can’t wait to see you start by catching a wave in the ocean!! I know you can do it
I’ve never surfed a foil in the ocean. I think I’ll struggle popping up and paddling in … two muscle memories I dont have! Thanks for the comment
I’m trying to purchase a full setup from axis using all your suggestions. I’m struggling to find a board thats close to your 10 liter advice on there website. I’m 160 lbs and looking to do all the activities you discuss. So my cart consists of wake thief addition foil package, but I’m not sure if 24 liter board “the smallest I see”will work fine. Do you have any thoughts on my conundrum? Your videos made this sport something I can visually grasp and the confidence to pull the trigger and make a purchase. Thanks.
Thank you for your vote of confidence, Jordan. Happy to chat. Our favorite axis board is the Tray 94, followed by Tray 110. Our current, overall, favorite is the Dwarfcraft 100. You can find it at REAL Watersports. If you use the “wakethief” coupon code we make a small commission. And please use wakethief22 coupon code at AXIS website. We will send you a hat & stickers. Thanks for your support! If you ever need anything, don’t hesitate to reach out at wakethief@icloud.com.
Last question, front wing. Looks like 1010 is right for my size. Or would you recommend the 1150?
Yes. 1010 will be nicer for your weight. It will be easier to carve / control at 160lb. If you were willing to sacrifice carving for pumping, however, 1150 will allow you to go longer / farther.
Like a dolphin kick!
Can you launch these things without assistance or do you need something to tow you to get going?
Please check out our channel. We run and jump onto them from our docks. It is easier to learn being towed up, but once you advance to dock starting it’s a great and independent way to enjoy this sport
How large of a surface area do you recommend? I currently have a slingshot infinity(1534squared centimeters) and the cabrinha lift(1500cm) that we use kiting and behind the boat. I can pump it a little but not for long periods. I keep reading I need something over 2000 squared cm of surface area for the front wing. Im 200 pounds so im thinking bigger is better. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Hey Tim. happy to help. For dock starting, I think you need >1800sqcm if you're 190lb and if the wing is higher aspect, that even better (looks more like a glider). I'll be trying the slingshot 100cm soon, so will let you know if that works. In the meantime, please check out our Infinity 99 review on TH-cam. You can see my experience there moving up from smaller slingshot wings to that wing.
Fastest way to describe the movement is “much like a dolphin moving its body to push me forwards “ or you can loop around them again and give them the “there’s a little airplane down there that helps me fly”
Yes! I eventually got it a bit more right! Thank you. th-cam.com/users/shorts0o3200wI_X0?feature=share
Planning on hydrofoiling a racing kayak, any foils you would recommend
Wow! I talked to someone last year also interested in that! How much do you and the kayak weigh? What speed do you want to fly at? Maybe email me if easier. Wakethief@icloud.com
So how many pounds is your favorite board and foil added up.
What about the difference of the size of the mast or foils. some have to be more efficient than others for pumping. which are the best.
Yes, it matters a lot. The channel has been dedicated to digging into this. We've introduced a scoring system to review different foils, and are starting down that path. If you'd like help navigating, in the meantime, please reach out at wakethief@icloud.com
What lake are you on?
Great. A piece of advice, have you tried cabrinha fusion x wings? What size do you recommend for great glide an pumping for 90kg?
1950 has most area and highest aspect ratio. I’d anticipate it to be easiest to pump long distance / duration and easiest to dock start. Good luck!
Seems like a lot of fun, but why is it so expensive?
I believe it’s expensive because the scale is small. There isn’t a lot of hydrofoils out there.
What have you found to be the optimal mast length for pumping? (And what's your lenght as reference, since it likely relates to rider length?)
I saw you previous response now, thanks!
You're welcome ... short is best. Nice and rigid. I have tried 90cm masts multiple times and I feel so much better on a 75cm. I also feel like you need to stick with one and not change so you can really place that wing near the surface and keep drag down ... by having less mast underwater.
What's your foil set-up? Axis 1150mm PNG Carbon Front Wing from the "pump and glide" section? I am wondering what the ideal Flat-Water Foil Set-Up for me (~70kg) would be? Great video!!
Yes. That’s what I like. At your weight, it might be a bit much in terms of lift, so you’d be surfing slower which isn’t bad, just a consideration. 1010 and 910 have same foil section, so could be an option.
@@WakeThief And in terms other other/cheaper brands? a complete Axis setup would cost more than twise as much as the Neilpride and Duotone Foils I am using and loving?
Thanks Michael. I paid $1600 for my axis foil and $600 for my slingshot board. I’ve paid as little as $1600 for a complete setup. I’ll share the details in tomorrow’s video. Thanks for the comment. There is a wide range of price.
@@WakeThief Just got to $1600 via the "build your own S-Series Foil as well :). Regarding the following four parameters I was insecure: 1. Aluminum Mast Length: for windsurf-foil and kitefoil I use 85-95cm masts, but what length should I go for in terms of lake-pumping? 2. What does 16mm and 19mm refer to when talking about the Aluminum Mast? 3. Rear Wing size if I don't depend on stability coming from the rear wing, go for the mid-size 400mm? 4. What Fuselage length provides efficient pumping? 🙋♂️
@@michaelkihn1305 I like 75cm. Shorter is more rigid. No need for long mast when no waves. 19mm is better thickness of mast. More rigid. Please check out my rear wing video from last week. Many good options. I like 460mm. Short fuselage. Check out video that will launch in 1 hour. Will answer all this! Good luck.
what can you say regarding inflatable boards?
I am an amateur. Do any of these pumping foils glide if you stop pumping or slow your pumping motions
Yea. Some glide better than others. If you start the glide at a higher speed, you’ll also glide further.
Slingshot's new 2021 line has a 100cm micro which is 4 inches shorter than this one! Are you considering getting into wing foiling? I'm considering getting into it but would appreciate some of your in depth research videos on it as well. Anyways thanks for the great info!
Thanks, Aaron. I did see that one. It would be the one I'd get if I were in the market for a new one! I have wing foiled, but the lake I live on / test foils is just too calm. Makes it perfect for lake foiling, but crappy for winging. I am going to go to other lakes in the summer of 2021 and do some winging videos, but unfortunately I won't have anything until then. Great suggestion!
@@WakeThief Good to know! Yeah I would be doing it 70% on a lake in Alabama and the other 30% in the gulf. That's why I am hesitate myself. Big investment on bigger board and wing to not know for sure how well it would perform here. Thanks for your help!
@@akelly1983 pls let me know if I can help. Foilingny@gmail.com & @foilingny on Facebook.
Thank you for the review... No wonder it is so hard to pump my 112 liter Reedin board!!.. lol... As a wing foiler, it is NOT as important, but still it matters... I will not even try until I am at the level of wing foiling with about 20 liter range board... 🙄☺️
Yes! Pumping these large boards is unbelievably hard compared to the
Have you tried the 80 cm Naish microchip?
I haven’t
"Like an animal" had me laughing hard. I'm surprised you said something and didn't save every ounce of energy.
I love the micro too, very responsive! Have you ever used foot straps with that board? Makes MY pumping easier but doubt if you need it as you can pump it like an animal! Lol
Lol. Thanks Serge. Yes, I've tried the straps, but they're not placed in the spot I want them, so can't really make good use of them. I hope you're well. Thx for the comment.
"I'm pumping it like an animal,"... totally something I would have said at the spur of the moment. My coworkers think I'm crazy for laughing like a hyena in my office when I saw this.
There’s thousands of these going around now too. Lol.
www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNPCnqJu/
Folks often speak to a "sweet-spot" on board akin to a tennis racket. Said differently, an area of control - often slightly larger board more forgiving, etc. Is there a pt. of diminishing returns (say you went sub 3 ft) whereas the board is just too twitchy/sensitive that it makes it nearly impossible to ride if you foot/weight placement is not perfect, etc.?
It's a great point. In the same way, I complain about swing weight, it does dampen the pumping motion. A little bit like how pumping a super short fuse and small wing takes more precise control and energy, I suspect the same is true for boards. Thanks for this.
What lake is this ? I live in Manhattan and want to practice my pumping. Hudson is too gross : )
How fast does a boat need to be going to use their wake to propel you? I’m thinking about buying one but at my marina boats can’t go over 5mph.
5mph isn't enough, but 8mph is. You might be able to get away with 6mph if you're light (2400sqcm). Let me know if I can help you figure this out. wakethief@icloud.com
I'm always surprised by the speed you can reach by pumping!
Basic efoils need a 3kW motor. Our legs cannot provide more than 500W for a short time...
Is accelerating suddendly a foil (what we do by pumping...) more efficient to provide lift and speed, than a motor (and blades) which maintains a constant speed of the foil?
Yea, but only because the efoil has a lot more underwater drag than a classic foil and because an efoil has the extra weight which requires you to fly a bit faster without stalling.
Love your videos! I want to make my own bungee cord to use at my local lake where motor boats are banned. Can you tell me how you made it please?
The bungee came from Horue in France. It’s called a catapult. I paid ~$200 including shipping. I think it would be possible to make it if you found three 50ft lengths of 0.5” diameter bungee cord provided it can elongate to 220% safely.
I’m pumping like an animal… excellent ! ….. 🤩
hi, which set would you recommend to beginner which will do his firsts steps with this board at 1:46 . i weigh nearly 75-80kg . i would like to swimm on lake, baltic sea etc
what should got perfect set for me?
thank you for your help
Please email me. Wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to help. Please check this out too. th-cam.com/video/jzM7ocflVXQ/w-d-xo.html
A front footstrap or slingshot foot hook to 'pull up' with would likely really extend your pump times?
It’s a great idea! Unfortunately the placement of the front foot strap is a bit behind where I need it if I want to keep feet evenly loaded. Gonna try to find another board that will accommodate that though. Thanks for the idea
@@WakeThief no worries, love your videos on the high aspect style wings. Have you tried any GONG products? The veloce is their high aspect wing. I'm interested in them for higher speed wingfoiling 🤙
I have not but will add them to my list. Thanks again!
You should get an Axis Tray 94 and an Armstrong 311 and compare to your Dwarf!
That’s a great suggestion, Gray. Thank you.
@@WakeThief are you planning on testing any other boards for real? It’s a lot of money to spend for all this testing but looks like you’re already aware of that haha
Love the videos. One thought is that it seems you seem to ride the foil deeper in the water which i hear is less efficient though i'm not exactly clear why. Have you looked at mast depth in the water to see if that improves efficiency?
Excellent point. I totally agree. The clips I used in this video were some of my earlier videos, and I had the same reaction when making the video. I am fully convinced that a front wing near the surface has much less drag that a wing deeper in the water. I believe it's just less drag from the submerged part of the mast. I also found that small burst of low amplitude pumps with wing near the surface is more effective than high amplitude slower pumps. Thanks for the comment.
It's additionally a possibility that water displaced over the foil closer to the surface requires less lifting energy as the mass of water above the foil is reduced close to the surface.
Thank you for this 😁. Do the same rules apply for ocean boards?
I suspect it does for tow foiling (getting pulled into an ocean wave with a jet ski), but if you want to paddle from your stomach to surf (like conventional surfing), no ... you'll need a higher volume board that will plane more quickly ... ideally something >40L. Thanks for the question.
What if you just widen your stance on a larger board to use that extra leverage.
Thanks for the suggestion, Grant. We have tried this and now realized that the goal needs to be nearly straight legs and feet close together. Imagine doing a wall sit for 30min . The weight of ones' body is enough (without even introducing force to pump the board) to tire one out. But we can stand for 30min no problem. So, you're right, the leverage would help, but the tradeoff is the ability of your legs to hold your body weight when far apart.
Why do you need to pump? Will it not work or go forward if you dont pump?
Correct. The drag force slows the foil down to a point where it can’t generate lift and it falls out of the sky. We need to pump to keep the foil going
Moses T22 Carbon Reinforced Hydrofoil Board? Moses T22 is a super short foil board at just 109cm x 43.5cm. Thanks to its compact design and lightweight at only 1.9kg with Carbon-reinforced for durable construction, it's a perfect travel companion. It provides lots of control in all conditions and riding styles - from wave riding and pumping sessions to cruising, freeriding, and airtime.
I think that will work great! This is the exact board for the 2021 model year. Recommend the 100: greenhatkiteboarding.com/products/2021-slingshot-dwarftcraft-foilboard?sub_id=ghwt
I'm pumping it like a animal 🤣 that was great rofl
Thanks. I'm sure I could've come up with something better.