@STATION26ADDISON I traded my 15 RGS two years ago for a19 Indian CL. No issues with it. No issues with the RGS. Both great bikes. Just needed a different vibe.
New Harleys are not worth the money. Harley Davidson did it to themselves. My 2014 Road King suits me just fine. Don’t need more HP either. How much faster do I want to go on a tourer
That doesn’t mean they are not worth the money. Having a 2014 that still rocks is great for customers. Means they last! I agree with not needing more HP. I have a 24 road glide and thing is a rocket.
This I wanted to buy a 2024 Road Glide. Just the base model. It me dealership told $30,000. I said does this include shipping and other fees? They said that was MSRP. I said alright and walked out. Another Harley dealership told my the MSRP was $30,000. When I said that’s funny because on another website the dealer had it listed for $26,000, MSRP. They started back tracking. I said thanks but no thanks. I don’t like to deal with dishonest people.
Grey with chrome trim is 25999 plus destination charges and dealer fees. With my taxes that's 30 easy. If you want black on black or any other color with black trim you will be close to 28000 before any other fees and taxes. I'm sure they will be willing to take fees off as soon as the 25s show up. They will be desperate to get rid of the 24s.
I bought my bike in 2016 for 7800 it had 5k miles on it. I’ll stay away from dealers and their over priced crap. When the engine goes I’ll just rebuild it. I’ve never been into these new bikes with all the technology on them anyways.
@@Allium_369Back in the day I payed about 13k in 97 for an 883 hugger. Put another 4k into it. I haven’t ridden it in over 12 years. It’s now in my shed camouflaged in dust. 😂 Seriously though. 9k will get you a badass used Harley these days.
I no longer care about what happens to Harley. The accountants and executive posers have just about destroyed it and very few folks can actually afford their product.
In the last three years 5 dealers have closed in my area. When you hire a woke ceo and board this is what happens - not just DEI, but pushing fake climate change caused them to get rid of the real sportster and add three bikes absolutely no one wants - Nightster, sportster s and live wire. Wokeness always costs revenue and jobs.
Exactly, looking forward to purchasing another EVO powered Harley. Not that I can’t afford a new Harley, I just refuse to pay for all the electronics that I don’t want.
Actually they do, they list revenue which is based on sales to dealers, they disclose shipments which is to dealerships and retail sales which are to the public by dealers. Each are provided separately.
There are two Harley dealerships in my city. It's a cold climate so riding is mostly done for the year. The one dealership is sitting on a mountain of unsold new bikes. It's a huge showroom, the bikes couldn't be packed any tighter and there is no room for next years bikes. I don't have any insider information but one glance at the showroom leads me to conclude that they are in trouble. I assume that the motorcycle industry works like the car industry in that those unsold bikes show up on the HD financial statements as sold. They have been sold by HD to the dealer. The dealer finances those unsold machines with a floor plan until they are sold to a customer. My guess is that the 2025 HD sales numbers will fall off a cliff if what I see at my local dealer is common throughout the dealer network.
I'm here in Michigan and a lot of these dealers they're freaking floors are full...... I have two of them that keep calling me every other month to come down and check out their bikes..... they're reaching they've got no one to sell bikes to...... and I have a couple buddies that work for dealerships here in Michigan they actually left and went back to family businesses and because they couldn't sell shit and provide for their family
I just don’t like the direction that the touring bikes have gone , and if I were looking for another bike it would be a older model thanks for the information Mike
My local dealer was one of the small Mom and Pop stores that helped save Harley-Davidson back in the 1980's, and HD shut them down about 15 years ago after a nearby "Disneyland" dealer opened. I haven't bought a new Harley since.
The real threat to the industry is the shrinking number of riders. That is caused by the increased number of accidents and fatalities. That is caused by the increased number of distracted drivers (Texting while driving) That is caused by lack of traffic laws and enforcement of existing laws. That is caused by lack of focus and priority by police and local governments . The industry does not focus enough energy $$$$ to stiffen the penalties for distracted drivers. The single greatest thing Harley could do to grow sales long term is to increase both national lobbying efforts and incentivize local dealerships and rider groups to improve and enforce traffic laws and the local levels. If this root cause is not addressed the market will continue to shrink and negatively affect the entire market.
I believe your information is presented in a lucid, logical, well researched and understandable way. You obviously have a thorough understanding of the subject. Thank you
Appreciate that, I have been listening to the investor calls for over four years now and making videos on them so hopefully I’m getting a little better at presenting the information each time.
As long as that CEO and board members are in control, I will never buy new anything from a dealership, especially after mine got bought out and moved out, thank God the head mechanic from there opened up a shop right down the road from me, at least we have an Indian dealer in town
Even if the economy was great right now. Who in the right mind would want to buy a motorcycle for 30 grand when you can only ride the damn thing in spring and summer.
Where you live and how motived you are to ride year round has a lot to do with it. I'm in Florida so it doesn't take much, when I lived in Texas it was pretty easy, when I lived in Pennsylvania it took some motivation. I rode year round in PA, more than most anyway, you need the right gear and heated electrics. The motived part is putting all the crap on that keeps you warm on and going out to ride, the inclination to just walk out and pour yourself into the cage can be strong.
Here is the dirty little secret that people haven't figured out yet. Harley wants their prices high enough so people have to finance the bikes, they make money off the sale then more money of the finance interest. HDFS was the only division that was in the black last quarter. Think about it.
I live in SoCal, and I can tell you this: the politicians in charge here, always, and I mean always make the wrong decision. Thank God the people of California rolled back the legalization of shoplifting. GavGav was all against that. So stupid. And, he might be the president in 2028…😳
Prices are too damn high… I sold my 2020 street glide 2 years ago and been wanting to get into a road glide but cannot fathom the price even for the used market…
Excellent point on market share as Harley literally dominates! Sales numbers are not only down for Harley Davidson , They are down for the entire Motorcycle industry ! It’s not price rather it’s getting the young people to get interested in buying a motorcycle and for that the entire industry needs to utilize influencers, sponsorships, and good old-fashioned advertising ! In this area Harley Davidson , who has the most powerful brand name of them all needs to flex their muscles and get with a campaign ASAP. That will only start after the CEO is terminated or resigns. The company needs new leadership desperately.
High interest means paying more dollars to past debt with less dollars for future innovation. Many startups and small businesses have closed doors especially if carrying high debt with high interest rate.
All I need to know about the current state of Harley-Davidson motor company is to walk in a dealership, look around and it is obvious they are in trouble. Your lying eyes may lie to you, but your brain will tell you the truth if given a chance.
HD pulled the franchise from the dealership because they wanted it sold to a corporation and they forced another one near me to sell to a corporation and this garbage is going to continue till the CEO and the Board of directors is fire and these corporations don’t care if they damage your bike and neither does HD corporate .
I live in Tulsa Oklahoma and there are two dealerships in town. They are both still packed with bikes! One of them had to remove the parts counter to make room for bikes and also push them over into the clothing area. There are deals to be made right now! It's really hard not to try a 24 SG right now! If i didn't love my FXLRS so much, i would. Point is, they are drastically overstocked.
Went to my local dealer to look into a stage 2 on my 2023 RGS. When I saw the price I was hesitant, before I left, they offered me an almost $600 “winter special” discount 😎
I bought the last bike Taboo sold. Just think what I thought when I was out of town and transferred the money to pay for the bike and the next day I see on Facebook they were closed, and I could not get there for 10 days! I spoke with the GM and he assured me that the bike was safe and would be ready when I could get in there. The company kept the service team and GM on until the service work was finished, and all bikes was picked up. It sucks as I have purchased bikes from them for at least the last 15 years and now have to build new relationships with another dealer.
It’s hard to really know how Harley will do. They hurt themselves with wokeness. But, Slow Joe and his merry band of idiots have destroyed the middle class in the last 4 years. And the middle class buys the most Harley’s. They gotta fire the CEO and anyone associated with him.
Good report Mike. I hate to see dealerships closing because that reflects the status of the industry as a whole and the Harley-Davidson climate. The numbers will change with the economy improving and the cost-of-living stabilization hopefully fueled by the election results - time will tell. Glad you are enjoying your new ride. Stay safe and hope to see you on the roads. 🤜🏼
H-D will never sell as many bikes as in the 2000s. It's becoming a boutique manufacturer as they target more affluent consumers. I've been riding street bikes since 1981 but i can no longer afford most all new H-Ds. I'll let the RUBs buy them and turn them into affordable used bikes. But honestly, I'll probably only ever ride an EVO.
Several motorcycle shops closed this year here or amalgamated. We have now two big dealers and maybe 2 small shops BMW are now run out of the car dealers the only ones doing well is Enfield who just expanded. As an owner of a 2017 Iron 883 I can confirm they have lost their way and the bikes are way too expensive for normal people.
Im out on harley till management is changed. So far have put over 1k on my pursuit in less than a month and very happy. Stays like this and i might not be back.
Maybe you are not telling the whole story? (Bloomberg) -- Harley-Davidson Inc.’s motorcycle shipments fell in the latest quarter on lower demand for its high-margin bikes, prompting a downward revision in its full-year forecast. The company on Thursday trimmed its 2024 outlook, projecting motorcycle revenue down 14% to 16% and operating profit margins between 7.5% and 8.5%. It had previously forecast a 5% to 9% decline in motorcycle revenue and a margin of 10.6% to 11.6% for the full year. The company said in July that it planed to cut dealer inventory by about 30% in the second half of the year after facing allegations from a group of US dealerships that they were hurting dealer profits by shipping too many bikes during a slow period.
Harley records the sale when it is shipped to the dealer . Not when it is actually sold. Check the dealers non current inventory. Harley is in real trouble because they have gone to the car dealer mentality. Get rid of the family run dealership and bring in car dealers to push the finance office ripoff. That is why Harley financial is up. Sell peace of mind not the motorcycle.
Those numbers don’t sound very good. I will say it again. There needs to be a change in the CEO & the BOD. The future is not in the Shorted Out Wire With Trump winning, maybe he can get control of the out of control EPA and we can get a version of the Sportster back in the 10K range for new HD riders.
Interest rates, cost of living prices are out of control are the problem buying a motorcycle. By the way the EVO engine didn’t meet European emissions either so that is worldwide problem for Harley Davidson, it’s just not the EPA.
Covid was a huge paradigm shift. The government loves at least 2% inflation to pay its creditors with cheaper inflated dollars. Consumers would benefit from a little deflation which would make dollars more valuable and prices would fall. Inflation hurts everyone especially middle class and poor as little or no assets to keep them above inflation. The last 5 years has created a huge sudden acceleration of the income gap.
When I buy a new HD(last was a '23 FXLRS), I also buy 10% of the purchase price in common stock of HD...just a silly thing I do. I think HD has the capacity to make way too many motorcycles for the market they have. It isn't the good 'ole days for the OEM when every machine was desperately wanted with a buyer ready to pay over MSRP. HD is grinding out far more machines than the market wants. Harleys hold their value? Nope. Not anymore. To many of the damned things. Sorry HD, make better and more desirable machines or die. One cannot live on TShirts alone.
There's been a number of Harley Davidson dealers closing by me. Not one dealer announced a sale. Not one! Their inventory was absorbed by the mega dealers that took over. Most of the closed stores only posted their situation a day or so prior to the actual shutdown. They don't care about their customers, so I in turn don't care about them. Or Harley Davidson in particular. If that's how Harley Davidson is going to operate, I'll let my motorcycle license expire. I got my license thru work, because I needed it at the time. I don't now. My position has changed, and the bikes are gone. Say goodbye Harley Davidson. You did this to yourself.
You need to take that large cruiser share in context with the number of units delivered, meaning being up percentage wise in a market that shows a downward trend just means their competitors fared worse. Harley shipped 22k less units in Q3 this year as compared to last year and sales were down 5k world wide with half of that loss in the US. Now inventory decreased 8k units between Q2 and Q3 which probably meant a lot of 2023 stock was finally sold at discount. Livewire's impact on the bottom line is meaningless, its an investment in the future.
Market share is based on retail sales as I understand it, units shipped is not retail sales. Market share does indicate how they faired vs the competition and that was my point sales are down but market share isn’t so HD is fairing better than the competition.
I just turned 60 and I ride a Suzuki m109r and refuse to spend more than $15k for a motorcycle. I see no attractive Harley Davidson below the Cruiser/Touring models and their pricing is $20-40k for such bikes is crazy. The latest and greatest is not very affordable anymore if I can buy dependable in great shape elsewhere..
Excellent Vid Mike! When people hear the word "INFLATION" it means the amount of money supply in the US Economy, simple way to remember it is the amount of funny money that is printed and flooded into circulation. These numbers on HD Earnings report don't reflect person "INFLATION." You can see declining sales and this report can be a simple YOY growth calculator. The true measure of the market all comes down to us, our INFLATION. Gas used to be $1.45 a gallon, and the media says our costs has risen 8-9%, if this were true my gas should only be $1.58, not $3.45 which is a rise of 245%. With interest rates having come down a 0.25% that may spark someone to purchase a bike, but after the election rates may come down 1% which will heat up the economy. Our personal inflation needs to drop, food, gas, utilities and everything else to boot. Sorry for the rant Mike, thank you for this channel.
stop lying to people dude!!! Just checked their website and they have 2024 Street Glides for $24,999 that are PRE-OWNED!!!! 😂 Not brand new at all!! Thats a pre-owned price lmao it even says that price was taken down from $28,199!!!
Did you call them? If you are seriously looking why don’t you call them? If you knew anything about HD you would know that Some prices they can’t advertise.
Congrats on the new ride. I'm in Lakeview, Arkansas so Renegade is my " local" dealer also. Why didn't Taboo HD just downsize? Could have "right sized" to a similar size like Gold Rush HD in Elko Nevada, great dealership by the way. It is just a small metal building but services a very large area. Not like the super huge overhead palatal palace/ cookie cutter design dealerships that corporate HD envisions. HD market share is and has been stable for years, they are not going out of business any time soon. Fluctuations are due to the economy and less riders overall and covid also made a mess for a few years. Once HD realizes a change of leadership / vision is needed it would help also. My questions for the future of HD are more along the lines of: 1) What are they spending the R & D budget on? The next large cc displacement motor generation, will it finally be fully liquid cooled? 2) Thailand imports of the smaller cc bikes. Will they split the company off into small liquid cooled, rev max motors imports and keep large cc air cooled stateside? Make Thai bikes "a division of" like live wire? 3) Dealerships. They seem to be going the route of cookie cutter design/ zero personality/ ginormous palaces. I prefer just the opposite. I like when they reflect the region they service/ local flair and heritage for lack of a better explanation. 4) Hourly shop rates. $185 an hour. Holy heck, a new rider will get sticker shock.
my inside source, harley is worried about new riders they buy a bike and sell within 3 years and never buy another. I will never buy a newer harley, I hate the GPS, abs, computer screen etc. The engines get bigger but go less miles per tank. I will stick with my older ones. I can repair them myself. even picked up a used sportster to add to my other bikes, it is a 1200 and fun to ride with the bigger tank
Mike, this was some good information as always. I cannot see why anyone would think you are full of it. You put out information that no one else seem too and it's honest! I hate to see any dealership close down, over just plain bad management and corporate greed. I don't see why they can't figure out, that the guy in charge, must Hate America and wants Harley to fail. Paying someone 29 million per year when sale are down makes no sense. I think You I could run the company for a couple million a pieces. Don't see how we could do any worst and Harley in already saving money. Just saying. Put an American in charge of Harley. I still say that Harley Does Not Have More Than $8000.00 in producing these touring models and that includes the hourly salaries and benefits!!! So go back to 2014 prices and sell more units. After Trump gets everything back on track, selling these bikes for $24,000.00 - 25,000.00 Out The Door should move lots of units. But Harley also has to a stop the price gouging at the dealerships too. Maybe Harley could reward the dealership with bonuses with X amount of sales.
Just picked up a new to me, 2-owner 25k mile ‘97 FLHT. Gonna just do a light update on it and I’m gonna ride the heck out of this bike. She’s goin to Sturgis in ‘24. It’ll be the first time I don’t take a late model and I’m lookin forward to it. I’m trying to get away from all the losses I’ve been taking by gettin new bike every 3yrs.
You have some great stickers behind you. I bought my bike from Fredrick Maryland from a dealership that soon closed afterwords maybe that’s why they gave me such a good deal. But I believe HD is knocking out the owner operator in favor of corporate ownership that’s just my $.02
NFN, I was showing my GOV class the electoral map of California and there were lots of light shades of red and blue. Some places in Cali would make rural Missouri look downright urban!
Harley has done permanent damage to their brand. This is not the Harley of just 5 years ago. I think this version of HD will either get acquired by a larger company or will go bankrupt.
HD ....Just lost a $290 million Law suite in NY I believe There was a flaw In the trike line .... .they knew it but didn't say anything or do anything.... 2 people crashed cause of it and got paid $290 mill..
Whats worse in the case of the side car motor cycle that crashed is that it wasn't the first time!! The same problem happened on the same bike causing a crash. No one was killed the first time it happened. The dealership made the repairs and said the bike was "fixed"! The same problem happened again with one of the brakes suddenly locking up causing another crash. This time the guys girl friend riding in the side car was killed!! So ya, Harley desereves to be sued! 😞
I've been riding motorcycles for 40 years Harley-Davidson is trying to sell you less of a motorcycle for more money yes they have more power and they handle pretty decent now but the rest of the bike is garbage
I think all of the dealers should close. Why do we need this middle man at this point. I was on Harley's site a while ago. Curious about what i could get selling my bike. Not 30 seconds later i got a call from my local dealer pressuring me to come in for an appointment. I called back and let him know i changed my mind on selling my bike. Continued to push for an appraisal so i just cut them off at that point. These mofos seriously left about 30 messages on my phone over the next few weeks. Changing numbers, sales reps etc. unreal. They can all go away as far as im concerned.
High interest means paying more dollars to past debt with less dollars for future innovation. Many startups and small businesses have closed doors especially if carrying high debt with high interest rate. Low interest rates, low inflation, and growing economy lead everyone to more expensive trucks, SUV’s, and motorcycles. All that has changed the last five years.
If they offered a lightweight bagger with the 121 and very little tech, bare bones, they would kill it. I think I just described the low rider st though lol
@@marvelharris9540 my wife tours on a sport glide with a Stock 107, she kept up with my 103 stage 1 no problem but I get wanting the latest engine as well.
Averages are tricky and potentially very misleading measures. For example, an average of 45 (of whatever) could represent a bunching of whatever is being measured at both ends of the unit range with nothing in the middle (i.e. a bunch towards the low end, and another bunch towards the high end, and nothing in the middle). So an average age of 45 years could reflect a bunch of teens and early 20 somethings, and another bunch of 60 and 70 somethings, and no one in their thirties or forties or fifties. There is an assumption of a normal distribution but it is only an assumption and in reality can be and often is an entirely different distribution - one that is not at all reflected in the "average" figure given as representative of the distribution in question.
Car dealers purchased many Harley dealerships and under Harley’s orders made them into Boutiques. When one pays 40 + bucks for a t-shirt ,what do you think Service is going to cost? We quit after a Cage blindsided us (again) with no insurance after 50 years on bikes. Florida seems like 1 dead biker a week in Snowbird season.
In my country, about 90% of all new car sales are electric vehicles this year, but even here they struggle to sell electric motorcycles. And we have the infrastructure, charging points all over the place. I drive an electric car, and absolutely love it, but my bike is an ICE like almost all the other bikes on the roads here. HD sales keep going down year after year though, their market share is under 2% now. My local dealer shut down years ago, well they didn't shut down, they just stopped selling HD, they are doing quite well selling other brands. It's a shame.
second comment, a huge chunk of the lost sales are from the Sportster category, even the Pan America sales have plummeted. As for electric motorcycles, Energica filed for liquidation in October and they probably had the best electric motorcycles available. However their failure is from the parent company running out of money where the motorcycle group had more orders than they could fill.
Mike, when a dealer suddenly closes, it’s usually a bank foreclosure. It’s not a H-D H.O decision. A business owner usually tries to keep what’s coming up quiet in hopes he will make it through the storm and the last person you want them to hear of it is H-D corp so you can still get your orders in. The planned H-D closure are the ones who announce a closure date as their agreement with corp will not be renewed on a fixed date.
I figured as much but don’t want to guess at things too much. But as I understand it HD gets some sales business data from the dealers so they can see dealers that aren’t doing well to some level? My assumption is they know some dealers aren’t healthy and would like to trim them before it gets to this point.
I'm 59 years old, been riding for 18+ years and finally purchased my first Harley Davidson Motorcycle. 2024 Street Glide, WOW ! What a time to get into Harley Davidson!!! 😃😃😃 Amazing Machines! The 117 Motor is incredible! 😎
Harley must keep up with the market , boomers that have kept Harley going for years are getting old and not buying bikes like they use to, the younger guys prefer other style of bike’s and of course the economy and doesn’t help either .
Got to say HD is starting to make me question their dedication to customers. I have a friend who bought a 2023 Tri glide with less than 3000 miles. Dealer said the owner said it was too big for him. Anyway in less than a few thousand miles his clutch went out. HD would not cover it saying it was a wear item. $800 later he made a couple of long trips and again the clutch is out. Again HD Said it would not cover it. Dealer said they needed to pull the motor to correct the problem but HD will not cover it. This guy has owned more than 20 Harleys and is a very experience rider. No way is it operator error. I can’t believe HD won’t cover a problem that is obviously an internal problem. So much for Harley Davidson!
Go woke go broke. Cant afford a new Harley anyway, I own 2, second hand bought privately. My 2003 Sportster is very reliable, I service myself never involve HD.
I walked past a Harley shop in Victoria, Texas and saw a basic motorcycle priced at $10,500. I kept walking. They have to be kidding. An engine, frame, two wheels, two tires, two instruments, one handle bar, one seat, one gas tank. = $10,500? Never.
The first Trump 4 years he put tariffs on products that directly impacted HD, John Deere. DJT made a big issue on HD so the EU responded to the tariffs he imposed by putting a31% tariff on HD bikes, HDs 2nd biggest markets. Hit Harley really hard - cost up+ tariffs on EU sales. Sales plummeted
Harley has no one to blame for the public losing interest in motorcycles. Harley eliminated its future customers when they got president Ronald Reagan to put a tariff on imported motorcycles back in 1984. I really couldn’t keep up with the technology coming out of Japan on motorcycles, the twins, V fours, flat, fours, six cylinders, fuel injection, even turbo chargers we’re becoming the norm on Japanese motorcycle so the public wasn’t buying Harleys. To put that into context, would you buy a black-and-white television today when you can buy a flatscreen high definition television? It was the same thing in 1984 in the motorcycle world. so Harley got the CEO to approach Ronald Reagan on a patriotic level. President Ronald Reagan put a 45% tariff on all imported motorcycles. there is not a writer I ever met that started out, riding a brand new Harley Davidson as their very first motorcycle ever. People start out on an inexpensive used Japanese motorcycle as their first motorcycle usually. Then as they learn to ride, they eventually move up to larger motorcycles, even Harleys… well, what happened was, a lot of people could not afford the price of a motorcycle going up 45%. Eight $2999 750 from any of the big four, which was the starting price, I know, because I was selling motorcycles part time at that time. I sold motorcycles at several Japanese motorcycle shops for 17 years part time. so I $2999 motorcycle overnight at the whim of the president went to $4750. In today’s money, that would be like a Honda civic that list for $29,999, jumping to $47,500 because the president says so. That’s what happened to motorcycles prices. Show rooms were deserted, in the first two years 1100 Japanese motorcycle dealers went out of business, there were 22 Japanese motorcycle dealerships within an hour of my home before the tariff, I worked in five of them, as either a mechanic, or a salesman over the years. I knew the mechanics, I knew the owners. The average number of employees at those 1100 bankrupt motorcycle dealers that went under, was seven employees. What about those more than 7000 American jobs that were lost? Young guys weren’t buying motorcycles for the first time and getting motorcycling in their blood, and that’s what happens, you get hooked. Call me when you spend money on accessories and more motorcycles. I myself am on my 111th motorcycle now. I have buddies that have had more than I have had… so what happened was, hundreds of thousands of new blood never got into motorcycling because of the price due to the Harley tariff. They weren’t buying bigger bikes over the years, when they got married, they weren’t introducing their children to riding mini bikes and small dirt, bikes, and those kids would have graduated up, 2 Small St., bikes, and then bigger street bikes, and then those kids kids would have moved up incise and displacement… my kids all started riding dirt bikes at age 4, six, and seven. Now, they are starting my grand children out on small motorcycles. Because they already had it in their blood from me, I brought home motorcycles for them to ride, now, they are bringing home motorcycles for their children to ride. but I got started in motorcycling back before the tariff. So I was hopelessly hooked. today, hundreds of thousands of people never got interested in motorcycling because of the Harley tariff prices. Prices went up, and even after the tariffs expired after four years, the prices never came back down, and the damage was already done, thousands of dealers were out of business. I mentioned that there were 22 dealerships within an hour of my home before the tariff, today, there are only two survivors still in business within an hour of my home. There were three up until last year, a Yamaha Suzuki shop about 20 minutes from my home, the original owner. The father of the current owners was a personal friend of actor, Steve McQueen. They rode Husqvarna’s together… I just learned this week, the third week here in November 2024, that unfortunately that dealership has been closed forever.. so that leaves two dealerships in my area, still in business that sell Japanese motorcycles. There are used to be three BMW dealers within an hour of my home, they are gone there used to be three moto guzzi dealers within 90 minutes of my home, gone. The Harley tariff started these dominoes falling, and apparently they are still falling, because the public lost interest in motorcycling. I’m sure people noticed that Harley riders are generally older, in their 50s and 60s is the bulk of their fan base age. That’s because they got hooked before The tariff and switched to Harleys.. Now I realize that not everyone of those people that never Became an enthusiast in motorcycling because of the tariff, I realize not all of them would have eventually ended up buying a Harley, probably only a few hundred thousand of them would have switched to Harleys by now. Harley brought this on themselves.. it’s ironic that the president that used the words, the scariest words I ever heard were, hello, I’m from the government and I’m here to help” that is actually laughable, because Ronald Reagan did exactly what he said, are the scariest words he ever heard, government, stepping in to change/help business instead of letting the open market do its job. And Ronald Reagan actually crushed the motorcycle industry in this country 40 years ago, with that tariff, and it has never , And I don’t think it ever will recover. here is a small example There was a single year before the tariff that Yamaha sold 120,000 of its Yamaha XS 650 twin motorcycles in the United States they sold 120,000 of that bike in the US in one single year After the tariff, Yamaha to this day has not sold 120,000 of every size motorcycle they make combined in a single year in the United States. .
I'm a simple guy and have a question. What difference does market share make when you're talking about financials? If you're losing money, you're losing money regardless of whether you have 10, or 90% of the market share. At least that's the way I see it. Please, someone educate me.
Ok my take on it, first they aren’t losing money but sales are down. Sales are down are the headlines but they are leaving out that sales are down for the industry and HD is doing better than the competition based on market share gain. These headlines affect market analyst ratings for stock which can affect stock price. I try to present the good and bad. Does that explain the why I think it’s important?
That CEO is like putting Richard Simmons in charge of a bakery
Harley is too expensive for the average blue collar guy who is also trying to raise a family.
Amen brother.
Buy used
Hi
It is expensive but it is a lot of bike too. I have a 24 road glide and love it.
@ the RG and SG are freakin sweet!! I’m just salty for us RK lovers. 🤘😎
Im over with the whole HD thing!
You could go buy an Indian but they're almost just expensive and I think they have more problems than Harley
@STATION26ADDISON I traded my 15 RGS two years ago for a19 Indian CL. No issues with it. No issues with the RGS. Both great bikes. Just needed a different vibe.
they need to get rid of their union members.
New Harleys are not worth the money. Harley Davidson did it to themselves. My 2014 Road King suits me just fine. Don’t need more HP either. How much faster do I want to go on a tourer
I have a 2014 road king also. Love the bike! Will not be trading anytime soon. Probably will get too old to ride before I trade.
That doesn’t mean they are not worth the money. Having a 2014 that still rocks is great for customers. Means they last! I agree with not needing more HP. I have a 24 road glide and thing is a rocket.
@@jimmyccee1083 look into a torque cam
I liked the older dealerships that did not look like a resort selling merchandise.
This I wanted to buy a 2024 Road Glide. Just the base model. It me dealership told $30,000. I said does this include shipping and other fees? They said that was MSRP. I said alright and walked out. Another Harley dealership told my the MSRP was $30,000. When I said that’s funny because on another website the dealer had it listed for $26,000, MSRP. They started back tracking. I said thanks but no thanks. I don’t like to deal with dishonest people.
All dealers try to get more money for their bikes, unfortunately that's the way it is. But if they really want a sale, they will come down in price
I agree that they need to money. Just tell me the truth on the MSRP
24,999 at Southaven Mississippi
Ask for Erik
Grey with chrome trim is 25999 plus destination charges and dealer fees. With my taxes that's 30 easy. If you want black on black or any other color with black trim you will be close to 28000 before any other fees and taxes. I'm sure they will be willing to take fees off as soon as the 25s show up. They will be desperate to get rid of the 24s.
Ask for Eric
2 months ago I purchased a Street Glide Special from a private seller. I don’t deal with the dealerships anymore unless I have to.
I bought my bike in 2016 for 7800 it had 5k miles on it. I’ll stay away from dealers and their over priced crap. When the engine goes I’ll just rebuild it.
I’ve never been into these new bikes with all the technology on them anyways.
@@Allium_369Back in the day I payed about 13k in 97 for an 883 hugger. Put another 4k into it. I haven’t ridden it in over 12 years. It’s now in my shed camouflaged in dust. 😂 Seriously though. 9k will get you a badass used Harley these days.
I no longer care about what happens to Harley. The accountants and executive posers have just about destroyed it and very few folks can actually afford their product.
In the last three years 5 dealers have closed in my area. When you hire a woke ceo and board this is what happens - not just DEI, but pushing fake climate change caused them to get rid of the real sportster and add three bikes absolutely no one wants - Nightster, sportster s and live wire. Wokeness always costs revenue and jobs.
Exactly, looking forward to purchasing another EVO powered Harley. Not that I can’t afford a new Harley, I just refuse to pay for all the electronics that I don’t want.
Woke is broke.
What harley davidson doesn't tell us in those financial reports, is that most of those sales are to the dealerships, not to the customers.
Actually they do, they list revenue which is based on sales to dealers, they disclose shipments which is to dealerships and retail sales which are to the public by dealers. Each are provided separately.
There are two Harley dealerships in my city. It's a cold climate so riding is mostly done for the year. The one dealership is sitting on a mountain of unsold new bikes. It's a huge showroom, the bikes couldn't be packed any tighter and there is no room for next years bikes. I don't have any insider information but one glance at the showroom leads me to conclude that they are in trouble. I assume that the motorcycle industry works like the car industry in that those unsold bikes show up on the HD financial statements as sold. They have been sold by HD to the dealer. The dealer finances those unsold machines with a floor plan until they are sold to a customer. My guess is that the 2025 HD sales numbers will fall off a cliff if what I see at my local dealer is common throughout the dealer network.
@@jimbroen my local dealers have new 2023’s, 2024’s and now 2025’s. And you can buy a new 2025 for less than 2023(some models)
I'm here in Michigan and a lot of these dealers they're freaking floors are full...... I have two of them that keep calling me every other month to come down and check out their bikes..... they're reaching they've got no one to sell bikes to...... and I have a couple buddies that work for dealerships here in Michigan they actually left and went back to family businesses and because they couldn't sell shit and provide for their family
An increasing share of a decreasing market is not a winning formula. Smaller less expensive bikes are what are selling.
I just don’t like the direction that the touring bikes have gone , and if I were looking for another bike it would be a older model thanks for the information Mike
I agree
HD failed to diversify during the boom years. They have nothing but tee-shirts to prop up the brand. 😢
My local dealer was one of the small Mom and Pop stores that helped save Harley-Davidson back in the 1980's, and HD shut them down about 15 years ago after a nearby "Disneyland" dealer opened. I haven't bought a new Harley since.
The real threat to the industry is the shrinking number of riders. That is caused by the increased number of accidents and fatalities. That is caused by the increased number of distracted drivers (Texting while driving) That is caused by lack of traffic laws and enforcement of existing laws. That is caused by lack of focus and priority by police and local governments . The industry does not focus enough energy $$$$ to stiffen the penalties for distracted drivers. The single greatest thing Harley could do to grow sales long term is to increase both national lobbying efforts and incentivize local dealerships and rider groups to improve and enforce traffic laws and the local levels. If this root cause is not addressed the market will continue to shrink and negatively affect the entire market.
I believe your information is presented in a lucid, logical, well researched and understandable way. You obviously have a thorough understanding of the subject. Thank you
Appreciate that, I have been listening to the investor calls for over four years now and making videos on them so hopefully I’m getting a little better at presenting the information each time.
And you don't have a fucking clue.
As long as that CEO and board members are in control, I will never buy new anything from a dealership, especially after mine got bought out and moved out, thank God the head mechanic from there opened up a shop right down the road from me, at least we have an Indian dealer in town
Even if the economy was great right now. Who in the right mind would want to buy a motorcycle for 30 grand when you can only ride the damn thing in spring and summer.
Spring and summer? Maybe the fair weather rider. I’m still riding in November.
I ride year round and people are picking up new models for 25k out the door in some markets
Where you live and how motived you are to ride year round has a lot to do with it. I'm in Florida so it doesn't take much, when I lived in Texas it was pretty easy, when I lived in Pennsylvania it took some motivation. I rode year round in PA, more than most anyway, you need the right gear and heated electrics. The motived part is putting all the crap on that keeps you warm on and going out to ride, the inclination to just walk out and pour yourself into the cage can be strong.
@@BrianTimm-v1y me! Lol
I rode my new bike home with snow on the ground. 😂
Here is the dirty little secret that people haven't figured out yet. Harley wants their prices high enough so people have to finance the bikes, they make money off the sale then more money of the finance interest. HDFS was the only division that was in the black last quarter. Think about it.
No different than auto manufacturers that offer 'inhouse' financing.
@@gregshade5302 If they offer you gap insurance, buy it!
I don't/won't make purchases where buying gap insurance is a good idea.
And don't forget about the money HDFS makes on dealership floorplans.
I live in SoCal, and I can tell you this: the politicians in charge here, always, and I mean always make the wrong decision. Thank God the people of California rolled back the legalization of shoplifting. GavGav was all against that. So stupid. And, he might be the president in 2028…😳
Prices are too damn high… I sold my 2020 street glide 2 years ago and been wanting to get into a road glide but cannot fathom the price even for the used market…
Excellent point on market share as Harley literally dominates! Sales numbers are not only down for Harley Davidson , They are down for the entire Motorcycle industry ! It’s not price rather it’s getting the young people to get interested in buying a motorcycle and for that the entire industry needs to utilize influencers, sponsorships, and good old-fashioned advertising ! In this area Harley Davidson , who has the most powerful brand name of them all needs to flex their muscles and get with a campaign ASAP. That will only start after the CEO is terminated or resigns. The company needs new leadership desperately.
For me is price. Absolutely.
High interest means paying more dollars to past debt with less dollars for future innovation. Many startups and small businesses have closed doors especially if carrying high debt with high interest rate.
The death of the dyna was the death of Harley in my book
My dealership closed a few years ago, it’s now a DMV😂😂
Maybe they can sell their Bikes in Brazil and Thailand where they now manufacture Harleys.......
All I need to know about the current state of Harley-Davidson motor company is to walk in a dealership, look around and it is obvious they are in trouble.
Your lying eyes may lie to you, but your brain will tell you the truth if given a chance.
It would be interesting to know how much the gains of HDFS are the result of dealership floorplans.
The dealerships are franchises. Their selling practices, pricing, attitudes have to be looked at differently than the Motor Company.
HD pulled the franchise from the dealership because they wanted it sold to a corporation and they forced another one near me to sell to a corporation and this garbage is going to continue till the CEO and the Board of directors is fire and these corporations don’t care if they damage your bike and neither does HD corporate .
I live in Tulsa Oklahoma and there are two dealerships in town. They are both still packed with bikes! One of them had to remove the parts counter to make room for bikes and also push them over into the clothing area. There are deals to be made right now! It's really hard not to try a 24 SG right now! If i didn't love my FXLRS so much, i would. Point is, they are drastically overstocked.
Maybe there, not at my dealership. Dealers here had great sales numbers during the rallies here in September
My local family HD dealership just sold out. They had 2 dealerships. As of Nov 1st they are gone. Now under a group that had 5 dealerships, now 7.
Went to my local dealer to look into a stage 2 on my 2023 RGS. When I saw the price I was hesitant, before I left, they offered me an almost $600 “winter special” discount 😎
Did you pull the trigger?
Too expensive. Most people can’t afford one and the dentist already all have a HD
WHY DON'T THEY MAKE THE BIKES CHEAPER? THAT WAY EVERYONE'S A WINNER !!!!
Harley has lost the plot. The look to a past that’s gone, and a future that’s not gonna happen. Bikes too expensive, and electric bikes.
It's like the motorcycle industry is a pizza and harley gets 6 pieces out of 8. But when you measure the hole pizza it's no bigger than a Frisbee.
I bought the last bike Taboo sold. Just think what I thought when I was out of town and transferred the money to pay for the bike and the next day I see on Facebook they were closed, and I could not get there for 10 days! I spoke with the GM and he assured me that the bike was safe and would be ready when I could get in there. The company kept the service team and GM on until the service work was finished, and all bikes was picked up. It sucks as I have purchased bikes from them for at least the last 15 years and now have to build new relationships with another dealer.
Thanks for the insight, glad everyone got there ride back! Congrats on the bike.
It’s hard to really know how Harley will do. They hurt themselves with wokeness. But, Slow Joe and his merry band of idiots have destroyed the middle class in the last 4 years. And the middle class buys the most Harley’s. They gotta fire the CEO and anyone associated with him.
Good report Mike. I hate to see dealerships closing because that reflects the status of the industry as a whole and the Harley-Davidson climate. The numbers will change with the economy improving and the cost-of-living stabilization hopefully fueled by the election results - time will tell. Glad you are enjoying your new ride. Stay safe and hope to see you on the roads. 🤜🏼
I still like Crue’s Livewire better than Harley’s. Just sayin😑
The closures are REAL ! The HD Dealer in Duluth, MN just closed. That leaves our area with just a Honda / Yamaha dealer.
H-D will never sell as many bikes as in the 2000s. It's becoming a boutique manufacturer as they target more affluent consumers. I've been riding street bikes since 1981 but i can no longer afford most all new H-Ds. I'll let the RUBs buy them and turn them into affordable used bikes. But honestly, I'll probably only ever ride an EVO.
I purchased a HD because of the large dealer network as I had considered travel and the need for breakdown service. That is now slipping away.
Several motorcycle shops closed this year here or amalgamated. We have now two big dealers and maybe 2 small shops BMW are now run out of the car dealers the only ones doing well is Enfield who just expanded. As an owner of a 2017 Iron 883 I can confirm they have lost their way and the bikes are way too expensive for normal people.
Good video. Good analysis. Well done.
Im out on harley till management is changed. So far have put over 1k on my pursuit in less than a month and very happy. Stays like this and i might not be back.
Thanks Mike, really good info. I do enjoy your explanation of the quarterly numbers. Keep it up.
89 million to Livewire from the Inflation Reduction Act certainly is a huge help
It's called Bidenomics. 90% of HD buyers finance. I'm a re estate appraiser and these rates eliminated refi biz.
This situation started well before 2021. Bidenomics only compounded it.
Maybe you are not telling the whole story? (Bloomberg) -- Harley-Davidson Inc.’s motorcycle shipments fell in the latest quarter on lower demand for its high-margin bikes, prompting a downward revision in its full-year forecast.
The company on Thursday trimmed its 2024 outlook, projecting motorcycle revenue down 14% to 16% and operating profit margins between 7.5% and 8.5%. It had previously forecast a 5% to 9% decline in motorcycle revenue and a margin of 10.6% to 11.6% for the full year. The company said in July that it planed to cut dealer inventory by about 30% in the second half of the year after facing allegations from a group of US dealerships that they were hurting dealer profits by shipping too many bikes during a slow period.
Harley records the sale when it is shipped to the dealer . Not when it is actually sold. Check the dealers non current inventory. Harley is in real trouble because they have gone to the car dealer mentality. Get rid of the family run dealership and bring in car dealers to push the finance office ripoff. That is why Harley financial is up. Sell peace of mind not the motorcycle.
They record revenue based on sale to the dealership and retail sales to customers, I report on both when I do these videos.
My next bike will definitely be used. 1/2 the price and I don't have to deal with a Harley dealership or HDFS financing.
Those numbers don’t sound very good. I will say it again. There needs to be a change in the CEO & the BOD. The future is not in the Shorted Out Wire
With Trump winning, maybe he can get control of the out of control EPA and we can get a version of the Sportster back in the 10K range for new HD riders.
Interest rates, cost of living prices are out of control are the problem buying a motorcycle. By the way the EVO engine didn’t meet European emissions either so that is worldwide problem for Harley Davidson, it’s just not the EPA.
Covid was a huge paradigm shift. The government loves at least 2% inflation to pay its creditors with cheaper inflated dollars. Consumers would benefit from a little deflation which would make dollars more valuable and prices would fall. Inflation hurts everyone especially middle class and poor as little or no assets to keep them above inflation. The last 5 years has created a huge sudden acceleration of the income gap.
When I buy a new HD(last was a '23 FXLRS), I also buy 10% of the purchase price in common stock of HD...just a silly thing I do. I think HD has the capacity to make way too many motorcycles for the market they have. It isn't the good 'ole days for the OEM when every machine was desperately wanted with a buyer ready to pay over MSRP. HD is grinding out far more machines than the market wants. Harleys hold their value? Nope. Not anymore. To many of the damned things. Sorry HD, make better and more desirable machines or die. One cannot live on TShirts alone.
There's been a number of Harley Davidson dealers closing by me. Not one dealer announced a sale. Not one! Their inventory was absorbed by the mega dealers that took over.
Most of the closed stores only posted their situation a day or so prior to the actual shutdown. They don't care about their customers, so I in turn don't care about them. Or Harley Davidson in particular.
If that's how Harley Davidson is going to operate, I'll let my motorcycle license expire. I got my license thru work, because I needed it at the time. I don't now. My position has changed, and the bikes are gone. Say goodbye Harley Davidson. You did this to yourself.
You need to take that large cruiser share in context with the number of units delivered, meaning being up percentage wise in a market that shows a downward trend just means their competitors fared worse. Harley shipped 22k less units in Q3 this year as compared to last year and sales were down 5k world wide with half of that loss in the US. Now inventory decreased 8k units between Q2 and Q3 which probably meant a lot of 2023 stock was finally sold at discount. Livewire's impact on the bottom line is meaningless, its an investment in the future.
There is no future for live wire. No one wants an electric motorcycle and it’s impossible to make them economically viable.
Market share is based on retail sales as I understand it, units shipped is not retail sales. Market share does indicate how they faired vs the competition and that was my point sales are down but market share isn’t so HD is fairing better than the competition.
I just turned 60 and I ride a Suzuki m109r and refuse to spend more than $15k for a motorcycle. I see no attractive Harley Davidson below the Cruiser/Touring models and their pricing is $20-40k for such bikes is crazy. The latest and greatest is not very affordable anymore if I can buy dependable in great shape elsewhere..
@@louieavi ride what makes you happy, I am happy on my 2024 Street Glide. Nothing is cheap anymore..,
Excellent Vid Mike! When people hear the word "INFLATION" it means the amount of money supply in the US Economy, simple way to remember it is the amount of funny money that is printed and flooded into circulation. These numbers on HD Earnings report don't reflect person "INFLATION." You can see declining sales and this report can be a simple YOY growth calculator. The true measure of the market all comes down to us, our INFLATION. Gas used to be $1.45 a gallon, and the media says our costs has risen 8-9%, if this were true my gas should only be $1.58, not $3.45 which is a rise of 245%. With interest rates having come down a 0.25% that may spark someone to purchase a bike, but after the election rates may come down 1% which will heat up the economy. Our personal inflation needs to drop, food, gas, utilities and everything else to boot. Sorry for the rant Mike, thank you for this channel.
New 2024s are 24,999 at Southaven in Mississippi!
Only saw used 2024 at that price point.
Just left there. Give them a call.
either buy at that otd or walk
stop lying to people dude!!! Just checked their website and they have 2024 Street Glides for $24,999 that are PRE-OWNED!!!! 😂
Not brand new at all!! Thats a pre-owned price lmao it even says that price was taken down from $28,199!!!
Did you call them? If you are seriously looking why don’t you call them? If you knew anything about HD you would know that Some prices they can’t advertise.
Congrats on the new ride. I'm in Lakeview, Arkansas so Renegade is my " local" dealer also.
Why didn't Taboo HD just downsize? Could have "right sized" to a similar size like Gold Rush HD in Elko Nevada, great dealership by the way. It is just a small metal building but services a very large area. Not like the super huge overhead palatal palace/ cookie cutter design dealerships that corporate HD envisions.
HD market share is and has been stable for years, they are not going out of business any time soon. Fluctuations are due to the economy and less riders overall and covid also made a mess for a few years.
Once HD realizes a change of leadership / vision is needed it would help also.
My questions for the future of HD are more along the lines of:
1) What are they spending the R & D budget on? The next large cc displacement motor generation, will it finally be fully liquid cooled?
2) Thailand imports of the smaller cc bikes. Will they split the company off into small liquid cooled, rev max motors imports and keep large cc air cooled stateside? Make Thai bikes "a division of" like live wire?
3) Dealerships. They seem to be going the route of cookie cutter design/ zero personality/ ginormous palaces. I prefer just the opposite. I like when they reflect the region they service/ local flair and heritage for lack of a better explanation.
4) Hourly shop rates. $185 an hour. Holy heck, a new rider will get sticker shock.
@@qthebikeahaulic thanks! Good question!
I have 3 HD's dealers in Dayton and Xenia. All 3 are w/i 12 miles. The only Bike dealers closing around here are Kawasaki and Hondas
Three HD dealers that close isn't sustainable. Hide and watch.
my inside source, harley is worried about new riders they buy a bike and sell within 3 years and never buy another. I will never buy a newer harley, I hate the GPS,
abs, computer screen etc. The engines get bigger but go less miles per tank. I will stick with my older ones. I can repair them myself. even picked up a used sportster to add to my other bikes, it is a 1200 and fun to ride with the bigger tank
I’m getting over 40 mph on my 2024…
@@RidingintheOzarks I get 50
Mike, this was some good information as always. I cannot see why anyone would think you are full of it. You put out information that no one else seem too and it's honest! I hate to see any dealership close down, over just plain bad management and corporate greed. I don't see why they can't figure out, that the guy in charge, must Hate America and wants Harley to fail. Paying someone 29 million per year when sale are down makes no sense. I think You I could run the company for a couple million a pieces. Don't see how we could do any worst and Harley in already saving money. Just saying.
Put an American in charge of Harley. I still say that Harley Does Not Have More Than $8000.00 in producing these touring models and that includes the hourly salaries and benefits!!! So go back to 2014 prices and sell more units. After Trump gets everything back on track, selling these bikes for $24,000.00 - 25,000.00 Out The Door should move lots of units. But Harley also has to a stop the price gouging at the dealerships too. Maybe Harley could reward the dealership with bonuses with X amount of sales.
Just picked up a new to me, 2-owner 25k mile ‘97 FLHT. Gonna just do a light update on it and I’m gonna ride the heck out of this bike. She’s goin to Sturgis in ‘24. It’ll be the first time I don’t take a late model and I’m lookin forward to it. I’m trying to get away from all the losses I’ve been taking by gettin new bike every 3yrs.
You have some great stickers behind you. I bought my bike from Fredrick Maryland from a dealership that soon closed afterwords maybe that’s why they gave me such a good deal. But I believe HD is knocking out the owner operator in favor of corporate ownership that’s just my $.02
NFN, I was showing my GOV class the electoral map of California and there were lots of light shades of red and blue. Some places in Cali would make rural Missouri look downright urban!
@@highwayman1218 LOL, I wasn't applauding it, just pointing it out. Red today is by no means red in 1988
Harley has done permanent damage to their brand. This is not the Harley of just 5 years ago. I think this version of HD will either get acquired by a larger company or will go bankrupt.
HD ....Just lost a $290 million
Law suite in NY I believe
There was a flaw In the trike line .... .they knew it but didn't say anything or do anything....
2 people crashed cause of it and got paid $290 mill..
@@03roadking it was a break issue on a trike and one person died. I wasn’t on the jury so I can’t judge.
Either way $290 mill..
Whats worse in the case of the side car motor cycle that crashed is that it wasn't the first time!! The same problem happened on the same bike causing a crash. No one was killed the first time it happened. The dealership made the repairs and said the bike was "fixed"! The same problem happened again with one of the brakes suddenly locking up causing another crash. This time the guys girl friend riding in the side car was killed!! So ya, Harley desereves to be sued! 😞
I've been riding motorcycles for 40 years Harley-Davidson is trying to sell you less of a motorcycle for more money yes they have more power and they handle pretty decent now but the rest of the bike is garbage
Nobody I know want electric bike or car it just doesn't make sense the market is going in the direction of smaller and more affordable bikes .
The younger generation is just not buying bikes anymore.
I think all of the dealers should close. Why do we need this middle man at this point. I was on Harley's site a while ago. Curious about what i could get selling my bike. Not 30 seconds later i got a call from my local dealer pressuring me to come in for an appointment. I called back and let him know i changed my mind on selling my bike. Continued to push for an appraisal so i just cut them off at that point. These mofos seriously left about 30 messages on my phone over the next few weeks. Changing numbers, sales reps etc. unreal. They can all go away as far as im concerned.
Was in Puerto Rico not long ago...2024 Street Glide $37,000.00
@@dmcharley64 wow !
High interest means paying more dollars to past debt with less dollars for future innovation. Many startups and small businesses have closed doors especially if carrying high debt with high interest rate. Low interest rates, low inflation, and growing economy lead everyone to more expensive trucks, SUV’s, and motorcycles. All that has changed the last five years.
Binghamton NY closed ... 30 plus years
I knew on was in NY
If they offered a lightweight bagger with the 121 and very little tech, bare bones, they would kill it. I think I just described the low rider st though lol
@@marvelharris9540 my wife tours on a sport glide with a Stock 107, she kept up with my 103 stage 1 no problem but I get wanting the latest engine as well.
Averages are tricky and potentially very misleading measures. For example, an average of 45 (of whatever) could represent a bunching of whatever is being measured at both ends of the unit range with nothing in the middle (i.e. a bunch towards the low end, and another bunch towards the high end, and nothing in the middle). So an average age of 45 years could reflect a bunch of teens and early 20 somethings, and another bunch of 60 and 70 somethings, and no one in their thirties or forties or fifties. There is an assumption of a normal distribution but it is only an assumption and in reality can be and often is an entirely different distribution - one that is not at all reflected in the "average" figure given as representative of the distribution in question.
I haven’t seen any close in western Pennsylvania/northern West Virginia
Car dealers purchased many Harley dealerships and under Harley’s orders made them into Boutiques. When one pays 40 + bucks for a t-shirt ,what do you think Service is going to cost? We quit after a Cage blindsided us (again) with no insurance after 50 years on bikes. Florida seems like 1 dead biker a week in Snowbird season.
In my country, about 90% of all new car sales are electric vehicles this year, but even here they struggle to sell electric motorcycles. And we have the infrastructure, charging points all over the place. I drive an electric car, and absolutely love it, but my bike is an ICE like almost all the other bikes on the roads here.
HD sales keep going down year after year though, their market share is under 2% now. My local dealer shut down years ago, well they didn't shut down, they just stopped selling HD, they are doing quite well selling other brands. It's a shame.
Where do you live?
Electric cars are a dying fad here in the us. The whole electric car thing is a scam
Get rid of that CEO and bring back bikes for regular working people. Nevermind I'm done with the brand.
second comment, a huge chunk of the lost sales are from the Sportster category, even the Pan America sales have plummeted. As for electric motorcycles, Energica filed for liquidation in October and they probably had the best electric motorcycles available. However their failure is from the parent company running out of money where the motorcycle group had more orders than they could fill.
I appreciate the video and your insights!
Check out the latest pricing for a new harley - 30 grand???? They need to get some models below 20K
@@brokenspokes6731 that is for touring models, there are some softails under 20k
@RidingintheOzarks after taxes and other fees, they turn into 20k bikes
Mike, when a dealer suddenly closes, it’s usually a bank foreclosure. It’s not a H-D H.O decision. A business owner usually tries to keep what’s coming up quiet in hopes he will make it through the storm and the last person you want them to hear of it is H-D corp so you can still get your orders in. The planned H-D closure are the ones who announce a closure date as their agreement with corp will not be renewed on a fixed date.
I figured as much but don’t want to guess at things too much. But as I understand it HD gets some sales business data from the dealers so they can see dealers that aren’t doing well to some level? My assumption is they know some dealers aren’t healthy and would like to trim them before it gets to this point.
I'm 59 years old, been riding for 18+ years and finally purchased my first Harley Davidson Motorcycle. 2024 Street Glide, WOW ! What a time to get into Harley Davidson!!! 😃😃😃 Amazing Machines! The 117 Motor is incredible! 😎
Great work Mike! Thanks for sharing!
CALIFORNIA DOESN’T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE EITHER! Only in selective locations. Definitely not here in the high deserts of Southern California.
Car dealerships are also closing. More new cars going to auction. More repo’s
The average Harley rider is what, 75 years old?
45 actually.
Harley must keep up with the market , boomers that have kept Harley going for years are getting old and not buying bikes like they use to, the younger guys prefer other style of bike’s and of course the economy and doesn’t help either .
Life goes on without HD. It’s a shame they deserted their base
GOOD
Got to say HD is starting to make me question their dedication to customers. I have a friend who bought a 2023 Tri glide with less than 3000 miles. Dealer said the owner said it was too big for him. Anyway in less than a few thousand miles his clutch went out. HD would not cover it saying it was a wear item. $800 later he made a couple of long trips and again the clutch is out. Again HD Said it would not cover it. Dealer said they needed to pull the motor to correct the problem but HD will not cover it. This guy has owned more than 20 Harleys and is a very experience rider. No way is it operator error. I can’t believe HD won’t cover a problem that is obviously an internal problem. So much for Harley Davidson!
Is he dealing directly with HDMC or only working thru the dealer?
Electric Motorcycles just do not have the range or recharge as fast as filling a gas tank.
Go woke go broke. Cant afford a new Harley anyway, I own 2, second hand bought privately. My 2003 Sportster is very reliable, I service myself never involve HD.
I walked past a Harley shop in Victoria, Texas and saw a basic motorcycle priced at $10,500. I kept walking. They have to be kidding. An engine, frame, two wheels, two tires, two instruments, one handle bar, one seat, one gas tank. = $10,500? Never.
Good update. 🤘⚡️🤘✨✨
The first Trump 4 years he put tariffs on products that directly impacted HD, John Deere. DJT made a big issue on HD so the EU responded to the tariffs he imposed by putting a31% tariff on HD bikes, HDs 2nd biggest markets. Hit Harley really hard - cost up+ tariffs on EU sales. Sales plummeted
Harley has no one to blame for the public losing interest in motorcycles.
Harley eliminated its future customers when they got president Ronald Reagan to put a tariff on imported motorcycles back in 1984.
I really couldn’t keep up with the technology coming out of Japan on motorcycles, the twins, V fours, flat, fours, six cylinders, fuel injection, even turbo chargers we’re becoming the norm on Japanese motorcycle so the public wasn’t buying Harleys. To put that into context, would you buy a black-and-white television today when you can buy a flatscreen high definition television? It was the same thing in 1984 in the motorcycle world.
so Harley got the CEO to approach Ronald Reagan on a patriotic level. President Ronald Reagan put a 45% tariff on all imported motorcycles.
there is not a writer I ever met that started out, riding a brand new Harley Davidson as their very first motorcycle ever. People start out on an inexpensive used Japanese motorcycle as their first motorcycle usually. Then as they learn to ride, they eventually move up to larger motorcycles, even Harleys…
well, what happened was, a lot of people could not afford the price of a motorcycle going up 45%. Eight $2999 750 from any of the big four, which was the starting price, I know, because I was selling motorcycles part time at that time. I sold motorcycles at several Japanese motorcycle shops for 17 years part time. so I $2999 motorcycle overnight at the whim of the president went to $4750. In today’s money, that would be like a Honda civic that list for $29,999, jumping to $47,500 because the president says so. That’s what happened to motorcycles prices.
Show rooms were deserted, in the first two years 1100 Japanese motorcycle dealers went out of business, there were 22 Japanese motorcycle dealerships within an hour of my home before the tariff, I worked in five of them, as either a mechanic, or a salesman over the years. I knew the mechanics, I knew the owners.
The average number of employees at those 1100 bankrupt motorcycle dealers that went under, was seven employees. What about those more than 7000 American jobs that were lost?
Young guys weren’t buying motorcycles for the first time and getting motorcycling in their blood, and that’s what happens, you get hooked. Call me when you spend money on accessories and more motorcycles. I myself am on my 111th motorcycle now. I have buddies that have had more than I have had…
so what happened was, hundreds of thousands of new blood never got into motorcycling because of the price due to the Harley tariff. They weren’t buying bigger bikes over the years, when they got married, they weren’t introducing their children to riding mini bikes and small dirt, bikes, and those kids would have graduated up, 2 Small St., bikes, and then bigger street bikes, and then those kids kids would have moved up incise and displacement… my kids all started riding dirt bikes at age 4, six, and seven. Now, they are starting my grand children out on small motorcycles. Because they already had it in their blood from me, I brought home motorcycles for them to ride, now, they are bringing home motorcycles for their children to ride.
but I got started in motorcycling back before the tariff. So I was hopelessly hooked.
today, hundreds of thousands of people never got interested in motorcycling because of the Harley tariff prices. Prices went up, and even after the tariffs expired after four years, the prices never came back down, and the damage was already done, thousands of dealers were out of business.
I mentioned that there were 22 dealerships within an hour of my home before the tariff, today, there are only two survivors still in business within an hour of my home. There were three up until last year, a Yamaha Suzuki shop about 20 minutes from my home, the original owner. The father of the current owners was a personal friend of actor, Steve McQueen. They rode Husqvarna’s together… I just learned this week, the third week here in November 2024, that unfortunately that dealership has been closed forever.. so that leaves two dealerships in my area, still in business that sell Japanese motorcycles. There are used to be three BMW dealers within an hour of my home, they are gone there used to be three moto guzzi dealers within 90 minutes of my home, gone.
The Harley tariff started these dominoes falling, and apparently they are still falling, because the public lost interest in motorcycling. I’m sure people noticed that Harley riders are generally older, in their 50s and 60s is the bulk of their fan base age. That’s because they got hooked before The tariff and switched to Harleys.. Now I realize that not everyone of those people that never Became an enthusiast in motorcycling because of the tariff, I realize not all of them would have eventually ended up buying a Harley, probably only a few hundred thousand of them would have switched to Harleys by now.
Harley brought this on themselves..
it’s ironic that the president that used the words, the scariest words I ever heard were, hello, I’m from the government and I’m here to help”
that is actually laughable, because Ronald Reagan did exactly what he said, are the scariest words he ever heard, government, stepping in to change/help business instead of letting the open market do its job. And Ronald Reagan actually crushed the motorcycle industry in this country 40 years ago, with that tariff, and it has never , And I don’t think it ever will recover.
here is a small example
There was a single year before the tariff that Yamaha sold 120,000 of its Yamaha XS 650 twin motorcycles in the United States they sold 120,000 of that bike in the US in one single year
After the tariff, Yamaha to this day has not sold 120,000 of every size motorcycle they make combined in a single year in the United States.
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I'm a simple guy and have a question.
What difference does market share make when you're talking about financials? If you're losing money, you're losing money regardless of whether you have 10, or 90% of the market share. At least that's the way I see it.
Please, someone educate me.
Ok my take on it, first they aren’t losing money but sales are down. Sales are down are the headlines but they are leaving out that sales are down for the industry and HD is doing better than the competition based on market share gain. These headlines affect market analyst ratings for stock which can affect stock price. I try to present the good and bad. Does that explain the why I think it’s important?