Well Shogo-san, since you asked, I do have something that I would love to know more about Kyoto. For quite sometime now Ive been watching many, many videos of marching bands and it seems that Japan has lots of top class bands. But one in particular, the Kyoto Tachibana Senior High School has a reputation that spans the globe - no exaggeration. Maybe you might not be interested in such things as parades and music, but such things have no language barriers and as such their appeal have touch the hearts of countless numbers of fans all over the world. In particular the US that has a culture of high school bands and cheer leaders where their audience can be fiercely devoted. When the Tachibana band participated in the annual Rose Parade at Pasedena, California they left a lasting impression on their American audience. Now their videos are viewed many hundred thousands times, and there are hundreds of videos on TH-cam only of the Tachibana band. So, if you can do a reportage about the band, its tradition, its history and their usual public performances and the contests that they participated in. Make sure to title your video ‘Everything you want to know about the Tachibana SHS Band - with english narration’ and it will be highly popular.
I spent 4 days in Kyoto, in January 2019, and I found the people to be the friendliest of all the cities I visited. My only complaint was, since so many of the historical attractions are on the periphery of the city, getting around via public transit wasn't efficient. I am excited to go back, since there is still so much of the city I haven't explored.
Back when I was an exchange student in Hokkaido, we had this one Literature teacher that was unnecessarily mean and cynical towards students, often making snarky remarks to us foreign students when we made mistakes. My Japanese friends kept saying "He's probably from Kyoto", and I never got the reference till now.
@@MarrowMelly I thought I missheard it, but also, I was kinda embarrassed of asking someone to explain a joke, because everyone else seemed to understand it
I would make these types so mad because I know I'd just take everything they say at face value: Oh, tea, how lovely, thanks! *continues talking for hours*
@@missplainjane3905 1) Japan is far more advanced and developed than my home country, Malaysia. Now that I'm studying in the UK, I can compare the two. Some things, Japan is still much more advanced (ie. Transportation, Hygiene, Healthcare). Other things, UK is more advanced (ie. Minority protections, work-life balance, mental health awareness). But overall, yes, Japan is extremely developed and advanced. 2) To numerically rate is hard, because I might be nostalgic, but I would say it's a 9/10. The food is amazing, the culture is extremely unique and interesting, the technology is really cool, the standards of living are very high. The cons of Japan, which makes me unable to give 10/10 are; lack of mental health awareness, extremely long working and school hours, and a culture that discourages people from voicing out their true opinions (Japanese people tend to keep their thoughts to themselves) 3) Overall, Japanese people are just like any other people in the world. Their culture is unique and does make for certain tendencies, but it's not like they're completely different than the rest of the world. Their culture makes for very nice and friendly people, but sometimes you do feel like it is not genuine, or that it's cynical, but you never really know, because they very rarely voice out what they feel. I've never heard a Japanese student outright insult a teacher no matter how bad they are, but here in the UK, people are much more open to voicing out and receiving criticisms, so there's students complaining about teachers at any given opportunity. 4)3 words, that's gonna be tough. Maybe; Beautiful, Unique, Friendly?
Fun thing is: in Italy when you want someone to stay you offer him something to drink (coffee or limoncello depeding on the time). To answer "thanks I'm good" and leave, would be seen as rather rude and inconsiderate.
yeah, same in my family, turning down food that is offered is saying that you think the host is poor and the food would be bad. that would definitely be considered an insult. you take the food, eat it there(unless they specifically packaged the food for you, Slovak grandmas do that with cookies), and compliment the server.
As a Greek, If I hadnt seen that video and went to Kyoto, I would be super confused if they offered me something to drink. I would accept and even though I would want to leave at some point, I would stay just so I wouldnt be rude. But not to worry.. I wouldnt go to Japan anyway because in another video I learned that people with some more weight get strange looks there and pokes on their belly. The things you learn on the internet!
Here in Italy it's literally the opposite, if they offer you something to drink it means they want you to stay longer, and if you decline it sounds kinda rude since youre refusing hospitality
I’m from the Southern US and can relate to the “Kyoto language.” It’s often meant to be kind / polite but can also be used passive-aggressively or to achieve an unstated outcome. For example, if a Southerner says, “Bless your heart,” it can mean: “I’m so sorry you’re going through a difficult time! I feel strong sympathy for you and hope you feel better,” OR “I feel so sorry for you because you’re too stupid to live long.”
@Marx Regan Xi Luther I love Chicago and have really liked all the midwesterners I’ve met / made friends with! They are so kind and polite and also seem genuine. I also know my Chicago friends take zero nonsense, which I admire
The Kyoto Language is only a kindness when spoken to other people from Kyoto who understand "The Rules". It's kind of like the 70's-80's period of when US and Japanese companies started working together. It was understood in Japan, if a superior told you to do something, and you replied "That will be very difficult", it was a way of telling them "No" without having to tell them no. Because you indicated it would possibly not happen, your superior was expected to accept it wouldn't, sparing you the dishonor of failure, and sparing your superior the embarrassment of having an underling defy them. To an American, that would mean yes, but it will take a lot of effort. So when an American and Japanese company would be negotiating, if they made a demand, the Japanese team would say that is very difficult and assume the matter was put to rest, and the Americans would assume that meant they were putting extra effort in to make it happen.
The mindset of Americans is "think positive and everything is possible". If you said there's a slight chance to make it happen, then there's a way, just put more effort in it.
Yeah I think every language speaks in a way where sometimes it is direct and sometimes it requires interpretation. The difference in how you are going to interpret a phrase is generally cultural. So like the business example to understanding "it will be difficult" is a perfect example. Both in the US and in Japan, that phrase is not directly indicating that it will or will not be done, but how it is interpreted and for what purpose is entirely culturally difficult. It seems like the kyoto examples are just the same thing, but they are possibly used in areas where even in japan they normally speak directly, or excessively vague to the point the interpretation is not immediately apparent to the rest of japan specifically due to the microculture of kyoto.
I finally understand why, when I was speaking with a Japanese person and expressed interest in visiting Kyoto, they told me to go anywhere else in Japan because "the people there are hard to understand." and they explicitly said it wasn't about the dialect but they didn't know how (or maybe didn't want) to explain the reason why.
@@FatesxofxthexDead They also didn't want to be honest or backup their statements with anything real other than their own bias. So as to protect their own image they decided not to be 'rude'.
I remember on the first day arriving in Kyoto I was shocked by the very gruff voices of the polite bus drivers but at the same time amused by how different Kyoto was compared to the rest of Japan. It has a certain quality to it that you don't see anywhere else and I could see why they were a bit conservative about protecting and looking after their city.
As a person who lives in Kyoto for 2.5 years. I can say it's 100% correct, not exaggerated even once. Their passive-aggresiveness is making me so angry sometimes.
@@taylantnt6367 I’m not Japanese, and I guessed them correctly as well. Basically reverse the sentences in a negative and you get the meaning. Your kid is “too energetic”. I don’t have any more tea for you. The watch are a bit more complicated, but it was obvious they want to remind you of the time when they point out your watch.
In Germany, you would say that in a direct and polite way. I think it is much better to be honest than being "fake" polite. Being polite or friendly can be shown by many different ways.
As a Japanese person, I like watching the fight between Osaka and Kyoto people. Kyoto people who want the person to go home early vs. Osaka people who want to drink tea (The interesting thing about this is that Osaka people often understand the irony of Kyoto people.)
but with 'common' passive aggressive people is that we can tell they're being like that. while in japan (at least from some video i've watched), it will sound genuine/not layered loo, cmiiw
''your dress is so beautiful'' ''thank youuu~~ it was on sale, last one on the rack, 50% off--'' ''i'm from kyoto'' ''okayyy.... i'll take it off and burn it now''
I've been in Kyoto for a while and had never issues "as a foreigner". My wife who is a local told me about how much hypocritical are some japanese, and put it under that "we do not want to cause trouble so we'll say that way" culture. I do respect japanese culture and cultural differences between every country but i'll step out whenever there is a distinct lack of respect. We have one kid with my wife and her grandmother took care of our kid one day so we could chill out and eat outside. We met some old people who knew my wife at a restaurant (small city, everyone knows each other). My wife explained that thanks to her grandmother, she could relax a bit. The answer from the old hag was something like "oooh that is good that you can relax outside without your kid huh" but the meaning was "how dare you allow yourself some rest while you are a young mom? My generation, we always struggle and took care of the baby... We do not have "time" to relax when we are mothers. My wife felt uncomfortable as i could also understand the "secret meaning". I replied straight away : "yeah, too bad your generation had so much problems right? That is nice that today's generation is able to have soooo much comfort with technology and help. We are sooo lucky compared to you. I feel sorry that you could not enjoy such quality time in your younger days!" The old hag and her friend drop their jaws and left embarassed, mumbling things like "godamn foreigner who has not respect for old people etc." I never said anything that could be pointed as rude. I just played by her rules 😅. My wife scolded me a bit but still laughed at the situation and we could enjoy dinner after😎
Same, I would not pass the tea test... In Iran tea is something you are offered constantly. You usually should turn it down 2 to 3 time and then accept it happily. No idea why, and it's pretty old school so not sure many people do that now..
@@sunday-tea9853 I guess that custom is shared? There was a Turkish man on vacation that visited my church and I gave him a ride back to his Air BNB. He invited me in and offered some tea, and I had recalled that there was a custom where one was supposed to refuse before accepting the tea (though, I wasn't sure if that was a general Middle Eastern thing, or just for some specific countries). I did refuse at first though, and then accepted, and his family seemed to open up and be very polite afterward.
As a Russian, we MUST decline the offer, if we accept the offer of food or drinks, it means that we are "not full and are always hungry", which means that our parents have failed us.
If it's a stranger like you know 5 minutes ago and invite you to their house and offer you of the tea, i probably politely decline that, and who knows...who knows , if you catch my drift
As a Brit, I hope someone has explained to the lovely people of Kyoto that they should never try the tea trick on a Brit: Brit: *is thinking of leaving* Kyoto person: "Would you like some tea?" Brit: *is now compelled to stay* "That'd be lovely, thank you."
Ohhhh as a Dutch person I am in so much trouble if I ever get stranded in Kyoto :') Our language is the exact opposite, always to the point and rarely behind ones back. As a result I'll likely just take you up on that offer for some tea and thank you for complimenting my watch and probably tell you where I got it so you may have a look at their other stuff one day since you like it so much :') Both completely valid ways to communicate depending on how you were raised, but the two opposites collide rather than attract in this case :p
Yes I agree. It'll collide rather than attract. I would go mad, having to live in an environment like this. To me it just sounds dishonest and inefficient
As an autistic Dutch person, this is even more true. Even in a direct culture it's hard enough to navigate, I can't even see how I would survive in indirect cultures like in Kyoto.
@@Shaylok It's not that different in some ways to many other countries, where the people of the capital city/region feel a sense of superiority (London in the UK, Paris in France etc), the only slight difference being that Kyoto isn't actually the capital any more, it seems they've just held on to the attitudes
After living for a year in Kyoto, these were my experiences as well. Especially my non-Kyoto-born Japanese friends were complaining a lot how rudely they were often treated as an inferior there, and that many didn't like it there for that reason. Having lived in several places in Japan, I wouldn't recommend Kyoto to anyone as a place to live. It is nice place to visit, but compared to any other Japanese city, it felt really cold and cynical
Vähän niinkuin Turusta, Raumasta, Porista tai Pohjanmaasta kerrottaisiin muunsuomalaisille. Raumalla oli mukavaa, työkavereiden kanssa tutustui hyvin ja motoristikavereiden kanssa tuli hyvin juttuun.
i love places like that i would fit in i like my privacy my family's enough for me i can learn the rest of the culture by going anywhere else in japan witch are a very generous and beautiful cultured people
"Care for a drink?" being spoken as "Please leave" is definitely unique, mayhaps to Kyoto lingo. For certain, in my homeland, being offered a drink is never a cue for a guest to leave, just the opposite; it's usually when a drink is not offered but a small parcel of bread instead that is usually a cue for the guest to depart, only if the guest appears to be able to ambulate. Might sound weird, but if a guest ends up inebriated and completely incapacitated by inebriation, the guest is provided the means to sleep it off. 🤷♀
I am a Tokyo person hence it may be better to wait for a Kyoto person to correct me, but if my impression is correct, this example has to be understood with non-verbal contexts. The meaning delicately changes depending on the contexts, the concept known as pragmatics in linguistics. Imagine that you are in a host's house and have enjoyed some afternoon tea already and it's getting a bit later in the evening. Suppose a host only verbally asks you WITHOUT PHYSICAL PREPARATION whether you would like another cup, then I feel you are advised to leave. Possibly even in Tokyo. Thus, this way of indirect verbal communication functions as intelligence and local code knowledge screening tests. Since you cannot completely represent social or physical phenomenon verbally, you expect the minimal knowledge and guessing ability of others by testing them via indirect language usage. (I made similar responses to other comments in this video as well)
In some other cultures it's worse, it can sometimes literally mean "I really want to kill you", and then, you are mysteriously never heard from again after the first sip. 😅
It means that because they feel you’ve gotten so comfortable that you might need to be offered refreshment. Also, making a tea takes time and effort at least in the Japanese culture. Most people don’t want to put others through the trouble.
I have never been around people like that....that I know of. I'm so straight forward that I thank them, hug them, and smile. Just now I'm remembering a couple confused and irritated looks - as if their insults didn't quite have the effect they wanted. Bwhahahahaha! Being 'real' wins!
@@terrijuanette486in my country it usually use by people that working in bureaucracy even public school teacher or informal bureaucracy like comunity leader.
“Would you like some tea?” “Oh, no thank you, I better head out” “No I mean would you like some tea? I have matcha and milk tea” “Please excuse me. I understand. I’ll leave now”
Hahahahaha In my province, it is said that a guest should accept the tea that the host gave. If the guest didn't drink the tea, then the guest would be labeled as rude by the host.
@@_laifishardisntit_1379 Well, if you are drinking the tea at least you can't talk as much at the same time. The danger is if you have refreshed your babbling guest. haha
The key is if they offer you tea *after a while*. The polite thing to do if they actually want to give you tea is to offer first thing when you arrive.
As someone from southern USA I totally get what Shogo means by the "Kyoto Language". Phrases like, "Bless your heart" or "Well I shouldn't keep you" all have that secondary underlying meaning that is understood while still coming across as polite.
@Helion Prime On the surface, it is a very polite thing to say when giving comfort. For instance, "Oh no! You fell and scrapped your knee? Bless your heart, I'm sure that stings. Let me get you a band aid." The flip side to that, and the way it tends to be used is with implied sarcasm. It can often be used in place of "you dumbass" or something rude like that. For instance, "So you forgot to fill up the gas tank in the car after I reminded you three times and now you're stuck on the side of the road? Bless your heart." People born and raised around this phrase know how to use it with proper subtlety so it will sound like they are being nice. Conversely, people born and raised around this phrase know that it is rarely used sincerely. (As a note, the examples I've given above are not subtle in the slightest.)
It's just like offfering a tea of coffe hhere. We are basically asking the person to stay a little longer. For a friend we offer some beer or a juice, and then we kinda know that the host really like us.
Dude, that tea thing would backfire so hard with us Italians. I am not even joking, once a group of us basically barged in the house of a friend after a hard 3 day mountaineering trip for a quick hello, and ate EVERYTHING. Some of us even took meat out of the refrigerator and cooked stew for like two hours. Another time a close group of young friends stayed with a British family and dined together. Again, they just wiped the table, thinking there would have been more to eat, the British were horrified.
The only thing I really found surprising in this video was that Kyoto was disliked by the rest of Japan for this indirect/two-faced communication style. The majority of the world outside of Japan essentially thinks that what you described as Kyoto culture is just Japanese culture overall. So does that mean some parts of Japan, by inference, would have a more "Western" style of communication, that is they are less concerned with avoiding conflict and more willing to tell it like it is? If they don't like the way Kyoto is, it sounds like there must be at least one place in Japan that is almost the opposite.
Firstly, being "direct and open" is not uniquely Western. The Japanese have their own way of coming off as direct and open. Most young people are direct and to the point, but they just make sure that they make their point or statement in a polite non-confrontational way. That doesn't mean they're indirect, it's just their way of being direct.
Yeah, to a Brit, this would be an open invitation to be even more of a "presence" in the house. This would openly backfire on anybody from Kyoto who was trying to be politely rude to their guests.
The "Your child is so energetic" is something i could imagine posh English women saying to each other in a passive aggressive tone. The tea one wouldn't have worked on me though, even if i wanted to leave i would have said yes because its polite. Also i'm British and there is tea involved.
Context is key, for example some salesperson is at your place, you're at the table for some time and then you want to end the discussion so you kind of half stand-up and look slightly nervous and you say "oh but oh my, maybe i should at least boil some water or something... make some tea..." and the person will get the clue: it's taking too long, we're not that close, i'm bored, sayonara. I have lived in Japan for 6 years and I don't think this is that explicitely japanese to be honest... i've seen people in every country do that. Japanese just maybe more, and it's kind of expected culturally so people are better at reading the cues and 'following' them? but it's just basic diplomacy honestly.
@@siuaiseo if someone offered me tea I'd find it rude to decline. Then I'd stay around longer because now I have tea to drink. See how that can be interpreted in different ways?
@@rbkskillz is the same in Chile since we have a fourth meal before dinner or straight up replace dinner with "la once" were you drink tea, so if someone asks if you want tea at noon, it means they're inviting you to "tomar once" which pretty much means you're having dinner with us
I was in Kyoto for only 5 days but my experience was amazing. I met you Shogo & master Kawata at Samurai Juku. Both of you we're kind enough to adapt a special Iaido class for my benefit. I keep a very special memory of this. Also at Tozando where I bought my Hakama & other martial art equipment. I had a warm conversation with the store manager. Perhaps it is different if you are Japanese & from another prefecture. I find the Japanese people in general to be extremely polite & a bit distant but if a foreigner shows respect, is very polite & shows interest... I found the Japanese to be warm & very helpful even in Kyoto.
As someone from Tokyo, Kyoto is literally the city of passive aggressiveness at its finest and I can’t deal with the people in Kyoto I can’t ever imagine myself live there
Sounds like Tokyo would be a must for Finns to visit and Kyoto a place to avoid. Especially for me, since I have a hard time understanding subtle hints
IT can go both ways. I had a Friend who took Iado classes, with a Japanese Expat Master, who was originally from Kyoto. When they had passed their exams, the Master thought it was time for the students to compete in Japan. The event was in Kyoto, and the students were welcomed warmly. It was the rich kid students from Tokyo who were dismissive, and cold. Well Tokyo took the top twp spots in the event, but one of the Americans took 3rd, and the Kyoto team took it as a victory, because it was their master's work.
No, because unlike in British style of sarcasm which is actually spoken with sarcastic intent (humorous roundabout to convey a meaning), most Asians who speak like described in this video is simply passive-aggressive (too scared or too proud to speak directly, hence they have to resort to a roundabout). In other words, sarcasm is intended to be funny, while passive-aggressiveness is not.
Passive-aggressive is a global language-- my mother who was ethnically Ukrainian and from Canada did those kinds of phrases all the time. It's interesting that a group could all really agree to that level of passive-aggressive; it does imply a group that is very tight-knit.
"Do you want some tea?" ... "You know. Just two minutes ago i was thinking about going, but now that you are offering tea i think i will stay a while longer."
I'd just be sitting on their couch drinking my 5th cup of tea at 1AM. "You Kyoto folk are so kind and accommodating!" "I don't even have a watch, oh these clothes came from the thrift shop but thanks a bunch, my face? nobodies ever admired me so openly." I was there for Gion Matsuri a few years back, that was a neat experience. I'm glad that I didn't realize they hated me until now ;).
Some random japanese woman said this to me in the airport and I didn't have a watch. She was next in line and I was talking to a guide because my flight was delayed. I responded instinctively by saying "Did you lose your glasses?" in a complete deadpan. I think two people died laughing in the adjacent line as the woman stormed out. I saw her passing me again in the line that laughed at her because apparently it was her flight that was boarding. Well now I know.
I have travelled the world and I am pretty sure that Kyoto is the single most beautiful place I've ever seen. And I mean that. Beautiful, spotless, and the best food. Before I die I'd like to see it again in the fall. Thanks so much for this wonderful channel.
I'm sorry Shogo-san. I have to humbly disagree with you even though you have been perfectly correct in everything you have said. I am a poor human for saying this........but, the real reason that all of Japan hate Kyoto is because of the one thing that you have, and it is the very best in all of the world - The Tachibana Senior High School band
Yesss they are so amazing! Before COVID my band teacher showed us a clip of them to motivate us and I was like omg I can recognize those orange uniforms anywhereee
And you guys have left some of this colonial heritage back here in India. We go as far as asking for tea, 'ektu cha hobey naki?' (in Bengali; will there be some tea?)
Southerners, too. You have to offer something, even cold water for the honor of the house. If you go in warm weather in the country, they make you take a bag of squash or beans or tomatoes, if they like you. In winter, something home canned.
I've watch a video before with title "How Kyoto has become quiet and less tourists because of the covid-19 pandemic" In the comment section I saw an interesting comment related to this video. This person said theres an old lady greeting him in front of her house then offering him a tea and he is happily said that this old woman is a kind person. After watching this video I kinda feel sorry for that guy. She actually wants him to leave then 😂. That tea part and two faced factor of the kyoto people in this video makes me uneasy...
About the "do you want some tea?" one we here in the Netherlands also have something similar but only about the evening. If as a kid you invited somebody over to play and it is getting late the parents will say "we are about to have dinner". This means: "go home". It mainly comes from us planning our meals for a certain amount of people so you have to ask beforehand if you can stay for dinner or have to be invited to stay. This also means that the food your parents made you at home won't be wasted by you suddenly eating at a friend's house. As an adult it is a lot more direct and you generally play to stay only for a certain time.
After watching this, I'd like to hear more about Osaka which while it isn't super far from Kyoto seems to be quite a contrast with a reputation of being one of the most casual and honne places in Japan. Was the development of that kind of culture almost like a rebellion to the strict culture in Kyoto I wonder?
Mercantile cities etc. tend to be a lot more accomodating, and also a lot less inundated by cryptic culture, because they are usually cosmopolitan, meaning they are rarely strictly monocultured, as they have to be able to trade across cultural borders, can't do that when half the conversation is misunderstood by the other person. Likewise, mercantile cultures don't tend to be "nice" per se, they tend to be very blunt and direct, which some find rude.
I keep imagining a European and a Kyoto resident locked in an infinite battle where one party offers tea to get rid of the other, but the other can not leave because tea is offered and must be drunk.
@@yangyin8492 UK is not representing Europe as a whole. They even got out of it officially. The majority of Europe drinks coffee and get's it when it is time to go home.
my personal takes here as a Philippines resident in Metro Manila, those that live in scoially rich cities can give off that vibe too. Not all of them, but a fair amount of them.
"Would you like some tea?" "Oh, I was actually just about to leave but since you're offering me a drink, it would be rude of me to decline." *goes to the kitchen and commit seppuku*
My Kyoto host: You are so energetic. Me: Thanks I try to be positive! MKH: Thats a great watch Me: Gift from my wife, she's the best! MKH: You have great clothes. Me: You know, I was worried this didn't match! Thank you! MKH: Would you like some tea? Me: ☺*these Japanese folks are the most encouraging and hospitable people ever!* MKH: 😡* Why is this !$@#% American still here?!?*
3:04 honestly as a british person that part didn't sound that wierd, we often have a very similar culture of not saying what you mean. it's very frustrating for people like me who tend to take things literally.
In my culture, if I get offered a cup of tea it means: I love having you here stay longer. And it would sorta be in bad manners to say no. This was all very interesting
Same here in the Philippines ..if there's a guest we always offer them foods and beverages as a sign of respect and to make them comfortable ...I never knew that this things has a bad meaning on kyoto such as the tea part where literally means to "get out now"
Same in India , my country , we have to receive any guests with tea and snacks but also in my state it is not viewed rude to reject it , I don't like tea so I always rejects it politely.. 😆
You definitely are not lying. My ex gf is from Kyoto, and she was complicated most of the time, and hid her true feelings. When we broke up, I told one of my good female Japanese friends, and she even said Kyoto women are some of the most complicated women in Japan lol
Honestly the Kyoto language section reminds me of us British. And the impression people have of us as polite... until you spend any time dealing with us. And from experience how the southern US and northern England are similar in that regard
@@LetsaskShogo - this is like why Americans don't like New Yorkers. They think they're better than everyone else. But instead of being two faced they are very rude and combative.
Konnichiwa, Shogo. I’ve just discovered your channel. I’ve been in love with Japan for 49 years now (I’m 60) and I want to thank you for the nice and so interesting things you are telling us. Arigato gosaimas. I also want to congratulate you for your english, wich is very clear and understandable, very « Oxford-ish », as I like to practice myself. Forgive me if I do not write properly these few japanese words I know. François, from Belgium.
The passive-aggressive Kyoto remind me of how "polite conversation" used to work here in England - Compliment people on their failures to make them reflect on it.
The whole two faced, mentality honestly would drive me crazy i live in australia where it is considered kind to tell the truth (in a kind way ofc) because people who are unable to come to terms with the truth are considered weak willed and typically looked at in a negative way due to their inabilities to come to terms with the fact that life is hard
“Life is hard”: if people could get that through their thick skulls, I think politics across the globe would be a LOT healthier. Instead we throw money at everything, as if it were the only human problem, and hadn’t been tried already.
@@vetiarvind yes, as an American, I always think first and choose words wisely before I insult someone, just so they know the right level of offense to be taken
@@vetiarvind Lol yeah. Everytime I talk to Australians I get shocked at how blunt they are. But its a lovely trait in my opinion. I take bluntness over two faced liars
Oh god, i would die in Kyoto then. In India we don't have filters, what's in our head is on our mouths. We are very very direct and blunt and we like it this way. No mental gymnastics involved.
I think Indian culture is very complex. There are Indians in the Philippines and my parents are friends with a couple for more than 20 years now. They are good people and I even get to tutor some of the kids in their community when I was a collage student. An Indian man courted me and he was really open with his interest. The problem is, I'm not ready for any relationship at that time and he was pretty aggresive. He seems like a great guy but he believes in polygamy and I'm just not into that so I rejected him... but he kept coming to our house. Thanks to my parent's Indian friends, he eventually gave up and they told me that I shouldn't be friendly or smile too much if I meet an Indian who is looking for a wife. I was confused because I didnt even knew the guy till he talked to me for a few minutes then he started visiting me at work, but I followed their advice.
My father, as a very young sergeant, was among the very first occupation troops in Japan. He arrived just a couple of days after the formal surrender and was in Hiroshima just weeks after the bomb. For two years, from early 1946 through early 1948, he was mostly stationed in Kyoto. He was already familiar with Japanese Americans through growing up in a part of LA where they were common, though he initally spoke no Japanese and only learned a rudimentary form of it while stationed there. He enjoyed Kyoto and its history very much. He also got along very well with the locals despite their initial fear. We grew up as children hearing about the beauty and glories of Kyoto, including having pictures of various sites about the house. My relatives and friend's families, like most Japanese Americans, trace their roots to Kyushu, mainly Hiroshima Prefecture and neighboring areas, so growing up with a fondness for Kyoto was a little unusual. Thanks for the explanations, which I was unaware of.
I love videos about Kyoto. Here in Vienna, we have some imperial language behaviors, too. Older people would say quite similar things for similar purpose! This is a city, where an emperor once had a say. It might be typical in many post-feudal countries.
Can remember seeing Christoph Waltz comparing Austria or Ireland in this respect. "Everybody is very nice and nobody means it". It's unfortunately true. In Dublin in particular, people don't say what they mean and it gets really annoying when you aren't from Dublin and don't know when they're being 2 faced.
Hahaha my friends from Tokyo always say Kyoto people are arrogant - but you’re a nice person! 🥰 No seriously, Kyoto is my least favourite place in Japan. People are indeed arrogant and they look down on those with a “non-Japanese face”. I study Japanese and I always want to interact with people, talk to them even though it’s maybe baby talk and just feel like I’m welcome. I can’t live in Japan permanently so I visit at least once a year for a long time. But people in Kyoto are the worst - they don’t talk to you, don’t look at you or even yell at you. Kyoto has a double culture I think, there’s the glittery facade of tourist traps and Geisha dinner parties and as long as foreigners engage in those activities and buy overpriced trash it’s ok. But if someone makes and effort, tries to speak Japanese and is really interested in everyday or “deeper” stuff people shut down and chase you away. Worst experience I had was in a kamidana store. I really wanted to buy a big one for my garden and some supplies for the small one in my home but the store owner chased me out and said I wasn’t allowed to look. Why?! I don’t know 🤷♀️ But to be fair, if my city was flooded with ignorant tourists every year who don’t respect shrine rules, people’s privacy and Geiko, litter and block the way of ordinary workers every day I’d probably also be hostile. So for some reason I understand why they hate foreigners so much but on the other hand I hope they’d look twice and be more friendly to a person who is genuinely interested in Japanese culture.
I did a Workaway in Kyoto for 6 weeks and had a completely different experience. people (especially old couples) were very talkative and polite and i also got a lot of credit for my effort to speak Japanese , i witnessed this passive talk and often had the feeling that people dont say what they really mean (to strangers) but i didnt think it was a a behaviour restricted to Kyoto. In the end i guess it just depends on the people you meet during your specific trip.
That's actually a really clever & diplomatic way of communicating in volatile situations, I can only imagine the tense, stressful & complicated conditions such a culture developed & flourished under
Them: your kid is so energetic You: i know, you like that? Wanna play with him? 😂 Them: you have a nice watch. You: well thanks,... And then start a long story involving that watch😂 Them: would you like some tea? You: yes please. I have heard you make the best tea😂
Amazing to understand this controversy about Kyoto. I knew a Japanese woman who also mentioned something about Kyoto being a strict part of Japan. Now I understand.
My husbands family have lived in Uji, Kyoto for many generations and have never acted like this towards me. Most welcoming and truly nice people I’ve ever met. And my husband is the most straight forward person I’ve ever met. But I can see how Kyoto people feel a little bit of hierarchy over other people but not that much.
"people in Kyoto hide their feelings and never say what they really mean to say" Me : "wait.. arent ALL japanese people like that ??" "Would you like some tea means plz leave now" Me : "oooh!.. its up to THAT level !" (EDIT) side-note : WAW! *314* likes in ONE WEEK ?!.. thats almost half how many likes Shogo himself got on his comment in *8 MONTHS* !! YOU, guys, deserve 314 likes EACH in return ! Doomo thank you gozaimasu ! 🥰👍
I love your open mindedness and willingness to understand other people and share your insights. You seem like a very kind and generous person. Thank you for your videos.
I actually didn't do too bad on the "Kyoto language" quiz, but then I do live in England 🤣 another old culture developing a passive aggressive or otherwise roundabout way of telling you to piss off.
I like how you show not only show the negative aspects of a behavior, but also how it probably evolved in that society for a practical or even "kind" reason. I'd love to brush up on my Japanese and visit Kyoto again 😊
I was lucky enough to spend a year studying in Kyoto; wonderful experience. I loved cycling around finding new places. Many people say Japanese in general are two faced but I think that is just how they have to behave to fit in at work. You can meet real people if you stop by your local stand bar.
Another common hidden message when speaking to Japanese people is when they say “sugoi” すごい to you if you do some kind of trick or talent - or even speak a little Japanese. If it’s excessive, then they are pretty much humoring you at that point.
In Poland when someone offers you a tea it's also sign to go home (it is the final part of traditional diner also) of course in Poland you first drink that tea that was offered and then leave. It is an old tradition not a lot of people do that now, but I think it is polite way of communicating that you have enough of socializing for day. We also say that something could happened "po herbacie" Which means after the tea and it means that it is to late to change what already was done.
There is a city in Maharashtra, India named Pune which has the same reputation among other cities in the state. Fun fact: to celebrate Indian-Japanese diplomatic relations, a garden has been built in Pune inspired by the Koraku en in Okayama. It's called the Pune-Okayama friendship garden
Sounds like I belong in south Japan. I'd be thinking "That's nice they're enjoying my company and want me to stay" YES I'd love a cup of tea, thank you!
Huh. It is very different from where I live. In Vietnam, if someone ask you to have a cup of tea mean they would love you to stay to discuss sth, or asking whether you want to have few trips with their bong. Especially that bong part, you should skip it 😏😏 trust me, cuz it doesn't mean anything.
By that I’m assuming you mean Kyushu?? Or Okinawa, where everyone is just chilling by the beach with tanned lines boys and girls and some even call it the paradise of 南国 😆
While I was visiting Kyoto I hiked up the famous Fushimi Inari-taisha trail of torii gates. I got winded on my way up and decided to take a short break on a bench outside one of the smaller shrines on the way up. An old lady was sweeping around the shrine and I noticed she was glaring daggers at me. I got super uncomfortable and quickly left. I guess she didn’t want me on her bench… 😅
Visited Kyoto several years ago for a few day as a pure tourist. Didn't have any meaningful interaction with local people but what I can say about Kyoto is that it is very beautiful and extremely neat. Everything is just exactly how it is meant to be, tidy and elegant. In fact it is so perfect that it felt literally unreal. Later I learned about Kyoto's reputation and I now kinda understand why I had that feeling.
It's really hard to understand Japanese way of being. They're great at team work, and caring for the well-being of the over all. But their indirect way of communicating must lead to a lot of misunderstanding.
Oh, like the time my aunty complimented the pattern on the plate during dinner. (Not quite) Apparently she was asking for seconds. We're Malaysians btw. 🇲🇾
Kyoto is the place in the world I want to visit most. I love the traditional side of Japanese culture and the Azuchi-Momoyama period architecture. I'd much rather tour Kyoto than Tokyo, which I feel is far too modern. Good to get some knowledge of the etiquette within the city, so I can be respectful when I am there one day.
Shogo when you said it means..shut your kid up..made my day...you do have a tiny bit of comedic timing that is perfect to me..even though you were being so serious..it made me smile
Thanks for this. I visited my friend who worked in Kyoto(she's not from Kyoto but Hikone) and we had an "exchange" with an older woman and afterwards my friends was aggravated and made snide comments about how the woman talked to us. I didn't get it, my Japanese is crap but my friend mentioned something about the way people in Kyoto don't say what they mean. This video felt like a puzzle coming together.
Don't mind me asking these questions. 1) Do you consider Japan as a highly developed and advanced country ? 2) How would you personally rate Japan (from culture to technology, architecture, food, local products, scenery/landscape, standard of living/quality of life, etc.) on a scale level of 1 to 10 ? 3) What is your overall impression with the Japanese people ? 4) If you have 3 words or more to describe Japan, what would it be ?
there is a very similar "tradition" in Serbia where your host will subtly point out that you should leave by offering you a cup of coffee. That coffee has come to be known as the "sikter" coffee, which means "get the hell out"
This isn't sarcasm, it's supposed to be straightforward communication if you can "take a hint." I lived in Kyoto for 6 years and with that length of time you learn that you have to always be on the lookout for the hidden meaning behind people's words. If you can't, you're going to find yourself suddenly without friends or out of a job, so you have to be scanning people's language very actively for the hints they are trying to drop. It's very serious, not sarcastic, and if you miss the point you can find yourself in for a rude awakening. This is why outsiders consider this style of conversation to be frightening. Kyoto people aren't cruel or anything, but they're in a kind of conversational "Cold War" where hidden meanings are very important. This is just part of living there. As Shogo said, many people living in Kyoto are not Kyoto-natives, but everyone there participates in this language game to some degree or another, with the old-timers doing it the most.
It's interesting to learn about Kyoto's indirect conversation styles. I think it should be possible to be direct with what you want to say while being polite and respectful of the other person. It's all a matter of tact.
What else would you like to know about Kyoto?
Well Shogo-san, since you asked, I do have something that I would love to know more about Kyoto. For quite sometime now Ive been watching many, many videos of marching bands and it seems that Japan has lots of top class bands. But one in particular, the Kyoto Tachibana Senior High School has a reputation that spans the globe - no exaggeration. Maybe you might not be interested in such things as parades and music, but such things have no language barriers and as such their appeal have touch the hearts of countless numbers of fans all over the world. In particular the US that has a culture of high school bands and cheer leaders where their audience can be fiercely devoted. When the Tachibana band participated in the annual Rose Parade at Pasedena, California they left a lasting impression on their American audience. Now their videos are viewed many hundred thousands times, and there are hundreds of videos on TH-cam only of the Tachibana band.
So, if you can do a reportage about the band, its tradition, its history and their usual public performances and the contests that they participated in. Make sure to title your video ‘Everything you want to know about the Tachibana SHS Band - with english narration’ and it will be highly popular.
I spent 4 days in Kyoto, in January 2019, and I found the people to be the friendliest of all the cities I visited.
My only complaint was, since so many of the historical attractions are on the periphery of the city, getting around via public transit wasn't efficient.
I am excited to go back, since there is still so much of the city I haven't explored.
Kyoto Animation !
What is the perception of Kyoto-speak (I’m not sure if I should call it a dialect or an accent) outside of Kyoto?
That's a really nice watch. Would you like another cup of tea?
Back when I was an exchange student in Hokkaido, we had this one Literature teacher that was unnecessarily mean and cynical towards students, often making snarky remarks to us foreign students when we made mistakes. My Japanese friends kept saying "He's probably from Kyoto", and I never got the reference till now.
what you never asked why?
@@MarrowMelly I thought I missheard it, but also, I was kinda embarrassed of asking someone to explain a joke, because everyone else seemed to understand it
I would make these types so mad because I know I'd just take everything they say at face value: Oh, tea, how lovely, thanks! *continues talking for hours*
@@missplainjane3905
1) Japan is far more advanced and developed than my home country, Malaysia. Now that I'm studying in the UK, I can compare the two. Some things, Japan is still much more advanced (ie. Transportation, Hygiene, Healthcare). Other things, UK is more advanced (ie. Minority protections, work-life balance, mental health awareness). But overall, yes, Japan is extremely developed and advanced.
2) To numerically rate is hard, because I might be nostalgic, but I would say it's a 9/10. The food is amazing, the culture is extremely unique and interesting, the technology is really cool, the standards of living are very high. The cons of Japan, which makes me unable to give 10/10 are; lack of mental health awareness, extremely long working and school hours, and a culture that discourages people from voicing out their true opinions (Japanese people tend to keep their thoughts to themselves)
3) Overall, Japanese people are just like any other people in the world. Their culture is unique and does make for certain tendencies, but it's not like they're completely different than the rest of the world. Their culture makes for very nice and friendly people, but sometimes you do feel like it is not genuine, or that it's cynical, but you never really know, because they very rarely voice out what they feel. I've never heard a Japanese student outright insult a teacher no matter how bad they are, but here in the UK, people are much more open to voicing out and receiving criticisms, so there's students complaining about teachers at any given opportunity.
4)3 words, that's gonna be tough. Maybe; Beautiful, Unique, Friendly?
@@Izukachan how did you manage to live and study in japan? How old are you?
Fun thing is: in Italy when you want someone to stay you offer him something to drink (coffee or limoncello depeding on the time). To answer "thanks I'm good" and leave, would be seen as rather rude and inconsiderate.
yeah, same in my family, turning down food that is offered is saying that you think the host is poor and the food would be bad. that would definitely be considered an insult. you take the food, eat it there(unless they specifically packaged the food for you, Slovak grandmas do that with cookies), and compliment the server.
yes, at best you'd have the drink quickly and then leave. never just reject and leave.
I agree. It's so nice to have visitors now and again with a greeting of a cuppa.
Same in England . Would you like a cup of tea can only politely be answered with o that would be lovely thanks .
As a Greek, If I hadnt seen that video and went to Kyoto, I would be super confused if they offered me something to drink. I would accept and even though I would want to leave at some point, I would stay just so I wouldnt be rude. But not to worry.. I wouldnt go to Japan anyway because in another video I learned that people with some more weight get strange looks there and pokes on their belly. The things you learn on the internet!
If you offer me tea to try and get me to leave, there is a 100% chance I am staying and drinking that tea.
IKR! 🤣
Yeah I want tea 😅😅
I love tea, me too
Here in Italy it's literally the opposite, if they offer you something to drink it means they want you to stay longer, and if you decline it sounds kinda rude since youre refusing hospitality
Same! I wont miss the opportunity to enjoy tea!
I’m from the Southern US and can relate to the “Kyoto language.” It’s often meant to be kind / polite but can also be used passive-aggressively or to achieve an unstated outcome.
For example, if a Southerner says, “Bless your heart,” it can mean:
“I’m so sorry you’re going through a difficult time! I feel strong sympathy for you and hope you feel better,” OR
“I feel so sorry for you because you’re too stupid to live long.”
@Marx Regan Xi Luther I love Chicago and have really liked all the midwesterners I’ve met / made friends with! They are so kind and polite and also seem genuine. I also know my Chicago friends take zero nonsense, which I admire
As a Louisianan let’s just say that “Jesus loves you” gats thrown around a lot
@@fullmetalavalanche Hahahaha! That’s hilarious! We should adopt that one in SC
@@elusivemayfly7534 you could get flipped off and at the same time be told “Jesus loves you”. Won’t know how to react 😂
@@fullmetalavalanche 😂😂😂
The Kyoto Language is only a kindness when spoken to other people from Kyoto who understand "The Rules". It's kind of like the 70's-80's period of when US and Japanese companies started working together. It was understood in Japan, if a superior told you to do something, and you replied "That will be very difficult", it was a way of telling them "No" without having to tell them no. Because you indicated it would possibly not happen, your superior was expected to accept it wouldn't, sparing you the dishonor of failure, and sparing your superior the embarrassment of having an underling defy them. To an American, that would mean yes, but it will take a lot of effort. So when an American and Japanese company would be negotiating, if they made a demand, the Japanese team would say that is very difficult and assume the matter was put to rest, and the Americans would assume that meant they were putting extra effort in to make it happen.
Haha. Reminds me of that Mad Men episode.
The mindset of Americans is "think positive and everything is possible". If you said there's a slight chance to make it happen, then there's a way, just put more effort in it.
Yeah I think every language speaks in a way where sometimes it is direct and sometimes it requires interpretation. The difference in how you are going to interpret a phrase is generally cultural. So like the business example to understanding "it will be difficult" is a perfect example. Both in the US and in Japan, that phrase is not directly indicating that it will or will not be done, but how it is interpreted and for what purpose is entirely culturally difficult. It seems like the kyoto examples are just the same thing, but they are possibly used in areas where even in japan they normally speak directly, or excessively vague to the point the interpretation is not immediately apparent to the rest of japan specifically due to the microculture of kyoto.
We use the same phrase here in Germany xD "Wird sehr schwierig"
To me, that phrase would mean it's unlikely I can accomplish the task; possible but unlikely.
I finally understand why, when I was speaking with a Japanese person and expressed interest in visiting Kyoto, they told me to go anywhere else in Japan because "the people there are hard to understand." and they explicitly said it wasn't about the dialect but they didn't know how (or maybe didn't want) to explain the reason why.
Whaaaaat, a Japanese didn't want to openly address an uncomfortable topic? S U R E L Y N O T
They wanted to call them pretentious but didn't wanna be rude
@@FatesxofxthexDead They also didn't want to be honest or backup their statements with anything real other than their own bias. So as to protect their own image they decided not to be 'rude'.
I remember on the first day arriving in Kyoto I was shocked by the very gruff voices of the polite bus drivers but at the same time amused by how different Kyoto was compared to the rest of Japan. It has a certain quality to it that you don't see anywhere else and I could see why they were a bit conservative about protecting and looking after their city.
I would get pissed off at them for not explaining why and just say “I can’t say.”
As a person who lives in Kyoto for 2.5 years.
I can say it's 100% correct, not exaggerated even once.
Their passive-aggresiveness is making me so angry sometimes.
I am from Tokyo and i knew all of the answers of the mini quiz LOL :D
That is a nice whatch You have there.
@@taylantnt6367 I’m not Japanese, and I guessed them correctly as well. Basically reverse the sentences in a negative and you get the meaning. Your kid is “too energetic”. I don’t have any more tea for you. The watch are a bit more complicated, but it was obvious they want to remind you of the time when they point out your watch.
In Germany, you would say that in a direct and polite way. I think it is much better to be honest than being "fake" polite. Being polite or friendly can be shown by many different ways.
@@lestatlegistat6553 Yeah, sometimes fake polite is actually ruder than straight forward rude.
As a Japanese person, I like watching the fight between Osaka and Kyoto people.
Kyoto people who want the person to go home early vs. Osaka people who want to drink tea
(The interesting thing about this is that Osaka people often understand the irony of Kyoto people.)
Sounds like people in Kyoto are passive aggressive.
Kyoto is the Ohio of Japan.
@@Mortablunt Or like when Texans say "bless your heart".
Hmm... it's almost like their official dialect is Sarcastic Japanese.
but with 'common' passive aggressive people is that we can tell they're being like that. while in japan (at least from some video i've watched), it will sound genuine/not layered loo, cmiiw
@@MechaG that's the south in general. Florida's the same way
-kyoto person: would you like some tea?
-yeah thanks
-kyoto person: 👁👄👁
"Yes please!"😂
Yeah what if you do say yes to the tea?
I’d say yes and can you bring some sweets 🍭 J
@@DDStriker-qf3ne you’ll look naive and a tad childish
@@トーキ-g8v But will i get my tea ?
''your dress is so beautiful''
''thank youuu~~ it was on sale, last one on the rack, 50% off--''
''i'm from kyoto''
''okayyy.... i'll take it off and burn it now''
😂😂🤣
"I'm from Kyoto."
"Kyoto people don't get 50% off sale?"
That is how you get exiled and possibly slashed to ribbons by a katana.
I've been in Kyoto for a while and had never issues "as a foreigner".
My wife who is a local told me about how much hypocritical are some japanese, and put it under that "we do not want to cause trouble so we'll say that way" culture.
I do respect japanese culture and cultural differences between every country but i'll step out whenever there is a distinct lack of respect.
We have one kid with my wife and her grandmother took care of our kid one day so we could chill out and eat outside.
We met some old people who knew my wife at a restaurant (small city, everyone knows each other). My wife explained that thanks to her grandmother, she could relax a bit. The answer from the old hag was something like "oooh that is good that you can relax outside without your kid huh" but the meaning was "how dare you allow yourself some rest while you are a young mom? My generation, we always struggle and took care of the baby... We do not have "time" to relax when we are mothers.
My wife felt uncomfortable as i could also understand the "secret meaning".
I replied straight away : "yeah, too bad your generation had so much problems right? That is nice that today's generation is able to have soooo much comfort with technology and help. We are sooo lucky compared to you. I feel sorry that you could not enjoy such quality time in your younger days!"
The old hag and her friend drop their jaws and left embarassed, mumbling things like "godamn foreigner who has not respect for old people etc." I never said anything that could be pointed as rude. I just played by her rules 😅. My wife scolded me a bit but still laughed at the situation and we could enjoy dinner after😎
[YEAAAAAAAHH]
Nice one bro, defending your wife like that.
Instead you and wife should’ve said “It is a pain but thanks so much” that would’ve made her smile.
That's a true power move there, would have done the same
and then everybody clapped
🍵
Me, who grew up with "It's rude to decline an offer of food/drink": *Nervous sweating*
Same, I would not pass the tea test... In Iran tea is something you are offered constantly. You usually should turn it down 2 to 3 time and then accept it happily. No idea why, and it's pretty old school so not sure many people do that now..
@@sunday-tea9853 I guess that custom is shared? There was a Turkish man on vacation that visited my church and I gave him a ride back to his Air BNB. He invited me in and offered some tea, and I had recalled that there was a custom where one was supposed to refuse before accepting the tea (though, I wasn't sure if that was a general Middle Eastern thing, or just for some specific countries). I did refuse at first though, and then accepted, and his family seemed to open up and be very polite afterward.
As a Russian, we MUST decline the offer, if we accept the offer of food or drinks, it means that we are "not full and are always hungry", which means that our parents have failed us.
If it's a stranger like you know 5 minutes ago and invite you to their house and offer you of the tea, i probably politely decline that, and who knows...who knows , if you catch my drift
@@k.h6635 yeah, im also afraid of being Bill Cosby'ed up, if you catch my drift
Kyoto man to wife: I've loved you since we first met.
Me: You f*cking monster!
Wife: Besides your dozen of mistresses, you are correct.
Or,
I appreciate that you work so hard and have the means to take care of soo much households. You re thoughtful.
@@ismata3274 Good one, good one.
When your wife's age is the same digit as the size of your shoes.
@@987inuyasha 44? I can take that.
As a Brit, I hope someone has explained to the lovely people of Kyoto that they should never try the tea trick on a Brit:
Brit: *is thinking of leaving*
Kyoto person: "Would you like some tea?"
Brit: *is now compelled to stay* "That'd be lovely, thank you."
Even libyan people won't decline such offer 😅 especially when prepared the tradional way.
It might work if they said coffee instead.
@@伏見猿比古-k8c it would on me; offer me coffee and I'd be out of the door within the minute. That or I'd thank them politely and ask if they have tea...
@@BlueTressym "Would you like a 'to-go' cup?"
Lol
Ohhhh as a Dutch person I am in so much trouble if I ever get stranded in Kyoto :') Our language is the exact opposite, always to the point and rarely behind ones back. As a result I'll likely just take you up on that offer for some tea and thank you for complimenting my watch and probably tell you where I got it so you may have a look at their other stuff one day since you like it so much :') Both completely valid ways to communicate depending on how you were raised, but the two opposites collide rather than attract in this case :p
Yes I agree. It'll collide rather than attract. I would go mad, having to live in an environment like this. To me it just sounds dishonest and inefficient
@@mariadebake5483 Because it is. Japanese society is deeply hypocritical.
As an autistic Dutch person, this is even more true. Even in a direct culture it's hard enough to navigate, I can't even see how I would survive in indirect cultures like in Kyoto.
In Kyoto fashion, the real meaning of the title of this video is “Why Kyoto hate the rest of Japan.”
As a japanese, I approve
Seems like the people of Kyoto feel the rest of Japan is beneath them - and the rest of Japan dislike them for being snobs.
@@Shaylok sounds like me and people outside of Kyoto have something in common
@@Shaylok It's not that different in some ways to many other countries, where the people of the capital city/region feel a sense of superiority (London in the UK, Paris in France etc), the only slight difference being that Kyoto isn't actually the capital any more, it seems they've just held on to the attitudes
@@trice1857 You're not Japanese
"Your food was too good!"
Translation: "Where is your bathroom? I need to take a shit."
😂😂😂
How you come up with that 😂
@@lagseeing8341 Too much of a good thing leads to... complications.
"Nice weather today"
Translation: Get out of my house.
Seriously????
After living for a year in Kyoto, these were my experiences as well. Especially my non-Kyoto-born Japanese friends were complaining a lot how rudely they were often treated as an inferior there, and that many didn't like it there for that reason.
Having lived in several places in Japan, I wouldn't recommend Kyoto to anyone as a place to live. It is nice place to visit, but compared to any other Japanese city, it felt really cold and cynical
Vähän niinkuin Turusta, Raumasta, Porista tai Pohjanmaasta kerrottaisiin muunsuomalaisille. Raumalla oli mukavaa, työkavereiden kanssa tutustui hyvin ja motoristikavereiden kanssa tuli hyvin juttuun.
i love places like that i would fit in i like my privacy my family's enough for me i can learn the rest of the culture by going anywhere else in japan witch are a very generous and beautiful cultured people
@@tarmokortelainen4572 ?
Ah, so Miami? Nice
@@jin_cotl he's saying In that city there are also a bunch of creeps that with ulterior motives
"Care for a drink?" being spoken as "Please leave" is definitely unique, mayhaps to Kyoto lingo. For certain, in my homeland, being offered a drink is never a cue for a guest to leave, just the opposite; it's usually when a drink is not offered but a small parcel of bread instead that is usually a cue for the guest to depart, only if the guest appears to be able to ambulate. Might sound weird, but if a guest ends up inebriated and completely incapacitated by inebriation, the guest is provided the means to sleep it off. 🤷♀
I am a Tokyo person hence it may be better to wait for a Kyoto person to correct me, but if my impression is correct, this example has to be understood with non-verbal contexts. The meaning delicately changes depending on the contexts, the concept known as pragmatics in linguistics.
Imagine that you are in a host's house and have enjoyed some afternoon tea already and it's getting a bit later in the evening. Suppose a host only verbally asks you WITHOUT PHYSICAL PREPARATION whether you would like another cup, then I feel you are advised to leave. Possibly even in Tokyo.
Thus, this way of indirect verbal communication functions as intelligence and local code knowledge screening tests. Since you cannot completely represent social or physical phenomenon verbally, you expect the minimal knowledge and guessing ability of others by testing them via indirect language usage.
(I made similar responses to other comments in this video as well)
It's more like ironic,saying negetive views with a gentle way
In some other cultures it's worse, it can sometimes literally mean "I really want to kill you", and then, you are mysteriously never heard from again after the first sip. 😅
It means that because they feel you’ve gotten so comfortable that you might need to be offered refreshment. Also, making a tea takes time and effort at least in the Japanese culture. Most people don’t want to put others through the trouble.
Tbh, where I come from, when you're offered a coffee after a while it is also our cue for guests to leave.
So Kyoto is basically the physical manifestation of negative Japanese social stereotypes.
There is no stereotype like that
I heard they put up mural consisting of nothing but dank memes
@@ahmadhassan8466 uh, yea there is lol
@@ahmadhassan8466 lol there is
@@ahmadhassan8466 said by white gaijin. the most hated by kyoto
So basically, people from Kyoto talk like the stereotypical mother in law..."I looove how you redecorated, clearly you did it yourself, right?!?"😳
Jenniffer; It's really refreshing to meet a woman that isn't obsessed with her appearance.
no.its too rude...too direct
I have never been around people like that....that I know of. I'm so straight forward that I thank them, hug them, and smile. Just now I'm remembering a couple confused and irritated looks - as if their insults didn't quite have the effect they wanted. Bwhahahahaha! Being 'real' wins!
@@terrijuanette486in my country it usually use by people that working in bureaucracy even public school teacher or informal bureaucracy like comunity leader.
"Oh, thank you so much, mother in law. So many are blind and lose their decorative sense at your age." 😇😇😇😇
“Would you like some tea?”
“Oh, no thank you, I better head out”
“No I mean would you like some tea? I have matcha and milk tea”
“Please excuse me. I understand. I’ll leave now”
Hahahahaha
In my province, it is said that a guest should accept the tea that the host gave. If the guest didn't drink the tea, then the guest would be labeled as rude by the host.
@@_laifishardisntit_1379 Well, if you are drinking the tea at least you can't talk as much at the same time. The danger is if you have refreshed your babbling guest. haha
Visiting Kyoto after watching this video,
"Do you wanna some tea?"
"Nah, I brought my own tea" (*start pouring)
“Sure! I’ll take it to go~”
The key is if they offer you tea *after a while*. The polite thing to do if they actually want to give you tea is to offer first thing when you arrive.
As someone from southern USA I totally get what Shogo means by the "Kyoto Language". Phrases like, "Bless your heart" or "Well I shouldn't keep you" all have that secondary underlying meaning that is understood while still coming across as polite.
@Helion Prime On the surface, it is a very polite thing to say when giving comfort. For instance, "Oh no! You fell and scrapped your knee? Bless your heart, I'm sure that stings. Let me get you a band aid." The flip side to that, and the way it tends to be used is with implied sarcasm. It can often be used in place of "you dumbass" or something rude like that. For instance, "So you forgot to fill up the gas tank in the car after I reminded you three times and now you're stuck on the side of the road? Bless your heart." People born and raised around this phrase know how to use it with proper subtlety so it will sound like they are being nice. Conversely, people born and raised around this phrase know that it is rarely used sincerely. (As a note, the examples I've given above are not subtle in the slightest.)
"Would you like some tea?"
Kyoto: Please leave
Italy: Please stay
Imagine both people met each other lmfao
I think this works the same in every latin country, here in Brazil we offer coffee for someone to stay longer...
I'd never thought of implied sarcasm as a kindness before...
Hmmmm sounds like they wouldn't deal well with the Minnesota goodbye. Any one of those comment is just asking for a longer conversation.
It's just like offfering a tea of coffe hhere. We are basically asking the person to stay a little longer. For a friend we offer some beer or a juice, and then we kinda know that the host really like us.
Yeah I live in Australia and from my experience, asking someone for tea or coffee always means asking them to stay an extra hour or two
Kyoto sounds like a place where you can't take any compliments to heart but you can be damn sure every negative comment is sincere.
Dude, that tea thing would backfire so hard with us Italians.
I am not even joking, once a group of us basically barged in the house of a friend after a hard 3 day mountaineering trip for a quick hello, and ate EVERYTHING. Some of us even took meat out of the refrigerator and cooked stew for like two hours.
Another time a close group of young friends stayed with a British family and dined together. Again, they just wiped the table, thinking there would have been more to eat, the British were horrified.
All those comments here about Italy makes me wanna visit it
You'd fit right in here in America.
Yeah I'll take a cup. Got some cookies
Sounds like genuine friends. I wouldn't be scared just surprised xD
“The British were horrified”
The only thing I really found surprising in this video was that Kyoto was disliked by the rest of Japan for this indirect/two-faced communication style. The majority of the world outside of Japan essentially thinks that what you described as Kyoto culture is just Japanese culture overall. So does that mean some parts of Japan, by inference, would have a more "Western" style of communication, that is they are less concerned with avoiding conflict and more willing to tell it like it is? If they don't like the way Kyoto is, it sounds like there must be at least one place in Japan that is almost the opposite.
Probably just means that Kyoto is japan on steroids. Also Osaka is a little bit more direct
People in Japan are very polite and indirect.
"There is a way, so eloquent and polite, of telling someone to 'f*ck off' that they'll happily do so with a smile" -Unknown, but always in mind.
Kyoto must be extremely passive aggressive and vague then..
Firstly, being "direct and open" is not uniquely Western. The Japanese have their own way of coming off as direct and open. Most young people are direct and to the point, but they just make sure that they make their point or statement in a polite non-confrontational way. That doesn't mean they're indirect, it's just their way of being direct.
Kyoto: Would you like some tea?
Me: Would YOU like some tea?
Kyoto: Damn, he's good.
Now Kyoto has to leave Japan
@@polarnyong or maybe Japan has to leave Kyoto ?
How dare you using my own sarcasm to me!!
-kyoto
- Dude, Im at home already!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Kyoto: Would you like some tea.
British: We'll take your entire stock
Yeah, to a Brit, this would be an open invitation to be even more of a "presence" in the house. This would openly backfire on anybody from Kyoto who was trying to be politely rude to their guests.
Me who is also from a tea drinking culture Would take the entire stock of Tea
"By force, even if not necessary."
@@lord-of-roses6647 dayum
@@lord-of-roses6647 The Empire is back!
The "Your child is so energetic" is something i could imagine posh English women saying to each other in a passive aggressive tone. The tea one wouldn't have worked on me though, even if i wanted to leave i would have said yes because its polite. Also i'm British and there is tea involved.
Context is key, for example some salesperson is at your place, you're at the table for some time and then you want to end the discussion so you kind of half stand-up and look slightly nervous and you say "oh but oh my, maybe i should at least boil some water or something... make some tea..." and the person will get the clue: it's taking too long, we're not that close, i'm bored, sayonara. I have lived in Japan for 6 years and I don't think this is that explicitely japanese to be honest... i've seen people in every country do that. Japanese just maybe more, and it's kind of expected culturally so people are better at reading the cues and 'following' them? but it's just basic diplomacy honestly.
@@siuaiseo when there's tea involved, nothing else matters.
@@siuaiseo if someone offered me tea I'd find it rude to decline. Then I'd stay around longer because now I have tea to drink. See how that can be interpreted in different ways?
This was the only one I got right before he told the answer. Definitely crosses into several cultures. Or maybe because I used to be a teacher!
@@rbkskillz is the same in Chile since we have a fourth meal before dinner or straight up replace dinner with "la once" were you drink tea, so if someone asks if you want tea at noon, it means they're inviting you to "tomar once" which pretty much means you're having dinner with us
I was in Kyoto for only 5 days but my experience was amazing. I met you Shogo & master Kawata at Samurai Juku. Both of you we're kind enough to adapt a special Iaido class for my benefit. I keep a very special memory of this. Also at Tozando where I bought my Hakama & other martial art equipment. I had a warm conversation with the store manager. Perhaps it is different if you are Japanese & from another prefecture. I find the Japanese people in general to be extremely polite & a bit distant but if a foreigner shows respect, is very polite & shows interest... I found the Japanese to be warm & very helpful even in Kyoto.
As someone from Tokyo, Kyoto is literally the city of passive aggressiveness at its finest and I can’t deal with the people in Kyoto I can’t ever imagine myself live there
@@zeroimpact742 what
@@zeroimpact742 ?
I guess I would be constantly serving the tea so as to prevent any further disappointments
Is the London of the eastern world
Sounds like Tokyo would be a must for Finns to visit and Kyoto a place to avoid. Especially for me, since I have a hard time understanding subtle hints
OMG,I just moved to Kyoto from china, and when I have someone install my air-con, I offered them tea...
Oh no...
Oof
Haan what have you done 😰
Before or after the job 😂 ?
😂
lmaoo 😂 😂 thx for this comment It made me laugh
"Would you like some tea?"
"How dare you ask me to go home?!"
GIVE ME THAT TEA AND LOOK AT ME TAKE AAAAAALL MY TIME FOR DRINKING IT SLOOOOWWWLY VERY SLOWLY
IT can go both ways. I had a Friend who took Iado classes, with a Japanese Expat Master, who was originally from Kyoto. When they had passed their exams, the Master thought it was time for the students to compete in Japan. The event was in Kyoto, and the students were welcomed warmly. It was the rich kid students from Tokyo who were dismissive, and cold. Well Tokyo took the top twp spots in the event, but one of the Americans took 3rd, and the Kyoto team took it as a victory, because it was their master's work.
Guest - "I am leaving"
Host - "Would you like some tea?"
Guest - "Yes"
*Host is now forced to make some tea while endures the overstay from the guest*
Hey, they invited me so I'm staying until all the tea is inside me~
Kyoto is like the capital of sarcasm. 😂
My first thought too!
I grew up in kyoto and my family is a traditional one whose roots are also in kyoto and I say, you're right...
I was thinking “the capital of passive-aggressiveness” myself.
No, because unlike in British style of sarcasm which is actually spoken with sarcastic intent (humorous roundabout to convey a meaning), most Asians who speak like described in this video is simply passive-aggressive (too scared or too proud to speak directly, hence they have to resort to a roundabout). In other words, sarcasm is intended to be funny, while passive-aggressiveness is not.
That would imply they’re humorous with it. Which they aren’t, it seems to be purely passive aggressive.
"If you enjoyed this video, please hit the like button." So--what do you mean by that?
"get the fck off my channel"
@@TheDarkstar3601 i died in laugh xD
@@TheDarkstar3601 PHABHAHAHHAAA
I did subscribe. But this comment is funny.
Dislike and unsubscribe, if you're not subscribed, subscribe then unsubscribe.
Passive-aggressive is a global language-- my mother who was ethnically Ukrainian and from Canada did those kinds of phrases all the time. It's interesting that a group could all really agree to that level of passive-aggressive; it does imply a group that is very tight-knit.
"Do you want some tea?" ... "You know. Just two minutes ago i was thinking about going, but now that you are offering tea i think i will stay a while longer."
I'd just be sitting on their couch drinking my 5th cup of tea at 1AM.
"You Kyoto folk are so kind and accommodating!"
"I don't even have a watch, oh these clothes came from the thrift shop but thanks a bunch, my face? nobodies ever admired me so openly."
I was there for Gion Matsuri a few years back, that was a neat experience. I'm glad that I didn't realize they hated me until now ;).
:v
I love this 🤣
Don't care about what they think of you. Just take it as a compliment so you won't fall into Kyoto's trap.
Kyoto person: you have such a nice watch!
Me: b-but I'm not weari-
LMAO😩😩😩🤣🤣🤣
Some random japanese woman said this to me in the airport and I didn't have a watch. She was next in line and I was talking to a guide because my flight was delayed. I responded instinctively by saying "Did you lose your glasses?" in a complete deadpan. I think two people died laughing in the adjacent line as the woman stormed out. I saw her passing me again in the line that laughed at her because apparently it was her flight that was boarding. Well now I know.
@@inventor121 Damn you really told her "Your perfume smells nice"
@@hermitcard4494 THE TIME.. IS PASSING.. ON YOUR BEAUTIFUL WATCH.. LOOK AT IT.. LOOK AT THE TIME! 🤣
@@inventor121 Then everyone in the room clapped right?
I have travelled the world and I am pretty sure that Kyoto is the single most beautiful place I've ever seen. And I mean that. Beautiful, spotless, and the best food. Before I die I'd like to see it again in the fall. Thanks so much for this wonderful channel.
I'm sorry Shogo-san. I have to humbly disagree with you even though you have been perfectly correct in everything you have said. I am a poor human for saying this........but, the real reason that all of Japan hate Kyoto is because of the one thing that you have, and it is the very best in all of the world - The Tachibana Senior High School band
You are probably the most polite person I've encountered by reading his or her comment in a while 😊
@@miriammanolov9135 haha, it was done tongue in cheek😉 I was serious about the band though👍🏼
You beat me to the comment. I'm a huge fan o f Tachibana Green Marching Band. They are wonderful!
gary Aa, wouldn’t it be just awesome if we have a native translator like Shogo-San to narrate all those interviews and show commentaries?😃
Yesss they are so amazing! Before COVID my band teacher showed us a clip of them to motivate us and I was like omg I can recognize those orange uniforms anywhereee
here in Yorkshire in the UK, if you are not offered a cup of tea within 5 mins, we would be asking, "is ya kettle bust?".
Haha
And you guys have left some of this colonial heritage back here in India. We go as far as asking for tea, 'ektu cha hobey naki?' (in Bengali; will there be some tea?)
Southerners, too. You have to offer something, even cold water for the honor of the house. If you go in warm weather in the country, they make you take a bag of squash or beans or tomatoes, if they like you. In winter, something home canned.
I'm from Brazil and I'd love to live in Northern England, cuz I love the dialects and how everyone seems to be down to earth
Omg I read it with a British accent lmao
I've watch a video before with title "How Kyoto has become quiet and less tourists because of the covid-19 pandemic" In the comment section I saw an interesting comment related to this video. This person said theres an old lady greeting him in front of her house then offering him a tea and he is happily said that this old woman is a kind person. After watching this video I kinda feel sorry for that guy. She actually wants him to leave then 😂. That tea part and two faced factor of the kyoto people in this video makes me uneasy...
Yes! That's the comment from that video I remember when Shogo san mentioned the tea offering. Lol
I'm going to watch that again after this. I took her tea offer at face value. Now...
Lol i remember it too
About the "do you want some tea?" one we here in the Netherlands also have something similar but only about the evening. If as a kid you invited somebody over to play and it is getting late the parents will say "we are about to have dinner". This means: "go home". It mainly comes from us planning our meals for a certain amount of people so you have to ask beforehand if you can stay for dinner or have to be invited to stay. This also means that the food your parents made you at home won't be wasted by you suddenly eating at a friend's house. As an adult it is a lot more direct and you generally play to stay only for a certain time.
Same in Southern US.
After watching this, I'd like to hear more about Osaka which while it isn't super far from Kyoto seems to be quite a contrast with a reputation of being one of the most casual and honne places in Japan. Was the development of that kind of culture almost like a rebellion to the strict culture in Kyoto I wonder?
Mercantile cities etc. tend to be a lot more accomodating, and also a lot less inundated by cryptic culture, because they are usually cosmopolitan, meaning they are rarely strictly monocultured, as they have to be able to trade across cultural borders, can't do that when half the conversation is misunderstood by the other person.
Likewise, mercantile cultures don't tend to be "nice" per se, they tend to be very blunt and direct, which some find rude.
@@omega1231 nice vocab
@@BananaDope ooh is this Kyoto language as well 🤣🤣🤣
Osaka is home to the coolest people in Japan.
I keep imagining a European and a Kyoto resident locked in an infinite battle where one party offers tea to get rid of the other, but the other can not leave because tea is offered and must be drunk.
You must be an American, ain'cha, sweetheart?
Nah, as an Eastern European (Romanian) I'd refuse the tea offer and ask for some booze instead.
@@o6ina You say that.. but a Londoner made this joke elsewhere in the comments so.........................................
@@yangyin8492 UK is not representing Europe as a whole. They even got out of it officially. The majority of Europe drinks coffee and get's it when it is time to go home.
@@o6ina A country can't leave a continent. Also don't generalize Europe, not everyone drinks only coffee or even gets it after work.
I guessed, 'close' on that first one.
"Your child is SO energetic!"
My Translation: "That kid is out of control."
hahahaha
"Shut it gramma" would be my reply
My translation was : "Shut you tazmanian devil kid up!"
Yep I guessed the same
Mine was problematic
my personal takes here as a Philippines resident in Metro Manila, those that live in scoially rich cities can give off that vibe too. Not all of them, but a fair amount of them.
"Would you like some tea?"
"Oh, I was actually just about to leave but since you're offering me a drink, it would be rude of me to decline."
*goes to the kitchen and commit seppuku*
Kyoto hosts: "You son of a-"
Lmao they shouldn't have asked, aye.
OUTPLAYED.
''Oh.. actually we're all out of tea! ''
rat poison will solve the problems forever.
So Kyoto denizens essentially tell others “Bless your heart…” Heh. Fake polite is actually a world-wide phenomenon.
Kyoto is basically the Georgia of Japan
Meaning you have never been around people who actually SAY Bless your heart. Most of them mean it.
It is a very Chinese/CCP in style of bullshittyness.
@@palladiamorsdeus It means both. You just have to know the tone.
"Bless your heart" is usually said with genuine pity rather than condescension. It's at least somewhere in between those.
My Kyoto host: You are so energetic.
Me: Thanks I try to be positive!
MKH: Thats a great watch
Me: Gift from my wife, she's the best!
MKH: You have great clothes.
Me: You know, I was worried this didn't match! Thank you!
MKH: Would you like some tea?
Me: ☺*these Japanese folks are the most encouraging and hospitable people ever!*
MKH: 😡* Why is this !$@#% American still here?!?*
You know even it's okay to comment here, you won't know if they're gonna unleashed their true colors on you with furious face 🤣🤣
🤣
This season on Ted Lasso, Ted gets a job in Japan. hijinks ensue.
lmao
All fun and games until you get a shuriken to the face.
3:04 honestly as a british person that part didn't sound that wierd, we often have a very similar culture of not saying what you mean.
it's very frustrating for people like me who tend to take things literally.
"Would you like a cup of tea or coffee?"
Translation: "Are you a person of high culture or a savage?" 😅
In my culture, if I get offered a cup of tea it means: I love having you here stay longer. And it would sorta be in bad manners to say no.
This was all very interesting
same
Hahaha, here in Brazil, its disrespectful to deny something to drink, I already had to drink beer because of it and i fcking hate beer.
@@wortis683same case in indonesia
Same here in the Philippines ..if there's a guest we always offer them foods and beverages as a sign of respect and to make them comfortable ...I never knew that this things has a bad meaning on kyoto such as the tea part where literally means to "get out now"
Same in India , my country , we have to receive any guests with tea and snacks but also in my state it is not viewed rude to reject it , I don't like tea so I always rejects it politely.. 😆
"Women are really complicated"
Kyoto women: (ಠ‿ಠ) You know nothing, child...
😂😂😂
“Precisely.”
You definitely are not lying. My ex gf is from Kyoto, and she was complicated most of the time, and hid her true feelings. When we broke up, I told one of my good female Japanese friends, and she even said Kyoto women are some of the most complicated women in Japan lol
the lady giggles and chimes：you are so smart～
wait did they just say smart？ uh oh
Specially,when two Kyoto mothers talk
Modern day twist:
Would you like some tea?
Sure! I’ll have it “to go!”
😁🤣🤣🤣
Honestly the Kyoto language section reminds me of us British. And the impression people have of us as polite... until you spend any time dealing with us. And from experience how the southern US and northern England are similar in that regard
In Spain, when we want to kick someone out, we sometimes say: "let's go to bed because these people probably want to leave"
"Es que como España, no hay nada!"
En Ecuador comenzamos a bostezar y a ver el reloj
well, it's a great tip. XD
In Brazil we put a broom behind the door hahaha
@@juliohenrique8546 exactly, we rely on superstition, lol
Kyoto person: "Would you like some tea?"
me: "No thanks. Do you have a cold Asahi super-dry?"
🍺🍺🍺
I only drink corona - dominic torreto
🤣🤣
🤣😂
@@LetsaskShogo - this is like why Americans don't like New Yorkers. They think they're better than everyone else. But instead of being two faced they are very rude and combative.
Back then in kyoto
Lord :"oh what a sharp katana you've got there"
Retainer: "oh no time for Seppuku"
you win this comment section, lmao
Lmao
Seriously?
Beautiful
Im pretty sure they used a special ceremonial dagger thingy to cut their stomach and not a katana,but nice joke none the less.
Konnichiwa, Shogo. I’ve just discovered your channel. I’ve been in love with Japan for 49 years now (I’m 60) and I want to thank you for the nice and so interesting things you are telling us. Arigato gosaimas. I also want to congratulate you for your english, wich is very clear and understandable, very « Oxford-ish », as I like to practice myself. Forgive me if I do not write properly these few japanese words I know. François, from Belgium.
The passive-aggressive Kyoto remind me of how "polite conversation" used to work here in England - Compliment people on their failures to make them reflect on it.
LOL
Dang I must be British because my sister and I do this to each other, all the time.
The whole two faced, mentality honestly would drive me crazy i live in australia where it is considered kind to tell the truth (in a kind way ofc) because people who are unable to come to terms with the truth are considered weak willed and typically looked at in a negative way due to their inabilities to come to terms with the fact that life is hard
“Life is hard”: if people could get that through their thick skulls, I think politics across the globe would be a LOT healthier. Instead we throw money at everything, as if it were the only human problem, and hadn’t been tried already.
Well I mean you guys are a former Prison colony.
Australians are way too blunt, it's terrible. You guys even say racist stuff openly. I would prefer passive aggression.
@@vetiarvind yes, as an American, I always think first and choose words wisely before I insult someone, just so they know the right level of offense to be taken
@@vetiarvind Lol yeah. Everytime I talk to Australians I get shocked at how blunt they are. But its a lovely trait in my opinion. I take bluntness over two faced liars
Oh god, i would die in Kyoto then. In India we don't have filters, what's in our head is on our mouths. We are very very direct and blunt and we like it this way. No mental gymnastics involved.
You tell your guests to go home? 😁
I think Indian culture is very complex. There are Indians in the Philippines and my parents are friends with a couple for more than 20 years now. They are good people and I even get to tutor some of the kids in their community when I was a collage student. An Indian man courted me and he was really open with his interest. The problem is, I'm not ready for any relationship at that time and he was pretty aggresive. He seems like a great guy but he believes in polygamy and I'm just not into that so I rejected him... but he kept coming to our house. Thanks to my parent's Indian friends, he eventually gave up and they told me that I shouldn't be friendly or smile too much if I meet an Indian who is looking for a wife. I was confused because I didnt even knew the guy till he talked to me for a few minutes then he started visiting me at work, but I followed their advice.
Anyone who has ever gotten a call from a collection agency knows this.
I am sure it is more a question of education and social class than of country
You've never been to Pune then 😂😂
This is very similar to how Pune people behave.
My father, as a very young sergeant, was among the very first occupation troops in Japan. He arrived just a couple of days after the formal surrender and was in Hiroshima just weeks after the bomb. For two years, from early 1946 through early 1948, he was mostly stationed in Kyoto. He was already familiar with Japanese Americans through growing up in a part of LA where they were common, though he initally spoke no Japanese and only learned a rudimentary form of it while stationed there. He enjoyed Kyoto and its history very much. He also got along very well with the locals despite their initial fear. We grew up as children hearing about the beauty and glories of Kyoto, including having pictures of various sites about the house. My relatives and friend's families, like most Japanese Americans, trace their roots to Kyushu, mainly Hiroshima Prefecture and neighboring areas, so growing up with a fondness for Kyoto was a little unusual. Thanks for the explanations, which I was unaware of.
I love videos about Kyoto.
Here in Vienna, we have some imperial language behaviors, too.
Older people would say quite similar things for similar purpose!
This is a city, where an emperor once had a say.
It might be typical in many post-feudal countries.
Can remember seeing Christoph Waltz comparing Austria or Ireland in this respect. "Everybody is very nice and nobody means it". It's unfortunately true. In Dublin in particular, people don't say what they mean and it gets really annoying when you aren't from Dublin and don't know when they're being 2 faced.
"Would you like some tea?"
Uncle Iroh: I'd LOVE some tea!
Would you like some honor?
Zuko: 👁️👄👁️
... and a game of Pai Sho..
@@zukoshonor4557 lmao
Hahaha my friends from Tokyo always say Kyoto people are arrogant - but you’re a nice person! 🥰
No seriously, Kyoto is my least favourite place in Japan. People are indeed arrogant and they look down on those with a “non-Japanese face”. I study Japanese and I always want to interact with people, talk to them even though it’s maybe baby talk and just feel like I’m welcome. I can’t live in Japan permanently so I visit at least once a year for a long time. But people in Kyoto are the worst - they don’t talk to you, don’t look at you or even yell at you. Kyoto has a double culture I think, there’s the glittery facade of tourist traps and Geisha dinner parties and as long as foreigners engage in those activities and buy overpriced trash it’s ok. But if someone makes and effort, tries to speak Japanese and is really interested in everyday or “deeper” stuff people shut down and chase you away. Worst experience I had was in a kamidana store. I really wanted to buy a big one for my garden and some supplies for the small one in my home but the store owner chased me out and said I wasn’t allowed to look. Why?! I don’t know 🤷♀️
But to be fair, if my city was flooded with ignorant tourists every year who don’t respect shrine rules, people’s privacy and Geiko, litter and block the way of ordinary workers every day I’d probably also be hostile. So for some reason I understand why they hate foreigners so much but on the other hand I hope they’d look twice and be more friendly to a person who is genuinely interested in Japanese culture.
Thank you very much for leaving a comment, and sharing your experiences!
I did a Workaway in Kyoto for 6 weeks and had a completely different experience. people (especially old couples) were very talkative and polite and i also got a lot of credit for my effort to speak Japanese , i witnessed this passive talk and often had the feeling that people dont say what they really mean (to strangers) but i didnt think it was a a behaviour restricted to Kyoto. In the end i guess it just depends on the people you meet during your specific trip.
That's actually a really clever & diplomatic way of communicating in volatile situations, I can only imagine the tense, stressful & complicated conditions such a culture developed & flourished under
This man spilling so much TEA on Kyoto, we can make a tea ceremony out of it
As a US Southerner I would miss all those cues. “Oh tea, yes please”.
My solution for this will be to take everything they say at face value,and act accordingly. Because that will be my kind way to tell them off.
Them: your kid is so energetic
You: i know, you like that? Wanna play with him? 😂
Them: you have a nice watch.
You: well thanks,... And then start a long story involving that watch😂
Them: would you like some tea?
You: yes please. I have heard you make the best tea😂
@@jonson856 Ahh, I think this woudl be rude.
@@42kellys thats the point😂
@@42kellys Passive aggressive is rude.
Or you could praise them for their poetic way with words.
Amazing to understand this controversy about Kyoto. I knew a Japanese woman who also mentioned something about Kyoto being a strict part of Japan. Now I understand.
My husbands family have lived in Uji, Kyoto for many generations and have never acted like this towards me. Most welcoming and truly nice people I’ve ever met. And my husband is the most straight forward person I’ve ever met. But I can see how Kyoto people feel a little bit of hierarchy over other people but not that much.
Many exaggeration i feel
"people in Kyoto hide their feelings and never say what they really mean to say"
Me : "wait.. arent ALL japanese people like that ??"
"Would you like some tea means plz leave now"
Me : "oooh!.. its up to THAT level !"
(EDIT)
side-note : WAW! *314* likes in ONE WEEK ?!..
thats almost half how many likes Shogo himself got on his comment in *8 MONTHS* !!
YOU, guys, deserve 314 likes EACH in return !
Doomo thank you gozaimasu ! 🥰👍
This is a completely different level on itself wtf
Right? It's like tatamae turned up to 11?😅😅
that was exactly my thoughts
See the attitude comes from there, thus in Kyoto is where the true masterpieces are.
Aren't all human like that ? Nevermind....
I love your open mindedness and willingness to understand other people and share your insights. You seem like a very kind and generous person. Thank you for your videos.
Lol Kyoto sounds A LOT like the American South, especially the snide remarks. "He's so energetic" is very close to "Bless his heart" lmao
This kind of double faced lingo is also common in south Asians.😑
@@lunastella2323 Really? Like Bangladesh?
Nah nigga in the south we say stuff to ya face atleast
@@lunastella2323 its common in all imperial cities
But without the weird people who try to hunt down bigfoot
Kyoto: "You young, uncivilized prefectures..."
Tokyo: "Okay, boomer..."
Now they have a saying Okay binky.
@@mikefowler301 whats binky ?
Me being born and growing up in Tokyo then having to move with my mom to live with my grandma in Kyoto city 😶
😂
Wow. Funny.
I actually didn't do too bad on the "Kyoto language" quiz, but then I do live in England 🤣 another old culture developing a passive aggressive or otherwise roundabout way of telling you to piss off.
You are right. I thought so too.
Yes I agree it's a lot like the south here in the USA. People tend to be indirect
I had such a hard time in England because I could never tell if they were actually engaging with me or being sarcastic. Scots weren't like that lol.
I like how you show not only show the negative aspects of a behavior, but also how it probably evolved in that society for a practical or even "kind" reason. I'd love to brush up on my Japanese and visit Kyoto again 😊
I was lucky enough to spend a year studying in Kyoto; wonderful experience. I loved cycling around finding new places. Many people say Japanese in general are two faced but I think that is just how they have to behave to fit in at work. You can meet real people if you stop by your local stand bar.
Another common hidden message when speaking to Japanese people is when they say “sugoi” すごい to you if you do some kind of trick or talent - or even speak a little Japanese. If it’s excessive, then they are pretty much humoring you at that point.
Kyoto: "You have such a nice watch."
Me : "So do you. But yours are nicer."
:P
Japanese uno-reversecard
*cue awkward silence and glances*
*stare each other
Translation: Shut up.
No you shut up first. Lol.
The problem I would not look at it and say thank you.
In Poland when someone offers you a tea it's also sign to go home (it is the final part of traditional diner also) of course in Poland you first drink that tea that was offered and then leave. It is an old tradition not a lot of people do that now, but I think it is polite way of communicating that you have enough of socializing for day. We also say that something could happened "po herbacie" Which means after the tea and it means that it is to late to change what already was done.
There is a city in Maharashtra, India named Pune which has the same reputation among other cities in the state. Fun fact: to celebrate Indian-Japanese diplomatic relations, a garden has been built in Pune inspired by the Koraku en in Okayama. It's called the Pune-Okayama friendship garden
Yeah, I too heard that Pune culture is like that.
Lol, those brutal questions, in south japan, we’ll just say ok, I’ll have another cup of tea lol
Sounds like I belong in south Japan. I'd be thinking "That's nice they're enjoying my company and want me to stay" YES I'd love a cup of tea, thank you!
Huh. It is very different from where I live. In Vietnam, if someone ask you to have a cup of tea mean they would love you to stay to discuss sth, or asking whether you want to have few trips with their bong. Especially that bong part, you should skip it 😏😏 trust me, cuz it doesn't mean anything.
By that I’m assuming you mean Kyushu?? Or Okinawa, where everyone is just chilling by the beach with tanned lines boys and girls and some even call it the paradise of 南国 😆
@@J374338 well Kyushu, but my family is from the Amami area
Of course , on a visit to a Zen monastery "have a cup of tea" would take on an entirely different contextual meaning. . .
While I was visiting Kyoto I hiked up the famous Fushimi Inari-taisha trail of torii gates. I got winded on my way up and decided to take a short break on a bench outside one of the smaller shrines on the way up. An old lady was sweeping around the shrine and I noticed she was glaring daggers at me. I got super uncomfortable and quickly left. I guess she didn’t want me on her bench… 😅
It's not so bad. She didn't beat you up with that broom, or worse, mention the watch or offer some tea.
glaring daggers xD
Visited Kyoto several years ago for a few day as a pure tourist. Didn't have any meaningful interaction with local people but what I can say about Kyoto is that it is very beautiful and extremely neat. Everything is just exactly how it is meant to be, tidy and elegant. In fact it is so perfect that it felt literally unreal. Later I learned about Kyoto's reputation and I now kinda understand why I had that feeling.
It's really hard to understand Japanese way of being. They're great at team work, and caring for the well-being of the over all.
But their indirect way of communicating must lead to a lot of misunderstanding.
Oh, like the time my aunty complimented the pattern on the plate during dinner. (Not quite) Apparently she was asking for seconds. We're Malaysians btw. 🇲🇾
Kyoto is the place in the world I want to visit most.
I love the traditional side of Japanese culture and the Azuchi-Momoyama period architecture.
I'd much rather tour Kyoto than Tokyo, which I feel is far too modern.
Good to get some knowledge of the etiquette within the city, so I can be respectful when I am there one day.
Shogo when you said it means..shut your kid up..made my day...you do have a tiny bit of comedic timing that is perfect to me..even though you were being so serious..it made me smile
Thanks for this. I visited my friend who worked in Kyoto(she's not from Kyoto but Hikone) and we had an "exchange" with an older woman and afterwards my friends was aggravated and made snide comments about how the woman talked to us. I didn't get it, my Japanese is crap but my friend mentioned something about the way people in Kyoto don't say what they mean. This video felt like a puzzle coming together.
Don't mind me asking these questions.
1) Do you consider Japan as a highly developed and advanced country ?
2) How would you personally rate Japan (from culture to technology, architecture, food, local products, scenery/landscape, standard of living/quality of life, etc.) on a scale level of 1 to 10 ?
3) What is your overall impression with the Japanese people ?
4) If you have 3 words or more to describe Japan, what would it be ?
there is a very similar "tradition" in Serbia where your host will subtly point out that you should leave by offering you a cup of coffee. That coffee has come to be known as the "sikter" coffee, which means "get the hell out"
Siktir git , huh? Sounds really funny!
@@mehmeterciyas6844 see, i should have known what it originally meant
Hah, so Japanese do know what sarcasm is, but only Kyoto ppl use it.
Maybe we believe they don't because of kyoto
This isn't sarcasm, it's supposed to be straightforward communication if you can "take a hint." I lived in Kyoto for 6 years and with that length of time you learn that you have to always be on the lookout for the hidden meaning behind people's words. If you can't, you're going to find yourself suddenly without friends or out of a job, so you have to be scanning people's language very actively for the hints they are trying to drop. It's very serious, not sarcastic, and if you miss the point you can find yourself in for a rude awakening. This is why outsiders consider this style of conversation to be frightening.
Kyoto people aren't cruel or anything, but they're in a kind of conversational "Cold War" where hidden meanings are very important. This is just part of living there. As Shogo said, many people living in Kyoto are not Kyoto-natives, but everyone there participates in this language game to some degree or another, with the old-timers doing it the most.
Btw, Japanese people can absolutely be sarcastic, it just doesn't have anything in particular to do with the Kyoto style of conversation.
More like Hypocrisy
@@ponysoldier6770 do you even know what hypocrisy mean?
It's interesting to learn about Kyoto's indirect conversation styles. I think it should be possible to be direct with what you want to say while being polite and respectful of the other person. It's all a matter of tact.