Doom 64 - An Overrated Masterpiece Of Coal
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Doom 64 is often heralded as the missing piece in the classic Doom saga. But does that mean it's a completely perfect masterpiece? Well...
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▶Sources:
archive.org/details/n64magazi...
www.metacritic.com/game/doom-64/
www.gamespot.com/reviews/doom...
▶Videos:
Longplay of DOOM (1995) • Longplay of DOOM (1995)
Keys vs. Switches in Doom - Problematic Opportunities • Keys vs. Switches in D...
How DOOM 64 Continued Playstation Doom's Legacy - REVIEW • How DOOM 64 Continued ...
Thanks for pouring that blood from your eyes.
0:00 Preamble
2:10 The Good: Graphics and Audio
7:25 The Bad: It's not made for the N64
11:14 The Bad: Cryptic progression
17:12 Conclusion - เกม
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GermanPeter: "Pain Elemental now spawns two Lost Souls at once."
Civvie 11: "WHY WOULD YOU DO SOMETHING THIS EVIL?"
Me: " They are Demons what did you expect"
Tbf they needed an enemy that creates a spike on difficulty for compensate the lack of Arch-Viles, and the new Pain Elemental works very well at that.
The new lost souls are also way more dangerous but also easy to kill than before so they're better at being a glass cannon.
Saying the levels didn't do anything that custom WADs for Doom 1 and 2 didn't is clearly untrue - the engine had features in terms of moving geometry that the vanilla Doom engine didn't support. The Doom engine source release wasn't until a good 6 months after Doom 64 launched, and source ports with more extensive modifications to the engine and level format weren't until years later.
Honestly it seems this guy did minimal research
Oh god that Unholy Temple switch puzzle. I didn't even realize I was putting in the combination wrong (or that I was supposed to be putting in a combination at all!), I thought I just had to fight waves of enemies, so I rekilled those two Hellknights over and over.
I HAD TO PRESS THEM IN A CERTAIN ORDER????
@@MintVR_YT haha right? I think this video is the first time I even realized there's a clue. I think I eventually just figured it out through trial and error and killing a lot of Hellknights.
It took me a bit too
Everytime I play Unholy Temple, I always remember the story Bigmacdavis made on his playthrough
Yrb was a simple man, he only wanted ribeye (rby) and beer (byr). It really helps out with that puzzle.
Never have I seen such an inflammatory take on a title, wow o.o
honestly it's justified, it feels like the majority forget the flaws of this game and make it sound like its godlike underrated title
@@thegeekyboi88but on the other hand it's pretty enjoyable with some of it parts, so saying it's a horrible mess that doesn't deserve to be a part of the series alongside RPGs and Doom 3 is the last thing I've expected from one of my favourite TH-camrs, for him to say "hey it's actually ass, you should hate it".
@@Eric_Nomad_Hixtonewhen did he say that?
@@Blankult on the thumbnail.
@thegeekyboi88
because it IS an underrated title. no one says it doesn't have flaws. but it was indeed given the stinkeye for being on the n64 while missing a few enemies from 2.
@3:16 re 'rooms over rooms'... Well, not actually. Cleverly simulated with lifts and graphical tricks, tho. @8:30 re sprinting to the blue key: Try strafe-running, a simultaneous combo of forward-running while strafing sideways. This moves you at an odd angle, but at a speed faster than plain forward running, even on original N64. Also, the blue key's location is random each playthrough, so sometimes you may get lucky and it'll spawn pretty close.
Doom 64 was basically the ROTT game for ID Tech 1 Midway extended the original Doom renderer to it's limits possiblely getting help from Carmack sending over beta Quake ID Tech 2 code for the 3D rendering it's kind of funny barriwed the Trick from unity.
I can't believe the blue key spawns randomly. I played it on the N64 first and it spawned in the same spot as it did in my PC playthrough. I mean, either way, it's scummy to expect N64 players to be able to get over there quickly.
Unironically, its Cryptic Progression IS the reason I adore it so much. It makes me think, makes me explore, it made me befuddled and excited, it made me feel in a way that _HeXen_ made me feel, and I know that some people absolutely hate HeXen for its progression, but cod give me more. (Though I still prefer HeXen 2's thing). It's not a con, _it's what I came for_ in the first place.
I can absolutely see that. I just wish the game was a bit more open about it. I love the cryptic progression in Hexen, but Doom just isn't that type of game. It appears like a straightforward shooter at the start and then morphs into something else.
yooo fellow HeXen fan(s)
I’d love to see a video about your thoughts on modern doom if you haven’t done one already! Anyways this was a great video even if I don’t exactly agree with you on a lot of the points but it’s subjective anyways and I still enjoyed the review itself!
Agreed
I actually found that demon key on my own with blind luck.
Me too. It’s funny I don’t know how either
Shout-out to that level with a pit full of pinkies where there's incredibly narrow stairs on the wall leading out, but they're pitch black so good luck seeing them
appreciate the intro monologue a lot, actually. a lot of my friends consider it easily the best of the classic series, but I'd rate it about on the same level of DOOM 1, with DOOM 2 being above both for me. though, after playing a ton of new DOOM 2 wads, going back to the game where I don't have to constantly deal with revenants and archviles feels quite nice.
Personally i put it above doom 1 but below doom 2.
you may dislike em but theyre both extremely necessary parts of Doom's balance. Before revenants, doom 1 wads just had a thousand meatballs.
Doom 2 is pretty mid. I prefer 64 over it
@@Nikkibuh I don't dislike them in the slightest! it's just that, with the wads I play, they're an extremely common enemy, so seeing them so often can become tiring.
personally though I prefer arch-viles.
@@dotcomgamingd5564 o hey thar o/
I think the main issue is that even with Doom II's extended bestiary its selection of mid-tiers still boils down to cacos, pain elementals, hell knights, and revenants, and out of those revenants are the only one that can fill the role of a shock trooper. I suspect that's why tankier demons (like the nightmare demons in Evi2) seem to be pretty common-they're just as quick as revs without going down in a single SSG shot.
That's one of the things that excites me the most about newer standards like MBF21 (coupled with the related limit-shattering standards like DEHEXTRA and DSDHACKED): modders can now implement fully custom enemies with zero compromises.
i mean, MF DOOM, used some sfx from this game on his most popular song from the album Born Like This, so it atleast had some influence
i freakin love this review of yours! man, finally someone who doesn't make Doom 64 sound "perfect" like many do, it feels like many forget about its flaws you mentioned and overhype the hell out of this game under the excuse of it being "underrated"
its still a great game don't get me wrong, but its good to see someone who actually points out the negatives of this game in detail, rather just another video about "Doom 64 is godlike" and that's it-
I still remember playing doom 64 back around 2005, I was very young and was an Nintendo kid. My n64 collection was pretty colorful and the only games that had blood in them were MK trilogy and Turok. However doom 64 was extremely different from any game I have ever played up to that point, the atmosphere was terrifying , the enemies were ferocious and the levels were so dark. I played it for a maximum of an hour and quit for decades. It was only then around the time Doom 64 was ported to modern consoles that I gave it another chance and absolutely loved it. It felt like reuniting with a bully and turning them into a friend. Heck I remember beating doom 64 around midnight and legitimately crying tears of joy. But I do agree that the game could be better but what we got was interesting, not a masterpiece or better then doom 1 or 2 but definitely deserves credit as a good doom game.
The Yellow Key lowering via a wall outside was what got me for a long time on the N64, The dropping floor trap right before the level end got me the first time and i legitimately got mad. But its not Like Trick and traps in doom 2 didn't have something similar.
Great video! When you were talking about Doom 64's cryptic progression I was expecting you to bring up Level 5 (Tech center). You have to go back and forth so often that no matter how many times I've played through it I still struggle to remember where to go, and it's especially cruel considering it's one of the first levels of the game. I still love Doom 64 though.
I think in Tech Center I wasn't completely burnt out yet. It was only the later stages where I was starting to get tired of the back and forth. I don't mind it in all stages, but you need some breaks.
@@GermanPeter That's fair, Tech Center isn't the hardest level by any means, and judging from your 'keys vs switches' video you've played so many Doom wads that I imagine you were probably quite familiar with that kind of level design.
Either way, the point you made was very clear, and anyone's who's played Doom 64 would likely agree :D
Also, sorry to be a Grammar Pee Baby, but at 11:54 you say 'it's hard to find examples', when I assume you meant to say 'it's NOT hard to find examples'.
@@MrF3legendary Oh no, I meant it that way. The whole game is kind of poorly designed that it's hard for me to pinpoint exact examples. I can mostly just gesture wildly at all the levels and go "...that."
I streamed Doom 64 to my friends while playing it blind... I spent a lot of time apologising for having no idea where to go sometimes but I still had a good time overall!
Also I guess I didn't upgrade the Unmakyr enough (or at all?) because I remember the last boss killing me a good 20 times or so. Like killing me in 1 second flat upon spawning levels difficult lol so I don't know what I did wrong...
There's three keys in three hidden secret levels... The first key gives you the Unmakyr, the second key allowed you to fire a second laser giving you a bit of rapid fire, the third key added a third laser and made the rapidfire so quick, no enemies, not even the final boss, would be able to retaliate as they're stunlocked and turned into swiss cheese within seconds.
The internet using the term "underrated" when they really should be saying "overlooked" pisses me off to no end and I'm glad you started the video taking a stance on this idea
They seem to use it as "I like this game more than other people", which doesn't actually speak for its quality. I love Doom 2 and I'm willing to admit it's worse than Doom 1 in many ways.
Ye, because you're so insecure that you have to back up your hatred towards something people like despite the flaws, that you enjoy when someone else makes a video about it instead of just... Having your opinion. But it would feel not as cool if you wouldn't have a video to reference, when you're about to tell people how inferior they are to you because you're the embodiment of objectivity and truth and how stupid they are, right?
I'm torn on this one because the cryptic nature of Doom 64 makes me not really want to play it all that much but at the same time I respect it because it's supposed to convey a sense of dealing with Hell itself which means it's not supposed to care about whether you're having "fun" or not, in fact, if demons made several labyrinths designed to kill and / or confuse you then this game certainly conveys that very well.
Quick saving various times mid-level alleviates some headaches... such as undoing stupid mistakes like mistimed jumps, getting out of inescapable traps, and barely winning against swarms of enemies with only 1% of health... anything to avoid restarting the entire level and being stripped of all of your weapons
When you can't figure something out in Doom 64, you just gotta look at the automap.
Secret doors are shown in the textured automap, as the floor texture of a secret door will show next to a solid wall, giving you the indication that there's a hallway behind the wall.
The yellow key puzzle also requires you to look at the automap, because trigger lines (such as switches) show in yellow in the line-mode automap. That's a random wall that's marked yellow in the automap, exactly like a switch. That's the indication for you to try interacting with it.
...if the player knows about this. It's never explained to them what the colors on the automap mean. And that yellow key puzzle is the first and only time it becomes necessary to take a look at the automap to figure out something is wrong. Either way, it's a poorly designed puzzle - you are presented with two choices, neither of which really matter. It's like playing Portal and trying to figure out where to place your portals, but it turns out there's a hidden switch before you even enter the room.
Doom 64 never once tutorializes the importance of the map, and it's never required past that point either. Like the puzzle with the buttons you have to press in a certain order, it shows up once and then never again.
@@GermanPeter It's a game from the 90s. This information would be included in the manual, but obviously the rerelease doesn't come with one.
If it wasn't, you were expected to learn about certain things in the game by word of mouth from your friends who had figured it out.
It's more a problem with modern expectations for old games when a lot of their historical context is lost now.
The other games didn't share this problem and people were able to beat them just fine, so it's not like they had no other choice. It's a deliberately manufactured problem.
@@hfc2x "If it wasn't, you were expected to learn about certain things in the game by word of mouth from your friends who had figured it out." Nah fam that's just bad game design then, even back then.
@@aSkyclad It wasn't. Game design just worked like that back in the day. If you didn't read the manual, you'd be missing a lot of stuff, but even children were able to figure this stuff out by themselves. Not because this game was rereleased recently, it means it has to change its own design to please modern design sensibilities, which is why you complain about it, because at this point you're used to expect modern game design.
And just as a sidenote, the reason y'all think Doom 1 and 2 aren't obtuse and confusing is simply because of having played through them hundreds of times to the point you don't really need guidance anymore. But if you've ever seen someone who's never played Doom 1 and 2 before, you'll see how much they struggle with maps like E2M2, E2M7, MAP13, MAP15, etc. Especially if they're not aware of how the automap works (which you gotta admit is not easy to read).
I’d love to hear what you think about any doom games you want, always enjoy your videos
I played through Doom 64 for the first time with the Nightdive developed re-release on PC.
I enjoyed it more than I expected to however, I am in completely with you about that goddamn yellow key "puzzle" in.....I think it's Map 10. I definitely needed a guide for a couple of the more cryptic sections of the game.
That puzzle in Final Outpost hints at what texture to press use on. If you look at the platform the yelllow key is on you'll notice that the top of the platform has the same texture on the wall just outside the room. The texture is not random or unrelated.
Still the only time in the game a random texture is used as a switch, and it's even outside the room. Far too disconnected.
@@GermanPeter I remember figuring that puzzle out when I was like 10 or 11, I remember seeing that texture on the way into the room then I noticed the platform had the same texture and I put 2 and 2 together.
It could've helped a little if activating that texture made a noise instead of being normal-wall silent. Might give players a clue (especially when the door is closed) that something may have changed nearby.
It's great that you managed to do it, but I only did it on accident. And judging by many other comments, I wasn't alone in this. It's a neat puzzle, just poorly implemented.
Still, that's the only time in the game that you have to look at a random floor texture to progress, there is no indicator that you need to look at it either
Still my favorite Doom on par with the first one. At the time my uncle had an N64 and I'd play this and Resident Evil 2 a lot, so I was very much fond of the "eerie atmostphere action game" type of experience. I agree it was unreasonably confusing at times, but I managed to beat it as a kid, so I don't think it was too bad. Besides, it had a plus to it: it made me constantly press use on any walls that seemed even slightly suspicious, a habit which translated nicely to classic Doom for finding secrets.
4:29 this could be because of two factors: 1: one would realistically develop some sort of trauma (likely PTSD) after saving an entire planet from hell itself (one part of Doom 2 that get's either forgotten or overlooked is where at one point, in text that is, DoomGuy, after making sure humans have escaped, just.... sits down and waits for death until humans call him to tell him about the source of the invasion. And not to mention that people tend to forget that ID originally wanted Doom to be more of a horror action, similar to what we got in Doom 3). 2: Before modern Doom the DoomGuy in Doom 64 was a different character, until Hugo changed it to being the DoomGuy from Doom 1 and 2 (which.... personally I don't like this change but then again I dislike the concept of Doom Slayer in general since it does go against "1 man vs hell"), so this was just another random marine just like how DoomGuy was once a random marine, who very likely escaped with the rest of humanity in those ships (Doom 2 story is kinda weird, yeah).
Addressing some of the things in this video:
- You don't have to restart the level with a pistol after death. Just reload the savegame, or input the password you received when you finished the previous level.
- If you recalibrate the N64 analog stick, you can run faster to beat some of the skill-based puzzles. Hold the analog stick fully back, press L+R+Start to recalibrate in this position, and then you can run super fast forward.
- The map does show all walls where you can press the use button, except for some secret areas. This game was made to be played using the map, so there's no excuse to say that a switch was hard to see. And THIS is how we're supposed to figure out that puzzle in the Final Outpost. That switch in the corridor is marked in the map!
- The control scheme can be fully customized to comfortable Turok-style settings (analog move & turn, Z shoots, B&A switch weapons, C left & C right strafe, R runs, C up use, etc). It's not the game's fault if you don't customize it.
- The game is purposely cryptic because one of its main themes is that demons are tricksters, so you shouldn't blindly trust the environment. We must always check out the map, pay attention to distant sounds, pay attention to the timing, and plan our steps in advance so we'll always prepared to retreat. Doom 64 was designed for methodical players who values strategic thinking, not the adderall-infused ADHD TikTok audience of today.
- The level design in the Lost Levels campaign is actually inferior to vanilla Doom 64. The last level in it is laughably easy because the level designers did not know that in vanilla Doom 64, the level No Escape was carefully designed to not let the player hide behind any low walls to protect against the cyberdemon. However, in the Final Judgment level of the Lost Levels campaign, the environment is full of low walls where you can protect yourself against the cyberdemons to kill them without receiving any damage, which is totally braindead.
I know you can punch in the password, but that takes quite a bit of time. Saves aren't a thing on N64.
The player should not be expected to recalibrate the stick in order to play the game normally. That's borderline speedrunning tricks. Same goes for having to remap controls. The standard configuration should at least be playable, but it's not. It's unintuitive.
Having to use the map to figure out which random part of a wall is interactive is never tutorialized, nor intuitive. The puzzle is badly designed because it's hiding pieces the player didn't even know they had to look for. If the marked wall had been INSIDE the room, it'd be excusable. But turning AWAY from the puzzle is the last thing someone should do.
"Not the adderall-infused ADHD TikTok audience of today" Uh huh. I played the game over 10 years ago and still thought it was too cryptic. I'm a fan of cryptic games, heck, I love Hexen. But Doom was never about that, Doom was mainly a shooter, and 64 suddenly wanted to do more but failed the landing.
And they're not even clever about it either, it's just: "Ohh this switch does something, better run through the entire level to figure out what!" That's not a puzzle, that's busywork.
@@GermanPeter "Saves aren't a thing on N64." - They are. Doom 64 does support saving progress in the N64 Controller Pak, which is a memory card that can be plugged into the controller.
Ah, my bad, forgot about that. Still doesn't change the fact that you have to replay the level over, having all your progress get reset.
@@GermanPeter Loading the level from a password or a savegame does not reset the player's inventory. You will still have all weapons, backpack-expanded ammo slots, ammo, health, armor and demon keys that you had during the intermission when the save was created.
I didn't say that. I said your PROGRESS is reset. You still have to beat the entire level again, and lemme tell you - it gets old QUICK. Especially for some of the larger levels.
To me doom 64 is... One of the doom games. I love the weapons and graphics, with the weapons, specially the chaingun feeling amazing (exept the bfg, that bfg feel weaker) and with the graphics looking gorgeous, specially hell. With that aside.. the level design is... Okay, with the exception of some really cool set pieces of course. And the soundtrack... Is honestly not my thing. On quake it puts me off for not matching the gameplay and the same goes for doom 64. Its okay, its a good doom game, i even prefer over doom 3 but nothing out of the line.
Also Something the Brazilian channel colonia contra ataca said on his doom 64 Review, the best way to play it is with the golden eye/perfect dark control scheme, where you walk with the yellow arrows and turn with the joystick
Quake wasn't too brutal and hardcore. It's actually pretty slow paced when in single player mode. So to say that developers missed a spot and would have been better off using something Mick Gordon-ish instead is just you being raised on the newer titles and wanting it to be another boom-shoot without thinking I'd kill it's personality. You can have your opinion but it does make you wrong - making it just another Doom with "fun, haha, chainsaw does vrom" would actually de-face Quake.
agreed on it being better than Doom 3, while not exactly the best Doom game, 64 at least maintained of what the first two games' appeal had... except the music. It's best to consider 64 as the actual "3" while 3 is just a completely different alternate universe being somewhat survival-horror
I always thought “diamond in the rough” meant value/beauty that goes unnoticed
Oh yeah. The way I always understood it was something that's beautiful, but not quite there yet. Like an unpolished diamond.
Wait, I think that yellow key puzzle is what caused me to give up on Doom 64 because I got stuck trying to solve it and didn’t want to use a walkthrough.
14:17 My theory is that this was meant to be the key to the room with plasmagun nearby, and the red key was supposed to open the way onwards instead.
Definitely seems that way, yeah.
I'd love to see you review other FPS's from the 90's, trying to make sense out of the gameplays and maps, comparing it to the competition and seeing what was new at the time
I might make one about Doom 2, because I have A LOT to say about that one.
I prefer its levels and aesthetic, but Doom II’s sprites and speed.
Honestly, I wish Quake had used a similar aesthetic, for the levels, at least.
If you enjoy d64 there's a gzdoom mod called consolation prize which ports it to gzdoom. You can then use it with a gameplay mod of your choosing. Fond memories of MP in d64 with the musket addon for hideous destructor. Got wallbanged by by zikshadow i believe.
when playing on n64 i like to map strafe buttons to C down and C right with run on R and use on C left and map on C up. makes it quite comfortable for me
I first played this game on the switch, while I got lost a few times, I only had to look up the demon keys.
Never got frustrated... aside from the run button not being bound for whatever reason.
Yes, the non-bound Run control is a bizarre oversight.
7:30 games like Goldeneye, Doom 64 and others that have/offer a WASD like controler option via the c buttons and/or d pad play well enough (remember the duel shock for ps1 didn't come out until 3rd quarter 1997)
It's the other FPS games games that suffer because they don't have such a option.
There is a rommhack from last year that adds the extra levels from the remaster to the N64 version, but for whatever reason they didn't add extra control customization, like Auto Run/sprint.
It would be nice if more N64 games had quality of life hacks when it comes to control options. So many games have only inverted or standard camera/look pitch and no way to swap if you personally prefer one over the other.
Worse yet is games within the same company, Goldeneye has so many control options even duel analog sticks via using 2 controlers at once. But then you have Jetforce Gemini also by Rare where your're look is inverted only.
I absolutely love Doom 64 and it is most likely my favorite Doom game (didn't play the new ones yet), but I definitely can't deny there are quirks in the game as it is pointed here, excellent video. 💙
9:32 I'm certain that the Doom 2 Tricks and Traps level teleport has been there for a long time as it is a part of the cooperative multiplayer feature in the DOS version and I remember it being there having played Doom 2 multiplayer in the mid 90's.
Edit: Sorry I remembered this detail incorrectly as the teleporter I was thinking about was in the norther Cacodemon room.
Considering the iconic status of original Doom now I'd say that the review comment of Doom 64 having "vast improvement over the originals" has aged like a glass of milk.
Dunno what version you have, but the teleporter doesn't exist in mine. It's also not there on PS1.
@@GermanPeter I double checked with the CD version from the 90's (can't recall if this was 1.9 or something like that but the WAD md5 sum is 25e1459ca71d321525f84628f45ca8cd) and sure enough you are correct: the teleporter is not in the exit corridor.
I remembered it wrong as the teleporter which I was talking about is in the northern Cacodemon room and it lowers after you step into to the first tile of the exit corridor so you can still cheese jumping these steps but not entirely how I remembered it.
14:38 this exact moment, that really pissed me off when i played it for the first time, never understood why this game was so praised
Doom 64 is a very interesting and on-brand conclusion to the original series. I've had some of my fondest Doomy moments with Doom 64. However, playing it recently, the sometimes cryptic puzzles, the missed opportunity for more thematic hell maps (a scrapped idea from early development), the very of-its-time enemy design, and the absent of a multiplayer component that was unnecessarily removed reveals a wealth of flaws. It has to be enjoyed very much on its terms, whereas OG Doom was a more accessible adventure.
Honestly, I enjoyed Doom 64 more than I enjoyed Doom 2. I do think it's a hidden gem, but it's not without its flaws. I didn't play it until the Nightdive remaster, because I thought the sprites looked weird and it didn't feel like Doom to me, at first glance, on the N64. I didn't need a guide to beat the game my first time through, but getting to the end with no demon keys to seal the gates, and with the Unmaker completely un-augmented? That makes for a VERY hard fight at the end. I gave up and went back to it a month later, on the Switch, and did eventually beat it.
I'm not going to rag too much on Doom 2, Sandy Petersen had a few months to crank out most of the 32 levels himself, but the levels really only had one formula: big spaces, flat walls with one texture, and a whole mess of monsters. There were a couple of interesting levels, but the majority of Doom 2 is just vast rooms. It was great at the time, well received, if criticised for being just more of the same from Doom 1 without a big technological leap, but we're spoiled by the past 30 years of Doom mapping. The progression in Doom 64 wasn't so crazy or cryptic to me, nowhere near on the level of Hexen 2, but, like a lot of games of its era, it's easy to look back now and criticise the design.
One thing about demon keys that annoys me is that if you die with a demon key it’s gone forever but there’s so few with the game and you will probably die at least once before the mother of all demons which is kind of annoying
There's even people who enjoy eating feces, so I'm not surprised someone calls this game overrated. lol
The controls are find on the n64 though, especially with the lack of a y axis. I use the dpad to move, analog stick to look around, and z trigger to fire. L is what I use to sprint so I never had any problem with having to move quickly in this game.
Love the game but some of the cryptic stuff was ridiculous like shooting the barrels in level one
I still remember this more fondly than Doom 2. I don't know if it was actually better with the mandatory obtuse secret BS, but I certainly don't remember being nearly as angry about it.
The main thing that I remember that was worse was that you can screw yourself over for the final boss if you didn't know about the demon keys. I decided to play this on Switch, so perhaps the final boss wouldn't have been so impossible with KB&M, but it was still a major sour point. I do remember finding the boss fight cool beside that issue, though.
I still hold that Final Doom was the best of the classic Doom games, though, which seems to be an even less popular opinion. As I recall they were far better than any of the others in not having every level be a glorified maze, aside from the archvile maze which I actually found quite thrilling. Instead the *combat*, the thing that's the whole reason Doom is so good, is allowed to truely shine instead of being hamstrung by poor level design.
Im on map 22 currently on doom 64 and ive beaten doom 1993 and doom 2016. In doom 1993 I was getting lost constantly, traversing the entire map not knowing where i needed to go. On doom 64, I didnt have that issue, almost at all. The flow of the levels is logical, and in my opinion makes sense and is all the while satisfying. Ive taken a big liking to the level design so far.
I never understood how this is considered "scary doom" when most of the demons have never looked this cute before or since. The Mancubus has a tiny dragon head and the Cacodemon has arms that can hug me back.
And yeah the wider internet really needs to add "underplayed" to its vocubulary. I've seen Earthbound called underrated 😬
id argue Doom 64 is underrated. Before the unity remake there wasnt much praise for it, discussions more so were "remember the weird dom sequel on n64"
Doom 64 is good. But, like Doom1, is very much held back by the smaller monster roster. The later game really becomes a lot of "oh.. another baron..". And there are definitely so very samey level designs, look at you "fortress surrounded by water". But overall it's a good game
What’s up with finishing level 25 then going directly to the boss which you can’t complete without the keys you needed to get from the levels you weren’t able to get to, unless to go to level 1, do the secret exit onto level 32, then unlock those bizarre secret codes, and get into the levels to get those keys for the final boss that I never did because I gave up big time. A huge wtf.
You can beat the game without the keys it's hard but possible. The level 1 secret exit just gives you the ultimate cheat code. You get the demon keys by using the secret exits through out the game and beating those levels.
Yes I've beaten the game without the keys. I was blown away finding out years afterwards finding out these secret levels existed.
You don't understand. Back in the day, me and a friend found this game when I was about 8 or 9. Used. "SHEENA" written on the side. Still have it to this day.
We expected N64 Doom, which would have been badass. Instead what we got was a genuine horror game that we couldn't actually play for very long before screaming about something. The way this game looked on a CRT and the way it SOUNDED...
Doom might have been a little scary, but it was mostly bright, not a whole lot of shading in the palette. Doom 64 was gritty, dark as hell (heh), and things sounded like they were REALLY out for your blood.
I agree with most of your negative points, but also there were no 3D floors in this game. It was very elaborate triplines that would raise and lower certain floors to very convincingly make it look like there were. That was one of the limitations that turned into a feature, and why if you play on a port with jumping, it breaks some maps.
Good video. Mildly misleading thumbnail, I expected more hate. :P
I do understand, I literally played the game on my CRT. I know the atmosphere, which I praised in the video itself too. It just doesn't help in regards to the game's shortcomings.
I only had problem with first demon key level. Shooting switches and running between gaps is annoying, but not a deal breaker. I couldn't figure how to lower the key itself. I spend around 30 minutes trying to figure out what did I missed. Other problem I had is lost souls and pain elementals. Most of the time they're the hardest enemies to survive and I only played on hardest difficulty.
For N64 original all I can say if I can beat Hectic on controller, then the whole game is perfectly beatable for me. Sadly I no longer can play on real console.
Overall I think Doom 64 is an underrated masterpiece. Most of the problems with puzzles you mentioned was never the problem for me. And dying in traps was annoying, but on second try I complete whole level no problem. I only save at the start of the levels.
RE: Around 9:30 - mons reading this, the trick to ze PS1 version is to play the game with the actual PS1 controller, preferably the original D-PAD only controller (partly due to no analogue stick usage in ze gamespiel), which has the best Sony PlayStation D-PAD dammit (the later PS console pressure sensitivity screws with absolutely everything, also another reason to use the OG controlleroni). The default scheme there works fine to me, outside needing to switch strafe with weapon switching. Have cleared "Tricks Und Trappers" semi-easily over there. I know, I like to think my electronic pingas is pretty great with this. Or I'm great from the start. Dunno which.
The blue keycard in the second level isn't impossible on the N64 controller. Not by a longshot. You need to hold down the sprint button, however, or have an N64 controller with a control stick that hasn't had decades of wear and is loose. (Which, from the looks of yours, is severely worn and likely isn't getting the full analog range anymore)
The controller I showed is not the one I used, actually. But even on the other one, it's just too frustrating to pull off. It's possible I wasn't holding down the run button, but that's when I realized that I would have to play the rest of the game with the controller, and if I was already not having fun now, I wasn't gonna have much fun later.
The PC port was a godsend in that regard. Genuinely made the game even playable, same as the PC port of Duke 64.
Havent seen the video yet so i dont know if this is mentioned, but I call this "the sonic cd effect": game is difficult to come by so its seen at face value:
looks like a 5th classic doom game to me! It must be good!
looks like a 5th classic sonic game to me! It must be good!
Then the game gets rereleased on steam and consoles:
Oh actually the level design is a bit cryptic in doom 64.
Oh actually the robot capsule in wacky workbench and others is a bit cryptic in sonic cd.
Having rose-tinted glasses come off can be a huge sense whiplash for many :P
"It's rare, so it must be a hidden gem" rarely is ever the case... I remember the PS1-era DBZ games were highly sought-after during the late 90's/early 2000 era, but once they were reissued... hoo boy, people were not kind to them.
Btw i dont mind either d64 or sonic cd i myself think theyre great
I think that this is one of those games that time fixed. It was overlooked. It was... for a long time, underrated. I think it's just rated now.
Now people know. It's better than Doom and Doom II, it's not better than Sigil or Sigil II, it's a smidge better than PSX Doom.
But it was 1997, so, they had to go all out, to keep the Doom thing fresh, you know, after Quake. I think this is like Hexen or Strife.
Back in 1995 or 1996? Cryptic. With bad controls. Now? You can enjoy it fully, with good controls and quicksaves. So, it's better now than it used to be.
I liked it more than Sigil. I personally was very disapointed with Sigil.
@@eightcoins4401 The MIDI soundtrack is only okay, and the Buckethead soundtrack is just old songs reused for Sigil. It's not a purpose-made soundtrack like Sigil II has, so, it's a bit disappointing in that.
But, the whole thing around it? Culturally, and, the big box edition that I have on my shelf, that looks sooo amazing. It's rare to see big box games full of goodies these days, outside of like limited edition collector boxes that cost too much money.
14:31 you install Doom 64 CE and enable jumping in the options menu
That's not the way the game was intended to be played though.
At least it ain't the DooM 3DO port...
Personally I've got use to the weird design of both previous Dooms and my only gripe with 64 was dying from being "not there" because it seems odd choice overall. At least some hind there's a trap like in Blood "frying room" would do. Combat, music and visual style makes me love the game. Plus in the modern tech day when you can use guides it's not an issue. And honestly somehow i figured out the switch and demon key puzzles you showed on the video just fine... I like it more than Doom 2 still, and equally to Doom 1. And I don't support all the hatred towards the game down in the comments below you have summoned with a clickbait thumbnail and how much you encouraged hatred by replying only to comments full of hate supportively, like you very much wanted to say how those game is the worst in the entire universe but had to play a "good guy with some critique" which have shaken my respects to you I've had for years and while i was recommending your channel to all the friends i have.
I'm always critical of the pieces of media that I love. I'd be much harsher towards Doom 2, and that's my favorite. So if you think me giving a nuanced review that highlights issues other people often overlook means I think the game has no redeemable qualities (even though I said it's better than the other two in many regards), then more power to you.
I have always liked Doom 64 and was willing to listen to a bad review of it here considering this video's title and thumbnail. You explained the game's strengths and weaknesses correctly and that is always something a reviewer should do. You are a good dude German Peter and I look forward to your upcoming content.
i thought Doom 2 was archaic with its progression at times needing to skip a few levels just because i gave up trying to figure out where to go.
I never managed to kill the boss cause the room was filled to the brim with hundreds of demons, no idea what I did wrong so the game remains unfinished.
The game was a 6/10 even tho I really wanted to like it.
"IT'S FUCKING DISGRACEFUL!!!!!!!" - mjc2021 during an outburst in his (long-deleted) review of this game, marking one of the few (if not the only) time(s) he got majorly angry.
What a title. At the time it certainly was underrated, of course Doom fans that would naturally be aware of Doom 64 but the average gamer that may have played a couple Doom games almost certainly hadn't played Doom 64 before the rerelease, assuming they'd even heard of it before. Before the rerelease it absolutely was underrated, lots of reviews called it mediocre at best and it hardly got any attention. It's only recently that it's finally getting its deserved time in the spotlight.
This game made my head hurt. very cool looking though. first playthrough I got stuck so many times
7:42 No way- a floor, drawer, AND Pikachu N64 reveal? Your spoiling us, Pete!
*N̶o̶w̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶u̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶t̶*
I don't have feet! I'm just a little yellow ball, you can be lucky I have hands!
@@GermanPeter Hey being a Yelloball is MY thing! >:(
I wish I had a pikachu n64
@@Curlyheart Same
You did compare some of the moments of progression to Doom 1 and 2, but from my experience those issues were much smaller in previous games. Like, comparing a crack that you can clearly drop in, which shines to a random bookshelf to progress is kinda silly. Same with switches. Yeah, Doom 1 and 2 used switches as decoration, but there is never a point where a switch decoration is classic Doom had an actual switch required to progress. Yeah, those games aren't without sins, but they aren't as extreme as you made it look by comparing.
Still, at least SOME criticism to a game that was kinda forgotten so it's obviously a hidden gem and best in the series in every, even though it has a lot of problems. Hate when people say this like, c'mon, not every lost game is a gem, especially considering they are forgotten usually because they aren't as interesting as they could've been.
Also, want to say something about detailing. Yeah, the detailing is astonishing for Doom.....if you consider that this game released 3 years after Doom 2. 3 GODDAMN YEARS. Like, hello, yeah, it's groundbreaking for franchise but it's not something that wasn't done before and in a lot of ways it worse then something that was made for Doom 2 at the time. I know it looks good but for the time it came out it could've been better. And I know, Nintendo 64 give them a lot of compromises but same with original. But forgiving 64 for not having a few really needed enemies (remember, this game sacrificed a lot of more harder enemies and didn't consider being creative with sprite usage as they could've been (nightmare imp could've be easily turned yellow and be an achie, same as player model could've been remade into chaingunner) but trashing older maps for low detailing, even if they were made using one of the most annoying to work map editor. And some of the new cool interactions, like crushers in map 2, was already possible on the Doom engine at the time, just look at what Hexen could do with it sequences, not even talking about Build Engine. For how much it's new in this regard, it's really weak in other one: being Doom. And don't even get me started on plasma gun, they just murdered this gun.
There is a lot that could be disliked about all Doom games. But at least Doom 1 and 2 had a potential to develop, where Doom 64 was a product of that potential rather then a new start.
I mean, those two instances were ones that I genuinely got stuck on. I didn't know I could even go into a crack in the wall (since there's several around that look identical but are decoration), and I actually ran around the Courtyard, trying to press all the "switches" before I realized they were just decoration. And of course that god damn Tricks and Traps... trap. That one's just mean.
It's just that compared to 64, these are few and far between. 64 does them all the time.
@@GermanPeter well, it probably comes to personal experience, as I mentioned in my comment
I love the horror themed atmosphere of D64 more than 1 or 2, but the level designs get so tedious. You just wander aimlessly forever, trying to find the way through...
Come to think of it though, D1 and D2 have a lot of this same issue.
I guess they had to find ways to make the games feel longer, when you are running at lightspeed the whole time.
I agree, although when it was released I was biased as I'm a PlayStation fanboi. I play it today on my PC emulated and having keyboard and mouse controls makes it way more fun than the shitty N64 controller (that's objectively true, not bias) and since it took the sound from the PS1 Doom, but different levels and graphics, this could have been the real "Doom 3."
I wouldn’t say its the underrated but man this game exceeded some expectations and to me this should have been doom 3. Wish it had a little more content like enemy types but level design are quite good
With all my love for this game I am happy to hear something else for a change. It gets annoying when people talk about doom 64 like it's the best thing ever happened to doom u_u
I think it's a great doom game but I can't imagine what id thought when they made the most complex puzzle and gameplay elements for a game that ran on the N64 😭
Grrr… GermanPeter has a different opinion than me. I’m going to get really mad and type an inflammatory comment about it: “DOOM 64 is the BEST DOOM game and you’re just a HATER!”
In all seriousness, DOOM 64 is my personal favorite of the classic titles (probably because it reminds me of Quake in a lot of respects), but I understand that it’s not for everyone and I respect your opinion, Mr. Peter. Hope you have a great rest of your day, sir.
I can see that! Doom 2 sucks in a lot of ways, and it's my favorite, despite the issues.
gunna be a git gud from me sir, I don't have any of these issues.
The only reason I like it is because of the double chainsaw, god I hope it returns in eternals sequel
Let's look at it this way. There are only 2 horror oriented doom games. This is the better one.
Well I mean level designs were on point, they just were. But it’s all good like what you like.
I am SO glad someone finally agrees with me
Thank you, Peter
i share a birthday with this game
Personally I love Doom 64 even through the issues you showed in the video.
Tbh I learned to love this game with the remake 2020 and the improvements in controlling and lighting. The original is damn dark and it's a mess sometimes to see the way you have to go. In the remaster it's possible to adjust the lights even brighter than the N64 version.
The atmosphere in this game is in my opinion like walking through a nightmare which you have to survive. I agree in the bad things you told about in this game so it's probably overrated. I think with the remaster 2020 some of the issues are fixed and it's great to play with a gamepad.
One detail I recommend is that the Pain Elemental got long black hair. That leads me to sing the good old german song "Du hast die haare schön!"
*Please insert more Dad jokes here*
I can see why some people like it. Personally, I think it's PS1 Doom, just done competently. It's just not my cup of tea.
god that title makes me mad. sorry its just this is my favorite classic doom game
Good thing I didn't mean it :P Do watch the video, I elaborate within the first few minutes.
That's some quality clickbait Peter, and it absolutely worked. 😂
In the wrong way tho. He gathered a lot of people who hate the game here and supporting only them. I think he should have made a more polite talk instead of encouraging toxic people... I think that "hate sellers" are the worst type of TH-camrs despite them having a click and how much people like to see this sort of content more for some reason. It's really easy to hate on something and nitpick everything to hell in actuality. But it doesn't make you better content maker overall. It's a cheap way to get those who disagree and waiting for their chance to shine and to tell people they're inferior to them because hating is somehow "way more correct opinion with no other options and if you do like it, it means you're no brainer and have to be yeeted out of fandom". It's the last thing I've expected from this channel to rejoice....
I hope you can get more support dude, you really deserve it
Yeah, "puzzles" and "go fast" sections is what made this game for me as worst Doom.
And I say it as guy who beated Hexen without guides (I used it only once when I encountered bug(?) and didn't knew how to progress)
Oh, if you really want to drive someone crazy, you can let them play the Super Secret Level Hectic without telling them how to complete it the easy way
🤣
The way to even get to this level is cryptic AF 🤣
Really fun review, the visuals are very breathtaking
Put it this way it's a lot better to what we got from doom 3 for me this is doom 3 shame it didn't get a proper remaster with ray tracing and a lot higher texture's remade from the ground up. I play the doom64 ce version as its the best one but how did you get this game looking so crisp and clean as i am playing this in 4k on my pc and still get crap jagges and have to use 32x multsuppling and still looks but nothing like what it looks from your video unless your using some tweak's to make it look nicer
This is the Steam version, no idea why it's running poorly for you. I recorded it in 1440p and slightly downscaled it.
geez bro, cut your fingernails.
my opinion: i had more fun play doom 64 than the previous doom games, it is more about the level than shooting demons, it is the best looking doom game of them all, its artstyle is coherent and nice to the eyes, though it would have been better if they had made it for the pc or the playstation
also for the final boss, it is alot harder if you weren't collecting the demon keys
and now i have to say it, but holy shit the original doom is ugly
Yeah, this a good explanation why I've gave up on this game.
for me, Doom 64 is the 1st Doom game i ever played in the series. and it kinda holds special place in my gaming heart. if i was those kinda people, i'd probably say something like. "how dare you say Doom 64 sucks. you suck, get gud". but that's not me. but regardless of what people say bout it. i still love & enjoy me some Doom 64
I'm on a similar boat with Final Fantasy 8, it was my first in the series and therefore I have nostalgia bias, but I also acknowledge it's not really the most popular one in the franchise for various understandable reasons. Nobody can take away your enjoyment of something you yourself liked growing up.
yeah. though i guess that, even with my nostalgia bias side of things. some stuff i would still disagree with some people. like, Doom 64 is overrated? no. not really imo. does it suck? again. i think not. though this was also a time i had learned that. most console versions of Doom were based around the PC version, but had something changed here & there. hell whenever i discovered PSX Doom was a thing, i had thought it was made after Doom 64 was released, to have that mix of classic PC Doom goodness mixed with a possible bit of horror. and i'd still play this more so than Doom 3 really. i think Doom 64 least did something to make a whole new Doom experience rather than just port levels from it's PC version. and even with things like, no animations for some of the guns & limited enemies. it did what it could
Bro I played so many FPS on N64. It wasn’t hard. You set the controls to walk and strafe with the c buttons, and aim with the joystick. It’s the Turok control scheme
The problem is many don't have such control options, including Doom 64.
Even with the Rom hack to add the extra remaster version levels to the N64, the person didn't bother adding quality of life addion like more control customization.
@@Hobojoe4464 I’m pretty sure Doom64 had 5 different control options and you could remap every button
1) Players shouldn't need to remap controls until the game becomes playable. The game should be built around the controller and its limitations.
2) Even if you remap the controls, it's still a slog to play using an actual controller, because the game simply wasn't built with them in mind.
@@GermanPeter 1) You have to remember this game came out 25 years ago when FPS button configurations were not yet standardized and established as they are now. People hated the Turok control scheme at the time but in hindsight it eventually it became the best way to play on N64 2) I can’t speak to that but 45 degree running helped a lot for timed events as an example of how people played at the time
I’m not hating I just think context helps
The game should be designed around the controls, the player shouldn't be expected to mess around with the settings until the game becomes playable. This is not a contentious opinion. The intented way for the game to be played should be the most accessible and optimal. For Doom 64, there's not even an optimal way to control it on console.
I only beated it once and after many attempts to replay it i never got very far
So despite owning it on the switch and on steam i obly beated the pirated copy
The game is kinda boring in the end and i especially hate how low the music is so you have to lower the other sounds to gear it even at max volume otherwise you will not notice the atmosphere with is the best part of it
I honestly can't get past level 1 of this game, it's just extremely confusing.
It's my fav classic doom by far
i had much the same issues, never had an n64 or even knew about doom64 then I hear people raving about the pc port/remaster. So I get it and play through a bunch of levels and think "dang console kids had some nice friggin games back in the day", then after a few hours reach some kind of switch puzzle that has me wandering aimlessly causing me to get bored and put the game down. oh well
Im glad someone said it.
First you rob us at the 2014 World Cup Final, and now you trash on Doom 64.
I'm trying to like you Peter, don't make it harder.
I've yet to hear anyone address how horrible the frame rate was on the N64. Back then I appreciated the design... but any console Doom suffered from that... especially Doom 64. This game cannot be rated based on an emulator or a port. It has to be played on the N64 to be judged. In those circumstances despite the art direction, it fails miserably.
I played it; it's fine. Not brilliant, but not unplayable. At least Doom 64's levels are much smaller and less busy than some of the other console versions.
@@GermanPeterI may be being a bit too harsh on it. It's decent and it's definitely worthy of the title Doom.
I guess maybe it is the fact that the shotgun doesn't have the pump action sprites (which I'm glad you mentioned in the video) that made me so mad back then lol
I’ve always thought this game was disappointing in that the color palette for the monsters is atrocious, the levels are lackluster and make no sense architecturally and it just feels like a bad clone somebody made in another country that you’d pick up on the bargain bin at Walmart.
Especially when compared to games like Duke3D and Blood that released around the same time and had so much more in terms of level design and even Quake which was fully 3D.
Although I’m pretty sure I saw it with RTX support somewhere and it actually looked surprisingly better. I still don’t get the hype and I’ve tried playing it on several occasions and it just puts me to sleep with the music that sounds like a combination of a dusty old fan from the 1940s combined combined with audio from the Taco Bell bathroom.
skill diff