Brilliant idea about pausing the timer (using GPS) when stopped at traffic lights. It’s a no brainer. Would definitely entice me to actually try one out instead of getting the bus.
It reminds me of the quote "It's hard to make a person understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it". How can you make a cyclist stop at a red light when you are effectively fining them for stopping? Charging per distance instead of time could help reduce the rush feeling. You are usually going a set distance, so now you can travel as slow as you like and not worry about paying more.
A combination of distance and time is probably the best way. The problem with purely charging distance is that people would take them home and never give them back. It's an almost impossible task to try to prevent people hogging them whilst simultaneously not putting pressure on them to end the ride!
It's not just ebikers that jump red lights. Plenty of push bikers also push their luck! I'm out in the sticks and currently drive and during the summer face the hordes of those that herd together and fill the narrow lanes. Cutting blind corners is another method of terrifying us drivers. I very nearly gained a new mascot or two when a bunch thought they could do a 45 degree shortcut at a T junction. Meanwhile, at 76 I'm saving hard for my first ebike and hope to be (back on) two wheels this summer. Love the vids and reviews. Keep them coming!.
Been research ebikes extensively with a view to buying one for my partner in Cambridge (No.1 cycling city, allegedly) we worked out that her 4/5 mile commute between home and work for cost a conservative £140/month to use the city's rental bikes - that buys a lot of ebike over time! Thank you for the superb reviews and bright, informed delivery. Very welcome :) Also added my pennyworth to the govt consultation. tend to agree with 500w and certainly a throttle to assist with those less able/less fit to ride a bike. totally agree that a basic Cycling proficiency test (remember them?) would be good if not something akin to the CBT for motorised bikes.
I want to see Beryl, in Norwich, implement a "Bounty Hunter" scheme. It would use say £7 of the £10 pound fee from out of bay stops, and pay it to users who go out to find abandoned bikes and return them to there nearest station. This could also extend to rewarding users who tidy up stray bike clusters with maybe ride credit? Cost per time rather than cost per mile seems like a bad way to have this sort of service, encouraging bad behaviour all round and penalising less active/able riders. Seems like maybe company/shareholder greed at play?
This is my argument for regulation of electric scooters. The feedback from rental schemes really isn't indicative of private ownership. Complaints about things like scooters being trashed or left in obstructive places just wouldn't be a problem because people wouldn't do that to their private, paid-for scooters. Dangerous use also comes with novelty. A rental scooter is a toy you have no responsibility for. Some people will be reckless because they aren't accountable for the scooter. The UK needs to regulate ASAP.
You are right , but , E-bikes are expensive to buy generally and a lot of people do not want to deal with the hassle of finding a place for them , locking them up , stopping them from getting nicked , and I would take a punt the powers that be want to promote the E bikes for tourism and to try and alleviate some of the congestion problems by just having an easy access very easy to use form of transport that can be picked up quickly and left just as fast. It’s a catch 22. As for the reckless use thing , yeah ……… nah , people do not need a reason to be reckless , but for sure for a percentage rental E bikes probably makes it more fun for them.
Not only the UK. Here a company got away with someone getting injured because their scooter was in the way without paying anything to cover the damage, because it couldn't be proven who placed the scooter in that very spot. If that is the case, they should be banned entirely. (Talking about scooters, although e-bikes are starting to go into the same direction)
I was renting scooters once for a while. I was very stressed during driving since you have to pay for each minute. The stress was going away as i "checked out" the scooter, but then frustration filled my mind since the scooters are overpriced. Both are "good" reasons to either drive across red lights (if the way is obviously free of cars etc) or due to frustration because of the high price, slow speed etc to then throw the scooter/e-bike wherever you want. In fact i have seen already people destroying those scooters and e-bikes on purpose because of those greedy rental services, and i am fine with it.... they need to be removed anyways.
we have those lime bikes in US . i like them but agree about rushing to try and get value . Thanks Eilis for bringing up the issue of Price per minute VS price per Distance . that free public bikes thing is great but may not work in places of high crime maybe . Then again i see literally Millions of bikes trashed in China . Would be good to have a few hundred per Western city publicly free for folks .
It is a real problem out there, thankfully in London you do have the Santander Bikes which do make things generally cheaper. 30 mins per £1.65 is quite a no brainer when you come to think of it, as it is subsidised by TFL and maintained by Santander. Even if you get a monthly/yearly subscription that 1.65 is now for 60 minutes, that sort of thing prevents stupid incidents like you mentioned. (Red light jumping and overall bad riding) I generally cycle from Zone 2 to Zone 1, and yes I see that Santander Riders ride much better than these other schemes.
Tell me about it. Some car owners get well jealous! I can do 50 miles and it will cost me no more than 50p how much would that cost them in petrol? I'm guessing a lot more than 50p
Passing a cycling proficiency test would go some way to make sure we are all on the same page ( I did this in Junior school ). If you don't follow some form of training then how are you expected to follow the highway code. Let's be honest, people have bugger all common sense nowadays. I've driven push bikes, motor bikes, cars, vans and lorries, so I get the need for us all to follow the same rules!!
Unfortunately some people are just lazy, selfish entitled unthinking reckless gits , there is a percentage of population that will be very hard to change their attitude. And others are just to ingrained and won’t be changed . Perhaps having more coppers on patrol actively pulling people up for their bad behavior and either educating them or fining them at the officer’s discretion might be a good thing ?. Some humans are bought up well with a good sense of right and wrong , others …… not so much. Of course the powers that be that control bobby policy probably don’t want to see coppers booking their good citizens and possibly putting a hole in their idealist bike nirvana …… so I doubt the coppers targeting bad bike behavior will happen. I do think coppers actively pulling people up works , riding on the footpaths where they shouldn’t be , reckless riding, riding through red lights , recklessly parking the bikes up where people could trip over them, and yes that goes double for people with disabilities and oldies being effected by that..
I wonder why they’re called Boris bikes? It was Ken Livingstone’s idea and it was he that implemented it, so Ken Bikes would be more accurate. Although they were sponsored by Barclay’s, so even if you wanted the alliteration there was an option for more suitable naming.
Hey Electroheads , thanks to you i purchased a Volt London -bike that i must admit i really enjoy although i would rather have the option to use Full Electric when i wanted like the not Legal e-bikes i see cruising around London every day . The E-bikes that can be parked wherever you choose DO cause not only a lot of distress to pedestrians but also a lot of damage when dumped against expensive cars or when the London Crazies come out at night to throw them all over the place and also i have seen a Hell of a Lot of people pick up the rear of the bike and slam it down while moving forward so they can Break the security wheel lock. And finally the lime bikes are SO POORLEY maintained even from your Vlog you can see the seriously Rusting chain and commonly seen flat spots on tyres as the Santander bikes are in a fixed Bay they appear to be better cared for and very rare to see one blocking a footpath. LOVE YOUR CONTENT ELECTROHEADS
In Ireland we have a company called Bleeper, they charge €1 for unlocking and then just €0.16 per minute, or €0.08 if you're paused (i.e in a shop grabbing a drink while still planning to use the bike) My last trip on them (I opted for a non electric bike so calculating it based on the numbers above) would have cost €3.24 for my 14 minute 3.5km journey A bus would have cost me €2, but taken 2-3 times as long due to the traffic on that day. I knew I was going to pay more, but I paid for the convenience and time saved, if I was using these bikes everyday I'd get fed up of that cost.
Prebooked ride passes are much more economical than just jumping on. And can be booked very quickly. I used lime for 3 months plus for a daily 10 mile commute (20 miles per day). Really like them. Have started seeing more parking restrictions though. I cycled to my GP surgery, found I was not allowed to park, and the nearest parking bays were as far away as my home, so cycled back home, applied for a refund, and took the car to the GP!
As a white cane using Londoner, there are not many days when I don’t find a neighbour’s lime bike blocking the pavement. The light crashing is a more general cyclist problem. I’ve even had cyclists remonstrate with me for forcing the, to brake at red lights by, y’know, crossing the road. Yeah, cars are worse If they hit you, but even the least considerate Chelsea tractorist will generally try not to squish pedestrians.
I don’t think the extra power causes the rider to be more reckless but there is no doubt the stopping distance from such a high speed is so much longer (than a pedal bike) that many riders probably find it easier to take a chance on jumping the red and weaving pedestrian crossers than trying to stop..
29p a minute is insane. In my city (Eugene, Oregon) it's $1 per unlock and 10c a minute, though these are analog, not electric bikes. It's cheaper if you are a student or employee of the university. You can also sign up for a monthly scheme if you're a regular user to be even cheaper.
Eilis, this is a problem that people could only guess at, why do rental ebikers jump lights. So the best thing has to be to change the rental model. How about rental by eg the half hour, then the time critcality of movement vs waiting declines, also people might also enjoy using the bike not just racing flat out all the time to save money, leading to higher customer satisfaction. Also, observers especially unfit ones will see these riders actually enjoying their ride and be tempted in. Those rental rates are bonkers high though, something needs to be done there. Stonking video, pertinent and real. Watching out for the next EilisFix...
I'd like to suggest a topic... disability/old age etc., I'm 60 & had a big stroke but I really wanted to get away from driving my suv everywhere, so I bought an ebike with a mid motor, torque sensor and 20 inch wheels. I have balance issues and I quickly realised I should have got a bike with bigger wheels, I'm doing ok with it but it's taken a few weeks to get confident. Pot holes make it hard not to fall off. Also maybe I should have gone for a cadence sensor, at first I fell off a few times because my bike takes off instantly and really fast. It'd be great to hear suggestions and see some more info out there!
When I've visited London I've used the Lime bikes as I couldn't fit my Super 73 in the car and quickly the costs add up and I really felt the pressure at every red light really wanting to go knowing it was costing so I can see why those who care less about following traffic rules would definitley do this sadly. Cost per mile would be a better system for fairness and safety.
The problem isn't the bikes. Other countries have successful bike & e-scooter hire schemes. The places where it works best, have a comprehensive cycle lane network. In Finland, for instance, it is rare for a cyclist to use the road in towns & cities as most of the pavements are wider & they are usually divided into clearly marked cycle/e-scooter lanes & pedestrian lanes. There are zebra crossings across the cycle lanes and the lanes have a picture of a bike on the ground, if the bike is upside down, you're going the wrong way. Most people tend to opt for the e-scooter as there is no need to return them to a dedicated bay and 99% of users park them responsibly.
Hi @electroheads I was also hoping for an instant review on the bikes themselves (weight, comfort etc) and compare them with your best selling ones. You may have done this before… also, great to see you running!
Why do take lime/etc bikes when Santander bikes are £1/day, first half hour of each trip free. That is _so_ much cheaper (factor of 5 or 10 for most people?) (and doesn't need a stupid proprietary app - again forest excepted as the only one of these outfits I've ever found that will just let you use a website). But you are right that 'stop the clock when not moving' is a really good idea. I hope it gets some traction.
that per time fee will get you! and yes, i do think it causes people who would otherwise behave better to try and rush instead of being as safe as possible. longer term hire schemes like swapfiets with per month fees, or a rent to own situation (particularly for ebikes) definitely would encourage a higher standard of safety.
I've just become a bike nonce with a nearly new e bike. I've only done 30 miles so far and my experience is that the majority of people are fine with cyclists, I've encountered some really aggressive drivers but overall it's been a positive experience. I'm an experienced driver, with a full clean licence with lots of extras on it. I've been driving for more than 35 years and I've driven cars bikes and trucks as well as driving for a living in the past, so i am seeing things from all angles. I'm in Fife, Scotland so it certainly is nothing like London, some of the local cycle routes are pretty much off road affairs but we do have some excellent cycle paths. A topic that comes up alot with people that i talk to is the law around cyclists. I note in your video that people hiring e bikes in the city aren't wearing helmets and it doesn't look like you get one with a hire bike? I was under the impression a helmet was mandatory? Am i wrong on this? Do the met police even bother with cyclists breaking the rules like jumping red lights, cycling on the pavement or not wearing a helmet? I'd be interested to know because electric bikes are a bit of a novelty where i am and there aren't many people to talk to about it. Paul
Here in Singapore we have cars that have rental-by-the-minute and the drivers of those Private Hire Vehicles have a reputation for rushing/jumping red lights to try and save a few minutes off their rental! But, it seems that cyclists (e bikes and acoustic bikes too) like to ignore stop lights globally. There's been a lot of talk about getting police to enforce Red Light Jumping more seriously, or else would it be sensible for the law to change to have red lights be taken as 'give way' signs in the UK? Some places in the US, and some junctions in Paris IIRC have exceptions carved out to allow cyclists to continue through a red light if it's safe. All in all though, don't jump red lights, non-cyclists love to get very shouty and finger-pointy about it.
Pause the meter, and add a couple of free seconds when traffic lights, other rules, are respected should be a simple way to reduce the issue a lot. A fine for not parking correctly, combined with giving say half of that fine as credit to users that picks up the bikes, either for using themselves directly or parking them properly, and use the credit later. That might keep the problem at an acceptable level, without costing the company anything, while also keeping the system as inclusive as possible.
But if you notice most of the bikes and scooters have their stand down, which means the vehicles were parked properly but have either blown down by the wind or deliberately knocked over, anyone who was going to leave the bike laid down would simply dump it on the ground.
Yes! I live in the Lakes and the push bikers are a nightmare, but they are sweetness and light in comparison to ebike. How the hell you can take one on the road without sitting at a minimum of a motorcycle CBT, where you learn things like life savers (something that all cyclists seem to ignore), correct corner alignment and perhaps most importantly safe breaking distance because I am pissed off by how many time ebikes have hit the back of my car (and my motorcycle) when things like sheep/pedestrians/other cyclist have caused an emergency stop. Drafting cars is dangerous at the best of times doing it on a narrow rural road is suicidal, but some cyclists seem to think it's their right regardless of their personal safety.
I haven't lived in the UK for almost half a century, and I have a question. Do these rental bikes have 3rd party insurance. Here where I live most people have a private 3rd party insurance that also covers the bicycle. A work mate of mine caused an accident while riding his bike. Having no insurance he was forced to sell his house to cover the damages claim.
From an economics standpoint, if you live near mass transit, it should be cheaper than an E-bike (or E-scooter), although e-bikes may save you time. Where E-bikes shine is when you do not live near mass transit or for very short trips. In both cases, it save you time, either by not needing to walk to and from the transitstop for the former or by not waiting for the train/bus for the latter. And of course, time can be considered money.
Oh no, went through a red light! If they did pause the cost when stopped it might make the companies MORE money as people might be more inclined to use it. Either way the price is simply too high, even for London. You can't fine people for bikes having fallen over, most of the time it was others who pushed it over. £20 m is not a high price to pay for infrastructure, it is a fraction of putting in something like a roundabout for cars.
And yes , mentioning infrastructure, they need to have adequate bike racks , they want people on bikes , and want them left not laying all over the place …..where are all the bike racks ?
just got an e bike and my local council has banned them on all the roads round the city centre .My main reason for buying it was to go to the city centre .
It’s an easy fix; The government needs to roll out its own network. Make all hire free of charge and all users need a “bike hire license” (you could even introduce a bike test/course) to use, however - any infringements including leaving the bike in a hazardous or unsightly way incur large fines similar to what any motorist might expect. This way you could even program into the bike’s software red light jumping, speeding through pedestrian zones ect…. Those idiots who are the dangerous and discourteous ones would end up paying for the scheme and the rest of us get free bike usage! Win win 👍🏾
Yes it has. More and more people are getting on 2 wheels but with power, and these are people that have very little knowledge of using the roads or experience of the rules. At least under your own power your fitness determines how fast and how long you go for, with battery power and with many ignoring the power limits ebikes are over powered (many not wearing appropriate protective gear). That being said with rental bikes the speed is limited and you can't get around that, but for people who own their own bikes or who have converted a pushbike, there is nothing to stop them.
There is a call to allow bicycles to right to safely pass red lights, in some cases it would make good sense as car drivers and others still get annoyed at waiting behind bikes as they pull away from traffic lights.
I have seen these rental bikes in Glasgow City Centre. I have never seen anyone riding them though. I didn't know you had to pay by credit/debit card. I thought users put coins into a meter, say £3.00 for 1 hour. I can't believe I was so naive! 😣
Absolutely loads of Lime bikes are effectively stolen by bypassing the wheel lock and riding off then dumping at the end. No account to trace, no fines for bad parking, no time pressure but stopping can make the wheel lock engage again so they won’t want to stop for anything. Lime don’t seem to care, they’d rather keep chucking more bikes on the streets than fix the ones out there.
People are still claiming that on a bike, you can't injure others. So they disrespect all laws because they say they aren't dangerous and if someone crashes it couldn't be their fault. Just saw that in a German comment section on here...
I only started riding rental e-bikes about 8 months ago. When I started, I stopped at every traffic light and rode exactly how you are supposed to on the road. Then in quickly learnt that: a) Nobody else is doing the same b) I am being penalised by Lime/Forest for cycling safely c) Nobody gives a shit. Shame to say, I started behaving in a similar manor. I am soon to buy an e-bike and when it doesn't cost me a lot of money, I will stop when I'm supposed to again. I think as well, while motorists need to learn that cyclists have an equal right to the road as them, many cyclists also need to learn that they need to follow the law when on the road.
…because then you could keep the bike all day. E.g. train into the city, grab a bike at the station, cycle to work, take it into your office building, then cycle back to the station at the end of the day, thus eliminating the possibility of others’ use of that bike for the whole working day. Or, just cycle to a meeting, hold onto it for a few hours, before cycling back.
6:50 Usuali person parking bike does a good job, but you need to remember that bike after parking is not bolted to the ground. And many people who dislike rentals bikes and scooters will knock them over for fun.
I've been run over by a cyclist on the pavement and nearly hit on two occasions by electric bikes/scooters. Time to crack down by the Police so that pedestrians can walk safely.
Leeds are breaking these clunkers out, cost thousands for street hardware and the bikes, so the user gets to pay, £1 unlock, 16p a minute. Terrible. People who have never ridden a bike in decades will hire these instead of a taxi, after they have had a couple of beers in the pub and want to go on to a city center pub. I want to be free to ride my scooter like I did my motorbike and Land Rover, safely and with skill. The pricing on these bikes is really shocking, 16p a minute, 20 min ride is £3.20 which equates to getting halfway into town yet 2 or 3 splitting a taxi pay less each than a bike each without any hassle or level of alcohol factoring.
In terms of the £1 unlock and 29p per minute ride, wouldn’t it then make sense to buy a Lime ride pass? Say you only need to ride for about 5 or 10 mins to a station and then get another lime bike from there. If you get the pass It’ll cost about £3.99 for 30mins with free unlock and you can keep the remaining minutes for about 3 or 4 days. I’ve used this method and while it does take a sting out of my bank account, I wont have to worry about paying every minute even if I stop at a red light. I’ll leave the Ride Pass Prices on here for anyone who wants to read and compare 30 min Ride - £3.99 60 min Ride - £6.99 200 min (3.33 hrs) Ride - £18.99 400 min (6.67 hrs) Ride - £36.99 Sidenote, you can get a discount if you wear a cycling helmet on the app (it’s about 20% off I think). Also, it is a piss take having to see bikes just left on the floor instead of being propped up and put back in it’s place.
I find rental bikes stupid, they pollute pedestrian paths and those with specific docks cause inconvenience. Here, we have two wheeler taxis (moped taxis) that are cheaper and more convenient (not to mention a professional driver is driving you)than renting a bicycle. Though all of them still run on gasoline.
For me, when I used public transport to get to and from work, it was $9.20 return trip per day. E-scooter was $1000. So, just over 100 working days, plus the scooter can be used for other trips, not just work.
Given the years spent trialling these ebike schemes I’m surprised they haven’t tested alternative ways of pricing the rentals if it is causing poor rider behaviour.
I think it's also because it's not their bike so there is not as much respect for the property. Its not just the users it's a-holes moving them on purpose. Could make it so you have to tether them securely before they log off or it continues to charge you. I have to dodge them and e scooters all the time.
How do the bikes get placed out of place? Who parks their rental bike on its side? I believe it’s done deliberately by those people who want them off the streets, do what I do, stop stand them up properly!
The bad electric bikers are a result of a mindset that translates to cars (and life?). I honestly don't think much can be done except arrest and/or heavy fines.
There is no obligation to wear a helmet on a limited speed e-bike anywhere in the UK or the EU. They are treated the same as a human powered bikes. These hire bikes are limited to 15.5 mph. Anything over that requires helmet, registration and license...
@@zivkovicable Hi, are these hire bikes actually speed limited to 15.5 or is the motor assist limited to this and if you pedal harder or downhill you can go faster on them?
@@chrislumb963 like any bike gravity will take you down hill if you freewheel, but they won’t actually exceed the speed limit by pedalling faster unlike standard e-bikes .Most barely make it to 15…They are pretty heavy..
correction, those bikes were the last thing that Ken Livingstone sorted prior to his departure, Bozo had very little to do with the implementation, just took all the glory as always!!
Rental bikers can definitely be reckless, but I think the vast majority of incorrectly parked bikes and scooters are from people who actively want to sabotage and give rental micromobility a bad name. Just the other day I saw someone push a fallen over e-scooter out into the middle of the bikelane, and of course, just a minute down the same lane I found another one.
Am seeing a huge sudden increase in Swapfiets monthly hire e-bikes; probably makes financial sense for people not to spend a huge sum in one go, and they would take care of the bikes as well as avoiding the red light running behaviour. The only loser here might be the Electroheads :()
Have electric rental bikes created reckless riding? No. This issue is hugely overshadowed by the problem of delivery riders on L1 electric mopeds who are paid by the gig economy where time and performance creates an arms race. I recently was in a transport meeting with a national infrastructure provider who were considering banning all eBikes from premises based on their misunderstanding of what an eBike actually is. When poor quality equipment wrongly dubbed eBikes are burning houses down all over the news and people in balaclavas are ripping though pedestrianised areas faster than you can legally drive on the adjacent road with no test, registration, license or insurance there are bigger fish to fry than rental bike rider behaviour.
Hi there. I'm a fat lazy baby boomer weighing in at over 400 pounds. I can't remember the last time I rode a push bike but I do fancy one of those e-bikes and have plenty of cash to throw at one. What would you recommend?
Cyclists are a nuisance on british roads - I cycle every day to keep fit and use offroad or pavements wherever I can. Best thing I ever got for my bike was a big wing mirror so I can see behind me & pull over to let lorries pass etc. e-bikes just takes the menace to a higher level - so they can be even more inconsiderate and intolerant.
Brilliant idea about pausing the timer (using GPS) when stopped at traffic lights. It’s a no brainer. Would definitely entice me to actually try one out instead of getting the bus.
It reminds me of the quote "It's hard to make a person understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it". How can you make a cyclist stop at a red light when you are effectively fining them for stopping?
Charging per distance instead of time could help reduce the rush feeling. You are usually going a set distance, so now you can travel as slow as you like and not worry about paying more.
Fine them more for not stopping perhaps?
A combination of distance and time is probably the best way. The problem with purely charging distance is that people would take them home and never give them back. It's an almost impossible task to try to prevent people hogging them whilst simultaneously not putting pressure on them to end the ride!
It's not just ebikers that jump red lights. Plenty of push bikers also push their luck!
I'm out in the sticks and currently drive and during the summer face the hordes of those that herd together and fill the narrow lanes. Cutting blind corners is another method of terrifying us drivers. I very nearly gained a new mascot or two when a bunch thought they could do a 45 degree shortcut at a T junction.
Meanwhile, at 76 I'm saving hard for my first ebike and hope to be (back on) two wheels this summer.
Love the vids and reviews. Keep them coming!.
Been research ebikes extensively with a view to buying one for my partner in Cambridge (No.1 cycling city, allegedly) we worked out that her 4/5 mile commute between home and work for cost a conservative £140/month to use the city's rental bikes - that buys a lot of ebike over time! Thank you for the superb reviews and bright, informed delivery. Very welcome :)
Also added my pennyworth to the govt consultation. tend to agree with 500w and certainly a throttle to assist with those less able/less fit to ride a bike. totally agree that a basic Cycling proficiency test (remember them?) would be good if not something akin to the CBT for motorised bikes.
I want to see Beryl, in Norwich, implement a "Bounty Hunter" scheme. It would use say £7 of the £10 pound fee from out of bay stops, and pay it to users who go out to find abandoned bikes and return them to there nearest station. This could also extend to rewarding users who tidy up stray bike clusters with maybe ride credit?
Cost per time rather than cost per mile seems like a bad way to have this sort of service, encouraging bad behaviour all round and penalising less active/able riders. Seems like maybe company/shareholder greed at play?
This is my argument for regulation of electric scooters. The feedback from rental schemes really isn't indicative of private ownership. Complaints about things like scooters being trashed or left in obstructive places just wouldn't be a problem because people wouldn't do that to their private, paid-for scooters.
Dangerous use also comes with novelty. A rental scooter is a toy you have no responsibility for. Some people will be reckless because they aren't accountable for the scooter. The UK needs to regulate ASAP.
You are right , but , E-bikes are expensive to buy generally and a lot of people do not want to deal with the hassle of finding a place for them , locking them up , stopping them from getting nicked , and I would take a punt the powers that be want to promote the E bikes for tourism and to try and alleviate some of the congestion problems by just having an easy access very easy to use form of transport that can be picked up quickly and left just as fast.
It’s a catch 22.
As for the reckless use thing , yeah ……… nah , people do not need a reason to be reckless , but for sure for a percentage rental E bikes probably makes it more fun for them.
Man I can’t wait to buy Emove touring once escooter is legalised
@@shahan1465 This is a UK TH-cam channel and e bikes are already legal in the UK 🇬🇧 at 15mph max speed 👍🏾
This applies to a lot of things. Another example is charging cables for EV cars. People drop them on the floor and are reckless with them.
Not only the UK. Here a company got away with someone getting injured because their scooter was in the way without paying anything to cover the damage, because it couldn't be proven who placed the scooter in that very spot. If that is the case, they should be banned entirely. (Talking about scooters, although e-bikes are starting to go into the same direction)
I was renting scooters once for a while.
I was very stressed during driving since you have to pay for each minute. The stress was going away as i "checked out" the scooter, but then frustration filled my mind since the scooters are overpriced.
Both are "good" reasons to either drive across red lights (if the way is obviously free of cars etc) or due to frustration because of the high price, slow speed etc to then throw the scooter/e-bike wherever you want.
In fact i have seen already people destroying those scooters and e-bikes on purpose because of those greedy rental services, and i am fine with it.... they need to be removed anyways.
we have those lime bikes in US . i like them but agree about rushing to try and get value . Thanks Eilis for bringing up the issue of Price per minute VS price per Distance . that free public bikes thing is great but may not work in places of high crime maybe . Then again i see literally Millions of bikes trashed in China . Would be good to have a few hundred per Western city publicly free for folks .
It is a real problem out there, thankfully in London you do have the Santander Bikes which do make things generally cheaper.
30 mins per £1.65 is quite a no brainer when you come to think of it, as it is subsidised by TFL and maintained by Santander.
Even if you get a monthly/yearly subscription that 1.65 is now for 60 minutes, that sort of thing prevents stupid incidents like you mentioned. (Red light jumping and overall bad riding)
I generally cycle from Zone 2 to Zone 1, and yes I see that Santander Riders ride much better than these other schemes.
Wow I had no idea Lime bikes are so expensive. So happy I have my own EBike - every ride costs a couple of pence in electricity. :-)
Tell me about it. Some car owners get well jealous! I can do 50 miles and it will cost me no more than 50p how much would that cost them in petrol? I'm guessing a lot more than 50p
@@mikehunt1528 Aye, hehe! :D
Passing a cycling proficiency test would go some way to make sure we are all on the same page ( I did this in Junior school ). If you don't follow some form of training then how are you expected to follow the highway code. Let's be honest, people have bugger all common sense nowadays. I've driven push bikes, motor bikes, cars, vans and lorries, so I get the need for us all to follow the same rules!!
Mine was in a playground at age 10. Still, vastly different when faced with real traffic.
@@badabing8884 The idea of some form of CBT for bikes is an idea.
@@badabing8884 Called Bikeability nowadays, playground session followed by 4 or 5 hours on the road.
Unfortunately some people are just lazy, selfish entitled unthinking reckless gits , there is a percentage of population that will be very hard to change their attitude. And others are just to ingrained and won’t be changed .
Perhaps having more coppers on patrol actively pulling people up for their bad behavior and either educating them or fining them at the officer’s discretion might be a good thing ?.
Some humans are bought up well with a good sense of right and wrong , others …… not so much.
Of course the powers that be that control bobby policy probably don’t want to see coppers booking their good citizens and possibly putting a hole in their idealist bike nirvana …… so I doubt the coppers targeting bad bike behavior will happen.
I do think coppers actively pulling people up works , riding on the footpaths where they shouldn’t be , reckless riding, riding through red lights , recklessly parking the bikes up where people could trip over them, and yes that goes double for people with disabilities and oldies being effected by that..
All road users should take part in hazard perception and safety training every year
I wonder why they’re called Boris bikes? It was Ken Livingstone’s idea and it was he that implemented it, so Ken Bikes would be more accurate. Although they were sponsored by Barclay’s, so even if you wanted the alliteration there was an option for more suitable naming.
Great suggestion about pausing the timer when stopping at lights .
Hey Electroheads , thanks to you i purchased a Volt London -bike that i must admit i really enjoy although i would rather have the option to use Full Electric when i wanted like the not Legal e-bikes i see cruising around London every day .
The E-bikes that can be parked wherever you choose DO cause not only a lot of distress to pedestrians but also a lot of damage when dumped against expensive cars or when the London Crazies come out at night to throw them all over the place and also i have seen a Hell of a Lot of people pick up the rear of the bike and slam it down while moving forward so they can Break the security wheel lock.
And finally the lime bikes are SO POORLEY maintained even from your Vlog you can see the seriously Rusting chain and commonly seen flat spots on tyres as the Santander bikes are in a fixed Bay they appear to be better cared for and very rare to see one blocking a footpath.
LOVE YOUR CONTENT ELECTROHEADS
In Ireland we have a company called Bleeper, they charge €1 for unlocking and then just €0.16 per minute, or €0.08 if you're paused (i.e in a shop grabbing a drink while still planning to use the bike)
My last trip on them (I opted for a non electric bike so calculating it based on the numbers above) would have cost €3.24 for my 14 minute 3.5km journey
A bus would have cost me €2, but taken 2-3 times as long due to the traffic on that day. I knew I was going to pay more, but I paid for the convenience and time saved, if I was using these bikes everyday I'd get fed up of that cost.
i like the bit at 0:23 where you run out of the shop and the thief just runs off and doesn’t physically confront you. 😂
Prebooked ride passes are much more economical than just jumping on. And can be booked very quickly. I used lime for 3 months plus for a daily 10 mile commute (20 miles per day). Really like them. Have started seeing more parking restrictions though. I cycled to my GP surgery, found I was not allowed to park, and the nearest parking bays were as far away as my home, so cycled back home, applied for a refund, and took the car to the GP!
As a white cane using Londoner, there are not many days when I don’t find a neighbour’s lime bike blocking the pavement. The light crashing is a more general cyclist problem. I’ve even had cyclists remonstrate with me for forcing the, to brake at red lights by, y’know, crossing the road. Yeah, cars are worse If they hit you, but even the least considerate Chelsea tractorist will generally try not to squish pedestrians.
I don’t think the extra power causes the rider to be more reckless but there is no doubt the stopping distance from such a high speed is so much longer (than a pedal bike) that many riders probably find it easier to take a chance on jumping the red and weaving pedestrian crossers than trying to stop..
29p a minute is insane.
In my city (Eugene, Oregon) it's $1 per unlock and 10c a minute, though these are analog, not electric bikes. It's cheaper if you are a student or employee of the university. You can also sign up for a monthly scheme if you're a regular user to be even cheaper.
London is notoriously expensive.
It wasn't Boris, it was Livingstone.
Annoys the hell out of me that Boris gets the credit
Is there a link to the video you spoke about at the end?
its called "Electric bikes could be getting MORE power…"
@@NWforager thank you... I really should've thought to type that lmao
Fantastic idea about the charge pause!! Love the channel!!😊
Eilis, this is a problem that people could only guess at, why do rental ebikers jump lights. So the best thing has to be to change the rental model. How about rental by eg the half hour, then the time critcality of movement vs waiting declines, also people might also enjoy using the bike not just racing flat out all the time to save money, leading to higher customer satisfaction. Also, observers especially unfit ones will see these riders actually enjoying their ride and be tempted in. Those rental rates are bonkers high though, something needs to be done there. Stonking video, pertinent and real. Watching out for the next EilisFix...
I'd like to suggest a topic... disability/old age etc., I'm 60 & had a big stroke but I really wanted to get away from driving my suv everywhere, so I bought an ebike with a mid motor, torque sensor and 20 inch wheels. I have balance issues and I quickly realised I should have got a bike with bigger wheels, I'm doing ok with it but it's taken a few weeks to get confident. Pot holes make it hard not to fall off. Also maybe I should have gone for a cadence sensor, at first I fell off a few times because my bike takes off instantly and really fast. It'd be great to hear suggestions and see some more info out there!
Was awesome to see you at Critical Mass on Sunday, Estarli gang 🤘
When I've visited London I've used the Lime bikes as I couldn't fit my Super 73 in the car and quickly the costs add up and I really felt the pressure at every red light really wanting to go knowing it was costing so I can see why those who care less about following traffic rules would definitley do this sadly. Cost per mile would be a better system for fairness and safety.
here in Toronto, we're $120/year cad + 12¢/ minute for electric or free for 30 minutes for acoustic.
or $1.00 to unlock and 10-20¢/ minute
The problem isn't the bikes. Other countries have successful bike & e-scooter hire schemes. The places where it works best, have a comprehensive cycle lane network.
In Finland, for instance, it is rare for a cyclist to use the road in towns & cities as most of the pavements are wider & they are usually divided into clearly marked cycle/e-scooter lanes & pedestrian lanes. There are zebra crossings across the cycle lanes and the lanes have a picture of a bike on the ground, if the bike is upside down, you're going the wrong way. Most people tend to opt for the e-scooter as there is no need to return them to a dedicated bay and 99% of users park them responsibly.
Anything rented will be more abused than if you had paid hard cash for it. You will also be more careful and considerate where you park it.
Hi @electroheads I was also hoping for an instant review on the bikes themselves (weight, comfort etc) and compare them with your best selling ones. You may have done this before… also, great to see you running!
Why do take lime/etc bikes when Santander bikes are £1/day, first half hour of each trip free. That is _so_ much cheaper (factor of 5 or 10 for most people?) (and doesn't need a stupid proprietary app - again forest excepted as the only one of these outfits I've ever found that will just let you use a website).
But you are right that 'stop the clock when not moving' is a really good idea. I hope it gets some traction.
that per time fee will get you! and yes, i do think it causes people who would otherwise behave better to try and rush instead of being as safe as possible. longer term hire schemes like swapfiets with per month fees, or a rent to own situation (particularly for ebikes) definitely would encourage a higher standard of safety.
7:03 Paris made special zones for rental bike parking. It solved the parking issue quite effectively
I've just become a bike nonce with a nearly new e bike. I've only done 30 miles so far and my experience is that the majority of people are fine with cyclists, I've encountered some really aggressive drivers but overall it's been a positive experience. I'm an experienced driver, with a full clean licence with lots of extras on it. I've been driving for more than 35 years and I've driven cars bikes and trucks as well as driving for a living in the past, so i am seeing things from all angles. I'm in Fife, Scotland so it certainly is nothing like London, some of the local cycle routes are pretty much off road affairs but we do have some excellent cycle paths. A topic that comes up alot with people that i talk to is the law around cyclists. I note in your video that people hiring e bikes in the city aren't wearing helmets and it doesn't look like you get one with a hire bike? I was under the impression a helmet was mandatory? Am i wrong on this? Do the met police even bother with cyclists breaking the rules like jumping red lights, cycling on the pavement or not wearing a helmet? I'd be interested to know because electric bikes are a bit of a novelty where i am and there aren't many people to talk to about it.
Paul
Here in Singapore we have cars that have rental-by-the-minute and the drivers of those Private Hire Vehicles have a reputation for rushing/jumping red lights to try and save a few minutes off their rental! But, it seems that cyclists (e bikes and acoustic bikes too) like to ignore stop lights globally. There's been a lot of talk about getting police to enforce Red Light Jumping more seriously, or else would it be sensible for the law to change to have red lights be taken as 'give way' signs in the UK? Some places in the US, and some junctions in Paris IIRC have exceptions carved out to allow cyclists to continue through a red light if it's safe. All in all though, don't jump red lights, non-cyclists love to get very shouty and finger-pointy about it.
Pause the meter, and add a couple of free seconds when traffic lights, other rules, are respected should be a simple way to reduce the issue a lot.
A fine for not parking correctly, combined with giving say half of that fine as credit to users that picks up the bikes, either for using themselves directly or parking them properly, and use the credit later. That might keep the problem at an acceptable level, without costing the company anything, while also keeping the system as inclusive as possible.
But if you notice most of the bikes and scooters have their stand down, which means the vehicles were parked properly but have either blown down by the wind or deliberately knocked over, anyone who was going to leave the bike laid down would simply dump it on the ground.
Yes! I live in the Lakes and the push bikers are a nightmare, but they are sweetness and light in comparison to ebike. How the hell you can take one on the road without sitting at a minimum of a motorcycle CBT, where you learn things like life savers (something that all cyclists seem to ignore), correct corner alignment and perhaps most importantly safe breaking distance because I am pissed off by how many time ebikes have hit the back of my car (and my motorcycle) when things like sheep/pedestrians/other cyclist have caused an emergency stop. Drafting cars is dangerous at the best of times doing it on a narrow rural road is suicidal, but some cyclists seem to think it's their right regardless of their personal safety.
I haven't lived in the UK for almost half a century, and I have a question. Do these rental bikes have 3rd party insurance. Here where I live most people have a private 3rd party insurance that also covers the bicycle. A work mate of mine caused an accident while riding his bike. Having no insurance he was forced to sell his house to cover the damages claim.
SADLY THIS CAN BE SAID FOR ANY VEHICLE BUT WE ALL KNOW WHAT'S RIGHT AND WRONG AND EBIKES ARE NO DIFFERENT!!
The riding can be questionable but (in London) the parking is often far worse IMO
From an economics standpoint, if you live near mass transit, it should be cheaper than an E-bike (or E-scooter), although e-bikes may save you time. Where E-bikes shine is when you do not live near mass transit or for very short trips. In both cases, it save you time, either by not needing to walk to and from the transitstop for the former or by not waiting for the train/bus for the latter. And of course, time can be considered money.
I used the edinburgh bikes every single day, the scheme collapsed and we have had nothing to replace it. Really annoying.
Oh no, went through a red light! If they did pause the cost when stopped it might make the companies MORE money as people might be more inclined to use it. Either way the price is simply too high, even for London. You can't fine people for bikes having fallen over, most of the time it was others who pushed it over. £20 m is not a high price to pay for infrastructure, it is a fraction of putting in something like a roundabout for cars.
And yes , mentioning infrastructure, they need to have adequate bike racks , they want people on bikes , and want them left not laying all over the place …..where are all the bike racks ?
Charging by journey distance rather than journey time seems a really simple fix
just got an e bike and my local council has banned them on all the roads round the city centre .My main reason for buying it was to go to the city centre .
A non-throttle one? Which council has banned legal e-bikes?
@@martinbyrne5626 Coventry City Council
It’s an easy fix;
The government needs to roll out its own network. Make all hire free of charge and all users need a “bike hire license” (you could even introduce a bike test/course) to use, however - any infringements including leaving the bike in a hazardous or unsightly way incur large fines similar to what any motorist might expect.
This way you could even program into the bike’s software red light jumping, speeding through pedestrian zones ect…. Those idiots who are the dangerous and discourteous ones would end up paying for the scheme and the rest of us get free bike usage! Win win 👍🏾
Yes it has. More and more people are getting on 2 wheels but with power, and these are people that have very little knowledge of using the roads or experience of the rules.
At least under your own power your fitness determines how fast and how long you go for, with battery power and with many ignoring the power limits ebikes are over powered (many not wearing appropriate protective gear).
That being said with rental bikes the speed is limited and you can't get around that, but for people who own their own bikes or who have converted a pushbike, there is nothing to stop them.
There is a call to allow bicycles to right to safely pass red lights, in some cases it would make good sense as car drivers and others still get annoyed at waiting behind bikes as they pull away from traffic lights.
I have seen these rental bikes in Glasgow City Centre. I have never seen anyone riding them though.
I didn't know you had to pay by credit/debit card. I thought users put coins into a meter, say £3.00 for 1 hour. I can't believe I was so naive! 😣
Absolutely loads of Lime bikes are effectively stolen by bypassing the wheel lock and riding off then dumping at the end. No account to trace, no fines for bad parking, no time pressure but stopping can make the wheel lock engage again so they won’t want to stop for anything. Lime don’t seem to care, they’d rather keep chucking more bikes on the streets than fix the ones out there.
Excellent insight
Quite a bit more than buying a local bus ticket, and almost as much as a taxi to get home sometimes…
People are still claiming that on a bike, you can't injure others. So they disrespect all laws because they say they aren't dangerous and if someone crashes it couldn't be their fault. Just saw that in a German comment section on here...
I only started riding rental e-bikes about 8 months ago.
When I started, I stopped at every traffic light and rode exactly how you are supposed to on the road.
Then in quickly learnt that:
a) Nobody else is doing the same
b) I am being penalised by Lime/Forest for cycling safely
c) Nobody gives a shit.
Shame to say, I started behaving in a similar manor.
I am soon to buy an e-bike and when it doesn't cost me a lot of money, I will stop when I'm supposed to again.
I think as well, while motorists need to learn that cyclists have an equal right to the road as them, many cyclists also need to learn that they need to follow the law when on the road.
Bikes should be required to treat red traffic lights as stop signs (excluding bike specific stop lights) and stop signs as yield/give way signs.
But ... they are required so to do, in the UK anyway.
why not charge by distance travled instead of time?
…because then you could keep the bike all day. E.g. train into the city, grab a bike at the station, cycle to work, take it into your office building, then cycle back to the station at the end of the day, thus eliminating the possibility of others’ use of that bike for the whole working day. Or, just cycle to a meeting, hold onto it for a few hours, before cycling back.
Poor unintuitive cycling infrastructure has. just cycled in Amsterdam, the infrastructure creates a system where everyone moves in predictable ways.
6:50 Usuali person parking bike does a good job, but you need to remember that bike after parking is not bolted to the ground. And many people who dislike rentals bikes and scooters will knock them over for fun.
Cannot those who leave these bikes not in approved parking spots be fined for littering or fly tipping?
I've been run over by a cyclist on the pavement and nearly hit on two occasions by electric bikes/scooters. Time to crack down by the Police so that pedestrians can walk safely.
As a cyclist I totally agree.
If they just made it 30p per minute when your actually going forward that would solve this issue tbh.
Leeds are breaking these clunkers out, cost thousands for street hardware and the bikes, so the user gets to pay, £1 unlock, 16p a minute. Terrible. People who have never ridden a bike in decades will hire these instead of a taxi, after they have had a couple of beers in the pub and want to go on to a city center pub. I want to be free to ride my scooter like I did my motorbike and Land Rover, safely and with skill. The pricing on these bikes is really shocking, 16p a minute, 20 min ride is £3.20 which equates to getting halfway into town yet 2 or 3 splitting a taxi pay less each than a bike each without any hassle or level of alcohol factoring.
In terms of the £1 unlock and 29p per minute ride, wouldn’t it then make sense to buy a Lime ride pass?
Say you only need to ride for about 5 or 10 mins to a station and then get another lime bike from there. If you get the pass It’ll cost about £3.99 for 30mins with free unlock and you can keep the remaining minutes for about 3 or 4 days. I’ve used this method and while it does take a sting out of my bank account, I wont have to worry about paying every minute even if I stop at a red light.
I’ll leave the Ride Pass Prices on here for anyone who wants to read and compare
30 min Ride - £3.99
60 min Ride - £6.99
200 min (3.33 hrs) Ride - £18.99
400 min (6.67 hrs) Ride - £36.99
Sidenote, you can get a discount if you wear a cycling helmet on the app (it’s about 20% off I think).
Also, it is a piss take having to see bikes just left on the floor instead of being propped up and put back in it’s place.
I find rental bikes stupid, they pollute pedestrian paths and those with specific docks cause inconvenience. Here, we have two wheeler taxis (moped taxis) that are cheaper and more convenient (not to mention a professional driver is driving you)than renting a bicycle. Though all of them still run on gasoline.
Based on the cost of your estimated journey home, how many journeys would you have done to match the cost of your favourite e-bike?
For me, when I used public transport to get to and from work, it was $9.20 return trip per day. E-scooter was $1000. So, just over 100 working days, plus the scooter can be used for other trips, not just work.
Given the years spent trialling these ebike schemes I’m surprised they haven’t tested alternative ways of pricing the rentals if it is causing poor rider behaviour.
theyre considered motorized vehicles so they cant be ridden on sidewalks/bike paths. write tickets until they stop
I think it's also because it's not their bike so there is not as much respect for the property. Its not just the users it's a-holes moving them on purpose. Could make it so you have to tether them securely before they log off or it continues to charge you. I have to dodge them and e scooters all the time.
How do the bikes get placed out of place?
Who parks their rental bike on its side?
I believe it’s done deliberately by those people who want them off the streets, do what I do, stop stand them up properly!
Does nt matter how much it costs it’s still against the law to jump red lights
It's because they are minute by minute charged that the rider takes more and more chances than they would ordinarily
The bad electric bikers are a result of a mindset that translates to cars (and life?). I honestly don't think much can be done except arrest and/or heavy fines.
Question: does UK/EU law allow people to ride an e-bike without helmet? How does the Ebike Rental business solve the helmet situation? Thanks.
Yes, there's no requirement to wear a helmet at all.
There is no obligation to wear a helmet on a limited speed e-bike anywhere in the UK or the EU. They are treated the same as a human powered bikes. These hire bikes are limited to 15.5 mph. Anything over that requires helmet, registration and license...
@@zivkovicable Hi, are these hire bikes actually speed limited to 15.5 or is the motor assist limited to this and if you pedal harder or downhill you can go faster on them?
@@chrislumb963 like any bike gravity will take you down hill if you freewheel, but they won’t actually exceed the speed limit by pedalling faster unlike standard e-bikes .Most barely make it to 15…They are pretty heavy..
correction, those bikes were the last thing that Ken Livingstone sorted prior to his departure, Bozo had very little to do with the implementation, just took all the glory as always!!
Yes, they do. Case closed.
Why dont they just make it so that they only charge the rider when the bike is in motion... 🤷♂️ seems like an easy fix this one.
I'd say people probably are more reckless as it isnt their bike so they dont care if they ruin it
Reckless humans create reckless riding.
Rental bikers can definitely be reckless, but I think the vast majority of incorrectly parked bikes and scooters are from people who actively want to sabotage and give rental micromobility a bad name. Just the other day I saw someone push a fallen over e-scooter out into the middle of the bikelane, and of course, just a minute down the same lane I found another one.
I'd never use one. Middle clarrrrrrrs prices.
They say the fastest car you'll ever drive is a hire car...
Am seeing a huge sudden increase in Swapfiets monthly hire e-bikes; probably makes financial sense for people not to spend a huge sum in one go, and they would take care of the bikes as well as avoiding the red light running behaviour. The only loser here might be the Electroheads :()
0.26/minute? Jesus I'll just take an uber.
No it has not - its living in a world were machines are loved and people are hated or fighting 4 a place to fit.
Have electric rental bikes created reckless riding? No.
This issue is hugely overshadowed by the problem of delivery riders on L1 electric mopeds who are paid by the gig economy where time and performance creates an arms race.
I recently was in a transport meeting with a national infrastructure provider who were considering banning all eBikes from premises based on their misunderstanding of what an eBike actually is.
When poor quality equipment wrongly dubbed eBikes are burning houses down all over the news and people in balaclavas are ripping though pedestrianised areas faster than you can legally drive on the adjacent road with no test, registration, license or insurance there are bigger fish to fry than rental bike rider behaviour.
Yes. causing Accident’s. Hurting Pedestrians
You guys boycotting Tesla? No model 3 refresh review. That’s really ignoring the elephant in the room
20 million for the charging stations it nothing. Did u mean billion? 10,000 stations
Total rip off £ 15 plus a hour ......😢 £15 for 24 hours total rip off ..
At 250w? Pffft.
6:43 Can't Park Their Mate!
Make a video about tenways cgo009
Hi there. I'm a fat lazy baby boomer weighing in at over 400 pounds. I can't remember the last time I rode a push bike but I do fancy one of those e-bikes and have plenty of cash to throw at one. What would you recommend?
Rental bikes and scooters, they want us to own nothing and be happy
I bought a bike for £5
Cyclists are a nuisance on british roads - I cycle every day to keep fit and use offroad or pavements wherever I can. Best thing I ever got for my bike was a big wing mirror so I can see behind me & pull over to let lorries pass etc. e-bikes just takes the menace to a higher level - so they can be even more inconsiderate and intolerant.
micro mobility is the future, anyone who does not recognize that is delusional
The drug dealers using these bikes will probably just add the cost of the rental on top of the drugs they are dealing. 😂