Turntables - new or vintage?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2019
- I've been playing vinyl records continuously since the 1970's, owning a bunch of different turntables in that time. But what's the state of the turntable market in 2019? Should you buy new or vintage? I thought it was about time to upgrade my vinyl setup again, so I went out and bought some turntables to test. In this video, I scientifically test four turntables in various performance metrics that I think are important, and then judge them on look & feel and value. Along the way, I hope to answer whether you should buy a new or vintage turntable (and even which specific model).
Included in this test: representing the vintage era, my venerable old fully automatic, direct drive Sony PS-LX3 and the decidedly all manual (but also direct drive) Technics SL-1200 Mk5; and for the new turntables, the semi-auto belt-driven Fluance RT-82, and the full auto belt-driven Denon DP-300F. All of these models offer something unique that I wanted to try out. The performance results were somewhat surprising!
I purchased all of these turntables with my own money; none were provided by the manufacturers. Buyee helped out with shipping from Japan but I bought the products themselves.
btw, I actually don't get a cut from anything you buy on Buyee (nor any of the manufacturers in this test), but I do have Amazon affiliate links that I'd love it if you used if you buy a domestic turntable:
ebay.to/2mHXr6o
amzn.to/31WMDoJ
As promised, here are a couple of cartridge comparison videos that I like from around TH-cam. Keep in mind that TH-cam is still compressing the music so these won't sound exactly the same in your home, but you can still use these videos to compare cartridges against each other and the differences are often obvious:
• World's Biggest Phono ...
• Phono Cartridge Shooto... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I fucking love your "I don't give a shit" attitude unless there's a measurable improvement and/or logical reason for things. You have earned my respect, sir.
yes , he hears records but not interested in music and he says blue-rays have high definition audio ,well he should contact all brands that built them because they do not know, well maybe i´m wrong high-definition might not mean high-fidelity or per say good quality sound, he says he likes to hear music with low quality or as all call it low-fi but then "high definition sound ,well where we stand bad sound or the best possible at least the old you know they have better sound and will last for more 40 years and new it does work bad since the first day and will never work 1 year or maybe he likes to hear music once in a 5 years period ,well the same ,this time stoped will be stuck when trying to put it to work again, and because he he´s a young man he thinks he knows better than people who have done it before he was born, but to end i have to say the Fluance is much better than any Pro-ject or Rega , if one wants to meet a average sound of a 70´s turntable with the Pro-Ject brand one as to spend 14.000€ , and Fluance already offers with 300€ more quality than a 1.000€ Pro-ject only notice that is using a OM from Ortofon , but i thought Fluance turntables had AT cartridges ,maybe it depends in which state you buy it or country, the new OM as a olderr brother that made people in early 80´s say that Dual was the best turntables at the time and the cartridge allthough some had dual on the side of the cartridge ,they were made by Ortofon, but the old looking OM cartridge from early 80´s as a similar sound to what today people call 2MBlack from the same brand and doesn´t sound that good but acptable and also new stylus cost 6 times more than in the past and have 1/5 of the listening hours and the new look like the stylus point fell off, it happened to me when buying a new cartridge for a old turntable i have since second half of the 70´s that i have a AT tonearm and a V15 shure needle but i had to buy a AT-art9 for it ,, sounds good but not as it sounded before which was perfect, the turntable is a pioneer PLC-590 from 20 series
@@RUfromthe40s Mate. If you're going to type an opinion, use punctuation and proof read your post before posting it. I just turned 63. I have been around sound all of my life and I'm still learning BUT there are constants that you have to follow. Sometimes bad engineering using cutting edge studio gear can be a disaster. I don't know everything. If you say you do, you're full of it. I remembered the name of a processor called the Sweet Vinyl Sugar Cube. This thing uses an algorithm that removes surface noise and you can listen to your record in real time, filtered or what it removes by simply selecting it on the front. It's strange listening to surface noise and a few pops and crackles without the music. It's not a gimick. One of the cheaper units is gonna set you back $1,500 AUD. If you were doing a blind A B test, you'd think you were listening to a digital format. The guy doing the review said look away now and after going backwards and forwards, the vinyl copy sounded better than the CD. It was great listening to 78s too. When you removed the scratches, Count Basie sounded "released" from the shackles of the time. On some 78s, you had to use the Sugar Cube. Shellac records are often cracked to the point where you cannot listen to them. The surface noise is that bad. Put this processor inline and it is chalk and cheese. I am very interested......no passionate about my music. Cheers everyone. Andrew from Australia.
@@scratchback2001 well i´m in my 70´s and i never said i know it all but think. if one worked in the music business not only as a consumer but playing, recording for at least 60 years at least, one gathers information ,i only explained the basics not were going to writte here a manual of the history of recording sound, pplaying instruments and home audio equipment as professional , so i´m full of it ,what would you expect ,i grew up in a family that had a lot of taste in music as all were hearing music since ever , at least since my great grandfather and my great grand mothers as all my uncles that were 12 and my cousins that were 27 ,this at least 5 years older than me as i also had the luck og being born in rich family´s in a time that even in the 80´s i saw lot´s of human misery and sometimes i would feel bad for others ,some of my friends that we met when we were 4 or others when we were 7 years old, some were really poor and grew up with them none of this friends had more than a radio cassette player or portable radio reel player in mono, so i think you didn´t understand me at all , and this youtube thing as been a terrible experience as we don´t know to whom i´m talking top, about pontuation, writte all i´ve written in Portuguese please as it is my first language ,sometimes i find myself talking about recording cassettes with men that weren´t even born when cassetyte decks and cassettes vanished from the market, so i´m leaving the coments as people today aren´t a litle aware of what reality is and have nothing like education, it's sad but it's true, stay there with the rockets, launch them and party alone, as the world evolves to me it seems more that the whole truth is transfigured, and evolution is nothing more than a throwback to the time when information was only available to a privileged few, and instead of there being a community, individualism is the rule and this happens all over the world in every young man, don´t forget ,translate all to portuguese without using a diccionary and don´t forget pontuation ,if you like to prove others wrong before comenting your opinion, as i said all are the best in their minds and it feels bad when i read that you are 63 as we grew up in the same world and only am 74, still working in agriculture still learning about mechanics as my main hobby either than all related to music is cars and till i was 50 ,womenwas my main consern ,never i looked for young girls as some do but if they don´t leave you alone one isn´t cold to the point of living alone and regecting 20 years old women, or just treat them as i do with my daughetrs grand daughters or close to me, family women, i only start to live steady when i made 50 years old ,stoped drinking ,taking drugs and living like a kid as i kept my 5th wife till today allthough we never married and wasn´t a young girl but a fine woman similar to me in habbits only 3 year younger as i met her in highschool when she was only 12 and very pretty and always around at the time older boys like my group of friends when i was 15, we aren´t married but she his the best part of me and i´m not thinkig of having a 6th wife , don´t forget translate all to portuguese and don´t forget pontuation ,as i would admit you´re wright if you do so
I was fortunate to find a Technics SL1200 MK2 in black (rare for the MK2) and barely used on eBay! I paid a premium for this but the seller packed it properly as if it came from the factory and even included a brand new genuine Technics dust cover. I installed an Ortofon 2M Blue with an Ortofon head shell and the extra counter weight required. I could not be happier! This is a pricey setup with close to a gran invested in both table and cartridge but considering the build quality, the rare black color which perfectly matches my other components and the pristine condition of everything (not a single scratch!)... well... it was worth every cent to me! I’ve honestly never owned a turntable setup that gives me as much joy to use or that I’m more proud to show my friends! Built like a tank and 100% adjustable! There are no new decks which impress me as much as this for under a gran except for (maybe) a new Technics and you would still need to pony up for a cartridge!
Well done. I still have my Technics 1210. Still working great !
This is the first of your videos I've watched, and I'm very impressed by the way you incorporate audio nerd knowledge and commentary into a very clear and understandable discussion. Also, it's quite helpful that you made a clear distinction between useful minutia and BS minutia. Thanks very much!
Thank you so much for such a thorough video. I’ve been searching for a well explained video to help me make this decision. Thank you!
Your knowledge and honesty speak volumes. Much appreciated Sir 👍 Tam.
That was great. Nice criteria. I've bought a small number of direct drive vintage vinyl decks in the wild for cheap: Sonys and JVCs circa 1980. One of which I paired with a new mid-grade Ortofon cartridge. Thanks for covering this. Love the detail. :)
Thanks for your effort. I have a 30yo Technics SL-1200 with Sure V15 cart on its 5th stylus. After learning what you did to raise platter to correct ralationship with tonearm, I found enormous increase in bass frequencies. I always thought the digital media (cd/dvd/br) far surpassed my 1970 - 1990 vinyl. Now, they are comparable. I am grateful to you for the information. My ears and soul thank you too.
I enjoyed watching this video. It was very enlightening to learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff. As the original owner of a 40 year old MCS direct drive turntable, which was manufactured by Technics, I can attest to the fact that with proper, regular maintenance they are among some of the better vintage mid-level turntables out there.
Really good presentation. Great work and I appreciate the effort to get the accuracy of measurement.
JVC JLA40 my dad bought in June of 1977. He gifted it to me. It's priceless to me.
Thank you so much. Your input really brought me down to earth while searching for a new device.
Enjoyed this half hour very much. Thanks for a great presentation. I happen to have owned for several years the Denon (American Black version you mentioned). I've been quite happy with it. As you said, the cartridge it came with was fine, although I did do an upgrade when I found a really good deal on an Ortofon 2M Silver. Thanks again!
Rush A Farwell To Kings, Nice! Never seen a bluray audio, but I did recently get a turntable and got a nice collection of old records, Rush 2112, Permanent waves, Hemispheres, and Chronicles (first 3 albums) included in the collection! Interesting watch, thanks for spending the time and testing all of this to make the video!
Love the honesty about the snake oil found in advertisements... Welcome back, Modern Classic!
This is a great perspective, I’m running an older Pioneer PL-200 with a Stanton cart and am absolutely thrilled with the sound. Always fun to window shop though.
Back into vinyl about a year ago. A lot of research lead me to the Fluance RT-85 & very happy I went that way. That said, I'm looking for a retro turntable to play with & you've given me great info to pursue... Thanks!
My dad was a studio engineer in NY when I was growing up. I inevitably grew into the audiophile sphere, so my library is full of FLAC files. I decided to start looking at turntables last weekend and I'm having one delivered. Absolutely new to the vinyl world and, as a nontraditional computer engineering student, I can't express how much I appreciate the objectivity throughout this entire video. Just subbed and can't wait to start bingeing your videos to further my knowledge on things vintage. Thanks for your obviously hard work!
I'm trying to give my dad a vinyl player he really want one, what do you suggest I could give him
@@nygz1310 I suggest you give him a "turntable" or a "record player", not a vinyl player.
@@arnelarson2849 yes, vinyl used to be to make cloth for women , body shaped while we listen to records on our turntable ,today women are scary slim to dress vinyl clothes, and vinyl are records with dirt and paper bits when new ,normally they seem used records from the 70´s
U might really like shopping around at thrift shops for albums. I know I do. Look closely for scratches. If album is in apaper sleeve, it is likely 2b in good cond.
Thank you for this! This sums up all my reasons for still listening to vinyl while being a sound guy and service tech! :-)
You are by far , the best reviewer out here , and I appreciate the work you do ! Thank you !
Great video! Thanks for your time to make it.
Absolutely awesome this is exactly the dilemma I’m facing at the moment and you’ve helped clear this up very clearly for me thanks very much
Having been into vinyl since the glory years and believing I had fair knowledge about hifi gear, even I took much from this very well presented, informative video. Thank you.
Wanted to come back here and say thanks for the help I bought a Fluance RT81 in 2020 after watching your video and have been really happy with it
The most acurate honest and down to the point presentation.
Being a vinyl lover use to have a vintage turntable Pioneer PL500 and looking for new one I was between Rega & Project but I end up buying fluance RT84 for the looks to be honest, the S shape tonearm the the value for price. Although there is a project agent in Cyprus I bought fluance from Amazon as the company couldn't ship it here.
Excellent video. Would love to see you do tests on a Sony Biotracer and say a Beogram 4000. Two of my favorites when they have been restored!
Well thank you for confirming that I do not need to change from my Technics SL 1300. I've had it for over 40 years, running it with an Ortofon cart and it still sounds sweet.
I have the exact same setup...Ortofon Blue!
I cannot believe it.Have the exact turntable and blue Ortofon cartridge
The SL is from the early 70s ,the Ortofon replaced my Shure Mk4 about 15 years ago.
😂😂
Great video. Thanks for helping me deciding on Fluance.
started out as a kid with a Gerrard...graduated to a Dual...and then stepped up to a Technics SL1300...still loving it today!
This is a really well done video. Thank you for this level of detail!
I own both the Fluance RT 81 and RT 85 tables and couldn’t be happier with them. They both look and perform terrifically!
I don’t own the RT81, but I love my RT85. I own several vintage turntables, including my venerable Sony PS-X600 with its Biotracer tonearm. I don’t like the A-T LP 120 at all. The cogging is horrendous.
I really like my Fluance RT85.
😎 I'm gonna go get one on Monday!!
I might go for one of these. They are quite impressive for the price
You won’t regret it, Robin.
@David Gena
Just wondering, what are the differences between the 81 & 85?
Thanks
I'm glad I came across this video. I've been looking to upgrade from a toy turntable, and have been researching vintage turntables. The more I research, the more I want to just get a Fluance RT82 or RT85.
I'm glad to see I'm not completely off-base with that. I think I'll still go with a vintage receiver though strictly for the looks.
Appreciate your effort in producing this vid! Ordered the RT82; mostly because of your comments
Just subscribed, now I am going to go binge watching everything you posted before and since.
Excellent video thank you. Now if I could only find someone to fix my Quad amps...
Hi whats the prob with your amps
Seriously - Let me know
@@alanpickering4497 My amplifier has an overload light that comes on and won't go away. I can't use or enjoy my Technics receiver. Don't know where to start to get it fixed.
Love the dynamic range on Chvrches - Love is Dead LP. The engineering was done well on that album.
Excellent video , still loving my SL 1200's despte owning and using CDJ 2000 and Serato. Thanks
I recently decided I wanted to be able to play all my old vinyl again, after switching to CDs over two decades ago. I'm naturally suspicious of the newly manufactured turntables, but at the same time, buying vintage ones is risky. This video really helped me understand what to consider in my search. Thanks!
Great advice, and well explained I would love to see somebody with experience and good sense similar to yours compare my totally manual 1960s and 1970s Thorens TD124, TD166, and Garrard 401 with some "new" manual tables.
add to the list the AR totally manual TTs !!
Wow . . . what an amazingly candid, objective and truthful review of the revered turntable and vinyl playback. It's beyond refreshing to have someone knowledgeable put on the record (pun intended) that you don't need to spend $2,500 to $4,500 to enjoy a genuinely satisfying experience with this corner of the music world. Simply outstanding :-) :-)
it depends ,if you´re lucky for at the most 200€ and you have a turntable that will last forever and with a good cartridge and if from Pro-ject to have a better sound or close to it you spend 14.000€ , but fluance seems to be the better and less expensive ,there are the rega but expensive and built cheap, the older P3 was the best ,the new i don´t know but by rule worse than the first
Fabulous presentation! This no-nonsense discussion is truly helpful, for a change compared to other youtubers.
Excellent video and content. I used to be a hi fi audiophile back in the 70s/80s. My gear included a Pioneer PL12D turntable with a Shure or Ortofon cartridge. Am now retired and considering getting back into my old hobby & love of hi fi so this video was a great help. Thank you.
I am happy I kept my old Sansui SR-212 just fitting a new cartridge.
Good choice. After checking and also having some new chinese/taiwanese made turntables, I have ended with Sansui FR-D3. I can only say that no new turntable comes even near to the performance of this one. And the whole unit is very service friendly. I will stay with it for the next two decades. The only thing which will change are cartridge and a headshell.
@@peterregorsek1504 - I have a Sansui FR-D25 with a new AT cartridge. Nice table and I can tweak the speed. Quartz locked would be nice.. maybe in my next turntable...
I have a sr626 with shure and a pioneer pl707 with Pickering xuv 4500q (rare)
Love it
I found a SR-212 for sale. What should I look out for before paying hard cash for this Turntable. What are some recommended upgrades I should do to it
Wow! That was great information. I am rebuilding my stereo because all of my components have developed issues with the exception of my ESS speakers. Thanks. Hector
Huh, my ESS PS-8's were the first part of my 1970's system to fail (cone rot). I hadn't learned how to fix that yet, and it was time for an upgrade anyway. I think I kept one of the tweeters somewhere....
A good and sensible video, thanks. I have been collecting analog type recordings since I was a kid. When I was 8 years old my parents bought an Edison Opera model cylinder record player with 120 records. I used to listen to it a LOT when I was young. It was in my bedroom. I still have it and all the cylinders, and it still plays fine despite being over a century old. I have even bought a few more cylinders for it. My parents record player was a Zenith with the cobra changer and played all 3 speeds. My mother and I began to buy 78s at the Salvation Army, all of which I still have, as well as my parents own 78 records, a total of over 200. My 45s number a couple of hundred also, and my 33s number over 300. I like many genres of music from classical to old time popular from the early 20th century, through older style jazz, swing, and rock. When I was in my 20s I bought and rebuilt a stand up Victrola, which I still have and which plays very well. I bought 4 boxes of needles for it, 500 needles to the box, so I won't ever run out. My own modern turntable is a Stanton STR8-80 which I bought years ago, back when vinyl was still king, and which still plays great. I have a second headshell for it which I have a 78 cartridge in for my older records. One of the beauties of the STR8-80 is that it plays all 3 speeds.
My 12 year old daughter, who is very into music, wants a turntable for Christmas. I still have my TT from college back in the middle 80's. JVC AL-F350. It was a very midrange model that I paid about $120 for at the time. It was fully automatic plus had a great feature called compu-link. Compu-link was something had for their components that allowed you to "link" it to the JVC receiver for remote operation. Remote control receivers had just taken off in the middle 80's, so when I attached this 1/8" jack cable from the TT to the receiver, it allowed me to remotely start & stop the TT- I was loving that. I loved that receiver it was a true 120 watt/channel top of the line JVC receiver with less distortion than today's receivers. I had a set of JBL L100 monitors from the middle 70's. I know my equipment wasn't elite by any means, but it sure rocked the house way better the the Harmon Kardon home theater I have now. Man- I miss those days. Sorry to diverge, great video though!
Gotta love that you flashed Farewell to Kings on Blu-ray
one of the greatest albums in rock in my opinion... been a Rush fan since the late 70s. (yeah, I'm a boomer LOL)
You won me over at 15:30 with A Farewell to Kings. Top album superbly produced.
I have a dp300f I bought in 2010. I’ve always had issues with speed fluctuations. You can adjust it but you have to use a small screw driver on the 2 small holes at the bottom of the deck. And that’s no guarantee the speed will stay stable. Eventually I put in the garage and got an LP 120. It’s what I could afford and it sounds good with my Ortofon Red cartridge. Thanks for posting this video.
I found a dual 721 and did some work on it. Snubber circuit cap needed replaced which got rid of a pop sound when the tone arm returned. I replaced the cheap plastic base with a big base I made out of tiger wood. It looks and sounds beautiful. I use the audio technical 120 cartridge also. Thanks
Thanks so much, with my hearing loss I Got while in the Army I'm hopping that my Pioneer pl 530 is a good one.
Thank you for your service. Wish you all the best.
Solid video. Stuff like this is part of why I subscribed.
Great video, loved it. Congratulations. My turntable is a Pioneer PL-9 from the golden era. It was from my grandpa, witch I turn into my personal project. It’s a very nice piece of equipment, fully automatic.
Excellent video! I had the DP-300 for a few days and it arrived from the factory running way too slow. It was a big effort to blindly jam a slim screw driver up inside into the motor housing underneath to adjust the speed pot. I sent it back shortly afterwards. I'm running a Denon DJ VL12 Prime now and absolutely love it. After using vintage and modern TTs, this ones a keeper. I have the same acrylic mat too. Thanks for posting!
Great vid and I agree totally about the snake oil. I have a Technics SL-J1 linear tracking turntable. Well serviced and fitted with a AT cart it sounds bloody amazing. Behaves like a CD player and is gentle with the records.
I have an SL-J300R and 2 SL-7s, very nice devices, and they can sound very well. They are however not without their disadvantages, for example, during lead-in/out, the linear tracking has to move faster, and is no longer entirely silent. This is something I already noticed in the 1980s on the at the time new SL-Q6, and no amount of maintenance will solve this. The SL-7 over the years maintains a very very low wow & flutter, the lighter J300R however is somewhat less good at that. The J1 is in many ways similar to the J300R, and suffers from the same issue. Good maintenance of the platter bearings will go a long way in reducing this issue, but in the end the platter is just a bit on the light side.
Great video! But I'm sticking to my vintage turntables. I truly appreciate the looks and feel of vintage gear. I just like to dig out the old vinyl on Sundays has a rutual.
Great review; just what I was looking for. Thanks!
Great video! Thanks for sharing your work
My Technucs SL 1900 fitted with Nagaoka MP110 sounds absolutely amazing in my set up. 👍
Tony Colbourne I want to get the Nagaoka MP-110h Cartridge for my turntable.
@@georgedoughly6344 it's well worth it. 👍
Thanks! Been having a hard time finding a good one since I gave my '78 Microseiki away.
Yeah. I had a MS DX1500. I gave it away because the Rega Planar 3 sounded much better. The M Seki looked pretty cool though.
I found the man in this video amazing lots of good information lots of technical stuff given in a easy way to understand way
Glad to see a review on the fluance, i was looking at that turntable for a while. I have a Pioneer PL-530 from 1975 that's still rocking and sounds great. I put an ortofon om2 red on it and it really sounds good now. But eventually the now 48 year old turntable will need to be replaced. Thanks for the info
Great video . Love my Dual though. Thanks man as I'm getting back into audio. Thumbs up!
I love my Dual 1019
ghw7192 I really loved my 604 until I borrowed my brother’s Linn LP12 recently that he bought around the time I bought my Dual 40 years ago
Duals need more love.
Well...you won me over when you held up the Farewell To Kings disc! Great vid!
This video just cleared up the cobweb of information sitting in my brain. In the market for my first turntable, and this was super helpful!
fantastic job, man!! I am really glad I´ve found you here. I have a vintage Sony turntable that is now making some strage noise. I don´t know if I buy one new turntable or take my old sony for some repair. My main concern was about sound quality. And your video helped me a lot on the decision making. Thank you!! I wish I could press the like buttom a hundred times.
To the audiofool an his money - "Just change the cartridge" Love it. Great review.
Exactly.......it’s amazing how great a Japanese made “mid-fi” deck can sound with a good cartridge that’s properly installed/aligned. I would love to have a TOTL turntable with a 50 pound maple plinth, an Uber nice handmade tone arm and an $800 cart but I can’t justify it.
ryanjofre exactly! I don’t see the point in buying a $1000 TT to play thru my $600 used speakers and my $400 vintage receiver. Would I be happier? I doubt it. Just seems like the only thing I would gain is bragging rights.
@@gustercc and spend the $$ on media/tequila
Fluance makes great turntables. I bought a Fluance RT-81 about 3 years ago, and haven't looked back.
I've been looking at that table for a while. Would you mind telling me a thing or two about it? If not, no worries. Congrats on loving your great deck.
I bought the Fluance RT-85 about 8 months ago and I am stunned at the value every time I fire it up. The 85 is $200.00 more but you get an acrylic platter and an Ortofon 2M blue for that money. That cart alone retails for $250.00. The 85 is the best value for money in the entire fluance lineup (in myopinion anyway).
th-cam.com/video/KO3uaeri8_g/w-d-xo.html
I know you can't really get too much out of a video like this as its been recorded on a tablet with whatever sh[[y microphone it has and then sent over the interwebs via TH-cam but here's some Lee Dorsey on the RT 85
Many thanks for your OBJECTIVE comparison of these turntables. I'm an old codger, born in 1955, right at the time when stereo LPs were first introduced, so I grew up with vinyl. During that era, no respectable audio review publication would evaluate equipment without TESTING it to verify that it was meeting specs. (I've lost all patience with today's self-appointed audio experts who seem to believe they have such "golden ears" that they can offer advice on the performance of audio components merely by listening to them.) It's good to know that companies like Fluance are building turntables today that are nearly equal to the great turntables of the past (and in this video you show the statistics to PROVE it). Excellent work!👍
Thanks for a very thorough and well done video. Been using a B&O 4004 turntable since 1980 and just got hold of a Technics 1200 MK2. Using an Ortofon Red cart this combo works very well together. Put a new stainless skin, a new dust cover with hinges and a light bulb for the cartridge (none of it cheap) but it looks like new and sounds great.
Thanks for the video!
My Garrard Lab 80 is fantastic, even with its original cartridge.
My Garrard 401's are also still playing fantastic. Only with another cartridge
My Garrard Zero SB, Model 82 with upgraded AP 76 platter and bearing, and 401 all sound fantastic. Garrards are just so musical when correctly set up in good plinths
I would have loved to see you conduct these same tests with a Nagaoka cartridge.
Really good review. Practical. Thanks for the honesty. Would love to see something about the linear tracking era of turntables. Positive/Negative/Etc.
Just subscribed man. Thank for this enlightens and educational video.
Agree that most turntables are “the same”, but I also sold hi-fi late 1970’s, top end Yamaha and Nakamichi, and can state that the Linn Sondel LP12 is the exception. I recorded Alan Parson’s I, Robot on an LP12 and Reba Planar II, swapping the cartridge over. Rega sounded good, but the LP12 sounded as if someone had taken the speakers from behind the curtains AND dynamic range extended. I even told Ivor Tiefenbrun this to his face in 1979!
I still have my Sondek. It is a wonderful thing.
AP I, Robot !!! a fav discovery back then !! Now listened to in one sitting on my Otari MX5050 @ 15ips
I remember many years ago Ivor Tiefenbrun in the HiFi trade was referred to as " Ivor Teeth In Bum " behind closed doors . Still those same dealers were happy to sell his products . Those same dealers called those buying the LP 12 as " Linn Looneys " . 😉
Saw the Ride album, and I had to watch.
same
Informative and interesting video. Confirmed many of my turntable assumptions over the last 50 years.
I typically can't stomach most affordable (under 300 bucks) TTs but there are a few solid ones and it was great to see your sensible review. I own a Technics 1200 MKII with a Shure M97e cart, and also an AR-XA with a Stanton cart. Both completely different but great for what they are designed to do.
the only time I heard the difference in sound was when Technics went to a lower mass tone arm tube. there was a subtle difference in the mid-bass area. other than that, I agree with you. speaking of vintage, I still listen to my almost 50 year old Technics SL 1100a. :)
I respect your video - good job. Many great points. However - turntables DO sound differently. Significantly different to those that listen carefully. The turntable enables the tonearm. The tonearm enables the cartridge. Put your money into the turntable 1st. Tonearm 2nd. Cartridge 3rd. Once again - great job.
An outstanding technical report! Professional broadcasters cannot make such a long presentation that is packed with facts with flawless speaking and sentences. And they have a team of writers directors and gaffers and tech asst's to do so much of what I think you did on your own. Thank you for your fine work.
I was going to replace my Project RPM 4 just because it was old. Then just decided to give it a try with a different cartridge, the Audio Technica AT440MLa, and the difference was incredible. It completely got rid of that annoying distortion/lack of dynamics at the end of a side of album, made everything sound clearer. Won't replace it until it dies now.
Hello again! I just watched this from start to finish, and I have to say very well done from the verbiage that was used, to the specific sub-topics of the different turntables, it was a great delivery! I'm obviously partial to your SL-1200. ;) One thing I wanted to mention, if you're concerned about copyright algorithms blocking your video, just go into Edit Video > Visibility (Copyright Claim) > View Copyright Claim > Select Action > Dispute > choose Fair Use Act as your reason, then click Entertainment from the dropdown, and explain that you made the video yourself, and paste links from any other TH-cam video that is not blocked that uses that song, and explain that you are allowed to use it too, and you should get it lifted (if blocked at all).
Take it from a man who has uploaded more than 500 full length songs on his vinyl music channel. It works, and you have a right to use the music. Besides, with your level of traffic, TH-cam would not want to lose that ad revenue. You can do it with confidence. Once more, great video!
@Bill Ridge As low as 12hz been detectable under ideal lab conditions. Therefore claims to hear anything below 20hz are almost certainly fanciful. Equipment or recording deficiency could explain the error, otherwise just another false internet claim sadly.
Wow! All we ever did way back when was put the record on and crank up the volume!
sometimes we had to put a penny or two on the "needle"
Thanks so much for the video. I sold high end hifi in the late eighties, and early nineties. We carried Martin-Logan, and Krell as well as Denon, a/d/s, Adcom. I read TAS, and set up sound rooms, and listened for hours well into the night, long after the store closed with customers searching for their nirvana. I still have my Denon DP-59L that none of my tweek customers, who were often blind followers of TAS, would dare consider. I have a Grace f9 Ruby to feel the groove. I enjoy that setup just as much now, as I did back when they were new. You are so right. Digital recordings sound better (when properly mastered). But, vinyl feels better.
Glad I found your channel! Love your comments about the BS sold back in the day, which was true. Fortunately a good friend worked in an audio store back in the 80's, and sold me a turntable I still use today, a Dual CS627Q, and a second needle that was a diamond needle. Still sounds awesome , will never sell it. Terrific video, look forward to watching more.
Woooh I wasn’t expecting a Chvrches record! I do love me some Chvrches when feeling down lol 👍🏼
I got into the vinyl revival last year. I already had a very good stereo setup and bought a refurbished DUAL 704 (direct drive, low mass tone arm, very, very good turntable).
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I clean all my records with Disco Antistat using anti static cleaning fluid and put them in non-magnetic inner sleeves.
If I had the money and knowledge I have now back in the 80's / 90's I would never have bought a CD player.
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Agree with your tip: changing the cartridge can make a HUGE difference, as much as swapping speakers on your stereo.
An average player with a good cart sounds better then a good player with an average cart.
Cliff Hall is 69 the model number? If you could provide the full model number that would be helpful.
Cliff Hall what replacement cartridge did you purchase that did not work?
Non-magnetic inner sleeves..?
Technics TT was a DJ one.
I loved my fully automatic ps x 6, but I love far more digital.
Thanks for this vlog, very good for newcomers
Excellent video. I got a stinking great deal going in on a DJ set of Technics SL1200MK2 and have been very happy with mine, although I still need to get a dust cover for mine. It was nice to see it faired well amongst these other fine choices as I cannot test others myself. I learned I def need to check my cartridge and how high it is. Thanks!
Love the old Denon tables
In just the same way as an oil painting is much more engaging than a photograph (yet the photo is better in every measurable way), so a vinyl is more engaging than a Blu-Ray disc. When listening to music, the scientific performance of the medium is secondary to the entire experience.
One day, music will be transmitted directly into our brains. Such technology will be even closer to the perfect sound than a Blu-Ray. However, there'll *still* be people who will prefer vinyl, simply because it encompasses a variety of our senses, rather than focusing on just one. A fine dinner isn't just the taste of the food. The theatre of a fine restaurant is all part of the dining experience. - That's vinyl in a nutshell.
Studies of the relation between loudness and sound pressure level find a range of 30dB between individuals reporting the same loudness. In other words, the pressure level which elicits the same reported loudness when presented to a listening panel varies as much as one thousand-fold between panelists. Sound is not a physical phenomenon, but psychophysical. Absent audition there can be only acoustic radiation, just as absent vision there can be only electromagnetic radiation. Light and sound require eyes and ears. I'm not making this up. The idea of "the perfect sound" is every marketer's wet dream--true woo and money too.
Is it weird that I like the *smell* of vinyl? Because that's something you can't get from digital audio files.
@@ARCtheCartoonMaster Why weird? It's the same property which still helps keeping the physical books in the market. ;)
the soul is missing in the digital world
Interesting observation. At a local audio club meet a few yrs back, I asked the guest speaker 'what is the reference source you are comparing your product to'? He didn't understand the ?? I asked 'Do you attend the opera? symphony? simple jazz/string performances?' Otherwise, one is listening to THE P.A.
Great video. Nice to get perspective from someone who used to sell turn tables back in the day. Thanks for your frank and nuanced contribution to an often heated online conversation.
I do love the way original vintage records sound on good equipment and that for me was a reason to have a good turntable. This is even true with 78's, many of which have not been reissued in digital of good quality.
I'll continue with "vintage" units. I like my semi/fully automatic units.
dwoodog me to
Same here. Picked up a Technics SL-1350 for $20 at a thrift store. Needs a new stylus, foot and dust cover. Otherwise in excellent condition.
@@charlesonyango5608 so lucky to get it for that!
But I have sl-b5 + sl-1950, both with all 4 spindles and Shure cartridges. To me stacking 33s is senseless but stacking 45s is no end entertaining.
:D
And i love a fully automatic turntable, if i run out the turntable is off when i come back.
Same here. I have a VPI HW-19 Mk. IV (I'll leave all the rest of the details out), and Pioneer PL's -514, 560, 570 (the old, good one), 630 and -L1000, and I've gone through them stem to stern. Set up correctly, the Pioneers will all hang with anything being shown here. The HW-19 Mk. IV's a different case, but it's what I used as a target for tweaking the lighter, lower mass Pioneers. You can't cheat physics, but you can make the best of what's already there in a given design.
I remember when a turntable had a platter made of stamped steel, driven by a shadow-pole motor via a rigid rubber contact wheel. Or, as Abe Simpson said, "My flivver got 14 rods to the hogshead, and that was plenty good for us!"
We would tie an onion on our belt, which was the style at the time...
Glad that I stumbled upon your video, I found it informative...
I love my Technics SL-D2 (bought in 1971 from Soundpost Hi-Fi ) and died in June 2020 and bought a replacement this week --Hope I get years of use
Vintage Turntables are the way to go!! I Love my Sony PS-X5 ❤️
I love my PS-X5 too
Thanks for the no B.S. review!!! I love the sound of my CDs, but I love the look and feel of my vinyl. You perfectly explained why I still spin.
a good turntable with a proper amplifier and speakers(this not spending a fortune) ,you would have dificultie to hear a cd after listening to a record ,for the fact that the record has superior quality of sound compared to a cd version of it,some records that you listen for lot´s of years when listening to the cd version of it sound very bad ,as an example the sound of guitars just disappear and a low sound with no dynamic substitute the real sound of the guitar with the efects used,this for the fact that amplifiers and pedals are anlogic and the conversion to digital erases most of the real sound recorded ,in a pratical example the sound of guitar in the song "in bloom" from nirvana ,doesn´t sound good as the vynil or record version, i always listen to hard-rock and some LP´s from the 60´s ,70´s and 90´s when listening to the cd version they sound really bad ,i reffer the song from nirvana,because they had a version on a sub-pop compilation with the musicians from that nirvana era that i always said to sound much better than the one released in the nvermind cd ,but a few years ago this version was released on a special edition of nevermind cd ,but on the cd both sound bad, iwent to a 2nd hand record shop of vynil and bought for 3 €´s the vynil version of nevermind that i never liked that much but when listening to the record i notice that all the songs had good sound even start to listen to nirvana, another example is the cult lp´s that sound incredible better in vynil compared to the cd´s wich sound bad,normally i search for bands with guitars ,bass and drums,but it´s not the only kind of music that i listen to ,i just remenbered the U2 lp "boy"that i was used to listen to it´s record version when listening to the cd i was amazed how incredible bad it sounds and i´m not a fan of this band ,this are only examples,regards
The thing MOST people do not realize when they toss their vinyl in preference to CD's is that CD's cannot reproduce a thing called "harmonics". That is why CD''s sound so "sterile". Harmonics are found in that area of the sound between the 1's and 0's of a digital recording. Without that area being reproduced the sound quality is just not there. CD's are now getting the same treatment from streaming audio that they gave to vinyl records. Many stores no longer sell CD's or the blanks to record your own anymore. The medium to produce them has also degraded to the point that many CD''s simply won't even play after a while or skip so badly they get tossed in the trash. Thankfully, I saved most of my older vinyl, much of which never made it onto the CD format. I use a lesser known Pioneer PL-112D fully manual belt driven turntable with several different cartridges. It may not pass the audiophile standards of some but for me and what I enjoy from my vinyl the Pioneer does what it was built to do just fine. In the end, it is what YOU enjoy that really counts.
@@richardcline1337 i do keep all my records and only started to buy cd´s after 1993 ,they just cease to sell records,but i still have records that the cd version is incredible bad ,i bought them thinking it would be an upgrade ,several i bought in 93 never heard them ,and i do own a turntable that came with a system from pioneer bought in japan in 1973 but the turntable it´s a bit more modern than the early system´s i saw in canada ,the cartridge was a pc-30 and the stylus pn-30 with a very good sound ,later i bought a technics sl-3310 with their top cartridge but i took the cartridge from the pioneer and it sounds better than the technics one, normally live lp´s are much better sounding then the cd´s version of it and also rock lp´s loose the sound of guitars ,the system was the es2000 from pioneer either than clean it ,never done nothing and bought a pair of celestion ditton series and it sounded even better,in the 90´s i bought a new complete system from pioneer but still the older keeps working and the new is almost dead ,just remenber i also change the belts on the turntables, but it´s like when i hear a record ,if change to cd the sound is bad no dynamics just flat sound and i bought a high-end player from pioneer,but also bought new speakers from mission and it increasis the sound quality, the loudness on the 90´s amplifier almost doesn´t do nothing but that´s not the problem ,most of the time i don´t use it on, also have a 1970 akai reel to reel that still sounds very good today, my oldest was a dual system then the es2000 from pioneer that already had the effect of surround and 4 channel matrix, regards
Richard Cline strange, yesterday I listened to the beach boys cd. And boy, those harmonics were awesome.
Wait wait wait, there are no harmonics on the beach boys? What about simon and garfunkel. Or the eagles? Do they also don’t have harmonics?
Bastards!
DJDanceClassic, I didn't say "Harmonies", I said "Harmonics".....a totally different subject altogether.
This is a good quality and detailed presentation on turntables from someone who has years of real world experience with this audio format.
Did you just review his review !?😂
Thanks for this really very complete review!!!