While these ranges are GTO, the app also has exploitative ranges (that are both simplified and tailored to softer player pools) if you're interested. Get app download links and everything else here: redchippoker.com/gto-ranges-app
Would this mean that I could change what my opponent is doing in a situation like for instance when they defend they would call all JJ, TT and 99 and maybe make them fold A5s ?
I'm glad you (briefly) touched on the fact that the solver is 4 betting "against" another solver's 3 bet range. so it makes sense that the continuance is (much) wider than most live players continue. Because in a lot of (small stakes) live cash games 3 bets are few & far between.
A very intuitive video that you have put together and I really enjoyed the content. Could you put one together where you go beyond the flop and play it right through to the river. For the example where you initially raised from CO and gets 3-bet by BB, then say we flat call with 88. Flop comes 2,3,9 rainbow. If BB makes a CBet on the flop, based on GTO would you just flat here or raised? Then if BB checks the turn, would you bet here - the reason being is that I could be representing a set of 9s here based on the GTO charts you showed as 99 was a possible calling hand when faced with a 4-bet from BB. Of course the play you make on the turn would assume that your opponent is GTO-acute and not just a calling station. Anyways based on what I have written, am I on the right track in using GTO to make my 'plays'?
Any specific setups you'd want to see (include preflop action + exact board)? I can certainly do the 932r, and could possibly do some extra ones too =)
@@ThePokerBank Thanks for replying. Yes it would be good to take a number of examples from preflop action all the way to the river. From a GTO perspective playing a strong made hand to playing a bluff as that would be interesting to have you explain how GTO can be applied in these examples. Another thing, can we use GTO when playing against more than one opponent?
Should add when talking about 4 betting QQ in chat, I am assuming 100 bb and also of course the openers positions makes a big difference too. Way more likely to jam QQ to a late position opener if he is not a nit :-) Love your channel and books.
Great job with the video and thanks for doing all the work with the sims. It seems absolutely crazy to me that utg vs d 3 bet that 1010 is mostly a fold, 99 is a pure gold and JJ is a partial fold. Seems like if we're being that tight the dealer can just print money by three betting and position
You have a tight opening range, and you are only folding 50% against the 3bet, so the button cannot print money by just 3betting. If you think the button is 3betting more than the supposed range, you should also call and 4bet more.
Cheers Daniel! Like @Arnold said, the UTG OR range is quite snug, which factors in. But if the BTN deviates and begins 3-betting more, then the correct thing for UTG to do is deviate exploitatively as well =)
Even if they 3Bet 100% of the time and hypothetically you dont adjust to that, they still cannot print money. Your opening range utg is super tight to begin with. Assume you raise 3bb, they make it 12bb. 1/2 times they will make 4.5bb from your folds. When you call or 4bet, you will be winning 13.5bb 75% of the time….which makes it pretty even . So certainly dont go 3betting the utg players thinking your are printing money ;)
The ranges seems very tight compared to standard 6 max charts. Is this because we’re opening much tighter from all positions, and this is to account for the fact that live players call more so we have to be stronger?
I have brought this up before regarding solver output, and how it can seem non-intuitive. But maybe can you get into some of the reasons and strategy why on the 1st hand, KJs and KTs would be a mix of raise/call, while KQs, which is a stronger hand in almost all scenarios, is a fold 100% of the time?
The BTN 3! Range has QQ, AQs, and KQs. BTN calls with AQs, AJs, KJs, QJs KTs. Of course BTN has mixed strategy with many of them. But, in general, in the solver scenario, when BTN 3! the UTG range, we will be dominated on weaker Q hands and not as dominated on J hands. So, against a BTN 3! vs UTG open, in the scenario used for the solve, KJ is more value than KQ. I’m sure there’s other reasons. But that’s what I can see from using the app. Obviously this is in an optimal equilibrium scenario. There’s a very good chance in a live setting this will all be different. Which he makes sure everyone knows is a different conversation. But this is an excellent baseline strategy to make your own deviations and exploit others not playing optimally.
I have a question. If a player would for instant raise 100% of the range on the button against a GTO player that opens UTG the mistake the GTO player makes is to ‘act’ as if this would be a stronger range and it might fold too often but what I understand the profit comes from the hands that are being called by the GTO player, playing against a weaker range when it calls and after the call it also assumes that the range is limited to the gto-range it assumes which might be an error but the profit comes from the mistakes made by the other player. Is this correct? If we would for instance play 2000+ big blinds deep and I would try to win from the gto bot and let’s say I open with 72o and the gto bot reraises with AA and I would call with 27o and the flop comes 222. Would the gto bot call a 2000 big blind front shove because it assumes to be against KK and never against a 2? Even with 20.000 big blinds?
Good question. Differences between the number of players (if comparing the 6max and Live ranges), and very importantly the sizing in the gametree since live cash sizes tend to be larger than 6max sizes...
Hey SplitSuit. I tried the 'Android' version of the solver. As a new user I was interested in the 'explore' mode for free. IT WILL NOT ALLOW FREE EXPLORE MODE... FORCES YOU TO 'BUY' YOUR WAY IN.............BUMMER...........
For The GTO Ranges App? That's correct, only the OR ranges are free. App development, solving, the team, etc. are all very expensive, so we have to charge for some things =)
K6s gets mixed in for balance purposes, so the LP RFI and response to a BTN 3bet is not too value dense. Again we don't see this often enough live but solver vs solver will want to have some bluffs here.
The out of position 3bettor is supposed to polarize more because of position, so the in position opener does more linear 4betting at a lower frequency and a much higher frequency of calling, especially with some quite high equity hands which are effectively bluffcatching. The most interesting observation is that KK is a high frequency 4bet in position because a lot of the 3bets it will face will be Ax, which makes it lack equity on most ace high flops and difficult to realise equity on a lot of low flops.
Hi, this is kind of backwards. In position you have more incentive to flat which is why the button is the only position besides the big blind which has flats in 100 bb eqilibrium 6 Max. Out of position should 3bet linearly with their entire continuing range and thus is not polar. BB is an exception because they are normally getting a reasonable price. IP 4bets less because IP has higher EV post flop and does not gain as much from winning pre
only checked hj vs btn out of curiosity, I see some relevant difference between your range and GTO Wizard that is not exactly a beginner in GTO play: raise 24%, call 12%, fold 61.5% . Are your ranges adapted for live play? If yes does it still make sense to call them GTO?
The free cash ranges I suspect you are referring to in Wiz have the HJ opening 2x 22% of the time, which will certainly impact the subsequent ranges. All GTO preflop ranges are a biproduct of the gametree given the solver. Wiz's gametree uses a 2x OR while our gametree uses a 4x OR size to mimic live cash environment. Both Wiz and our ranges are GTO, but will have different levels of accuracy and applicability based upon the tree.
I am a little disappointed, since you did not play the situation according to the game tree until the end. But that’s where the value lies for most of the cash players.
Totally true, that is what the solver is doing. And now, when playing against real humans, you know what you (and your opponents) are deviating from...
Once again demonstrating the lunacy of GTO... yes, if I'm playing 1 billion hands against the same 8 players over the next 100 years... assuming those same 8 players are paying the slightest attention to my properly polarized tendencies. What nonsense.
If you raise purely linearly, it easy for me to play optimally against you. I just fold my worse hands and raise my better ones. Thanks for the easy game!
@@pepesports9298 Repeat after me... AA, KK, AKs, AK from early position, 4 betting... and you in the cutoff paying careful attention every 6 hours that I get these hands... bahahaha... thank you for shipping your stacks!
@@jeffryglenn7024 I’ll just fold everything but AA and KK then. You are not making any money off me. Nits are exploited by avoiding them. Easier to play against than even the worst of players.
@@pepesports9298 If you can't understand my point then you haven't got a clue about poker... or anything else for that matter... the video limited 4 betting to AA, KK, AKs, AK... I guessing you didn't even watch it... and you've never played GTO in your life.
@@jeffryglenn7024 I can't understand you because your IQ is not high enough to get across your point. Clearly you live in a cardboard box and somehow have figured out how to connect to the internet.
you're playing online poker?? Ohhh, boy! 😜😝🤐🤔🙄🙄🤕🥵My condolences to your stacks! It does not matter what site. It's ONLINE, man!! "RIGGED" is too polite name for what's going on.
While these ranges are GTO, the app also has exploitative ranges (that are both simplified and tailored to softer player pools) if you're interested. Get app download links and everything else here: redchippoker.com/gto-ranges-app
Would this mean that I could change what my opponent is doing in a situation like for instance when they defend they would call all JJ, TT and 99 and maybe make them fold A5s ?
Love your in depth range findings videos keep up the great work 👍 happy grinding everyone
I need to show my wife this chart haha thanks for putting this content out there man!
You're very welcome Deez!
I'm glad you (briefly) touched on the fact that the solver is 4 betting "against" another solver's 3 bet range.
so it makes sense that the continuance is (much) wider than most live players continue.
Because in a lot of (small stakes) live cash games 3 bets are few & far between.
Cheers, and you're exactly right!
A very intuitive video that you have put together and I really enjoyed the content. Could you put one together where you go beyond the flop and play it right through to the river. For the example where you initially raised from CO and gets 3-bet by BB, then say we flat call with 88. Flop comes 2,3,9 rainbow. If BB makes a CBet on the flop, based on GTO would you just flat here or raised? Then if BB checks the turn, would you bet here - the reason being is that I could be representing a set of 9s here based on the GTO charts you showed as 99 was a possible calling hand when faced with a 4-bet from BB. Of course the play you make on the turn would assume that your opponent is GTO-acute and not just a calling station. Anyways based on what I have written, am I on the right track in using GTO to make my 'plays'?
Any specific setups you'd want to see (include preflop action + exact board)? I can certainly do the 932r, and could possibly do some extra ones too =)
@@ThePokerBank Thanks for replying. Yes it would be good to take a number of examples from preflop action all the way to the river. From a GTO perspective playing a strong made hand to playing a bluff as that would be interesting to have you explain how GTO can be applied in these examples. Another thing, can we use GTO when playing against more than one opponent?
Cheers, and good questions. As for GTO in MW pots, yes. Here is a video with an example: th-cam.com/video/U4VIFC8HqKY/w-d-xo.html
Should add when talking about 4 betting QQ in chat, I am assuming 100 bb and also of course the openers positions makes a big difference too. Way more likely to jam QQ to a late position opener if he is not a nit :-) Love your channel and books.
Thank you Adriana!
Great job with the video and thanks for doing all the work with the sims. It seems absolutely crazy to me that utg vs d 3 bet that 1010 is mostly a fold, 99 is a pure gold and JJ is a partial fold. Seems like if we're being that tight the dealer can just print money by three betting and position
You have a tight opening range, and you are only folding 50% against the 3bet, so the button cannot print money by just 3betting.
If you think the button is 3betting more than the supposed range, you should also call and 4bet more.
Cheers Daniel! Like @Arnold said, the UTG OR range is quite snug, which factors in. But if the BTN deviates and begins 3-betting more, then the correct thing for UTG to do is deviate exploitatively as well =)
Even if they 3Bet 100% of the time and hypothetically you dont adjust to that, they still cannot print money. Your opening range utg is super tight to begin with. Assume you raise 3bb, they make it 12bb. 1/2 times they will make 4.5bb from your folds. When you call or 4bet, you will be winning 13.5bb 75% of the time….which makes it pretty even . So certainly dont go 3betting the utg players thinking your are printing money ;)
The ranges seems very tight compared to standard 6 max charts. Is this because we’re opening much tighter from all positions, and this is to account for the fact that live players call more so we have to be stronger?
FR (both 8 and 9 handed) ranges are always tighter than 6max charts. You're exactly right that the tighter OR ranges impact the subsequent ranges =)
I have brought this up before regarding solver output, and how it can seem non-intuitive. But maybe can you get into some of the reasons and strategy why on the 1st hand, KJs and KTs would be a mix of raise/call, while KQs, which is a stronger hand in almost all scenarios, is a fold 100% of the time?
The BTN 3! Range has QQ, AQs, and KQs.
BTN calls with AQs, AJs, KJs, QJs KTs.
Of course BTN has mixed strategy with many of them.
But, in general, in the solver scenario, when BTN 3! the UTG range, we will be dominated on weaker Q hands and not as dominated on J hands.
So, against a BTN 3! vs UTG open, in the scenario used for the solve, KJ is more value than KQ.
I’m sure there’s other reasons. But that’s what I can see from using the app.
Obviously this is in an optimal equilibrium scenario. There’s a very good chance in a live setting this will all be different. Which he makes sure everyone knows is a different conversation.
But this is an excellent baseline strategy to make your own deviations and exploit others not playing optimally.
I have a question.
If a player would for instant raise 100% of the range on the button against a GTO player that opens UTG the mistake the GTO player makes is to ‘act’ as if this would be a stronger range and it might fold too often but what I understand the profit comes from the hands that are being called by the GTO player, playing against a weaker range when it calls and after the call it also assumes that the range is limited to the gto-range it assumes which might be an error but the profit comes from the mistakes made by the other player. Is this correct?
If we would for instance play 2000+ big blinds deep and I would try to win from the gto bot and let’s say I open with 72o and the gto bot reraises with AA and I would call with 27o and the flop comes 222. Would the gto bot call a 2000 big blind front shove because it assumes to be against KK and never against a 2? Even with 20.000 big blinds?
thanks for shutting off the background music!!! ❤
Cheers =)
great job asalways
Thanks Eric!
Trying to apply this into my game.
GLGL!
Wow 😮
What percentage rake are you accounting for in your simulations?
0% for the live solves since the % is quite low at $2/$5+ (where even maxed rake is usually
I’m confused why the perfect GTO range is different online to live?
Good question. Differences between the number of players (if comparing the 6max and Live ranges), and very importantly the sizing in the gametree since live cash sizes tend to be larger than 6max sizes...
Hey SplitSuit. I tried the 'Android' version of the solver. As a new user I was interested in the 'explore' mode for free. IT WILL NOT ALLOW FREE EXPLORE MODE... FORCES YOU TO 'BUY' YOUR WAY IN.............BUMMER...........
For The GTO Ranges App? That's correct, only the OR ranges are free. App development, solving, the team, etc. are all very expensive, so we have to charge for some things =)
What's the deal with K6?
K6s gets mixed in for balance purposes, so the LP RFI and response to a BTN 3bet is not too value dense. Again we don't see this often enough live but solver vs solver will want to have some bluffs here.
I assume blocker + uncovered card when given action + need some air that isn't exclusively AXs =)
The out of position 3bettor is supposed to polarize more because of position, so the in position opener does more linear 4betting at a lower frequency and a much higher frequency of calling, especially with some quite high equity hands which are effectively bluffcatching. The most interesting observation is that KK is a high frequency 4bet in position because a lot of the 3bets it will face will be Ax, which makes it lack equity on most ace high flops and difficult to realise equity on a lot of low flops.
Hi, this is kind of backwards. In position you have more incentive to flat which is why the button is the only position besides the big blind which has flats in 100 bb eqilibrium 6 Max. Out of position should 3bet linearly with their entire continuing range and thus is not polar. BB is an exception because they are normally getting a reasonable price. IP 4bets less because IP has higher EV post flop and does not gain as much from winning pre
why are there no 4bet bluffs?
There are. Just depends on the exact set up and positions 👍
only checked hj vs btn out of curiosity, I see some relevant difference between your range and GTO Wizard that is not exactly a beginner in GTO play: raise 24%, call 12%, fold 61.5% . Are your ranges adapted for live play? If yes does it still make sense to call them GTO?
The free cash ranges I suspect you are referring to in Wiz have the HJ opening 2x 22% of the time, which will certainly impact the subsequent ranges. All GTO preflop ranges are a biproduct of the gametree given the solver. Wiz's gametree uses a 2x OR while our gametree uses a 4x OR size to mimic live cash environment. Both Wiz and our ranges are GTO, but will have different levels of accuracy and applicability based upon the tree.
@@ThePokerBank makes sense, not 2x on Wiz but I see your point
Cheers!
In my games flatting qq and all is probably 80/20 for player tendencies. They def don’t auto 4 bet
I am a little disappointed, since you did not play the situation according to the game tree until the end.
But that’s where the value lies for most of the cash players.
There are lots of other videos on this channel for postflop play. This video was ONLY about preflop ranges.
I'm only 5 minutes in. But I respectfully disagree, in the low limit cash games i play I assure you over folding is not the mistake they make.
Did you finish the video?
has anyone ever told u that u look like Shia LaBeouf with a big beard
I think that's the first time I've heard that one, lol
i 4b KK 78% of the time. I'm a friggin loser !!!
are you playing ONLINE poker? Must be! 🤣
And lest I forget... those same 8 players must be playing PERFECT GTO poker, thus denying any opportunities for exploitative play.
Get real!
Totally true, that is what the solver is doing. And now, when playing against real humans, you know what you (and your opponents) are deviating from...
Once again demonstrating the lunacy of GTO... yes, if I'm playing 1 billion hands against the same 8 players over the next 100 years... assuming those same 8 players are paying the slightest attention to my properly polarized tendencies.
What nonsense.
If you raise purely linearly, it easy for me to play optimally against you. I just fold my worse hands and raise my better ones. Thanks for the easy game!
@@pepesports9298 Repeat after me... AA, KK, AKs, AK from early position, 4 betting... and you in the cutoff paying careful attention every 6 hours that I get these hands... bahahaha... thank you for shipping your stacks!
@@jeffryglenn7024 I’ll just fold everything but AA and KK then. You are not making any money off me. Nits are exploited by avoiding them. Easier to play against than even the worst of players.
@@pepesports9298 If you can't understand my point then you haven't got a clue about poker... or anything else for that matter... the video limited 4 betting to AA, KK, AKs, AK... I guessing you didn't even watch it... and you've never played GTO in your life.
@@jeffryglenn7024 I can't understand you because your IQ is not high enough to get across your point. Clearly you live in a cardboard box and somehow have figured out how to connect to the internet.
pointless advice as I play on pokerstars where the dealing is rigged.
you're playing online poker?? Ohhh, boy! 😜😝🤐🤔🙄🙄🤕🥵My condolences to your stacks! It does not matter what site. It's ONLINE, man!! "RIGGED" is too polite name for what's going on.