The Mystery of the Edmund Fitzgerald
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Learn about the history of the Edmund Fitzgerald. We will be exploring its days of service on the lakes, as well as discussing the mysterious circumstances under which it sunk.
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I've heard the actual recording of the Coast Guard asking the Captain of the Anderson to go back out into that storm. It's chilling! He asks him "Do you know what you're asking me to do?" the Coast Guard just reiterates that they may be the only hope that any of those guys have. Man! That is rough! But he did it! That's bravery!
The Anderson's crew all agreed to go back out.
@@erbewayne6868 If they hadn't the news would have dragged their names through the mud like they still do today.
I know what that storm was like because our house caught fire on the same day. I had to go out onto the roof of our house with only a t-shirt and Levi’s. I pulled my brother out onto the roof because he slept through it because he was an alcoholic at the time. We spent the next few weeks in a hotel. So we watched all the news on the t.v. While they were looking for them. So sad.
They also asked the William clay ford to go back out as well
Ultimate respect to the Captain.and Crew of the Anderson👍
It makes my skin crawl when these people say modern technology makes these ships virtually unsinkable. These lakes are telling you different.
Yeah, only an idiot would call any ship unsinkable. Just like only an idiot would call any building fireproof. Hubris will get u every time.
Saying a ship is virtually indestructible is just asking for it to sink
The only way modern technology can save ships on the Great Lakes is to give them enough info to keep them from going the hell out.
Agreed, given the right conditions any of them can sink.
I don’t think anyone has said that since 1912
This was probably one of the best documentary on Big Fitz ..all theory very well explained and presented..God Bless the Crew and Family of the Edmond Fitzgerald and all sailors who have lost there lives to the seas....You are not forgotten...God Bless you all and rest your soul..
.Very well done.Thank you for sharing..
RIP & God Bless all 29 on board. I think they must have gone down EXTREMELY quickly.
I can't really imagine what it must have been like on board that night.
I've been in some VERY rough seas in the 1980s on an Offshore Pirate Radio station in the North Sea 20 miles off the UK, but I expect that was nothing by comparison to what the Fitz went through.
I absolutely agree with you peach head. Spectacular presentation. Thought no one could top the one with the Edmund Fitzgerald song!!
Yes, peach head, this is the best documentary on the mystery of why she sank; what happened. Incredibly well done and fascinating in spite of it not seeming to be a glitzy production.
@Brenda Harper Very well put!
Yes it is the best doc isnt it? I had been searching for it recently. I watched Gordon Lightfoots documentary and of course how can you see that without thinking of the EF. My ex husb grew up in St. Claire Michigan and imparted his love of the Great Lakes freighters to me. I should have looked here on TH-cam first! Should have known someone would have posted this :) Im so grateful to be able to watch this again. Btw....peach head huh? So do you like peaches? Your from Georgia? Or none of the above?
Documentary made at a time when people were serious about taking care to present multiple views with respect. I miss old style journalism.
The great Gordon Lightfoot Canadian legendary singer/songwriter has passed away on May 1st, 2023. He was 84 years old. May he rest in peace.
He left us all a fictional account that made the Edmund Fitzgerald immortalized in song...
I saw an interview with him and he said he originally wanted to write the song was because of how little press the sinking received , including the misspelling of the ship's name in a newapaper article.
😊@@allencollins6031😢
There's nothing fictional about it. It's written from what is known about the sinking. The closest thing to "fictional" is the main hatchway giving in.
We know
My dad used to watch that pass through the Detroit River goin in between the UP, and Cleveland (w/ Great Lakes Steel in SW Detroit in between). The bravest 29 souls on the Great Lakes went with her that horrible night. God bless those men and their families
When I was a kid we’d watch her go up the rouge to rouge steel now and then ! She was a sight to see!
Why didn't they build the cars in Milwaukee where the steel was?
@@halibut1249 the “steel”wasn’t in Milwaukee. The Iron Ore deposits were all over the north country. The steel mills were in Detroit-birthplace of modern industry/assembly line production-and in Cleveland. Which were both created where they were because of the Great Lakes waterways being the perfect transport routes back to the fur trading days of the 17th century
@@americanaxetoolco2076 that’s really amazing you got to see that! (I was born just south of there in Wyandotte).
@@halibut1249 Before cars were trains.
I have to say, regardless of what documentary you watch, you can't help but mourn for the loss that the families still feel even after all these years. Though humans have overcome most of the obstacles on this planet, Mother Nature and Father Time are undefeated and always will be.
People die in car accidents everyday
but if they had lived, they would be old or dead and no way posting vids to youtube of them doing their version on the Jenna Ortega's wednesday dance.
Mr. Caddell, Humans may have “overcome most of the obstacles on this planet,” but they’ve caused a whole lot more. We are the only animal that defiles it’s own nest with impunity and refuse to acknowledge human activity is destroying the planet. I’ve wondered what in gawds name planet Earth did to deserve the carnage and destruction reaped on it by it’s “apex predators.”
Talk about a power couple!
@@tundrawomansays694 Always a "self-loather" that insists that all others must share in their self inflicted misery so they can at least feel like their not alone with their "issues".
Thank you for posting this. The sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald was a fairly big deal in the Detroit area, which is where I lived at the time. What many non-seamen don't realize is that the Great Lakes are, in essence, inland seas, and every bit as dangerous as, say, the North Atlantic.
Edmund
@@robertyoung3992 he's probably on a phone, mine changes my shit all the time, especially when you type an uncommon spelling of something like a U instead of O in Edmond.
It's got this thing it likes to do now where it puts "oh" in front of random commas. Stupid.
@@robertyoung3992 Thank you for the point-out. Went online and corrected it.
I live in Minnesota rember when the Fitzgerald went down was big news in the Upper Midwest
This was very informative. I don’t know why this tragedy is so fascinating to me. God bless those lost and their families. I can’t imagine their pain.
Never affected me strongly, but I've always found it to be very haunting, and that feeling stays with me every time I hear it to this very day.
I have watched the numerous documentaries on this tragedy. This particular video presents this vessel and crew in an unbiased, factual manner.
I'd have to agree with you on that. Well done video.
This story always brings tears to my eyes since some aboard were not much older than me - I was 15 when she sank, and in love with Lake Erie and boats since I was a young boy. Just a few years ago I was reading a story about Lake Erie shipwrecks, and found the account of a 30-year veteran Captain who commanded ocean-going vessels for most of it.
On his retirement he boarded a ship taking him to his home port somewhere on the Great Lakes. He recounted the story of a violent storm that kicked up "40-foot swells" that actually bared the rocks on the bottom of Lake Erie, which I'm sure had to be terrifying. He made it home, but recounted that he'd never been so scared in his long and successful career, and never sailed again.
Although "The Fitz" went down in what was over 500 feet of Lake Superior water, this seems to be the only scenario that fits the data - the ship. in just a matter of seconds - was simply swamped when she reached the bottom of a similar type swell, was swallowed up, and went down like a rock. That's why she's upright, looks like she's still docked at berth but on the bottom, and never got an SOS out. They simply didn't have time.
Regardless, may the 29 crew members R.I.P.
TLDR
No hull damage?
Much respect and my prayers goes out to those have lost and risk their lives to help keep this country going .
So enjoying your videos... Im a Kiwi Maori from New Zealand - with English Norwegian Scottish ancestry and have been fascinated with the Great Lakes The EF and Titanic all my life. Subscribing.
Saw another video on the Fitz which had the best explanation: the Anderson, behind the Fitz at the height of the hurricane, experienced 3 massive waves in succession-I mean HUGE waves-the Anderson managed to survive them; the waves went proceeded ahead to where the Fitz was. The Fitz was never heard from again and disappeared from Anderson's radar. The massive waves caused the Fitz to go ride up the wave, then ride way down as it passed: the Fitz did a nose dive for the bottom and then broke in two. This is the most plausible explanation given the way the wreckage is at the bottom, broke in half.
I can never get through Gordon Lightfoot's song without crying.
I grew up on the lake and know how fast a nice day can turn into a nautical mess real quick. The great lakes are not a joke when the wind picks up and the lakes start to get rowdy if your on a pleasure craft you head in right away.
seen a storm in grand haven come out of the sky with octopus arms and kill 15 boaters against concrete bridge in early 80s
I would love to see people discussing the " three sisters' rogue waves that hit the Anderson, and we're headed for the Fitzgerald. The waves and the final snow squall hit at the same time. Double whammy!
This is the theory subscribe to
Agreed 💯
I read it was a 25ft. Wave that hit the Anderson first.
Buh. You couldn't pay me enough to work on a ship. Lake Superior is like a mini-Atlantic ocean, and it NEVER gets warm. It is an angry, angry lake.
Sounds right. Grew up on Long Island, ocean etc. And watching all thos stuff on the E.F. and Lake Superior creeps me the hell out. Had no idea how violent it is.
It’s a job that’s not for everybody. You literally live on that ship with about two dozen farter’s and snorer’s for over half the year. The men who work on these ships, it’s in their DNA because it’s all they know.
Beta.
Ive seen some big waves off the east coast, but nothing like what i experienced on lake superior
Don't be a puss.
I try to imagine what it was like to the poor souls under deck they probably had a horrible time going out like that, terrifying, quickly the shock of the freezing water pouring in, excellent program thank you
At least the end was incredibly quick (we hope), but they were below decks and terrified for hours. They couldn't have been unaware of the list and the water pumps working at maximum power. God rest their souls, and all of those who have fallen victim to the Lakes, and the Witch of November.
I as well as the NTSB and just about any master who has sailed straight deckers on the lakes can attest, the hatch cover theory as put forth by the Coast Guard following the accident is nothing but an incompetent investigation. There is no way in hell that the hatch covers could have allowed that much water in, over that period of time, without something catastrophic happening far before the time the ship went down.
Those who have moved or assisted in the loading or unloading of cargo and moving of hatches as well as clamping them down (in the way the Fitz did) can attest that the hatch itself can weigh up to 2 tons. I am not sure what the weight of the Fitz hatch's was, but I guarantee you that the only way for a fatal dose of water could have entered the hold is if it was completely off.
A more feasible reason for possible water entry is the loss of vent covers, which we know occurred. McSorely told Cooper that he had lost the railing & at least two vent covers, and was taking water and sitting lower in the water. Water leaking from a hatch cover would have filtered down, while water from a missing vent cover would have gone straight to the bottom.
There is evidence on the wreck today as well as evidence given by the Coast Guard 30 years ago that suggests she was not a stable ship. She had to have her skin re-welded on a regular basis as all the big freighters know the large cargo ships shake shimmy rock & roll so much the "Skin" separates & the Fitz was always filled causing even more separation.
We know BOTH radars were down, which is why she was in contact with Cooper, BUT the maps they were using had the island 1 mile off with only a 6-foot clearance on either side this surly took her into a very dangerous area that was unsafe, where she cut her skin started taking on water, this is when the clock of her demise started ticking! We know she had her pumps going, there was no type of issue with a list or water issues before they passed the Island.
Her problems were far more numerous than just one solitary problem, as in any sinking the reason for demise is not one sole event but a series of events.
Her sinking has been and continues to be investigated by organizations both governmental and private.
~Thank you Eric Wood ~
Thank You there was steel allocated for the Fitz sitting in repair yards
I've always thought the whole hatch cover theory is ridiculous and an attempt to blame Capt. McSorely and his crew for the sinking. I don't pretend to have the answer as t
o exactly why the Edmund Fitzgerald sank--probably any number of small things that resulted in a big disaster.
@@harrietharlow9929 920 mlb storm yhry have waited
@@harrietharlow9929 If you watched the WHOLE video you would know that the hatch cover theory wasn't blaming the Capt. or crew but a defect with the gaskets. And I was only 11 when the Edmund Fitzgerald sank and have no clue why she sunk other than mother nature showing man who is really the boss. But I'll let you TH-cam experts decide why she sank lol
Idc if the hatch cover was 5 tons- that type of water could nudge it off its mounting easily. In waves like that the hatch deck would be partial submerged at times. Probably in very trough. A hatch could have been the nail in the coffin but it certainly isn’t the whole story.
The fitz was abused and had a bad keel that had already been repaired and was due for another repair. It was constantly overloaded and had structural issues. The only other model of this ship- it’s sister ship- was taken out of service way before its service life, due to similar structural issues.
One of the best doc series about the Edmond Fitzgerald, in my opinion.
In 1993 i was on a 2 masted sailing ship that sank on lake Erie. Was a friend's parent's boat. We left Sandusky headed for Ashtabula. When we left the lake was choppy but nothing crazy. By the time we made it Ashtabula there were 10 foot waves. 10 feet may not sound big, they are. Im not sure what exactly happened but the boat started taking on water, it was terrifying. Not gonna lie, was one of the scariest times of my life. We were only about 1/2 mile or so from the shore. I considered swimming lol. Luckily the ship foundered in less than 25 ft of water. We still had to be rescued though. I considered swimming but even with a life jacket the 10 ft waves felt so much bigger. A charter fishing boat and a small coast guard boat came to our rescue. None of us were injured and we all made it. Terrifying at the time but a good story now lol. The boat got pushed into rocks near the shore and broke up over a couple days. But, im here to tell the story😊
Wow! That sounds terrifying. Glad you all made it safely!!
@@ShipHistoryme too haha. Luckily it was Lake Erie and the water was fairly warm. Talked to the friend who's parents boat it was yesterday. He said we hit something below the water line and that it got progressively worse as we sailed. I guess they knew the extent of the problem and were trying to beach it. I didn't know at the time but I guess the boat was almost 70 years old. They bought it in France in the 80's and sailed it across the Atlantic. Then they lived on it in Lake Erie for a while. He wasn't sure if this was true or not but I guess the people they bought it from said it was used it the evacuation of Dunkirk. Was part of the civilian flotilla that evacuated British troops. I never knew any of that, was pretty cool listening to it.
I seem to remember several years ago when a super tanker went down without a trace. The theory was that her own length worked against her, the troughs between the waves were so deep that when she rode high on a wave there was quite simply no water for the ship to ride down on and it 'slapped' the bottom of the trough, breaking her back. Don't know if this a known phenomena or even possible but it must be terrifying for any souls on board when the seas get that bad. Brave people, God Bless.
Was that the MV Derbyshire?
I also saw the fitz when I was a kid . In marine city there was ( maybe still is ) a small swimming area on the st. Clair river . When 2 big boats were passing , the one on the American side was so close I could allmost swim out to it . I absolutely remember seeing the fitz go by . HUGE boat .
Watched her in port Huron a few times.
To the crew of the mighty Fitzgerald may you rest in peace you are not Forgotten
I agree with everyone who gave positive feedback to this particular documentary. Engaging and very well narrated. Thank you so much for your time and effort to put this together for us Ship History!!
It must have gone down incredibly fast when not even the captain had a moment to react.
After the Fitz went down a few family members of the crew mentioned that their dead relative had complained about the fact that McSorley never pulled out of a storm. Somebody from the Soo Locks went back over the records from the period 1965-1975. During that time only one captain had never sought shelter in a storm, not once: Ernest McSorley.
@@insertnamehere313 I think one of the controversies that may never be known is whether of not temporary repairs were made to a crack in her hull at the Frazier shipyard in Duluth two months prior. Supposedly a 'temporary' repair was made intended to last until it could be properly repaired in layup. I don't think it's ever been clarified whether it happened or is just a story. And, no. No way would McSorley lasted 42 years on the Great Lakes had he been reckless. They'd have found out & run him off years before.
@@insertnamehere313 Where do you say the Anderson almost sunk in the storm too. You need to read Capt. Jesse Coopers testimony in which he said his ship rode the storm well and was not the worst he ever seen. His testimony is in the minutes of the Coast Guard Inquiry.
@@insertnamehere313 I'm not blaming or accusing him of anything. Merely repeating various things I've read.
@@bigmonmagoomba9634 It doesn't matter.
@@kimfleury You are correct. When he left Superior the weather was fine. He had been underway for hours before the gale warning was issued. He didn't know what was coming. Weather Service let him down.
Great great video! One of the best ones I've seen! R. I. P. To those lost, and God's comfort to their friends, families, and loved ones!
The Great Lakes are beautiful but can rage with violent fury when a storm takes over. I live on the smallest of the lakes, and despite it's size, lake Ontario can become angry even with a simple shift in wind direction. so i could just imagine how worse it is on Superior. Rest easy, Fitz crew. God be with your families
I grew up by the ocean and after watching several documentaries on this I have to say those lakes seem terrifying.
I’m from Ohio and know how dangerous the lakes could be. R.I.P. sailors🙏🏽
I now been living in AZ for decades but I remember the storm when she went down, growing up in Sheboygan co 15 mi in from Lake Michigan, man the witch would blow. People here in AZ think it's bad when in blows 45 mph. I recall having to crawl on the ground cause it would blow you down.
Trump Lost
The most frightening thing to me would be trapped in the engine room when that old girl broke in half, they had no chance to escape before the cold water killed those men in the engine Room.
Big Fitz sank because it was water laden. And it drove into a wave and sank instantly. Hitting the bottom so hard it split the ship in two.
Didnt help the ship had mesh netting for bulkheads , all the tactonite going to the bow when she nose dived
Must be nice to know the cause when even the NTSB and Coast Guard could find the cause
If you look back to what was going on with the ship before she went down it could help explain a lot. The ship was pulled from the water to the dry dock for the hull to be re-welded. As they put the load-carrying ability up the ship needed to be re-welded which would explain why the fence rail went door coz it was a stress fracture or metal fatigue etc. The waves that night made it bob up and down more than the ship could take and this shows somewhat in the wreck of the ship. This can also explain how the Aurther M Anderson went back out into that storm along with smaller boats which didn't go down to look for savours
Well you're right about most thing's you stated but the Andersons Captain Cooper said the Anderson was in danger of sinking several different times that trip and the Anderson was heavier than the Fitz was that trip.
It just goes to show you how bad the storm really was and even a well built freighter with no problems was in severe danger that day and is why most of the freighters was anchored during the storm across the great lakes at the time.
I used to see her while fishing on the Saginaw river, she was beautiful. The crew would wave to my kids which they liked very much. Rest easy Captain and Crew
ishung
I was on it just before it sank. My Uncle's knew the Engineer s . And got a chance to go on it. It was Massive ! Also saw it once off Lake Shore Drive by Grosse Pointe shores
Awesome stories, both of you.
Great documentary!
Just my two cents since I live 2 city blocks away from Lake St. Claire right near Detroit River and have a cottage right on Lake Erie.
Nobody or maybe one other person ever speaks about the pitch between waves in a large lake compared to an ocean. The pitch between waves in a lake is much smaller.....which means you are being nailed by waves from 3 sides at any given time and going down one wave you are hit by the next wave with no time to recove which makes it impossible for a large ship to try and hit the wave straight on as it should. Where as an ocean the pitch is much larger allowing the ship to normalize before getting hit again.......It's two different beasts. Let me explain differently. When I jet ski or boat in Lake Erie when its rough ......there is no pleasure in that ride. Where as in the ocean it is pleasurable the waves are further apart and much more manageable. Keep in mind I'm talking 10 or 12 foot swells....and a 30 foot offshore or jet ski. It's completely different of Lake and ocean waves but no one seems to talk about it.
bathtub effect of close shores,been a boater out of charleboix for decades especially near petisky
As one sailor I knew put it, the lakers being designed to be flexible to roll with the waves so the ship isn't so rigid that it snaps on the surface, combined with the short pitch, effectively it's like repeatedly bending a paper clip back and forth until it snaps. Being designed to be flexible buys time but doesn't make the ship invincible.
@@kimfleurythat is exactly right. Oh, it’s Kim again.
I think she broke in half and went down too fast for the captain to call a mayday
I love hearing about the big boat what a ship we were working out side in a big sawmill in Gladstone Michigan it was raining an some snow mix's with it an cold an lots of big wains never for get it
Now we know that she went straight down hard. I've been to the museum, and it's still so chilling and humbling.
That footage of the wreck: Haunting
I think the explanation given by George Morris at the 46:20 mark is the most probable explanation of the sinking. Personally, I think they should allow dives on the ship to discover more evidence of the cause. I can understand the feelings of the families not wanting people diving on the wreck, but the Coast Guard gave the Fitzgerald permission to haul more tonnage on that trip than what is normally allowed in November and thereby complicit in the sinking and I think that is the reason that dives are not allowed.
The families don't want any more poking around desecrating the resting place of their loved ones.
@@kimfleuryit’s the only wreck you can’t dive on. Though I respect the families decisions, it also doesn’t make sense that with the technology we have now, why not dive on her one more time to see what can be figured out. You or I could dive on the Kamloops wreck from the 1920s, and the engineer is still in the engine room. They call him ‘Ol Whitey, and with water displacement that a diver creates, ‘Ol Whitey will follow you when you dive by him. There’s photos of him online.
No one wants to disturb the men resting at there grave site and most mariners nowadays know it was 1 of two things
People are allowed to dive on the Daniel J Morrell and every other shipwreck where the men were lost so what's so different about the Fitz?
@David-cy7qv the families don't want anyone going over there and possibly messing with anything inside the wreck or taking pictures of possible body's still on board
Thanks before this video. Interesting back story regarding this - years ago in the 1990s I watched this video on videocassette and was enthralled by the song at the very end and how good it was. So in 2018 I put up my own version of the shoals of caribou. Although I misspelled caribou. Then February this year another fellow who liked my version of the song was able to upload the original song off of this video. The song is gaining popularity!
An outstanding documentary.
A nosedive by the bow sounds like the only way this could have happened. Another documentary I watched spoke about how taconite ore is dangerously absorbent to water, absorbing 8 to 9 times its weight in water volume. It makes no sense that any Great Lakes mariners or captain that routinely transported taconite ore during that time of year, which was notorious for ship-sinking storms, would risk leaving hatches open upon departure- especially because Capts. McSorley and Cooper already knew they were headed into heavy storms at the time they left. There's a reason "batten down the hatches" is an expression.
I don't know how the Three Sisters ended up being discounted so quickly in this video. It wouldn't take flooding the hatches for a rogue wave, especially a series of them, to sink a ship. It's also the only thing that explains why all 29 sailors were trapped on the ship and they never issued a distress call. Nothing else can take a ship down that quickly.
The only alternative is that water got into the cargo hold another way, the taconite increased in volume rapidly as it all shifted forward or to one side, and the Fitz didn't stand a chance. If she caught one or more rogue waves from the front, that would have been enough to shift all the iron to the bow by itself. It's notable, however, that divers to the wreck report that two of the hatches were buckled inward, implying a huge downward force onto them at some point, and resultant leakage. Mike TenEyk said in an interview that it wouldn't take rogue-sized waves to cause that buckling or leakage, just the 30-ft waves constantly battering the ship may have been enough.
It may be my cynicism about corporate oligarchy and the lengths they will go to for profit, but I've privately wondered if the Fitz wasn't deployed in rough conditions, with dangerous cargo, after years of possibly poor maintenance (according to some accounts), with the hope for a big insurance payout on a ship whose bankers and corporate backers knew was likely to sink. It wouldn't be the first time something like this was done. If the ship was indeed getting older and in need of more moneyed repairs, I think it's highly plausible.
Sadly, I also think it's plausible that McSorley's "We're holding our own" might have been due to knowing they were utterly screwed and didn't want Cooper to take the risk of the Anderson and its crew coming back for them when he knew there was nothing anyone could do to save the Fitz.
As an aside, it drives me crazy that everyone in that region insists on pronouncing Sault Sainte Marie wrong. It's not hard to say "Saul," and it is a French name, after all.
And having mesh netting for bulkheads didnt help either
It's a French name pronounced "Soo" because pronunciation changes over 200 years. Check the differences between pronunciation in France vs Québec vs Louisiana Acadian ("Cajun") vs any other French language country.
@Mandie Shumway the one guy didnt go on the fitz that night and was a mechanic and knew the fitz was in bad shape
I subscribed because you post some awesome videos. I love maritime stories, the wonders and the heart breaking
Thank you!
She was taking on water from either striking Bottom or from the vents missing and was treading water when the waves that struck the Arthur raised her stern and she nose dived.
When tracking the path of the Fitz one can surely see that she more than likely struck six fathom Sholes between Michipochten Island and Caribou Island where as the Anderson took a slight Southerly route just South of Caribou Island. I believe that a she had a gash near her keel section on the port side and with the twenty six thousand one hundred tons of ore in her hold and only two pumps in operation and the rough sea and a probable rogue wave considering both the Fitz and Anderson were caught where two storm fronts converged; I personally believe in a matter minutes after her last broadcast to Captain Cooper of the Anderson she had nosed dived to the bottom. It is calculated that she struck bottom at thirty miles an hour; also let us calculate the advancement in the current at that depth of Lake Superior due to the ferrousness of the storm on the surface from its normal current at that depth during normal weather conditions on the surface of Lake Superior at that particular geographic location in which the wreckage lays. And yes the Geography and location of the lake bottom and surface area plays an important roll in the conditions of the currents on both the surface and the location of wreckage on the bottom. The important factors are wind speed and gust velocity during the storm proper, maximum and minimum wave height encountered by the Fitz before and after the disaster and how severe and how much the cargo shifted in her holds due to the severity of the storm and the tidal conditions at the time she struck Six Mile Sholes and in open seas after she passed that point on the nautical charts. I believe also her bow and stern section separated mid point from the surface to the bottom. The only reason why the distance between the stern and bow is much closer than let's say the Daniel J. Morell is because the Morell broke up on the surface in 1966 as was the case of the Bradley in 1958 where as the Fitz broke in two submerged and a short distance from her final resting place seventeen miles West Northwest of the entrance to White Fish Bay five hundred feet below the lake surface. Both the Morell and the Bradley rest in deeper water than the Fitzgerald.
I like this documentary. Great song also.
Greed or pride could've led to overload once more to possibly break its previous records of loads carried. However, the Captain knew something was up with the ship after his maneuver around the shoals. So, could it have been ego or over confidence that prevented him from taking immediate action to find a quick safe point, instead of trying to continue onward? I believe that continuing on after damage was obvious from listing ( obviously due to structure damage) put them in danger of sinking. The ship was listing from damage, and obviously greatly overloaded and couldn't hang on once the rogue wave struck her.
I believe she was close to a port and safety by only a few miles
WLB-407 USCGC Woodrush was a buoy tender that was commissioned on September 22nd, 1944 and it was decommissioned on March 2nd, 2001. She was sold to the Ghana Navy and renamed GNS Anzone P30. She is still in active service after having served proudly under the Stars and Stripes for 57 years.
There are two storms that stick out in my duck hunting memory this one on November 10 1975 an the other the October 31 1991 the Halloween storm both times I was lucky to make it home safely
Mine too. Deer hunting.
@David Lotti Call me stupid, but it never occurred to me that such violent storms could occur on lakes (granted, lakes in Maryland aren't that huge and connected!). After learning about the storms on the northern lakes through these documentaries, my eyes were open wide 👀! So glad you survived your encounters. Please continue to be safe!! God bless and keep you safe always while on the waters hunting 'them there ducks' 🤣
I go up on the north shore of Lake Superior about once a year. It's a beautiful lake but when the weather gets rough it's a terribly deadly place to be. Ice cold water year-round, and people always forget that fresh water sinks ships and bodies easier whereas saltwater helps you float. Look at a saltwater aquarium next to a freshwater one. The freshwater fish are constantly flapping their fins, trying to keep from falling to the bottom. Saltwater fish glide around and float gracefully.
Wow. You were right up there where it happened on Superior?
Halloween of '91 was the "perfect storm" where 3 major storms converged off of the eastern seaboard, one coming from the great lakes. I had grown up on the east coast of Florida and remember that night.
Great video! Thank you.
The most likely scenario is that the Fitzgerald ship broke apart on the surface and went down very quickly. Huge waves, an older ship and a large load probably all contributed to a stress fracture near the stern and its sinking. The captain reported the side railings were buckling before the sinking, and that might have indicated excessive flexing of the hull. It may have flexed until it finally broke.
It was not an old ship at all at 17 years old.
Yeah not old the Anderson is still running strong
This is what I think. She was hogging and broke apart.
@@johnnyphartbox6866
Her sister ship had already been taken out of service due to structural issues
Very rarely is it one thing that causes a disaster. It's usually a chain of unlikely errors. Having said that, the ship was sinking from about 2:30 on . November 10th 1975.. The bullshit excuse about hatch covers, not even plausible. The key to the whole mystery begins with the heavy cable fence rails,&missing vent covers. Something caused her to bend , probably lifting the stern & bow slightly higher than her center. Certainly could've hogged but she took on water for nearly four hours. From my research the pumps were basically for the ballast tanks. The starboard list also makes you think about shoaling? I don't know, I wasn't there. Those men had pride in their ship, shipmates & would never have been reckless enough to not dog down the hatches. Also seeing the pilothouse port door secured open raises another mystery, did they try to abandon ship?? Apparently they never made it. Could not imagine standing on deck looking at the lifeboats all the way at the stern. About 550 feet away. Impossible to walk the deck to get to them. Also the other ships who searched, could you imagine finding a survivor? How would you save him. Wow!! Bless the men and their families. This also helped set new safety standards. Flotation suits with safety beacons. The sailors did not cause the sinking, no way ......
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Yes I agree. She was taking on water after hogging on 6 fathoms shoal . Bernie Copper captain of Anderson swore till the day he passed that she bottomed out and was slowly sinking from that point on. The pumps were kind of keeping up but water was building up and the ship was listing. Then a few hours later 30to 40 + waves hit the Anderson from behind and soon would catch the Fitz and when they did Fitz took the noise dive and entered into history!
If the ship was starting to sink around 2:30pm, why didn't mcsorley issue a call for help then?
@@amandawhisnant622 Hi because he was a old Ruff weather captain . He thought he could bring the ship in. He was in contact with the Arthur m Anderson and other vessels to far away or in port. They paid ruff weather captains a bonus back then.
@@ronyantz7349 Thank you for responding. I'm only 44, and have lived in SC all my life so I didn't know anything about all of this until a year or two ago. I admit I was curious about this because we have folks from michigan, Wisconsin at my church. I figured mcsorley was trying to rough it out
@@amandawhisnant622 Hi Amanda I'm 54. I as a wee boy i remember watching the evening news with Walter Kröhnkite with my dad when they told of her sinking , and became interested with the big Fitz.
The real hero of this; Capt. J.H. Hobaugh, who didn't take it seriously.
"In an hour and 17 minutes, we sailed out of Duluth, it took us (them) about 30, about 23 hours and 10 minutes it was."
Back in the 70s 80s and 90s I sailed in the Merchant Marine and there were several old rust buckets I did not think I was going to make it through the night the ships were so old in the city was just battering us and a few of these captains to make themselves look good but not slow the ship down once the cheese made second May and third mate threatened the captain that they were going to take the ship if we didn't slow down that was about the scariest and then there was one of the Far East we were cleaning the old bucket of blood up well it should be hard and the captain pumped out all of the ballasts because like an idiot he thought it would save money for the company pumping it out for sure and to barges because it's dirty ballast water loaded over cargo tanks and then we sailed into a small typhoon let me tell you it was bad the ship was about 800 ft long and we were going from side to side rolling 45° rolls I don't know how the hell we made it oh yes I do Jesus and a couple of Angels were with us at night and every other time I almost bought it thank you Jesus and thank you God thank you angels please take care of those boys on the Edmund Fitzgerald until I get to meet them
The Edmund Fitzgerald is the largest ship to ever sink in any of the Great Lakes. Before then, people thought she was too big to sink; but, it is speculated that she was overloaded. Rather than make two trips, they decided to pack it all in one trip and wound up losing all of the iron ore.
She was rated for the load she carried that day. I believe the boat was retrofitted to carry more than she was designed for initially.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy uh huh
My cousin’s future husband was scheduled to be on that trip, luckily he caught the flu and missed that trip.
What was his name? Everything I've read says the crew was the same all season, the exception was the cook, ive never heard the reason he missed given as the flu. Everything from getting off another ship late to Cancer diagnosis, but not the flu
A great documentary. A thought occurs that the ship design with the bridge (and presumably) the radio room right at the front if she did pile drive into a massive wave you imediately loose your comand centre and comms. This may explain the lack of any message? That and the missing ventilators open like drains into the body of the ship ramming huge quantities of water in board pushing the bows down?
She consistently sailed with more tonnage then the marine architect ever designed. The USCG approved the extra tonnage, but to try and keep the spotlight off their own negligence in allowing her to be run over her design limits, tried to blame hatch covers not being secured correctly (complete BS). She was a “wet” boat and was known to have to be rewelded in her hull and keel far more then other boats in her class. It’s pretty simple, and tragic, she was damaged and taking on water, then catastrophically failed amidships and sank like a rock.
Agreed. The Fitz was in no shape to be out there. There's a video on here with the cook that should have been on the Fitz but wasn't for medical reasons. He said that the captain was arrogant, never knew when to lay up to wait for bad weather to pass and that the ship had bad welds and was in poor shape. Regardless, Mcsorley sweet talked his way into passing an inspection and the rest is history.
Definitely she had a list so I agree
Sad but sounds true 💔
Did the CG's Marine Inspection Office(MIO) learn anything from this and did the shipowners, in their greedy arrogance, learn anything? The Morrell went down in '66 and the Fitz in '75 and the Bradley in '58. Everyone kept drinking cocktails and reassuring each other how safe these hunk of junk steel(bad steel) boxes really were. I can hear the yelling and corporate screaming if a CG MIO inspection team failed one of these ships. john, former cgman, on wives computer.
@@bethcooper4200 There's also Morrell's sister ship, The Edward Y. Towsend, she almost sunk during the same storm. Later, they found a massive crack on the deck and she was deemed unseaworthy. Two years later, while being towed to a Spanish scrapyard, she broke free during a storm and broke in half. The wreck is somewhere in the vicinity of the Titanic.
Fred Stonehouse is one of the best if not the best great lakes Maritime historian out there
Absolutely, I also highly recommend Captain Dudley Paquette's book on this subject. He was on Lake Superior with the SS Wilfred Sykes during this storm. His book is titled '
Now would someone try to find the Andrea Gail from the Perfect Storm film?
I'm convinced that Lake Superior is a mini ocean just playing cosplay as a lake.
Unlike the ocean Superiors waves come from all directions one after the other . Relentless.
Im no engineer, but id think physics would deem that the hull was very shallow to the ratio of hull length. That in very rough seas after years of hull stress that its only a matter of time that a ship like that after water ingress would break in half.
What is weird the Anderson is still on the water. I been with in a couple hundred feet of her.
With the self unloading boom now added.
That seems to be proof of how important solid maintenance is for those vessels
Yall need toread Caption Dudley Paquette The Night the Fitz went down.
He loaded right next to the Fitz. Saw them leave. He knew McSorley. And the Sykes was a weather ship. PAQUETTE knew the storm was coming being a weather watcher.
His point of view about the Fitz McSorley and that night. Its a good read.
Went to Superior fishing trip yrs ago . Never went out , fished the pier Duluth, Superior . Saw those frieters come and go . Amazing to behold . Anyway, found a broucher at a place where we were buying cheese and such. The thing had a map of the lake and all known shipwreck's . Some dated back to the 1800's can't recall the number of them. But what got me was many were listed as ( last sighting) , not sure where they went down . But pretty sure that the number of boats lost was over fifty
Loved this documentary, but wish it had added a tribute to the crew working on it. My uncle was among them.
have rogue waves ever been seen on the Great Lakes?
We live in the straits area and it was windy . I went outside to bring in more wood what wind we had.
Yes and 2 of them were heading for the Big Fitz, after passing over the Anderson if you replay the weather pattern of that night and pinpoint where the Fitz went down OMG it must have been terrifying thankfully it was over quick
@@Alethiometer Can I ask, did the captain of the Anderson report big waves rolling over his ship prior to reaching the Fitz?
Yes I worked on the great lakes for csl on the t.r. Maclagen
Many men have said the great lakes are much more dangerous than oceans
I wonder if her bow went down just seconds after McSorely put the phone down. Perhaps? Giving that moment he couldn’t call for help.
(Inspired by "The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot)
'Neath the wind and waves
Are many mariners' graves
Where lost souls forever are buried
On board that great ship
Till the sea loosed each man's grip
Not one of them even seemed worried
But November's tempest
That great vessel did test
None of its crew were survivors
By waves men were tossed
And all hands on deck lost
Their graves found by deep sea divers
Not many prevail
'gainst a furious gale
That keeps all the sailors a fearing
Save for a sturdy cape
There could be no escape
From sailors and ships disappearing
She listed to port
And then she came up short
As the lake sought right then to claim her
The crew fought all night
To set the ship right
From the unwelcome waters to drain her
But no matter how they fought
Their efforts were for naught
As there could be only one winner
The bow soon was full
Drawn down by gravity's pull
That spared neither saint nor sinner
It was already too late
When The Anderson's first mate
Phoned the captain of the vessel now sinking
"We're holding our own"
But his fate was unknown
As his ship the sea water was drinking
Brave men met their doom
With their great ship now entombed
On the cruel lake's rocky bottom
Sailors nine and one score
Suddenly were no more
For the witch of November had got 'em
I'm not sure if they prayed
Or what price they would have paid
To see another day dawning
But for them the bell did toll
As they sank in the shoal
While the angry sea was still yawning
It's been forty-six years
And an ocean of tears
Since that stormy night in November
To those brave men who are gone
We sing this mournful song
But in our hearts we shall always remember
We’ll hear songs no more
From Canada’s troubadour
Who’s gone on to his rest eternal
To him honor is due
As with that great ship and its crew
Who sail now in realms supernal
Though his time has passed
His great legacy will last
And inspire new generations
One more bow let him take
For his great ode to the Lake
And his many musical creations
© 2017 - 2023
McSorely was part of a Coast Guard and company review the year before of the Fitzgerald’s maximum loading for the November runs. The ship was supposed to be loaded lighter during November to allow for more free board in rougher weather. The Coast Guard changed the maximum loading to be the same as the rest of the year. McSorely was on his way to set another hauling record that year his last year as a ships captain. As for the ship hogging on a shoal it was never proven one way or the other. One thing that could have caused the vents to be taken off and knock the railings down was the spare propeller was stored on the deck in between the hatch covers about half way down. If that propeller had gotten loose it it could have be washed over the side causing the damage. The vent covers were there to prevent water from entering the ballast tanks with them gone water was entering the ballast tanks on one side of the ship. McSorely reported a list along with the ship seemed to be riding lower than normal.
Thank you. I have been wondering where these vents they spoke of were located. Now I have to find where the ballast tanks are. Thanks again.
Possibly stress fracture but what about huge wave lifting out the stern while the bow went under and never recovered
The bottom side of the stern was visible from photos of the wreck with no damage to the bottom, prop or rudder, so how would that be if a shoal scraped her bottom? How would a shoal only scrape the bow bottom and not the stern too? That's why I think the waves swamped the deck and got in through the hatches, not through the bottom, and also explains the lisp. Then she dove or powered into a large wave and the weight of water on her bow wouldn't let it come up, and at that point she might also have suffered a stress fracture amidships that breached when she struck bottom. The Edmund Fitzgerald crew didn't sacrifice in vain though. She was one of the last of the old school wrecks. Afterwards there were a slew of safety reforms: weather reporting, position locators, minimum free boards, depth sensors, cargo hold flood level sensors, survival suits, submarine-like lifeboats that launch off the stern, etc.
Half of the hill is visible. Half is buried in the mud.
About 200 feet of the midship was totally destroyed and isn't visible. That part of the ship could've struck caribou shoal. It makes sense because after the Fitzgerald passed the island it developed a starboard list. It would also explain why he had a fence rail down due to hogging stresses.
George Morris has the best explanation imo.
Stress fracture midship.
Whos here after hearing the passing of Gordon Lightfoot who wrote the HAUNTING tribute song
The thing I don’t get was in every documentary they say there was no warning : all pumps were at full capacity , the railing was gone and the Vessel was listing to starboard badly : it was recovering less and less after every wave. Kind of a sign that things aren’t goin well and call for help to abandon ship. Yes the weather was a living hell but abandoning would have given the guys half a chance.
Abandoning the Fitzgerald in a storm that reached Hurricane proportions, in November, those men would have been dead within 20 minutes from exposure.
@@davidpallin772 Yeah they never would've made it, how in the world would the Anderson have picked them up in that storm anyway, they couldn't have gotten close enough to scoop them up even if they were in a lifeboat but even that wouldn't have survived that sea.
@Conrad Niwinski I don't think they'd even have lasted that long!
@Conrad Niwinski Conrad, I can assure you that the men would have been dead within 20 minutes.
Eileen, having lived on an near Lake Superior I can assure you that the crew could never have survived this ordeal if they had a chance to abandon the ship. The water is so cold, hurricane force winds, waves 25 to 35 feet high, rescue is impossible. I have been told by medical professionals that 12 minutes is all you have, after that if rescue can’t get to you you are finished. I have been in Lake Superior in May through November and it is, well, you’re not in for long. Yes you are right, there was no warning, the crew had been battling the storm all afternoon, being battered and tossed about. Then it got worse when the winds shifted. Now the winds were from the west northwest gaining strengthening across the expanses of Lake Superior. Remembering what Captain Cooper said that after 6:00 pm. three monster waves rolled over his ship(Anderson) and these same waves caught up to the already floundering Fitzgerald. The Fitzgerald, having been battered all daylong couldn’t take anymore pounding, those rogue waves sank her.
The brave sailors 😥
Rest In Peace Sailors. It’s a very interesting happening. The only thing I have a question about is no one really knows what brought her down but for insurance the coast guard called it crew incompetents.
That's because of what happened when the Carl Bradley went down in Lake Michigan in 1958.
@@kimfleurythank you for that info. There are many ships with crewmen in these lakes that went down due to overworked , over loaded ships for money.
Been here in Ireland I never realized just how big that lake is, never knew you could get waves that size same as the sea or ocean.
Just for the hell of it, and since I've been up all damn day and night and clearly aren't going to sleep, I did some Googling.
Ireland is 32,595 square miles
Lake Superior is 31,700 square miles, and up to 1,332 ft deep.
So Lake Superior is essentially your entire country, except with water half as high as your tallest mountain.
Lake Superior also holds 10% of the world's freshwater.
Greetings from Indiana, USA. Hopefully someday I'll have enough money to be able to go there and see your country, it looks so beautiful.
@@deejayimm Thanks for that was going to work it out. Texas would hold Ireland 8 times. Was watching a program on driving tours in the US, Our idea of a long drive is 200 miles, in your case that's round the corner. Oh by the way happy 4th.
@@philipmcdonagh1094 And my home province of Ontario-the second largest , Canadian province- could hold about 13 “Irelands” or about 1 and a half “Texas’s” (??). Ontario also includes/touches 4 out of 5 of the Great Lakes, Lake Superior being one of them. (Only Lake Michigan is wholly within the US.) Quite something, when you really think about some of these things, isn’t it?
@@margaretanscombe730 Have to get over my fear of flying, there's only so far you can go from here without a pair of wings.
@@margaretanscombe730 Have to get over my fear of flying, there's only so far you can go from here without a pair of wings.
I often wonder if tragedies like this were due to the inherent construction of these boats. When my Dad was alive i travelled with him on his ship up to Duluth a few times. These Lakers always looked fragile and lacked freeboard when loaded compared to our Saltie.
Sounds like the Coast Guard Dropped the ball on the first call out to rescue the crew . What a shame
The Fitz had a few hours to make a distress call, and didn't. Knucklehead.
47:38 I read that Jacques Cousteau wasn't even in the United States, it was an employee who came and looked over the wreck and afterwards was quoted as saying the wreck was "very uninteresting"
I thought it was is son, on the Calypso?
The standard European view of all things American….I find Cousteau’s comment predictable & “very uninteresting” in itself.
I belive it was last yr i saw the anderson pass by on lake supuior
They say one body had on a life jacket and sits on the Lake bottom so someone was scared enough to put it on. Horrifying death in the cold dark. So sorry it happened .
I like how the FBI warning is literally illegible
Bruce Hudson's mother took great offense to them saying the Fitz went down because the hatch covers weren't locked down. Her son was one of the best deck hands, a consummate professional, and Captain Sorley not only trusted Bruce, but loved him dearly as a son. No way he neglected his job. I agree with Captain Cooper of the Arthur Andersen. The ship's bow was hit by several giant waves and took a dive, thereby breaking up the ship. These people didn't want to blame the actual structure of this ship as being faulty because then the insurance company would have to pay many lawsuits, so they blamed it on the Captain and crew. Shameful. So sorry to Mrs. Ruth Hudson. We know Bruce did his job and did it well.
I think it was the crickets that did it, you can hear them in the video.
I knew Michael Schumacher was a great driver, I had no idea he wrote documentaries. /s
Huh, this guy had YT videos before YT or the Internet existed...very forward thinking.
If she hit the shoal shouldn’t there be evidence in The upturned stern or damage to the propeller??
Absolute chad move to include the fbi warning
That is quite an elaborate depiction of the end of the ship provided around the 47:00 mark, although, given the speakers absence at the event, it just sounds like a inaccurate fantasy. You can see wear the bow dove into the mud and dug itself in.
If the inspection on the 31st of October was that the Fitzgerald was ordered not to start the 1976 season, but they allowed the Fitzgerald to finish the 1975 season. I dont understand how they could order that ship to be fixed before it was to start the 76' season and allow it to make its last run in 75'. That's the worst decision made and it was made directly due to financial gain and nothing more.the I've ever heard. Why was that ship not ordered to cancel its last run to be fixed if it needed serious enough repairs that it was not to start the following season until it was fixed?
"There were no witnesses." There was a witness - The Anderson, but she can't tell what she saw, because the storm blocked her view. When she finally got through the storm to Whitefish Bay, The Fitz was already gone.
Capt Millradt,. Can you imagine the horror if the ANDY found any survivors? What would they do? You would never be able to stand on deck, wow!!!!
13:50
So the NWS calling it a typical November storm…
How would they know it’s a typical one?
Seems like it took more than a “typical November storm” to make the Fitz nose dive into the lake bed and break apart.
You can tell by the cracks in the hull and the accordion like damage to the foc’sle/bow.
This was well done.