How to clean beehive frames with STEAM and heat. May not kill everything!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2020
- In this video, I take medium plastic pierco frames out of long term storage and give them a steam cleaning test.
We know that sustained temps above 120 f can kill nosema spores.
(REFERENCE) " nosema disease - naldc - USDAnaldc.nal.usda.gov › download › CAT87201459
Nosema ... spores readily are destroyed by moist heat (135° F for 10 min), live steam."
Steam has a temperature of 212 f, 100 centigrade
Steam cleaning is known to kill 99.9 percent of germs, bacteria and viruses.
Curious? Read more about steam and how it can be used here: www.achooallergy.com/blog/buy....
A minimum sanitizing temp must be 175 deg. f
Plastic frames may melt at greater than 400 degrees f or 255 Celsius
Bees Wax melts from 144-147 f, or 62-64 Celsius
In this video demonstration, I use my Wagner Steamer - Model 905 which is so old, it's no longer available.
Here is the link to the updated model: amzn.to/2M9CL5a
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases
Welcome and PLEASE take a moment to read the video description regarding temperature parameters. Thank you :)
Fred. I'm not sure how smart-phone savvy you are but the video descriptions don't show up on smart phones. That's strange but true..
As a kid, I spent a lot of my summer melting comb. My dad had a big tank built that would hold 250 combs at a time. I would fill the bottom of the tank with water. There was a rim about halfway up on the tank where I would place queen excluders then cover those with burlap bags. The combs would then go on top of that and then plywood cover over the top. I would build a fire under the whole thing and all the wax would get melted down as the fire heated the water to boiling. Once the fire went out I would pull all the wooden frames out and scoop all the slum gum out into a barrel. I would come back in the morning and remove all the wax that would be solidified on top of the water in the tank. Drain the tank, fill it back up and do it all over again. Commercial beekeeping is a LOT of work! I have a small steam cleaner that I use regularly to clean up all sorts of bee stuff. Yours seems to generate a lot more steam then mine. I did buy the cheapest one I could find on Amazon though, lol.
THAT sounds like a mess and something that all beekeepers must eventually deal with. Thank you for sharing your story :)
Like the idea I have a 20 gallon tamale cooker that I was going to use these way but using an electric water heater element like I do for beer brewing.
I bet you wish you had used the oscillating tool to remove that old, nasty comb, so much easier. I now call it my motorized hive tool. I hope to be making a video using steam to clean frames very soon, stay tuned. As always, great video and thanks for sharing it. God's peace brother.
Hi Jeff! Well, after watching your video recently, I wish I did just that! You gave a really good presentation as you removed all of that waxworm worked comb! :) and right back at you!
This is a very timely video. Thank you. I have been considering the Wagner wallpaper steamer and now have another option to consider. Thank you for all of your great videos.
Hi Fred... you are forever looking at beneficial time saving devices. Looked gr8. Cheers... hope the LL and new bees doing well.
Good video Fred !!! I would like to add something for your viewers if they use the stack box method make sure your boxes are screwed together. The steam will cause the boxes to warp and will pull staples out. Lesson I learned when I built mine.
wow, thanks for sharing that Jay! Important stuff!
Thanks Fred! I love when you get new toys to show us. 🌻
You're welcome Mary, old toy, new application :) I use it to clean out chicken brooders and to sanitize their drinkers etc... has always worked great on stubborn debris.
Wow I have a steam cleaner, thanks for the tip for future use.
As always, Great Info Mr. Dunn; I like product reviews.
I appreciate that!
Thanks Fred. Very helpful video.
Very welcome
I was considering one of these steam cleaners just for my inside floors, but if I might get another use out of it as a future beekeeping tool when I start my apiary, that's just a bonus in my book!
Fred, great video. For foundationless frames, should you cut out the comb every year? I was reading that you should change out your wax after a few brood cycles so that the bees replenish it. It appears you like frames with foundation, vs. foundationless frames, can you explain your preference?
I will mention this today :) no need to remove foundationless frames each year.
Very cool!
I was looking for a way to clean the plastic frames. Originally, I was going to rent a power washer from my local big box store, but I may switch to the steamer as it has multiple uses around the house. The brood bits that it left behind don't seem ideal, but those brown bits are tough to remove.
Definitely not perfect, but the best thing I've found so far :)
I would've never though of this! Any update on cleaning the flow frames with a steamer or the ultrasonic cleaner?
Yes... the steamer is the way to go with the flow frames. Ultrasonic cleaner makes a huge mess even when I lined it with plastic bags. This is my new and most favored cleaning method.
Hi Fred. Nice, informative video. Can you recommend a steamer and source?
This is a Wagner steamer... I would just read reviews Bert, this steamer is no longer available. The link to the new version of this one is in the video description.
Well, that was awesome timiing...I just dragged my steamer out to fight weeds, and now I have another use for it.
Hmmmm steamed weeds..... interesting...
I’m getting a new nuc soon and I was gifted old hive that looks similar to this I’m wondering if I should clean off it’s old comb or leave it for the newbies ? It is on a solid plastic foundation
Just speaking for myself here, I don't accept drawn comb from anyone else. New frames/foundation are very inexpensive.
@@FrederickDunn thank you very much! I’ve been debating what to do for about a week but leaning towards new frames. I’m really interested in the better comb. Your videos have been invaluable to me as I am getting started with my first hive. 🐝👊🏼
Any thoughts of using an ozone generator in an air tight container to kill foulbrood spores in the cells, as well as killing wax moth eggs.
I think the problem with that is that is may only work on surface material and wouldn't get IN to the material very well. Some people irridiate their entire pallette of bee boxes with frames inside... another commercial fix.
Mr. Dunn, I was looking in my hive this past weekend and noticed there was no queen. I didn't see any eggs, larva, or capped brood. There are bees in there, quite a few of them, so I bought a mated queen, checked to make sure she is accepted, and it looks good so far. I put the cage between 2 frames, and closed up the hive. I was told to leave the hive untouched for a few days. What do you recommend?
I will discuss this during today's FAQ
@@FrederickDunn Unfortunately, I was at work and missed your Q and A
Good stuff Fred.
The last steam generator I operated produced quite a lot of dry steam at 540degC at 16500kpa, 🤣🤣🤣.
Wow! My frames would have been reduced to puddles.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 and that's not including the coffee pot...
Yeah, used to produce about 10,000lbs/hr per MW from memory, but been retired for 20 years. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ha Mr Dunn this was great do u rewax the frames or do u let the bees do it thanks and have a great day
I let the bees do it... BUT, with the steamer... I may just lay clean wax bits on the foundation and melt it in with the heat :)
Also woks great for detailing your car!!
OOOhhhh.. ! Good one!
Hey Frederick, I want to order one of those!
Have you ever tried cleaning up a hive with bees in it? My hive has gotten really dirty on two sides and was wondering what was safe. I was thinking just water and dish soap, keeping the towel pretty dry. Any ideas?
If I wanted to clean a bee box, I'd move the bees into a new box by shifting all frames and then I'd clean up the box once the bees were removed.
@@FrederickDunn yes. Why didn’t I think of this. I’ll order a couple deeps. Thx
Can steam be used on Better Comb??? Or is it too fragile? If so how would you clean this type of comb?
It would melt the bettercomb right down.
What would happen if you dip it in boiling water? What is the heat resistance for that plastic?
I put the heat parameters in the video description. You can dip it in boiling water, but you will have lots of wax and debris remnants to deal with very soon. The wax and crud will form a layer on top of the water and you can take those chunks off when it cools.
Should I power wash the frames before I steam clean them?
If you have both, then that would be another step and it would help to get the heavy material out of the way with power washing.
Hi Fred. Just had another hive swarm this morning at 9.30, here in South Central PA. Maybe they were waiting until the Governor moved our county to "yellow", and they did not have to stay at home. I have had seven swarms this spring out of four hives. I caught and kept two but left the others go. No room. Live on a small lot close the village. The swarm landed just in front of the apiary, up in a maple about 15 ft off the ground. A large swarm. I have 6 boxes on that hive and had just given them another one on a week ago. Don't know how to keep them from swarming.
Hi Richard, this will probably be a let down of an answer... but if you've expanded the boxes, opened the landing board, provided cells for them to use for storage.. you've done your part and the can just swarm out anyway.
@@FrederickDunn Yes, but it is disheartening. I normally only keep 2-3 colonies do to the space. But now, this spring I have 6 hives. Way more than what I can handle. It would be great if I had more space. Just to stand under that swarm cluster and all you can do is look. Makes a body want to cry. Have a great weekend! Blessings!
You did this video 3 years ago. Do you still think steam cleaning is the best way to remove old wax from plastic frames. Also, is it worth trying to save and melt old black wax. I don’t seem to recover much useable wax from the old black wax frames. Thank you.
No, these days I power wash them, and crank up the power until it cuts through the wax without cutting into the plastic foundation. The steamer is just too time-consuming for me.
@@FrederickDunn one more question on this topic. Are you using cold water with your power wash or do you need hot water.?
@@ericshipplett3517 I lay out 150 feet of hose and let it get warmed by the sun. That delivers pretty hot water, but I find that cold water is also fine when blasting away wax.
Do you have a preferred hive tool?
The hive tool I want doesn't currently exist :) But I do like the flat tool with the J-hook on the end.
Great I use heat gun,, scraping first, as well I use , I scrap frame, put in pot of boiling water, use a heat gun reads 70, temperature, dip both ends of frames in water, leaves a layer of wax, wirer brush, removes any other bits, then that I miss,
Can I strong hive die from mites going threw winter
If mite loads are high going into winter, yes, a large healthy colony can be defeated through winter. It really comes down to mite numbers and how many bees are exposed to their many diseases.
Makes me wonder what dishwasher would do.
For starters, it would get me in huge trouble with my wife. Partly melted wax all over everything including drain plugging issues...
I feel like I must be missing something here, but why not throw the frames in the oven? That way you can melt and filter everything inside a temperature controlled environment so that the wax stays liquid (and sanitized) the whole way through.
Beeswax is flammable. I would worry about fire.
@@bettymann8077 That's where the temperature control part comes in. You can set your oven to a pedestrian 150℉ or so, which is already lower than the 212℉ that the steamamajigy is spewing. Besides, ovens are effectively fireproof by design, so they don't burn the house down every time someone forgot something in there on "Broil". If you're feeling especially paranoid, you can even put a pan of water in the oven to drive out all the air, making combustion inside impossible.
@HAst - Single man, are ya? Most wives would not approve - it's like melting down your beeswax in one of her pots....
Makes a huge mess, you'd need a dedicated oven with a collection pit of some sort.
Of course you'd need to sit the frames in a pan or collection funnel for direct contact with the wax, but I can't see how any part of the oven itself would need to touch the goop; AFAIK it wouldn't spatter unless heated above boiling.
I've found that the key to spousal approval is the old saw about returning things in at least as good a condition as you borrowed them, so if you can either not muck up or un-muck everything, that aspect shouldn't be insurmountable; if cleanup is done while the oven is at temperature, detergents can attack the liquid wax. I know I've got a few frames from my empty nuc lying around somewhere, so I'll have to give melting them down a go and report back at some point.
$1 worth foundation not one piece frame so much better. You can just replace it because you can’t clean it all the way as you see old cocoon still left at the bottom of cells. It’s like building a house on the pile of trash for bees. Too much time and energy.
Dishwasher hot cycle. Done
Hot wax issue is the plumbers problem. :) That's why I do this at a friends house.
Um, uh... nope... (';')
haha!@@FrederickDunn
Fred, I am a subscriber that has watched virtually every beekeeping video you have done (and even some of your chicken vids!), but I have a problem with this one. A lot of beekeepers (including myself) look to you for advice, but here you're telling people "How to sanitize" equipment from what can be a very problematic disease, and some of your info seems a bit incomplete. "We know that SUSTAINED TEMPS above 120 f can kill nosema spores." Heat disinfection is effective, but it is a function of temperature over time. Heating to 120F (49C) CAN kill nosema, if sustained for 24 HOURS! The job could be done in 20 minutes if you can heat the equipment to 140F (60C) for 20 minutes. There doesn't seem to be any data out there for higher temperatures outside of laboratory settings, where autoclaves are used (121C, 15psi for 20 min), but they're scientist doing research, and they need STERILE. But note: effective disinfection requires that the material not only be EXPOSED TO those temps, but HELD AT those temps consistently for the specified period of time. No offense to you or the Wagner company, but even at 212F, I don't think waving a steam wand back and forth over your equipment is really going to do the job, and that white wax film over everything is the proof: even at a melting temp of only 140 compared to the 212 of the steam, it cooled and solidified just as soon as the wand was moved away. This may be a handy way of cleaning up some nasty equipment, but please don't offer it as a means of eradicating a disease.
I mention the sustained temp reauirements in the video description. I also said that you have to move much slower for more effective cleaning and temperature concentrations. You're correct, there is a required dwell time for the 120 deg. F. Direct steam applications hit targeted zones at over 240 deg. F. I also shared, and I hope it wasn't ignored, that to know for sure would require pre-bacteria and virus load assessments, then steamed, and then post steam treated virus load assessments. I think this is a good way to melt wax, smooth the surfaces, and offer a thorough coating of base wax for re-use. I also mentioned that I would use these frames in swarm traps (where many use old worn out comb) or emergency expansion. "nosema spores readily are destroyed by moist heat (135° F for 10 min), live steam." ref -
nosema disease - naldc - USDAnaldc.nal.usda.gov › download › CAT87201459
Slower will be better.
Sorry you are disappointed. But thank you for being a faithful viewer.
@@FrederickDunn Nosema Ceranae has been establishing itself as a bigger threat than N. Apis. According to a study by the American Society for Microbiology, "Moreover, treatment for 2, 3, 4, and 6 h at 60°C did not reduce the viability of N. ceranae spores significantly." N. Ceranae is obviously much more heat tolerant, and although the steam comes out much hotter still, I would still hate to see someone that did have an infestation put their bees at risk. But maybe I'm a worrywart. I do appreciate your candor, and all you do for your fellow beeks!
@@arogue469 I think we need to do a sample of a frame with known spore loads and conduct a practical test. It's definitely worth looking into. I should have just left this as a cleaning rather than a "sanitizing" process. I always want to hear from people like you and want to be certain that we're putting out useful and accurate information. So thank you as always.
@@FrederickDunn That would be a worthwhile investigation. Would you test it against other diseases as well, or just focus on nosema?
Lol how much did you save my time is worth much more and I could have used the time better on my hives
Then steaming hive frames isn't for you. Time management is important, I get it.