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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
- (Note: As of filming, Orion may be revamping their Dobsonian telescope line and some of these may not be available. Stay tuned for more details.)
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In middle europe, orion was an unknown brand in the 90s. This Vixen telescope was like a dream and you were hardly able to afford one (at least as a schoolboy). Never had a chance because after 2000 Skywatcher became a name. In the beginning they were like cheap copies but when they got better they became one of the big players. Nice to see an review of a telescope that was so important in my childhood.
Your story is similar to mine. I have been waiting to do this review for over 10 years.
@@edting I had no idea. Since you‘ve reviewed so many rare telescopes I thought it wouldn’t be special for you in any way.
It would have also been interesting to see how it performs photographically. But I honestly had no idea about the focuser.
Today I‘d rather get an Skywatcher quattro 200p to be honest.
Great review Ed, many thanks. All the best for 2022. Clear skies!
Thanks for another epic video Ed!
I wish everyone a very Happy New Year for the year of 2022.
Really helpful Ed. You captured a lot of really great insights.
Ed, that location is Beautiful! What a wonderful place to view from. I could see spending the evening just enjoying the scenery waiting for it to get dark.
I got one of if not the last of the hardin star hoc 8-4 OTAs direct from hardin shortly before they closed their consumer telescope operations. This was when hardin was the main source of GSO scopes. It was heavier than the vixen, but only $300 new. I had read on cloudy nights that the GSO 8" f4 mirrors were almost as good as the vixens. (This was in late 2004)
In the case of mine, I rarely could get a decent planetary view with the vintage 4.8 smoothside nagler I had bought on astromart, shortly before televue had their clearance on the last of the type 1 7s and 4.8s. Someone i knew got a 4.8, and the transmission and contrast was definitely better on the newer version.
But my sample was just a light bucket. It was fine with the 7mm nagler, 8.8mm UWA and 16mm type 2, as well as with a barlowed 13.8swa. Without the barlow the older SWA was unacceptable at f4, which is why i started hunting for affordable used nagler and uwa eyepieces early on in my career (it was my 3rd scope after an 80mm f11 nexstar refractor and orion SVP127 mak). I used it on SVP mount.
Now there is a chance my collimation wasn't perfect, since the primary did not have a center spot so I could not easily laser collimate the secondary. I had a friend help me with a cheshire, but I couldn't be sure it was spot on.
So all I would do from then on out was star collimate the primary, since the collimation knobs could be reached while looking through the eyepiece. In hindsight, i wished i would have just center marked the primary, as that is what the person I later sold it to did.
I didn't buy it to look at planets though, since the 5" mak and 80mm refractor did that very well.
I did enjoy the deep space views with it, and did a fair bit of manually guided film astrophotography with it, albeit without a coma corrector for a long time.
I would be with a small group at dark sites, with usually an 18" obsession or 28" homebuilt as the big boy, and I could remember being glued to the reticle eyepiece for 5 minutes at a time hearing the oohs and ahhs from the big scopes and asking "can you stay on that for 3 more minutes, I want to see".
I usually got decent results though, even though I was over the max for the mount (I did upgrade the tripod to a 2" leg cg5 tripod, which could go both lower and higher than the 1.75" SVP/sirius tripod). It needed 3 11lbs weights IIRC, it was the 80mm f11 on the orion guide rings/dovetail package, that manually bolted onto the 1/4-20 holes on the orion tube rings, that I sized to fit the slightly smaller tube with some neoprene stripping. Pretty low class compared to the later losmandy and adm rings/rails I would use later on.
When I later got a paracorr, the image improved greatly, both visually and photograhically. By then I was using an asgt, an old celestron/sbig 255 ccd as a guider and a nikon d50. I started using it less and less when i got an 80ed, and a 10" dob, and eventually sold it with the paracorr, and got the visual version of the paracorr which was better with the 31 nagler I aquired (the original would vignette).
I do think it was the right type of scope for me and my budget at the time, but if I could go back, i would have still bought the 2004 costco special 80gtl, but instead of the SVP127, with plans to buy an 8" newtonian later to jump into imaging, i would have gotten the 10" dob first, and then later gotten an imaging rig based on maybe a 6" newtonian or 80ed.
But I actually have no regrets, since I am usually technically above the curve, and I liked playing the video game of manually guiding, and would have decent enough results to scan and post online. I started the yahoo group, low budget astrophotography, but after a couple of years, someone else took it over as I had priced myself out of the category after starting work at opt in 2006, and also hence had less free time on my hands.
On a night of good seeing, I got my 10" dob to 500x with 2.5mm tmb planetary eyepiece on m15 and that was pretty amazing.
Here in so cal, being close to the beach, that is not unheard of, we sometimes get spectacular seeing, to make up for all the light pollution. But also within 2 hr drive to some epic dark sites.
Happy New Year Ed. Another scope that is on my "Eventually Purchase" list.
Thank you Mr. Ting!
Happy new year, all! Clear skies!
Fortunately here in Japan, they're very much available :) I love my R200SS for DSO imaging (with the Vixen Coma Corrector PH, which is much newer and better than the standard CC, and even that standard CC is up to version 3 now! - but yeah, much more expensive). But YES. The focuser.... That said, you can easily take DSO images with a DSLR with that standard focuser and no extension tube (I do) with the right (and widely available, at least here in Japan) adapter.
Thanks for the update from Japan!
Europe is a similar story. In the UK it retails for £1249 or about 1700 US, including our VAT, but it’s widely available and sometimes there are secondhand units popping up.
Is it possible to install your own focuser? Im completely new to all of this so forgive my ignorance. I have learned a tremendous amount from both you and Ed. I cant wait to be able to get my hands on some equipment and start my journey.
If you're new at this, don't worry about the focuser. There's a lot to learn and digest before you get there.
@@davestephens9463 You can add a new focuser. I put a GSO Crawford type on my Vixen R130. Much more solid than the plastic rack and pinion one that came with it.
I was lucky enough to have purchased one from The Star Guy when they were open distributing in the US. I bought the R200SS also with all the field flatteners and focal reducers. I also bought the two-speed focus knob to go with it. Love it
Brian and Mike gave good spiffs to dealers back in those days. I think Brian went on to skywatcher but I don't remember exactly. Mike had left earlier on to first manage the Costa Mesa scope city before opening OC telescope.
It was a good day if you sold a vixen scope, eyepieces or binoculars, knowing Mike or Brian would have an envelope of cash for you next time they came in.
Both Mike, and Even Scott Roberts of meade and now explore scientific, got their starts at the same place I worked, but before my time of course. When I started Scott and Mike were both at meade, and came in often.
It is a small group, who all got to know each other since we hosted an expo that might as well have been the west coast mini neaf.
Happy new year buddy!
Been eyeing Vixen for a while for their 115 s Apo ... The price .. a bit high for just a doublet .. could have won me over for the inexpensive reducer. Got scared away by adaptor parafinelia :) it seems the Japanese love to make unorthodox adapters that drive you in an expensive and largely unavailable ecosystem.
Would have loved to see some astrophotography work through this scope but nice review! Thank you!
I own a Vixen R130Sf reflector it's the best reflector I have ever owned. The mount is also the best user friendly mount as well.
Technically that is the same optics as the older nexstar 130s, and the later awb130 and skywatcher 130s, but with better quality control, according to the USA vixen reps. The synta 130f5 is a decent set of optics.
But the Japanese made vixens are in another category
Another good overview Ed, I also don't think I've seen these down here in Australia.
Thank you, Ed.
Another great video from Ed. Currently reading his book “Astrophotography: A Practical Guide”. An excellent book with clear explanations just like his videos. Highly recommended.
Just finished it, I agree 100%
Yes, collimation is absolutely critical at f/4 and there is absolutely no room for error. The diffraction limited zone for even a perfect mirror is a little more than 1mm in diameter at f/4 - which is really astounding. I have a 10" f/4.5 custom Newtonian with Royce optics and I made sure the mirror cells could survive an earthquake (or a car ride) without bothering the alignment. I have found that with a Paracorr I can get a nice star field right out to the edge of a 60 deg FOV eyepiece. And you need the best eyepieces because man, will marginal eyepieces get owned by an f/4 scope! I find that Orthoscopics and Meade HD60s (which are very similar in performance in all scopes) work best for me. If you want a portable 8" or 10" Newtonian on an equatorial mount, you are pretty much stuck with f/4 or f/4.5, but it can work.
Hi I had a 6"f4 & a 8"f4 maybe about 1998 where i took it to darker area for the dso. Those were sky mentor brand name.
Very good astro-photos!
Oooo another Ed Ting vid!
Hi ed, just discovered your channel when I was doing research on buying my first telescope, and i've loved every video i've watched so far!
Anyway, as I said I'm looking to buy my first telescope, and the ones you seem to like for beginners are the Orion Starblast or an 8'' dobsonian. However my price range falls right in between these, I'd love to get something bigger that the Starblast, but the 8'' is out of my budget range. So far i've found two telescopes in my area that fit in my price range, the skywatcher heritage 150p (Which you have a review on) and the Bresser Messier 6'' 150/750, I couldnt find any good reviews on the bresser messier, but it seemed to have a metal focuser (which you seemed to think is a very important factor) and since its a solid tube, I thought it might be less flimsy than the skywatcher. So basically which one would you say is a better bet?
Sorry for the long question, you just seemed like the right kind of guy to ask this from.
Thanks!
Those 6" f/5 (150/750) optical tube assemblies are OK but have never been known to have great optics. I have the US-branded Orion version. You didn't mention the mount. It is so important. If the mount is adequate, these scopes should be OK. I'd still get a Dob if you can but that's your call.
Another very informative telescope video! Thanks! But I was very surprised to see your dark sky observation site to be next to a roadway. Won't passing headlights ruin your night vision???
I have two Vixen scopes, and one is R200SS - good scope.
Would be interesting for a review of the Orion CC6 and CC8 in the future.
I'd like that too. Have to get my hands on them!
What kind of mount do you recommend for a GSKYER 70mm?
Thanks
Brent
hello, I noticed the tube rings are quite close together, whats your thorght on maiking them as wide as the dovetail bar will allow? love your videos and the knollage you share.
Thank you very much.
Yes, I noticed that too. The black plate is mine, I may have spaced it that way because of the way the holes are drilled in it.
Ed have you ever used SV503 102ED telescope ????????? Need your review..
Ed,if you don’t mind,can you review the Apertura AD8 Dobsonian.I’ve changed my mind on the Nexstar Evo 6,I don’t want it anymore.
Hi Ed, great review. What are your thoughts on the Vixen VC200L? I'm tempted to buy one for imaging smaller DSOs like galaxies and planetary nebulae etc. I already have an FSQ-85EDX for wide-field imaging and I think the VC200L would complement it well. Thanks.
I did a review on Scopereviews back in 2003. Look it up on the Master List. I'd give a link here, but YT seems to frown on them.
@@edting Great, thanks. I'll take a look.
OFF TOPIC: @Ed Ting, could you go into how to pick out a decent mount that won't break you and you won't break it. I have been using an old Meade ATX telescope, nice optics, but that mount is hellish to use and doesn't seem to like my PC. It's old so buying batteries all the time gets old. I bought a second hand reflector but dealing with weight and counter weight issues is another pain in itself. I like the rellector's optics, but if I put in a heavy wide field eyepiece, it is re-balance time. God forbid I put a Nikon on it. ¶ The replacement for these two scopes are either a refractor, Schmidt Cassegrain or a Maksutov Cassegrain where the eye piece is on the back end. That solves a lot. Mount is a big issue and some discussion would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
The new R200SS uses a Coma Corrector PH perhaps better than the older coma correctors.
I wonder if you could 3d print that DSLR adapter, it doesn't look too complicated... but you would need the exact dimensions of it.
More in the realm of CNC, you want to mill something like that out of aluminum, not 3d printed plastic.
Try precise parts, or just order from Japan, or a European dealer that sells vixen
So is the advantage of this over the 8" f/3.9 Orion Astrograph ?
Thank you for another great post! Ed, what is your take on the difference in object quality between a 10" and 12" Dobsonian? I have an old 10" Orion Dob but considering going larger. My son and daughter and now my three grandsons have seen parts of the cosmos through the old 10" Dob. I appreciate your perspective on the quality of Chinese primary mirrors. Cheers.
It's not the optics you need to be concerned about. In a solid tubed Dob, the weight of the OTA causes the azimuth motion becomes too stiff (if using conventional teflon pads) or too loose (if they use the ball bearing system). This will cause you more concern than the optical quality. If at all possible, try one out before buying to make sure this does not drive you nuts.
Look for a used meade 12" light bridge if you can't afford to go premium. Avoid solid tube dobs in general, but perhaps a discovery split tube is an option, but those are at the lower end of the premium range.
There are or were, also orion xx truss dobs, another good option
I'd love to own one of these. I love vixen stuff,. There's a local women selling one near me, but unfortunately she listed it and a sphinx mount for 7500$...
$7500! That's optimistic. I'm working on a review of the Sphinx by the way.
The main issue is that there is no US distributor right now. Supposedly Explore Scientific is that distributor, but that hasn’t happened yet. I own the last R200SS sold by the previous distributor.
Ed, great scope. But what do you think of the Apertura 8” f/4 OTA at $629 USD? I’d mount it in a SkyWatcher HEQ 5 Pro Mount. Thank you.
I have a review of the Orion variant on Scopereviews. These Chinese clones are getting very good. The focuser is actually better than the Vixen's. I am also playing with an Orion 10" f/4 right now.
@edting you say chinese scopes a lot, which is technically true, at least according to one population, even if the United Nations don't agree:).
But aren't these versions made by GSO in Taiwan ROC, rather than synta in PROC?
With mirrorless cameras becoming more common (even mainstream) focusing might not be such a problem with that scope.
Yes, I agree. I expect to have one shortly!
i came across a vixen gr200ss, wonder what kind of variation is the gr vs r
Something in the back of my memory seems to think that they were the same but with green paint jobs. If the scope you came across is green, then that might be it.
I worked at OPT from 2006-2011, and we weren't that far from starguy, and Mike used to be the manager of OPT before my time. Brian and Mike came in often, and gave us tons of info on vixen scopes. So what is in the back of my memory has at least a 50% chance of being accurate and not just coming out of the ass of just any rando who may have read something on a forum on the internet:)
Any opinion on the quality of the Vixen R130Sf 130mm f/5 Newtonian Reflector Telescope? I am wondering if the added expense is due to its optics?
I did a review on Scopereviews in 2014. Check it out.
The r130sf is actually made in china by synta. QC of vixen may be a bit better, but unless you compare it to a lemon example of another branded one, Orion, Celestron, skywatcher etc, the view would be about the same.
Synta 130f5 reflectors are generally very good, the vixen just costs a bit more
@@k.h.1587 I was thinking about the same or at least wondering that. Ed seems to like the optics so I wonder if there might be some difference. I looked at other 5in F5 newts and noticed that the price might not be that different after all. I wonder if Ed got a lemon when he got his Orion Starblast 6 inch.
The horse has probably bolted on this one but...I've got one which I'm very happy with. I like the images it gives me but, i think it's probably around 15 years old judging by the labels on the box. As I say, I'm happy with the images, the mirror looks fine and the coatings look good. But at this age would a new one be significantly better, or might mine be just as good still?
I wonder how old the reviewed sample was and how the mirrors seemed?
I wouldn't worry about it. The one I had was 20 years old and I didn't notice anything.
@@edting Thank you - that'll do for me!
Hey Ed you might want to go through your affiliate links make sure they're all still valid. The first two for the xt6 and xt8 are not available.
Yeah, thanks. Those links seem to go in and out. Everything is sold out these days!
This man is very distinguished, and suave, he should be selling bottles of 3k Scotch !
Wonderful, thank you!
It's really true, that there are 2 types of Newtonians you can find. One with great optics and mediocre focuser. Another is with a good focuser, but mediocre optics.
Take your pick. LOL!
Those who eventually buy it, they will end up "modding" it anyway. Whether it'll be an aperture ring on the main objective or a new focuser or both and also a different coma corrector. Eventually the accessories will cost more than the OTA itself.
I’m in the market for something like this because my dob will almost see over my back yard trees but not quite. It would be for planetary and deep sky viewing, not photography. You said they mount is almost out of your comfort range. What would be in your comfort range? Other than this one, what kind of 8 inch optical tube with a great focuser would you recommend? I have to buy online without the ability to see it first so I’d like to stay away from Chinese made stuff and any other stuff that would be risky. Thank you Ed!!!
I wouldn't do it just to gain height. This scope only gains you about 12" of height which won't make any difference, and you are going to pay dearly for the privilege, especially if you don't want something made in China. A G11 mount alone will cost you close to $4000. A high quality Japanese, American, or German optical tube could easily run you at least that much.
Thank you for the advise Ed!!!
Hello, I have question about GSO 200/800. I can buy it for about 280€. But is from 2004. It is big mirror quality difference between old GSO from 2004 and new?
As long as there is no obvious physical damage, it's usually safe to buy old scopes.
@@edting Thanks for response. I love your channel.
How long do telescope coatings last? is there chance that modern mirrors have better shape? or coat?
The coma corrector you are showing is a cheap version - current one is over US$600.
The one they sell in Japan is PH Corrector. I think you can reach out to Cuiv the lazy geek.
Thanks, I didn't know that.
Hello Ed.. I believe I have this adapter for connecting a dslr .. as I was writing this, I went and dug through my box of useless astro stuff and I have it in my hand..it's exactly 60mm male threads with t-2 male threads..it would be an honor if I can send it to you at no cost.. I can email you pictures..
Hey that would be great! After I play with it I can send it back to you. You can send info to eting at aol dot com.
The DSLR adapter could probably be 3d printed
so sad the starblast was taken of the marked
yeah !! another incredibly expensive telescope review !! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
With Explore Scientific now picking up the North American distributorship for Vixen, perhaps we will see more of the brand’s presence here. But they are a tough sell as there is so much more competition now than 20 years ago, and Vixen has never garnered the prestige of other Japanese brands. For any astrophotography the focuser is critical. Vixen never seems to make up its corporate mind if they want to be entry-level and affordable, or prestige and premium. They try to be both and miss both marks. As you say, good products but always with annoying deficiencies.
Thanks for the update!