We all have one of each inside our heads. Question is do they recognize each other or not? Are they friends or not? This piece really resonated with me and where I am at present. I’m stuck right there in the middle of which hemisphere to follow, and really dig the philosophical and practical question in day to day life.
I have been loving your videos, it’s made Daoism incredibly accessible while not dumbing it down. I especially liked the end part about debating with ease, sadly a rare occurrence but those few people and times have always stuck with me. Thank you
He loved Huizi. How do you know that the fish are happy ? Because the fish are swimming together playfully, as we are in conversation and Because I’m so happy to be rambling at ease with my dear friend. What a beautiful video
Joyfully subbed. What a find! This is a fine supplement to Moeller's Taoism Explained (one of my favorite Taoist commentaries). I am ''rambling'' (you) along ''the way'' and your work is as much a delicacy as my frothy jade colored matcha tea!
Awesome presentation! I love that you added the original Chinese text along with the translated reading because that helps me a lot with my classical Chinese studies.
This is the third of your videos on Zhuangzi that I have watched/listened to, and all three have been brilliantly insightful, reminding me of how much I get out of Daoist philosophy. In both my book-reading and my personal correspondence, I seek out what offers me that "You" way of contending with ideas, and it is delightful! Thank you for creating these videos!
Absolutely incredible video. Has so much meaning to me and appreciate the value in it. I’ll tether this to my favorite late musician, Mac Miller, who had an album called swimming, and makes a lot of references to daoism philosophy. Thank you for your great work!
Can I just say, WOW I love love LOVE this video. I love Philosophy, such a shame that my college never offered it, otherwise I would instantly chosen it. But even still, I am eternally grateful for the philosophical explanations on your channel that satisfy my crave from time to time :) KEEP UP THE HARD WORK!!!
We will be using this as a jumping off point for a dog training discussion today at 10AM ET in the Tao of Dog Training on Clubhouse. Intuition vs Logic is an important idea in dog training. Thank you so much for the inspiration!
I was thinking of asking if Hans Georg Moeller was thinking of writing that “New Daoist Philosophy” magnum opus he was talking about at “Genuine Pretending”s preface. But seeing how well these videos are doing that job, this channel might just become his “New Daoist Philosophy” magnum opus. Loved the video like always❤️
Thanks for asking! The "New Daoist Philosophy" book hinted at in Genuine Pretending is: You and Your Profile: Identity after Authenticity (cup.columbia.edu/book/you-and-your-profile/9780231196017) --hmoeller
@@philosophyinmotion So the "New Daoist Philosophy" will be directly related to your recent discussions (on your other channel) on the role of social media and how it forces people to reinvent their sense of self? If so that will definitely be an interesting read.
I'd say neither happiness, nor suffering, are "the" universal experience. They are both mind states a human being can flow towards or away from based on their experience and reactions.
Aristotle's epistemological condition, that we start knowing wiles more or less clearly, and later divide them into parts. As a child learning to speak starts to form a notion of happiness as a generality of behaviour of the child and her pet. Suggests empathy is the starting point for emotional knowledge. Semantics. No phone battery left. Chso.
You don't need to become a fish to know what there is to know about fish; you don't kneed to become Flaubert to understand Madame Bovary; you don't need to become Shakespeare to understand Hamlet. It is enough for you to engage deeply and sympathetically with your object. Knowing a fish doesn't mean you need to have access to the fish as a subject of the unique experience of being a particular fish (how could that ever be without destroying both you and it as subjects?) , but to the medium through which it is meant to reveal itself to the world. Each and every creature lives by the grace of a medium through which it is also revealed to others. But this spiritual medium is not open to all unconditionally. Only love, which is another name for knowledge in its spiritual form, opens it. Huishi seems to have little love. He appears to be a complicated intellectual whose only skill is to chatter and contradict. Quite Like Thomas Nagel, who never spent even an hour observing real bats, he makes sweeping and very unrigorous statements about fish and men being dissimilar. Ultimately, such so-called "philosophers" simply don't know what knowing really means. They think that absolute likeness is a precondition for knowledge. Since that is apparently impossible, they jump to the conclusion that all knowledge must be subjective. They don't see that knowledge is given in a relationship and that it is the activity of uniting the like and the unlike. Zhuangzi feels joy in his heart, not as a fish or as that particular fish, but as that particular human being who, BECAUSE he was willing to attend to the beautiful sight of the fish dancing in the river, was privy to an apparently easeful and casual revelation of the underlying unity of nature as Logos in which fish and men rejoice for ever.
The Zen answer: "Zhuangzi states how happy the fish are" - then Huizi challenges him on how he could possibly know that the fish are happy seeing that he is not a fish"......... Zhuangzi Farts loudly ...... Huizi, upon hearing Zhuangzi's fart, experiences Satori on the "suchness" of all things and they both laugh. :)
It's called Chan not Zen. Japanese stealed it. Chan禅 is the combination of Daoism and Buddhism, if you don't understand Zhuangzi, you will never understand Chan禅. That's why the Japanese are just the culture theift.
perhaps, zhuang zi truly knows that the fish is happy, as is known that many enlightened human beings have this power. Hui Zi a great official of a state, prime minister is not so possessed of a power like that of Chuang Tzu. So Chuang Tzu simply asks 'you've never been me, you make the same assumption as I of the fish and you of me. Who are you to question how I know the fish is happy or not?' I think this is how Zhuang Zi sees it, although Hui Zi who would be more 'logical' would be in an intellectual argument, Zhuang Zi is not in an intellectual argument.
Thank you, nice video with a delightful rpg/pokemon sense of humor 👍 Like a westerner who can't vibrate their Rs would be understood when saying the word Seniorita, so are mistakes in semantics could point to the right unarticulated articulation. And it's better than wrongful articulation or lies. Having said that I think there's a miss in this video where Zhuangzi was pointing out his friend's hasty words of him not knowing how the fish felt. He should've maintained his initial reserve that was being a questioner. He should've said "I know that you're not a fish so how do you know the state of the fish still?" or my question remains, something like that. But since they were friends it seems that Zhuangzi was bullying him for his mistake on his own standard, maybe I myself favor being correct semantically, although I often use the wrong pointing to the right stuff for the sake of being easily understood or for the sake of keeping it casual (not innuendoes)
Chinese ancient and modern, do not dive in. We stay above surface, dive in is for the reader to do and comprehend, thats why they tell story or tell story as they have conversation with ohters. This is zhuangzi's way of showing he use logical fallacy of moving the goat post, by smartly question to answer a question, from fish happy or not to how do you know. which kick back the burden of proof to the other side. Because he knows, it is not possible to really find out how do any of man know a fish is happy or sad.
Do you have a "Zhuangzi" or "Huizi" in your life?
We all have one of each inside our heads. Question is do they recognize each other or not? Are they friends or not?
This piece really resonated with me and where I am at present. I’m stuck right there in the middle of which hemisphere to follow, and really dig the philosophical and practical question in day to day life.
Both. If Huizi can't square it up, then I let Zhuangzi take a shot.
All the people around me and occasionally myself are Huishi's.
I'm lucky to have several of them
I have been loving your videos, it’s made Daoism incredibly accessible while not dumbing it down.
I especially liked the end part about debating with ease, sadly a rare occurrence but those few people and times have always stuck with me. Thank you
He loved Huizi. How do you know that the fish are happy ? Because the fish are swimming together playfully, as we are in conversation and Because I’m so happy to be rambling at ease with my dear friend. What a beautiful video
Joyfully subbed. What a find! This is a fine supplement to Moeller's Taoism Explained (one of my favorite Taoist commentaries). I am ''rambling'' (you) along ''the way'' and your work is as much a delicacy as my frothy jade colored matcha tea!
Yes! We need more moments of "You" in our lives
The pokémon reference was freaking awesome, thank you for that!
Awesome presentation! I love that you added the original Chinese text along with the translated reading because that helps me a lot with my classical Chinese studies.
Been waiting for you to cover this one. Excellent work as always.
Thanks for the support!~ Glad you like it!
This is the third of your videos on Zhuangzi that I have watched/listened to, and all three have been brilliantly insightful, reminding me of how much I get out of Daoist philosophy. In both my book-reading and my personal correspondence, I seek out what offers me that "You" way of contending with ideas, and it is delightful! Thank you for creating these videos!
😳 I have no words for the brilliance of this video! Well, maybe I have one after all: Wow! ❤ Thanks a lot! 🙏🏻
Thanks for the kind word~
Absolutely incredible video. Has so much meaning to me and appreciate the value in it. I’ll tether this to my favorite late musician, Mac Miller, who had an album called swimming, and makes a lot of references to daoism philosophy. Thank you for your great work!
Thank you for sharing!
In the Chinese book ,the Aristotelian school is translated as the Xiaoyao school （逍遥学派）
Can I just say, WOW I love love LOVE this video. I love Philosophy, such a shame that my college never offered it, otherwise I would instantly chosen it. But even still, I am eternally grateful for the philosophical explanations on your channel that satisfy my crave from time to time :)
KEEP UP THE HARD WORK!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
We will be using this as a jumping off point for a dog training discussion today at 10AM ET in the Tao of Dog Training on Clubhouse. Intuition vs Logic is an important idea in dog training.
Thank you so much for the inspiration!
I was thinking of asking if Hans Georg Moeller was thinking of writing that “New Daoist Philosophy” magnum opus he was talking about at “Genuine Pretending”s preface. But seeing how well these videos are doing that job, this channel might just become his “New Daoist Philosophy” magnum opus. Loved the video like always❤️
Thanks for asking! The "New Daoist Philosophy" book hinted at in Genuine Pretending is: You and Your Profile: Identity after Authenticity (cup.columbia.edu/book/you-and-your-profile/9780231196017)
--hmoeller
@@philosophyinmotion So the "New Daoist Philosophy" will be directly related to your recent discussions (on your other channel) on the role of social media and how it forces people to reinvent their sense of self? If so that will definitely be an interesting read.
Not happiness, but suffering, is the universal experience. Ease is a category of opportunists.
I'd say neither happiness, nor suffering, are "the" universal experience. They are both mind states a human being can flow towards or away from based on their experience and reactions.
So profound...its beautiful thank you
Such a wonderfull explanation.
This story always reminded me of Wittgenstein and his critique of scepticism
it is a lesson in how we understand the abstract and arbitrary
Brilliant. Thank you.
keep them coming my friends
Aristotle's epistemological condition, that we start knowing wiles more or less clearly, and later divide them into parts. As a child learning to speak starts to form a notion of happiness as a generality of behaviour of the child and her pet. Suggests empathy is the starting point for emotional knowledge. Semantics. No phone battery left. Chso.
Is this the origin of Carefree Wandering chanel's name?
You don't need to become a fish to know what there is to know about fish; you don't kneed to become Flaubert to understand Madame Bovary; you don't need to become Shakespeare to understand Hamlet. It is enough for you to engage deeply and sympathetically with your object. Knowing a fish doesn't mean you need to have access to the fish as a subject of the unique experience of being a particular fish (how could that ever be without destroying both you and it as subjects?) , but to the medium through which it is meant to reveal itself to the world. Each and every creature lives by the grace of a medium through which it is also revealed to others. But this spiritual medium is not open to all unconditionally. Only love, which is another name for knowledge in its spiritual form, opens it. Huishi seems to have little love. He appears to be a complicated intellectual whose only skill is to chatter and contradict. Quite Like Thomas Nagel, who never spent even an hour observing real bats, he makes sweeping and very unrigorous statements about fish and men being dissimilar. Ultimately, such so-called "philosophers" simply don't know what knowing really means. They think that absolute likeness is a precondition for knowledge. Since that is apparently impossible, they jump to the conclusion that all knowledge must be subjective. They don't see that knowledge is given in a relationship and that it is the activity of uniting the like and the unlike. Zhuangzi feels joy in his heart, not as a fish or as that particular fish, but as that particular human being who, BECAUSE he was willing to attend to the beautiful sight of the fish dancing in the river, was privy to an apparently easeful and casual revelation of the underlying unity of nature as Logos in which fish and men rejoice for ever.
好棒的影片！甚至還有正體中文的字幕！
Loved the video, thank you for sharing!
The Zen answer: "Zhuangzi states how happy the fish are" - then Huizi challenges him on how he could possibly know that the fish are happy seeing that he is not a fish"......... Zhuangzi Farts loudly ...... Huizi, upon hearing Zhuangzi's fart, experiences Satori on the "suchness" of all things and they both laugh. :)
lol.
i really dont get zen but can recognise it instantly haha
It's called Chan not Zen. Japanese stealed it. Chan禅 is the combination of Daoism and Buddhism, if you don't understand Zhuangzi, you will never understand Chan禅. That's why the Japanese are just the culture theift.
one must imagine sisyfish happy
That's just absurd.
@@MrKyltpzyxm true, seems fishy
THIS IS THE FUNNIEST THING EVER
nice explaination
What a delightful story.
perhaps, zhuang zi truly knows that the fish is happy, as is known that many enlightened human beings have this power. Hui Zi a great official of a state, prime minister is not so possessed of a power like that of Chuang Tzu. So Chuang Tzu simply asks 'you've never been me, you make the same assumption as I of the fish and you of me. Who are you to question how I know the fish is happy or not?' I think this is how Zhuang Zi sees it, although Hui Zi who would be more 'logical' would be in an intellectual argument, Zhuang Zi is not in an intellectual argument.
Thank you, nice video with a delightful rpg/pokemon sense of humor 👍
Like a westerner who can't vibrate their Rs would be understood when saying the word Seniorita, so are mistakes in semantics could point to the right unarticulated articulation. And it's better than wrongful articulation or lies.
Having said that I think there's a miss in this video where Zhuangzi was pointing out his friend's hasty words of him not knowing how the fish felt. He should've maintained his initial reserve that was being a questioner. He should've said "I know that you're not a fish so how do you know the state of the fish still?" or my question remains, something like that.
But since they were friends it seems that Zhuangzi was bullying him for his mistake on his own standard, maybe
I myself favor being correct semantically, although I often use the wrong pointing to the right stuff for the sake of being easily understood or for the sake of keeping it casual (not innuendoes)
Anyone else meow back at the cat out of habit? Just me?
haha
"The happiness of philosophers"...?
"Look how happy the fish are" said the man who was not happy at all.
🙏
Chinese ancient and modern, do not dive in. We stay above surface, dive in is for the reader to do and comprehend, thats why they tell story or tell story as they have conversation with ohters. This is zhuangzi's way of showing he use logical fallacy of moving the goat post, by smartly question to answer a question, from fish happy or not to how do you know. which kick back the burden of proof to the other side. Because he knows, it is not possible to really find out how do any of man know a fish is happy or sad.
thousands years ago