Hi Mr PETE You pointed out ajusting the barrel, when the barrel is so tight possible corrosion, it can mess up the hole where the key fits, what we used to do is remove the thimble & put the barrel in a collet using the frame pull & twist it off, using the collet there will be no damage, clean & refit, hope that is useful. From Coventry UK 🇬🇧.
I'll just add that having worked at a company owned by Americans National Broach later L/S Red Ring in Coventry, you would have been happy, all the measuring tools STARRETT!
We used something like that National micrometer in high school. It was perfect for that kind of abusive environment. If it was over-tightened, distorted, or just developed worn faces, it could be discarded and economically replaced. They were used for teaching how-to-read, and how-to-measure (we also had to learn to read vernier-equipped tools, like calipers and height gauges). We had no "teaching aids" except for the large wall charts provided by either Starrett or Lufkin. There were better ones available (Slocomb, I think, and in various sizes) that you could use, but only under supervision. The only actual teaching aids we had were those large, yellow slide rule analogs that were used to teach calculating using slide rules. Thanks again for the memory.
I still have my first micrometer - a Starrett No. 230. Luckily I was trained by prototype machinists who would not let me go cheap! I'm glad they were so insistent!
I was watching a Moore and Wright "projection" micrometer on ebay a while back. It was a design i never seen before, like something designed to measure depths, but not like a normal depth micrometer. A good video would be unusual measuring tools like that.
I have the same opinion regarding measuring tools. One does not need to even think about quality measurement if the Starrett brand is used. We had the National brand in HS but "graduated" to B&S in College. Starrett was used in all of my business experiences. Love the red boxes too!
MY shop teacher agrees with you. he signed off on me ordering STARRETT Micrometer set 1"-3". he had to give the ok for the VA to pay for them for my Re-training.
My science teacher in junior high gave me a Welch catalog. I spent HOURS and HOURS browsing it. Tried to order something and they told me they only sold to schools! Lots of those teaching aids show up on eBay at incredible prices. I do have a Welch roll down periodic table of the elements which is great. Thanks, as usual, Mr. Pete and Happy New Year (hopefully 2021 will be better as we need a refund on 2020)!
Happy New Year Mr. Pete! I actually keep an old Starrett 1" in my "general use drawer". No case or box for it but it always comes up the same--~0.0005 over on my gauge blocks. You used to be able to pick up a used Starrett 1" for dirt cheap around here but now even really ratty ones bring a good amount. Of course I have several "good" (both Starrett and Mitutoyo and a Brown & Sharpe) ones that are kept in their original cases if I have them or in boxes that I made. I'm a woodworker, not a machinist so my precision measuring is limited to machine set-up and or repair. (I used to work on small engines too-old Wisconsin and Kohlers that were used on construction equipment-that's why I started picking up mics.)
Get them out and use them I have retired and have asked my self why am I using crap cheap tools and keeping the good ones for best. I have started to use and enjoy.
"No case or box for it but it always comes up the same--~0.0005 over on my gauge blocks" - so why leave it like that - get it adjusted ! That's drive me up the wall !
@@stevewilliams587 I do use them! Just don't need them for most of my work/hobbies. I keep the old one for checking the size of unmarked drill bits, and estimating the size of bolts screws and studs. It's always handy without getting one from the cabinet.
Mr Pete, You're always the best. I agree with you totally on the owning your own tools point. To this day, I still encounter people that are half heartedly "looking" for a job as a handyman. They're fast to say, that they're experienced in most everything (IE: Jack of all trades). Then they elaborate their situation to include the fact that they currently have no tools. 10 or so years ago, in my naive youth, I would hire them, and then lend them my tools to perform whatever task needed to be accomplished. Surprisingly , at the completion of the task, if I lent them a hypothetical full set of sockets, that had a case with a space for all ot the pieces (I love stuff in fitted boxes) they would come back with two or three of the tools missing. The best part was, then they claimed that those parts were missing when I lent them the tool set. THAT WAS THE END OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT ! Merry Christmas (Belated) and a sincerely HAPPY and HEALTHY New Year! I'll not touch the election and blah, blah, blah...........................Please keep the shop videos coming Sincerely, Scott
Just like Bob Hope would sing "thanks for the memories". You've made 2020 a little better with your great videos and glimpses into the past. Looking forward to seeing you again soon.
Thank You Lyle....Mrpete222 in the morning just like my dependable old wall clock you just keep ticking and I do not have to wind you up, ha. Look forward Lyle you are so very consistent and accurate....TM
I remember the OMEGA brand back in the 1960's as low cost, mostly imported, tools from uncommon sources such as Spain. That was a time when most imports were junk and everything good was made in USA. (Still true to a certain extent.) Remember? Good ole days.Thanks for the video.
Thanks MrPete for another great video. I also like the what makes it work videos. I just watched 3 more videos of yours that were really good. 1. Noga dial indicator holder 2. Dial indicator (liked seeing the different models) 3. Speedometer , liked the commentary too. I just subscribed to blondihacks since she featured you in her Christmas video. Another really good channel. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
One thing I learned early: time spent after school voluntarily benefited me personally. Way more to life than grades! At times my grades improved because a few nuggets were discovered then. I spent so much time with some of my college professors, that we were fast friends even after graduation. I'm with you on using quality tools. If you are familiar with the real McCoy, you can tell a fake by touch or sight.
I carried on after final exams to finish my project .. a metal working lathe. All my mates were enjoying themselves.. swimming and smoking. I used that lathe for years.
Hi Lyle, interesting analysis. Surprisingly good for an old cheap micrometer. Fully agree, apprentices should learn with the best there is and then they can adapt much more easily to inferior versions in the future, and importantly know when to get an independent measurement when they don't trust what they see! Cheers, Jon
Good morning Mr. Pete, good video. I can say you get what you pay for in cheap. Most home shops are not making parts for NASA so cheap won't hurt to much. Hapy new year and pass the coffee.
I guess wear of the threads in a non-hardened spindel might account for the slight cover-reading in parts of the scale now. These were probably not too bad when they were new. Not bad for the price, considering the intended purpose.
We used Starrett exclusively in the mill I worked in. I was glad, only the best. Then one ominous day my boss started buying a dastardly brand from Japan. Mitutoyo. I was angry he bought that JUNK. Then I started using it. Swallowed my pride. It's pretty good stuff actually. I still like the Starrett, better hand feel.😉
I realize that this is mostly a matter of opinion...I think that Mitutoyo measuring tools are vastly better than Starrett. Considerably more smooth in operation, silky smooth!
@@markclauss2314 Yes, Mitutoyo is fine. Starrett feels more balanced in my hand. Maybe it's just what I grew up with. I never liked a ratchet on a mic. I like to get a feel for one and go with that. Another instance of personal preference.
You can find great deals on those old Starrett micrometers on ebay. A man sold me a No. 436 for $11.00 because it had initials carved into it. It came with a custom made leather scabbard.
"Apprentices should learn with the very best". I'm glad to hear you say that! This has always been a pet peeve of mine. WHY would anyone want to teach a "novice" on something "cheap"? The most critical point of learning anything is when you first start. I first witnessed this nonsense when it comes to musical instruments. You can get a beginner violin for about $50 and it will sound terrible. My first acoustic guitar and piano were not quality and the sound was a bit discouraging to me as a beginner. You don't want that for someone that's just starting. Of course, there are always exceptions. I'm sure there are some decent products made for beginners. Thanks for all you do, Mr Pete. You are a blessing from Jesus.
I suspect that was not the correct use for it ! Bizarrely, in the case of Starrett, it is ! For zeroing, the method I've come across is to loosen the 'ratchet' knob (or screw at that end) and rotating the barrel while holding the spindle from rotating. At least this way there is a positive locking clamp preventing it from slipping.
@@millomweb What other use would there be? Every new micrometer of any quality comes with a similar wrench and has a hole for it to fit into. The other end of the wrench with two tangs is for adjusting the compression nut.
Hi Mr. Pete, when you were counting the guage blocks, you sounded a bit like an auctioneer. Maybe you have a hidden talent? Please keep the videos coming, I. look forwarward to watching them.
I lucked out and found several Lufkin mics of different sizes from a machine shop auction and they are my go-to ones, but have a few Generals in my box as well. Thanks, Mr. Pete and Happy New Year! :-)
Slap a calibration sticker on it and call it good! I've worked at a place or two that I would have question their calibration methods. Mic like this one would be no problem passing. I dare not let them touch my micrometers! Without me right there. In fact, when it came time to re-calibrate mine, they never bothered, slapped a new sticker on them and they were good for another year! Ken
When I was an apprentice in 1975 we used Moore & Wright ...................... I was an apprentice in the UK for British Railways ....... Sheffield made was the best
That little knob on the index is a speeder knob. You can spin it between your fingers a lot faster than you can spin the main thimble. Same surface speed, higher RPM on the spindle 😁
...use as a c clamp...that caught by the me off guard and gave quite a chuckle. I'm my shop class, most of us would have been a bit rough on the kid trying it. Maybe we were too serious or lacked imagination...
4:05 Actually cleaning between the 'anvil' and the spindle. There's only one part on a mic called an anvil - and it IS NOT an anvil - So I'm calling it a datum from now on.
I feel kinda special, in my high school Automotive classes we had nothing but Starrett tools. Even when I went to Trade school for my Apprenticeship training for Automotive we used nothing but Starrett tools, it wasn't till I had been working for a few years that I saw non Starrett tools being used by some of the other guys and even those we Mitutoyo. But of course now you see all kinds being used for quick measurements that don't need to be bang on perfect lots and lots of $30 digital calipers, of course that's Canadian dollars.
Starting in 1960 I always had to buy satin chrome Brown & Sharpe slant line micrometers for my machinist chest.. No one would borrow them, if so easily identified in a Starrett favored shop. After retirement at the local auction house I bought a J. T. Slocomb Co. 0 - 1 micrometer in it's original cardboard box. The thimble is quaintly engraved with decimal equivalents, patent dates May 12, 1896 and April 13, 1897! Had never heard the brand however it is very accurate. Was this a student model?
I respect a persons opinion and as we all do, I have my opinion too, lol. If I had to rely on Starrett and the other high priced tools to work in my shop, I would have to take up fishing for a hobby because I could not afford to do what I do currently. I can also say that I am not making over engineered parts and nothing that will go to NASA. I am thankful for the tool choices we have today and with good research, I can buy good tools for me in my shop and enjoy my time spent there. On another note, companies that have the "Name" that was established 90-100 years ago are not quite the same today either. Starrett for example has manufacturing facilities in China as well as Singapore and other countries as well. Craftsman has a lot of products made in China too. Stanley comes to mind as well that used to be a respected name. I am sure this could go on and on, but isn't necessary. In summary, I buy what I can afford and the best I can afford in order to enjoy my hobby in the shop! I have no complaints out there! I do appreciate your videos and projects you make in your shop and will continues to watch them. This is not a bashing comment, just my opinion regarding tools.
For something you pick up multiple times a day, like a mic or calipers, buy the good ones. They're not much more than the cheap ones, and you'll save time, hassle, and money over time. For something like a thread mic that you may not used very often, sure get the cheap one. You can find used Starrett Mitutoyo mics for $75.
I have a National or General 2" mike bought 40+ years ago. I thought it was aluminum but maybe it is zinc. Made in Israel. Shortcoming is if you hold it in your hand for any time it can easily change reading a thou or two. But got me started, still have it, and appreciate it.
On most micrometers there are two means of adjustment. The first, rotating the sleeve is fine for small 1 or 2 increments. but how do the makers actually time the thimble to the sleeve? I can say it is most definitely not by carefully clocking the start of the threads, nor by adjusting or grinding the anvil to match 0-0. The way makers time the threads is to allow the thimble to rotate on the spindle and once 0-0 has been achieved the spindle is locked usually via a self locking taper and screw which often is part of the ratchet. The take away here is if a micrometer has the sleeve rotated far from the conventional position to read 0-0, rotate the sleeve back to the normal position. Then loosen the end screw or ratchet with a gap between spindle and anvil. Using a light tap to the ratchet or screw break the thimble free from the spindle, close up the spindle and realign the thimble to 0-0 and re-tighten the screw or ratchet.
5:00 You need your eyes testing - at 0.100, the mic is reading exactly 0.100 ! I can see that from here - and I'm in England ! It's aligned with the same mark as the 0.300 measurement.
The spin of the earth is messing with your eyes. Just joking, but it's just because you're not familiar with reading a mic. It is aligned with the same mark, the zero mark, but it's not perfectly lined up like it is with the .300" block. It's not right on. Even though it's blurry, you can see it's not. It's about 1 thou out. I screen shot it and zoomed in, just to be sure, and it's not "exactly" 100 thou.
@@xenonram It's less that a 10th off zero - the 1 thou mark is a long way off the datum ! The zero mark, if extended, would go right through the middle of the 0 - and that's pretty much aligned with the datum/cursor/mark - whatever it's called ;)
@@xenonram Do you really think it's the spin on the Earth ? Does that explain why I keep shooting bubbles of the wrong colour ? www.squidbyte.com/games_third/bubbleshooter/bubble-shooter
The Omega is likely one company and the National made the C and assembled the final. I have seen the barrels and thread by themselves in machinery used in electronics.
Imagine now you can easily get quality Chinese made micrometer with working retched faces made of carbide for around $20. Way better made then that student micrometer for less then 1/5 of the price. We have moved very far - our grandfathers never imagined owning a hobby shop with multiple machines. A lathe of decent size cost 1/10th of the price of a nice house!
My only 1" micrometer is a "General" which cost me $9.?? in 1971 + tax, but I use a Harbor freight DIAL caliper for almost everything, save comparing drill bits, screws, bolts and "rods" such as brazzing rod material that I use for other things. (which I frequently thread with a nut soldered on for a head, to be a bolt. The battery compartments of the Harbor freight DIGITAL calipers lose contact and make them intermittent, the dial calipers never quiver. I am not a machinist, I am a mechanic. (retired broadcast engineer) I watch it all, every time Mr. Stewart. Ron W4BIN
Nice video, Mr. Pete. Happy new year 🎉 5:54 Most of the measurements are one or a half thousandth over. It would be a more accurate tool if the zero point were skewed by, say 8 tenthousandths
As a lad, I had aspirations of growing up to be a "Mad Scientist." One of my first scientific instruments was a "Student Microscope" that talked my mother into ordering for me from the wonderful Welch Scientific Company catalog.
That wasn't the way my Dad worked. If he was going to buy one, it'd be a proper one (except typewriter). So our microscope came in a proper beautifully finished wooden box - with a screw in the base to hold the instrument in place while in transit and a small set of lenses.
@@xenonram That's the view of the many inept people in the world. On the rare occasions I find anyone better than me, I learn from them rather than calling them a PITA. It's just your bad attitude.
I have a set of Craftsman micrometers with the original 1959 recript.wonder who made them. Not putting a file to them. Should see if they are magnetic.
I sometimes find measuring tools in box lots at auctions. Not all of them are Starrett.I've seen some Lufkin stuff along with the Chineseium junk.I will pay better attention if I spot Brown and Sharp tools! I've had competition from resellers for those lately. As always Pete good vidyahs.
Omega was (is?) a line made by Central Tool in RI, of which National was also a mark. There are various designs over the years ranging from die cast to actual steel frame, but all Omega branded I have seen have the same basic design otherwise. Speeder knob rather than ratchet, threaded anvil with no lock screw zero adjust, no adjustment for wear. They aren't terrible. Much use will make the thread sloppy and wear the bore in the frame, and repeatability goes away, as the spindle won't stay straight and may shift axially in the thread. If you check for side play, alignment, and the squareness and flatness of the anvil and spindle ends, the price point will really show. They serve a purpose. The Welch were made by an assortment of makers including B&S and Central Tool (A much higher grade. The same adjustment as Scherr-Tumico, originated by Reed, where the lead 15mm of the thimble rotates and a fixed barrel, rather than the common, today, rotating graduated sleeve. In some ways better, actually). I have several of the Omega, as they come cheap. I replaced the anvil on one with a brass stud and attached 2m of 6Ga welding lead. Handy as a work clamp for TIG welding light gauge material, and lets me measure it at the same time :) Really messes with some of the people I work with.
In interesting video on comparative quality - thanks. Too bad the 'TH-cam advertisements' popped up over the catalog pages, preventing you from reading them.
Happy New Year Mr. Scandinavian, looking forward to a corona free 2021, 👍 and many more interesting anekdotes, stories, and teachings 🎉🍸🍗 Good luck to all 😁
when i was at tech school at Sheppard AFB they had a giant micrometer about 2-3ft wide that functioned. wasn't at all accurate though, just a teaching aid, but still cool
Great video Mr. Pete, I know I didn't get any credit for staying after but I do have one question. Will the after school information be on the test? How many times did the kids ask that question? I had one teacher reply, "If I said it in this class you can bet it will show up on the test," and then the groaning would start and there would be lots of hurried notes as we all tried to catch up. By the way, it was Mr. Hanson, our physics teacher, the BEST teacher I ever had in school.
@@mrpete222 Ours was easily distracted. He was a bombardier in WWII and certain cut-up protagonists would be heard to say, "I am not so sure that the Norden bombsite was all it was cracked up to be." From that point on the class would digress into a lecture on the complexity of that system and Mr. Hansen easily won the point by turning it into a test question on the math needed to prove it worked. Great guy, loved his class.
I have a micrometer with an unknown maker. There is no print on it except a logo. Had no luck with local tool men, or with google. Was wondering how I could send you a photo to show yourself and your subscribers?
1:44 The screw in the end is not to adjust 'zero' - that's done by loosening the clamping screw on the thimble and rotating the thimble relative to the rest of it ! Possibly why the lesser diameter knurled part unscrews so easily - so 'students' can adjust the zero without the use of tools. I checked on the Starrett website for their adjustment method and it is as you say. I find that quite bizarre. Quality tools use some kind of locking clamps on adjustments so they're not easily moved when you don't want them to be.
The feel. What of the feel? With the Starrett you have a ratchet on top of the barrel so the pressure will always be the same however with the National, as you pointed out, you do not have that. We have to trust you that the pressure is the same in each measurement taken with the National. With all Calipers and a micrometer is a type of caliper the feel is crucial at a 10th of a thousandth and very important at 1 thousandth. I do trust you but the problem is there.
This is something completely off the topic of your video, but I was so dumbfounded that I could have worked in the shop for 56 years and not have known this. One would assume that working in the inch system that just about every standard must have been pulled out out of thin air. An example would be the diameters of number sized screws, e.g. 10-24, 8-32, etc. .But there is a simple formula that gives the diameter of any size number screw including the odd ball sizes that were sometimes used in the late 1800s and early 1900s. There are only 2 things you need to know to calculate the diameter of any numbered machine screw: 1) A size "0" machine screw's diameter is 0.060" 2) Number screws increase in diameter in 0.013" steps (coincidentally almost exactly 1/3mm) To calculate the diameter of the screw then: Diameter= ((number size) x 0.013") + 0.060" For example: A #18 machine screw would be (18 x 0.013") + 0.060" = 0.294" dia. 00 and 000 screws are sized the same way except the screws decrease in size in 0.013" steps from 0.060". So a 00 screw would have a diameter of 0.047" Cheers from NC/USA
5:41 Do I comment on your misspellings of 'mic' and 'gauge' ? :) "Gage" is a nautical term: "The position of one vessel with reference to another and the wind."
@@xenonram But in 1. it would suggest a vernier caliper is a mic but it is not ! I've come across the same mic issue in relation to microphone. Done some research and it appears the 'incorrect' 'mike' is common. I'll work on that.
You call then guage blocks we call them slip guages here in the UK. Unless guage blocks are different to slip guages? Something else . . how come the US still use feet and inches? The UK "went metric" in the 70's.
Inexpensive. Not a big issue to throw in the scrap bin when it gets abused beyond usability...and it will. School budgets are tight unless it's a sports program.
@@Sizukun1 You're welcome. It was a fair question. I was taught to respect all tools by my dad. When I started working in a mill I was so often appalled at how stuff was abused. We had a man who would crank a micrometer until it read what he wanted. He broke many Starrett and Mitutoyo mics. He should've been assigned a student mic.
Every now and then, I do get the impression you miss teaching a bit.... I wish we had teachers of your caliber in my school, we only worked with wood, gypsum and sheet metal...
At least I got to play with lathes. Only the teacher used the power hacksaw and only the teacher rarely used the small shaper. No milling machine though :(
We have some old pitch micrometers at work that have that end screw for adjusting zero, I do not like that design..lol. It takes nothing to get them out of zero.👎🏻
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi Mr PETE
You pointed out ajusting the barrel, when the barrel is so tight possible corrosion, it can mess up the hole where the key fits, what we used to do is remove the thimble & put the barrel in a collet using the frame pull & twist it off, using the collet there will be no damage, clean & refit, hope that is useful. From Coventry UK 🇬🇧.
Thank you for the tip
I'll just add that having worked at a company owned by Americans National Broach later L/S Red Ring in Coventry, you would have been happy, all the measuring tools STARRETT!
We used something like that National micrometer in high school. It was perfect for that kind of abusive environment. If it was over-tightened, distorted, or just developed worn faces, it could be discarded and economically replaced. They were used for teaching how-to-read, and how-to-measure (we also had to learn to read vernier-equipped tools, like calipers and height gauges). We had no "teaching aids" except for the large wall charts provided by either Starrett or Lufkin. There were better ones available (Slocomb, I think, and in various sizes) that you could use, but only under supervision. The only actual teaching aids we had were those large, yellow slide rule analogs that were used to teach calculating using slide rules. Thanks again for the memory.
I still have my first micrometer - a Starrett No. 230. Luckily I was trained by prototype machinists who would not let me go cheap! I'm glad they were so insistent!
I was watching a Moore and Wright "projection" micrometer on ebay a while back. It was a design i never seen before, like something designed to measure depths, but not like a normal depth micrometer. A good video would be unusual measuring tools like that.
Moore and Wright .. now you are talking.
I have the same opinion regarding measuring tools. One does not need to even think about quality measurement if the Starrett brand is used. We had the National brand in HS but "graduated" to B&S in College. Starrett was used in all of my business experiences. Love the red boxes too!
That N almost looks like an R in one of the photos but that just wouldn't be rational.
MY shop teacher agrees with you. he signed off on me ordering STARRETT Micrometer set 1"-3". he had to give the ok for the VA to pay for them for my Re-training.
THANK YOU...for sharing. I too would like one of those teachers' aid micrometer just to put in my display cabinet. Probably a real treasure to find.
Mr, Pete, that was great. You don't need to Apologize to me for anything, ever!!!! I commend you for a lifetime of public service!
Thanks
My science teacher in junior high gave me a Welch catalog. I spent HOURS and HOURS browsing it. Tried to order something and they told me they only sold to schools! Lots of those teaching aids show up on eBay at incredible prices. I do have a Welch roll down periodic table of the elements which is great. Thanks, as usual, Mr. Pete and Happy New Year (hopefully 2021 will be better as we need a refund on 2020)!
Happy New Year Mr. Pete!
I actually keep an old Starrett 1" in my "general use drawer". No case or box for it but it always comes up the same--~0.0005 over on my gauge blocks. You used to be able to pick up a used Starrett 1" for dirt cheap around here but now even really ratty ones bring a good amount.
Of course I have several "good" (both Starrett and Mitutoyo and a Brown & Sharpe) ones that are kept in their original cases if I have them or in boxes that I made. I'm a woodworker, not a machinist so my precision measuring is limited to machine set-up and or repair. (I used to work on small engines too-old Wisconsin and Kohlers that were used on construction equipment-that's why I started picking up mics.)
Get them out and use them
I have retired and have asked my self why am I using crap cheap tools and keeping the good ones for best.
I have started to use and enjoy.
"No case or box for it but it always comes up the same--~0.0005 over on my gauge blocks" - so why leave it like that - get it adjusted ! That's drive me up the wall !
@@millomweb No need. It's good enough for what I use it for. When I want or need accurate measurements I'll use one of the good ones.
@@stevewilliams587 I do use them! Just don't need them for most of my work/hobbies. I keep the old one for checking the size of unmarked drill bits, and estimating the size of bolts screws and studs. It's always handy without getting one from the cabinet.
Great walk down memory lane. I am 74 and remember the cheap ones. Take care!
Happy New Year my friend. Thanks for ALL you do.
Near enough for lots of people. Good enough to keep in the travelling toolbox.
Mr Pete,
You're always the best. I agree with you totally on the owning your own tools point. To this day, I still encounter people that are half heartedly "looking" for a job as a handyman. They're fast to say, that they're experienced in most everything (IE: Jack of all trades). Then they elaborate their situation to include the fact that they currently have no tools. 10 or so years ago, in my naive youth, I would hire them, and then lend them my tools to perform whatever task needed to be accomplished. Surprisingly , at the completion of the task, if I lent them a hypothetical full set of sockets, that had a case with a space for all ot the pieces (I love stuff in fitted boxes) they would come back with two or three of the tools missing. The best part was, then they claimed that those parts were missing when I lent them the tool set.
THAT WAS THE END OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT !
Merry Christmas (Belated) and a sincerely HAPPY and HEALTHY New Year!
I'll not touch the election and blah, blah, blah...........................Please keep the shop videos coming
Sincerely,
Scott
I have known tfiefs like that
Very cool to see that it was within a thousandth for the whole range of the mic. Not expected Tubalcain
Just like Bob Hope would sing "thanks for the memories". You've made 2020 a little better with your great videos and glimpses into the past. Looking forward to seeing you again soon.
Wow, thank you!
Thank You Lyle....Mrpete222 in the morning just like my dependable old wall clock you just keep ticking and I do not have to wind you up, ha. Look forward Lyle you are so very consistent and accurate....TM
Glad to help
Good to hear from you again Mr Pete
I remember the OMEGA brand back in the 1960's as low cost, mostly imported, tools from uncommon sources such as Spain. That was a time when most imports were junk and everything good was made in USA. (Still true to a certain extent.) Remember? Good ole days.Thanks for the video.
A lot of good stuff still made in Europe, and Japan, i love mitutoyo stuff, their tools have never let me down.
Thanks MrPete for another great video. I also like the what makes it work videos. I just watched 3 more videos of yours that were really good.
1. Noga dial indicator holder
2. Dial indicator (liked seeing the different models)
3. Speedometer , liked the commentary too.
I just subscribed to blondihacks since she featured you in her Christmas video. Another really good channel.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
👍👍👍Happy new year
Question : Why don't you want to oli the threads ?
Not the Starrett oil.
One thing I learned early: time spent after school voluntarily benefited me personally. Way more to life than grades! At times my grades improved because a few nuggets were discovered then. I spent so much time with some of my college professors, that we were fast friends even after graduation. I'm with you on using quality tools. If you are familiar with the real McCoy, you can tell a fake by touch or sight.
I carried on after final exams to finish my project .. a metal working lathe.
All my mates were enjoying themselves.. swimming and smoking.
I used that lathe for years.
I'm sort of still in touch with my metalwork teacher from the late 70s.
Hi Lyle, interesting analysis. Surprisingly good for an old cheap micrometer. Fully agree, apprentices should learn with the best there is and then they can adapt much more easily to inferior versions in the future, and importantly know when to get an independent measurement when they don't trust what they see! Cheers, Jon
Good morning Mr. Pete, good video. I can say you get what you pay for in cheap. Most home shops are not making parts for NASA so cheap won't hurt to much. Hapy new year and pass the coffee.
50 years ago my shop teacher made the same joke. “Kids, this is NOT a C clamp! It’s a micrometer. “
I guess wear of the threads in a non-hardened spindel might account for the slight cover-reading in parts of the scale now.
These were probably not too bad when they were new.
Not bad for the price, considering the intended purpose.
I saw those teaching aids you made in another video. They looked great! I wonder how many are still out there? Thanks Mr Pete!
I was not aware that such things existed. I must have led a sheltered life. Thanks for another great edutainment video.
Yes
Would love to see a updated Machine shop tour ???
I got a brand-new Starratt metric on ebay for $28. You just have to watch for deals.
We used Starrett exclusively in the mill I worked in. I was glad, only the best. Then one ominous day my boss started buying a dastardly brand from Japan. Mitutoyo. I was angry he bought that JUNK. Then I started using it. Swallowed my pride. It's pretty good stuff actually. I still like the Starrett, better hand feel.😉
I realize that this is mostly a matter of opinion...I think that Mitutoyo measuring tools are vastly better than Starrett. Considerably more smooth in operation, silky smooth!
@@markclauss2314 Yes, Mitutoyo is fine. Starrett feels more balanced in my hand. Maybe it's just what I grew up with. I never liked a ratchet on a mic. I like to get a feel for one and go with that. Another instance of personal preference.
You can find great deals on those old Starrett micrometers on ebay. A man sold me a No. 436 for $11.00 because it had initials carved into it. It came with a custom made leather scabbard.
Hello Mr. Peterson,
I enjoyed that one... thank you.
Paul,,
Glad you enjoyed it
I have to thank dad for showing me how to read mics and many other things in my youth.
"Apprentices should learn with the very best".
I'm glad to hear you say that! This has always been a pet peeve of mine. WHY would anyone want to teach a "novice" on something "cheap"? The most critical point of learning anything is when you first start. I first witnessed this nonsense when it comes to musical instruments.
You can get a beginner violin for about $50 and it will sound terrible. My first acoustic guitar and piano were not quality and the sound was a bit discouraging to me as a beginner. You don't want that for someone that's just starting.
Of course, there are always exceptions. I'm sure there are some decent products made for beginners.
Thanks for all you do, Mr Pete. You are a blessing from Jesus.
I missed my bus, but I did stay after for the extra credit
detention was never this fun!
Good morning from central Florida! Thank you for the entertainment and education!
I have one of those little wrenches, but never knew it's intended use.
I suspect that was not the correct use for it !
Bizarrely, in the case of Starrett, it is !
For zeroing, the method I've come across is to loosen the 'ratchet' knob (or screw at that end) and rotating the barrel while holding the spindle from rotating. At least this way there is a positive locking clamp preventing it from slipping.
@@millomweb What other use would there be? Every new micrometer of any quality comes with a similar wrench and has a hole for it to fit into. The other end of the wrench with two tangs is for adjusting the compression nut.
@@componenx You mention the other use :)
Hi Mr. Pete, when you were counting the guage blocks, you sounded a bit like an auctioneer. Maybe you have a hidden talent? Please keep the videos coming, I. look forwarward to watching them.
I lucked out and found several Lufkin mics of different sizes from a machine shop auction and they are my go-to ones, but have a few Generals in my box as well. Thanks, Mr. Pete and Happy New Year! :-)
Slap a calibration sticker on it and call it good!
I've worked at a place or two that I would have question their calibration methods. Mic like this one would be no problem passing. I dare not let them touch my micrometers! Without me right there. In fact, when it came time to re-calibrate mine, they never bothered, slapped a new sticker on them and they were good for another year! Ken
When I was an apprentice in 1975 we used Moore & Wright ...................... I was an apprentice in the UK for British Railways ....... Sheffield made was the best
God bless you Mr. Pete! ⭐️😊👍
That little knob on the index is a speeder knob. You can spin it between your fingers a lot faster than you can spin the main thimble. Same surface speed, higher RPM on the spindle 😁
...use as a c clamp...that caught by the me off guard and gave quite a chuckle. I'm my shop class, most of us would have been a bit rough on the kid trying it. Maybe we were too serious or lacked imagination...
4:05 Actually cleaning between the 'anvil' and the spindle. There's only one part on a mic called an anvil - and it IS NOT an anvil - So I'm calling it a datum from now on.
I feel kinda special, in my high school Automotive classes we had nothing but Starrett tools. Even when I went to Trade school for my Apprenticeship training for Automotive we used nothing but Starrett tools, it wasn't till I had been working for a few years that I saw non Starrett tools being used by some of the other guys and even those we Mitutoyo. But of course now you see all kinds being used for quick measurements that don't need to be bang on perfect lots and lots of $30 digital calipers, of course that's Canadian dollars.
Starting in 1960 I always had to buy satin chrome Brown & Sharpe slant line micrometers for my machinist chest.. No one would borrow them, if so easily identified in a Starrett favored shop.
After retirement at the local auction house I bought a J. T. Slocomb Co. 0 - 1 micrometer in it's original cardboard box. The thimble is quaintly engraved with decimal equivalents, patent dates May 12, 1896 and April 13, 1897! Had never heard the brand however it is very accurate. Was this a student model?
I respect a persons opinion and as we all do, I have my opinion too, lol. If I had to rely on Starrett and the other high priced tools to work in my shop, I would have to take up fishing for a hobby because I could not afford to do what I do currently. I can also say that I am not making over engineered parts and nothing that will go to NASA. I am thankful for the tool choices we have today and with good research, I can buy good tools for me in my shop and enjoy my time spent there. On another note, companies that have the "Name" that was established 90-100 years ago are not quite the same today either. Starrett for example has manufacturing facilities in China as well as Singapore and other countries as well. Craftsman has a lot of products made in China too. Stanley comes to mind as well that used to be a respected name. I am sure this could go on and on, but isn't necessary. In summary, I buy what I can afford and the best I can afford in order to enjoy my hobby in the shop! I have no complaints out there! I do appreciate your videos and projects you make in your shop and will continues to watch them. This is not a bashing comment, just my opinion regarding tools.
For something you pick up multiple times a day, like a mic or calipers, buy the good ones. They're not much more than the cheap ones, and you'll save time, hassle, and money over time. For something like a thread mic that you may not used very often, sure get the cheap one. You can find used Starrett Mitutoyo mics for $75.
Happy New Year to you and the Mrs.
I have a National or General 2" mike bought 40+ years ago. I thought it was aluminum but maybe it is zinc. Made in Israel. Shortcoming is if you hold it in your hand for any time it can easily change reading a thou or two. But got me started, still have it, and appreciate it.
On most micrometers there are two means of adjustment. The first, rotating the sleeve is fine for small 1 or 2 increments. but how do the makers actually time the thimble to the sleeve? I can say it is most definitely not by carefully clocking the start of the threads, nor by adjusting or grinding the anvil to match 0-0. The way makers time the threads is to allow the thimble to rotate on the spindle and once 0-0 has been achieved the spindle is locked usually via a self locking taper and screw which often is part of the ratchet.
The take away here is if a micrometer has the sleeve rotated far from the conventional position to read 0-0, rotate the sleeve back to the normal position. Then loosen the end screw or ratchet with a gap between spindle and anvil. Using a light tap to the ratchet or screw break the thimble free from the spindle, close up the spindle and realign the thimble to 0-0 and re-tighten the screw or ratchet.
5:00 You need your eyes testing - at 0.100, the mic is reading exactly 0.100 ! I can see that from here - and I'm in England ! It's aligned with the same mark as the 0.300 measurement.
The spin of the earth is messing with your eyes. Just joking, but it's just because you're not familiar with reading a mic. It is aligned with the same mark, the zero mark, but it's not perfectly lined up like it is with the .300" block. It's not right on. Even though it's blurry, you can see it's not. It's about 1 thou out. I screen shot it and zoomed in, just to be sure, and it's not "exactly" 100 thou.
@@xenonram It's less that a 10th off zero - the 1 thou mark is a long way off the datum ! The zero mark, if extended, would go right through the middle of the 0 - and that's pretty much aligned with the datum/cursor/mark - whatever it's called ;)
@@xenonram Do you really think it's the spin on the Earth ? Does that explain why I keep shooting bubbles of the wrong colour ?
www.squidbyte.com/games_third/bubbleshooter/bubble-shooter
The Omega is likely one company and the National made the C and assembled the final. I have seen the barrels and thread by themselves in machinery used in electronics.
Imagine now you can easily get quality Chinese made micrometer with working retched faces made of carbide for around $20. Way better made then that student micrometer for less then 1/5 of the price. We have moved very far - our grandfathers never imagined owning a hobby shop with multiple machines. A lathe of decent size cost 1/10th of the price of a nice house!
My only 1" micrometer is a "General" which cost me $9.?? in 1971 + tax, but I use a Harbor freight DIAL caliper for almost everything, save comparing drill bits, screws, bolts and "rods" such as brazzing rod material that I use for other things. (which I frequently thread with a nut soldered on for a head, to be a bolt. The battery compartments of the Harbor freight DIGITAL calipers lose contact and make them intermittent, the dial calipers never quiver. I am not a machinist, I am a mechanic. (retired broadcast engineer) I watch it all, every time Mr. Stewart. Ron W4BIN
👍👍
Nice video, Mr. Pete. Happy new year 🎉 5:54 Most of the measurements are one or a half thousandth over. It would be a more accurate tool if the zero point were skewed by, say 8 tenthousandths
As a lad, I had aspirations of growing up to be a "Mad Scientist." One of my first scientific instruments was a "Student Microscope" that talked my mother into ordering for me from the wonderful Welch Scientific Company catalog.
That wasn't the way my Dad worked. If he was going to buy one, it'd be a proper one (except typewriter). So our microscope came in a proper beautifully finished wooden box - with a screw in the base to hold the instrument in place while in transit and a small set of lenses.
@@millomweb cool story. Judging by all your comments, you've got a real love of being a PITA.
@@xenonram That's the view of the many inept people in the world. On the rare occasions I find anyone better than me, I learn from them rather than calling them a PITA. It's just your bad attitude.
I have a set of Craftsman micrometers with the original 1959 recript.wonder who made them. Not putting a file to them. Should see if they are magnetic.
C-clamp! I caught my son doing that. Did HE catch h***! Very nice presentation Mr. Pete.
Very interesting! Thanks Mr. Pete! God bless my friend.
Glad you enjoyed it
How about a tour seeing guard blocks made. I bet the last step is hand honed.
What is the variance of the gage block for thermal change?
I sometimes find measuring tools in box lots at auctions. Not all of them are Starrett.I've seen some Lufkin stuff along with the Chineseium junk.I will pay better attention if I spot Brown and Sharp tools! I've had competition from resellers for those lately. As always Pete good vidyahs.
Thanks
Omega was (is?) a line made by Central Tool in RI, of which National was also a mark. There are various designs over the years ranging from die cast to actual steel frame, but all Omega branded I have seen have the same basic design otherwise. Speeder knob rather than ratchet, threaded anvil with no lock screw zero adjust, no adjustment for wear. They aren't terrible. Much use will make the thread sloppy and wear the bore in the frame, and repeatability goes away, as the spindle won't stay straight and may shift axially in the thread. If you check for side play, alignment, and the squareness and flatness of the anvil and spindle ends, the price point will really show. They serve a purpose. The Welch were made by an assortment of makers including B&S and Central Tool (A much higher grade. The same adjustment as Scherr-Tumico, originated by Reed, where the lead 15mm of the thimble rotates and a fixed barrel, rather than the common, today, rotating graduated sleeve. In some ways better, actually). I have several of the Omega, as they come cheap. I replaced the anvil on one with a brass stud and attached 2m of 6Ga welding lead. Handy as a work clamp for TIG welding light gauge material, and lets me measure it at the same time :) Really messes with some of the people I work with.
Thank you for And interesting Little history lesson on micrometers
No credit for after-school work! I'm going to complain to the principal.
My student micrometer was a Federal I haven't seen too many of that manufacturers tools around any more.
4:20 ... coffee I.V. today? 🙃
The "Sawyer" made cheap mic I got from Grizzly is about .001out at full open
In interesting video on comparative quality - thanks. Too bad the 'TH-cam advertisements' popped up over the catalog pages, preventing you from reading them.
I agree. If it is not Starrett, Starr ett nothing, but maybe B&S
Answer me this: Why don't depth micrometers read in ten-thousandths graduations instead of only one-thousandths? I never could figure that out.
Happy New Year Mr. Scandinavian, looking forward to a corona free 2021, 👍 and many more interesting anekdotes, stories, and teachings
🎉🍸🍗 Good luck to all 😁
I often stayed after school to right lines for punishment. The lines were contained, "I will not do this again."
apparently they didn't help with the spelling huh?
So how much did Peterstone Products charge ?
when i was at tech school at Sheppard AFB they had a giant micrometer about 2-3ft wide that functioned. wasn't at all accurate though, just a teaching aid, but still cool
I stayed after school. Two thumbs up on the video.
Thanks
Great video Mr. Pete, I know I didn't get any credit for staying after but I do have one question. Will the after school information be on the test? How many times did the kids ask that question? I had one teacher reply, "If I said it in this class you can bet it will show up on the test," and then the groaning would start and there would be lots of hurried notes as we all tried to catch up. By the way, it was Mr. Hanson, our physics teacher, the BEST teacher I ever had in school.
Yes, It will be on the test. I am glad you had a good teacher My physics teacher was not very good. We called him orville bower , The big brown bear.
@@mrpete222 Ours was easily distracted. He was a bombardier in WWII and certain cut-up protagonists would be heard to say, "I am not so sure that the Norden bombsite was all it was cracked up to be." From that point on the class would digress into a lecture on the complexity of that system and Mr. Hansen easily won the point by turning it into a test question on the math needed to prove it worked. Great guy, loved his class.
Interesting, and encouraging.
Thanks.
my shop teacher told us if we drop our mic, he'll fix it 1 time only and if it's dropped again it's trash and we'd have to buy a replacement ourself
I have a micrometer with an unknown maker. There is no print on it except a logo. Had no luck with local tool men, or with google. Was wondering how I could send you a photo to show yourself and your subscribers?
Yes, send a picture
That Starrett looks good enough to eat.
1:44 The screw in the end is not to adjust 'zero' - that's done by loosening the clamping screw on the thimble and rotating the thimble relative to the rest of it ! Possibly why the lesser diameter knurled part unscrews so easily - so 'students' can adjust the zero without the use of tools.
I checked on the Starrett website for their adjustment method and it is as you say. I find that quite bizarre. Quality tools use some kind of locking clamps on adjustments so they're not easily moved when you don't want them to be.
Nope, Starrett makes plenty on mics without locking rings.
@@xenonram But good quality manufacturers all use a locking mechanism on adjustments like that.
So, the student grade unit IS a C clamp that doubles as an approximate measuring device. 😉
Plus 0.001" minus nothing isn't approximate is it
I laughed out loud when you mentined using a good micrometer as a C clamp.
Yes
The feel. What of the feel? With the Starrett you have a ratchet on top of the barrel so the pressure will always be the same however with the National, as you pointed out, you do not have that. We have to trust you that the pressure is the same in each measurement taken with the National. With all Calipers and a micrometer is a type of caliper the feel is crucial at a 10th of a thousandth and very important at 1 thousandth. I do trust you but the problem is there.
lol mine goes down to the millionth have to have it checked every week!
This is something completely off the topic of your video, but I was so dumbfounded that I could have worked in the shop for 56 years and not have known this. One would assume that working in the inch system that just about every standard must have been pulled out out of thin air. An example would be the diameters of number sized screws, e.g. 10-24, 8-32, etc. .But there is a simple formula that gives the diameter of any size number screw including the odd ball sizes that were sometimes used in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
There are only 2 things you need to know to calculate the diameter of any numbered machine screw:
1) A size "0" machine screw's diameter is 0.060"
2) Number screws increase in diameter in 0.013" steps (coincidentally almost exactly 1/3mm)
To calculate the diameter of the screw then: Diameter= ((number size) x 0.013") + 0.060"
For example: A #18 machine screw would be (18 x 0.013") + 0.060" = 0.294" dia.
00 and 000 screws are sized the same way except the screws decrease in size in 0.013" steps from 0.060". So a 00 screw would have a diameter of 0.047"
Cheers from NC/USA
Very interesting. I did not know that
For metric users the formula is just as simple:
Dmm=( #size x .333mm) + 1.5mm
The result is better than 99.6% of the true value.
I thought welders were the only ones who used them for c clamps! Lol!
5:41 Do I comment on your misspellings of 'mic' and 'gauge' ? :)
"Gage" is a nautical term: "The position of one vessel with reference to another and the wind."
Thanks
Nice try. Mike and mic are both proper. In fact, dictionary dot com specifically lists mine but not mic.
www.dictionary.com/browse/micrometer#:~:text=Also%20called%20mike.,turning%20shafts%20or%20boring%20holes.
@@xenonram But in 1. it would suggest a vernier caliper is a mic but it is not !
I've come across the same mic issue in relation to microphone.
Done some research and it appears the 'incorrect' 'mike' is common. I'll work on that.
You call then guage blocks we call them slip guages here in the UK.
Unless guage blocks are different to slip guages?
Something else . . how come the US still use feet and inches?
The UK "went metric" in the 70's.
I have a mike that is so worn you can move the barrel ten thou back and forth.
How would you make the wax pattern? Or how would you make the styrofoam pattern? You talk about difficult
Fishing weight.
@@mrpete222 I think you replied to the wrong comment I may be wrong
Another stay after class& no extra credit.
Well why is it called a student or apprentice micrometer?
Inexpensive. Not a big issue to throw in the scrap bin when it gets abused beyond usability...and it will. School budgets are tight unless it's a sports program.
@@ohmbug10 Makes sense. Thanks!
@@Sizukun1 You're welcome. It was a fair question. I was taught to respect all tools by my dad. When I started working in a mill I was so often appalled at how stuff was abused. We had a man who would crank a micrometer until it read what he wanted. He broke many Starrett and Mitutoyo mics. He should've been assigned a student mic.
Morning sir
Nowadays, we can get inexpensive chinese micrometers for the same price of these student ones...
Every now and then, I do get the impression you miss teaching a bit....
I wish we had teachers of your caliber in my school, we only worked with wood, gypsum and sheet metal...
At least I got to play with lathes. Only the teacher used the power hacksaw and only the teacher rarely used the small shaper. No milling machine though :(
We have some old pitch micrometers at work that have that end screw for adjusting zero, I do not like that design..lol. It takes nothing to get them out of zero.👎🏻
Better than a a cheap digital Chinese made caliper..