In a tongue-in-cheek sarcastic way, I'd say the main differences between autism and OCD are funding, activism, and du-jour coolness. When Orion was saying that if he loses something, everything stops till he finds it - if a similar thing happened with OCD (like if your hair is touching your face and it drives you nuts and you absolutely can't move on till you've fixed it so it doesn't feel weird anymore), you'd be expected to work very hard on not being bothered by it. Like as someone with lifelong (well, at least from age 7), severe OCD, I have to go to Exposure and Response Prevention CBT to become like a "normal" person, working really hard at it. Does Orion have to go to classes to learn how to not be bothered that he's misplaced something? I feel like with OCD, it's seen as being within your control to fix, and your responsibility to fix, whereas because of all the advocating Autistic people (and their mothers) have done, people just say, "I'm autistic," and they get nods of understanding and extra time on tests. I'd like understanding of OCD, but I can't see anybody accepting us or appreciating us anytime soon. There's a subtype of OCD called "Disgust OCD" (lots of OCDers have symptoms of this type along with symptoms of other subtypes, as I do). With that type, there are certain things that bother you and are completely unacceptable and unbearable to you, like slimy textures, the texture of dough in your mouth (that's one of my worst), the feeling of your hair not being perfectly pulled back and touching one ear, the feel of dry things (like sand dust left on your feet after being on a beach, or powdery things), the smell of vanilla or cigarette smoke, etc. This type of OCD i think is the closest to Autism, because there is no compensatory behaviour other than avoiding or getting away from the trigger. Like with classical OCD, if I get a sudden thought, hey, this house has flooring from the 1960s, when asbestos was widely used - what if this flooring IS asbestos, and what if when I moved that chair it caused asbestos dust to fly up from the flooring's seams by the wall, and I inhaled it? If I was having severe OCD at the time, i might have to throw out all the clothes I was wearing, shower, cut my hair off in case it got on it...none of which makes sense because if you've inhaled it, you've inhaled it, and no amount of showering is going to turn that around, and clothes could be washed instead of thrown out. Also, with OCD, you might have "tendencies" as a baby or very young child, which my mum says I did, because I couldn't stand the feel of my socks as an infant and would cry and cry until I managed to kick them off, and then I'd be happy again. Later in childhood I still had a problem with socks - if the seams weren't straight it would send me into what autistic people seem to call a "meltdown" until it was fixed. But researchers think you probably need a "trigger" in the form of a virus or something else to develop full-on OCD. Whereas it seems that autistic people are born that way - aren't they? Also you can be born with autism so severe that you're delayed in learning to walk and speak and stuff like that, whereas there's no such thing as OCD that is so severe you don't meet developmental milestones, if you know what I mean? My next-door neighbour's kid has severe autism and can't function on his own. Like sometimes when he sits down (he's 18 now) he can't get up without his mum telling him where to put his feet and hands so he can stand up. That kind of thing doesn't happen with OCD. Another major difference from an OCDer's point of view is that OCD people don't have a problem understanding social cues and stuff like that. I feel like the disorders arise from completely different places, but whatever causes them can affect behaviour in a similar way. Like you can have a rash that looks just like a rash someone else has, but one could be caused by an allergy and another by heat stroke.
After reading your comment, this might be a bit nitpicky but it feels important for me to say you cannot get a mental disorder from a virus that's not how that works. Mental illness is not a "disease" the way like COVID is a disease. Edit: Also many autistic people are forced to go to ABA therapy as children to force them to be "normal" in ways that are often experienced as traumatic or even abusive. I think we live in cultures that tend to be pretty ableist across the board if you don't align with some completely made up and arbitrary "norm" so I don't know how useful it really is to talk about how "X group of people are treated better than Y group". It all falls under neurodivergence to me and personally I feel like that's what really matters. All of these diagnoses are made up anyway, which doesn't mean the experiences you have aren't real but just that these categories are sort of arbitrary, like at one point some doctors/psychiatrists just decided to call one thing "autism" and another thing "OCD" but like those are just convenient names for a set of observable behaviors.
Hi, there is some necessary behaviour modification in autism, it's just less common in milder cases. For me I was taught to tolerate wearing trousers, which is a lot like the disgust OCD you mentioned. I also have to force myself to drink water when it's gross + I have no real thirst cue You also have to learn not to do certain behaviours, like if a stim is too harmful it should be redirected to a less harmful stim. Or if you eat non-food items like I used to, it is very important you stop, because otherwise you can die I think it's just less known, because the people at the forefront of advocacy + information lean milder because that stuff is harder for those that are moderate or severe. Sometimes this is done using ABA techniques, which sometimes do more good than harm if done in a sensitive manner. Especially when stopping some behaviours or learning some skills can really be necessary And maybe there should be some leniency for some aspects of OCD - therapy definitely needs to be more individualised imo, to accommodate for things like the disgust OCD that you've described as being intolerable
I feel OCD/OCD-like behavior rears it head in ASD due to sensory overload. It is a way to feel in control when one has little or no control of environmental stimulation.
Holy shit. I never thought about that. I never had intrusive thoughts whenever I was working from home and wasn't around other people. But now that I work in a grocery store and am surrounded by tons of different types of people at all times all day, the intrusive thoughts have been coming in a lot more frequently. Maybe I should find a job where I don't have to be around people again, but I've really liked not being lonely at work though
Fucking sucks cuz it's such a double edged sword cuz I feel like I'm finally happy in this job for once in my life. But the anxiety from all the people and sounds all the time are driving me insane
Amen seriously. I start cleaning and finding things I obsess over to do when I'm on sensory overload. Instead of socializing I end up cleaning and isolating lol
For me it's also a direct result of my fear of uncertainty+change. I know I will inevitably struggle with change+uncertainty of any kind, so OCD developed to make me feel in control that way. Which it doesn't 😂 But sensory issues also do tend to trigger me into a ritual loop. Doing something over, and over, and over until it 'feels right'. Repeating an action or word until I've 'completed it'. Also my need for routine. I know some autistic people say they hate routine but for me I can't function without my own specific routine. So if that gets messed up? Queue OCD. Autism+OCD are linked, and I think its easier for us to end up having it because of how we are already neurologically predisposed. I'm autistic, but I know I have OCD too which I feel I picked up as a way to cope with all of these autistic traits+stresses before I was diagnosed especially. As I learn about my own autism, I'm able to better manage the OCD symptoms too. But before I knew I was autistic...OCD stole months+almost years from me.
You can have both, as well as the trifecta of ASD, OCD and ADHD. All three involve executive dysfunction and all 3 can lead rise to similar problems. However, in the case of OCD, it is important to remember that it is an anxiety disorder. If you're looking for something because you can't think of doing something else until it's found, that's not necessarily OCD, that could just be ASD fixation. But, if there's an anxiety component in that there's unrelated consequences that's going to point towards it being OCD related and not necessarily related to ASD or ADHD. Likewise, making sure to check to see that you have your keys before leaving could be ADHD or ASD related if it's something that happens from time to time, or even regularly, but if it's either never happened or only happened a few times, it's more likely to be OCD than the other two. I've personally definitely got both OCD and ADHD and at absolute bare minimum a ton of strong ASD traits and it can be a bit of a challenge to figure out which condition is causing it, and if you choose wrong, you're probably not going to make decisions that improve the situation.
My mom identifies as autistic and has a diagnosis of OCD. I was given the diagnosis of OCD as a teenager and got my autism diagnosis last year. So fascinating! Great video! I also really appreciate the visuals of your sources and literature as I'm terrible with auditory learning. ❤
Honestly this is the first time I've commented ever on TH-cam. I just wanted to say a big Thankyou for your videos. I'm a late bloomer like yourself. After my ASD and ARFID diagnosis AT 37 I'm trying so hard to navigate the mental health system and balance my life around how ASD effects me. Your videos have helped ALOT and I'm very much looking forward to more. Keep up the good work mate 👍👍👍
Yet OCD is much more accepted then autism. For me, work is very important. I know how the quality is, and what is acceptable, or a reject item on the 3 items I have run the most in my almost 3 months of working there. If I am unsure, I will set it aside, and ask the quality check person as she goes around. The other day I came in, and there was a partial tote of product. I could not accept them and put them under my name, until I had checked them myself. Since I was packing, the product goes down under my credentials. I know the other shifts don't check the parts hardly at all, and I could not refrain from inspecting the 70 pieces of product. They then told me I was going to move to another line, and I still could not leave until I had checked the parts on the 1st task. I physically could not. It didn't matter if I was fired or not. I could not leave my name on there if I didn't check the parts. I don't know what that is, but if I would have been able to stop, it would have bothered me all day. My name on it means that I personally guarantee that these parts are good and ready to go. If I don't know that, then how can my name be on it? Conversely, even though it would bother me that the parts were fixable, but still bad, as long as my name was not attached to it I would have at least been able to stop myself. It would have been hard, but I could have done it. With them not allowing me to take my name off of it, I just couldn't. Long story short, I blamed OCD, saying I may have the disorder, and I was sorry, but I had to finish this task. I was allowed to finish it. Had I blamed autism, I'm not sure the outcome would have been the same.. which is sad.
I am autistic, not OCD. I stim to self-regulate and use a variety of fidgets to accomplish that. It depends on which ones I have on me and where I am. I have ones that are more discreet, my key ring bike chain one or my hacky sack. I also have ones I'm more likely to use at home or around family, my spinners or folding cube (it clicks as I fold and unfold it). I can see how someone who is autistic could be diagnosed as OCD, between our intense, obsessive interests, our stimming, and rigidity of routine. I have a routine I follow every morning with dishing out my medications for the day, but I am not compelled to perform this routine at 7 am every day no matter how tired I am. I am not the only member of my extended family who is autistic or otherwise non-neurotypical, but as far as I am aware, none of us are OCD.
In general, my rituals tend to save me time. For instance, the non-ritualized showers that I used to take 20+ years ago were much longer than my ritualized showers. For one, the ritual cuts down on my think time and it's doing "deep thinking" while try to do something else that makes me take longer.
I am diagnosed with both OCD and ASD. I am afraid to leave my house without doing my ‘routine’ first, because I am worried that something will happen to my cats when I am away (so I check a lot of things before I leave) I also use my ‘routine’ to encourage myself to leave the house and engage in social interactions. The outside world feels scary and overwhelming. I need the routine to give myself a ‘peptalk’ or something, so in that sense it’s stimming behavior I guess🤔
TBH, I learned to just accept that the house might burn down if I forgot to turn off the stove or thieves might make off with all my stuff if I forgot to lock the door. I then make sure to really and thoroughly do both, going so far as to do it as slowly as possible to give my brain as much of a chance to register it being done as possible. The alternative is often it just spiraling out of control.
You should see if you can interview The Aspie World. He has disclosed that he has an ASD and OCD diagnosis. I think it would be a great video. You have a talent for asking good questions.
I'm a 30 year old guy and have OCD and I'm almost convinced I also have autism (not diagnosed though). I have obsessive thoughts and "fears" that I can't get out of my head until I do a curtain ritual. But on the other hand, I also have obsessions I really enjoy. Also, I usually find myself stimming with the closet object I can reach, for non OCD reasons.
Remember, OCD obsessions are not enjoyable. They feed from fear and lead to compulsions that are also not enjoyable even when they give temporary relief to the distress. If you really like trains and obsess over them, or if you count to 10 to calm yourself down from a sensory overload, that's not OCD because the obsession is something you like and the compulsion doesn't come from an obsession. Hope that helps!
And also, compulsions can be mental. Body checking, ruminating, problem solving, just acknowledging the thought and giving in to think more about it are compulsions
Thank you, sir! My son (20) has ASD and can be a handful, even at the age he is atm. A few years back I started noticing him exhibiting ritualistic behavior (example: my son would walk into his room and circle the area before shutting the door) as time wore on, other ritualistic behavior began popping up and really started to become concerning to me. When my son was much younger he did not exhibit any of this behavior. I started to believe he had or was developing OCD, even though my observations weren’t solid, having no experience with identifying it myself I gave it more time in an attempt to understand it more. After watching this video I’ve come to understand that my son’s ritualistic behavior is more autism related rather than OCD. Thank you for the knowledge, it has set me straighter 🤙
I’ve got a good example of a stim I use to help me calm down and a compulsion I preform when I’m really anxious or stressed. I keep pieces of satin ribbon in my pocket all time and when I need to regulate or calm down, I’ll rub one between my fingers over and over again. My compulsions seem to be more self-destructive. I have trichotillomania so my anxiety makes me pull out my beard hair one at a time
Another thing to pay attention to is whether it's increasing or not. Stims don't usually increase on their own. They increase when whatever it is that you're feeling does, and then typically go back to normal. OCD rituals have a tendency to be self-reinforcing, so more rituals frequently leads to more anxiety that leads to more rituals.
And if you haven't both already been screened for ADHD, you probably should as both carry a significant incidence of ADHD. One of the reasons why I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD for so long was that it's only been relatively recently where having both ADHD and OCD was considered possible. ADHD hyperfocus can look a lot like OCD over focus. And OCD hoarding can look a lot like ADHD no idea what to get rid of. And there's plenty of other ways in which they can look similar, until you dig down and figure out what's driving the particular thing.
Wow I thought I was alone this video told me otherwise not only has this video calmed me down but the fact I’m not alone also I was always destroying myself mentally and I hated myself for so long but now I’ve seen this it has helped so thank you 🙏
The correct number of times to shake your milkshake (or anything else that needs to be shaken) is 16. The correct number of times to shake your hands out over the sink after washing them is 8. The correct number of sips to take from a bottle in any one go is 1, 2 or 4 or 8 (next would be 12 but that's only if you're really thirsty. Not sure if I've ever reached 16 (which would be next). Would probably pass out first). I think those are the only things I specifically count. Well, probably not but the only things I do regularly that I can remember at this very moment.
Scheduled for an ASD evaluation and currently have an OCD and a disputed diagnosis of OCPD. If I am found to be on the spectrum then I believe I would have a full picture of myself. I answered "I don’t know" or "Both" to all of your questions. The task question was particularly insightful because I have several examples of both types of 'hang ups'.
OCD + OCPD seems kind of odd. OCPD is more or less just a more extreme form of the "type A" personality from what I've read. Something that wouldn't likely possible to differentiate from OCD typically.
@@orionkelly each of your videos has it's own quality. I think there is no need to compare. Depends on who needs which information at what time. Got it? Huh? Huh!? 🙃
A friend of mine is collecting DVDs. After telling her I swapped the places of DVDs, she had to open everyone of them. -It wasn’t a nice joke, but that was OCD. Tackling it in a playful manor might lower the sensitivity or compulsion over time.
The accompanying behaviours are the same as they both result from stress that originates from demands that exceed capacities. They are a way to control the world and decrease anxiety.
I know you already know about Claire from The Woodshed Theory, but some of your viewers might not know about her channel. She does some good videos being autistic and having a comorbidity of OCD. Also The Aspie world. He has a few comorbidities, two of them being autistic and OCD. Order and everything in its place. That's me. It can be distressing at times if things aren't just so. But I can be flexible in my order and routine. Thanks for your video.
What gets really fun is when you get more than just the two. I've definitely got ADHD and OCD and at absolute bare minimum, I've got significant ASD traits. And it gets kind of confusing as to which disorder is driving some of my thoughts and behaviors. And depending upon which one it is, there are a different set of coping strategies that seem to work best. I always assumed my hatred of reaching into a sink full of dirty dishes without gloves on was an OCD cleanliness thing, but I've realized that the reaction comes pretty much immediately after the stuff is in there with water. Which means it's more likely and ASD type of reaction to the texture than an OCD reaction to the cleanliness as there's not anything really that different in the minute or two the dirty plates go from being touchable food plates to being untouchable dirty dishes. Plus, I'm not typically a germophobe in other areas, just this one. OTOH, having the opposing conditions does tend to regulate the symptoms a bit as I can't just do the things the way one or the other condition demands without one or more of the other conditions getting upset with me.
The autism angle seems to relate more to object constancy and the ocd more to this fear of being bad and thus by acting out the fear in the environment , you can alleviate anxiety. Admittedly, I find the epistemology between both of these fascinating and highly confusing
My 29 year old Asperger’s daughter, had a tumor in her bladder in 2019. After surgery she had an episode where she couldn’t urinate due to a blood clot. After that, she began to spend a lot of time on the toilet. Now she has a toilet schedule and ritual. I think she may be receptive to ideas to improve her situation.
As an Aspie with once perfect memory (before I crashed mentally) I remembered almost every detail on things my brain decided was important and later in life I came to the conclusion that my perfect memory was because of a compulsion of being in control. The best thing in my life is when my brain broke and that partly disappeared, because remember every lie, every shrug, every promise not held and so on was extremely painful. I still can't get bad memories out of my head but I actually don't care if I am in full control because I know everyone always lie and deceive so I try not to remember anything regarding other people. It for sure was OCD (it was extreme in all details I stored in my head with almost fear of not remembering) but you could say I was cured by being abused by everyone.
I purposefully damaged as much of my memory as I could in order to keep the ASD presentation at bay. If I let myself take a walk in the mental archives I always return talking and acting like Rainman. (And yes, I'm aware that he's not autistic, he's a savant, it's unfortunate that "autistic savant" was the correct term for a period)
Dude, I use that book every day to diagnose people and what you do is typical. You read great. You’re articulate well. So, what the heck is an obsession or a compulsion before you go explaining all that stuff just start with the basics like define terms.
What if the thing is just done and no reason to do it? I would constantly repeat numbers. Count syllables and make patterns. Then just repeat a certain set of numbers 24/7 unless I was sleeping lol… A few weeks ago it changed to letter themes. I just take the first letter of each word I hear, read, or speak… and I line them up and search for patterns in the letters. I cannot stop it. But I don’t do it to decrease anxiety. I don’t have intrusive thoughts except for the actual letters themselves. I repeat and repeat continually. I am trying to find a way to quiet it and so far I’ve found that if I’m typing up words like I am now it actually does kinda slow it down a bit. Any advice??
My 7yo son has adhd and asd. Recently he has been exhibiting a lot of ocd behaviors that seem to have slowly built up over time. The problem is that his ocd behaviors all revolve around other people's participation in the way that he has to go back and say goodbye to people over and over again and he expects you to always respond in the way that makes him most comfortable. If he blows 2 kisses you have to blow 2 back bc 1 won't cut it. I've seen him melt down on more than one occasion bc he has said hi to someone in passing and they either don't hear him or they do something like wave instead of saying hi back. He has also missed his school bus a few times bc of having to go back into the house to say goodbye/iloveyou/blow kisses upwards of 8 - 10 times. I don't know that we would have that many issues if he exhibited his ocd behaviors in different ways that didn't directly involve the participation of others ...heck, we would be thrilled if he would just wash his hands instead of being completely obstinate about it! These are relatively new behaviors for all of us and we are not sure how to deal with them. They are all centered around him showing love and affection so we don't want to shut him down and make him feel that his love is not valid or "too much" but we don't want to feed into it either. There is no real source that we can find - no one has ever "left" him or shunned his love/affection, both parents are present and in the house as a family unit and he hasn't had any grandparents pass away. Any suggestions/advice is always appreciated. I know this is an older video and I hope my comment gets seen bc we could sure use some help.
Adult with ASD and OCD here. I would suggest seeking out a professional assessment, to help figure out if it's OCD at work. I know that autistic people, in particular, can have repetitive or ritualistic behaviours that feel right to them. So you want to parse out the difference. It could also have to do with separation anxiety as well. If it's OCD, these compulsive behaviours you're describing will have an obsession behind it-a distressing thought, fear or even source of disgust that the behaviour is trying to mitigate. Try being curious and asking your son why he does it. Is he afraid of something bad happening? Does everything just feel wrong if he doesn't do it and he has to do it to feel complete? Is he trying to feel in control of something? Is he doubting that people actually love them and looking for reassurance? And there doesn't have to be a real-life "source" for OCD content. The brain just throws whatever thoughts it likes at you, so obsessions can be magical or imaginative by nature. Someone could be afraid of causing a car accident if they don't open and close any door they use three times, for example. The obsession and compulsion could be completely logically unrelated, or unrealistic, but the brain latches on anyway.
@@pokelolmc6826 thank you so much for your well- worded and thoughtful reply! We actually have our first appointment with the only child neuropsychiatrist in our area next Thursday so hopefully that will be the beginning of working through some of this. When we try to probe into causes or reasons why he does some of the things he does the conversation devolves quickly. We will ask a question and he will say "what did you say?" 4 or 5 times (I don't know if he is getting distracted due to the adhd or if he is choosing to not comprehend what we are asking) and then he just says "I don't know" but in a frustrated leave-me-alone way and doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He is 8 and in 2nd grade. He has an IEP and gets As and Bs in school so he is not stupid by any means yet his maturity level seems to regress any time we try to talk to him about something that is not super interested in. It's confusing and even his school is having trouble deciphering which times his proclivities and actions are driven by natural adhd/asd/ocd and which are deliberate in a way that he can just turn them on and off. We are all very much looking forward to the appt Thursday. I know it won't be a "one and done" thing but hopefully this process will start providing some insight for all involved. Thanks again!
In a tongue-in-cheek sarcastic way, I'd say the main differences between autism and OCD are funding, activism, and du-jour coolness. When Orion was saying that if he loses something, everything stops till he finds it - if a similar thing happened with OCD (like if your hair is touching your face and it drives you nuts and you absolutely can't move on till you've fixed it so it doesn't feel weird anymore), you'd be expected to work very hard on not being bothered by it. Like as someone with lifelong (well, at least from age 7), severe OCD, I have to go to Exposure and Response Prevention CBT to become like a "normal" person, working really hard at it. Does Orion have to go to classes to learn how to not be bothered that he's misplaced something? I feel like with OCD, it's seen as being within your control to fix, and your responsibility to fix, whereas because of all the advocating Autistic people (and their mothers) have done, people just say, "I'm autistic," and they get nods of understanding and extra time on tests. I'd like understanding of OCD, but I can't see anybody accepting us or appreciating us anytime soon.
There's a subtype of OCD called "Disgust OCD" (lots of OCDers have symptoms of this type along with symptoms of other subtypes, as I do). With that type, there are certain things that bother you and are completely unacceptable and unbearable to you, like slimy textures, the texture of dough in your mouth (that's one of my worst), the feeling of your hair not being perfectly pulled back and touching one ear, the feel of dry things (like sand dust left on your feet after being on a beach, or powdery things), the smell of vanilla or cigarette smoke, etc. This type of OCD i think is the closest to Autism, because there is no compensatory behaviour other than avoiding or getting away from the trigger. Like with classical OCD, if I get a sudden thought, hey, this house has flooring from the 1960s, when asbestos was widely used - what if this flooring IS asbestos, and what if when I moved that chair it caused asbestos dust to fly up from the flooring's seams by the wall, and I inhaled it? If I was having severe OCD at the time, i might have to throw out all the clothes I was wearing, shower, cut my hair off in case it got on it...none of which makes sense because if you've inhaled it, you've inhaled it, and no amount of showering is going to turn that around, and clothes could be washed instead of thrown out.
Also, with OCD, you might have "tendencies" as a baby or very young child, which my mum says I did, because I couldn't stand the feel of my socks as an infant and would cry and cry until I managed to kick them off, and then I'd be happy again. Later in childhood I still had a problem with socks - if the seams weren't straight it would send me into what autistic people seem to call a "meltdown" until it was fixed. But researchers think you probably need a "trigger" in the form of a virus or something else to develop full-on OCD. Whereas it seems that autistic people are born that way - aren't they? Also you can be born with autism so severe that you're delayed in learning to walk and speak and stuff like that, whereas there's no such thing as OCD that is so severe you don't meet developmental milestones, if you know what I mean? My next-door neighbour's kid has severe autism and can't function on his own. Like sometimes when he sits down (he's 18 now) he can't get up without his mum telling him where to put his feet and hands so he can stand up. That kind of thing doesn't happen with OCD.
Another major difference from an OCDer's point of view is that OCD people don't have a problem understanding social cues and stuff like that. I feel like the disorders arise from completely different places, but whatever causes them can affect behaviour in a similar way. Like you can have a rash that looks just like a rash someone else has, but one could be caused by an allergy and another by heat stroke.
After reading your comment, this might be a bit nitpicky but it feels important for me to say you cannot get a mental disorder from a virus that's not how that works. Mental illness is not a "disease" the way like COVID is a disease.
Edit: Also many autistic people are forced to go to ABA therapy as children to force them to be "normal" in ways that are often experienced as traumatic or even abusive. I think we live in cultures that tend to be pretty ableist across the board if you don't align with some completely made up and arbitrary "norm" so I don't know how useful it really is to talk about how "X group of people are treated better than Y group". It all falls under neurodivergence to me and personally I feel like that's what really matters. All of these diagnoses are made up anyway, which doesn't mean the experiences you have aren't real but just that these categories are sort of arbitrary, like at one point some doctors/psychiatrists just decided to call one thing "autism" and another thing "OCD" but like those are just convenient names for a set of observable behaviors.
Hi, there is some necessary behaviour modification in autism, it's just less common in milder cases. For me I was taught to tolerate wearing trousers, which is a lot like the disgust OCD you mentioned. I also have to force myself to drink water when it's gross + I have no real thirst cue
You also have to learn not to do certain behaviours, like if a stim is too harmful it should be redirected to a less harmful stim. Or if you eat non-food items like I used to, it is very important you stop, because otherwise you can die
I think it's just less known, because the people at the forefront of advocacy + information lean milder because that stuff is harder for those that are moderate or severe. Sometimes this is done using ABA techniques, which sometimes do more good than harm if done in a sensitive manner. Especially when stopping some behaviours or learning some skills can really be necessary
And maybe there should be some leniency for some aspects of OCD - therapy definitely needs to be more individualised imo, to accommodate for things like the disgust OCD that you've described as being intolerable
I feel OCD/OCD-like behavior rears it head in ASD due to sensory overload. It is a way to feel in control when one has little or no control of environmental stimulation.
This. 100% this for me.
Holy shit. I never thought about that. I never had intrusive thoughts whenever I was working from home and wasn't around other people. But now that I work in a grocery store and am surrounded by tons of different types of people at all times all day, the intrusive thoughts have been coming in a lot more frequently. Maybe I should find a job where I don't have to be around people again, but I've really liked not being lonely at work though
Fucking sucks cuz it's such a double edged sword cuz I feel like I'm finally happy in this job for once in my life. But the anxiety from all the people and sounds all the time are driving me insane
Amen seriously. I start cleaning and finding things I obsess over to do when I'm on sensory overload. Instead of socializing I end up cleaning and isolating lol
For me it's also a direct result of my fear of uncertainty+change.
I know I will inevitably struggle with change+uncertainty of any kind, so OCD developed to make me feel in control that way. Which it doesn't 😂
But sensory issues also do tend to trigger me into a ritual loop. Doing something over, and over, and over until it 'feels right'. Repeating an action or word until I've 'completed it'.
Also my need for routine. I know some autistic people say they hate routine but for me I can't function without my own specific routine. So if that gets messed up? Queue OCD.
Autism+OCD are linked, and I think its easier for us to end up having it because of how we are already neurologically predisposed.
I'm autistic, but I know I have OCD too which I feel I picked up as a way to cope with all of these autistic traits+stresses before I was diagnosed especially. As I learn about my own autism, I'm able to better manage the OCD symptoms too. But before I knew I was autistic...OCD stole months+almost years from me.
You can have both, as well as the trifecta of ASD, OCD and ADHD. All three involve executive dysfunction and all 3 can lead rise to similar problems.
However, in the case of OCD, it is important to remember that it is an anxiety disorder. If you're looking for something because you can't think of doing something else until it's found, that's not necessarily OCD, that could just be ASD fixation. But, if there's an anxiety component in that there's unrelated consequences that's going to point towards it being OCD related and not necessarily related to ASD or ADHD. Likewise, making sure to check to see that you have your keys before leaving could be ADHD or ASD related if it's something that happens from time to time, or even regularly, but if it's either never happened or only happened a few times, it's more likely to be OCD than the other two.
I've personally definitely got both OCD and ADHD and at absolute bare minimum a ton of strong ASD traits and it can be a bit of a challenge to figure out which condition is causing it, and if you choose wrong, you're probably not going to make decisions that improve the situation.
My son has Autism,ADD and OCD
My mom identifies as autistic and has a diagnosis of OCD. I was given the diagnosis of OCD as a teenager and got my autism diagnosis last year. So fascinating! Great video! I also really appreciate the visuals of your sources and literature as I'm terrible with auditory learning. ❤
Honestly this is the first time I've commented ever on TH-cam. I just wanted to say a big Thankyou for your videos. I'm a late bloomer like yourself. After my ASD and ARFID diagnosis AT 37 I'm trying so hard to navigate the mental health system and balance my life around how ASD effects me. Your videos have helped ALOT and I'm very much looking forward to more. Keep up the good work mate 👍👍👍
Thanks so much. That’s great to hear.
I too was diagnosed as an Aspie at age 37 back in 2008.
Yet OCD is much more accepted then autism.
For me, work is very important. I know how the quality is, and what is acceptable, or a reject item on the 3 items I have run the most in my almost 3 months of working there. If I am unsure, I will set it aside, and ask the quality check person as she goes around. The other day I came in, and there was a partial tote of product. I could not accept them and put them under my name, until I had checked them myself. Since I was packing, the product goes down under my credentials. I know the other shifts don't check the parts hardly at all, and I could not refrain from inspecting the 70 pieces of product. They then told me I was going to move to another line, and I still could not leave until I had checked the parts on the 1st task. I physically could not. It didn't matter if I was fired or not. I could not leave my name on there if I didn't check the parts. I don't know what that is, but if I would have been able to stop, it would have bothered me all day. My name on it means that I personally guarantee that these parts are good and ready to go. If I don't know that, then how can my name be on it? Conversely, even though it would bother me that the parts were fixable, but still bad, as long as my name was not attached to it I would have at least been able to stop myself. It would have been hard, but I could have done it. With them not allowing me to take my name off of it, I just couldn't. Long story short, I blamed OCD, saying I may have the disorder, and I was sorry, but I had to finish this task. I was allowed to finish it. Had I blamed autism, I'm not sure the outcome would have been the same.. which is sad.
Texas USA here. All that you share has allowed me to understand my much younger (plutonic) roommate. We are both much more relaxed now. Thank you!
I am autistic, not OCD. I stim to self-regulate and use a variety of fidgets to accomplish that. It depends on which ones I have on me and where I am. I have ones that are more discreet, my key ring bike chain one or my hacky sack. I also have ones I'm more likely to use at home or around family, my spinners or folding cube (it clicks as I fold and unfold it).
I can see how someone who is autistic could be diagnosed as OCD, between our intense, obsessive interests, our stimming, and rigidity of routine. I have a routine I follow every morning with dishing out my medications for the day, but I am not compelled to perform this routine at 7 am every day no matter how tired I am.
I am not the only member of my extended family who is autistic or otherwise non-neurotypical, but as far as I am aware, none of us are OCD.
I am late diagnosed PDA Autistic and ADHD last year at the age of 51. Thank you for your educational videos.
I'm still not diagnosed, but I'm both very into symmetry, but also very cluttered.
This was so very helpful. Thank you! I think I was misdiagnosed my entire life ❤❤
Yep, exactly my case. I was diagnosed with OCD and three years later diagnosed with ASD and OCD. Both were late diagnoses.
In general, my rituals tend to save me time. For instance, the non-ritualized showers that I used to take 20+ years ago were much longer than my ritualized showers. For one, the ritual cuts down on my think time and it's doing "deep thinking" while try to do something else that makes me take longer.
I am diagnosed with both OCD and ASD. I am afraid to leave my house without doing my ‘routine’ first, because I am worried that something will happen to my cats when I am away (so I check a lot of things before I leave)
I also use my ‘routine’ to encourage myself to leave the house and engage in social interactions. The outside world feels scary and overwhelming. I need the routine to give myself a ‘peptalk’ or something, so in that sense it’s stimming behavior I guess🤔
💯
TBH, I learned to just accept that the house might burn down if I forgot to turn off the stove or thieves might make off with all my stuff if I forgot to lock the door. I then make sure to really and thoroughly do both, going so far as to do it as slowly as possible to give my brain as much of a chance to register it being done as possible.
The alternative is often it just spiraling out of control.
You should see if you can interview The Aspie World. He has disclosed that he has an ASD and OCD diagnosis. I think it would be a great video. You have a talent for asking good questions.
Very kind of you. Thanks.
@@orionkelly Paige Layle has both too.
I'm a 30 year old guy and have OCD and I'm almost convinced I also have autism (not diagnosed though).
I have obsessive thoughts and "fears" that I can't get out of my head until I do a curtain ritual. But on the other hand, I also have obsessions I really enjoy. Also, I usually find myself stimming with the closet object I can reach, for non OCD reasons.
Remember, OCD obsessions are not enjoyable. They feed from fear and lead to compulsions that are also not enjoyable even when they give temporary relief to the distress. If you really like trains and obsess over them, or if you count to 10 to calm yourself down from a sensory overload, that's not OCD because the obsession is something you like and the compulsion doesn't come from an obsession. Hope that helps!
And also, compulsions can be mental. Body checking, ruminating, problem solving, just acknowledging the thought and giving in to think more about it are compulsions
So I have OCD because I have to for example clean my hands over and over until I feel like I don’t it enough but I don’t enjoy it
Thank you, sir! My son (20) has ASD and can be a handful, even at the age he is atm. A few years back I started noticing him exhibiting ritualistic behavior (example: my son would walk into his room and circle the area before shutting the door) as time wore on, other ritualistic behavior began popping up and really started to become concerning to me. When my son was much younger he did not exhibit any of this behavior. I started to believe he had or was developing OCD, even though my observations weren’t solid, having no experience with identifying it myself I gave it more time in an attempt to understand it more. After watching this video I’ve come to understand that my son’s ritualistic behavior is more autism related rather than OCD. Thank you for the knowledge, it has set me straighter 🤙
I’ve got a good example of a stim I use to help me calm down and a compulsion I preform when I’m really anxious or stressed. I keep pieces of satin ribbon in my pocket all time and when I need to regulate or calm down, I’ll rub one between my fingers over and over again. My compulsions seem to be more self-destructive. I have trichotillomania so my anxiety makes me pull out my beard hair one at a time
Another thing to pay attention to is whether it's increasing or not. Stims don't usually increase on their own. They increase when whatever it is that you're feeling does, and then typically go back to normal. OCD rituals have a tendency to be self-reinforcing, so more rituals frequently leads to more anxiety that leads to more rituals.
This is SO INTERESTING! I'm autistic and my boyfriend has OCD. Thank you!
And if you haven't both already been screened for ADHD, you probably should as both carry a significant incidence of ADHD. One of the reasons why I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD for so long was that it's only been relatively recently where having both ADHD and OCD was considered possible. ADHD hyperfocus can look a lot like OCD over focus. And OCD hoarding can look a lot like ADHD no idea what to get rid of. And there's plenty of other ways in which they can look similar, until you dig down and figure out what's driving the particular thing.
Wow I thought I was alone this video told me otherwise not only has this video calmed me down but the fact I’m not alone also I was always destroying myself mentally and I hated myself for so long but now I’ve seen this it has helped so thank you 🙏
The correct number of times to shake your milkshake (or anything else that needs to be shaken) is 16. The correct number of times to shake your hands out over the sink after washing them is 8. The correct number of sips to take from a bottle in any one go is 1, 2 or 4 or 8 (next would be 12 but that's only if you're really thirsty. Not sure if I've ever reached 16 (which would be next). Would probably pass out first). I think those are the only things I specifically count. Well, probably not but the only things I do regularly that I can remember at this very moment.
Great video and content. I always wondered what the differences between ASD and OCD were but never looked into it too much.
Thank you
Hello do I have ocd I have to for example wash my hands over and over until I feel like I don’t it enough but I don’t enjoy it
Scheduled for an ASD evaluation and currently have an OCD and a disputed diagnosis of OCPD. If I am found to be on the spectrum then I believe I would have a full picture of myself. I answered "I don’t know" or "Both" to all of your questions. The task question was particularly insightful because I have several examples of both types of 'hang ups'.
OCD + OCPD seems kind of odd. OCPD is more or less just a more extreme form of the "type A" personality from what I've read. Something that wouldn't likely possible to differentiate from OCD typically.
Thank you. There are definitely several ways that I seem to be autistic. But I'm also ocd about certain things.
Orion this is one of your best videos yet. Keep up the great work.
Thanks mate. But what if I can’t keep it up, what then huh!! Huh?!!! 😁
@@orionkelly then we'll understand that progress isn't linear :)
@@orionkelly each of your videos has it's own quality. I think there is no need to compare. Depends on who needs which information at what time. Got it? Huh? Huh!? 🙃
Great video. ❤
A friend of mine is collecting DVDs.
After telling her I swapped the places of DVDs, she had to open everyone of them.
-It wasn’t a nice joke, but that was OCD.
Tackling it in a playful manor might lower the sensitivity or compulsion over time.
The accompanying behaviours are the same as they both result from stress that originates from demands that exceed capacities. They are a way to control the world and decrease anxiety.
I know you already know about Claire from The Woodshed Theory, but some of your viewers might not know about her channel. She does some good videos being autistic and having a comorbidity of OCD.
Also The Aspie world. He has a few comorbidities, two of them being autistic and OCD.
Order and everything in its place. That's me. It can be distressing at times if things aren't just so. But I can be flexible in my order and routine.
Thanks for your video.
I love Woodshed theory!
What gets really fun is when you get more than just the two. I've definitely got ADHD and OCD and at absolute bare minimum, I've got significant ASD traits. And it gets kind of confusing as to which disorder is driving some of my thoughts and behaviors. And depending upon which one it is, there are a different set of coping strategies that seem to work best.
I always assumed my hatred of reaching into a sink full of dirty dishes without gloves on was an OCD cleanliness thing, but I've realized that the reaction comes pretty much immediately after the stuff is in there with water. Which means it's more likely and ASD type of reaction to the texture than an OCD reaction to the cleanliness as there's not anything really that different in the minute or two the dirty plates go from being touchable food plates to being untouchable dirty dishes. Plus, I'm not typically a germophobe in other areas, just this one.
OTOH, having the opposing conditions does tend to regulate the symptoms a bit as I can't just do the things the way one or the other condition demands without one or more of the other conditions getting upset with me.
The autism angle seems to relate more to object constancy and the ocd more to this fear of being bad and thus by acting out the fear in the environment , you can alleviate anxiety. Admittedly, I find the epistemology between both of these fascinating and highly confusing
I just found out I likely have morality related OCD and rumination compulsions so perfect timing lol
Great video
sometimes when im working on homework i just notice the lights and have to turn them off in order to continue
Much love 2 ur channel man😊
My 29 year old Asperger’s daughter, had a tumor in her bladder in 2019. After surgery she had an episode where she couldn’t urinate due to a blood clot. After that, she began to spend a lot of time on the toilet. Now she has a toilet schedule and ritual. I think she may be receptive to ideas to improve her situation.
I've had OCD all my life and was diagnosed very young. In my 40s I'm actually wondering if there might be autism as well.
Same
As an Aspie with once perfect memory (before I crashed mentally) I remembered almost every detail on things my brain decided was important and later in life I came to the conclusion that my perfect memory was because of a compulsion of being in control. The best thing in my life is when my brain broke and that partly disappeared, because remember every lie, every shrug, every promise not held and so on was extremely painful.
I still can't get bad memories out of my head but I actually don't care if I am in full control because I know everyone always lie and deceive so I try not to remember anything regarding other people.
It for sure was OCD (it was extreme in all details I stored in my head with almost fear of not remembering) but you could say I was cured by being abused by everyone.
I purposefully damaged as much of my memory as I could in order to keep the ASD presentation at bay. If I let myself take a walk in the mental archives I always return talking and acting like Rainman. (And yes, I'm aware that he's not autistic, he's a savant, it's unfortunate that "autistic savant" was the correct term for a period)
Do you have any discussions or videos about how parents can relate to an autistic adult child?
Everybody doesnt walk between sidewalk seams or walk on the seams in an even way..... just me as a kid. 😅
epicccc
Dude, I use that book every day to diagnose people and what you do is typical. You read great. You’re articulate well. So, what the heck is an obsession or a compulsion before you go explaining all that stuff just start with the basics like define terms.
What if the thing is just done and no reason to do it? I would constantly repeat numbers. Count syllables and make patterns. Then just repeat a certain set of numbers 24/7 unless I was sleeping lol…
A few weeks ago it changed to letter themes. I just take the first letter of each word I hear, read, or speak… and I line them up and search for patterns in the letters. I cannot stop it. But I don’t do it to decrease anxiety. I don’t have intrusive thoughts except for the actual letters themselves. I repeat and repeat continually. I am trying to find a way to quiet it and so far I’ve found that if I’m typing up words like I am now it actually does kinda slow it down a bit.
Any advice??
Omg I’m like sew Ocd
I should mention this ^ was a joke. I’m actually diagnosed.
@@ClaireCambridge 😆
I really want the spontaneity like NT people have, is there a way to achieve that? 🎉
My 7yo son has adhd and asd. Recently he has been exhibiting a lot of ocd behaviors that seem to have slowly built up over time. The problem is that his ocd behaviors all revolve around other people's participation in the way that he has to go back and say goodbye to people over and over again and he expects you to always respond in the way that makes him most comfortable. If he blows 2 kisses you have to blow 2 back bc 1 won't cut it. I've seen him melt down on more than one occasion bc he has said hi to someone in passing and they either don't hear him or they do something like wave instead of saying hi back. He has also missed his school bus a few times bc of having to go back into the house to say goodbye/iloveyou/blow kisses upwards of 8 - 10 times. I don't know that we would have that many issues if he exhibited his ocd behaviors in different ways that didn't directly involve the participation of others ...heck, we would be thrilled if he would just wash his hands instead of being completely obstinate about it! These are relatively new behaviors for all of us and we are not sure how to deal with them. They are all centered around him showing love and affection so we don't want to shut him down and make him feel that his love is not valid or "too much" but we don't want to feed into it either. There is no real source that we can find - no one has ever "left" him or shunned his love/affection, both parents are present and in the house as a family unit and he hasn't had any grandparents pass away. Any suggestions/advice is always appreciated. I know this is an older video and I hope my comment gets seen bc we could sure use some help.
Adult with ASD and OCD here. I would suggest seeking out a professional assessment, to help figure out if it's OCD at work. I know that autistic people, in particular, can have repetitive or ritualistic behaviours that feel right to them. So you want to parse out the difference. It could also have to do with separation anxiety as well.
If it's OCD, these compulsive behaviours you're describing will have an obsession behind it-a distressing thought, fear or even source of disgust that the behaviour is trying to mitigate. Try being curious and asking your son why he does it. Is he afraid of something bad happening? Does everything just feel wrong if he doesn't do it and he has to do it to feel complete? Is he trying to feel in control of something? Is he doubting that people actually love them and looking for reassurance?
And there doesn't have to be a real-life "source" for OCD content. The brain just throws whatever thoughts it likes at you, so obsessions can be magical or imaginative by nature. Someone could be afraid of causing a car accident if they don't open and close any door they use three times, for example. The obsession and compulsion could be completely logically unrelated, or unrealistic, but the brain latches on anyway.
@@pokelolmc6826 thank you so much for your well- worded and thoughtful reply! We actually have our first appointment with the only child neuropsychiatrist in our area next Thursday so hopefully that will be the beginning of working through some of this.
When we try to probe into causes or reasons why he does some of the things he does the conversation devolves quickly. We will ask a question and he will say "what did you say?" 4 or 5 times (I don't know if he is getting distracted due to the adhd or if he is choosing to not comprehend what we are asking) and then he just says "I don't know" but in a frustrated leave-me-alone way and doesn't want to talk about it anymore.
He is 8 and in 2nd grade. He has an IEP and gets As and Bs in school so he is not stupid by any means yet his maturity level seems to regress any time we try to talk to him about something that is not super interested in.
It's confusing and even his school is having trouble deciphering which times his proclivities and actions are driven by natural adhd/asd/ocd and which are deliberate in a way that he can just turn them on and off.
We are all very much looking forward to the appt Thursday. I know it won't be a "one and done" thing but hopefully this process will start providing some insight for all involved.
Thanks again!
@@pokelolmc6826 sorry for the super long response 😅 You are just the only person who replied after 2 months.
Are we supposed to just do life like others, with less social experiencing compared to NTs or am I just going through a funk❤
Hi
Hi I'm wondering if you can make a next video about Autism and Trauma please thank you
(If you make this video I will subscribe, and share)
ASD... that old chestnut 😅
Very hardhitting
Can I ask what your credentials are? E.g are a psychiatrist?