The fact Celtics fans are still crying over the arguably correct call over minor contact on Jaylen's head instead of *_the call on Porzingis the refs admitted was wrong_* tells me everything I need to know about how hard y'all fall for your celebrity media narratives. I've even seen people saying Hield 'admitted' to fouling in a post game where he literally flat out does not do that
honestly, I'm shocked they didn't title it Mavs vs Cavs then talked about the Lakers, Warriors and Boston for an hour like with the 'hottest teams' video the big market hogriding is crazy
@@ricocharges1172 I do and I'm not a Cavs fan, especially after _the Strus incident..._ I just like good basketball and the Ws and Lakers are not in the same stratosphere in terms of playing it
The '04 Pistons are one of my favorite teams ever. That was a serious group. I honestly feel that the NBA peaked between 2001-06. The skill and shooting ability in the game today are wonderful, though. I only ask that we make it somewhat difficult again for the ball to go in the bucket. The skill and shooting won't go away if we revert the rules. It will still be there, it will just be somewhat toned down in its effectiveness when defense is allowed to be properly played again. It would be a wonderful mix, like kettle corn.
Upside, tho. League invests in young stars now. Used to have vets to teach the youngins how to move off the court, but not so much anymore. Gafford is only 25 but his ceiling feels more known than Lively's, even if he is better currently. They'll probably go back and forth on minutes.
I think lively does more things better. Gafford is better against big strong guys right now but lively is better overall. They should be splitting time idc who starts
Had had a terrible game and was getting played off the court. Him getting 7 minutes that game is fine. And he is not better than Lively in a lot of areas that are more important for the Mavs success (ex. Shortroll and perimeter defense)
I really think just balancing the calls-contact initiation and obstruction-between the Offense and the Defense would do a world of good. That being said, why not change Def-3-Sec to Def-5-sec? It would marginally increase the ability of the defense to DEFEND their position. Fewer rotations necessary, thus less getting caught on switches and out of position.
The Cavs are so dangerous because every game somebody else steps up, they can pretty much always count on Mitchell as well. I been following Max since the 1st game with the Bulls, his shot remainded me to the 2021 summer legue. Miss him in Miami, thanks to Lowry's contract couldn't keep him. Glad he is doing so well, pretty much our only sucess story out of Miami, but I knew he would, because he is that kinda guy. Now we console ourselves with Robinson, but I hope he is gone next year. Go Heat, go Cavs !.
57:57 Offensive players can have their elbows extended to 90 degrees so long as they do not physically displace the defense that has established legal guarding position. Defense can have the elbow at 90 degrees with the same rules, but they may also make the “hand check” contact (contact for 3 seconds or less that while displaces the offense does not dislodge their possession of the ball. For a shooting foul to be administered, the shooting motion must be initiated prior to contact or the contact is considered incidental, and thus does not effect the offense’s ability to pass, dribble, or shoot.
This way we go ahead and get rid of the worst part of Football (American Soccer) and we keep the best part about it…dammit what’s it called we don’t have Worldly Football in Texas where I grew up…it’s like, like you play on even though there was a foul? Advantage? Is it called advantage in the English game? That’s the only language I don’t watch football in because they have teams. Bundesliga, Brazilian, or Mexico has the best announcers. Oof sorry anyway hopefully you get the point. You think Adam Silver reads the comments section of the Best Talk Show on Espn, well not at espn persay, but that they have to offer. Honestly any show where they aren’t just yelling at each other trying to express their “big ball” energy is better than most of what they have to offer.
Actually I haven’t watched it live since the got rid of J&J. So I don’t know maybe they have some good ones but this is definitely the best hands down. Bill Simmons is king of the Hot Take that comes true though. I think he goes all the way back to Kobe not quitting when all the other yahoos back then said he was a quitter. The other ones have great takes but we are still struggling with the zoom awkwardness where you think they pause and then you just talk right over them. It’s why I used to hate Bontemps, but I think he has good ideas off camera. Otherwise he oughta be more tactful with his words as well.
I love this podcast and I listen weekly but pls can you limit the mavs and Cavs talk, I mean there are 30 teams in the NBA, every week you talk about them. How about some OKC talk, they are way better and more interesting then those teams
Wanna fix NBA defenses? Give them the hand check back (3 seconds to touch, No grabbing or holding), Git rid of defensive 3 seconds, but keep the restricted circle. 56:33
The Mavs got a controversial non-call in the last seconds as well, when Doncic literally shoved Mobley out of bounds while he had the ball, the Mavs got the ball, and that led to the Mav's apparent game-winner with 2.6 seconds left on the clock
I'm expecting Windy's pockets to be deep after this binding he's doing for ESPN. I'm mean SAS was more positive on the Cavs then Windhorst and SAS didn't even watched the game.
No player has possession of the ball and contact was incidental. I stand by the official in that one. Maybe not actually lets call it a double foul next time. No possession heavy contact tweet tweet double foul. 38:00
The fact James Williams is considered a good ref should be an eye opener for the league. Also, that last 2 minute report was insulting. Its always been a worthless smokescreen by the league to try and play more defense for their terrible refs.
Haha Wizards to the Lizards!! MacMahon been working on his tight 5 for the Comedy Store, and Windy not even going to crack a smile?! C'mon man, give Tim 2 some credit. That was funny.
Who actually knows what rules to put in place to help defenses out in the NBA? All these conversations about it are just throwing pies at the wall to see which one sticks.
Oh yeah... sure... the Showtime Lakers and Bird Celtics were garbage. That was really bad basketball. What is really exciting is to watch guys airballing threes all of the time, games being stopped to check this and that and some more, fouls nobody can see nor understands, bad refereeing, annoying flopping all over the place, etc... come on... quit comparing eras. Compare the entertainment. How entertained was the game at that time, and how it is today. As someone who's old enough to having watched the game since then I can say that that is no comparison.
Let´s address the officiating problem in the NBA shall we? I watch the NBA games almost every night. There's no game that these guys don't screw the game over and over again. I wonder if the criteria to qualify as an NBA referee is simply upon merits or is there another kind of agenda. There's a lot of NBA referees that are young and new to the league. I used to recognize these guys from wathcing so many games. But now I've never seen half of them. Some of the calls are simply horrendous! Adam Silver please forget about anything else and just let the game be played the way it is supposed to be played. It's just simply freaking annoying to see so many bad calls every single game.
I hate to bring this up and this is the first I have heard if this official, but could he be in his position due to the league’s diversity initiative? 9:20
Performance improvement plans for refs. Don’t allow them to be crew chief and remove them from big meaningful games until they show that they’re ready.
Yep and the league and sports betting are in on it. Follow the money. Certain refs are agents following orders to aide the script and occasionally the spreads.
So the obvious game changing last two minute calls are obvious and definitely demonstrate flaws in officiating. No one is addressing the quick whistle sitting stars down affecting parlays and money lines without it being in the last two minutes. Jokic sat on two Serbian nights this year. don’t think that affected betting lines? Smells corrupt.
I would watch the European style of play if all the top talents in the world were playing out there. The only reason that I watch the NBA instead is because it's the historical home of legends and has always had and will have the best players in the world in it's teams. Frankly, I also am 25 years into NBA fandom and could never switch up to start caring about the canon and unfolding story of another basketball league in the way that I care about the story of the NBA and it's players, some of whom I have followed for decades. I'm also literally an American, so of course I watch my country's league. But, I watched far more of the NBA 20 years ago when the game more closely resembled real basketball and the style currently still played in Europe. Your argument is so flawed, Windy.
between the refs and the way teams guard injuries and lineups only a fool would gamble on basketball before this is fixed. nobody bet on just one day lol watch how fast this gets fixed lol
Cant we automate reffing yet ? Its human refs suck hard in all sports ... The var is soccer basically fixed reffing in that sport ... the strike zone machine fixed baseball .... etc ..
The NBA will literally have to hire former players to become referees and pay them a LOT of money. The real reason most of the modern referees SUCK is they've never played the game at a professional level and CANNOT respect the rules to the appropriate level. It's not an easy problem to solve but they need to make a concerted effort, too many bad calls are detrimental to this form of entertainment.
On Mitchells bank 3 Jared Allen sets a moving screen (missed call) Josh Green missed corner 3 gets fouled (missed call) Darius Garland travels with the ball (potential foul) and Cavs coach calls timeout (missed call) PJ Washington 2 pointer was possibly and AND 1 (missed call)
either it was a foul or a travel... the fact he got a timeout was insane! He didn't have possession at that point and would have been a jump ball@@TheElsMan
Mavericks are a pretty bad team outside of Kyrie and Luka. Bunch of below average players. If Luka isn't going for 35+ and Kyrie 30+ they'll have a hard time getting out the first round. LuKai are great. The rest aren't. Lively has nice potential but for what he is now, I'd be concerned with the rest of the roster.
I love windy and the hoop collective - this will be my last listen until McMahon is off the pod. This guy has more interest in putting himself in the news than actually reporting what's happening between the lines on a given night. Enough heightism, enough flaming players who are 100x more talented and professional than you for things that aren't even happening on the court, and enough of your senseless ego overruling common sense. Enough of you contaminating am otherwise informative podcast. Stick to your Dallas beat please and thank you. Adios hoop collective 👋
cmon dude, he is by far the best and most insightful NBA reporter, better than the other two on this podcast plus he brings life into these conversations
Signed, Josh. 5'6". Have fun listening to knuckleheads who played but are too entitled to do any research. On last pod Kevin Garnett talking about 45 games left in the season. Shaq and Chuck don't know a damthing about anybody outside the top 15. But sounds like you think they're the only ones who can do analysis on players.
Cavs hit a banked in three proceed to turnover the ball with 8 seconds on the inbounds and because they hit a 60 foot prayer. You think they deserve to be applauded foh😂
I had to go look up the James Williams ref riding an ATV during the Jazz game to believe it lol
James Williams was also the lead ref who said that Buddy Hield smacking Jaylen Brown in the head wasn't a foul.
The fact Celtics fans are still crying over the arguably correct call over minor contact on Jaylen's head instead of *_the call on Porzingis the refs admitted was wrong_* tells me everything I need to know about how hard y'all fall for your celebrity media narratives. I've even seen people saying Hield 'admitted' to fouling in a post game where he literally flat out does not do that
Cavs have like the 4th best record against winning teams and 2nd best record on the road but they talking like they’ve been lucky all year.
honestly, I'm shocked they didn't title it Mavs vs Cavs then talked about the Lakers, Warriors and Boston for an hour like with the 'hottest teams' video
the big market hogriding is crazy
its not big market hogriding, people dont wanna hear about jarret allen and darius garland bro
@@ricocharges1172 I do and I'm not a Cavs fan, especially after _the Strus incident..._ I just like good basketball and the Ws and Lakers are not in the same stratosphere in terms of playing it
The '04 Pistons are one of my favorite teams ever. That was a serious group. I honestly feel that the NBA peaked between 2001-06. The skill and shooting ability in the game today are wonderful, though. I only ask that we make it somewhat difficult again for the ball to go in the bucket. The skill and shooting won't go away if we revert the rules. It will still be there, it will just be somewhat toned down in its effectiveness when defense is allowed to be properly played again. It would be a wonderful mix, like kettle corn.
Someone’s gonna bite my kneecaps lmaoooooo. I’m dead
I watch every single hoop collective. The best NBA podcast 100%, keep it up yall!
All NBA pod with Tim Legler is equally as good
@@DTMJR1987agreed just started watching that
Man United made me switch sports too.
i think a good chunk of it is the energy/rapport between the hosts
Gafford playing just 7 minutes is insane. If only for rebounding and as a lob threat, he is definitely better than Lively at this point.
Upside, tho. League invests in young stars now. Used to have vets to teach the youngins how to move off the court, but not so much anymore. Gafford is only 25 but his ceiling feels more known than Lively's, even if he is better currently. They'll probably go back and forth on minutes.
I think lively does more things better. Gafford is better against big strong guys right now but lively is better overall. They should be splitting time idc who starts
He got cooked on defense in those 7 mins. That's why he didn't play much
Had had a terrible game and was getting played off the court. Him getting 7 minutes that game is fine. And he is not better than Lively in a lot of areas that are more important for the Mavs success (ex. Shortroll and perimeter defense)
I highly doubt that you "ran" into people, Windy;-)..
Great pod as always, guys! Much love from Munich:)
My favorite trio to listen to talk about basketball!
I really think just balancing the calls-contact initiation and obstruction-between the Offense and the Defense would do a world of good. That being said, why not change Def-3-Sec to Def-5-sec? It would marginally increase the ability of the defense to DEFEND their position. Fewer rotations necessary, thus less getting caught on switches and out of position.
The Cavs are so dangerous because every game somebody else steps up, they can pretty much always count on Mitchell as well. I been following Max since the 1st game with the Bulls, his shot remainded me to the 2021 summer legue. Miss him in Miami, thanks to Lowry's contract couldn't keep him. Glad he is doing so well, pretty much our only sucess story out of Miami, but I knew he would, because he is that kinda guy. Now we console ourselves with Robinson, but I hope he is gone next year. Go Heat, go Cavs !.
Garland is hoping donovan doesnt sign the extension. He is on the trading block if he does.
Facts 😂
57:57
Offensive players can have their elbows extended to 90 degrees so long as they do not physically displace the defense that has established legal guarding position.
Defense can have the elbow at 90 degrees with the same rules, but they may also make the “hand check” contact (contact for 3 seconds or less that while displaces the offense does not dislodge their possession of the ball.
For a shooting foul to be administered, the shooting motion must be initiated prior to contact or the contact is considered incidental, and thus does not effect the offense’s ability to pass, dribble, or shoot.
This way we go ahead and get rid of the worst part of Football (American Soccer) and we keep the best part about it…dammit what’s it called we don’t have Worldly Football in Texas where I grew up…it’s like, like you play on even though there was a foul? Advantage? Is it called advantage in the English game? That’s the only language I don’t watch football in because they have teams. Bundesliga, Brazilian, or Mexico has the best announcers.
Oof sorry anyway hopefully you get the point. You think Adam Silver reads the comments section of the Best Talk Show on Espn, well not at espn persay, but that they have to offer. Honestly any show where they aren’t just yelling at each other trying to express their “big ball” energy is better than most of what they have to offer.
Actually I haven’t watched it live since the got rid of J&J. So I don’t know maybe they have some good ones but this is definitely the best hands down. Bill Simmons is king of the Hot Take that comes true though. I think he goes all the way back to Kobe not quitting when all the other yahoos back then said he was a quitter.
The other ones have great takes but we are still struggling with the zoom awkwardness where you think they pause and then you just talk right over them. It’s why I used to hate Bontemps, but I think he has good ideas off camera. Otherwise he oughta be more tactful with his words as well.
MacMahon's mini ATV joke still has me chuckling. 😅
I love this podcast and I listen weekly but pls can you limit the mavs and Cavs talk, I mean there are 30 teams in the NBA, every week you talk about them. How about some OKC talk, they are way better and more interesting then those teams
Wanna fix NBA defenses?
Give them the hand check back (3 seconds to touch, No grabbing or holding),
Git rid of defensive 3 seconds, but keep the restricted circle. 56:33
If the game becomes “boring” or “stale” like they have said it would be in the past, then throw back in defensive 3 secs.
The Mavs got a controversial non-call in the last seconds as well, when Doncic literally shoved Mobley out of bounds while he had the ball, the Mavs got the ball, and that led to the Mav's apparent game-winner with 2.6 seconds left on the clock
Windy talking about +/- with Evan Mobley and garland but they had a better +/- than every other starter
Garland has sucked the whole season. As a cavs fan I'm saying this
I'm expecting Windy's pockets to be deep after this binding he's doing for ESPN. I'm mean SAS was more positive on the Cavs then Windhorst and SAS didn't even watched the game.
I agree with mcmahon on the lob rule change. Should be a foul if you hit the guy while he's in the air
No player has possession of the ball and contact was incidental. I stand by the official in that one. Maybe not actually lets call it a double foul next time. No possession heavy contact tweet tweet double foul. 38:00
Proposed rule change: If a defender blocks the ball out of bounds on the full, they get possession. Call it a "super block".
The fact James Williams is considered a good ref should be an eye opener for the league. Also, that last 2 minute report was insulting. Its always been a worthless smokescreen by the league to try and play more defense for their terrible refs.
Haha Wizards to the Lizards!! MacMahon been working on his tight 5 for the Comedy Store, and Windy not even going to crack a smile?! C'mon man, give Tim 2 some credit. That was funny.
The knicks call was not that bad a no call. It was at the end. Who cares. Monty is a loser
Who actually knows what rules to put in place to help defenses out in the NBA? All these conversations about it are just throwing pies at the wall to see which one sticks.
"Free food is always good." - Tim MacMahon
tim mac it's easy to be skilled when nobody guards.
Oh yeah... sure... the Showtime Lakers and Bird Celtics were garbage. That was really bad basketball. What is really exciting is to watch guys airballing threes all of the time, games being stopped to check this and that and some more, fouls nobody can see nor understands, bad refereeing, annoying flopping all over the place, etc... come on... quit comparing eras. Compare the entertainment. How entertained was the game at that time, and how it is today. As someone who's old enough to having watched the game since then I can say that that is no comparison.
Let´s address the officiating problem in the NBA shall we? I watch the NBA games almost every night. There's no game that these guys don't screw the game over and over again. I wonder if the criteria to qualify as an NBA referee is simply upon merits or is there another kind of agenda. There's a lot of NBA referees that are young and new to the league. I used to recognize these guys from wathcing so many games. But now I've never seen half of them. Some of the calls are simply horrendous! Adam Silver please forget about anything else and just let the game be played the way it is supposed to be played. It's just simply freaking annoying to see so many bad calls every single game.
There were a whole lot more missed/terrible calls in the game and down the stretch than the Josh Green corner 3.
Not the kneecaps
I felt like WIndy's 6 year old with that breakdown lol
Kid: Oh, so like in skibidi toilet season 7
That Wizards sledge from TB did not get the kudos it deserved. Come on Windy, that deserved more than a random forehead scratch!
The Washington joke 💀
Bontemps hates Mobley
I hate to bring this up and this is the first I have heard if this official, but could he be in his position due to the league’s diversity initiative? 9:20
Tim McMahon is awesome.
If Cavs were missing 3s, they would have needed his size for boards.
Performance improvement plans for refs.
Don’t allow them to be crew chief and remove them from big meaningful games until they show that they’re ready.
If they're gonna be like this, let's just have more attractive women. Catch the Idiocracy wave!
NBA refs literally still doing what Donaghy told you…this guy cheated his ring off
Yep and the league and sports betting are in on it. Follow the money. Certain refs are agents following orders to aide the script and occasionally the spreads.
Mavericks fouled darius with 10 secs on clock . Ref ate his whistle but the the great Rasheed Wallace "ball dont Lie"
So the obvious game changing last two minute calls are obvious and definitely demonstrate flaws in officiating. No one is addressing the quick whistle sitting stars down affecting parlays and money lines without it being in the last two minutes. Jokic sat on two Serbian nights this year. don’t think that affected betting lines? Smells corrupt.
I would watch the European style of play if all the top talents in the world were playing out there. The only reason that I watch the NBA instead is because it's the historical home of legends and has always had and will have the best players in the world in it's teams. Frankly, I also am 25 years into NBA fandom and could never switch up to start caring about the canon and unfolding story of another basketball league in the way that I care about the story of the NBA and it's players, some of whom I have followed for decades. I'm also literally an American, so of course I watch my country's league. But, I watched far more of the NBA 20 years ago when the game more closely resembled real basketball and the style currently still played in Europe. Your argument is so flawed, Windy.
between the refs and the way teams guard injuries and lineups only a fool would gamble on basketball before this is fixed. nobody bet on just one day lol watch how fast this gets fixed lol
mavs they look great but gave up 10 point lead
The JKidd special
Not to take a timeout to cool down Max Strus is pathetic coaching. JKidd should be fired.
Lololol Washington Lizards...I love that. We need more progressive minds like this in the NBA. Adam Silver get this guy in a position of power.
Cant we automate reffing yet ? Its human refs suck hard in all sports ...
The var is soccer basically fixed reffing in that sport ... the strike zone machine fixed baseball .... etc ..
The NBA will literally have to hire former players to become referees and pay them a LOT of money. The real reason most of the modern referees SUCK is they've never played the game at a professional level and CANNOT respect the rules to the appropriate level. It's not an easy problem to solve but they need to make a concerted effort, too many bad calls are detrimental to this form of entertainment.
Bontemps voice can be tiring.
No one makes you listen to it 😊
go watch first take and stay away from us
Lol grimes playing well. What?
On Mitchells bank 3 Jared Allen sets a moving screen (missed call)
Josh Green missed corner 3 gets fouled (missed call)
Darius Garland travels with the ball (potential foul) and Cavs coach calls timeout (missed call)
PJ Washington 2 pointer was possibly and AND 1 (missed call)
Cope
Dude there were so many non-calls for the Mavs on the interior all game, not to mention when they tackled garland at the end!
You mean when he traveled? @@TheElsMan
@@kohta20 cause -> effect 🤦🏻♂️
either it was a foul or a travel... the fact he got a timeout was insane! He didn't have possession at that point and would have been a jump ball@@TheElsMan
Mavericks are a pretty bad team outside of Kyrie and Luka. Bunch of below average players. If Luka isn't going for 35+ and Kyrie 30+ they'll have a hard time getting out the first round. LuKai are great. The rest aren't. Lively has nice potential but for what he is now, I'd be concerned with the rest of the roster.
New to basketball?
@@DunningKrugerJnr What point are you even trying to make?
I love windy and the hoop collective - this will be my last listen until McMahon is off the pod. This guy has more interest in putting himself in the news than actually reporting what's happening between the lines on a given night. Enough heightism, enough flaming players who are 100x more talented and professional than you for things that aren't even happening on the court, and enough of your senseless ego overruling common sense. Enough of you contaminating am otherwise informative podcast. Stick to your Dallas beat please and thank you. Adios hoop collective 👋
he has a really hard time being objective about the mavs I will say. Pretty tough to listen to at times.
You'll be back. These guys are great
cmon dude, he is by far the best and most insightful NBA reporter, better than the other two on this podcast plus he brings life into these conversations
Signed, Josh. 5'6". Have fun listening to knuckleheads who played but are too entitled to do any research. On last pod Kevin Garnett talking about 45 games left in the season. Shaq and Chuck don't know a damthing about anybody outside the top 15. But sounds like you think they're the only ones who can do analysis on players.
here we go… starts the pod with how good the losing team looks. LMFAO gtfo man
Cavs hit a banked in three proceed to turnover the ball with 8 seconds on the inbounds and because they hit a 60 foot prayer. You think they deserve to be applauded foh😂
West is more interesting you know that
@@itsjustbrycejyes retard. strus had one of the most insane 3 minutes of clutch basketball this year
Take away the corner 3 being worth 3