Andy Schleichardt I am reasonably certain they never moved. Small pastoral villages slowly developing into kingdoms. With cultural influences from Egypt and Asia minor.
All the ancient Greek writers acknowledge the are the descendants of the Pelasgians. Which is why up until classical times the Pelasgians regions in Greece are documented (Thykedidis- Peloponnesian War/Homer-Iliad). Greeks never came from anywhere. The ancients claim they were created from Hellenic soil and the modern historians claim they came from elsewhere. The second oldest human skull 11 millon and oldest full human skeleton 750 000 years old are in Greece in Petralona. The oldest European structure, 24 000 years old is found in Kastoria. And by the way Neandrathals have never lived in Greece.
It seems they arrived almost the same time with the celts. I believe they came from SW Anatolia (Milet, Ephesus), being somehow banished by the Hitties. They took revenged with the Trojan Wars, but lost their homeland. They returned with the 'golden fleece' before 800BC with the help or the fleet of the phoenicians (they appear to be the former See People) to whom where previously 'introduced' during Crete conquest by the mycenians (1600BC). Greeks, like semitic speaking people are not a single people but a collection of tribes with common interest. All the best! BTW, My grand-grandmother was a greek woman from Epir, and I was being rised and educated by my greek foster-grandfather, so I kinda know, and feel, what the greek is mostly about: honor, family and bloodline, pride, and yes, honor! 😉👍🌈
The critique of Hanson is based on Nakassis setting up a strawman and taking Hanson out of context. In fact there is zero evidence non, that the Mycenaeans exercised any consensual government or even discuses it. no evidence proto-capialism was present, no evidence that the individual and his liberty was any concern at all.
@@ranro7371 no it definitely wasn't and the dna science shows the Mycenaeans are related to modern day ethnic Greeks just like they were related to the Greeks of Hellenic times
So basically another "Westerners are all prejudice " lecture that seems to have gained so much popularity recently. Or, what smart people call psuedo-history.....
"Talented individuals who have shown extraordinary originality and dedication in their creative pursuits and a marked capacity for self-direction" ...I Nominate: Dr. Jordan Peterson!
So. After all this revisiting & revising, where does it leave us?
Probably the best analysis & critic of Finley's model!
Excellent lecture! Excellent!
Wish I can find more info on TH-cam about pre-Greek culture. Maybe something about where these interesting people came from.
Andy Schleichardt
I am reasonably certain they never moved. Small pastoral villages slowly developing into kingdoms. With cultural influences from Egypt and Asia minor.
All the ancient Greek writers acknowledge the are the descendants of the Pelasgians. Which is why up until classical times the Pelasgians regions in Greece are documented (Thykedidis- Peloponnesian War/Homer-Iliad). Greeks never came from anywhere. The ancients claim they were created from Hellenic soil and the modern historians claim they came from elsewhere. The second oldest human skull 11 millon and oldest full human skeleton 750 000 years old are in Greece in Petralona. The oldest European structure, 24 000 years old is found in Kastoria. And by the way Neandrathals have never lived in Greece.
@@simban00 Sure, buddy. AHAHA
It seems they arrived almost the same time with the celts. I believe they came from SW Anatolia (Milet, Ephesus), being somehow banished by the Hitties. They took revenged with the Trojan Wars, but lost their homeland. They returned with the 'golden fleece' before 800BC with the help or the fleet of the phoenicians (they appear to be the former See People) to whom where previously 'introduced' during Crete conquest by the mycenians (1600BC). Greeks, like semitic speaking people are not a single people but a collection of tribes with common interest. All the best! BTW, My grand-grandmother was a greek woman from Epir, and I was being rised and educated by my greek foster-grandfather, so I kinda know, and feel, what the greek is mostly about: honor, family and bloodline, pride, and yes, honor! 😉👍🌈
@@siblinganon66 They would have had a difficult time getting their bronze and ivory if they didn't move.
Very good.
This is a really superb piece of scholarship. Best analysis I've heard on the period, by far.
Damos reminds me of Demos=the people and Thema, later, larger administrative division during Byzantine times.
My God, it’s like someone hit a buzzword pinata with a sledgehammer.
👍and an very interesting lecture based on information.
The critique of Hanson is based on Nakassis setting up a strawman and taking Hanson out of context. In fact there is zero evidence non, that the Mycenaeans exercised any consensual government or even discuses it. no evidence proto-capialism was present, no evidence that the individual and his liberty was any concern at all.
Was the individual and his liberty any concern in classical Athens?
VDH doesn't seem to know anything substantive about the pre-Classical Mediterranean
Plenty of arcane academic arguments, Mycenean history - not so much.
The lecture isn’t about history. It’s about how history is constructed and distorted through historical models.
So we differentiate between Mycenae Greece and say Hellenistic Greece because of racism? This is why getting a good education is so dam hard now
Mycene was an Egyptian offshoot
@@ranro7371 More Minoan
These are simply different chronological terms
@@ranro7371 WTF? Get off the drugs
@@ranro7371 no it definitely wasn't and the dna science shows the Mycenaeans are related to modern day ethnic Greeks just like they were related to the Greeks of Hellenic times
So basically another "Westerners are all prejudice " lecture that seems to have gained so much popularity recently.
Or, what smart people call psuedo-history.....
"Talented individuals who have shown extraordinary originality and dedication in their creative pursuits and a marked capacity for self-direction" ...I Nominate: Dr. Jordan Peterson!
Abysmal ! Gabbled , cliche ridden ramblings. Have academic standards really sunk to this level ?
You talk waaay too fast.