So glad someone made a straight, no-nonsense comparison of these cards! I only ever owned a ViBRA 16X myself so finally getting to hear what I was missing out on is nice heh.
I don't see SoundBlaster Pros very much on eBay, though one of the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0s I have was bought off eBay (got this as payment for some repair work I did for a friend). They don't show up on eBay very much, especially the original CT1330A SoundBlaster Pro with dual OPL2 instead of OPL3. I haven't seen a single one of those SoundBlaster Pros on eBay, but SoundBlaster Pro 2.0s (these are model number CT1600) do show up every now and then. Not often, but they do show up.
Wow! Thanks for making this kind of video. I remember the super duper excitement from installing a Yamaha (forget the series) sound card in my 486 PC. Finally my games got music!! Later on i found some AWE32 cards, just like yours in flea market (for a surprising cheap price!!) and manage to pair it with my Pentium 4 PC. Experimenting with some midi sound bank (sound font?) to produce the most sweet music.. Man, those were the days.. now you take sound card for granted in each new motherboards
Fantastic! - I love those cards! - Been using them since 1990 up until today, virtually ALL models!! - I currently have a small collection myself. Started composing music with MIDI on an AWE32 CT3980.
Because of LGR and this video I just picked up the Sound Blaster Vibra 16 ISA, and cant wait to try testing the differences between my other sound cards. I love this shit!
@@OPL3music these videos are extremely helpful for me!!!! I have what was originally a Windows ME home pc, but i "downgraded" or as i would say "upgraded" to windows 95. I am doing as much research as i can to try to find a sound card i can afford, but that also sounds good and is compatible with windows 95. The exact card i want is the creative 2230, so to see what you said about it really gives me a good feeling. The pc currently has a ct5801, but nowwhere can i get drivers for it. And worst part is it only has drivers on the hp windows me recovery disc, and because i installed windows 95, i can't install its drivers because the recovery disk is made to only work on an hp pavilion with ME, but i have 95. I wish i could've got drivers though, because if i did, then for people like you who want to hear different sound cards could've had a chance to hear it. I would've tested it with Doom. I did have a chance at getting it to work though. It was when the pc still had the original Windows ME. I could've loaded some MIDI's and maybe got sound. Idk, but i think it might've not worked. I swear i remember trying doom and heard no sound. But weird thing was i could hear system sounds like window opening/closing, startup sound, etc. But no MIDI. If that card did have midi, though, i would've loved to hear it. That would've been interesting. Anyways, the hardware (ethernet and dial up cards, floppy drive, and sound card and maybe even gpu all do not seem to work properly with windows 95. It doesn't have any generic drivers for them. So i am starting by replacing priority parts, in this case the sound card. Right now i can play wolfenstein, doom, and doom 2, but don't have any sound. And i also want to be able to get duke 3d, but that game won't install unless i select a sound card. Thank you for this video, i now am definitely getting the sound blaster 16 ct2230.
@@nascarsimracing1 I can't speak for Windows 95, but Windows 98 comes with drivers for the Sound Blaster 16 on the disc. No need to go looking if you use 98!
0:55 very similar to a model 1 genesis/mega drive, except without the noise. 2:40 it sounds like it changes the operator levels on the bass instrument, which could cause a high pitched sharp noise.
Interesting point. Operator levels on the bass instrument could very easily be different, with the card being CQM and all. I wonder why that never occurred to me.
i realized i never transcribed this videos's annotations- but i'll edit them in tomorrow, it seems it didn't post my finished comment :( i'm not spam, youtube! i have access to the original annotations via the Annotations Restored extension- go get it if you don't have it! my own descriptive comments of where the annotations are/what parts of the cards they reference will be in [square brackets]! 00:08 - [A bunch of "Hi!" annotations pop up around the text!] *Sound Blaster AWE32 CT3980* 00:14 - "Originally my favorite OPL3 card. The highs are crystal clear. This video is VERY out of date, though, and I have found many better cards." 00:24 - "I've since moved on to a Sound Blaster 16 CT2290 and a CT2230. Still, I'm leaving this old video up." 00:33 - "This card does not have a standalone OPL3 chip - it is embedded into the CT1747 chip here." [The smaller rectangular chip near the bottom center, to the left of a larger square chip] 00:40 - "These are all pictures of my sound cards - no google image ripoffs. What you see is what you hear. " *Sound Blaster 16 CT2830* 00:51 - "This is the newest addition to my Sound Blaster collection." 00:58 - "Two things should be obvious right away... First, there is a **massive** bass response (specifically, 60 Hz and under)" 01:08 - "Second, there is a **complete** lack of line noise. The recording is almost 100% pure. There is so much amplification on this card that I can crank it up and turn down the recording computer to a fraction of where it normally is." 01:20 - "And for all that...it **almost** has the same crystal clarity that the AWE32 does." 01:29 - "The OPL3 chip is right here, by the way." [In the center of the bottom right half of the card, above the MADE IN SINGAPORE text. It's a small rectangular black chip] 01:35 - "Pretty. :D" *Sound Blaster Vibra 16s CT2890* 01:42 - "The first thing you should hear on this card is the line noise. There's a ton of it." 01:51 - "I'll be honest - I may have forgotten to turn the computer's volume all the way up before recording. However, this is still an ungodly amount of noise." 01:58 - "The bass response isn't all that great..." 02:04 - "Oh yeah, the OPL3 chip is right here." [Similar placement to the previous card's chip, just with an even smaller chip between it and the MADE IN SINGAPORE text] 02:11 - "The audible distortion on the highs here is not a compression artifact...for some reason this card distorts the highs a tiny bit." 02:25 - "At least the melody is untainted, though. :)" *Sound Blaster Vibra 16XV CT4170* 02:32 - "This line noise is *TERRIBLE*. I think there may be something wrong with this card. >.>" 02:39 - "This card does not have an OPL3 chip. It's using something called CQM to imitate one...but it sounds pretty bad." 02:47 - "If you listen closely, some of the notes are drifting out of tune a little." 02:53 - "I think my ears just started to bleed a bit...the chirpy sound has been transformed into a piercing shriek." 03:02 - "Okay my ears are screaming in agony now. The only thing this card has going for it is a nice bass response." 03:15 - "At least the melody part here wasn't murdered with the rest of the song. XD" *Sound Blaster 16 CT2830* 03:48 - "I did such a lolAwesome job on the jumpers before taking the picture...they're TOTALLY not royally screwed up."
Using with sequencer the FM hardware synthesizer or using the Add hardware synthesizer at 4-operators mode ( it requires software that can use 4 operators instead of 2 operators ) with the SPDIF output ( Awe64 Gold ) to record to new high-quality sound cards or from them to the magnetic tape , can be achieved the studios quality sound
Unfortunately, the AWE32 card sounded awful and tinny no matter what was tried, between me and two other people. It was clearly designed with the wavetable synth in mind (Good OPL3 sound required an amplifier with good filtering, and the wavetable synth did not). Plus, the SPDIF output is connected before the amplifier - so you get pure OPL3 sound with no filter, resulting in a tinny/empty sound. I was very disappointed in that card, I had very high hopes for it. It's just a bad design for OPL3, which makes sense, since live digital synthesis was on the way out. Honestly, I don't think I've even used that card once since the making of this video, that's how much of a disappointment it was.
@@OPL3music The tinny/empty sounds are not due to the opl3 hardware, but to the software that using only 2 oscillators per track instead of 4 oscillators per track, which is a hardware option of OPL3 . AWE32 supposedly had 16-bit SPDIF, but AWE64 Gold had 20-bit SPDIF ( supposedly even 24-bit if synced in 4 seconds to SPDIF recever ) I had trouble to installing software to create sounds with 4 oscillators per track, which is a nicer dense sound that can be used in today's productions. Another way to get a dense sound is to insert MIDI SysEx for Yamaha OPL3 into the midi file to use a set sound with 4 oscillators and envelopes per trak
Oh? Why not? If you're itching to get into it, now is the time, before it gets expensive. Right now, you can pick up a nice ISA sound blaster for ~$20 on Ebay. It'll need capacitors replaced, but that's a given with all of them. They're being destroyed at a phenomenal rate and the demand is rising, so the price will be skyrocketing within ~5-10 years!
This video has me highly considering the Vibra 16s card for the DOS Pentium MMX machine that I will be building on a budget, the nicer cards are just so much more expensive. Thanks for doing the demo comparison!
Ah, the wonderful jumpers. I had little to no idea how to do mine, since it came with them in weird places. I couldn't find any documentation on what did what, so I tried the elimination route to see how few jumpers it took to get it working. Using an auto discovery opl3 player is a nice feature into seeing what the jumpers did.
interresting I will keep these numbers in mind. I too am more and more on the lookout for ISA-era sound cards. For me, the SB16CT2830 was my first actual soundcard I bought back in the 1990's... The dual opl2 card is actually a gift from fellow youtuber eep386 from quite some time ago... I guess a feel pressure to put it to good use now! but I have now started a simple track and dual opl2sounds very... distinctive!
loved your video and you are right. The difference in games is also massive. For old DOS games you want to go with a SB16. I own a SB16, a Awe32 ct3600 and Awe64 gold. For games that provide AWE support on their setup.. then awe is great. BUT If setup provides soundblaster only....better get a SB16 because the sound on an AWE will be bad. Games like wolf3d , Commande keen, have better sound on a SB16, not on an AWE. Awe32 also has hanging note bug...that sucks.
My personal favorite Sound Blaster is actually the CT2290 now, since I favor a CT1747 chip over a YMF262. A Sound Blaster CT2770 is also a really good bet. I have not heard any hanging notes on any of them, although there are other minor MIDI issues but I don't think the card is at fault. The worst I've heard is a portamento going the wrong direction...That was fun. XD
Thanks, really helpful video. I rescued a Gateway G6-333c from e-waste at my work with the intention of putting an SB16 in it and using it for Adlib Tracker II. Based on this comparison I decided to go for the CT2830 and got one off eBay, hoping it all works out well.
I hope so too! I've moved on from these cards and I really need to do another comparison video showcasing them. I also highly recommend a SB 16 CT2230 card.
Thanks for the tip, if I'm not absolutely thrilled with the CT2830 then I might pick up a CT2230 to see if I like it better. What are some of the advantages the CT2230 has?
The CT2230 is a plug and play card, so it's a bit easier to configure. The CT2830 doesn't have a proper sound until you set it up correctly, which involves setting jumpers on the card. It's not a huge problem, although a bit annoying if you don't understand it (Which at first, I did not). The sound difference with a CT1747 OPL3 chip is subtle. In my opinion, having compared it side by side, it sounds more like an AdLib/OPL2 card. Slightly more chirpy highs, and a little more emphasis on the bass. Bottom line, though, what makes any sound blaster sound good is the presence of two VRMs, a TEA2025b amplifier chip, and many capacitors surrounding said amplifier. Any SB16 model configured that way should sound good.
Well damn, I got the CT2830 and it doesn't even fit in this old Gateway PC's case. I could get it to fit by mangling part of the chassis, maybe. Are all the real SB16s this huge, or just some of them?
Sigh. Gateway. And HP. They never cease to amaze. Most of the good sounding cards are that size, yes. If you need a smaller one, you can snag a CT2770 or a CT1740. Both of them use two VRMs and a TEA2025b amplifier chip. The difference is that the CT2770 has a CT1747 OPL3 chip, and the CT1740 has a real YMF262 OPL3 chip.
Ah, yes, the voice chip thingy. I don't know much about it, but yes, I think it is on there. If I am not mistaken, it should be the chip near the top center (Just above the CT1747 OPL chip) that says "CT1748-SBP". There's also two pins on the card that look like they're meant for a jumper, but they're used for SPDIF output. Coolio, no?
CT2830!!!! that's the Sb16 version I have also... glad to see the FM sound is juicy on it. I have not done much with that feature opl3, as I usually do tracks with digital sound samples. I am however migrating to FM, trying to do a song taking advantage of a dual opl2 sound blaster pro1 as of late (if I only had more time for play).... I agree SB16CT2830 may sound best...but I tend to view these as singing the same song with "different" instruments.
Aww thanks. Whatever you do, just don't throw them away, even if they're broken. Some people take the chips off and repurpose them. In ten years these things are going to be scarce.
Never heard of Advance Logic. o.0 Might have to look it up. I do have an ESS AudioDrive ES1869F, a Yamaha YMF724, a Crystal Audio CS4236B, and a bunch of Crystal Audio CS4280 cards. Whenever I get access to the internals of that computer again I'll probably make another video! At the moment, though, I'm having such a blast with Adlib Tracker...
Once I get my P1 rebuilt I'll have ~10 different sound cards. LOTS more videos to come. :) Admittedly, I'm not a fanboy of the old sound cards, however, I *DO* prefer a sound card that actually processes the sound, not one that pushes it off on the CPU like all modern cards. But the big kicker is that I *REALLY* love FM synthesis. It's a shame modern cards don't have it, 'cause It's amazing! I wish they had kept some soft of software emulated thing in place of it, CQM even...
You prolly know this by now but not everything modern is useless, pro 'Audio Interfaces' have full DSP and routing capabilities, 2 of my MOTU units (teh ones form round when this was made lmao) can do full near 0 latency compression, EQ, reverb, delay and 8 bus mixing etc in the DSP. I'm a lil jelly of the sounds of ur collection tho lol.
@@mycosys Oh, for sure. As far as instruments go, people can make as many software synthesizers as they like, but I don't like a single one of them. I miss having hardware generated audio. For recording, however, modern cards are most certainly unrivaled.
I still like that old sound and play MIDI sequences in DOSBox, using OPL-3 emulation. Thanks for this, I had a SB16 and Vibra 16, not sure now which Vibra 16, it was OEM. Cheers!
These are all superb. I still have my awe 64. When I would play Star Trek next generation theme (MIDI at that time) it was almost as spectacular as the being at the cinema itself.
+The Dollar Guy Hang on to that card. I have personally never experienced an AWE64 or GUS, although I have a GUS and I just need to get it working. But I have heard recordings, and yeah, they sound awesome.
I always found the "FM" sound a bit flat or plain kind of sounding in a way. However, if you give it a little bit of reverb and maybe som chorus it really opens up. Much like a DX7 which is based on the same technology.
No, this channel has always been named such. I'm just a random die-hard FM fan that stumbled across one of his videos. Said video told me what hardware I needed to get and he's been supplying me with some additional goodies and tips ever since. Yeah, FM is just too unappreciated. I hope that'll change someday. I'm totally, utterly, absolutely obsessed with it.....I actually don't listen to much of anything that didn't go through an OPL3, I just love it that much!
Did a quick image search, and I didn't see a YMF262 chip on the 2910. It seems to be hit or miss, depending on the card. Personally I wouldn't get one without a CT1747 or YMF262 chip, and they seem to be a little pricier.
A "vibra" card from Soundblaster means a model that is only available through an OEM brand like Dell or Gateway. IIRC, it was Dell that was more into Soundblaster while Gateway used alternate brands like Orchid. It is supposed to denote that the features are more limited compared to the retail version. One of the weirdest things ever was the Soundblaster live through Gateway that had a digital PCM output for the front speakers (lime green). The speakers were Boston Acoustics multimedia.
I really, REALLY need to upload another one of these. I have found two, possibly three, other SB16's that sound much much better. CT2290, CT2770, and possibly CT2230. I do love the sound of the AWE32 - CT1747 sounds better than a YMF262 in my opinion. But at the time of this video, the bass on the SB16 sold me. The SB16's I named above have the same bass response as the one in this video, but they have a CT1747 chip. My recent town.mid upload uses a CT2290, if you'd like to hear it.
Glad to see someone has an affinity for this kind of music; it used to bug me back in the day when my Amigafile friends would mock me and my SB16 because it wasn't using digital samples like all of their games/demos did.
Hmm. I was going to try Adlib Tracker on the XV card for lulz in the next few days (using a headset), so thanks for the warning. It won't stop me, but now I know what to expect.
I have the following Soundblaster PRO 2 ISA Soundblaster AWE32 4MB Soundblaster 16 ISA Soundblaster Vibra 16S ISA Soundblaster Vibra 16XV ISA Soundblaster AWE64 GOLD Soundblaster 8Bit ISA Soundblaster 16FM Soundblaster 16 ISA REV2 and a Roland MT-32 and SC-88 System 1 Duel Pentium III 800MHZ 512MB SDRAM Geforce 4 TI 4800 + 2x Voodoo 2 12MB Soundblaster AWE64 + Roland SC-88 Windows 98SE Custom SP3 + Windows 2000 SP4R2 Asus P2B-DS Motherboard I find it one of my best classic gaming rigs
god i miss the sound of my Sound Blaster Vibra16XV. The sound of it was absolutely amazing. Games like "Ken's Labyrinth", "Lemmings" or "The Games - Winter Challenge" sounded flawless with that card. This really is when Adlib Sound on Soundblaster cards peaked :)
@@KRAFTWERK2K6 Vibra 16 doesnt even sound like OPL3, but its far better than Ensoniq SB16 emulation implemented on later developments like Soundblaster Live or Audigy 2. The only thing i regret from my SB Vibra 16 its it can´t upgrade with midi Soundfonts (I use WavEffects version).
@@xXFlameHaze92Xx Yeah that's a downside for sure. If you really wanna use soundfonts and even expand on the Wavetable ROM, then you need something else. Personally i always loved the Soundblaster 4.1 a lot more than the Live. The wavetables are very different on both. And about the Audigy…… i only have an Audigy 2 ZS for PCMCIA cardbus. And i only used it for its DAC. Never really used it for MIDI Soundfonts. At one point i kept using Tmidity for that.
Gonna go ahead and repurchase a PC desktop windows 95 with Soundblaster 16 it should have music on the all the 1990's DOS games as well thanks for this great peice of info.
Ohhhh, you're looking for ESFM? I do have two ESS Audiodrives with FM on them. I could do that....in fact, I think I will.....however, I can't record anything until I get a few more parts in for my recording computer.
Judging by a quick Google image search, the Sound Blaster PCI 128 doesn't have an OPL3 chip, which means it's using some form of CQM. CQM has a lot of odd variants (like the CT4170 featured in this video), but I honestly haven't heard one I *TRULY* like yet. The real deal is much, much better.
I haven't noticed any issues with it on any of the MIDIs I've played. I'm not 100% sure I'm getting you the DSP info, but from a quick google search and reading the chips, I see one marked "CT1731 v413" (I think it's supposed to be 4.13).
I have a Sound Blaster 16 in a Pentium 133mhz machine. And a Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold in a Pentium Pro 200mhz machine. Haven't tried the midi with the awe64 card yet.
My favorite OPL implementations were the integrated YMF289B on the Yamaha DS-XG YMF744/724 series cards(very good sound quality compared to old ISA cards and works on 64-bit Linux if your motherboard has a hardware PCI bus) and the Yamaha-licensed CT1747 IC on older AWE models, which was run through the EMU-8000 chip and could have AWE reverb and chorus applied to it, which brightened up some OPL tracks. The orginal YMF262 on my CT1750 sounds decent too, although this card has awful line noise typical of any really old Creative ISA card. I wonder how the OPL3LPT sounds?
I did it with a CT3780 AWE32. You'll need to use the AWEUTIL.COM utility with the /S, /R and /C switches. The program doesn't act as a TSR when used this way and won't interfere with any programs. It should work on your CT3980. This applies the EMU8000 post processing effects to the OPL3 output. Should work on CT2760, CT3900, CT3980, CT3780, and CT3910. Hardware-wise, the reason this works is that the CT1747 IC is wired to channels 31 and 32 of the EMU8000 chip and can have its effects applied to it. Here's an old archived thread from a forum detailing what an AWE32 with these model numbers can do with the CT1747 chip, where user Cloudschatze, who knows a whole lot about old sound hardware, makes some recordings and observations: web.archive.org/web/20130323155402/queststudios.com/smf/index.php?topic=2416.0 Those OPL3 recording links still work, there's a Tyrian recording with reverb applied to it.
I always liked my awe32 (is like yours) better that any sound card I used after that one. Now I know I'm not crazy! props for your vid. Mine is still stored somewhere. I sometimes think of getting an old pc and install it to see if still works...And connect the MS Force Feedback Joystick that works with that :D. I read it has a chip where some kind of program could be stored and run for audio processing? but that wasn't exploited, a shame. dr.sbaitso and talking parrot ftw.
SB16 rocks. I need to upload another comparison with my new favorite cards. I have about 15 different FM variants now. Two of them stand head and shoulders above the rest, and there's plenty of honorable mentions as well.
The CT2830 was my first *REAL* SB16....I liked it for the bass response. At the time of this video, these four Sound Blasters were all I had. However, I started trying a lot of variants and different cards....and I found two incredible ones - the CT2290 and CT2230. If you thought the 1830 has bass.....well, the 2290 has boomin', blastin' bass. CT2230 sounds about the same, but I haven't played with it much. And whoa, you got your hands on one of the dual OPL2 cards? That's a rare find!
my Vibra16XV has the same line noise problem, do not use headphones with that card unless you like getting nasty shocks from the output. this issue is probably a grounding one that causes all the noise that i suspect may be part of the design of the card.
No, actually. It's in an FM format. The filetype is ".d00". I added a link to the Vibrants website in the description. If you don't have the actual hardware to play this on, you can use an emulator, but it sounds really bad by comparison. If there's something you really want to hear, plenty of us OPL3ers on youtube have an open offer to record a track or two on request. ;)
I may try comparing the sound of my AWE32 to a thinkpad I have with OPL2 emulation, maybe even my SBLive (although that one's broken, no idea what's wrong).
I know that you uploaded this video a long time ago, but I listened to it and I want that Pop Syndrome sequence! How did you get it? I tried to access to the vibrants page but it don't respond. So, can you help me to get it? By the way, I love this video, and it showed me what kind of crappy sound card I just bought (the vibra XV, but I'm not disappointed at all). I wonder if someday I'll can get a AWE32... Thanks for all! (I'm Spanish, so forgive me if I made any mistake writing!)
Speaking of OPL3-alikes, have you ever tried a Sounblaster PCI 128? We had one of those 3 computers ago. Definitely sounded "off" somehow. I was young back then so I wouldn't really know, I just know DOSBox sounds different to the SB PCI 128 and I'm assuming DOSBox is more accurate.
I've got an AWE64 gold. It's great for sample based midis, it sounds amazing, but it's also pretty good with OPL3 music. It's kind of like an AWE32, but more watered down, and very little noise. It's not bad, but I'd really like a SB16.
The AWE32 and Vibra16S sound SO heavily high-pass filtered compared to the SoundBlaster 16 CT2830 and the SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects. But GOD, the CQM in the CT4170 sounds like crap. To think the first SoundBlaster I used in a DOS PC build was an AWE64 CT4500 which no longer works. I first thought that was true OPL3! You should do another comparison with the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0. I like heavily filtered FM Synthesis, and let me tell you, the low-pass filtering is quite heavy on this thing.
There are some PCI Yamaha cards (YMF724), and they have an OPL3 component, and I believe they even have drivers up to Windows XP. However, they do not play nice with other sound cards installed, so it has to be the only card in your system (Which isn't a problem for most people anyway).
There are different models for every product name. Sometimes even the CT-number isn't exact enough so that is comes down to the revision number in those cases.
the last song's instrumentation sounds like the missing link between Soundblaster FM known throughout the world and Japan's PC Engine/98 games, curiously although they are FM synthesis compositions... would be nice to hear some non-Touhou PC98 games music played on Soundblaster
Myself and someone else both went at that card...... The final determination was that the OPL3 output on it is just not a good design. I have found cards I like much better since this video, too. That said - I still have the card!
As far as I can remember, this particular AWE32 card's primary purpose is the AWE32 component. It's been nearly a decade since I've used it, but if I recall correctly, you have to specifically switch it to OPL mode in the driver for it to work. Hopefully that answers your question.
The sound blaster 16 sounds much better here than the awe32. However, I'm pretty sure I had an awe32 and my friends had the sound blaster 16. They got their computers around 1993 and mine in 1995 on a 133mhz. I thought mine sounded better because the electric guitar in Doom sounded like a real electric guitar. I think I'm remembering the models correctly. Maybe I had the sound blaster 16. I'm not sure.
No, you remember correctly. You will have played Doom set to use AWE32 for music which results in hearing wavetable music instead of synthesized music. Your friends were stuck with Adlib/OPL music. Only a very expensive General Midi wavetable from Roland or Yamaha would've given you even better music.
You should redo this video of you have a new favorite and different cards. You should also throw in some SB16 clones if you have any, that would make an awesome video.
Yeah, I desperately need to do an update video. o.0 I have a 5-day break from my suicidal job coming up in a week or two - I have LOTS of new cards to document. I'll see if I can get something done then. I actually got my hands on an original Adlib with an OPL2 chip, too!
I am revisiting this sweet video in 2020 as I NOW have a SB32 with the ram slots CT3600. I also have plenty of actual Yamaha portasound keyboards with FM chip sounds in them. My question now as it was back when I heard this video, is Are there any programs to directly edit and save FM sound presets like on the Keyboards? In other words, a program in DOS or Linux or Windows that directly tweaks the synth chip and you can save your tweaks as a file to be recalled? I am a musician so gaming is NOT my thing, MIDI music composing is.
There are programs for patch editing, although I do not know how to use them or even what they are called. Any time I am making music with my SB16, I go straight to Adlib Tracker. Last I checked, it was still in active development, and has quite a few useful features.
@@OPL3music Yeah I forgot the name of the one I was using way back in 2000. It was in DOS but it saved the output to wav so I had samples to play with afterwards. Now funny you mention adlibtracker! I am on Linux and I have been installing alot of music apps and I did install some trackers last night. I have no clue how to use them lol! But then again, I have alot of free trackers to choose from and learn so, I will learn. One of them looks like a Amiga OS GUI tracker but in Linux. Milkytracker?
@@OPL3music Hmm I do not know right now. I have to check after work. Not Scream tracker though. I am a horror movie buff and would remember THAT name lol!
@@pianokeyjoe Might have been fast tracker too..... A Google search says it apparently it uses samples? That's news to me, though, I thought it was FM only. Never used it.
Good comparison but unfortunate for my childhood OPL chips sound like circular saws and whoopie cushions to me. I should have gotten an Amiga :). There are good Yamaha chips too, and even YM2612 (Sega Genesis) sounds better to me despite sample rate etc. Competing standards probably hindered quality on DOS games (and despite being a standard, General MIDI was just another thing to account for when it first came out). The clean reproduction of simple FM brings out its shortcomings--OPL1 had more charm at least. Amiga equivalents of the same games were better by far (vs DOS or NES). I'm researching to make retro synth music, so I wandered here.
The SB16 emulation from DOSBox really makes me angry, it has a really harsh tone to it and doesn't sound at all what it's meant to be. I'd like to make a request: Can you do the Killer Whale theme from Undersea Adventure? (Knowledge Adventure, 1994) I want to know if it sounds any different on a real SB16. May I also ask that you put an MP3 link when you do that?
i have a soundblaster vibra 16xv ct 4170 card. but when i install it into my 486 pc the video signal gets garbled and corrupted. i dont know why its happening.
Try it in another slot. If it still doesn't work, then it sounds like you might have a dead/shorted component on the sound card, and I would get it repaired before you put it back into the computer to reduce the risk of damage.
+Chris Nova777 i laughed cuz i didn't realize the card was so shitty. I posted the comment when i was experimenting with cards. Weirdly, the libretto card isn't so bad! it's loud
Excellent demonstration of OPL3 capabilities. Please, can you share the files and programs you used for testing those cards? I want to test my soundcard too. Thanks!
This music in this video was played using AdPlay, and the music was found on www.vibrants.dk/ but it seems the website is offline. I do have a copy of the music on my computer, but the hard drive is failing so I dare not start it until I have a backup ready. I do have some new comparison videos that use Adlib Tracker II, and they're a lot better than this video. If you want to compare or test cards, it's a much better place to start. th-cam.com/video/p6IITanvS6Y/w-d-xo.html
I think that bass differences between the good ones (SB16, Vibra16XV) and the bad ones (AWE32 and Vibra16S) are mostly due do dead capacitors. AWE32 sounded better 25 years ago... the other differences are due to CQM (Vibra 16C and X/XV) which does not produces 100% accurate emulation of the original (expansive and power consuming) OPL-3 Chip (Vibra16S)
In the case of this particular AWE32, the card was recapped after this, and checked out by a few people. The ultimate determination was that it was a bad design, since nothing was able to give it any significant bass response. Even adjusting the mixer didn't help. I am told that the Vibra in this video doesn't even have any filtering capacitors, hence why it sounds so tinny. You're absolutely right on CQM, it's a real disappointment most of the time.
There don't seem to be many of us interested in this stuff. Shame, really. Nice to know I'm not the only one that likes it, though. Eep386 and Raymangold22 have uploaded a goodly amount, and there's a lot of other people uploading a random tune or two. :D
hahaha yeah I saw in a comment you changed your channel name ? :P... FM needs all the love it can get, I don't get how the SID music scene is so big and the FM one is so small...
![What is Love on Sound Blaster 16 [real OPL3] Adlib tracker 2](/img/n.gif)
Sweet comparison, I really appreciate stuff like this. Thanks for posting!
+Lazy Game Reviews Aww thanks.
+Lazy Game Reviews ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy this guy!!!!
Hi! :P
the king of DOS graces us with his presence!
You both have came a long way. Thanks for the video, I am building my first 486 pc and needed this! And thanks Clint for your content!
00:00 AWE32 CT3980
00:50 SB16 CT2830
01:41 Vibra 16S CT2890
02:31 Vibra 16XV CT4170
So glad someone made a straight, no-nonsense comparison of these cards! I only ever owned a ViBRA 16X myself so finally getting to hear what I was missing out on is nice heh.
I don't see SoundBlaster Pros very much on eBay, though one of the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0s I have was bought off eBay (got this as payment for some repair work I did for a friend). They don't show up on eBay very much, especially the original CT1330A SoundBlaster Pro with dual OPL2 instead of OPL3. I haven't seen a single one of those SoundBlaster Pros on eBay, but SoundBlaster Pro 2.0s (these are model number CT1600) do show up every now and then. Not often, but they do show up.
I would love to hear full game soundtracks with the CT2830, Awesome video!
Wow! Thanks for making this kind of video. I remember the super duper excitement from installing a Yamaha (forget the series) sound card in my 486 PC. Finally my games got music!!
Later on i found some AWE32 cards, just like yours in flea market (for a surprising cheap price!!) and manage to pair it with my Pentium 4 PC. Experimenting with some midi sound bank (sound font?) to produce the most sweet music..
Man, those were the days.. now you take sound card for granted in each new motherboards
Fantastic! - I love those cards! - Been using them since 1990 up until today, virtually ALL models!! - I currently have a small collection myself. Started composing music with MIDI on an AWE32 CT3980.
Because of LGR and this video I just picked up the Sound Blaster Vibra 16 ISA, and cant wait to try testing the differences between my other sound cards. I love this shit!
+KINGBOOBUSTUBER SB16 is life!
@@OPL3music these videos are extremely helpful for me!!!! I have what was originally a Windows ME home pc, but i "downgraded" or as i would say "upgraded" to windows 95. I am doing as much research as i can to try to find a sound card i can afford, but that also sounds good and is compatible with windows 95. The exact card i want is the creative 2230, so to see what you said about it really gives me a good feeling. The pc currently has a ct5801, but nowwhere can i get drivers for it. And worst part is it only has drivers on the hp windows me recovery disc, and because i installed windows 95, i can't install its drivers because the recovery disk is made to only work on an hp pavilion with ME, but i have 95. I wish i could've got drivers though, because if i did, then for people like you who want to hear different sound cards could've had a chance to hear it. I would've tested it with Doom. I did have a chance at getting it to work though. It was when the pc still had the original Windows ME. I could've loaded some MIDI's and maybe got sound. Idk, but i think it might've not worked. I swear i remember trying doom and heard no sound. But weird thing was i could hear system sounds like window opening/closing, startup sound, etc. But no MIDI. If that card did have midi, though, i would've loved to hear it. That would've been interesting. Anyways, the hardware (ethernet and dial up cards, floppy drive, and sound card and maybe even gpu all do not seem to work properly with windows 95. It doesn't have any generic drivers for them. So i am starting by replacing priority parts, in this case the sound card. Right now i can play wolfenstein, doom, and doom 2, but don't have any sound. And i also want to be able to get duke 3d, but that game won't install unless i select a sound card. Thank you for this video, i now am definitely getting the sound blaster 16 ct2230.
@@nascarsimracing1 I can't speak for Windows 95, but Windows 98 comes with drivers for the Sound Blaster 16 on the disc. No need to go looking if you use 98!
@@OPL3music Windows 95 also includes them. Windows 98 comes with drivers for the Sound Blaster AWE32/64 as well.
I love geeking out over stuff like this, and I like how passionate you seem about these things. Great vid :)
SB16 = life
One of favourite vids on TH-cam; from any category. Thanks for your efforts.
Wow, the AWE and Vibra are really lacking in bass. And I just bought and installed a vibra....SB16 sounds pretty darn good.
Thanks a lot! I didn't know that there is so difference in Sound Blaster cards.
0:55 very similar to a model 1 genesis/mega drive, except without the noise.
2:40 it sounds like it changes the operator levels on the bass instrument, which could cause a high pitched sharp noise.
Interesting point. Operator levels on the bass instrument could very easily be different, with the card being CQM and all. I wonder why that never occurred to me.
Could also explain the BLOAH-like sound the lead has. Could be a cranked up mod operator
I got somptin somptin out of watching this vid ol right! Now I KNOW what cards to buy again to make a midi sequencer rig. Thanks!
i realized i never transcribed this videos's annotations- but i'll edit them in tomorrow, it seems it didn't post my finished comment :( i'm not spam, youtube!
i have access to the original annotations via the Annotations Restored extension- go get it if you don't have it!
my own descriptive comments of where the annotations are/what parts of the cards they reference will be in [square brackets]!
00:08 - [A bunch of "Hi!" annotations pop up around the text!]
*Sound Blaster AWE32 CT3980*
00:14 - "Originally my favorite OPL3 card. The highs are crystal clear. This video is VERY out of date, though, and I have found many better cards."
00:24 - "I've since moved on to a Sound Blaster 16 CT2290 and a CT2230. Still, I'm leaving this old video up."
00:33 - "This card does not have a standalone OPL3 chip - it is embedded into the CT1747 chip here." [The smaller rectangular chip near the bottom center, to the left of a larger square chip]
00:40 - "These are all pictures of my sound cards - no google image ripoffs. What you see is what you hear. "
*Sound Blaster 16 CT2830*
00:51 - "This is the newest addition to my Sound Blaster collection."
00:58 - "Two things should be obvious right away... First, there is a **massive** bass response (specifically, 60 Hz and under)"
01:08 - "Second, there is a **complete** lack of line noise. The recording is almost 100% pure. There is so much amplification on this card that I can crank it up and turn down the recording computer to a fraction of where it normally is."
01:20 - "And for all that...it **almost** has the same crystal clarity that the AWE32 does."
01:29 - "The OPL3 chip is right here, by the way." [In the center of the bottom right half of the card, above the MADE IN SINGAPORE text. It's a small rectangular black chip]
01:35 - "Pretty. :D"
*Sound Blaster Vibra 16s CT2890*
01:42 - "The first thing you should hear on this card is the line noise. There's a ton of it."
01:51 - "I'll be honest - I may have forgotten to turn the computer's volume all the way up before recording. However, this is still an ungodly amount of noise."
01:58 - "The bass response isn't all that great..."
02:04 - "Oh yeah, the OPL3 chip is right here." [Similar placement to the previous card's chip, just with an even smaller chip between it and the MADE IN SINGAPORE text]
02:11 - "The audible distortion on the highs here is not a compression artifact...for some reason this card distorts the highs a tiny bit."
02:25 - "At least the melody is untainted, though. :)"
*Sound Blaster Vibra 16XV CT4170*
02:32 - "This line noise is *TERRIBLE*. I think there may be something wrong with this card. >.>"
02:39 - "This card does not have an OPL3 chip. It's using something called CQM to imitate one...but it sounds pretty bad."
02:47 - "If you listen closely, some of the notes are drifting out of tune a little."
02:53 - "I think my ears just started to bleed a bit...the chirpy sound has been transformed into a piercing shriek."
03:02 - "Okay my ears are screaming in agony now. The only thing this card has going for it is a nice bass response."
03:15 - "At least the melody part here wasn't murdered with the rest of the song. XD"
*Sound Blaster 16 CT2830*
03:48 - "I did such a lolAwesome job on the jumpers before taking the picture...they're TOTALLY not royally screwed up."
Using with sequencer the FM hardware synthesizer or using the Add hardware synthesizer at 4-operators mode ( it requires software that can use 4 operators instead of 2 operators ) with the SPDIF output ( Awe64 Gold ) to record to new high-quality sound cards or from them to the magnetic tape , can be achieved the studios quality sound
Unfortunately, the AWE32 card sounded awful and tinny no matter what was tried, between me and two other people. It was clearly designed with the wavetable synth in mind (Good OPL3 sound required an amplifier with good filtering, and the wavetable synth did not). Plus, the SPDIF output is connected before the amplifier - so you get pure OPL3 sound with no filter, resulting in a tinny/empty sound.
I was very disappointed in that card, I had very high hopes for it. It's just a bad design for OPL3, which makes sense, since live digital synthesis was on the way out.
Honestly, I don't think I've even used that card once since the making of this video, that's how much of a disappointment it was.
@@OPL3music The tinny/empty sounds are not due to the opl3 hardware, but to the software that using only 2 oscillators per track instead of 4 oscillators per track, which is a hardware option of OPL3 . AWE32 supposedly had 16-bit SPDIF, but AWE64 Gold had 20-bit SPDIF ( supposedly even 24-bit if synced in 4 seconds to SPDIF recever )
I had trouble to installing software to create sounds with 4 oscillators per track, which is a nicer dense sound that can be used in today's productions. Another way to get a dense sound is to insert MIDI SysEx for Yamaha OPL3 into the midi file to use a set sound with 4 oscillators and envelopes per trak
Awesome!
Love the old 90s PC sound card world :)
I don't dare to take dip into that ISA pool LOL
Oh? Why not? If you're itching to get into it, now is the time, before it gets expensive. Right now, you can pick up a nice ISA sound blaster for ~$20 on Ebay. It'll need capacitors replaced, but that's a given with all of them.
They're being destroyed at a phenomenal rate and the demand is rising, so the price will be skyrocketing within ~5-10 years!
This video has me highly considering the Vibra 16s card for the DOS Pentium MMX machine that I will be building on a budget, the nicer cards are just so much more expensive. Thanks for doing the demo comparison!
You probably made a choice by now, but I have this card in my DOS Pentium 166 MMX and it works great.
Ah, the wonderful jumpers. I had little to no idea how to do mine, since it came with them in weird places. I couldn't find any documentation on what did what, so I tried the elimination route to see how few jumpers it took to get it working. Using an auto discovery opl3 player is a nice feature into seeing what the jumpers did.
Love this video, great music, fantastic old hardware!
interresting I will keep these numbers in mind. I too am more and more on the lookout for ISA-era sound cards. For me, the SB16CT2830 was my first actual soundcard I bought back in the 1990's... The dual opl2 card is actually a gift from fellow youtuber eep386 from quite some time ago... I guess a feel pressure to put it to good use now! but I have now started a simple track and dual opl2sounds very... distinctive!
loved your video and you are right. The difference in games is also massive. For old DOS games you want to go with a SB16. I own a SB16, a Awe32 ct3600 and Awe64 gold. For games that provide AWE support on their setup.. then awe is great. BUT If setup provides soundblaster only....better get a SB16 because the sound on an AWE will be bad. Games like wolf3d , Commande keen, have better sound on a SB16, not on an AWE. Awe32 also has hanging note bug...that sucks.
My personal favorite Sound Blaster is actually the CT2290 now, since I favor a CT1747 chip over a YMF262. A Sound Blaster CT2770 is also a really good bet.
I have not heard any hanging notes on any of them, although there are other minor MIDI issues but I don't think the card is at fault. The worst I've heard is a portamento going the wrong direction...That was fun. XD
I have noticed the different sound on a few tracks. I'll probably look into the driver soon, thanks for the info!
Thanks, really helpful video. I rescued a Gateway G6-333c from e-waste at my work with the intention of putting an SB16 in it and using it for Adlib Tracker II. Based on this comparison I decided to go for the CT2830 and got one off eBay, hoping it all works out well.
I hope so too! I've moved on from these cards and I really need to do another comparison video showcasing them. I also highly recommend a SB 16 CT2230 card.
Thanks for the tip, if I'm not absolutely thrilled with the CT2830 then I might pick up a CT2230 to see if I like it better. What are some of the advantages the CT2230 has?
The CT2230 is a plug and play card, so it's a bit easier to configure. The CT2830 doesn't have a proper sound until you set it up correctly, which involves setting jumpers on the card. It's not a huge problem, although a bit annoying if you don't understand it (Which at first, I did not).
The sound difference with a CT1747 OPL3 chip is subtle. In my opinion, having compared it side by side, it sounds more like an AdLib/OPL2 card. Slightly more chirpy highs, and a little more emphasis on the bass.
Bottom line, though, what makes any sound blaster sound good is the presence of two VRMs, a TEA2025b amplifier chip, and many capacitors surrounding said amplifier. Any SB16 model configured that way should sound good.
Well damn, I got the CT2830 and it doesn't even fit in this old Gateway PC's case. I could get it to fit by mangling part of the chassis, maybe. Are all the real SB16s this huge, or just some of them?
Sigh. Gateway. And HP. They never cease to amaze.
Most of the good sounding cards are that size, yes. If you need a smaller one, you can snag a CT2770 or a CT1740. Both of them use two VRMs and a TEA2025b amplifier chip.
The difference is that the CT2770 has a CT1747 OPL3 chip, and the CT1740 has a real YMF262 OPL3 chip.
I will say that your Vinyl Avatar is very fitting for your channel :P
Ah, yes, the voice chip thingy. I don't know much about it, but yes, I think it is on there. If I am not mistaken, it should be the chip near the top center (Just above the CT1747 OPL chip) that says "CT1748-SBP".
There's also two pins on the card that look like they're meant for a jumper, but they're used for SPDIF output. Coolio, no?
CT2830!!!! that's the Sb16 version I have also... glad to see the FM sound is juicy on it. I have not done much with that feature opl3, as I usually do tracks with digital sound samples. I am however migrating to FM, trying to do a song taking advantage of a dual opl2 sound blaster pro1 as of late (if I only had more time for play).... I agree SB16CT2830 may sound best...but I tend to view these as singing the same song with "different" instruments.
love your videos man, i have a box full of soundblaster isa cards and now im try to get them running not easy.
Aww thanks. Whatever you do, just don't throw them away, even if they're broken. Some people take the chips off and repurpose them. In ten years these things are going to be scarce.
Never heard of Advance Logic. o.0 Might have to look it up.
I do have an ESS AudioDrive ES1869F, a Yamaha YMF724, a Crystal Audio CS4236B, and a bunch of Crystal Audio CS4280 cards. Whenever I get access to the internals of that computer again I'll probably make another video!
At the moment, though, I'm having such a blast with Adlib Tracker...
Once I get my P1 rebuilt I'll have ~10 different sound cards. LOTS more videos to come. :)
Admittedly, I'm not a fanboy of the old sound cards, however, I *DO* prefer a sound card that actually processes the sound, not one that pushes it off on the CPU like all modern cards. But the big kicker is that I *REALLY* love FM synthesis. It's a shame modern cards don't have it, 'cause It's amazing! I wish they had kept some soft of software emulated thing in place of it, CQM even...
You prolly know this by now but not everything modern is useless, pro 'Audio Interfaces' have full DSP and routing capabilities, 2 of my MOTU units (teh ones form round when this was made lmao) can do full near 0 latency compression, EQ, reverb, delay and 8 bus mixing etc in the DSP. I'm a lil jelly of the sounds of ur collection tho lol.
@@mycosys Oh, for sure. As far as instruments go, people can make as many software synthesizers as they like, but I don't like a single one of them. I miss having hardware generated audio.
For recording, however, modern cards are most certainly unrivaled.
I still like that old sound and play MIDI sequences in DOSBox, using OPL-3 emulation.
Thanks for this, I had a SB16 and Vibra 16, not sure now which Vibra 16, it was OEM.
Cheers!
These are all superb. I still have my awe 64. When I would play Star Trek next generation theme (MIDI at that time) it was almost as spectacular as the being at the cinema itself.
+The Dollar Guy Hang on to that card. I have personally never experienced an AWE64 or GUS, although I have a GUS and I just need to get it working. But I have heard recordings, and yeah, they sound awesome.
I always found the "FM" sound a bit flat or plain kind of sounding in a way. However, if you give it a little bit of reverb and maybe som chorus it really opens up. Much like a DX7 which is based on the same technology.
No, this channel has always been named such. I'm just a random die-hard FM fan that stumbled across one of his videos. Said video told me what hardware I needed to get and he's been supplying me with some additional goodies and tips ever since.
Yeah, FM is just too unappreciated. I hope that'll change someday. I'm totally, utterly, absolutely obsessed with it.....I actually don't listen to much of anything that didn't go through an OPL3, I just love it that much!
Did a quick image search, and I didn't see a YMF262 chip on the 2910. It seems to be hit or miss, depending on the card. Personally I wouldn't get one without a CT1747 or YMF262 chip, and they seem to be a little pricier.
A "vibra" card from Soundblaster means a model that is only available through an OEM brand like Dell or Gateway. IIRC, it was Dell that was more into Soundblaster while Gateway used alternate brands like Orchid. It is supposed to denote that the features are more limited compared to the retail version. One of the weirdest things ever was the Soundblaster live through Gateway that had a digital PCM output for the front speakers (lime green). The speakers were Boston Acoustics multimedia.
I really, REALLY need to upload another one of these. I have found two, possibly three, other SB16's that sound much much better. CT2290, CT2770, and possibly CT2230.
I do love the sound of the AWE32 - CT1747 sounds better than a YMF262 in my opinion. But at the time of this video, the bass on the SB16 sold me. The SB16's I named above have the same bass response as the one in this video, but they have a CT1747 chip.
My recent town.mid upload uses a CT2290, if you'd like to hear it.
Glad to see someone has an affinity for this kind of music; it used to bug me back in the day when my Amigafile friends would mock me and my SB16 because it wasn't using digital samples like all of their games/demos did.
I agree with your conclusions. The original SB16 was an awesome card.
Hmm. I was going to try Adlib Tracker on the XV card for lulz in the next few days (using a headset), so thanks for the warning. It won't stop me, but now I know what to expect.
CT2290 has the best of both worlds. Boomin' bass and crystal clear, chirpy highs. I've got to get another comparison video up soon......oh, the angst!
That's close to what i'm looking for, but on esfm. Nobody seems to have uploaded the whole ost using the ess audiodrive (Esfm).
I have the following
Soundblaster PRO 2 ISA
Soundblaster AWE32 4MB
Soundblaster 16 ISA
Soundblaster Vibra 16S ISA
Soundblaster Vibra 16XV ISA
Soundblaster AWE64 GOLD
Soundblaster 8Bit ISA
Soundblaster 16FM
Soundblaster 16 ISA REV2
and a Roland MT-32 and SC-88
System 1
Duel Pentium III 800MHZ
512MB SDRAM
Geforce 4 TI 4800 + 2x Voodoo 2 12MB
Soundblaster AWE64 + Roland SC-88
Windows 98SE Custom SP3 + Windows 2000 SP4R2
Asus P2B-DS Motherboard
I find it one of my best classic gaming rigs
I have the following
Sound Cards
Sound Blaster Pro 2
Sound Blaster 16 CT1740 (3x)
Sound Blaster 16 CT1770 SCSI (2x)
Sound Blaster 16 CT2830
Sound Blaster Vibra 16 CT4180
PCs
Pentium 100, 32 MB RAM, Cirrus Logic GD5446, WFWG 3.11/DOS 6.22
Pentium 133, 32 MB RAM, S3 Trio 64v+, Windows 95
Pentium II 300, 256 MB RAM, S3 Virge DX, 3Dfx Voodoo 2, Windows 98
AMD Athlon II X4 965, 4 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 750 TI, Windows XP/Windows 7
AMD Ryzen 5 2600x, 16 RAM, nVidia RTX 2060, Windows 10
Graphics Cards
S3 Trio 64
S3 Trio 64v+ (3x)
S3 Virge DX
S3 Savage 2000
nVidia Riva TNT (2x)
nVidia Riva TNT2 M64
nVidia Geforce 2 MX 200
nVidia Geforce 2 MX 400
nVidia Geforce GTS 450
nVidia Geforce GTX 750 TI
nVidia Geforce GTX 770
nVidia Geforce GTX 960
nVidia Geforce GTX 1070
nVidia Geforce GTX 1660 TI
nVidia Geforce RTX 2060
Number Nine Imagine 128
ATI Rage II+
ATI Rage 128
ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
AMD Radeon RX 560
AMD Radeon RX 570
Trident TVGA9400CXi VLB
Motherboards
Intel Advanced/ATX (Thor)
Intel Advanced/ML (Marl) (3x)
Intel AG430HX (Sony OEM) (Agate)
Intel TE430VX (Gateway 2000 OEM) (Tiger Eye)
Intel TC430HX (Tucson)
Intel AN430TX (Anchorage) (2x)
Intel WS440BX (Gateway OEM) (Warmsprings)
ASUS TX97-XV (HP OEM)
ASUS VX97
ASUS P2L97
ASUS P2B
ASUS M2N68-AM Plus
ASUS Prime B350-Plus
ASUS ROG Strix B450F Gaming
ASUS ROG Strix X470F Gaming
Gigabyte GA-5AA
Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3
Gigabyte Aorus X370 Gaming 5
PCChips M919
CPUs
Intel Pentium 75
Intel Pentium 90 (2x)
Intel Pentium 100 (2x)
Intel Pentium 120 (2x)
Intel Pentium 133 (3x)
Intel Pentium 150
Intel Pentium 166 (3x)
Intel Pentium 200
Intel Pentium MMX 200
Intel Pentium II 233
Intel Pentium II 300
Intel Pentium III 800
AMD K6-2 450
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+
AMD Phenom X4 9850
AMD Athlon II X4 965
AMD Ryzen 3 2200G
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
AMD Ryzen 5 2600X
AMD Ryzen 7 1700
Saved a search on eBay, I'll keep an eye out for a CT1600. Thanks for the tip!
i just got a CT1600, a few CT1740 SB16s, and a couple CT1770 SCSI SB16s, and a Vibra CT4180.
god i miss the sound of my Sound Blaster Vibra16XV. The sound of it was absolutely amazing. Games like "Ken's Labyrinth", "Lemmings" or "The Games - Winter Challenge" sounded flawless with that card. This really is when Adlib Sound on Soundblaster cards peaked :)
at least its best than the crappy sb 16 emulation of Soundblaster live and audigy
@@xXFlameHaze92Xx Yeah! No matter what emulation i have heard so far, NONE of them sounded like the Vibra 16XV.
@@KRAFTWERK2K6 Vibra 16 doesnt even sound like OPL3, but its far better than Ensoniq SB16 emulation implemented on later developments like Soundblaster Live or Audigy 2. The only thing i regret from my SB Vibra 16 its it can´t upgrade with midi Soundfonts (I use WavEffects version).
Depends on the Vibra card. A select few of them have real OPL3 chips on them. Even fewer have decent OPL3 emulation.
@@xXFlameHaze92Xx Yeah that's a downside for sure. If you really wanna use soundfonts and even expand on the Wavetable ROM, then you need something else. Personally i always loved the Soundblaster 4.1 a lot more than the Live. The wavetables are very different on both. And about the Audigy…… i only have an Audigy 2 ZS for PCMCIA cardbus. And i only used it for its DAC. Never really used it for MIDI Soundfonts. At one point i kept using Tmidity for that.
Gonna go ahead and repurchase a PC desktop windows 95 with Soundblaster 16 it should have music on the all the 1990's DOS games as well thanks for this great peice of info.
The CT2910 has a YMF289B, also known as the OPL3-L, which is a Low Voltage version of the OPL3.
Ohhhh, you're looking for ESFM? I do have two ESS Audiodrives with FM on them. I could do that....in fact, I think I will.....however, I can't record anything until I get a few more parts in for my recording computer.
Judging by a quick Google image search, the Sound Blaster PCI 128 doesn't have an OPL3 chip, which means it's using some form of CQM. CQM has a lot of odd variants (like the CT4170 featured in this video), but I honestly haven't heard one I *TRULY* like yet. The real deal is much, much better.
I haven't noticed any issues with it on any of the MIDIs I've played.
I'm not 100% sure I'm getting you the DSP info, but from a quick google search and reading the chips, I see one marked "CT1731 v413" (I think it's supposed to be 4.13).
I have a Sound Blaster 16 in a Pentium 133mhz machine. And a Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold in a Pentium Pro 200mhz machine. Haven't tried the midi with the awe64 card yet.
My favorite OPL implementations were the integrated YMF289B on the Yamaha DS-XG YMF744/724 series cards(very good sound quality compared to old ISA cards and works on 64-bit Linux if your motherboard has a hardware PCI bus) and the Yamaha-licensed CT1747 IC on older AWE models, which was run through the EMU-8000 chip and could have AWE reverb and chorus applied to it, which brightened up some OPL tracks. The orginal YMF262 on my CT1750 sounds decent too, although this card has awful line noise typical of any really old Creative ISA card.
I wonder how the OPL3LPT sounds?
You've got my curiosity. Do you know some card model numbers that are able to put the OPL3 sound through the AWE reverb and chorus?
I did it with a CT3780 AWE32. You'll need to use the AWEUTIL.COM utility with the /S, /R and /C switches. The program doesn't act as a TSR when used this way and won't interfere with any programs. It should work on your CT3980. This applies the EMU8000 post processing effects to the OPL3 output. Should work on CT2760, CT3900, CT3980, CT3780, and CT3910.
Hardware-wise, the reason this works is that the CT1747 IC is wired to channels 31 and 32 of the EMU8000 chip and can have its effects applied to it. Here's an old archived thread from a forum detailing what an AWE32 with these model numbers can do with the CT1747 chip, where user Cloudschatze, who knows a whole lot about old sound hardware, makes some recordings and observations: web.archive.org/web/20130323155402/queststudios.com/smf/index.php?topic=2416.0
Those OPL3 recording links still work, there's a Tyrian recording with reverb applied to it.
I got a soft spot for the AWE32 and AWE64... dunno why, since I "only" had SB16 as a kid. It just sounds different in a good and exciting way :D
The CT2830 sounds fantastic! How would it compare against a software FM like in dosbox?
I always liked my awe32 (is like yours) better that any sound card I used after that one. Now I know I'm not crazy! props for your vid. Mine is still stored somewhere. I sometimes think of getting an old pc and install it to see if still works...And connect the MS Force Feedback Joystick that works with that :D. I read it has a chip where some kind of program could be stored and run for audio processing? but that wasn't exploited, a shame. dr.sbaitso and talking parrot ftw.
SB16 rocks. I need to upload another comparison with my new favorite cards. I have about 15 different FM variants now. Two of them stand head and shoulders above the rest, and there's plenty of honorable mentions as well.
Awww, you're welcome. More on the way soon!
The CT2830 was my first *REAL* SB16....I liked it for the bass response. At the time of this video, these four Sound Blasters were all I had. However, I started trying a lot of variants and different cards....and I found two incredible ones - the CT2290 and CT2230. If you thought the 1830 has bass.....well, the 2290 has boomin', blastin' bass. CT2230 sounds about the same, but I haven't played with it much.
And whoa, you got your hands on one of the dual OPL2 cards? That's a rare find!
my Vibra16XV has the same line noise problem, do not use headphones with that card unless you like getting nasty shocks from the output. this issue is probably a grounding one that causes all the noise that i suspect may be part of the design of the card.
the cqm sb16 with the nichicon caps and the philips amplifier has good bass.
nice comparison, thank you
No, actually. It's in an FM format. The filetype is ".d00".
I added a link to the Vibrants website in the description. If you don't have the actual hardware to play this on, you can use an emulator, but it sounds really bad by comparison.
If there's something you really want to hear, plenty of us OPL3ers on youtube have an open offer to record a track or two on request. ;)
That'll do, Thanks!
I may try comparing the sound of my AWE32 to a thinkpad I have with OPL2 emulation, maybe even my SBLive (although that one's broken, no idea what's wrong).
I know that you uploaded this video a long time ago, but I listened to it and I want that Pop Syndrome sequence! How did you get it? I tried to access to the vibrants page but it don't respond. So, can you help me to get it?
By the way, I love this video, and it showed me what kind of crappy sound card I just bought (the vibra XV, but I'm not disappointed at all). I wonder if someday I'll can get a AWE32...
Thanks for all!
(I'm Spanish, so forgive me if I made any mistake writing!)
Speaking of OPL3-alikes, have you ever tried a Sounblaster PCI 128? We had one of those 3 computers ago. Definitely sounded "off" somehow. I was young back then so I wouldn't really know, I just know DOSBox sounds different to the SB PCI 128 and I'm assuming DOSBox is more accurate.
Hmmmm. I don't see any SoundBlaster Pro cards on ebay, are they rare?
I've got an AWE64 gold. It's great for sample based midis, it sounds amazing, but it's also pretty good with OPL3 music. It's kind of like an AWE32, but more watered down, and very little noise. It's not bad, but I'd really like a SB16.
The AWE32 and Vibra16S sound SO heavily high-pass filtered compared to the SoundBlaster 16 CT2830 and the SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects. But GOD, the CQM in the CT4170 sounds like crap. To think the first SoundBlaster I used in a DOS PC build was an AWE64 CT4500 which no longer works. I first thought that was true OPL3!
You should do another comparison with the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0. I like heavily filtered FM Synthesis, and let me tell you, the low-pass filtering is quite heavy on this thing.
As someone without any ISA slots, what would be a good solution for old sound like this?
There are some PCI Yamaha cards (YMF724), and they have an OPL3 component, and I believe they even have drivers up to Windows XP. However, they do not play nice with other sound cards installed, so it has to be the only card in your system (Which isn't a problem for most people anyway).
Does the CT2830 have the nasty hanging notes bug when using midi and digital at the same time? What DSP version does it have?
AWE32 - YMF262
SB16 (Original) - YMF262
SB16 CT2980 - CQM
SB Vibra16 - CQM
SB16 Wave Effects - CQM
SB AWE64 - CQM (i think)
There are different models for every product name. Sometimes even the CT-number isn't exact enough so that is comes down to the revision number in those cases.
the last song's instrumentation sounds like the missing link between Soundblaster FM known throughout the world and Japan's PC Engine/98 games, curiously although they are FM synthesis compositions... would be nice to hear some non-Touhou PC98 games music played on Soundblaster
Hmm...Think you could do the whole entire tyrian ost? (I would myself, but of course i don't have an old pc at the moment.)
Set the mixer correctly on the AWE32 and then repeat. ;)
Myself and someone else both went at that card...... The final determination was that the OPL3 output on it is just not a good design. I have found cards I like much better since this video, too. That said - I still have the card!
@@OPL3music Do you know, is the AWE32 basically a Soundblaster 16 with an EMU8000 attached or is the OPL3 implementation different on the AWE32?
As far as I can remember, this particular AWE32 card's primary purpose is the AWE32 component. It's been nearly a decade since I've used it, but if I recall correctly, you have to specifically switch it to OPL mode in the driver for it to work. Hopefully that answers your question.
I got a sbpro ct1600 ymf262 it's great!!!! i love my overdrive pc soooo much:3
I don't have a 486 so i use my SB Pro 2.0 CT1600 in my Pentium 100 MHz PC.
The sound blaster 16 sounds much better here than the awe32. However, I'm pretty sure I had an awe32 and my friends had the sound blaster 16. They got their computers around 1993 and mine in 1995 on a 133mhz. I thought mine sounded better because the electric guitar in Doom sounded like a real electric guitar. I think I'm remembering the models correctly. Maybe I had the sound blaster 16. I'm not sure.
No, you remember correctly. You will have played Doom set to use AWE32 for music which results in hearing wavetable music instead of synthesized music. Your friends were stuck with Adlib/OPL music. Only a very expensive General Midi wavetable from Roland or Yamaha would've given you even better music.
You should redo this video of you have a new favorite and different cards. You should also throw in some SB16 clones if you have any, that would make an awesome video.
Yeah, I desperately need to do an update video. o.0
I have a 5-day break from my suicidal job coming up in a week or two - I have LOTS of new cards to document. I'll see if I can get something done then. I actually got my hands on an original Adlib with an OPL2 chip, too!
th-cam.com/video/6Na81CmcrhE/w-d-xo.html
I am revisiting this sweet video in 2020 as I NOW have a SB32 with the ram slots CT3600. I also have plenty of actual Yamaha portasound keyboards with FM chip sounds in them. My question now as it was back when I heard this video, is Are there any programs to directly edit and save FM sound presets like on the Keyboards? In other words, a program in DOS or Linux or Windows that directly tweaks the synth chip and you can save your tweaks as a file to be recalled? I am a musician so gaming is NOT my thing, MIDI music composing is.
There are programs for patch editing, although I do not know how to use them or even what they are called.
Any time I am making music with my SB16, I go straight to Adlib Tracker. Last I checked, it was still in active development, and has quite a few useful features.
@@OPL3music Yeah I forgot the name of the one I was using way back in 2000. It was in DOS but it saved the output to wav so I had samples to play with afterwards. Now funny you mention adlibtracker! I am on Linux and I have been installing alot of music apps and I did install some trackers last night. I have no clue how to use them lol! But then again, I have alot of free trackers to choose from and learn so, I will learn. One of them looks like a Amiga OS GUI tracker but in Linux. Milkytracker?
@@pianokeyjoe If it used samples, would it happen to be scream tracker?
@@OPL3music Hmm I do not know right now. I have to check after work. Not Scream tracker though. I am a horror movie buff and would remember THAT name lol!
@@pianokeyjoe Might have been fast tracker too..... A Google search says it apparently it uses samples? That's news to me, though, I thought it was FM only. Never used it.
YMF262? What's that?
I like the highs of the CT3980, whose bass sounds too electronic, and the bass of the CT2830, whose highs sound a bit muffled.
SB16 and Vibra16S are bae
Good comparison but unfortunate for my childhood OPL chips sound like circular saws and whoopie cushions to me. I should have gotten an Amiga :). There are good Yamaha chips too, and even YM2612 (Sega Genesis) sounds better to me despite sample rate etc. Competing standards probably hindered quality on DOS games (and despite being a standard, General MIDI was just another thing to account for when it first came out). The clean reproduction of simple FM brings out its shortcomings--OPL1 had more charm at least. Amiga equivalents of the same games were better by far (vs DOS or NES). I'm researching to make retro synth music, so I wandered here.
The SB16 emulation from DOSBox really makes me angry, it has a really harsh tone to it and doesn't sound at all what it's meant to be. I'd like to make a request: Can you do the Killer Whale theme from Undersea Adventure? (Knowledge Adventure, 1994) I want to know if it sounds any different on a real SB16. May I also ask that you put an MP3 link when you do that?
Huh, why are some of those high-pass filtered?
i have a soundblaster vibra 16xv ct 4170 card. but when i install it into my 486 pc the video signal gets garbled and corrupted. i dont know why its happening.
Try it in another slot. If it still doesn't work, then it sounds like you might have a dead/shorted component on the sound card, and I would get it repaired before you put it back into the computer to reduce the risk of damage.
Torbas Hansen and Vibrants RULE!
i just laughed my ass off at this video i have been using a vibra 16 for two months ~_~
+Diode Milliampere lol.. flawed comparison.. be nice to the little people
+Chris Nova777 Little people....? Yeah okay >_>
+Chris Nova777 i laughed cuz i didn't realize the card was so shitty. I posted the comment when i was experimenting with cards. Weirdly, the libretto card isn't so bad! it's loud
Diode Milliampere lol the Vibra was magic... It seemed to play a totally different song.
Excellent demonstration of OPL3 capabilities. Please, can you share the files and programs you used for testing those cards? I want to test my soundcard too. Thanks!
This music in this video was played using AdPlay, and the music was found on www.vibrants.dk/ but it seems the website is offline. I do have a copy of the music on my computer, but the hard drive is failing so I dare not start it until I have a backup ready.
I do have some new comparison videos that use Adlib Tracker II, and they're a lot better than this video. If you want to compare or test cards, it's a much better place to start.
th-cam.com/video/p6IITanvS6Y/w-d-xo.html
Do you think you could run a midi of a song from a doom 2 deathmatch wad called dwango5.wad and convert it to mp3? :)
I think that bass differences between the good ones (SB16, Vibra16XV) and the bad ones (AWE32 and Vibra16S) are mostly due do dead capacitors. AWE32 sounded better 25 years ago... the other differences are due to CQM (Vibra 16C and X/XV) which does not produces 100% accurate emulation of the original (expansive and power consuming) OPL-3 Chip (Vibra16S)
In the case of this particular AWE32, the card was recapped after this, and checked out by a few people. The ultimate determination was that it was a bad design, since nothing was able to give it any significant bass response. Even adjusting the mixer didn't help.
I am told that the Vibra in this video doesn't even have any filtering capacitors, hence why it sounds so tinny.
You're absolutely right on CQM, it's a real disappointment most of the time.
There don't seem to be many of us interested in this stuff. Shame, really. Nice to know I'm not the only one that likes it, though.
Eep386 and Raymangold22 have uploaded a goodly amount, and there's a lot of other people uploading a random tune or two. :D
Why no "fake" soundcards from ESS, Avance logic and others? Some of them even have a OPL3 clone.
Yeahh.... Creatively great sound.... :-D
Megamax X has AWE32/OPL3 music? What's this now?
i found a ct2830 sb16 on ebay for $15.99 on ebay with free shipping, i bookmarked the site so i can get it when its pay day
hahaha yeah I saw in a comment you changed your channel name ? :P... FM needs all the love it can get, I don't get how the SID music scene is so big and the FM one is so small...
Hi. How about CT3670? Does it sound as good as CT2830?
Creative vibra 16xv the best ✌️✌️✌️