The easiest nerf I think would be that after the quest reward, damage dealt to yourself ALSO damages an opponent, not INSTEAD. This way you would have to heal not only through quest damage, but all other damage needed to kill your opponent. Plus it woulnd kill the flavour
@@ExtraDip613 Good. The Demon Seed is one of the most toxic cards they've ever printed. Fundamentally flawed, unfun to face, completely uninteractive. It must die. Burn it with fire.
@@Raven. boring yes, but at least you could make some variety. On the other hand Stormwind was just stupidly overturned, solitaire decks…. I think that expansion made more people uninstall Hearthstone than anything else….
Stormwind was by far the most power crept expansion ever. Rastakhan was the opposite; the set was so weak that virtually only one card made a big impact on the meta. I’d argue stormwind was more problematic because it completely warped the meta into an unfun state, whereas rastakhan at least had the previous expansions to piggyback off of
I still fully believe they need to shift its functionality from transferring damage to sharing damage. Warlock still takes the hit, but so does opponent. Very much the feeling of "if I'm going down, I'm taking you with me!"
Craziest thing about this deck back in the standard era was that i more than often didn’t lose to the self-damage transferal, but rather the giant broom shenanigans, those damn questline lifesteal ticks
@@LeiderMurillo99 I agree with this tbh we are now in an Era where frost lich Jaina is basically useless so I have no qualms giving the demons life steal
They could nerf this quest by making each part "discard 2 cards", and the reward could be a 5 mana spell that opens a portal. (The portal summons two 3/2 imps each turn)
cyrstallizer and raise dead reminded me of one game i had with a demon seed deck... turn 1: play quest turn 2: play 2x crystallizer (part 1 complete ) turn 3: kill both to opponents 3/2 minion, tap, raise dead, crystallizer (part 2 complete) turn 4: tap, raise dead, crystallizer (part 3 complete) turn 5: play quest reward turn 6: brann, 2x crystallizer, spirit bomb grand total of 30 damage to the enemy face from all of this...
@@zakmaklak nah i actually managed to get this exactly one time and usual games are nowhere close to this lucky... and i have played several hundred matches with the deck... though i have remade the deck a couple times and one of the alterations made me remove brann since it was mostly a dead card before the quest completion due to how much self hurt i was able to do with its assistance....
This is exactly the reason why I don't hate hyper aggro decks. In wild shadow priest would've eaten this guy's ass... but I'm not sure about the version we have today...
@@Cuestrupaster personally i hate hyper aggressive decks cause you need to have a counter you can play against them in hand or you are fucked... With decks that have a goal in mind besides just fill the board fast there's at least something you can try to do to counter them... Except boar priest is something absolutely disgusting cause you can't kill the boars or play anything they can kill the boars on to... So there is about no way to counter...
an idea i think can work is the questline reward being like a 3/1 lifesteal with "after this deals damage, die!" (insted of deal 3 with lifesteal letting u poke it to reduce the healing) and make the 7/7 have lifesteal then make it so u summon a demon with stats insted of taking damage with maybe insted of lifesteal it has something like "heal for half of damage dealt" has it forces heal to be in deck and ad the quest then can be like 5/6/7 or 6/7/8 to finish lets it be strong and really not kill a deck but really slows it down (maybe if this change kills the deck add rush to the demons summoned so it heals u for half of what u deal and maybe make it only heal on your turn and not the first turn it deals damage or something like that)
At this point I think the only way to balance the demon seed is to make the reward heal you instead of taking damage from your cards, that way it would no longer be a win condition
Maybe it should be limited to damage you directly take from your own cards. This would take fatigue and damage your opponent's cards deal during your turn out of the equation at least
The thing with The demon seed is the more card they add to help substain the dmg you do to yourself the more likely the card will became powerful. And since all card which also dmg to yourself come with high benefit like card draw/also hero power who do the same, you are less likely to pay the price from bad draw.
It may make the card inconsistent with other quest lines but i think changing the final reward from a battlecry effect to a death rattle effect could also slow things down
Druid did not have many problems with Demon seed before introduction of "draw two shuffle two" card. Double Naturalize played at right time could easily fatigue warlock to death, as quest only works on his turn. But now, when instead of fatigue infinite self-damage and broken tempo is a key to victory... Idk how to counter it.
yeah i was just thinking about how badly designed that questline is, i dont think there was ever a time where it was "balanced", it was either meta breaking, banned or just terrible
@@locogato3488 yeah i dont know why they keep dancing aroudnd the problem by nerfing the support cards if they're just going to print better support later
Please just make the damn tamsin card say 'opponent takes it *too*' that way ql warlocks kill themselves to kill their opponents and they really need to spec into healing to use tamsin to win the game. That, I would say, would be the first step in the right direction.
The Demon Seed is already not banned, so you mean after they ban it, they should make a copy of Wild but with The Demon Seed unbanned? That would be just Questline Warlock mirror matches because there wouldn't be a reason to play any other deck when you can play in normal Wild instead.
Yes. Yes of course. Blizzard can just rotate all the cards that are problematic for Wild to this new format, thus solving the problem once and for all!
So you want a Legacy and Vintage split that Magic the Gathering has? Which for those who don't know Legacy allows all sets but has a ban list meanwhile Vintage has only a restricted list with select cards being banned(Usually for being fundamentally incompatible with both Legacy and Vintage like Shahrazad).
I wish bans worked in a way that you couldnt have a certain combination of cards in your deck. I guess discover/random gen could still get the cards but I think it would help the meta
The quest lines are hit and miss, but the problem of banning demon seed is that it's always going to be broken . Banning it brings up , open the waygate as a location or out right banned . This creates just an awful domino effect of which cards get banned . Plus botting is still a problem
I think 75% of the issue is the questline and 25% is that just like in magic the gathering, when they print standard or commander cards, they don't test them for modern or legacy. It really feels like none of the standard cards are ever tested for wild, only the caverns of time cards were thought through at all. Between bots swarming and a few specific decks in both standard and wild this past week, we are seeing streamers take a break and that is a major concern for the company and players.
I think in wild Blizzard needs to start banning quite a few problem cards i.e The Demon Seed, Secret Passage, Patches the Pirate etc. Cards that have consistently dominated some of the most broken decks and archetypes throughout Hearthstone's history.
I love control decks and my problem with it as you mentioned, they just chill at 1 dmg away from completing it and then they complete it and play it instantly i never had a chance to dirty rat it because of it, thats the worst feeling
Maybe a nerf to the Tamsin could be every 5 damage you take you deal 3 damage with lifesteal to the enemy hero? That way it still rewards you for self damaging but you cannot be super reckless
he didnt reward you for self dmg. It only make the self dmg not so big. Al 5 dmg you get 3 dmg back and heal 3. Thats not a reward when you also lost in the end 2 life. Its more like "makes the punishment smaller" . Not to forgett when you wish to kill the card after a nerf for that exist better ways.
@Sorra1-Mods I mean I just feel the reward for self damaging cards is that they are supposed to be better for the mana cost. So negating some of the damage from them should be a reqard. That being said it is just a suggestion, I sure there are better solutions out there that I can't think of.
I've always despised the design of quests. They always start in your hand and are uninteractible whenever the player piloting the deck has more experience and understands they can hold off on completion until they can play the reward on the same turn to bypass any Dirty Rat effects. When they are too good, you play Solitaire. I don't understand why they haven't reworked this card already. Just because it doesn't see Meta play doesn't mean it's well-designed or fixed the problems. Stormwind is the worst designed expansion in Hearthstone.
I actually just thought of a way to kill the current demon seed meta pretty decisively. Make it so that taking hits to armor doesn't count for the quest. It has to be health. That would take out a big part of crystalizer's usefulness I think.
@@zakmaklak Why would it be weird? "Battlecry: Convert 5 of your Hero's Health into Armor." sounds fine, it has better synegry with healing and it no longer works with self damage cards, I don't get what's weird about it.
@@locogato3488 tekal did not deal dmg bcs it was not fixed value. in general making interaction dissapear (like literaly disapear) is simply wierd. telling to the interaction "nuh uh" never hapaned and never will hapen (I am not talking about LITERALY game breaking combos that crashed the game)
Every quest and questline just needs to get the axe in wild. They are known design mistakes, and promote incredibly toxic gameplay. It's time to appropriately deal with them.
Great video! I love this card personally, but can see how it's problematic. A suggestion I have is to revert the card to its original form in terms of requirements, but nerf Tamsin to instead damage your opponent as well as yourself, or split self-damage across both players. That would force more interesting situations where you still have to watch your own health but still get the thrill of damaging your opponent in an interesting and unique way.
Just ban the damn thing or do a rework like heal your face instead etc. I have it golden in my collection and I don't mind getting a dust refund and have the card completely removed from the game for good but I just quitted playing the game after the quest rework and even if I return I'll probably return to standard. Wild is destined to be broken and it keeps getting butchered every expansion these days. Doesn't make any sense to play that format anymore.
I have loved this card ever since it got printed and as much as I love the deck it needs a really big nerf. I've seen a couple suggestions for a nerf like "Also damages the enemy hero" and not instead. This would absolutely kill the card. What I suggest is nerf Tamsins cost to 7 or even 8 mana. Slow and control decks can Disrupt while aggro has a chance to run you down.
Reduce the questline requirements and change Tamsin's battlecry to: For the rest of the game, first time you take damage on your turn damages your opponent instead
While yeah I agree that Blightborn Tamsin (And almost all the "Rest of the game" effects) are terrible design.. I was watching Rarran play tons of Demon Seed games yesterday and 90% of the games were won before the questline reward was even played
They should just ban it, most other card games have perma banned cards that are problematic, why can't hearthstone do the same? Why do they need to nerf it to unusability, instead of just banning it? It saves the devs time.
Other card games are physical. You still have the pieces of cardboard even if the card is unplayable. In digital you could as well delete it from the game if it's useless.
Hey Zeddy, why everybody stopped talking about weakly quests?! We need to make it clear to blizzard that this minor change won’t slide in!!!Could you make another video about the quest problem?
What if you make tamsin 10 mana? Itll allow counterplay in most cases since they most likely won't be able to take the final damage without spending mana, and when they do its not so consistent allowing you to dirty rat etc. Also 10 mana in wild is quite slow for a 7/7
Precisely why it should be banned. Getting people who are nowhere near the skill level of legend, to legend with broken af cards is definitely going to kill the game.
@@wschess and they'll print another card that'll break it again. It's one of the most unfun and terribly designed cards in the game and it just needs to be banned and never be made again
@@matthewjecelin8358 if you can't complete the quest without dying, good luck having a 1 mana do nothing in your starting hand. I know, cards aren't designed for wild, but oh man breaking 13/13/13 that's actually 14/14/14 is hard. You need Renathal and Renathal questline warlock is just not that good
I dont know, why they didn't make it so you just simply can't take self damage on your turn and thats it. No damage reflection - no disbalance Or maybe make it so self damage heal you instead, if questline reward will be too weak.
Deck now is weak as hell and there’s no point in playing it. Now you have no win condition, dealt 30 damage to face for no reason. There is no fixing the self damage archetype.
Just a genuinely badly designed card. It's extremely uninteractive while also being extremely consistent. The fact that your hero doesn't take damage once you complete the quest really goes against warlock's flavor as a class. I'd argue it should be set to 10/15/20 damage for the reward and/or set the cost of Tamsin to 10. This is a card that would be much better as a joking meme card that isn't playable. One that's difficult to pull off, but because it's so difficult, you can afford for the card itself to provide a fairly uninteractive reward. Like Moarg Cultist or Mecha'Thun or Desert Obelisk.
It’s just such a bad design. I remember only a handful of content creators and players were saying it would be broken and most others writing them off saying it would be very mid to trash…..lmao 😂 The only other questline that makes me want to uninstall is defend the dwarven district. But it’s still second compared to this degenerate card…..
The easiest nerf I think would be that after the quest reward, damage dealt to yourself ALSO damages an opponent, not INSTEAD. This way you would have to heal not only through quest damage, but all other damage needed to kill your opponent. Plus it woulnd kill the flavour
Either that or "each turn, the first time your hero takes damage on your turn".
that would kill the card and the deck is already struggling
@@ExtraDip613 Good. The Demon Seed is one of the most toxic cards they've ever printed. Fundamentally flawed, unfun to face, completely uninteractive. It must die. Burn it with fire.
@@ExtraDip613”struggling” sure dude. Sure.
@@popeneiad7968 it is low tier2. demon seed loses to all the good rogue decks all 4 of them are tier 1 currently
Stormwind is the worst set that ever got released.
Personal preference really, but nothing was worse than Rastakhan's Rumble. The most boring fucking meta I can remember.
@@Raven. boring yes, but at least you could make some variety. On the other hand Stormwind was just stupidly overturned, solitaire decks…. I think that expansion made more people uninstall Hearthstone than anything else….
Stormwind was by far the most power crept expansion ever. Rastakhan was the opposite; the set was so weak that virtually only one card made a big impact on the meta. I’d argue stormwind was more problematic because it completely warped the meta into an unfun state, whereas rastakhan at least had the previous expansions to piggyback off of
@@pikac4581 what was the impactful Rastakhan card again? Zul'jin? Spirit of the Frog?
@@robertlupa8273 Master’s Call, hunter card that made beast hunter tier 1
I still fully believe they need to shift its functionality from transferring damage to sharing damage. Warlock still takes the hit, but so does opponent. Very much the feeling of "if I'm going down, I'm taking you with me!"
Craziest thing about this deck back in the standard era was that i more than often didn’t lose to the self-damage transferal, but rather the giant broom shenanigans, those damn questline lifesteal ticks
Yea I think they should change the questline rewards before Tamsin. It does a full deal 6 lifesteal swing which is pretty reliable
You forgot to mention the basic change to Warlock where losing life is now different from taking damage.
Yea that’s why they were able to revert Stealer of Souls
"Paying health" is different from "taking damage", the difference is minor but important
To be fair that change was made to rework the interaction between becoming immune and paying health, which just so happened to hit the Questline.
_"For the rest of the game, after you take damage on your turn, summon a Demon with that many stats."_
Boom. No instant face damage.
Underrated comment right here! Demon seed needs its effect errata'd. you cannot reasonably balance this cards effect
That would be a terrible reward. It should be fully reverted to 6,7,8 if that’s the case.
@@Begeru well yeah I figured that would have been a reasonable assumption for making this effect much weaker
I will add that the demon has lifesteal.
@@LeiderMurillo99 I agree with this tbh we are now in an Era where frost lich Jaina is basically useless so I have no qualms giving the demons life steal
They could nerf this quest by making each part "discard 2 cards", and the reward could be a 5 mana spell that opens a portal. (The portal summons two 3/2 imps each turn)
Not good enough.
I think it's better if it's only a 1 part quest with all the requirements concentrated in one step.
cyrstallizer and raise dead reminded me of one game i had with a demon seed deck...
turn 1: play quest
turn 2: play 2x crystallizer (part 1 complete )
turn 3: kill both to opponents 3/2 minion, tap, raise dead, crystallizer (part 2 complete)
turn 4: tap, raise dead, crystallizer (part 3 complete)
turn 5: play quest reward
turn 6: brann, 2x crystallizer, spirit bomb
grand total of 30 damage to the enemy face from all of this...
turn 7: wake up this would be way 2 lucky
@@zakmaklak nah i actually managed to get this exactly one time and usual games are nowhere close to this lucky... and i have played several hundred matches with the deck... though i have remade the deck a couple times and one of the alterations made me remove brann since it was mostly a dead card before the quest completion due to how much self hurt i was able to do with its assistance....
Goku's spirit bomb? :D
This is exactly the reason why I don't hate hyper aggro decks. In wild shadow priest would've eaten this guy's ass... but I'm not sure about the version we have today...
@@Cuestrupaster personally i hate hyper aggressive decks cause you need to have a counter you can play against them in hand or you are fucked... With decks that have a goal in mind besides just fill the board fast there's at least something you can try to do to counter them... Except boar priest is something absolutely disgusting cause you can't kill the boars or play anything they can kill the boars on to... So there is about no way to counter...
the issue it's the cart itself, it should have never been printed
an idea i think can work is the questline reward being like a 3/1 lifesteal with "after this deals damage, die!" (insted of deal 3 with lifesteal letting u poke it to reduce the healing) and make the 7/7 have lifesteal then make it so u summon a demon with stats insted of taking damage with maybe insted of lifesteal it has something like "heal for half of damage dealt" has it forces heal to be in deck and ad the quest then can be like 5/6/7 or 6/7/8 to finish lets it be strong and really not kill a deck but really slows it down (maybe if this change kills the deck add rush to the demons summoned so it heals u for half of what u deal and maybe make it only heal on your turn and not the first turn it deals damage or something like that)
I was thinking that changing it to count instances of dmg taken your turn, instead of amount of dmg taken would slow it enough to make it fair
At this point I think the only way to balance the demon seed is to make the reward heal you instead of taking damage from your cards, that way it would no longer be a win condition
1. it would make game missarable to play bcs how pasive this deck would be
2. quests suposed to be winconditions
Don't turn warlock into priest 😭
Maybe it should be limited to damage you directly take from your own cards. This would take fatigue and damage your opponent's cards deal during your turn out of the equation at least
Change the quest line procs to 5 damage, tamsin Battlecry to “Your hero can’t be damaged on your turn”
The thing with The demon seed is the more card they add to help substain the dmg you do to yourself the more likely the card will became powerful. And since all card which also dmg to yourself come with high benefit like card draw/also hero power who do the same, you are less likely to pay the price from bad draw.
It may make the card inconsistent with other quest lines but i think changing the final reward from a battlecry effect to a death rattle effect could also slow things down
one of the best content of hearthstone will thought, will written, will presented. keep up the good work zeddy.
Druid did not have many problems with Demon seed before introduction of "draw two shuffle two" card. Double Naturalize played at right time could easily fatigue warlock to death, as quest only works on his turn.
But now, when instead of fatigue infinite self-damage and broken tempo is a key to victory... Idk how to counter it.
I'm new to Hearthstone, so I really appreciate these videos about the history.
yeah i was just thinking about how badly designed that questline is, i dont think there was ever a time where it was "balanced", it was either meta breaking, banned or just terrible
It was the first card to banned in Wild, I think that really shows how broken it was and still is.
@@locogato3488 yeah i dont know why they keep dancing aroudnd the problem by nerfing the support cards if they're just going to print better support later
@@scaleymf At this point they should just delete it from the game.
I think the mini rewards are also a problem no one talks about. Lifesteal deal 3 helps a lot for survival
The first darkglare and fleshgiant nerf was in scholo/darkmoon, so the demon seed wasn't in the game yet
Fleshgiant went to 9 mana during Stormwind in Standard then to 10, it was not nerfed in Scholomance.
@@phoenix7646 Weird... I stop playing in Darkmon and came back in Festival of Legends, fake Memories I guess
Please just make the damn tamsin card say 'opponent takes it *too*' that way ql warlocks kill themselves to kill their opponents and they really need to spec into healing to use tamsin to win the game. That, I would say, would be the first step in the right direction.
We need super wild. A new version of wild where demon seed isnt banned
The Demon Seed is already not banned, so you mean after they ban it, they should make a copy of Wild but with The Demon Seed unbanned?
That would be just Questline Warlock mirror matches because there wouldn't be a reason to play any other deck when you can play in normal Wild instead.
Yes. Yes of course. Blizzard can just rotate all the cards that are problematic for Wild to this new format, thus solving the problem once and for all!
Demon Seed is the Mega Rayquaza of Hearthstone.
If they unnerf things in this mode, probably frog shaman would kill you turn 2/3
So you want a Legacy and Vintage split that Magic the Gathering has?
Which for those who don't know Legacy allows all sets but has a ban list meanwhile Vintage has only a restricted list with select cards being banned(Usually for being fundamentally incompatible with both Legacy and Vintage like Shahrazad).
I like that runed mythril rod was nerfed because of the questline for Zddy even though it was one of the craziest mana cheat of its time
I wish bans worked in a way that you couldnt have a certain combination of cards in your deck. I guess discover/random gen could still get the cards but I think it would help the meta
I think if you take away the lifesteal quest reward? It will make it more vulnerable
The quest lines are hit and miss, but the problem of banning demon seed is that it's always going to be broken . Banning it brings up , open the waygate as a location or out right banned . This creates just an awful domino effect of which cards get banned . Plus botting is still a problem
Revert the card to original state and change text to ”damage from your cards and hero power”
Excellent idea. That way, they still take fatigue damage.
@n00dle_ow it really doesn't help against spamming mass production tho
@@grizzgreen6821you're right. no it sure doesn't help with that.
I think 75% of the issue is the questline and 25% is that just like in magic the gathering, when they print standard or commander cards, they don't test them for modern or legacy. It really feels like none of the standard cards are ever tested for wild, only the caverns of time cards were thought through at all. Between bots swarming and a few specific decks in both standard and wild this past week, we are seeing streamers take a break and that is a major concern for the company and players.
I think in wild Blizzard needs to start banning quite a few problem cards i.e The Demon Seed, Secret Passage, Patches the Pirate etc. Cards that have consistently dominated some of the most broken decks and archetypes throughout Hearthstone's history.
i dunno if it's doable but i would change it to "damage you take from YOUR CARDS on your turn"
It should give you a hero power which has the effect of
I love control decks and my problem with it as you mentioned, they just chill at 1 dmg away from completing it and then they complete it and play it instantly i never had a chance to dirty rat it because of it, thats the worst feeling
Keep up the good work Zeddy
Upcoming nerf leak: Questline: Destroy YOUR hero. Reward: Blightborn Tamsin
What if it didn't count fatigue damage? It would keep the self damage synergy but it would lose the inevitability of fatigue.
theyll just rely on the new draw card
Maybe a nerf to the Tamsin could be every 5 damage you take you deal 3 damage with lifesteal to the enemy hero? That way it still rewards you for self damaging but you cannot be super reckless
he didnt reward you for self dmg. It only make the self dmg not so big. Al 5 dmg you get 3 dmg back and heal 3. Thats not a reward when you also lost in the end 2 life. Its more like "makes the punishment smaller" . Not to forgett when you wish to kill the card after a nerf for that exist better ways.
@Sorra1-Mods I mean I just feel the reward for self damaging cards is that they are supposed to be better for the mana cost. So negating some of the damage from them should be a reqard. That being said it is just a suggestion, I sure there are better solutions out there that I can't think of.
Sharing the damage won't even be thematically off... the card voiceline literally says "all of stormwind will *share* my pain".
Been playing since gadgetzan. The demon seed made me quit for 2 years. Glad I can play standard without that card. I’ll never touch wild.
I've always despised the design of quests. They always start in your hand and are uninteractible whenever the player piloting the deck has more experience and understands they can hold off on completion until they can play the reward on the same turn to bypass any Dirty Rat effects.
When they are too good, you play Solitaire. I don't understand why they haven't reworked this card already. Just because it doesn't see Meta play doesn't mean it's well-designed or fixed the problems. Stormwind is the worst designed expansion in Hearthstone.
What about a card that can silence a global effect? Would be great in standard with the bran issue as well xD
What if fatigue damage wouldn’t work with the demon seed anymore, that would mean they have to kill you with self damage cards
I actually just thought of a way to kill the current demon seed meta pretty decisively. Make it so that taking hits to armor doesn't count for the quest. It has to be health. That would take out a big part of crystalizer's usefulness I think.
honestly this is very good idea
Crystalizer should just convert 5 Health into Armor like Thekal, so it doesn't even count as damage.
@@locogato3488 it would be simply wierd
@@zakmaklak Why would it be weird?
"Battlecry: Convert 5 of your Hero's Health into Armor." sounds fine, it has better synegry with healing and it no longer works with self damage cards, I don't get what's weird about it.
@@locogato3488 tekal did not deal dmg bcs it was not fixed value. in general making interaction dissapear (like literaly disapear) is simply wierd.
telling to the interaction "nuh uh" never hapaned and never will hapen (I am not talking about LITERALY game breaking combos that crashed the game)
No card in this game should read: For the rest of the game, ever.
I mean, I wouldn't say it's out of control right now. It isn't even considered a tier 2 deck in the one format you can play it in thanks to Rogue.
Every quest and questline just needs to get the axe in wild. They are known design mistakes, and promote incredibly toxic gameplay. It's time to appropriately deal with them.
What about to change: Fór rest of game, damage you would take during your turn will oponent take too, same amount
Great video! I love this card personally, but can see how it's problematic.
A suggestion I have is to revert the card to its original form in terms of requirements, but nerf Tamsin to instead damage your opponent as well as yourself, or split self-damage across both players. That would force more interesting situations where you still have to watch your own health but still get the thrill of damaging your opponent in an interesting and unique way.
Great video. Keep it up
Just ban the damn thing or do a rework like heal your face instead etc. I have it golden in my collection and I don't mind getting a dust refund and have the card completely removed from the game for good but I just quitted playing the game after the quest rework and even if I return I'll probably return to standard. Wild is destined to be broken and it keeps getting butchered every expansion these days. Doesn't make any sense to play that format anymore.
Pain warlock still one of the best decks in standard even without the demon seed's help
Too much crying here, demon seed isnt even tier 1 at legend, the top 5 decks are 4 rogue decks and 1 paladin, stop saying bs
I have loved this card ever since it got printed and as much as I love the deck it needs a really big nerf.
I've seen a couple suggestions for a nerf like "Also damages the enemy hero" and not instead. This would absolutely kill the card. What I suggest is nerf Tamsins cost to 7 or even 8 mana. Slow and control decks can Disrupt while aggro has a chance to run you down.
Reduce the questline requirements and change Tamsin's battlecry to: For the rest of the game, first time you take damage on your turn damages your opponent instead
Battleground Battlemaster was 100% nerfed because of Paladin, I argue that Warlock had nothing to do with it...
Best card for the best class ever
While yeah I agree that Blightborn Tamsin (And almost all the "Rest of the game" effects) are terrible design.. I was watching Rarran play tons of Demon Seed games yesterday and 90% of the games were won before the questline reward was even played
They should just ban it, most other card games have perma banned cards that are problematic, why can't hearthstone do the same? Why do they need to nerf it to unusability, instead of just banning it? It saves the devs time.
Other card games are physical. You still have the pieces of cardboard even if the card is unplayable. In digital you could as well delete it from the game if it's useless.
Start playing obscure decks, like Mill Rogue. I'm sure Mark could give you a few decklists for it.
"MAYBE SHADOWSTEP"
yep this vid earned my like.
For the rest of the game your charge minions have +1 attack.
It's not the Quest that is the problem, it is their lack of balancing the game around WILD rather than STANDARD that is!
This was broken in standard as well. To a lesser degree, yes, but it was still one of the best decks in standard
Most of the cards that were nerfed from demon seed decks deserved the nerfs. Touch and rod saw play after the nerfs.
Why do we make a video on Demon Seed but not the four tier 1 Rogue decks?
Hey Zeddy, why everybody stopped talking about weakly quests?! We need to make it clear to blizzard that this minor change won’t slide in!!!Could you make another video about the quest problem?
Would love to see a Zeddy video where he talks about how Warlock always gets the most broken cards in the game.
Druid and rogue existe bro
It really is a good example of itself. Takes damage (nerfs) again and again, still f%(ing kills you.
Yes lets fix the demon seed so we can start crying about the next top deck.
What if you make tamsin 10 mana? Itll allow counterplay in most cases since they most likely won't be able to take the final damage without spending mana, and when they do its not so consistent allowing you to dirty rat etc.
Also 10 mana in wild is quite slow for a 7/7
It would be better if they made the Questline itself 10 Mana, and increse the requirment to 30 damage in each step just to be sure.
Zeddy dosen't stop with "seedlock is too strong" 😅
That quest can burn and be deleted from the game and I wouldn’t lose an ounce of sleep. Lol
Release Demon Seed got me to legend for the first time.
Precisely why it should be banned. Getting people who are nowhere near the skill level of legend, to legend with broken af cards is definitely going to kill the game.
Noob anime kid 😂
just make it that fatique does not count after the quest is fulfilled
that won't stop mass production
Just ban it. Problem solved
Nah man, just make it 13 13 13. The number is odd, so usually you will overcomplete it with like 5+5+2+2. Makes the quest actually difficult and slow
@@wschess and they'll print another card that'll break it again. It's one of the most unfun and terribly designed cards in the game and it just needs to be banned and never be made again
Nah miracle rogue with turn 1 gnoles and 3/3 weapons then turn 3-4 0 mana giants eats that deck.
@@matthewjecelin8358 if you can't complete the quest without dying, good luck having a 1 mana do nothing in your starting hand. I know, cards aren't designed for wild, but oh man breaking 13/13/13 that's actually 14/14/14 is hard. You need Renathal and Renathal questline warlock is just not that good
At this point numbers are not the problem, Tamsin needs a rework
Another solutiin. First tíme you will také damage during your turn, summon démon of 7/X with lifesteak instead, X is amount of damage
Imagine putting once per turn on tamsin
I feel like no one would complain if they gutted the card completely. Talking Warsong Commander levels of gutted. Its time.
It should also damage yourself as well as your opponent instead of ONLY your opponent
"Brand new video" he says while talking about the demon seed being broken for the 43rd time
It's a "Brann new video" because it gets triggered again.
At this point it's better to straight up ban/delete the card
Demon Seed was fine before miniset. Just nerf Dark Glare NOT to give free mana
What do you mean not give free Mana, to make it not work with Raise Dead? I think Darkgalire just needs a complete rework.
@@locogato3488 yes, full rework - no mana. Lets ay change DG to: Lifesteal. Whenever your hero takes dmg on your turn, deal 1 dmg to enemy hero.
I actually think it’s darkglare that is the problem but still demon seed is pretty rad
You got crystal core, much earlier you got rogue with a mini bot magnitezed at 20/20 windfury OTK wtf...
I'm not even sure that would be enough, but it might have been ok if ONLY your fatigue damage, damage the opponent instead
So... who wants to bet. how many more nerfs, it will take to fix demon seed? 15 , 18 , 21. I can keep going.
Zeddy, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love you, but questlock is fine. Wild should not get bans or nerfs. Let it naturally evolve over time.
Omg the card is normal it's just doing fine, I feel like the only time you guys consider a card OK when it's below avg stat,...
I dont think any "for the rest of the game" should exist in hearthstone
Honestly it should read deal 20 dmg to yourself on all 3 phases.
I dont know, why they didn't make it so you just simply can't take self damage on your turn and thats it. No damage reflection - no disbalance
Or maybe make it so self damage heal you instead, if questline reward will be too weak.
Deck now is weak as hell and there’s no point in playing it. Now you have no win condition, dealt 30 damage to face for no reason.
There is no fixing the self damage archetype.
@@kennethxu1789 What about Darkglaire and all these 0 Mana Giants?
@@locogato3488 you don’t need the quest then. You could instead play kobold librarian, mass production, etc. on turn one.
@@kennethxu1789 Exactly. My point is that the deck would still work even if they nerfed the Questline to unplayble.
@@locogato3488But the questline wouldn't.
Crystalizer is the problem here
Just a genuinely badly designed card. It's extremely uninteractive while also being extremely consistent. The fact that your hero doesn't take damage once you complete the quest really goes against warlock's flavor as a class.
I'd argue it should be set to 10/15/20 damage for the reward and/or set the cost of Tamsin to 10. This is a card that would be much better as a joking meme card that isn't playable. One that's difficult to pull off, but because it's so difficult, you can afford for the card itself to provide a fairly uninteractive reward. Like Moarg Cultist or Mecha'Thun or Desert Obelisk.
demon seed one of if not the best card design ever sadly always broken so ppl hate on it (I like it tbh but I know it's way 2 much meta)
It’s just such a bad design. I remember only a handful of content creators and players were saying it would be broken and most others writing them off saying it would be very mid to trash…..lmao 😂
The only other questline that makes me want to uninstall is defend the dwarven district. But it’s still second compared to this degenerate card…..
theyre fine gutting other decks but not this just GUT IT
Reworking it doesn't make sense. It won't be the same card you liked to play. So, then just ban it forever in Wild and that's it.
Just completely rework the card… I’d take anything that does not impact the opponent’s hero health.
God forbid Warlock mains have something good 🤣
Maby a good nerd is just change the card for exsemple: you can not take damege yourselfe from fatiche or card in your turn
Magic players over here just adapting to metta or the card get's outright banned