Great info. When I was a teenager in the mid-80s I was told to stand over the frame and if I could lift the bike one inch that was the bike size I needed. Stem length was determined if you could see the front hub while seated. If the hub was in front of the tip of the stem, your stem was too short, if the hub was behind, the stem was too long. If you couldn't see the hub, it was the correct size.
I like your method better. At some point you get paralysis by analysis I think. If you're doing 200km a day well then maybe you gotta get it right as possible.
MOST IMPORTANT BICYCLE VIDEO ON THE INTERNET ALERT! and explained with such clarity. Top job Michelle and good work on the "fancy lines" post-prod guys :)
Really well explained 🙌 many points put across here that are usually misplaced, aren’t as clear or missing in terms of the effects on a bikes personality and fit in other articles I’ve read. Great guide to understanding geometries.
I'm old enough to remember these things called bike shops. We used to be able to go there, get advice and test ride the bike to see if it fitted well. These days you need a degree in physics so you can decide what to order when buying online.
I agree, Seriously this shit is so dumb, ride your bike and tune it as to what’s comfortable to u, find a local bike shop that’s cool and find your self a community bike shop we’re they got bins on bins of old parts u can swap onto your bike for peanuts this video says so much yet nothing at the same time
I’ve got a physics degree and, while I understand the concepts, this doesn’t help me much in buying a bike. Unless you have a bike that’s already close to what you want it wouldn’t be safe to order online. You really need to be fitted and to test ride it. It’s the same problem as buying clothes - you just can’t tell until you try them on.
Thanks for that. Bike geek geometry is excellent once you know what measurements you desire to replicate. I am amazed how 1° or a couple of cm can make such staggeringly large differences to handling and fit. Again thanks, cos this is fiendishly complicated subject matter
Thank you! Re complicated subject, we cut out my miniature rant about not getting bogged down in X effect on Y affect on A effect on B as we'd be there all day - think in this case best to focus on the topline numbers!
Good to know the specs from a dimensional point of view, but as I think you mentioned getting a personalized bike fit from a good shop is the most practical.
Thanks a very well spent 14 minutes! I will be sharing this with all my cyclists friends looking for a new ride. I learned so much, but I might have to ask my friend who works with slide rules what it all means.
best video on bike geometry. i just bought a Masi expert CXRc 49 seems to fit me at 5'5". the geometry is similar to an enduranc and CX/gravel. BB drop is 70cm BB height 281cm. hoping it is stable at slower speeds and according to your video will hold up well in the mud
I am so so thankful to your for creating such lucid ... super organized video. I plan to buy a bicycle and have seen so many videos and your is perhaps the best.
This was a fantastic video - extremely informational. I will be saving it for future reference and plan to get measurements of my current bikes to see how the align with each other. Thank you for this!!!
Thank you 🙏 so much for this video! I am hiring the front wheel with my front foot every time I turned on my REI ADV1.1 and wondering why!! Great explanations
Such a beautiful video, very comprehensive but precise, no bullshit talking, i had to pause and take notes, amazing job done with so many examples to make it easier!
A measurement I've never heard discussed, but think is possibly the most important, is distance from top center of saddle to center of front hub in a straight line. Set your saddle height first. Then set your saddle setback according to the distance from your front hub that you had on your previous bike that you liked and were comfortable with. Then, try to make your bars continuously obscure your front hub as you sit in the saddle and lean forward in the drops, or sit up on the hoods, and while transitioning through the whole arc. Your setback over the BB is irrelevant. Bike fit is mostly preference, comfort, and style.
A well made video to propagate big name bike maker marketing monbojumbo All these originated from the idea of integrated this and integrated that. We used to have the option to change out stem, handle bar, fork etc and bike makers hate that. So thats that.
Not to be complicated . What if some needs something in-between ? I feel like the answer might not be as simple as split those numbers in half .. The bike that will suit me , have to suit how I use it . I love speed I do . But I'm a dad of two And I'd like to have a carriage hooked up to the rear , As well as a commuter ! I'm leaning on a gravel bike - but I want to have two sets of tires and rims . To swap out , gravel and road tires . I've been in the country and my old bike is a bit rough now . But I am heading back to the city and I will be shopping for a new bike . Very insightful video , lots to know and learn
👏🏼 excellent explanation thankyou very much. It's a mine field out there but I liked you intro, be honest about the type of rider you are. I'm not flexible not that strong so a gravel/endurance geometry will be better for me I think. 🙂
Good video; some sizes aren't always the same. Also, try geo comparison websites. And good points about type of bike, your riding, and the roads you ride on. I feel too many people simply copy what they see the pros on TV - and end up on unsuitable bikes.
I think there is a mistake in the video. It is a common one too. Less rake means longer trail (the left point moves more to the left) and more rake means shorter trail (the left point moves more to the right).
8:13 My understanding is that Steeper Head angle and/or more Rake gives less Trail, and Slacker Head angle and/or less Rake gives more Trail. More the Rake, nearer the contact patch to the Steering Axis. Steeper the Head angle, Nearer the Steering axis to the contact patch.
After all this is looked at, and the bike is chosen, the effective geometry needs to be recorded after a bike is fit to the rider. Reach for example is only part of the position even if the stem is changed. Effective reach should be measured from the nose of the saddle to the center of the bars. This is the riders reach and more important when finding a bike than bike reach. Rider reach directly addresses comfort and position.
This is where i went wrong, i bought an aero bike as i loved the look, then after a year realised i wasn't enjoying riding it, especially over the roads round where i live as its like a rumble strip. Im selling it to buy an endurance bike with amore relaxed geo and larger tyres.
This was so helpful! New to more considered cycling i kept hearing all of these terms and numbers without any idea what they meant. I have a diverge so got lucky with the example bikes used 😉
The only thing I dont like with measuring bikes through reach is that it does not tell you how it feels to ride because it does not say how big the distance from the saddle to the bar is, ie what I would call the human body reach.
Confused...shouldn't switching to a fork with more rake decrease trail on a bike frame (eg. the contact patch of the tire wanders "forward" and closer to the imagined head tube intersection with the ground)? Thus, shouldn't we expect to see the lowest trail in bikes with steep head tube angle and high offset, and highest trail in bikes with slack head tube angles and no offset?
Agree. I think there is a mistake in the video. It is a common one too. Less rake means longer trail (the left point moves more to the left) and more rake means shorter trail (the left point moves more to the right).
Isn't it all just so limited due to the UCI? XC mtb frames are slacker and longer than Roadbikes. I don't see why someone might not want that for highspeed road riding. Especially downhill (68-70 vs roadbike 70-73). Consider how slack motorcycles are and they Handle nicely still. Xc bikes can still be quite light. Gonna have to assemble that bike themselves though. Rigid fork. What stem? Dunno. Road rims and tyres dropbars...or maybe narrow straight ones+ tt bars?. Maybe light mtb rims with fat but slick tyres?
Great timing. I've been doing the measurements on my current bike and wondered about stack+ and reach+. Obviously you need to be able to safely get on and off the bike but how much focus should you put on standover height if there is a trade off for stack/reach on your chosen bike? Or would you change the spacers and stem length instead?
I have been off the bike for a few years while back in school. I am a heavy rider, even when in shape. I used to ride 3K+ per year. I live in Colorado and am looking at building up a bike for Iron Horse and Mt. Evans (now Mt. Blue sky) next year. Could you give me an idea about what geometry would be best for rides with LOTs of veriticle on a road ride? Thanks!
I’m confused about chain stay. If the long CS is stable at low speed how will it handle at high speed. And if short CS is nippier at high speed how will it handle at slow speed? 10:35
This was one of the best explanations on bike geometry I have come across. Definitely sharing this with my newer riding buddies. Good job, Michelle!
Great info. When I was a teenager in the mid-80s I was told to stand over the frame and if I could lift the bike one inch that was the bike size I needed. Stem length was determined if you could see the front hub while seated. If the hub was in front of the tip of the stem, your stem was too short, if the hub was behind, the stem was too long. If you couldn't see the hub, it was the correct size.
I like your method better. At some point you get paralysis by analysis I think. If you're doing 200km a day well then maybe you gotta get it right as possible.
MOST IMPORTANT BICYCLE VIDEO ON THE INTERNET ALERT! and explained with such clarity.
Top job Michelle and good work on the "fancy lines" post-prod guys :)
Really well explained 🙌 many points put across here that are usually misplaced, aren’t as clear or missing in terms of the effects on a bikes personality and fit in other articles I’ve read. Great guide to understanding geometries.
Finally! A common sense explanation to help navigate the myriad of bike/frame geometries and purposes. A big thanks is due.
I'm old enough to remember these things called bike shops. We used to be able to go there, get advice and test ride the bike to see if it fitted well. These days you need a degree in physics so you can decide what to order when buying online.
I agree, Seriously this shit is so dumb, ride your bike and tune it as to what’s comfortable to u, find a local bike shop that’s cool and find your self a community bike shop we’re they got bins on bins of old parts u can swap onto your bike for peanuts this video says so much yet nothing at the same time
I’ve got a physics degree and, while I understand the concepts, this doesn’t help me much in buying a bike. Unless you have a bike that’s already close to what you want it wouldn’t be safe to order online. You really need to be fitted and to test ride it. It’s the same problem as buying clothes - you just can’t tell until you try them on.
I recently bought a bike in my local store, instead of a comparable canyon
Yes! You got front and rear centre correct!
Manufacturers always seem to mix these up with chainstay length and bb to front axle length.
A big step up from your usual quality. Well done.
Thanks for that. Bike geek geometry is excellent once you know what measurements you desire to replicate. I am amazed how 1° or a couple of cm can make such staggeringly large differences to handling and fit. Again thanks, cos this is fiendishly complicated subject matter
Thank you! Re complicated subject, we cut out my miniature rant about not getting bogged down in X effect on Y affect on A effect on B as we'd be there all day - think in this case best to focus on the topline numbers!
The best I’ve seen so far on this subject. Thanks
Great video! Everything I need to know to buy my first road bike this spring.
Having spent hours reading about geometry details, this is by far one of the easiest resources to understand.
Good to know the specs from a dimensional point of view, but as I think you mentioned getting a personalized bike fit from a good shop is the most practical.
Thanks a very well spent 14 minutes! I will be sharing this with all my cyclists friends looking for a new ride. I learned so much, but I might have to ask my friend who works with slide rules what it all means.
She did a great job explaining the angles and making it more understandable... thank you and looking forward to some more videos.
best video on bike geometry. i just bought a Masi expert CXRc 49 seems to fit me at 5'5". the geometry is similar to an enduranc and CX/gravel. BB drop is 70cm BB height 281cm. hoping it is stable at slower speeds and according to your video will hold up well in the mud
I am so so thankful to your for creating such lucid ... super organized video. I plan to buy a bicycle and have seen so many videos and your is perhaps the best.
Just what We needed a very comprehensive and detailed explanation - great video!
This was a fantastic video - extremely informational. I will be saving it for future reference and plan to get measurements of my current bikes to see how the align with each other. Thank you for this!!!
Thank you 🙏 so much for this video! I am hiring the front wheel with my front foot every time I turned on my REI ADV1.1 and wondering why!!
Great explanations
Fantastic video. I will certainly refer to this time and time again.
Very informative and well made video! But it is fromCykling Weekly so I am not surprised!
Amazing video. Thanks for sharing this information.
Perhaps the addition of a video regarding choosing a frame/bike for specific purpose. Look at the geometry numbers and remark on benefits and effects.
Such a beautiful video, very comprehensive but precise, no bullshit talking, i had to pause and take notes, amazing job done with so many examples to make it easier!
Great video! Really enjoyed watching. Very easy to understand and the presenter had a very nice voice and easy to listen too.
Straightford facts and logic my favorite!
Absolutely wonderful lecture on bike geometry and it's importance. Thank you so much.
If you buy a road bike, make sure it has mudguards (fenders) !!
I totally agree Cyril. Riding without mudguards on a rainy day is not the way to go!
Superbly clear and succinct with excellent comparative illustrations for each topic.
Great information, and extra points for using a proper groupset on the bike you've chosen as a prop.
😉
A measurement I've never heard discussed, but think is possibly the most important, is distance from top center of saddle to center of front hub in a straight line.
Set your saddle height first.
Then set your saddle setback according to the distance from your front hub that you had on your previous bike that you liked and were comfortable with.
Then, try to make your bars continuously obscure your front hub as you sit in the saddle and lean forward in the drops, or sit up on the hoods, and while transitioning through the whole arc.
Your setback over the BB is irrelevant.
Bike fit is mostly preference, comfort, and style.
One of best video on bike geometry ever
A well made video to propagate big name bike maker marketing monbojumbo All these originated from the idea of integrated this and integrated that. We used to have the option to change out stem, handle bar, fork etc and bike makers hate that. So thats that.
Great video guys. Well done.
Not to be complicated .
What if some needs something in-between ? I feel like the answer might not be as simple as split those numbers in half ..
The bike that will suit me , have to suit how I use it .
I love speed I do . But I'm a dad of two
And I'd like to have a carriage hooked up to the rear ,
As well as a commuter !
I'm leaning on a gravel bike - but I want to have two sets of tires and rims .
To swap out , gravel and road tires .
I've been in the country and my old bike is a bit rough now .
But I am heading back to the city and I will be shopping for a new bike .
Very insightful video , lots to know and learn
This is very VERY informative!! I’m using a Ridley Xtrail cyclocross and been considering getting a fast feel roadbike. Thankx
👏🏼 excellent explanation thankyou very much. It's a mine field out there but I liked you intro, be honest about the type of rider you are. I'm not flexible not that strong so a gravel/endurance geometry will be better for me I think. 🙂
Good video; some sizes aren't always the same. Also, try geo comparison websites. And good points about type of bike, your riding, and the roads you ride on. I feel too many people simply copy what they see the pros on TV - and end up on unsuitable bikes.
This was great, very helpful thanks.
Very well explained! A must for those trying to understand geometry between two different bikes, like myself ;) Thank you!
Thanks Michelle. This was very clear and lucidly explained
Very informative, I'll definitely link this video if someone needs any help with bike geometry
I think there is a mistake in the video. It is a common one too. Less rake means longer trail (the left point moves more to the left) and more rake means shorter trail (the left point moves more to the right).
that was a lot of information in a small timespan. amazing work, great explanations.
this is very useful video thank so much guys
Really good explanation in the middle of a sea of bike-sizing waffle
Very good . Excellent
8:13 My understanding is that Steeper Head angle and/or more Rake gives less Trail, and Slacker Head angle and/or less Rake gives more Trail. More the Rake, nearer the contact patch to the Steering Axis. Steeper the Head angle, Nearer the Steering axis to the contact patch.
My thoughts too. I think the calculation was wrong on this one. More rake moves the axle forward - reducing trail.
Excellent video very comprehensive. Thanks from Ecuador
After all this is looked at, and the bike is chosen, the effective geometry needs to be recorded after a bike is fit to the rider. Reach for example is only part of the position even if the stem is changed. Effective reach should be measured from the nose of the saddle to the center of the bars. This is the riders reach and more important when finding a bike than bike reach. Rider reach directly addresses comfort and position.
Great video
Very good video, better than several others found on the net: well done eventually somethings with a bit of in depth analysis
wonderful video! thanks
Thank you for a great video. Very nice quick introduction.
This is where i went wrong, i bought an aero bike as i loved the look, then after a year realised i wasn't enjoying riding it, especially over the roads round where i live as its like a rumble strip. Im selling it to buy an endurance bike with amore relaxed geo and larger tyres.
Well articulated. Thank you. That bike and Campy group looks very sweet.
Hell, yes. Was going to say the same!
Really useful video, neatly explained - thanks CW!
very clear presentation.
Next video how to work out geometry to build your own frame?
You couldn't explained better, thanks, cheers
This was so helpful! New to more considered cycling i kept hearing all of these terms and numbers without any idea what they meant. I have a diverge so got lucky with the example bikes used 😉
Very very informative video. Thanks a ton for bring crisp and to the point. 👍🏽👍🏽
Great video Michelle 🚴♂️
Excellent ❤ super tutorial
This is great information, and very well presented..
Really excellent video, clearly presented. I think I get it now...!
Looking good Cookie !
Great report 👍🇺🇸
Thank you for the excellent video!
All measurements in the USA are published in centimeters 49, 54 CM
Very clear and helpful!
thank you
What You Need To Know Before Buying A Bike - Ideally you should know how to ride it :) Joking aside, thanks for a great vid!
Great explanation thank you
TOTALLY CONFUSED!
Excellent.
lawl I pulled up a photo of the Chamois Hagar when she mentioned head tube angle right before she pulled up the same photo 😅
Best explanation ! and i've seen a lot ^^ty
Really appreciate your effort
Great video. I certainty learned a lot
Excellent explanation
The only thing I dont like with measuring bikes through reach is that it does not tell you how it feels to ride because it does not say how big the distance from the saddle to the bar is, ie what I would call the human body reach.
Now we need a bike fitting video so you can go to shop
And fit yourself
Great introduction
lol this helps alot cus iam tryin to buy new carbon fork and i didn't know my head angle in my roadbike
Excellent !
Well done !
amazing job! 2023
excellent
My head hurts but that was really helpful
Confused...shouldn't switching to a fork with more rake decrease trail on a bike frame (eg. the contact patch of the tire wanders "forward" and closer to the imagined head tube intersection with the ground)? Thus, shouldn't we expect to see the lowest trail in bikes with steep head tube angle and high offset, and highest trail in bikes with slack head tube angles and no offset?
Agree. I think there is a mistake in the video. It is a common one too. Less rake means longer trail (the left point moves more to the left) and more rake means shorter trail (the left point moves more to the right).
What about geometry for tt bike? Is it the same
Isn't it all just so limited due to the UCI? XC mtb frames are slacker and longer than Roadbikes. I don't see why someone might not want that for highspeed road riding. Especially downhill (68-70 vs roadbike 70-73). Consider how slack motorcycles are and they Handle nicely still. Xc bikes can still be quite light. Gonna have to assemble that bike themselves though. Rigid fork. What stem? Dunno. Road rims and tyres dropbars...or maybe narrow straight ones+ tt bars?. Maybe light mtb rims with fat but slick tyres?
Great timing. I've been doing the measurements on my current bike and wondered about stack+ and reach+. Obviously you need to be able to safely get on and off the bike but how much focus should you put on standover height if there is a trade off for stack/reach on your chosen bike? Or would you change the spacers and stem length instead?
very informative
Maybe wanna look up who Sammy Hagar is, lol.
8:16 Shouldn't it be "less rake = more trail" and "more rake = less trail"? Otherwise, love all of the explanations and examples!
I have been off the bike for a few years while back in school. I am a heavy rider, even when in shape. I used to ride 3K+ per year. I live in Colorado and am looking at building up a bike for Iron Horse and Mt. Evans (now Mt. Blue sky) next year. Could you give me an idea about what geometry would be best for rides with LOTs of veriticle on a road ride? Thanks!
I’m confused about chain stay. If the long CS is stable at low speed how will it handle at high speed. And if short CS is nippier at high speed how will it handle at slow speed? 10:35