My Harbeth Story
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2024
- Defects in the Radial driver are unacceptable at such high prices for Harbeth loudspeakers. As a buyer and user, I recommend that the Harbeth factory pay attention to the defects shown in this video and increase the level of quality control.
P.S. The poor quality of the Radial drivers was noted not only by me. There are at least two more cases of a similar problem, here forums.whathifi.com/threads/h... and here www.audioreview.com/product/sp... are the same customer reviews. This is a serial defect in Radial drivers.
Thank you for reporting. Was considering this speakers. And its not the defect itself, its the handling of the case.
I had experiences on the Harbeth User Group with Shaw that were exactly like Craig's below. What put me over the edge was when, after listening to Shaw blow-harding about how speaker cables couldn't possibly make any audible differences, Harbeth came out with Monitor 30's and P3's using "Special OFC internal wiring". Hmmm...I've since moved on to Graham Audio LS 5/8 speakers and have not looked back.
Thank you for your posting. You pay so much for Harbeth made in UK and such poor QC. Meanwhile many highend speakers such as Wharfrdale made in China QC is better. Not acceptible.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences,
I'm not sure I'd classify the issues as a defect, if they don't affect the sound, but it is certainly less than perfect quality.
As a Brit it makes me really angry when we manufacture items that aren't on par, we really could learn a lot from the German's in that respect.
Quality control equals customer satisfaction, regardless if it affects the sound or not.
Just wait until you see what a car made in the UK looks like.
Looks like you got a serial defect from Harbeth. Here's a tip about the same issue. Apparently, Alan Shaw is not worried about such trifles.
«I took them out of the box and inspected them under light and what do I find? I find these whitish marks/fingerprints on the speakers. They did not rub off with a cotton cloth. They weren't from me as I used cotton gloves. They were actually embedded in the varnish itself. Okay, perhaps they are faint but they are there. Enough to bother someone knowing they were there. One speaker has 4 of these marks/prints on the side. The other speaker has about 6 marks/prints on the back of it. One clearly looks just like a thumb print. Also, one of the speakers binding posts has an unfinished machined mark across it. I don't think any of this is acceptable. I expected higher standards over at Harbeth. Now, who picks speakers up while they are still wet from being varnished? Furthermore, who signs off on them as being a good enough pair to sell? Well, I know, I have his intials, but I won't say it here. Frankly, you would have to be blind to sign off on those. Maybe my stadards are too high? Maybe I should be a Harbeth inspector? LOL»
forums.whathifi.com/threads/harbeth-speaker-issues.107871/
Funny, that comment above is my comment. Thought it looked familiar. Thanks for sharing. ;) Anyway, just so everyone knows my dealer exchanged that rosewood pair for a new cherry pair. They inspected them before hand. The cherry pair I now have are flawless.
The price for the speakers is insane for sure
This is quite shocking. Harbeth are insanely over priced. I would expect them to be without blemish, or they would go straight back. Personally i would much rather have ATC. You wouldn't get such dire customer care from them
ATC are the best.
This stuff is very frustrating. I feel for you. I did just watch a Harbeth “documentary”, and apparently these drivers are literally assembled by hand. So on the one hand (no pun intended) you have people touching all the parts and using glue, etc. to create the driver. But on the other hand you have people touching, and hopefully with great care and respect hand-assembling every single unit, and thus would hope there was some level of QC on every single unit. I mean hand-assembly should mean something, and I would expect better just like you. On the other hand, sometimes it’s maybe better not to inspect. Still, it is unforgivable that they give you a second unit with glue marks AND a separating surround.
I have an issue with my Naim streamer, in actual performance not appearance, but it still feels similar. Naim units are also apparently hand-assembled by elves in England, like Harbeth speakers, thus very high-priced. Problem with them is they don’t respond to emails. Their user groups, as are most, are filled with apologists. It’s like people worship the brands. It’s disgusting.
I was getting interested in Harbeth. Maybe not, now 🤷🏻♂️.
You must return for a perfect replacement. I hate every company say “our product are top” but don’t give any focus on their product
I have a pair of 14 year old Harbeth SHL5's which have been kept in a UV free and low humidity room. The veneer started to split on the sides and top. i strongly believe the defects were already there when it was brand new cause i remember when i ran my palm across the surface then, i could feel the undulations. It sucks for such an expensive item and you'd think they can get something as simple as the veneering right. Other than that it works perfectly. Yes there are stains and scratches on the drive unit but since Alan Shaw discourages owners from removing the grille, it is a problem solved.
I try to listen to Harbeth 30.2x but with this story, I'm suspicious… I don't understand this lack of respect for customers, of a hi-end brand.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Can’t speak to your issues. But the constant changes in model designations is so clearly a way to keep driving up prices for marginal gains. Harbeth built its reputation as a cottage industry company that cared. The success appears to be changing their focus.
I have been a Harbeth user since early 90s & have owned at least 5 to 6 pairs of Harbeths & things like glue stains on the shiny radial cones are a common sight. Almost every single harbeth radial driver has glue stains. I chose to remain oblivious to the slight comestic defects becos i like their sound so much. I remember once when i was at the dealers with my friend who inspected his then brand new M40.1 in beautiful rosewood. However, when he removed the grille of one of the 40.1, he saw a huge glue stain smacked right in the middle of the shiny radial driver. He was upset of cos but the dealer simply used a cloth dipped with alcohol & tried to remove the stain there & then. Well, the stain was more or less removed but i could see that the owner was rather concerned. This was afterall a brand new speaker out of the box & it got seriously “molested” even before he took it back home. Well i still have a pair of SHL-5 but its not been played for 4 yrs. i keep it for nostalgic reasons. My current B&Ws while not as lush & romantic sounding in the midrange as the SHL-5s, are overall far better in terms of transparency, definition, dynamics & PRAT. Well that’s audio. You gain some you lose some. And no there are no glue stains on the drivers of the B&W even though the drivers were made in china.
Been loving Bowers for 20 years. Love my 7.2.4 complete seven series. Complain about Chins all you want, with proper procedure they make pretty good stuff
@@musicman8270 precisely. My B&W CM6S2 are made in china but they are build with exacting standards as specified by B&W & man these bookshelves sound awesome. Many times i feel that they sound even better than the mega buck bookshelves from the big guns.
Nice to see such a candid review. I’ve been thinking about a pair myself but I may reconsider after seeing this.
Not sure why you didn't insist your dealer take them back, inspect another pair and then give those to you? Let your dealer deal with Harbeth. That's what you pay for. I bought a rosewood pair of P3ESR's and the varnish over the wood had a some white marks and actual finger prints in the varnish. Yes, poor quality control to say the least. It was disappointing. My dealer exchanged them for a cherry pair and those were flawless. The dealer makes the difference. Harbeth does have poor quality control in my opinion.
Have owned three pairs of Harbeth's years ago (P3ESR, SHL5, SHL5 Plus 40th) and heard most other models. My SHL5 Plus 40th had an overly thick coat of badly applied lacquer, with white blemishes in the finish. Sold them off quickly afterwards with a loss. The reason quality of cables and amps (must be beefy though as Harbeths are insensitive) do not make much of a difference on Harbeth speakers - they always sound uniformly 'pretty' and good, though often lacking in real details and micro dynamics; like a pretty picture of the music being played - may well be because of the complex crossover composed of dirt cheap capacitors, resistors and iron core inductors, leveling and sucking out micro detail while making them hard to drive. Their 'audiophile' polypropylene caps are still quite cheap. All the while Shaw suggests everyone else is an idiot unless they agree on his antiquated BBC-school of complex crossover design, while insisting on ' adequate power' and ignoring quality in all other aspects of the signal chain. Ah well :-) They still sound quite pretty (and slightly dull - can't fix that).
I owned a pair of harbeth m-30 for 5 painful years until I fired them up far and away from my home. As you pointed out, they always sounded pretty, but it was imposed in all occasions no matter which recording, amp, or whatever. They lacked air in high frequencies and control in the nether region. Bass was an amorphous stuff. Their thin walled cabinets can't attain enough control of vibrations to produce a real reproduction of the low frequencies. To avoid this, you must keep them very far from walls, something almost impossible in a domestic environment unless you are very rich and in that case , you wouldn't consider buying such outdated designs and comparatively inexpensive loudspeakers.
Over Priced!
There is little doubt that social media has increased demand for Harbeths - possibly as much as tenfold; it seems they just can’t keep up. I would never accept the “doesn’t affect the sound’ excuse; its a kick in the face from a company who add great premium for their aesthetic. I was pretty much sold on Harbeths as my next upgrade from my ATCs, but not now - even knowing the internals could be shabby is a big turn-off. Thanks for your efforts; it means a lot.
I will stick with my Lintons... Greetings from Ireland
I have Harbeth's purchased from a very respected dealer. About 2 years later there was several places on the veneer where a stain wore off and you could see wood fill. Harbeth outsources their cabinets so its possible they did not know it was taking place. Because its small and the warranty process is difficult, I decided to keep them.
I own two pairs of Harbeth speakers purchased 5 or 6 years ago, SHL5+ and M30.1, and both pairs have cosmetic defects as others reported. The SHL5+ have little drops of lacquer on the top and the frame slightly bended in one of them. The M30.1 have a repaired little piece of wood in a corner and they smell a little like glue or whatever after several years. But at least the price I paid was a half that it is today and they sound great.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have been looking for a comparison between Harbeth and Wharfelade Linton. I think, I will go for the Lintons. Hope you became happy with your pair nonetheless, though
I got interested in Harbeth as the “real British monitor” because I’d been looking at Wharfedale’s Heritage monitor models. I figured maybe I’d spend extra to get something extra special and original. Well, maybe not. If they aren’t going to be put together any better than Wharfedales then why spend the money. Yes, the bass drivers are very special, but apparently Harbeth can’t manage not to make a mess of one (at least in the case of the publisher of this vid) and many others say they’ve had cabinet issues. I find myself wondering if the even more expensive Tannoys have similar issues.
I bought a pair of Polk ES 20 for 300$ and they are flawless, so, I can understand your frustration for not receiving such a pricey product in perfect condition. As customers, we must sound the horn and hold these companies accountable for delivering substandard merchandise. Thanks for your video!
Scary stuff...
I own the M30.2 XD speakers, have no performance issue and love them. They are the only speaker (and I've tried many) that satisfied my goal in audio performance. That said ... my personal experience with Harbeth as a company and Alan Shaw as a person leave much to be desired. Mr. Shaw is an arrogant "____" fill in the blank with whatever foul term you can generate. I had interactions with him in the Harbeth forum that left me stunned and very disappointed. He was condescending and shockingly aggressive with anyone that has even the slightest disagreement with his authoritarian, myopic opinions about audio. I'm sure this "attitude" permeates the company (how could it not) so it doesn't surprise me that you had a negative experience with their customer service. It's too bad because the speakers themselves are quite impressive ... even at their high price point.
I have visited the hug forum several times. And all I see was a religion called Harbeth, the prophet Mr.Shaw and his believers. They are not open about even the smallest critisim.
@@atillamamis3826 Yep. You got it.
thing is as well as the speaker drivers are meant to be matched pairs based on their frequency response readings so them sending a random driver immediately meanse you have a sub optimal product. Poor show on harbeth. At those prices they should be much more better at dealing with customers warranty issues.
Sorry about your experience - never a good feeling when you spent your hard earned income on something less than stellar. We live in interesting times indeed. I would add that it is more remarkable when we find a company who does provide excellent customer service and address concerns - as that is as rare as hens teeth. I can name several American brands with months of backlog and could give a crap about your frustration (let alone taking it to TH-cam). C19 for some reason has given the service industry a permanent pass *excuse* on the "Service" part of their role. Unfortunately many of these companies see success as an opportunity to be smug and indifferent.
Changing lanes for a moment; I do think we need to take a breath on expecting flawless QC from everyone or everything - or send it to China if we don't. As a car lover, what would have happened to Lotus and Jaguar (before Ford and Tata) if they simply outsourced their car manufacturing? In the end, Harbeth will either exist or cease to exist if they lose too many customers, after all, voting with our purchasing power is the only avenue we have left open to us consumers. 👐
On another note, if you know you are getting something assembled and built by hand, you better be prepared to see human error and flaws - they are impossible to eliminate without removing the human altogether, I have experience in a custom manufacturing plant.
Interesting story, I own three pairs of Harbeths: 40.2 30.1 and p3esr.
The 40.2 I bought from the dealer went back because I was not satisfied with the finish of the case. The 45 degree corners were very slightly open. I got a completely new set. Nothing wrong with it. Have had them now for a number of years and would not know what other speakers should surpass this sound.
Whether there are light scratches in the radial mid drivers? No idea, never noticed. Just listen because they sound great.
But thanks for your video!
Not surprising, that is the quality of British workmen, many experienced workers left during covid crisis, many never returned, so workers with no experience at all were recruited (I am guessing this)... Harbeth must close down its factory in UK and need to move the production to China where work quality is much higher, and further if Harbeth make a better cabinet - these can be sold at one-fifth the present prices, and they can then flood the market. Actually it is lot better to buy speakers made between 2014-2019 which you can get at nice price and the quality would be wonderful.. sometimes 2014 one would be better than 2019
I understand greatly your frustration my friend. In general I have noticed a great decline in customer service by dealers, distributors & most surprisingly by the manufacturers themselves. I have been into audio since the late 70's & the degradation is so clearly evident but maybe it's just a sign of our times. Quite specifically, I've owned the Harbeth 7's, 5's & P3's & have noticed the issues you have spoken about. I like the box design but as you say, nothing special. The truths you're just buying branding at this point & of coarse a lot of fanboy support. This is something all the people that support censorship & politically correct speech when they even kick you off of a forum for stating your experience, I guess they consider this misinformation or hate speech. I'm in the market for a pair of small 2 way monitors & the Fritz Audio speakers have really peeked my interest. Hopefully you will consider selling them & giving your money to a company that truly values their customers, good luck to you.
You sum it up quite nicely: simply not worth the money. Poorly made woofers artificially corrected with massive crossovers full of low quality components.
no way buying from anyone with this level of service..thank you for the video 🙏🏽
I never buy a new car for 6k to 8k price marking with scratch’s or dent. Its lot of money we have put into hifi gear. So pls all the hi end companies should be careful. Such as Harbeth brand this is not expected.
I would say that i am some what fussy, i fail to understand if they , the speakers came like this why he didn't return them straightaway. ans also why Harbeth at the very least did not request them back . a resend fully inspected speakers. also for the cone to become detached, and at this price . i'm not concerned with their feelings ,their quality control needs to be addressed
Thank you for sharing your experience. Often reviews would be paid by companies and hence you never get the truth. It’s a shame that companies like Harbeth have little to no respect for their customers.
I can’t imagine how disappointing and frustrating this would have been. Clearly they have internal issues with manufacturing and quality. To suggest that the product is good enough because the sound is not affected is shocking. Just removed 40.3 from a potential purchase. And as a diy speaker builder, I agree these speakers are vastly overpriced. The box construction is basic and crossover components not what one would expect at this price level.
I have Velodyne Ld2 27 years old. Good as new.
I truly understand your frustration. Possibly the distributor should have opened the box and undergone a checklist?
A bit nitpicky. That can happen with small batch manufacturing.
I just inspected my Harbeth HL C7ES-3's bought new in 2020 they are in perfect condition, beautiful!, as for Mr Shaw and arrogance I can believe that, seen a few videos, kind of makes me regret buying Harbeth for that reason
Demo a 30.2 today and love the sound but after seeing this video and the comments, no way would I buy one. That’s just sloppy work that’s tolerated by the company, and it’s totally unacceptable.
unfortunately, it looks like the made in china >>>> made in uk time has come. I always told myself:
for electronics - Japan or Germany
for speakers - UK or USA ot Germany
to me UK fell out of this
Their Spare part Prices (drivers) are very expensive. And every body learn it…
Thanks for sharing. Good to know. No Harberth for me.
I bought second hand, kef C60 from the80ies, and the pro version P60...with eton polyprop. Cone after 40 years still mint...amazing sound...170euro for the c60 and 300 euro for the P60 with K300 amp ,which is a quad pro amp, this system costed new in the '80ies 3000 euro..!!! It delivers undistorted dynamics over 113db ...so grand piano sounds like real....and closed box gives tremendous bass impuls , i feel no need to put my 18" jbl pro 4345 ...but keep it for variation...no sysyem have it 'all'....but all speakers together i didn't spend 2500 euro...for the price of a pair of small minimonitors , i have a collection of top speakers and electronics...just have to replace ferrofluids after 40 years , and foams fron jbl pro....andcaps passif filters
Have Harbeth has ever reply to this video?
overpriced buy different brand thats it plenty of better option on the market
Sorry to hear of your Harbeth defects and associated problems..
Probably should have returned them straight off for another pair..or got your money back and called it a day..and bought another brand..
I bought a pair of Harbeth P3ESRs in late 2020...a dealers demo set for reduced pricing.. but never pulled the grills off them..I'm kinda afraid to find out they have glue splotches inside...or worse..
..maybe I will though just for kicks soon..as I have a magnet that should do the trick..
Perhaps Harbeth does not want you to pull the grills off though and makes it difficult..maybe this is the reason..glue and cosmetic issues..
..but the P3's do... sound nice in near field.
Ouch! I can imagine your upset. Harbeths are overpriced for North America. However, they have an overwhelming amount of satisfied customers and are undoubtibly a great value in the Uk and provide great speakers generally. I think you are doing a good thing by holding Harbeth to a high standard for everyone, especially for the future of their products, which will be made to an even higher standard because of your courage and unselfishness!
And what did you do to remedy the situation? If you bought them from an authorized dealer bring them back and ask for a replacement pair. My 30.2 XD are perfect.
The dealer sees no problem with what I see. For the dealer, this is the norm. Replacing the driver was only possible because I personally wrote at Harbeth. Harbeth didn't want to do anything at first either. I told all this in the video.
Another arrogant UK company))
I’ve tried the proac speaker and it sounded absolutely the opposite of what all the reviews online claim- tried with different amps and placement.. i thought they are defective. 1500£ speaker uses £25 twitter and sounds worse than than little desktop klipsch for 200. So had it returned after 2weeks spending £45 for postage.
Manufacturers and dealers take note:
TH-cam gives a platform to disgruntled customers.
HiFi enthusiasts can tend towards perfectionism.
Sure you can't hear visual flaws, but they make you question the details you can't see....
Maybe it's time for Harbeth to outsource manufacturing to a company with flawless QC?
The dealer should have replaced these without blinking, unless of course it's the level of "craftsmanship" he expects from Harbeths. That would be sad.
🎶🤔🎶
Customers expect perfection when paying that much $$$.
I’m in line to running the company 😅sorry.
they sound great tho..
OMG those cabinets. The price. You kidding. Anyway, harbeth speakers are like their British cars. Overhyped, and overpriced.
Sir, go for KEF, you won't go wrong again.
my ls50s and ls50 wireless 2 are built like tanks
@@V1ralB1ack I have both too, very satisfy and using as the reference for my hifi system.
Still, you bought them instead of lets say a visually perfect focal. You could have bought a clinical perfect German studio monitor like Neumann. But you still chose a handmade harbeth. And you bought the last pair so you saw them before you handed over the money. You should return them if you are annoyed and furious and request a refund in such a case In future.
şu yaşıma kadar hiçbir japon üretım bır markanın ve usa de dahıl malının arkasında durmadığını görmedım kalıte asla tesadüf değildir.
Seriously
After watching the video I made the same observation as you.
I ordered a Harbeth M30.1 Rosewood pair.
For one of the speakers the placeable wood was slightly damaged that it was covered with varnish to the touch we feel the small crevice and for the other speaker the underside of the body, the varnish was slightly scratched due I think to the screw of speaker tightening or other.
Quality control is really off the mark if it hasn't been too obvious.
Considering the price of these harbeth the end customer must have for his money a minimum aesthetic.
I checked the woofer no problem, no glue stains or scratches.
Mini Cooper is not like a Mercedes Benz.
Its a BMW 😂😂😂
Ever see a British car? About the same level of workmanship.