that's the problem with the meme though, a lot of people do genuinely believe that. "pronouns in bio", "Ukraine flag in bio", "I'm not going to explain this to a fucking liberal" are all variants of the idea that you can write a person off entirely for just one bad take or being associated with one bad person.
Sexual violence is never permisable. Not just because its cruel but the person doing the raping is being handed a victim. Great way to guarentee abusers a legal avenue to hurt people. It's gross and if you are for it then it says A LOT about you.
The caller has the nerve to claim that he is anti-nationalist but at the same time basing his entire worldview on nationalities and ethnicities. What a joke.
not understanding the diff between descriptive and normative language is the death of this kind of 'leftism', vaush's the one playing cheap tricks here, you might be an anti-nationalist while acknowledging that nationalism is a powerful force in any kind of war situation, caller's question to v, if he would defend the u.s. against china, aims at the superficiality of ideological self-attributions when posed without any context
The guy’s worldview is so warped by nationalist exposure that he ended up making their same arguments. Sounded like the guy needed to touch some grass and take a break from browsing far-right forums..
Listening to him go on about how the conversation wasn’t circular was like listening to a guy in a pyramid scheme go on about how it isn’t a pyramid scheme.
@@manjackson2772 honestly I feel like this was more shocking, cus you know what you're getting yourself into when talking to mr girl. The lady cop rape shit came waaaaay out of left field
Everywhere outside of the US race is much more complicated than "black vs white". Polish people have been discriminated against to the extreme in European history, many of them being slaughtered and oppressed with lasting effects today. Europeans do not see eachother as all the same thing.
This chatter is the kind of guy capable of memorizing and accurately reciting historical facts, but also completely incapable of responsibly analyzing that information.
@@Sudupe16 for whatifashit the postmodernity is still ongoing and responsible for the attitude of the youth. The finely crafted boogieman that's around since the 60s.
Most of the things he brought up are standard Poli Sci 101 topics. Westphalian Sovereignty, Alsace-Lorraine, South Ossetia and other breakaway states. It actually makes it more embarrassing that he's clearly taken some undergrad political science, but he still doesn't understand how a nation-state is defined. Many multinational states exist that we still refer to as nation-states, the UK being the classic example.
@@nyahs6197 Well that really depends on what's your definition of normal and where u live. If you're American and you see non white person and think "ah that must be a foreigner" that'd be kinda weird and probably not how most Americans think but if you like in some more ethnically homogeneous country in Europe or like Japan and you see a black person absolute most majority of people there will think that must be a foreigner. You can define it as racist, xenophobic or whatever but you can't deny that in that country it's usual to think that way it's _the norm_ aka normal there. That part of the convo flustered me because Vaush was purposefully underestimating how deep rooted and far spread is nationalistic thinking about ethnicity, especially in Europe.
it's unfortunately true though, the guy absolutely had a point there. vaush is looking at this from a very american melting pot perspective. in germany, it is absolutely normal (normal does not equal good) to see a turkish-looking person and assign them as turkish, not as german - purely based on heritage and not place of birth or even nationality as reported in the passport. this kind of ethnicity-based nationalism is sadly very, very real and the caller absolutely had a point there. vaush was being incredibly obtuse and ignorant about this point, going as far as to say something along the lines of "I don't think about nationalism and ethnicity as much as you, must be a YOU problem" -- this is the exact fucking thing conservatives say when they try to argue that racism doesn't exist
As a Pole, I laughed histerically for couple of minutes at the „I’m not white, I’m Polish. That’s even worse” exchange. 10/10 from now on I will only identify as „worse than white”.
That's an very good point MrElionor, but I can't skip over the UPA flag in the background. Giving the benefit of doubt, do you realize the - at best - morally dubious history of the organization of Ukrainian nationalists, including anti-semitism, pogroms and participation in atrocities against civilians, e.g. the Volhynia massacre? Defending myself against potential accusations, I am fully in support of Ukraine and hate the Russian influence in Europe at large. But I also hate local far-right and nationalistic organizations. I'm thinking Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania etc. Cheers
@@SevenEightSE Damn, in Poland we got amazing meme about how people Ukraine and Poland would work together if russian paid shills stop screeching about Wołyń. Good thing we don't listen to them, and recieved shitload of refugees. Bandera boyz are the mirror image, antipolish resentiments are mostly distraction from antirussian resentiments.
“I don’t think you understand racism” while continuing to spearhead racist talking points you would hear from any typical Neo-Nazi. This dude is funny.
Speaking mandarin for example is not Han chinese culture. Even today, after years of pushing mandarin as a lingua franca only about 70% of all people who identify as Han speak mandarin as a mother tongue. People should really accept that they don't really know much about China. You can find a lot of things to critizise china for, being an aspiring ethnostate is not one of them.
@@pinotpinotpinot Speaking mandarin isn't the problem. BANNING other languages and OPPRESSING other cultures is. Which you know, of course. This is dishonesty.
I've some historians refer to China as being the *first* nation state, or something approaching that term. China has literally for thousands of years been roughly the same country with multiple iterations--that's what the Han part of Han Chinese comes from, the second dynasty to "unify" the Chinese (it is a somewhat convoluted story, basically the first dynasty lasted twenty years and it took the second to reassemble things long enough to stick).
Whenever tankies or fascists do that fake laugh where “OMg I cAn’T beLiEve YoU…blah blah blah” it comes off as such immaturity that it doesn’t surprise me they’re red fash
"BROOO YOUR TRYING TO TALK ABOUT RACISM WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HAROLD ALDEN? " addendum: Harold Alden is a distant relative of Alden the scientist who solved racism.
clicking on a video titled cop r*pe only to hear two people talk about something seemingly unrelated can only mean this conversation will escalate dramatically, and I am here for it
Today I found out that as a third generation japanese-american who has lived in this country my entire life, I am not, in fact, american PURELY BECAUSE OF MY ETHNICITY. Ah yes the classic "leftist" talking point...
I had a half Vietnamese German friend who absolutely thought of himself as German, his friends thought of him as German and he viewed Turkish people in Germany as German. Not everyone in Europe is obsessed with race. This dude is projecting.
100%. And the claim they made that a person who doesn't accept someone of a different ethnicity as a real german _isn't racist_ is batshit and just runs defence for racists.
It's just plain weird to me when he repeated how evil Europeans are. Many of us actually know and admit how f*cked up our history are that's why obsession of race and ethnicity (like the way he thinks) is frowned upon.
You can be German without being a German national or ethnicity or a citizen. These are differnrnt concepts. But a nation is a group of people with a common social, cultural, historical, political and ethnic background and language.
Vaush: "I'm Polish." Guy who totally isn't a nationalist: "Oh god, that's even worse! Shouldn't you be glad that Russia is invading Ukraine, you might get blah blah blah back!" How has this guy's brain managed to rot away so much?! My god!
As a Pole, it's super wild to se some internet rando parroting talking points of our most unhinged far-right ultra-nationalistic dumbfucks (and Russian propaganda) and believe he's the reasonable one in the convo.
@@the5002ndpanda But you'd be missing his "point" there. He'd say something about South Africa being a colonial construct, and he'd not even be completely wrong about that. You can't possibly argue that with Switzerland though - and as a bonus, the country reconstituted itself pretty much in line and at the same time as when those evil "nation states" came into fashion in Europe.
This guy reminds me of every smug college student that calls himself the "communist youth" and goes to random comitees to say shit like "working class", "imperialism" and "dialectical materialism" like they were magic spells
they're literally using 100% of their EU4 knowledge in this debate, "so vaush, tell me? is Revolutionary Commonwealth polish or Lithuanian? huh? no answer?"
Most offensive thing to me about this person is the nonchalant way they paint refugees as vengeful potential murderers instead of people who are, overwhelmingly, just relieved to be out of harm’s way for them and their families. It’s typical of someone who doesn’t give any thought to human beings and just their group characteristics
That is, in fact, literally just a far-right talking point. I have to wonder if this guy grew up in some deep red town, because he has internalized every single goddamn neonazi talking point.
The fact that he says most black people in NY are 1st gen Carib's tells me he never stepped foot in a non-gentrified neighborhood. Real man-of-the-people here.
Actually I think his ideas are coherent. Stupid ideas but internally consistent/coherent. edit: just finished the video. No, he's just insane and parroting some kind of tankie propaganda. China and the united states are both multi eithnic. And if the united states is discriminatory china sure as hell is. and yet somehow united states is a "nation state(bad)" but china is not.
His ideas were incoherent, on top of it he stammers and looses track of his own thoughts a lot, making it way harder to follow what he wants. He also has a very interesting way of stating what other people think, all while having absolutely no knowledge of those things. From how he speaks it’s pretty clear he has never been to Germany, never spoken to a german or any idea of germany at all. Fuck that guy.
oh my god when he started talking about the china repuplic stuff i just wanted to scream that north korea claims to be a democracy you cant judge a place by what they say they are
I said debating tankies is a waste of time because they're politically irrelevant, and I still feel this way, but I'd be lying if I said it isn't entertaining!
Honestly I feel the same way about this as I do whenever Sam Seder debates Libertarians. Nothing much is accomplished, but goddamn if it ain't entertaining.
I wish vaush also brought up that the han Chinese are the dominant ethnic group, just like white people in America which would have destroyed his "china isn't a nation-state" argument.
Well his mother and father had all possible ethnicities because they knew their son would have to use idpol tokenism to defend himself from being bullied.
I grew up without a father I'm not saying I'm perfect. But I'm sick of hearing people put blame on single moms dads aren't the only father figures in your life.
@@acdeeiprrt yeah, I’ve been very confused, their name is Brandy(Brandi?), and had a feminine voice(although that might just be my trans brain coping), they never corrected Vaush, even this morning when they showed up in chat again, so I don’t know
It's so funny watching Vaush hold their hand walk then through every step for like an hour and then like a Dementia patient, they immediately revert to their original position as if they hadn't just contradicted themselves.
This guy wants to go back to a time where people got stoned in the street if they committed a crime, and nobody batted an eye. The bit about the lady cop is just barbaric and completely heinous.
It was like listening to a high schooler whose never been challenged on their beliefs argue. Constantly interrupts, pulls their beliefs from video games, attempts gotcha's that don't matter, and doubles down when told how insane they sound
@@TheWaverunners i wouldn't be surprised if this was the same guy on twitter that argued that it's okay to call black cops the n-word because anything goes. Certainly the same type of tankie idiot
Fuck I'm not a fan of cops either but hearing a dude say he's ok with rape of a female cop is fucking terrifying. These people claim to be on the same side as me 😨
People used to give me shit for saying "kill all men" terfs and anti-white nationalists shouldn't have been allowed to identify as progressive. This is where we are ten years later...
Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me if those people eventually turned on us, like the gender critical folk are doing on women of color, or women who don’t follow the feminine standard.
I’ve seen these kind of people before. One example I remember was an article about the red army doing nothing about rapes of civilians. It described two rapes, one of them being of a twelve year old girl. The top comment said that it was Soldiers taking German women and girls to avenge the civilians killed by the Wehrmacht, hence that makes it justified.
"Are you seriously comparing a woman being raped to Russia invading Ukraine?" "You're right, Russia rapes MANY people, we're just talking about one lady"
@@ineedapharmists he had to add context to his question because it sounded a lot like back when cons were post justifying rittenhouse lmfao. he phrased it in a way that suggested the refugee could have killed a veteran without even knowing they were a veteran and it would be justified by the things unknown to the refugee. When he posed it a second time, he added in something that would indicate to the refugee they knew the person specifically was an iraqi veteran
I can't watch this. I'm so stuck on the intro. I'm no fan of cops. But to ever *ever* say you have no empathy for a r*pe victim... I just can't stop replaying the intro.
“You can be any race and still be American” “Nooo that’s not how it works cause that literally just shows the dialectic between the nation and the state” what the fuck does that mean
It’s because he couldn’t. He laughed about it because it’s all he can do. That doesn’t make him smart. If the guy is wrong, prove it, or admit you can’t, it’s fine to not know EVERYTHING. His appeal to absurdism is in, and of itself absurd. Words have meaning despite words changing. He refuses to engage in any topic that he’s not aware of but, he still participates in them - that’s the issue.
@@inxiti Dude.. if you think Vaush didn't prove this guy wrong, you must have not payed any attention. If you think he only laughed about it and didn't take it seriously, then you missed half the conversation where Vaush clarified definitions, made points, and illustrated why this debaters definitions made absolutely no sense, with counter examples and definitions actually broadly used and accepted.. Yeah, he laughed and didn't take the guy seriously half the time, but he also fully engaged and illustrated his points perfectly. saying he couldn't engage and prove him wrong is ridiculous. He was doing that between all the laughing and memeing 🤣
“You can’t have more than 1 nationality” but if you have citizenship in two nations then you literally have the legal classification of being a National of both nations. You have two nationalities
Dual citizenship is entirely a legal construct though. It doesn't have to make sense outside of purely legal questions. This seems like the definitional equivalent of equating legality and morality. I'm not agreeing with the person in the video, just questioning this particular point.
@@Sojo214 That's what I was thinking while watching this- it's what made me believe he was a troll for a bit. I was like, didn't he just point out his dual nationality in the beginning, and then demanded Vaush identify where his mother came from lol? I have to wonder how young this kid is, as it sounds like this is the first summer they don't have to think about going back to school from lol
21:57 MY GOD THIS GUY IS LITERALLY LIVING IN A EU4 WORLD "Shouldn't you (as a Polish person) be happy that Russia is invading Ukraine, you might get Eastern Galicia back" Dear god, tankies are literally roleplaying in real life, moving imaginary armies in the mental map and thinking in terms of historical conquests. I can't get over it, he is immersed in the Paradox games so much that the weird-strategic-view of everything seeps out on his sweaty forehead. I will omit the fact that Poland is helping Ukraine in any measure possible to fight against Russian invasion and that Polish-Ukrainian friendship is currently very strong.
This dude doesn’t seem to understand that political and economic influence are more important now that owning more land, since here in the real world Poland can’t just use diplo power and hit convert culture.
Must be a singleplayer pleb A multiplayer enjoyer would never let a hegemon go unchecked and would try to diplo in order to get a coalition going ...or become hegemon's lapdog, but that's for boring people
@@rainbowkrampus I'm of the strong opinion that the authoritarian mentality, which should be considered an actual disorder, is generally the product of generational or systemic abuse on a large scale. If not parents, then peer groups, teachers, broader societal groups can be responsible for beating critical thinking out of an individual and replacing it with blind internalization of ingroup identity-essentialism. In short, this is what happens when children get kicked in the head constantly growing up. Look at that Dobson guy who founded Focus on the Fascism- err, Family. He grew up a complete authoritarian and one of the loudest, most toxic advocates for child beating in America today, because he was beaten into submission as a child and internalized it as "deserved" and "good" for him to have been abuse.
I'm sorry, but his thoughts about nationality are so fucking stupid. I'm Mexican, I will always be Mexican. I'm from an indigenous background, I am a Mexican mestiza. Telling me that I can only be one thing or the other, and that it is actually very wrong to call myself a certain nationality actually kinda undermines me. I decide what I ascribe myself to, and being Mexican is a very big part of my life, and I like it! Doesn't mean I'm a fervent nationalist ready to fight for my country
Yeah, it's so weird and pretty flippin racist. Like, I'm Canadian, if anyone told me David Suzuki isn't Canadian just because he's actually Japanese I'd call that person racist. Ethnostater maybe would be a better term. I don't know if I'd call someone Canadian just because they've lived in Canada for a few hours or a few days. But it wouldn't take me that long before I do consider them a part of my culture and nation.
I don't think that was his point. He was arguing that nationality is a question of social construction and identity and not just legal citizenship (which Vaush seems to imply). So if your parents are Mexican and you live in the US as a US-citizen you might still consider yourself to be a part of the mexican nation (as is fairly common among mexican americans). If you migrate to a country where nationality is strictly tied to ethnicity such as Japan it wouldn't make sense to most people in that cultural context to consider yourself japanese. That's a descriptive claim, not a normative one.
A nation is a ethno-linguistic concept. A group of people with a common political, historical, cultural, ethnic background and history. A nation state is a concept, where the state is largely composed of a single nation. It a concept that can largely be followed back to the French revolution. Germany and Japan are nation states. Mexico and the US are not nation states. The only people that could be considered part of the Mexican nation would be indigenous groups.
I really really really really really really really hate this. I'm honestly terrified of getting into my local DSA chapter because I don't want to run into somebody like the guy vaush interviewed.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 The chatter is probably a vaushite who is playing a character to get Vaush more interested in doing debates with randos, as the joke I am making implies. Its up to the imagination.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 I'm pretty sure they're saying that the guy was a psyop planted by vaush or a fan or smth to make you want vaush to debate more randos. A common joke.
I disagree with the "tankie" on many of their points (specifically the China-stuff and cop r*ping part) but their frustration clearly comes from Vaush not understanding any of the concepts they were debating. Vaush was completely wrong about the whole nation vs. state argument. They tried to explain to Vaush why the Westphalian system is important to understand but Vaush was just memeing around and tried to spin everything he didn't understand into "if your argument is more complex than racism = bad, you're a racist."
@@SaudiHaramco What's the utility in understanding all that stuff? If you know how racism (taught fear response) fundamentally functions you don't need to be a professor of their fantasy races. What's the difference between repeating racist social beliefs point for point VS being a racist? None. As far as I concern they're just as disgusting as a nazi: 1) justifying r*pe and extreme violence without facing aggression first hand, 2) think a person can't hold multiple nationalities and employ heavy essentialism on ethnicity, 3) inability to shut the f up and listen for a minute and answer precisely without gish galloping and 4) all that anti sovereignty of Ukraine and Taiwan horseshit.
For a guy who prides himself in being knowledgeable in history and blaming Europe for inventing nationalism, I guess he's never heard of the time where Japan isolated itself from all other countries (except the Dutch for trade) for 200 years for nationalist reasons.
I study global politics and this debate made me want to go joker mode If I put one of my profs in the same room with this chatter, the room would collapse into a cosmic singularity
As a fellow history degree haver, I actually do believe them in that claim. However having a degree and being able to apply that degree in a reasonable way are to different things
@@RevolutionaryLoser not what I'm saying, tho also true. I mean more like, history is a process of taking evidence and building a narrative and argument. And clearly they have all the sources and and evidence, its just their argument and logic doesn't follow, and I question their ability to.
I have a history degree (modern Europe). This person is clearly smart and able to memorize facts, geography, etc. But one can be smart and have bad and/or racist takes.
So I do love that basically the entire first half of this debate was basically “I’m not a racist, but we should use all of the racists definitions. If they say black people aren’t American than sorry any black person who says they’re American, the racists are right. You have no nation
Giving the steel man, the dude is correct up to a point concerning the concept of the nation-state. I think his overall analysis fails but I'm curious to listen to him and see where he goes.
No. Slaves were not treated as "indentured servants". I hear that bullshit from apologists all the time and it's just as much bullshit in this context as it is when Christian Apologists try to use it to defend the bible.
History is kind of crazy crazy at times though. Anthony Johnson was a black man in Virginia in the 1600s that achieved wealth and actually owned several white endentured servants for a time. Then everything shifted.
Historically, I’m pretty sure the institution of New World slavery started when the colonial powers enslaved the indigenous people of the Caribbean and literally genocided them all by working them to death, then started importing African slaves to work to death as a replacement.
Look I'm not going out on this limb endorsing completely anything this lunatic said but it's actually true that as the divide between the Northern and Southern states widened as slaveholders gained political power based on an agricultural economy that relied on slave labor and the number of slaves increased greatly, that their treatment under law as well as the idea of what a slave was and what level of dehumanization that meant grew between the Revolutionary War and the Civil War Source: wrote a long paper in college on the Abolitionist Movement Also while there were MANY apologists for slavery att who used the Bible in their propaganda, the biggest Abolitionist leaders, Black & White, were Christians as well and based THEIR arguments on religious principles too
Not to mention both acts involve the violation of the autonomy of a separate entity against their will, often in a physical and extremely traumatic way. The comparison is kind of a no-brainer.
I have never before understood what people mean when they say that watching a video has harmed their mental health. I actually couldn't bring myself to listen to this person after the cop/veteran thing and the fact that this person actually exists has bothered me for hours. I don't know how Vaush lasted as long as he did. This guy is actually scary. I have had long irl conversations with actual convicts of sex crimes and felt safer then than I would if I encountered this guy in the wild.
Vaush knew he shouldn't be trated seriously from the beggining, he was only teasing him, he expected him to make a fool of himself but I guess he didn't expected THAT, anyway, I legit got a minor headache after he said that about the cop, I was paralysed for a momment of how blatant he was
Authoritarian mindset is a real and very serious form of brain damage. The worst part is that this is what the far-right wants. They want their nightmarish worldview to be so ubiquitous, through their generations of deliberate abuse, that no matter what political leanings someone has they'll always be filtered through the lenses of essentialism and tribalism. They want to create the scenario in which people who have been imprisoned and tortured for too long lose any desire to leave of their own volition.
I hate that. Not everyone in the military is infantry. They have admins, truck drivers, construction teams. Some people in the military only pick up a gun in training.
Constructivist lense here: It is important to understand how different groups identify and categorize themselves and how others categorize them. That said we can't do what the caller is doing and act like the most reactionary categorizations are the most valid
"You think of a person as part of a group - an essentially good or bad thing..." "Yes. It's liberal to consider people as individuals." HOLY FUCK dude, what a delusional misunderstanding of progressive principals. Yes, membership in a group can indicate certain beliefs or principals, but individuals still operate as individuals. according to this kid, it's liberal behaviour to look at two cops (one of whom is a violent asshole who pulls over every other black person they see, and another who has genuinely only ever acted to better their community and make it genuinely safer), and see differences. As Vaush said, this kid literally like half a step away from sending people to death camps, his toes are dangling over the precipice and there's a strong gust of wind at his back, making his footing unstable.
I think that's a bad example, because they are different...but acab. What the second guy Wanted to do is limited in it's capacity by his organisation, so what he actually did end up doing is functionally the same as the first guy.
That's a *fascist talking point.* The idea that people are their essential group identity and not individuals is literally a foundational trait of fascism. Man, I knew this guy was authoritarian brained but I didn't know he had that specific flavor of Literally Just Nazism.
@Zachery Eckard Who said it did? I just said your idea of demonstrating the difference between two people didn't have the best example. I don't even disagree with your point. It's like someone complaining about paying rent, and you say how good your landlord treats you. If you are renting you are building equity in the investment for your landlord, while you are not getting any return. No matter how good or bad your landlord might be, renting is a negative for you from a financial standpoint simply due to the circumstances. Does that make sense?
@Felis Impurrator Yeah that is true in the broadest sense, but essentialization isn't only a Nazi idea. Basically all religious people think that, and Marxists think that about economic class. The specifics of Fascism is that the individual identify should be sublimated to the Nation. At the same time it venerated the "heroic" individual, which is why Fascists all worship cults of personality. That's just a classic example of how Fascism is contradictory.
@@orderofdusk2382 trust me, first year poli sci students are far more insufferable than people who've read no theory at all -someone who was once a first year poli sci student
@@someguyoutthere110 So basically being a poli sci student starts with having no knowledge of politics, then progresses to suffering brain damage, then progresses to the brain damage healing itself and the poli sci student in question having the slightest fuck of an idea what they're talking about. (Side note: it seems YT yeeted your comment because I don't see it on my end.)
This video gave me a migraine but I couldn't stop listening... it was like watching a 20 car pileup on a highway in slow motion, my jaw physically dropped twice lmao
It was like watching a 20 car pile up, only for the drivers to then approach you and explain that this was the correct way to drive and that they were doing a public service.
I remember meeting some dude on discord who was a Canadian who said he had half Ukrainian ancestry and he just openly said he wanted to commit hate crimes against Russian immigrants and people of Russian ancestry in Canada but then arguing that it wouldn't be a hate crime lmao. Like full on advocating for burning down Orthodox churches in Russian neighborhoods because they're Russians and then saying that wouldn't be a hate crime somehow lol
@@artirony410 It really is shocking how quickly people drop any semblance of logical moral reasoning when it's _their_ _tribe_ that is under attack. I was tutoring a middle school-aged kid from China once. North Korea had recently launched missile tests toward Japan, and news of this event came up in conversation. He was generally a good kid, so I was surprised when he claimed it would have been best if the missiles had struck Japan and killed Japanese people. After retrieving my jaw from the floor, I patiently asked him if he thought seven-year-old Japanese girls deserved to die for what their great grandfathers did in WWII. He thought for several moments and then concluded that perhaps missile strikes against Japanese towns and cities might not be for the best after all.
As a European, I feel somehow insulted by this guys generalizations. I know almost nobody here who hates immigrants. Yes we have racists over here too but they are just like in the USA around 30% of the population. I am also very sure that there are xenophobes in every single country in the world regardless of their state system (in many places even in larger numbers than in Europe or the USA). Xenophobia has existed even before the creation of nation-states (probably throughout all of human history). There are even indigenous tribes today that will kill every stranger that enters their territory (and I guess it was like that even in prehistoric times)....
Yeah xenophobia is a evolutionary result - before our (globally speaking) ability to travel efficiently, strangers coming to “your” land was almost always a bad thing.
The fucker implied that Polish people should be happy with Russia invaiding Ukraine, clearly he has no fucking clue about anything. We have overwhelming support for Ukraine over here.
@@AABB-zb6dv I'm from Finland and parents working class. I am disabled myself but most of my friends through my life and family are regular people with either low or medium income. Almost all people in my circle are white people with finnish hereditary. I also know many people from around Scandinavia and Britain and few here and there around other Europe. All these people are working class. I know zero racists and I have met only few in my life. It's not like it's impossible to live a life in low/medium income circles and not know racists. Even none of my parent's friends are racist.
The way he communicates by asking Vaush these leading questions where he is looking for a particular answer is absolutely infuriating. I cannot believe there are still people in the age of the internet that are this pretentious.
Everyone, even Vaush, leads questions, leading questions is important for everything, especially debates. You’re talking about begging the question, the logical fallacy where this guy would ask extremely loaded questions that he already knew what he wanted the answer to be.
Especially when the answers actually do exist like "heh, where's the state of the Navajo" as some sort of gotcha when the Navajo Nation actually exists and has (admittedly limited) self-governance
Leading questions are an invaluable tool for rhetoric and debate. His problem is that he’s bad at it. He’s fishing for an answer but doesn’t realize there are answers that aren’t as dumb as he is
Somebody simultaneously using the strictest definition of "nation state" - meaning a uni-ethnic state and also labelling the USA a nation state under that definition is so ludicrous.
“We need to purge nationalism like the disease it is by staunchly defending ethnic groups as national identities and creating an in group out group dichotomy of who belongs within a nation based upon ancestry”
This felt like watching a dog chase it's own tail for an hour. Its always the overconfident chatters that sound completely off the rails and out of touch with reality.
Just think it should be pointed out that saying there are no people who consider themselves British and non-white is exactly what Sargon said during his debate with Vaush and is still a whole new level of stupid.
The tankie claiming that American English doesn’t have a lot of regional differences has never spoken to someone from Georgia, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, etc. We don’t all talk like the people in movies!
American English may be less varied than the UK, (because they have had about a millennia to develop distinct regional accents), but the US has a lot of variation, and is actually becoming more varied over time, despite the increase in nationwide media broadcasting. A lot of people assume that American accents are becoming more homogenous nowadays, but the opposite is true. (sorry for the infodump I just so happened to read a lot about US accents today)
I'd bet many of them would say Georgia is a different country and rant for 20 minutes about how Americans don't know geography while you try to explain that you were referring to the US state
"You need to understand how this stuff works." No. Because it doesn't. It's like saying that to be a doctor today you gotta know about the theory of humors and bloodlettings.
Bro this is like saying Fascism and the concept of Genocide “originated” from Nazi Germany. Sure, do major nations popularize certain ideologies and political movements by a certain modern name? Yes, but do these concepts in practice originate from these places? Of course not.
With the term fascism one has to be careful. It is a term that describes a Ideology of the 20th century. I hate it when people claim that Napoleon or the roman empire are fascist. Or the shitty alternate history channel who does this:" what would be if (insert political entity which couldn't be fascist because basic concepts aren't invented) was fascist" all the time. Monsieur Z i believe was the name.
genocide and a lot of different things the Nazis carried out were consistently done by the same Western Powers fighting the Nazis for centuries that also includes the world wars
Fascism originated from Italy, and Genocide from Armenia (although the term wasn't coined until 1944), both preceding Nazi Germany. But I get your point, and I don't see anything wrong with applying these terms retroactively.
"You don't know the history of the word nation state! You don't even know about the treaty of Westfalia!" The guy was probably right about that. He just failed to recognize that it had no bearing on his actual contentions with Vaush's current positions. It's like he had come in saying, "you don't even know how to make proper Carbonara! How can you support Ukraine???"
A little learning is a dangerous thing indeed. He was saying many things that are technically correct about when modern concepts of X term first arise...but the intricate debates of Enlightenment era philosophers have next to nothing to do with Vaush's proposed policies.
"China's constitution says they're multi-ethnic" "So does America's" "We aren't referring to the constitution" "ok, i agree." *point goes way over this guys head*
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.82[1/2] แก๊ง 3 สาวเพื่อนซี้บุก CAMPปลิ้นครั้งนี้ห้ามเสียอาการ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_6WUjXHe1TM/mqdefault.jpg)
This guy saw the "My enemies are ontologically evil and all bad acts against them are justified" meme and took it 100% seriously
Proving once again why we have to be careful with our memes. We see this on the far-right, we saw this with the mayocide memes…
that's the problem with the meme though, a lot of people do genuinely believe that. "pronouns in bio", "Ukraine flag in bio", "I'm not going to explain this to a fucking liberal" are all variants of the idea that you can write a person off entirely for just one bad take or being associated with one bad person.
"bad is bad, good is good, my god is the one true god" and the rest naturally follows
what did you expect?
radicalization is not just a right-wing thing.
a lot of brain rot in these replies
You can't be anti sexual violance but then be okay with it being used as a punishment.
That's how a lot of people seem to think. Nothing's off limits if it happens to a bad person.
@@Anthropomorphic That's really gross though.
Sexual violence is never permisable. Not just because its cruel but the person doing the raping is being handed a victim. Great way to guarentee abusers a legal avenue to hurt people.
It's gross and if you are for it then it says A LOT about you.
@@rayrayisgod CNC though?
Horseshoe theory folks.
The caller has the nerve to claim that he is anti-nationalist but at the same time basing his entire worldview on nationalities and ethnicities. What a joke.
not understanding the diff between descriptive and normative language is the death of this kind of 'leftism', vaush's the one playing cheap tricks here, you might be an anti-nationalist while acknowledging that nationalism is a powerful force in any kind of war situation, caller's question to v, if he would defend the u.s. against china, aims at the superficiality of ideological self-attributions when posed without any context
@@kintarooe8622 unfathomably bad take
The guy’s worldview is so warped by nationalist exposure that he ended up making their same arguments. Sounded like the guy needed to touch some grass and take a break from browsing far-right forums..
I love that he refuses to accept that one definition used centuries ago isn’t the colloquial definition
Listening to him go on about how the conversation wasn’t circular was like listening to a guy in a pyramid scheme go on about how it isn’t a pyramid scheme.
I have never seen Vaush’s face so shocked before, this is truly one of the moments of all time
More or less horrified than the Mr Girl debate where Mr Girl was getting waaaaaaaay too into the idea of hypothetical child brothels
Well guys, it happened. "One of the (blank)s of all time" is now an unironic phrase. I am going insane.
He damn near Morbed right then and there.
@@manjackson2772 honestly I feel like this was more shocking, cus you know what you're getting yourself into when talking to mr girl. The lady cop rape shit came waaaaay out of left field
so true marjorie
"I'm not white, I'm polish" "Oh God, that's even worse"
as an actual pole, god i almost died of laughter
I don't even understand if they were making a joke or what the hell that was supposed to mean.
@@grmpf me neither, I just think it was a funny exchange
I remember when "dumb pole" jokes were a thing.
@@grmpf same
Everywhere outside of the US race is much more complicated than "black vs white". Polish people have been discriminated against to the extreme in European history, many of them being slaughtered and oppressed with lasting effects today. Europeans do not see eachother as all the same thing.
This chatter is the kind of guy capable of memorizing and accurately reciting historical facts, but also completely incapable of responsibly analyzing that information.
Jesus, you just PERFECTLY described this guy and a lot of people Vaush has debated.
POV you went to university in an outdated degree that only requires memorization and no analysis to pass
Just like Whatifalthist
@@Sudupe16 for whatifashit the postmodernity is still ongoing and responsible for the attitude of the youth. The finely crafted boogieman that's around since the 60s.
Most of the things he brought up are standard Poli Sci 101 topics. Westphalian Sovereignty, Alsace-Lorraine, South Ossetia and other breakaway states.
It actually makes it more embarrassing that he's clearly taken some undergrad political science, but he still doesn't understand how a nation-state is defined. Many multinational states exist that we still refer to as nation-states, the UK being the classic example.
"Im not saying racist people believe this, this is what normal people believe" might be the biggest self-report ive ever heard
@@nyahs6197 Well that really depends on what's your definition of normal and where u live. If you're American and you see non white person and think "ah that must be a foreigner" that'd be kinda weird and probably not how most Americans think but if you like in some more ethnically homogeneous country in Europe or like Japan and you see a black person absolute most majority of people there will think that must be a foreigner. You can define it as racist, xenophobic or whatever but you can't deny that in that country it's usual to think that way it's _the norm_ aka normal there. That part of the convo flustered me because Vaush was purposefully underestimating how deep rooted and far spread is nationalistic thinking about ethnicity, especially in Europe.
@@Robiness French here. If you see a black guy and think he's a foreigner, that's still racist my dude. We are not "ethnically homogeneous" at all.
@@tartoflan never did i call france homogeneous. France is very ethnically and racially diverse country
@@Robiness keep moving that goal post
it's unfortunately true though, the guy absolutely had a point there. vaush is looking at this from a very american melting pot perspective. in germany, it is absolutely normal (normal does not equal good) to see a turkish-looking person and assign them as turkish, not as german - purely based on heritage and not place of birth or even nationality as reported in the passport.
this kind of ethnicity-based nationalism is sadly very, very real and the caller absolutely had a point there. vaush was being incredibly obtuse and ignorant about this point, going as far as to say something along the lines of "I don't think about nationalism and ethnicity as much as you, must be a YOU problem" -- this is the exact fucking thing conservatives say when they try to argue that racism doesn't exist
As a Pole, I laughed histerically for couple of minutes at the „I’m not white, I’m Polish. That’s even worse” exchange. 10/10 from now on I will only identify as „worse than white”.
That was a joke probably. Oh, God it probably wasn’t.
yea no that is funny as fuck lmao
święte słowa.
This guy took "fuck the police" way too literally
Pepelaugh good one.
that's what ACAB leads too. extremist alt left bs like that person above. just armchair activism at this point.
Impeccable comedy, comrade! Gold Star 🌟
That's an very good point MrElionor, but I can't skip over the UPA flag in the background.
Giving the benefit of doubt, do you realize the - at best - morally dubious history of the organization of Ukrainian nationalists, including anti-semitism, pogroms and participation in atrocities against civilians, e.g. the Volhynia massacre?
Defending myself against potential accusations, I am fully in support of Ukraine and hate the Russian influence in Europe at large. But I also hate local far-right and nationalistic organizations. I'm thinking Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania etc.
Cheers
@@SevenEightSE Damn, in Poland we got amazing meme about how people Ukraine and Poland would work together if russian paid shills stop screeching about Wołyń. Good thing we don't listen to them, and recieved shitload of refugees.
Bandera boyz are the mirror image, antipolish resentiments are mostly distraction from antirussian resentiments.
“I don’t think you understand racism” while continuing to spearhead racist talking points you would hear from any typical Neo-Nazi. This dude is funny.
Bro took horseshoe theory and ran with it
If A person says Nazi sh*t, they are a Nazi sh*t
namaste'
Lived experience, they understand racism because they're racist
Imagine not thinking China is a nation state when they are desperately trying to make all of their citizens conform to Han Chinese culture.
That was the worst part for me.
Speaking mandarin for example is not Han chinese culture.
Even today, after years of pushing mandarin as a lingua franca only about 70% of all people who identify as Han speak mandarin as a mother tongue.
People should really accept that they don't really know much about China. You can find a lot of things to critizise china for, being an aspiring ethnostate is not one of them.
@@pinotpinotpinot Speaking mandarin isn't the problem.
BANNING other languages and OPPRESSING other cultures is.
Which you know, of course. This is dishonesty.
I've some historians refer to China as being the *first* nation state, or something approaching that term. China has literally for thousands of years been roughly the same country with multiple iterations--that's what the Han part of Han Chinese comes from, the second dynasty to "unify" the Chinese (it is a somewhat convoluted story, basically the first dynasty lasted twenty years and it took the second to reassemble things long enough to stick).
@@pinotpinotpinot that is an insane claim.
In my opinion rape is always wrong. It's horrifying and ruins lives.
Yea, even as capital punishment it's imoral. Its a form of torture
@@wile123456 would it be wrong if it happened to Hitler?
@@JoeDirtisawsome yes
@@mikeandnike123 so its wrong to execute someone who killed millions of people and wanted world domination? ok Nick Fuentes
@@JoeDirtisawsome I wouldn't cry about it but yes it would be wrong because how would the rapist be better than Hitler?
Damn, when you're so Anti-cop you end up being pro rape? This dude is beyond help.
Seriously.
this dude is the end result of dehumanizing people as "demons in human skin"
Considering his heritage is from muslim CIS-countries, raping is probably part of his nature.
Whenever tankies or fascists do that fake laugh where “OMg I cAn’T beLiEve YoU…blah blah blah” it comes off as such immaturity that it doesn’t surprise me they’re red fash
They all think they’re the Joker. The fake laugh is the ultimate cope they do.
What exactly do you mean by "or"?
I know!
"Racism was invented on March 13th, 1673 by British ship captain, Harold Howard." - This guy
So have we finally found the CEO of racism?
"BROOO YOUR TRYING TO TALK ABOUT RACISM WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HAROLD ALDEN? "
addendum: Harold Alden is a distant relative of Alden the scientist who solved racism.
clicking on a video titled cop r*pe only to hear two people talk about something seemingly unrelated can only mean this conversation will escalate dramatically, and I am here for it
The EU4 pipeline to cop r*pe is such a niche problem
Today I found out that as a third generation japanese-american who has lived in this country my entire life, I am not, in fact, american PURELY BECAUSE OF MY ETHNICITY. Ah yes the classic "leftist" talking point...
classic lefty socialist that one!
I had a half Vietnamese German friend who absolutely thought of himself as German, his friends thought of him as German and he viewed Turkish people in Germany as German. Not everyone in Europe is obsessed with race. This dude is projecting.
100%. And the claim they made that a person who doesn't accept someone of a different ethnicity as a real german _isn't racist_ is batshit and just runs defence for racists.
It's just plain weird to me when he repeated how evil Europeans are. Many of us actually know and admit how f*cked up our history are that's why obsession of race and ethnicity (like the way he thinks) is frowned upon.
You can be German without being a German national or ethnicity or a citizen. These are differnrnt concepts. But a nation is a group of people with a common social, cultural, historical, political and ethnic background and language.
@rambunctiousvegetable correct. Forgot to mention
I think he just has very little real-life experience. It's all in his head.
Chat: "We demand more debates Vaush!!!"
Vaush: *Delivers*
“Be careful what you wish for”
Chat: not like that D:
@@drstevej2527 not all debates are formal my guy
@@drstevej2527 looking at your comments on this channel, I’m going to guess you know who vaush is now.
@@drstevej2527 sure
Vaush: "I'm Polish."
Guy who totally isn't a nationalist: "Oh god, that's even worse! Shouldn't you be glad that Russia is invading Ukraine, you might get blah blah blah back!"
How has this guy's brain managed to rot away so much?! My god!
As a Pole, it's super wild to se some internet rando parroting talking points of our most unhinged far-right ultra-nationalistic dumbfucks (and Russian propaganda) and believe he's the reasonable one in the convo.
Does the latter think its the 1900s?
@@marseldagistani1989 I have no idea. This fellow doesn't seem to do much in the way of thinking at _all,_ to be Frank instead of Kevin momentarily.
> tankie
> racist to non-russian slavs
Checks out
Wow, what a surprise. The fascist, ultra-nationalist racist holds racist beliefs.
Reading up even just on how many languages are spoken in Switzerland would probably blow this guy's mind.
switzerland? imagine how he would react to south africa and its 11 official languages
@@the5002ndpanda But you'd be missing his "point" there. He'd say something about South Africa being a colonial construct, and he'd not even be completely wrong about that. You can't possibly argue that with Switzerland though - and as a bonus, the country reconstituted itself pretty much in line and at the same time as when those evil "nation states" came into fashion in Europe.
@@the5002ndpanda Any other country for that matter like Russia, Mexico, Brazil, India, or even China.
India: *SLOWLY WALKS INTO THE BUILDING*
Singapore has entered the chat
For someone who likes to rail against nationalism he seems to be a firm believer that the ideas behind nationalism are epistemically true
Yeah as a German this was kinda uncomfortable to listen to, because "One Nation, One People" was literally a slogan of the NSDAP.
Nice, got like number 69.
But yes. It's kind of hilarious how hard this guy has internalized nationalism.
@@FelisImpurrator internalized nationalism lmao
@@Nerobyrne He wasn't defending that, he was describing what a nation state is. He wasn't saying it's a good thing.
@@nointernet5852 I mean, yeah, it's like when people unironically do the Professor Flowers black separatist thing kek
This guy reminds me of every smug college student that calls himself the "communist youth" and goes to random comitees to say shit like "working class", "imperialism" and "dialectical materialism" like they were magic spells
Spot on.
"POT OF TOAD AND HEAD OF ASS I INVOKE THE WORKING CLASS!" *shoots magic spell out of wand and sends you to the gulag*
I'm using a 5th level spell slot to cast "Socialism with Chinese characteristics"
"I cast 'Dialectical Materialism' at the darkness!"
Anarchism with GM Characteristics is superior!!!
they're literally using 100% of their EU4 knowledge in this debate, "so vaush, tell me? is Revolutionary Commonwealth polish or Lithuanian? huh? no answer?"
Dude has 0 diplo and it shows
He has 0 Intelligence and Charisma in Fallout.
Most offensive thing to me about this person is the nonchalant way they paint refugees as vengeful potential murderers instead of people who are, overwhelmingly, just relieved to be out of harm’s way for them and their families. It’s typical of someone who doesn’t give any thought to human beings and just their group characteristics
That is, in fact, literally just a far-right talking point. I have to wonder if this guy grew up in some deep red town, because he has internalized every single goddamn neonazi talking point.
@@FelisImpurrator they said Brooklyn but.. you would think if they actually group up there they would be more open minded
@@blgctyo632 sounds more like a Klansman than a New Yorker ngl
@@FelisImpurrator You ever seen upstate New York?
You can be both.
@@zacheryeckard3051 Point taken.
Tankies will die before admitting a second thing can be bad
inshallah
lmao accurate
Except we have, wtf?
@@kingstonjames7485 yeah maybe after fucking, 2 years maybe, and it’s only a mostly small portion.
@@kingstonjames7485?
The fact that he says most black people in NY are 1st gen Carib's tells me he never stepped foot in a non-gentrified neighborhood. Real man-of-the-people here.
Yo did this guy really just use “by your logic it’s wrong to go up to a stranger and shoot him because he’s a veteran” as a gotcha! 🤣
Tankies are too brain damaged to perform a Gotcha correctly. He thought Vaush supporting Ukraine made Vaush a Fascist lmao
Yep
@@8Rincewind Yep
This guy is super dangerous
@@TopOfAllWorldsnot really. To be actually dangerous he‘d have to actually leave his parents basement for once. And that‘s not gonna happen
The tankie guy is completely incoherent. I miss Vaush debating random chatters! This was great.
Actually I think his ideas are coherent. Stupid ideas but internally consistent/coherent.
edit: just finished the video. No, he's just insane and parroting some kind of tankie propaganda. China and the united states are both multi eithnic. And if the united states is discriminatory china sure as hell is. and yet somehow united states is a "nation state(bad)" but china is not.
Ehhhh no
Same. We need some blood every now and then
His ideas were incoherent, on top of it he stammers and looses track of his own thoughts a lot, making it way harder to follow what he wants.
He also has a very interesting way of stating what other people think, all while having absolutely no knowledge of those things.
From how he speaks it’s pretty clear he has never been to Germany, never spoken to a german or any idea of germany at all. Fuck that guy.
I only liked this cause it reminds me of that idiots like this ride or die with Jason Tinkle.
Him being for China because it's "officially multi-ethnic" is the same as other tankies being for North Korea because it's "officially democratic"
oh my god when he started talking about the china repuplic stuff i just wanted to scream that north korea claims to be a democracy you cant judge a place by what they say they are
As if Han Chinese haven't been the defacto power of China for ages. Super obvious even in current times with Tibet.
You can tell this person's first principle is hating America. I have no idea how they think China is multi ethnic but somehow America isn't.
This is the 2023 equivalent of people in the soviet era falling for their propaganda purporting the same
I said debating tankies is a waste of time because they're politically irrelevant, and I still feel this way, but I'd be lying if I said it isn't entertaining!
Not single tankie debate vaush has done has been productive, but my god if it isn't some of the best content on the channel
Honestly I feel the same way about this as I do whenever Sam Seder debates Libertarians. Nothing much is accomplished, but goddamn if it ain't entertaining.
I think it drives content and discussion, and there is no risk of people moving to the right, at least... I dont think so?
@@TheBioshocksnake Yeah there's no risk, because tankies are already on the right HAYOOOO!
TRUUU
"You need to calm down, because there's a cliff, eventually, that you're going to run off of."
As always, voosh was right
And boy what a cliff!
I wish Vaush would have asked him “When a Chinese person sees a Uighur, so they see a fellow Chinese person?”
I wish vaush also brought up that the han Chinese are the dominant ethnic group, just like white people in America which would have destroyed his "china isn't a nation-state" argument.
Progressive: "Boy, do I hate fascists!"
Tankie: "Yeah, me too man... I hate how right they are!"
P: "Wait, what??"
Brings back memories of "the holocaust was wrong because the Nazis lied."
Y’all ain’t Teddy Roosevelt ur just less extreme than a ML lmao stop beating around the bush and call it socialism
@@B727X What?
@@B727X Marxist Leninists aren't socialist. They're fascist garbage.
I'm a tankie, I've never said that all my fucking life. It's you libs who agree with fascists more often than not.
I’d say this guy was fatherless, but that would imply he was actually conceived by human beings and not dragged out of the landfill as a fetus
Well his mother and father had all possible ethnicities because they knew their son would have to use idpol tokenism to defend himself from being bullied.
I grew up without a father I'm not saying I'm perfect. But I'm sick of hearing people put blame on single moms dads aren't the only father figures in your life.
Isn't it a trans woman?
@@acdeeiprrt yeah, I’ve been very confused, their name is Brandy(Brandi?), and had a feminine voice(although that might just be my trans brain coping), they never corrected Vaush, even this morning when they showed up in chat again, so I don’t know
@@acdeeiprrt what does that matter? Have you not heard tankies talk sexual orientation had nothing to do with this. Stupid is as stupid does.
It's so funny watching Vaush hold their hand walk then through every step for like an hour and then like a Dementia patient, they immediately revert to their original position as if they hadn't just contradicted themselves.
This guy wants to go back to a time where people got stoned in the street if they committed a crime, and nobody batted an eye. The bit about the lady cop is just barbaric and completely heinous.
I'm just waiting for him to say "it's okay to rape female nazis".
I'm ACAB all day but fuck that's wrong
That dude is literally no different from the boomers who think SA in prison is hilarious because "they deserved it, they're criminals".
That's what happens when you to the far left and preach acab 24/7.
@@ineedapharmists
"I'm ACAB all day" 🤡
this guy was maximum cringe for an hour straight. listening to this felt like an unending fever dream.
This guy is a case study on what happens to your brain when you're addicted to EU4
It was like listening to a high schooler whose never been challenged on their beliefs argue. Constantly interrupts, pulls their beliefs from video games, attempts gotcha's that don't matter, and doubles down when told how insane they sound
I thought it was a trans woman
@@acdeeiprrt why do you keep saying this?
@@SirKemzyGodle so many people said it, I'm wondering what they heard that I didn't
You know, this guy is a living breathing example of what the phrase "there are no bad tactics, only bad targets" does to someone
So rape is okay as long you’re in a certain profession. We’re so fucked lol.
The thing about violence is that it can be done in self defense. I cant think of a situation where THAT would be done in self-defense.
@@TheWaverunners i wouldn't be surprised if this was the same guy on twitter that argued that it's okay to call black cops the n-word because anything goes. Certainly the same type of tankie idiot
@@TheWaverunners I was fearing for my life so I sexually assaulted her.
@@TheWaverunners "your honor I HAD to rape her, she came at me and I feared for my life"
@@TheWaverunners "I swear officer my d just happened to be there bc of self defense!" 🙃
Fuck I'm not a fan of cops either but hearing a dude say he's ok with rape of a female cop is fucking terrifying. These people claim to be on the same side as me 😨
People used to give me shit for saying "kill all men" terfs and anti-white nationalists shouldn't have been allowed to identify as progressive. This is where we are ten years later...
Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me if those people eventually turned on us, like the gender critical folk are doing on women of color, or women who don’t follow the feminine standard.
I’ve seen these kind of people before. One example I remember was an article about the red army doing nothing about rapes of civilians. It described two rapes, one of them being of a twelve year old girl. The top comment said that it was Soldiers taking German women and girls to avenge the civilians killed by the Wehrmacht, hence that makes it justified.
@@diegorincon4673 Jesus, these people aren't even animals. At least animals are often cute. These people are monsters.
It’s like saying “I won’t be racist to you unless you’re a jerk”. Racism is just bad, you can’t make excuses for it
What's with tankies and sounding like they're about to burst into tears constantly
it's relatively difficult to be mentally well and also become a tankie
This man was quite literally about to justify r*ping women if they are of a certain nationality
Oh Jesus Christ
turkic women mainly
Men moment 🍵
I hate being human.
@@cutecatsara123 nothing to do with men and everything to do with being sick
“I support self defense”
“No, not like that”
@@Sugarman96 AKA racially/ethnic/another lunatic ideology excuse revenge
"Are you seriously comparing a woman being raped to Russia invading Ukraine?"
"You're right, Russia rapes MANY people, we're just talking about one lady"
@@Sugarman96 He's a tankie, his version of self defense is doing anything bad to a white American
@@Sugarman96 that shit was Hilarious. Why would a refugee come to America, see a veteran and get pissed?
@@ineedapharmists he had to add context to his question because it sounded a lot like back when cons were post justifying rittenhouse lmfao. he phrased it in a way that suggested the refugee could have killed a veteran without even knowing they were a veteran and it would be justified by the things unknown to the refugee. When he posed it a second time, he added in something that would indicate to the refugee they knew the person specifically was an iraqi veteran
I can't watch this. I'm so stuck on the intro. I'm no fan of cops. But to ever *ever* say you have no empathy for a r*pe victim...
I just can't stop replaying the intro.
“You can be any race and still be American”
“Nooo that’s not how it works cause that literally just shows the dialectic between the nation and the state” what the fuck does that mean
@Christopher Grant yeah America can involve nearly anything that happens in the Western hemisphere
it means he views things through an ethnonationalist lens
This guy really doesn’t understand the difference between “ethnicity” and “nationality”
Yeah he doesn't at all
I get the feeling he doesn't care about the distinction.
This was his round about way to internally rationalize his anarchistic desires with his love of china.
@@WiiFan20XX What cognitive dissonance does to a mf
Can't if you don't want to see jews as people
This guy be like "I'm not a race-essentialist" *proceeds to essentialize every race they talk about*
God… I’m actually glad that Vaush didn’t take this conversation seriously at any point, it was so fucking off the rails insane
First few minutes he was right not counting the china isn't a nation state thing, but it just very quickly went off the rails
It was painful to watch because he wasn’t serious
@@TheR3dScare how the fuck are you supposed to take this person seriously lol
It’s because he couldn’t. He laughed about it because it’s all he can do. That doesn’t make him smart. If the guy is wrong, prove it, or admit you can’t, it’s fine to not know EVERYTHING. His appeal to absurdism is in, and of itself absurd. Words have meaning despite words changing. He refuses to engage in any topic that he’s not aware of but, he still participates in them - that’s the issue.
@@inxiti Dude.. if you think Vaush didn't prove this guy wrong, you must have not payed any attention. If you think he only laughed about it and didn't take it seriously, then you missed half the conversation where Vaush clarified definitions, made points, and illustrated why this debaters definitions made absolutely no sense, with counter examples and definitions actually broadly used and accepted..
Yeah, he laughed and didn't take the guy seriously half the time, but he also fully engaged and illustrated his points perfectly.
saying he couldn't engage and prove him wrong is ridiculous.
He was doing that between all the laughing and memeing 🤣
*Shouts neo nazi talking points for an hour and a half*
"You use a slogan to support a country being invaded. You're not a socialist."
“You can’t have more than 1 nationality” but if you have citizenship in two nations then you literally have the legal classification of being a National of both nations. You have two nationalities
Under his argument he even labeled himself as dual nationality at the start... he lost the plot completely as he went along...
@@Sojo214 as if he ever had any grasp lol
Northern Ireland has two nationalities.
Dual citizenship is entirely a legal construct though. It doesn't have to make sense outside of purely legal questions. This seems like the definitional equivalent of equating legality and morality.
I'm not agreeing with the person in the video, just questioning this particular point.
@@Sojo214 That's what I was thinking while watching this- it's what made me believe he was a troll for a bit. I was like, didn't he just point out his dual nationality in the beginning, and then demanded Vaush identify where his mother came from lol?
I have to wonder how young this kid is, as it sounds like this is the first summer they don't have to think about going back to school from lol
21:57 MY GOD THIS GUY IS LITERALLY LIVING IN A EU4 WORLD
"Shouldn't you (as a Polish person) be happy that Russia is invading Ukraine, you might get Eastern Galicia back"
Dear god, tankies are literally roleplaying in real life, moving imaginary armies in the mental map and thinking in terms of historical conquests.
I can't get over it, he is immersed in the Paradox games so much that the weird-strategic-view of everything seeps out on his sweaty forehead.
I will omit the fact that Poland is helping Ukraine in any measure possible to fight against Russian invasion and that Polish-Ukrainian friendship is currently very strong.
This dude doesn’t seem to understand that political and economic influence are more important now that owning more land, since here in the real world Poland can’t just use diplo power and hit convert culture.
@@ObiJohnKenobi67
"What happens to the Lithuanians when I hit 'convert culture'?"
"You don't want to know"
Literally Jirinovsky level of knowledge. DEFINE POLE !
Exactly, it's genuinely impressive how deep this guy's brainrot is that his entire worldview is through the lens of paradox games.
Must be a singleplayer pleb
A multiplayer enjoyer would never let a hegemon go unchecked and would try to diplo in order to get a coalition going
...or become hegemon's lapdog, but that's for boring people
This dude is the epitome of "a little learning is a dangerous thing"
It feels like people this crazy get a dartboard at 18 and randomly pick if they schizopost on the left or right for the rest of their lives.
@@rainbowkrampus Literally, slight tweaks in his social media algorithms and he'd probably have become a hardcore right-winger...
@@rainbowkrampus I'm of the strong opinion that the authoritarian mentality, which should be considered an actual disorder, is generally the product of generational or systemic abuse on a large scale. If not parents, then peer groups, teachers, broader societal groups can be responsible for beating critical thinking out of an individual and replacing it with blind internalization of ingroup identity-essentialism. In short, this is what happens when children get kicked in the head constantly growing up.
Look at that Dobson guy who founded Focus on the Fascism- err, Family. He grew up a complete authoritarian and one of the loudest, most toxic advocates for child beating in America today, because he was beaten into submission as a child and internalized it as "deserved" and "good" for him to have been abuse.
Or for the next 3 months before switching to the other side. I've seen that happen a shocking number of times.
Most well-adjusted tankie
Fr
Probably a r/GenZenDong user let’s be honest
Vloinky spaloinky really got him good
😂
To be unsympathetic to a woman who was raped because she's a police officer is grounds to dismiss you.
I'm sorry, but his thoughts about nationality are so fucking stupid. I'm Mexican, I will always be Mexican. I'm from an indigenous background, I am a Mexican mestiza. Telling me that I can only be one thing or the other, and that it is actually very wrong to call myself a certain nationality actually kinda undermines me. I decide what I ascribe myself to, and being Mexican is a very big part of my life, and I like it! Doesn't mean I'm a fervent nationalist ready to fight for my country
Don't take him that seriously he's just neo nazi who likes to pretend knows about socialism
Yeah, it's so weird and pretty flippin racist. Like, I'm Canadian, if anyone told me David Suzuki isn't Canadian just because he's actually Japanese I'd call that person racist. Ethnostater maybe would be a better term.
I don't know if I'd call someone Canadian just because they've lived in Canada for a few hours or a few days. But it wouldn't take me that long before I do consider them a part of my culture and nation.
I don't think that was his point. He was arguing that nationality is a question of social construction and identity and not just legal citizenship (which Vaush seems to imply). So if your parents are Mexican and you live in the US as a US-citizen you might still consider yourself to be a part of the mexican nation (as is fairly common among mexican americans). If you migrate to a country where nationality is strictly tied to ethnicity such as Japan it wouldn't make sense to most people in that cultural context to consider yourself japanese. That's a descriptive claim, not a normative one.
A nation is a ethno-linguistic concept. A group of people with a common political, historical, cultural, ethnic background and history. A nation state is a concept, where the state is largely composed of a single nation. It a concept that can largely be followed back to the French revolution. Germany and Japan are nation states. Mexico and the US are not nation states. The only people that could be considered part of the Mexican nation would be indigenous groups.
His point flown completely over your head. Nobody should care outside of yourself, that was the entire point regarding that discussion.
One of the most mask-off moments of all time when this person said r*ping lady cops is ok. Fuck bro...
When you accidentally drop the mask and it explodes into a thousand pieces on the floor
@@Mizar007 A mask about as strong as their talking points
Yep. This is why tankies are fascists. We don't tolerate them in my town anymore.
That's mask-off for you actually, saying it's not OK to use terrorism against the elite and their guard dogs. Says a lot.
I really really really really really really really hate this. I'm honestly terrified of getting into my local DSA chapter because I don't want to run into somebody like the guy vaush interviewed.
I mean, I feel like I have to thank this guy for reigniting Voosh's affinity for debating randos, but
Wow
Psyop moment.
@@lljkgktudjlrsmygilug wait, what? Who? What does this have to do with the comment?
@@BlueTyphoon2017 The chatter is probably a vaushite who is playing a character to get Vaush more interested in doing debates with randos, as the joke I am making implies. Its up to the imagination.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 I'm pretty sure they're saying that the guy was a psyop planted by vaush or a fan or smth to make you want vaush to debate more randos. A common joke.
This tankie sounds like he's on the verge of crying at any moment.
Jordan Peterson Follower.
Maximum bottom energy. He's only here to get off on his humiliation fetish
@@JARV9701 Hahaha this made me laugh 😆 Good job 👏 good joke 🤣
I disagree with the "tankie" on many of their points (specifically the China-stuff and cop r*ping part) but their frustration clearly comes from Vaush not understanding any of the concepts they were debating. Vaush was completely wrong about the whole nation vs. state argument. They tried to explain to Vaush why the Westphalian system is important to understand but Vaush was just memeing around and tried to spin everything he didn't understand into "if your argument is more complex than racism = bad, you're a racist."
@@SaudiHaramco What's the utility in understanding all that stuff? If you know how racism (taught fear response) fundamentally functions you don't need to be a professor of their fantasy races. What's the difference between repeating racist social beliefs point for point VS being a racist? None. As far as I concern they're just as disgusting as a nazi: 1) justifying r*pe and extreme violence without facing aggression first hand, 2) think a person can't hold multiple nationalities and employ heavy essentialism on ethnicity, 3) inability to shut the f up and listen for a minute and answer precisely without gish galloping and 4) all that anti sovereignty of Ukraine and Taiwan horseshit.
For a guy who prides himself in being knowledgeable in history and blaming Europe for inventing nationalism, I guess he's never heard of the time where Japan isolated itself from all other countries (except the Dutch for trade) for 200 years for nationalist reasons.
I study global politics and this debate made me want to go joker mode
If I put one of my profs in the same room with this chatter, the room would collapse into a cosmic singularity
r/myprofisverybadass
If this guy sincerely has a history degree, I hope he can still get a refund from his college
Unfortunately they have all the hallmarks of one, but none of the smarts
As a fellow history degree haver, I actually do believe them in that claim. However having a degree and being able to apply that degree in a reasonable way are to different things
@@alejandrorivas4585 Are you telling me history books can be wrong? Big if true.
@@RevolutionaryLoser not what I'm saying, tho also true. I mean more like, history is a process of taking evidence and building a narrative and argument. And clearly they have all the sources and and evidence, its just their argument and logic doesn't follow, and I question their ability to.
I have a history degree (modern Europe). This person is clearly smart and able to memorize facts, geography, etc. But one can be smart and have bad and/or racist takes.
I can't even get to the "you can do anything to cops" part. I'm so lost with the idiotic definition of a "nation-state"
By the end of the debate this guy had dug a hole too deep to ever climb out of and was determined to keep digging. Least fascist tankie btw
You're insane, fr
As an Indian, listening to this guy talking about Tibet as though it's a fair deal in any capacity is so fucking strange
Sometimes I feel like I’m on the internet too much but then I hear people like this guy and realize I’m doing just fine
I actually checked my dictionary and every definition was just the Peace of Westphalia over and over again.
EU4 Stream when?
Oh lord. He pulled a Sarda on you.
So I do love that basically the entire first half of this debate was basically “I’m not a racist, but we should use all of the racists definitions. If they say black people aren’t American than sorry any black person who says they’re American, the racists are right. You have no nation
Giving the steel man, the dude is correct up to a point concerning the concept of the nation-state.
I think his overall analysis fails but I'm curious to listen to him and see where he goes.
No. Slaves were not treated as "indentured servants". I hear that bullshit from apologists all the time and it's just as much bullshit in this context as it is when Christian Apologists try to use it to defend the bible.
. . . . . Slavs er yumeh
History is kind of crazy crazy at times though. Anthony Johnson was a black man in Virginia in the 1600s that achieved wealth and actually owned several white endentured servants for a time. Then everything shifted.
Historically, I’m pretty sure the institution of New World slavery started when the colonial powers enslaved the indigenous people of the Caribbean and literally genocided them all by working them to death, then started importing African slaves to work to death as a replacement.
Look I'm not going out on this limb endorsing completely anything this lunatic said but it's actually true that as the divide between the Northern and Southern states widened as slaveholders gained political power based on an agricultural economy that relied on slave labor and the number of slaves increased greatly, that their treatment under law as well as the idea of what a slave was and what level of dehumanization that meant grew between the Revolutionary War and the Civil War
Source: wrote a long paper in college on the Abolitionist Movement
Also while there were MANY apologists for slavery att who used the Bible in their propaganda, the biggest Abolitionist leaders, Black & White, were Christians as well and based THEIR arguments on religious principles too
I like how people say indentured servitude is better then slavery, like it's part time slavery so that makes it better or some shit
"Are you comparing RAPE to an invasion of a country?"
... The latter involves much of the former.
[laugh-cries in Rape of Nanking]
Not to mention both acts involve the violation of the autonomy of a separate entity against their will, often in a physical and extremely traumatic way. The comparison is kind of a no-brainer.
Wait. Europeans invented xenophobia? I think the Japanese under the Tokugawa Shogunate would like to have a word with you.
Whalp, my days of laughing at tankies are certainly come to a middle
Based Firefly reference?
@@auroraborealissings2084 I do aim to misbehave
I have never before understood what people mean when they say that watching a video has harmed their mental health. I actually couldn't bring myself to listen to this person after the cop/veteran thing and the fact that this person actually exists has bothered me for hours. I don't know how Vaush lasted as long as he did. This guy is actually scary.
I have had long irl conversations with actual convicts of sex crimes and felt safer then than I would if I encountered this guy in the wild.
Vaush knew he shouldn't be trated seriously from the beggining, he was only teasing him, he expected him to make a fool of himself but I guess he didn't expected THAT, anyway, I legit got a minor headache after he said that about the cop, I was paralysed for a momment of how blatant he was
as i girl the people i fear the most are those incel guys vaush debates.
this is a type of person i want to never find in real life
Authoritarian mindset is a real and very serious form of brain damage. The worst part is that this is what the far-right wants. They want their nightmarish worldview to be so ubiquitous, through their generations of deliberate abuse, that no matter what political leanings someone has they'll always be filtered through the lenses of essentialism and tribalism. They want to create the scenario in which people who have been imprisoned and tortured for too long lose any desire to leave of their own volition.
@@Trilo-Kh2D if I can help, most of these guys are too afraid of girls irl, or any social interaction for that matter
I hate that. Not everyone in the military is infantry. They have admins, truck drivers, construction teams. Some people in the military only pick up a gun in training.
Constructivist lense here:
It is important to understand how different groups identify and categorize themselves and how others categorize them.
That said we can't do what the caller is doing and act like the most reactionary categorizations are the most valid
"You think of a person as part of a group - an essentially good or bad thing..."
"Yes. It's liberal to consider people as individuals."
HOLY FUCK dude, what a delusional misunderstanding of progressive principals. Yes, membership in a group can indicate certain beliefs or principals, but individuals still operate as individuals. according to this kid, it's liberal behaviour to look at two cops (one of whom is a violent asshole who pulls over every other black person they see, and another who has genuinely only ever acted to better their community and make it genuinely safer), and see differences. As Vaush said, this kid literally like half a step away from sending people to death camps, his toes are dangling over the precipice and there's a strong gust of wind at his back, making his footing unstable.
I think that's a bad example, because they are different...but acab. What the second guy Wanted to do is limited in it's capacity by his organisation, so what he actually did end up doing is functionally the same as the first guy.
That's a *fascist talking point.* The idea that people are their essential group identity and not individuals is literally a foundational trait of fascism. Man, I knew this guy was authoritarian brained but I didn't know he had that specific flavor of Literally Just Nazism.
@@JebeckyGranjola ACAB doesn't justify any action against any cop.
@Zachery Eckard Who said it did? I just said your idea of demonstrating the difference between two people didn't have the best example. I don't even disagree with your point. It's like someone complaining about paying rent, and you say how good your landlord treats you. If you are renting you are building equity in the investment for your landlord, while you are not getting any return. No matter how good or bad your landlord might be, renting is a negative for you from a financial standpoint simply due to the circumstances. Does that make sense?
@Felis Impurrator Yeah that is true in the broadest sense, but essentialization isn't only a Nazi idea. Basically all religious people think that, and Marxists think that about economic class. The specifics of Fascism is that the individual identify should be sublimated to the Nation. At the same time it venerated the "heroic" individual, which is why Fascists all worship cults of personality. That's just a classic example of how Fascism is contradictory.
My man just finished the first semester of his poli sci degree and now believes he is a political genius
Saying that would imply this man has ever read theory at any point in his life.
@@orderofdusk2382 trust me, first year poli sci students are far more insufferable than people who've read no theory at all
-someone who was once a first year poli sci student
@@someguyoutthere110 So basically being a poli sci student starts with having no knowledge of politics, then progresses to suffering brain damage, then progresses to the brain damage healing itself and the poli sci student in question having the slightest fuck of an idea what they're talking about.
(Side note: it seems YT yeeted your comment because I don't see it on my end.)
Don’t do poli-sci people dirty like that lol!
As someone with a ba in history as soon as he said he was a history major i thought o no
This video gave me a migraine but I couldn't stop listening... it was like watching a 20 car pileup on a highway in slow motion, my jaw physically dropped twice lmao
It was like watching a 20 car pile up, only for the drivers to then approach you and explain that this was the correct way to drive and that they were doing a public service.
this is spot on, I just couldn’t look away
I fully endorse nicknaming this chatter “Measurehead”
"measurenation"
I don't think so, this guy is too degenerate and ham-sandwichy to be named after someone so objectively superior to him.
Ham sandweech.
@@Kropothead jollof rice
@@ericosagie3046 I just googled that, and it sounds delicious.
On behalf of all Ukrainians, we dispute his claimed Ukrainian heritage.
I remember meeting some dude on discord who was a Canadian who said he had half Ukrainian ancestry and he just openly said he wanted to commit hate crimes against Russian immigrants and people of Russian ancestry in Canada but then arguing that it wouldn't be a hate crime lmao. Like full on advocating for burning down Orthodox churches in Russian neighborhoods because they're Russians and then saying that wouldn't be a hate crime somehow lol
@@artirony410 It really is shocking how quickly people drop any semblance of logical moral reasoning when it's _their_ _tribe_ that is under attack. I was tutoring a middle school-aged kid from China once. North Korea had recently launched missile tests toward Japan, and news of this event came up in conversation. He was generally a good kid, so I was surprised when he claimed it would have been best if the missiles had struck Japan and killed Japanese people. After retrieving my jaw from the floor, I patiently asked him if he thought seven-year-old Japanese girls deserved to die for what their great grandfathers did in WWII. He thought for several moments and then concluded that perhaps missile strikes against Japanese towns and cities might not be for the best after all.
@@artirony410 that face when meeting someone with reactionary thinking induced brain damage.
You can;t just do that though. if someone's of a certain heritage they are. no disputing that.
@@orderofdusk2382 yeah this person also was a self proclaimed "libertarian leftist" lmao
I'd tell this dude to touch grass but he'd just end up trying to explain the difference between grass and weeds for an hour.
As a European, I feel somehow insulted by this guys generalizations. I know almost nobody here who hates immigrants. Yes we have racists over here too but they are just like in the USA around 30% of the population. I am also very sure that there are xenophobes in every single country in the world regardless of their state system (in many places even in larger numbers than in Europe or the USA). Xenophobia has existed even before the creation of nation-states (probably throughout all of human history). There are even indigenous tribes today that will kill every stranger that enters their territory (and I guess it was like that even in prehistoric times)....
More like 60%. Just wait till the next migratw wave
Yeah xenophobia is a evolutionary result - before our (globally speaking) ability to travel efficiently, strangers coming to “your” land was almost always a bad thing.
I guess you don't know many people from working-class background then.
The fucker implied that Polish people should be happy with Russia invaiding Ukraine, clearly he has no fucking clue about anything. We have overwhelming support for Ukraine over here.
@@AABB-zb6dv I'm from Finland and parents working class. I am disabled myself but most of my friends through my life and family are regular people with either low or medium income. Almost all people in my circle are white people with finnish hereditary. I also know many people from around Scandinavia and Britain and few here and there around other Europe. All these people are working class. I know zero racists and I have met only few in my life.
It's not like it's impossible to live a life in low/medium income circles and not know racists. Even none of my parent's friends are racist.
Vaush: "racism predates the nation-state"
This 1000 IQ gigagenius: "no it doesn't"
Romans: baby wake up, first slur dropped
"China isn't a nation-state cause they have multiple ethnic groups"
So... every country isn't a nation-state?
"NOOOO!!!"
“Where does your brain go”
36:32
Implying he has a brain to begin with
The way he communicates by asking Vaush these leading questions where he is looking for a particular answer is absolutely infuriating. I cannot believe there are still people in the age of the internet that are this pretentious.
Everyone, even Vaush, leads questions, leading questions is important for everything, especially debates. You’re talking about begging the question, the logical fallacy where this guy would ask extremely loaded questions that he already knew what he wanted the answer to be.
And it's funny as fuck when vaush gives a different answer than he was expecting and he spirals out of control
Especially when the answers actually do exist like "heh, where's the state of the Navajo" as some sort of gotcha when the Navajo Nation actually exists and has (admittedly limited) self-governance
Leading questions are an invaluable tool for rhetoric and debate. His problem is that he’s bad at it. He’s fishing for an answer but doesn’t realize there are answers that aren’t as dumb as he is
It is only within this age of the internet that I have become aware that people can be this pretentious.
Somebody simultaneously using the strictest definition of "nation state" - meaning a uni-ethnic state and also labelling the USA a nation state under that definition is so ludicrous.
According to this guy I'm not American because of my skin color. Thank you anti racism hero.
“We need to purge nationalism like the disease it is by staunchly defending ethnic groups as national identities and creating an in group out group dichotomy of who belongs within a nation based upon ancestry”
This felt like watching a dog chase it's own tail for an hour. Its always the overconfident chatters that sound completely off the rails and out of touch with reality.
Just think it should be pointed out that saying there are no people who consider themselves British and non-white is exactly what Sargon said during his debate with Vaush and is still a whole new level of stupid.
It's Nazi talking points and pretext for sending people out to Rwandan concentration camps
I met a brown guy and he had an English accent. Eventually I did ask where he was from and he said he was British.
@@TheSurrealist. clearly he was lying - he was obviously from Africa and was just faking the accent. clearly
Hey nice Heroes-related profile pic and, I assume, name as well!
The tankie claiming that American English doesn’t have a lot of regional differences has never spoken to someone from Georgia, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, etc. We don’t all talk like the people in movies!
American English may be less varied than the UK, (because they have had about a millennia to develop distinct regional accents), but the US has a lot of variation, and is actually becoming more varied over time, despite the increase in nationwide media broadcasting. A lot of people assume that American accents are becoming more homogenous nowadays, but the opposite is true. (sorry for the infodump I just so happened to read a lot about US accents today)
I'd bet many of them would say Georgia is a different country and rant for 20 minutes about how Americans don't know geography while you try to explain that you were referring to the US state
I can't really blame my international friends but a lot of them DO think the U.S.= California
@@embarrassedcap or New York
@@JSmusiqalthinka If they were true geography enjoyers they'd call it Sakartvelo.
As a fellow half breed Armenian i want to apologize, we dont claim this dude.
Same and agreed
"Where does your brain go...?" Brain? That is very generous, Vaush.
I came into this stream just before this guy got on... boy, I was not expecting the amount of... this guy we were gonna get.
"You need to understand how this stuff works."
No. Because it doesn't.
It's like saying that to be a doctor today you gotta know about the theory of humors and bloodlettings.
Bro this is like saying Fascism and the concept of Genocide “originated” from Nazi Germany. Sure, do major nations popularize certain ideologies and political movements by a certain modern name? Yes, but do these concepts in practice originate from these places? Of course not.
With the term fascism one has to be careful. It is a term that describes a Ideology of the 20th century. I hate it when people claim that Napoleon or the roman empire are fascist.
Or the shitty alternate history channel who does this:" what would be if (insert political entity which couldn't be fascist because basic concepts aren't invented) was fascist" all the time. Monsieur Z i believe was the name.
genocide and a lot of different things the Nazis carried out were consistently done by the same Western Powers fighting the Nazis for centuries that also includes the world wars
Well ofc cause Fascism originates with Mussolini's Fascist Italy
Fascism originated from Italy, and Genocide from Armenia (although the term wasn't coined until 1944), both preceding Nazi Germany. But I get your point, and I don't see anything wrong with applying these terms retroactively.
Genetic fallacy. Standard authoritarian brainrot. You can see Charlie Kirk making the same arguments about transness in his debate with Voosh.
"You don't know the history of the word nation state! You don't even know about the treaty of Westfalia!"
The guy was probably right about that. He just failed to recognize that it had no bearing on his actual contentions with Vaush's current positions.
It's like he had come in saying, "you don't even know how to make proper Carbonara! How can you support Ukraine???"
A little learning is a dangerous thing indeed. He was saying many things that are technically correct about when modern concepts of X term first arise...but the intricate debates of Enlightenment era philosophers have next to nothing to do with Vaush's proposed policies.
"China's constitution says they're multi-ethnic"
"So does America's"
"We aren't referring to the constitution"
"ok, i agree."
*point goes way over this guys head*