Can Copper Weld into Steel Damascus?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Head to squarespace.com... to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code FORGE.
OUR PRODUCTS: alecsteeleco.com/
INSTAGRAM: / alecsteele
ALECSTEELECO TH-cam: bit.ly/alecstee...
ALECSTEELECO INSTAGRAM: / alecsteeleco
LEARN BLACKSMITHING ONLINE: beginblacksmith...
PATREON: / alecsteele
Instagrams:
Alec: @alecsteele
Jamie Videographer Extraordinaire: @jamie.popple
My name is Alec Steele and I am a 24 year old blacksmith. We make videos about making interesting things, learning about craft and appreciating the joy of creativity. Great to have you here following along!
If you want to get into blacksmithing or knifemaking, check out our Montana based online store where we stock a range of great metalworking equipment for these crafts as well as our work-wear line and other products: alecsteeleco.com/
Thank you for watching!
Alec
/ alecsteele
INSTAGRAM @alecsteele
FACEBOOK PAGE / alecsteeleblacksmith
MUSIC:
Epidemic Sound - goo.gl/iThmfx
-signing up at this link supports the show!
SoundStripe soundstripe.com?fpr=alec84
- signing up at this link supports the show!
MUSIC - goo.gl/iThmfx signing up at this link supports the show!
------------------------------------------------
AMAZON AFFILIATE LINKS TO GEAR I LIKE, buying here supports us:
--------------
CAMERA + MAIN LENS: amzn.to/2CrLyYP
WIDE LENS: amzn.to/2CsAZou
TRIPOD: amzn.to/2GpBX7f
MIC: amzn.to/2CrBmiQ
SD CARD: amzn.to/2sF0i7g
COMPUTER: amzn.to/2C4i0oo
Alec Steele Blacksmith 2022
it's brazing - technically once you make your steel boat, so long as the opening is at the top, you can fully melt the copper and let it cool. The copper as a liquid will fill every crevice and void without the need to hit it (so use copper shims in the final thickness you want from the start). You can also make patterns in the copper by gouging the steel before melting it in place (giving you lines or waves of copper).
After reading this, I no longer feel the need to watch the video 😂
After reading this I realized I'm subscribed to Tyrell Knife Works. This process isn't new, it's been done.
@@gatekeeper5418 But it's not about being a new process, it's about Alec exploring something that is new to him.
I feel it's similar to 80's horror movies. Different iterations and representation of a similar concept. But everyone loves those cheesy ass movies 😆
@@gatekeeper5418 this would technically be a version of modern mokume gane and since it uses the original process to create mokme gane (forging a hot billet of dissimilar metals into a laminate using hammers and a non temperature controlled furnace) the process is well out of copyrightable phase thus literally anyone can do this. (current copyright law only protects the life of the orginal inventor plus 70 years(thank disney co for this LUL), as the process used to make this is the mokume gane process it's not uniqe or original to Tyrell Knife Works and thus only subject to the original copyright which would for copper-steel bonding actually belong to Tiffany co if anyone from the modern era from their experiments in the 1870's which are also out of copyright and yes one of the attempted laminates was steel to copper which succeeded) any and all copyright or originality claims towards mokume gane have failed in the modern court system and most companies try to trick people into settling out of court. side note this is also why Alec was able to try to make titanium damascus without worrying about getting sued as he was using traditional methods to do so(which are also ancient in origin and thus public domain.)
Technically soldering. Brazing requires the use of brass based alloys on dissimilar metals. It’s a sub division of soldering.
I've seen a few of these non-ferrous metal damascus videos, and something I have not seen, is attempting to increase the melt temperature of the copper, by alloying it first. IIRC Chromium+ Niobium can increase the melt temperature of the copper, and it might not lose it's coppery luster.
I ... don't think you need much maybe 5% by weight of each? But... like I'm no metallurgist, so... YMMV!
(Might be something worth looking up.)
If you alloy the copper with Chromium and Niobium it no longer would be copper. It would be a Bronze or brass like compound. I’m not a professional but I have taken some college courses in metallurgy.
@@tjboylan20 well, I'm fairly certain bronze and brass are specific copper alloys, and as such you could only call what OP mentioned a copper alloy, or potentially a different name if it has a specific one.
ive used cupronickel to good effect. it has been my go to choice since about 2019
SuccesFully alloy it with ~10% silver and ~3% palladium and you got silver palladium copper which melts at ~1430°c and will annihilate your savings if you buy more than some grams
I meant ~30% palladium....
Alec I dare you to make a sword without any power tools
OMGGG YESSS🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
That's definitely what I'm interested in seeing.
Nice to see you again.
Anyone keeping track of this request?
Relatively easy for Alec to knock up I bet but would be a good videl
He did it four years ago with his 8 part "Back to Basics" series, though that was just a small knife.
With the Dark Steele Color and the Copper "vein" it would be a perfect knife, if you put a Handle out of Some sort of Dark Wood on it it would look awesome
Vein; that's it! Now do it with gold!
@@DrewskisBrews the poor man’s gold is brass I’ll try it with brass
Let's see a bog oak dagger
@@tjboylan20 see
Ok
That would make for a great watch dial. No strength needed, all visual splendor.
There have been a fair few of copper dial watches, but I don't know of any with this combo. They did a few with damascus in the bracelets, but not ina dial. Could be a winner!
Quick answer: yes.
Copper is a problem contaminant in steel recycling because it's virtually impossible to separate once its been incorporated. Copper in steel generally follows Hume Rotheroy rules which strongly suggests the ability to form solid solutions. Unfortunately, the peoperties of Copper in steel tend to be undesirable. Nickle is similar, but gives better corrosion properties than copper without sacraficing microstructural integrity as much.
You'll need to be wary of the fact that martinsitic phases can't be generated in nonferrous alloys, so any form of heating will soften the supplemental metal. To retain blade strength it may be best to peen the edge instead of relying exclusively on heat treating.
One incredible idea I heard for the mix of Mokume-Gane (multiple different non-ferrous metals forged together like damascus) with steel was to make a knife or sword with a steel edge embedded into a Mokume-Gane jacket. You can then grind and etch them so that it looks like the steel is emerging from a wood grain or any other pattern. SUPER pretty
Bit of a misnomer here any dissimilar metals forged together qualify as mokume gane adding ferrous metals just makes modern mokume gane instead of ancient. Technically the laminating technique used to make katanas back in the day would also qualify as low(core) and high(edge) carbon steel are dissimilar. It's the entire reason that a patent on "damascus" steel forging techniques is indefensible and cannot be used in us courts due to the technique already existing.
I think what you'd like in more precise terms is traditional nickle/copper mokume backing on a blade steel edge and that's very doable but also VERY expensive. The blade steel would already have to be mostly drawn out same with the traditional mokume backing preferably via the standard rolling technique. Both heated and plenty of low temp copper safe flux used to fuse the spine on. I think this would make for an interesting project piece for the record.
6:21 That's exactly what I was afraid would happen. That molten copper squirting across the shop is extremely dangerous. But I guess you can't make anything cool with some third degree burns...
The videos have gotten so short would like to see some longer bigger projects these videos are awesome
How does it feel to be home buddy. In your shop, with all your tools, and memories. I'm so glad you're back, I hope you guys stay. We miss your videos in this shop
If you need inspiration, check out Dennis on the Tyrell Knifeworks channel or Baker forge and tool are rocking it. They use the copper that has a crimson hue. They call it tiger Damascus it think
Happy to see you back in Montana Alec. Hope all is going well after I am sure a long plane trip and drive back to your greatest shop. I started watching your channel when you were still on Barker street. And Sam was helping you do videos. The Montana shop is definitely the most impressive.
All the successful copper Damascus I’ve seen has been done by forging the steel to size, completely sealing in the copper with welds/sheet metal and ground to shape.
Seeing you in your Texas shop gives my joy to no end. Glad your back, hope to see all the new things you have up your sleeves.
His shop is in Montana...
I would love to see bowie knife, a short Japanese knife that can be carried. Also a canister Damascus made from octagonal stock and copper.
Awesome video guys! I appreciate the shout out. That stuff can definitely be tricky!
So great seeing Alec home. Hopefully it’s for a while, but we will see.
A handguard for a sword or a dagger with that piece would look gorgeous.
So in a former life we used explosively welded stainless steel and copper to make heat exchangers…
you pack the billets of stainless and copper in high explosive and set it off and the high pressures fuses the dissimilar metals together.
The bond was tight enough to be leak tight to superfluid helium.
I wonder if that method would work with mokuTi or titanum mokumegane I'd immagine there's plenty of pressure and no atmosphere to oxidize the titanium rapidly and from an engineering perspective should work provided the explosive operated at sufficient pressures rapidly enough.
Quick google search found a supplier doing titanium clad steel made by explosive welding.
Course it’s not really the same as a Damascus like process..
It’s a cool process though and it helped us eliminate a tricky joint (if I remember correctly - it was a while ago now)
Cody's Lab did this
I happen to work in a factory that produces heat exchangers and we do the exact same thing but without explosions lol
coaster for drinks it just looks so cool having two opposite metals forge in one it really has a nice color contrast
Cool idea of twisting it. Ive never thought of trying that. Ive had a few successful tries using it in Go Mais. All you have to do is make sure the weld is air tight all the way around and forging it out. Then do a stock removal. Good luck.
I need to see Will & Sam next to each other. Close your eyes and they sound the same.
The steel jackets seemed like a pretty sweet idea. Maybe going for a full canister damascus could be cool.
youd likely get molten copper squorting out of a crack, right in someones face
I would like to order a steel jacket in size 15 neck. Medium, slim and short.
this is a fantastic Idea just need to watch where the hole in the canister is drilled so as not to point it at the smith or anything important LOL. I've seen pretty good results from can damascus using copper as one of the materials so I'm looking forward to it If alec is willing to try.
@@HunterThinker would you like 3/4, 1/2 or full sleeve?
It is very cool when done properly but neither one of them did look up cumascus
I've seen some people make knives with copper infused Damascus. The trick is you can't really forge out a knife shape because the copper will just melt and move on you. So if you're gonna do a knife, it has to be done with the stock removal method.
You should do a dagger of some sort with the copper infused damascus
Alec, You had the right thought when you referred to the copper as "Adhesive" because the melting temp is so much lower than steel the best you are going to get is LAYERS of steel adhered to LAYERS of copper which if done artistically is very cool.
The Ideal Temperature for forging CU Mai (Copper Damascus) is under 1800 F give, just barely red. I'd like to see you turn the billet into a Harpoon Point Hunting Knife with a Hidden Tang, or perhaps a Bowie if you have enough material to make one.
It's summer time, time to forge up some new grilling empliments
So good to see him back in the workshop
I have made two knives out of Cu- Mai and currently working on my third, the best way I have found is to weld all the way around and keep the forge below 1800 F
sweet! Do you sell your knives!? I'd love to buy a smaller copper infused Damascus knife for field dressing deer.
@@strikeforcek9149 did you have any luck mate?
@@dragonwing4ever nope, no luck or response. Lol
I'm still super interested in a custom piece for field dressing deer though, haha.
@@strikeforcek9149 thought i replied to this already but who knows, i might be able to help you out there mate
@@dragonwing4ever awesome! Do you have an email or something I can contact you through?
Look up squirrel cage motor, it has copper cast into silicon steel plates as a rotor. Might make interesting looking damascus.
For anyone wondering, It works by synchronizing to a rotating magnetic field by rotating itself.
We NEED a Steel vs. Stelter for this!!! Gotta make a sword-breaker with it too!!
Will *Sword-Breaker* Stelter.
I just watched that series for the 5th time in 3 years the other day. I felt so bad for Will when it snapped.
Ever since i saw this on another channel I have been wanting to see you try it. Cant wait to see what you come up with!
Hey alec what about milling groove between steel an drop the copper inside the groove.. then weld together so the copper cannot burst so easily out
I love seeing Alec back in the Montana shop.
Tog make kitchen knives that have a vein of copper running through the blades. They look fantastic, though are far from cheap enough for the "average consumer" IMO.
Alec I dare you to make every type of Damascus with high copper steel that they use for bridges
The Japanese have been doing Mokume-gane for centuries using all sorts of mixed metals. I had a nickel/copper Mokume-gane ring I lost years ago. Loved the pattern. Huge respect for all the skill and hard work these folks put into their trade. Great video.
A burl wood handled hunting/skinning knife with a gut hook done from this infusion would be amazing.
Matching karambits would be simply stunning with that copper in there.
Speaking of Damascus: Have you ever considered making Wootz? That is, the original, not pattern welded stuff?
They tried but since they used a power hammer to try and combine the I can't remember what it's called the bloom to consolidate the bloom it instead crumbled into dust. I should have been using something like a wooden stump and light taps from a hammer a sledgehammer to consolidate it.
@@AdmiralStoicRum That is not Wootz
@@thedausthed omg i had a brain fart!
Lol
Its a crucible thing lol my bad
If sticking with a forge welding type process, maybe use very pieces of steel with relatively thick layers of copper, so when forging down to final thickness you will mainly just squeeze out copper and end up with layers close to similar thickness.
never been this early
You'll want to work it at a much lower temperature I think, or at least *by hand* because the power hammer hits it too hard across the entire surface. Whatever you do the copper will still move more than the steel, but if you're moving less at once you might be able to deal with it and avoid squirting molten copper across the shop while you shape the piece. Definitely no more folding or twisting, but a mild curve or wavy pattern may be possible. Alternatively, you could go straight to the grinder and make a really cool-looking paperweight or shelf piece, or even use it as the handle for a sword or dagger. Maybe a letter opener?
What would 1 million layers of copper-steel damascus look like? That would be crazy!
It would probably just look like one color because the layers were so thin if it were even possible but they squeeze a bit of copper out on every heat. Probably not as impressive as you'd think.
It wouldn't be impressive.
Evan and Katelyn did a ~1mil layer experience with rainbow plasticine.
It turned to "brown" at about half way through their restacks. Iirc, looked its best around the 25000 layer restack.
to reduce the odds of separation when force is applied (torsion being among the more extreme kinds of force you could try lol) it could help to keep the billet in the forge for an extended period of time. given the pretty high degree of solubility of copper in steel, the longer time window should result in greater diffusion and therefore better alloying in the boundary regions, providing a stronger bond than just mechanically smushing the layers together
Great video guys glad too see your back on this side of the pond. Keep up the amazing work
its great to have you back in the states.
Man it took me a minute to get used to seeing the old shop in Britain and now I have to get used to the Montana shop again
That seems like the perfect material to do raindrop damascus.
Copper will fuse well with nickel, and nickel will fuse well with iron. I'd like to see that layer stack-order, and forged at barely more than a cherry red heat.
The relative stiffnesses of metals is not linear with temperature. Using a lower temperature will mean that copper, nickel, and iron will be closer to each other in stiffness (creep coefficients are key here) so you won't end up with particular layers squishing way more than others.
I've done coppermai a few times, you are heating the billet too quickly and the absolute trick is not to use the forge, use the tempering oven as your forge. Set the tempering ovens you have to 950-1000 degrees C, just below melting point of copper, and that way you guarantee the perfect forging/welding temperature. It prevents molten copper spray, and means you get super consistent bonding. also, you can do two billets at once and as one heats up you forge the other. Because of the temperature control you cant overcook the billet. Sure, the tempering oven is slower to heat the billet, but if you are doing two at once its not a big deal.
Make a Zulu Iklwa spear. The whole copper Damascus thing works best as Gomai. Steel, copper, steel, copper, steel. Keep the heat at 1980f and weld all the seams closed. You don’t need a peak hole if the temp is correct. You are basically brazing with the copper. If your copper layer squishes away from the steel, you will get cold shuts from the steel on steel since it was not forged at welding temp.
That was sooo cool! I just moved back from Whitefish to Washington.
Could you do a video experiment where you pulverize diamonds into dust and mix them with a high carbon steel either by making the steel molten and dumping the diamond dust in or by getting it very hot and then folding in the diamond dust repeatedly. Then use the diamond steel as the center of a San Mai billet and for the outside layer use regular damascus. Make a murasamune with it or any type of Japanese samurai swords will work too.
A damascus steel/copper employee of the month award for Sam. Or a nice name tag for that cute doggy.
These videos helped me get excited about working with metal again :)
Im glad your back in the US of A's!! Hope you enjoy it
He probably just came in for blade show this weekend
Alex at Valhalla Ironworks has some great info on making cumai with this kind of copper sandwich. IIRC his conclusion was forge the pieces out thin, weld (ok, braze) the copper in then do stock removal from then on. Avoids the exact problem you ran into of squirting molten copper places it shouldn't go when you try to forge or otherwise manipulate the cumai billet
Anything you make out of that will be awesome
A pair of dice would look cool. I also think desk accessories would look good in an office setting and the material would not have to be strong for something like that.
“I don’t want it to be dribbling out, but I want it to be sticky” new T-shirt idea!
@Alec Steele you should make a fire themed blade and add yellow, red and orange gems in the hilt, guard and pommel. Maybe try to san-mai but with more than two layers and add a slightly thicker layer of copper if possible? I am a noob but I imagine if you use more than two layers but have thinner layers to build up the same thickness it still works?
Done this a few times a press has always worked better for me. And yeah getting that metal too hot hitting it with a hammer that copper can shoot out of there like liquid fire. Another thing I've done this seems to help a little bit is drilling some dimples on the inside of the steel that's going to be touching the copper seems to hold the copper in much better. Another fun thing did I started doing before this to see how the copper and metal would react. A stack of quarters we'll forge Weld together and you make some pretty cool little pieces out of it you know the cross little hearts that type of stuff but you rarely get to see how that copper get to that as you would say sticky look. I've never even attempted A twist with it
This was a cool project. Very interesting and so good to be back in Montana 🙌
You could make some beautiful non structural parts like pommels and guards. Perhaps even a hollowed out handle scale? Maybe make decoration bits to use to dress up a scabbard or sheath, and the most obvious, jewelry. You can use them as gems and you can polish them and facet them to that effect.
Let’s take a minute to appreciate how much of a great addition Sam is! I’m really looking forward to seeing you both working together 🙂
I bet you don't remember the first sam :(.
Copper and Steel would be great for a plates on a leather gauntlet. Check out Adam Savages ones for reference.
I learned from an old fellow I use to work with. One of our tasks was hard facing an auger on a trenching machine used to push dirt away from the trench. as you can guess trying to keep and build a straight weld on the edge of a 1/4 screw is a nigh impossible task. well the fix that this gentleman had was using a copper bar. you could form the soft copper to the curve of the auger and you could let your bead flow up against the copper without it welding as long as you Keep the copper cool. If you let it get too hot some of the weld would fuse to the copper.
Hi Alec Sam and Bella. Here are three suggestions on what you can forge
1 A Epsilon Axe
Apa sword
3 celtic Lancea
And if these suggestions are not enough, you can lookup suggestions I sent you during the METEORITE DAMASCUS movie
I would be cool if you did this again with thick copper wire instead of sheets of copper
“I have been bit by my own tics and flees” is a new one for me 😂
I’ve been seeing this done a lot lately. I believe the correct name for it is cu Mai Damascus or cu mascus. I was thinking of using it in a Greek xiphos. Which is a sword design that I think lends itself well to this unique pattern welding technique. But personally, I think you should make a Scottish Dirk out of the billet you have. Should have enough material, and I haven’t seen you make one yet, so that’s my suggestion.
How does it feel being in the Montana shop? I had a job between two locations and it would be some time from one to the other, and I found when I got to the 'new' location, I would feel a bit out of sorts, like I didn't belong there or that I was in the way of everyone. You own the shop so maybe you don't feel that way, but I was wondering if you experienced anything like that going from UK to Montana.
Also make a Damascus Bowie with that copper/Damascus billet
Making a ring out some of the bar would be really cool with the copper vein through the middle.
Make a bunch of those rose petals you made to demonstrate the technique to new students. They's be dope key chains, you can sell em to raise money for a children's hospital or or something. Hell I'd buy one.
Am I the only one to notice in the opening clip, Sam has the EXACT same mannerisms and way of speak as Will??
Tyrrell knifeworks does this frequently. Very beautiful work!
Alec: "Oh no! It's definitely falling apart."
Also Alec: keeps going
It's already ruined by that point, you might as well keep going and get an interesting-looking failure.
@@Mataclysm Fair! I'm not a blacksmith so I have no idea if he could have stopped at a half turn and successfully reforged into a solid billet, maybe he wanted to make the splits more visible for some reason. I'd like to see the twisted one cooled down...
I like Sam. Not just because we have the same name but he's a very cool personality. Would love to see more of him on the channel
I'm pretty sure that mustache sticker is a protector from a nose waxing kit lol
@alecsteele Welcome to the world of copper laminates 🤘🏽
This guy right here is where I get mine!
Hey Alec. Good to see the experiment, even if it is only a partial success. If you ever want to create a ring again, look up Mokume Gane. That technique is the Damascus of jewelry.
The Tyrell knife guy does it best to date!!! Probably should have checked with him instead of the amateur you asked and mentioned Haha You'll never see this or do it but maybe somebody will get some inspiration from it Lol I've been making gun parts out old wrought iron and some Damascus. Antique 22 single shot, replaced the bolt handle. Break action shotgun, replaced a few random parts with wrought iron steel combo. I make holsters for a living some I'm working on a claw made of Damascus, the weight is the only issue haha
I have an unrelated suggestion. Try making Damascus with iron and steel. In ancient Rome or something, they made that kind of steel and you could see the pattern all the way through even without an acid etch. It is now a mystery how the steel was made. Maybe it was iron and steel forgewelded together. You should try that.
Attempt#6
Make a long square dagger with it, like on one of those 13 episode long projects where you take your time and try new techniques out those are the best ones
A guard and pommel would be very cool use for the piece of steel and copper.
I don't know if you have enough for a full sword of the stuff but it could make for an awesome hilt. Then use the copper zinc demascus for the pommel and make the sword out of something else. I'd say try for silver/steel demascus but that's wayyyyy too expensive
My 7yr son and I think a throwing weapon would be cool. Like a tomahawk or dagger.
Mmm steel and copper hot pockets, my favourite lunch.
Tyrellknives does a lot of copper in Damascus it’s mesmerising to watch
But it’s awesome you’re back in Montana & great seeing you creating again
I’d like to see you make something different, like make a watch bracelet, maybe even a case for an old watch
If youre going to BladeShow 2022, i can give you some tips. I should be bringing a bar of Nickelmascus over copper over core with me to show a few people.
Lmk what table youll be working if so.
As a professional arm chair commenter; try container forging the the copper sheets with steel balls (bb size). But honestly, what do I know I’ve never swung a blacksmith’s hammer.
I really wanted this for my wedding ring. No one I contacted said it could be done. Still I got the copper inlayed.
Cool idea
You should make a big lumber chisel with the copper bit towards the end of the blade
You may be able to get a better copper and steel damascus by either alloying the copper completely and by using intermediate alloys with your flux (not completely sure on the second one how much it would help, but it could create boundary conditions more favorable to interactions for fusing rather than just wetting, which will keep things together)
What I've always wondered is how good a sword made with the most modern equipment and knowledge be compared to one made using old techniques and such.
It would be great for more decorative elements like hilts and pommels.