Thank you Tom for this great review! Since you disliked the parts that are actually the strengths of the game, we had the gut feeling that you might have played the game with wrong rules by consuming resources when preparing the tricks. This would lead to a false and probably bad gameplay experience. If that is the case, we recommend you to give the game another chance with leaving the resources in your workshop after preparing the tricks. This would allow you to prepare multiple tricks with the same component requirement anytime you like, resulting far more epic shows in the theater. This way you might actually end up liking the game:) Anyway, thanks for giving Trickerion a go and doing this video for the gaming community!:)
just played this game and loved the theme. I know my friend and I played the performance phase incorrectly but I really loved the depth of strategy even in the base game. Even though we did it wrong, a lot of funny "and now here comes optico with his ring trick once again! " audience : "seriously dude rings? let's go to Friday nights show instead Bob and get out of here" adding theatrics really spiced up my love for the theme. I've always wanted a game like this. I'm not even a heavy euro player but it just grabbed me. thanks for my kind of game
+Trickerion - Legends of Illusion The thing is we also misplayed, or rather forgot, one of the rules. At the beginning we forgot (khm, to be precise I forgot it, 'cause I read the rules) to pick a specialist, so we started with only the magician and an assistant. We finished it and enjoyed it, but we felt that something was not right, we couldn't do as many things as we were supposed to. So I guess we played a version 20 play-tests before the final game :)
+Peter Gönci More like 200 hundred playtests ago:D But yes, I think there was a time when we did not start with a specialist:) I'm glad you enjoyed it anyway! Give it another go with the correct rules and you won't disappoint;)
+Trickerion - Legends of Illusion The rule book really didn't go into depth like it should have on a few things. I'd suggest to anyone downloading the file on BGG with the rewrite. A much better representation.
We played this game on Friday (just the basic game). We all liked it. Tom can't be expected to like every game. Each to their own. Also, Tom stole my top hat! - Gaming Rules!
We love this game. Plays really well and the advanced game adds so much more to the base game. We had great fun prepping the performances and sneaking our tricks onto other peoples performances. Then, when we actually performed the illusions we announced each one in a grand magician kind of a way, It felt really cool! The Dark Alley is a great compliment to an already very strong game. It is a shame that you didn't like it Tom, but it is not for everybody! If you like a solid, medium/heavy euro with loads of moving parts; check it out!
I apologize, I played the resources incorrectly. They do not go away. I've played it correctly, and while that made that part of the game "slightly" better, everything else still stands, and I still don't enjoy the game.
It's unfortunate that Tom didn't like this game, since I feel that it has both excellent mechanics and a very strong theme. This game gets two wands up from me!!!
"Trickerion" is by far the best boardgame i ever played even if I normaly dont play workerplacement euros. Strangely enough I liked "Trickerion" the most for exactly the same reasons that Tom mentioned to be the reasons why he disliked the game. I got the strong fealing Tom didnt get what the game was about at all and i really disliked this review for reviewing the game in an unfair and unprofessional way. Fortunately Tom did make a second video where he set his opinion in another light where he told that he dont think the game is bad but that it doesnt fit his personal taste. He told that he played the rules wrong and even apologized for this video. So everything is fine for me again right now. This game is really an absolute jewel of creativity, a masterpiece art and very well designed deep and clever mechanics! For this it really deserves better than this!
I think the tile-laying aspect when putting your tricks on the perfomance cards reflects the thoughtfulness when putting together a great magic show: You don't just string together tricks A, B and C randomly, you have to carefully select and combine the tricks in the right way to create the best show you can and get the most rewards out of it. And I also do think that you might have played the ressource-management part by the wrong rules: You don't have to spend ressources to prepare a trick, you just have to have them. You need to spend some thought into what tricks you want to learn so that you'll have to purchase as few ressources as possible. But then you won't have to spend that much effort and actionpoints visiting the market row. Even though I only played it two times up until now I really like Tirckerion very much! I love the theme, I love the mechanics, I love how it fits all together. You really should give it another try, Tom! :-)
exactly. some of the rules were unclear but "punched and played" has a great rules overview which helped. Thematically it makes a lot of sense and rewards you to be thoughtful. Its a little AP but we did okay.
It is too bad you didn't like this game too much Tom, since this is a game with a great theme and seeing how you normally gravitate towards games with theme. I had a chance to play this at GenCon and fell in love with it. The game is oozing with theme and tons of options to play. It is a heavier game for sure, but this will be my go to heavy game for quite a while. Thanks for posting your review!
Thanks for the honest review! I think you hit a lot of the points we seen as well, and while its far from being a bad game, it just didn't quite hit the mark for my group. Being this is a KS game, I fully expect some people to go overboard with their post-purchase rationalization, good game? sure. Great game? well...
I'm not sure why anyone is shocked here - Tom really likes a lot of medium euros, but doesn't seem to enjoy the really heavy, complex ones nearly as much (his Gallerist review was similar, in that he respected the game but it wasn't for him).There's no need to get up in arms because a reviewer's taste in games doesn't exactly match one's own taste in games. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
+Tony Faber Exactly. The key to getting usefulness from a review is to know how much their tastes are similar to yours. If I know that I like heavier games than Tom, and I like the sound of the things he's describing in the game, then I know that I'll probably enjoy it more than him. It doesn't invalidate either his views or my own.
Great review! Glad you phrased it "not for me" instead of "not recommended". The theme seems awesome and those criticisms don't seem so bad. Probably gonna pick this one up! :)
I respect your opinion Tom, but...really ? You complain about the tiles (amongst other things) and give this game a pass, but a "game" like Amphipolis is ok ? Anyway,nothing wrong with not liking something others do and vice versa. Thanks for the review ! I will probably buy this sometime in 2016 !
Why isn't there a link to your UPDATE VIDEO on this review in the description (where you explain that you made a major rule error when playing it before this review)? I couldn't disagree more with your critique of this game (as a heavy euro fan, it's one of the best games that I've ever played). It's so unfortunate that many people might have (and continue to) shy away from it based on this harsh review.
Well, after finding out how Tom disliked Kingdom Builder--one of my favorite games--I have learned to look deeper into the reviews to see where I agree and where I disagree with Tom. I don't begrudge Tom for his opinion. To those who are upset, I say: get another opinion. What are other reviewers saying? Tom is not the end-all-and-be-all, and he knows this. Thank you, Tom, for being honest about your thoughts. (FYI: I backed the game. I've played it once, and I enjoyed it. So, I look forward to playing it again.)
I definitely disagree with this review in every way. I think that the rtheme of the game fits the mechanics so perfectly. You couldn't reskin this to be about building a house or *eye roll* trade routes in the Mediterranean. As someone that is coming to hate euro games strictly due to how little interaction there is between players and how set in stone all the results are, Trickerion is the perfect euro for me.
I agree that the game can feel slow. but i disagree that the shows are boring, my friends and I had a great time putting on the shows with wild gestures and lots of rp and trying to figure out how the vanishing elephant linked into spirit hands. but if your group isnt into that or you dont proform the profomance, it might seem lame. i really enjoy this game. though i love complexity for complexities sake in my games.
So... it occurs to me this game sounds quite similar to Dojo-Kun. You have a vareity of ways to improve yourself, including getting other characters who can get stuff for you to improve with who also have abilities that put a spin on it, and then the bulk of your points come from dedicating your "best guy" (locked as you main character, in this case) to an exhibition. I know to some extent, these are part and parcel to worker placement in general, but it sounds particularly similar to the "Sensei hires students, students get stuff to train students, students train, best students go to tournament for VPs" of Dojo-kun. Anyone out there who has tried both who could confirm/deny? How would you grade them compared to each other if so?
No, Rahdo likes everything Euro, and I simply don't find him objective enough. He is hyperbolic about games that don't feature confrontation/player interaction. I wanted to like this game, but it is overwrought, clunky, and should have been streamlined a lot more! Beautiful production. Mediocre game.
Shakespeare is incredibly thematic. It is true we would have never seen all of Shakespeare's characters in one play, beyond that everything else lends itself to the theme of preparing for a stage production. It isn't pasted on at all. You go to your costumer to improve your constumes. You go to your stage builder to improve your staging. Etc. How is that NOT thematic?
That's the case of subjective perception. You want it to feel thematic, you imagine that you improve your stage, etc. I mostly see cubes pushing (figuratively speaking) disguised behind the theater setting. At least it feels on the same level as Trickerion. That's why i asked this question.
Thank you Tom for this great review!
Since you disliked the parts that are actually the strengths of the game, we had the gut feeling that you might have played the game with wrong rules by consuming resources when preparing the tricks. This would lead to a false and probably bad gameplay experience. If that is the case, we recommend you to give the game another chance with leaving the resources in your workshop after preparing the tricks. This would allow you to prepare multiple tricks with the same component requirement anytime you like, resulting far more epic shows in the theater. This way you might actually end up liking the game:)
Anyway, thanks for giving Trickerion a go and doing this video for the gaming community!:)
just played this game and loved the theme. I know my friend and I played the performance phase incorrectly but I really loved the depth of strategy even in the base game. Even though we did it wrong, a lot of funny "and now here comes optico with his ring trick once again! " audience : "seriously dude rings? let's go to Friday nights show instead Bob and get out of here" adding theatrics really spiced up my love for the theme. I've always wanted a game like this. I'm not even a heavy euro player but it just grabbed me. thanks for my kind of game
+Trickerion - Legends of Illusion The thing is we also misplayed, or rather forgot, one of the rules. At the beginning we forgot (khm, to be precise I forgot it, 'cause I read the rules) to pick a specialist, so we started with only the magician and an assistant. We finished it and enjoyed it, but we felt that something was not right, we couldn't do as many things as we were supposed to. So I guess we played a version 20 play-tests before the final game :)
+Peter Gönci More like 200 hundred playtests ago:D But yes, I think there was a time when we did not start with a specialist:) I'm glad you enjoyed it anyway! Give it another go with the correct rules and you won't disappoint;)
+Trickerion - Legends of Illusion The rule book really didn't go into depth like it should have on a few things. I'd suggest to anyone downloading the file on BGG with the rewrite. A much better representation.
We played this game on Friday (just the basic game). We all liked it. Tom can't be expected to like every game. Each to their own. Also, Tom stole my top hat! - Gaming Rules!
We love this game. Plays really well and the advanced game adds so much more to the base game. We had great fun prepping the performances and sneaking our tricks onto other peoples performances. Then, when we actually performed the illusions we announced each one in a grand magician kind of a way, It felt really cool!
The Dark Alley is a great compliment to an already very strong game. It is a shame that you didn't like it Tom, but it is not for everybody! If you like a solid, medium/heavy euro with loads of moving parts; check it out!
I apologize, I played the resources incorrectly. They do not go away. I've played it correctly, and while that made that part of the game "slightly" better, everything else still stands, and I still don't enjoy the game.
+The Dice Tower OH NO YOU DISLIKED A GAME I DID LIKE AND THAT COMPLETELY INVALIDATES EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER DONE
+The Dice Tower
That's a pity, but I'm glad you gave it another try.
It's unfortunate that Tom didn't like this game, since I feel that it has both excellent mechanics and a very strong theme. This game gets two wands up from me!!!
"Trickerion" is by far the best boardgame i ever played even if I normaly dont play workerplacement euros.
Strangely enough I liked "Trickerion" the most for exactly the same reasons that Tom mentioned to be the reasons why he disliked the game. I got the strong fealing Tom didnt get what the game was about at all and i really disliked this review for reviewing the game in an unfair and unprofessional way. Fortunately Tom did make a second video where he set his opinion in another light where he told that he dont think the game is bad but that it doesnt fit his personal taste. He told that he played the rules wrong and even apologized for this video. So everything is fine for me again right now.
This game is really an absolute jewel of creativity, a masterpiece art and very well designed deep and clever mechanics! For this it really deserves better than this!
I think the tile-laying aspect when putting your tricks on the perfomance cards reflects the thoughtfulness when putting together a great magic show: You don't just string together tricks A, B and C randomly, you have to carefully select and combine the tricks in the right way to create the best show you can and get the most rewards out of it.
And I also do think that you might have played the ressource-management part by the wrong rules: You don't have to spend ressources to prepare a trick, you just have to have them. You need to spend some thought into what tricks you want to learn so that you'll have to purchase as few ressources as possible. But then you won't have to spend that much effort and actionpoints visiting the market row.
Even though I only played it two times up until now I really like Tirckerion very much! I love the theme, I love the mechanics, I love how it fits all together.
You really should give it another try, Tom! :-)
exactly. some of the rules were unclear but "punched and played" has a great rules overview which helped. Thematically it makes a lot of sense and rewards you to be thoughtful. Its a little AP but we did okay.
It is too bad you didn't like this game too much Tom, since this is a game with a great theme and seeing how you normally gravitate towards games with theme. I had a chance to play this at GenCon and fell in love with it. The game is oozing with theme and tons of options to play. It is a heavier game for sure, but this will be my go to heavy game for quite a while. Thanks for posting your review!
Thanks for the honest review! I think you hit a lot of the points we seen as well, and while its far from being a bad game, it just didn't quite hit the mark for my group. Being this is a KS game, I fully expect some people to go overboard with their post-purchase rationalization, good game? sure. Great game? well...
I'm not sure why anyone is shocked here - Tom really likes a lot of medium euros, but doesn't seem to enjoy the really heavy, complex ones nearly as much (his Gallerist review was similar, in that he respected the game but it wasn't for him).There's no need to get up in arms because a reviewer's taste in games doesn't exactly match one's own taste in games. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
+Tony Faber Exactly. The key to getting usefulness from a review is to know how much their tastes are similar to yours. If I know that I like heavier games than Tom, and I like the sound of the things he's describing in the game, then I know that I'll probably enjoy it more than him. It doesn't invalidate either his views or my own.
Great review! Glad you phrased it "not for me" instead of "not recommended". The theme seems awesome and those criticisms don't seem so bad. Probably gonna pick this one up! :)
I think this game is very original with a strong theme. Respect you Vasel but disagree with your review.
I respect your opinion Tom, but...really ? You complain about the tiles (amongst other things) and give this game a pass, but a "game" like Amphipolis is ok ? Anyway,nothing wrong with not liking something others do and vice versa. Thanks for the review ! I will probably buy this sometime in 2016 !
I really like the theme and the style
Why isn't there a link to your UPDATE VIDEO on this review in the description (where you explain that you made a major rule error when playing it before this review)? I couldn't disagree more with your critique of this game (as a heavy euro fan, it's one of the best games that I've ever played). It's so unfortunate that many people might have (and continue to) shy away from it based on this harsh review.
Well, after finding out how Tom disliked Kingdom Builder--one of my favorite games--I have learned to look deeper into the reviews to see where I agree and where I disagree with Tom. I don't begrudge Tom for his opinion. To those who are upset, I say: get another opinion. What are other reviewers saying? Tom is not the end-all-and-be-all, and he knows this. Thank you, Tom, for being honest about your thoughts.
(FYI: I backed the game. I've played it once, and I enjoyed it. So, I look forward to playing it again.)
I definitely disagree with this review in every way. I think that the rtheme of the game fits the mechanics so perfectly. You couldn't reskin this to be about building a house or *eye roll* trade routes in the Mediterranean. As someone that is coming to hate euro games strictly due to how little interaction there is between players and how set in stone all the results are, Trickerion is the perfect euro for me.
I agree that the game can feel slow. but i disagree that the shows are boring, my friends and I had a great time putting on the shows with wild gestures and lots of rp and trying to figure out how the vanishing elephant linked into spirit hands. but if your group isnt into that or you dont proform the profomance, it might seem lame. i really enjoy this game. though i love complexity for complexities sake in my games.
Illusion, Tom, Illusion: a trick is what an inappropriate person does for money.... or candy.
lol
Did you expect to actually perform magic tricks at there end of the game?
So... it occurs to me this game sounds quite similar to Dojo-Kun. You have a vareity of ways to improve yourself, including getting other characters who can get stuff for you to improve with who also have abilities that put a spin on it, and then the bulk of your points come from dedicating your "best guy" (locked as you main character, in this case) to an exhibition. I know to some extent, these are part and parcel to worker placement in general, but it sounds particularly similar to the "Sensei hires students, students get stuff to train students, students train, best students go to tournament for VPs" of Dojo-kun.
Anyone out there who has tried both who could confirm/deny? How would you grade them compared to each other if so?
Go watch the Rahdo review. It's spot-on!
Yeah but how many rules does HE get wrong? Rahdo is becoming just as bad.
No, Rahdo likes everything Euro, and I simply don't find him objective enough. He is hyperbolic about games that don't feature confrontation/player interaction. I wanted to like this game, but it is overwrought, clunky, and should have been streamlined a lot more! Beautiful production. Mediocre game.
Hm, how is theme different in this compared to Shakespeare? Seemed as dry and pasted as here, yet Shakespeare is for some reason highely thematic..
+wr00t Good question. Probably because turns are much faster, and (in my opinion) the artwork is more thematic.
I see. I guess for me it has to be more than artwork.
Shakespeare is incredibly thematic. It is true we would have never seen all of Shakespeare's characters in one play, beyond that everything else lends itself to the theme of preparing for a stage production. It isn't pasted on at all. You go to your costumer to improve your constumes. You go to your stage builder to improve your staging. Etc. How is that NOT thematic?
That's the case of subjective perception. You want it to feel thematic, you imagine that you improve your stage, etc. I mostly see cubes pushing (figuratively speaking) disguised behind the theater setting. At least it feels on the same level as Trickerion. That's why i asked this question.
Abstract magic blended with strong euro mechanics resulting in point salads. How could they go wrong....
I saw this being played today at my game club and it took over 6 hours. Seems like a good concept buy poorley executed
Look out. The forum defense force has been deployed.
This game is a fucking masterpiece
Attack of the Fanclones
+Eyal Itsik Are you referring to the fans of the Dice Tower or the fans of this game. I find both problematic...
This is another one of those KS games that turned out to be not great.
+anxietydown Speak for yourself. This is the best KS game I have backed and for that matter, seen lmao