@@N7-SHARK every 5 minutes watching this match I was thinking "why doesn't he just push with everything right now?" 😂😂😂 That's what separates me from the elite players
Hello Shark ! And thanks you for the cast ! 😉 Typically, US Rangers choice US Auto loose ... 😅 Looks for tactics ! WM Side, Avatar. Avatar make 2 very bad choices to close the game and secure the victory at 20-25min : - First one, 14:05 on the clock, Avatar build a second ATGun in same time while he build Brummbar... ATGun x2 ... Why ??? US player have just not connect enough fuel at this time to build a tank. Good option was "+ Grenadier" (more infantries to control the map). - Second one, 18:20 on the clock, 600 Manpower in reserve, Avatar choose to build an MG... Wrong way ... US player have a mortar. Good call was "+ Grenadier (x2) + Brummbar". - At this time, without theses mistakes, WM jump at 7 infantries units on the field + Engineer + 2 Brummbars ... With the US combo, it is just unplayable for Ares. 2 DPS Brummbars stop any infantries, the risk to loose a unit is very high (specially fixed unit), and ATGun cannot stop Brummbar (too heavy armor, 2 shoots to kill a ATGun, Rangers have "no snares" ...). And 7 infantries units, on the field, cover all the map, every time. So you see every time US movement, you fight with 2 vs 1, and you call Brummbar to close the fight. So "No tickets and no fuel for US Side" ... - At 20min, you are close to win, build the second ATGun to help to trap the first US Tank when he try to catch a Brummbar. . US Side, Ares. The "car crash" Rangers choice. - First mistake : Allies are often too confident, and split their units (more effective) early in the game. Finally, half of fuel are not undercontrol on "early game", and the technology will delay. Allied Tech delayed More german units infantries (and/or support) can be built before the countermeasure vehicule => More map control for German Armies. - Second mistake : The fast/early Rangers. Upgrade in Rangers one unit less => less map control, less resources, less informations on the ennemies movements, tech delayed (you cannot tech and use Manpower in same time ...). So this is the reasons why Rangers choice is often a total "car crash". Rangers upgrade is ok, but only if you have already kill "one opponent unit", or if you have take a very good advantage on the "soldiers kills" (+10). If not, you go to pay that vs good german army players. . So, Avatar won the game, very late. But, with better choices, the victory could come soon and easily.🧐
Hey Paul! Thanks for the extra analysis here! I agree that a second brummbar would've been devastating, but it's easy when you can see all Ares has. Plus Ares is a very good player and doesn't make mistakes easily. I think Avatar did a good job of not over committing too early. But yes! Awesome game to watch and lots of learn from!
@@N7-SHARK My thinking about strategy was not based on what I saw in the video, without the fog of war. But, rather, what I would have analyzed if I had been in Avatar’s place. In fact, when I play, I retain the fuel resources that my opponent has connected (or not). And I also associate it with time (the realistic minimum moment when some unity may appear). Time is very important in strategy. In this part, in view of the fuel connections, and the expenses that Ares showed, it was obvious that he absolutely could not have a tank for 20 min: - Not enough connected fuel (low income for 12 min). - Presence of BARS. - ATGun spotted at 13min ( + Manpower + Fuel for T3) - Very high Manpower expenditure for Rangers (+200 for each) + BARS spotted. => So Chaffees or Tank impossible before 20min !!! . During the game, Fuel Income, and what the opponent shows, shows the way forward. In this situation, Avatar’s ability to close the game early was possible. That’s why I explained that the Rangers are often a "car crash". It has nothing about Ares' level player. Just, Ares used them too early and didn’t convert this extreme expenses into map control, fuel control. So ... Some strategies, associated with the collection of resources, prohibit the possibility of using other strategies. When you understand that, you can avoid making "inutle" units on a timing. That doesn’t mean these same units will be "inutile" all the time. But it is better to make the necessary units when needed, and leave the other units for later. With the correct analysis, between minute 14 and minute 18, Avatar should have made 3 Grenadiers, and a second Brummbar. In the end, he ended up with 7 Grenadiers and 1 FalschimJager against 3 Rangers and 1 Fusiliers. The ranger is huge, but only strong in close combat. If the rangers fight at 1 against 2. A grenadier flees, while the 2nd shoots ... Time flies, and the Brummbar has time to come clean. And when the second Brummbar arrives at 18min, the situation becomes impossible to handle for Ares. Ares then has no other choice than: - Continue to push, but with very large casualties, and little chance of securing a central fuel and a star. - Hide at base for 3 min (+ 2 ATGun ), and abandon field. But he doesn’t have many tickets, the fuel to make Hellcats will be missing too, and the frontal armor of the Brummbar is a huge problem. . Look for tactics! Think about what you see when you play! At the chess game, we call it, in my French language (impossible to traduce in english)=> "Les coups d'avance". At the level's players like Ares and Avatar, It can make a huge difference !!!👍
This is how I think you deal with Rangers; 1. MG to lock down position. It extra painful for a Ranger to retreat because its manpower bleed from upkeep and a bigger lost of field presence. 2. Slow the game down, definitely don't go for greedy build that techs quickly go for side tech like Wiebel and Flaks if they are an option. An early vehicle to help survive the early game. Once the game transition into the late game Ranger will naturally struggle for map control, for manpower, and to tech and build late game. 3. Pick off the utility units, scouts, engineer, and captains. This deals with the ranger indirectly since they overall have less map presences if they start having to cap VPs. 4. The main thing to know about Ranger is that anything within 18 unit of distance, half your sight range, 5 second of infantry movement is the Ranger zone, they deal 3.5X damage at 14 compared to 20 units, and 7X at 10 units. Expect them to try to close the distance fight into your formation, falling back hurt you less then normal and its up to Ranger to make something happen or else they will inflict self damage in their unusually high upkeep cost. Matching their movement and giving ground, hard retreat, ensures you can keep map control and limit casualty while the Ranger hurts itself diving too deep and the upkeep. Once the pieces of Advance Infantry begin to fall they have little means to recover. Grenadier are actually the best infantry in WM have to deal with Ranger because of the field healing, this allows the healing of superficial grazing of the long distance Thompson shots to be top off, not to mention you have to run away with Jaegar and PGs anyways. Jaegar have handheld Zooks and Weibel while PG have access to the Flak and 251s which can carry Stoss later or maybe a stummel. Weibel can start wiping the utility and have a decent chance against the light tanks with zooks. Stoss + carrier can pick the ranger from a distance and multiple Stoss can really beat on rangers if you lack the fuel for P4s, and of course the late game tanks. For DAK its the Flak which is basically a omnidirectional MG, 45 range outranging zooks,suppress in one volley, and the Vet 1 ability have a good shot at burning down a Chafee or greyhound even on its own, alongside the PanzerJaegar call in mulitple lights have to be built before rolling out against DAK. Berg are unusual good against ranger because you get more damage at range and can run back quickly with sprint and your Panzerpioneer actually do good covering fire . I think the Weapon Drops + Rangers Training was less of a mistake and more of a off-meta, or perhaps a flex decision from the lack of zooks was what prompted the decision because I am sure the munition are suppose to go to Designated Assaults and Infantry Assaults. Might have been the reason behind the Chafee as well. Most of the drops from the crates actually questionably good, which is why 6 weapons on Ranger is not as great as it sounds. I think you mostly want zooks, flamers, and maybe re specialize a ranger squad into LMG ranger if you get enough of them. You are sad to see BARs and I wouldn't be surprise if they get removed in the future. The problem with Ranger is that I think its really a hard knowledge checks and fighting against them requires you do things differently then what is generally "normal" in CoH, fighting cover to cover, hold off to retreating until the last moments, and upgrading your units. There are instant fails with ranger, like if you turn you Gren into assault Gren, you will be in a world of hurt.
loooots of good stuff here, so i'm going to just double down on one thing you said that i really like. "rangers... are a hard knowledge check and fighting against them requires you to do things differently". this is why i like rangers. they add a totally different playstyle for US - if you lean into them like this, you're locked in to infantry play - and it forces the opponent to react and shift their strategy. this is why the battlegroups make CoH so dynamic, and what makes CoH compelling over and over again.
Hi, i see at the 8:43 mark Ares drops paras and a weapon supply. What's that ability called ? Also later on he merges rifles into para's, can you tell me how that is done/works ? Thanks for the casts, enjoying the format.
Hey! So the ability he's using is the ranger weapon drop. For 100 munitions rangers can call in a weapons crate. It drops two random weapons from four choices: 1919 LMG, BAR, flamethrower, or bazooka. It looks like a para drop with the green smoke but no paratroopers are involved. 😀 Hope this helps!
i am inclined to agree with you... the second scout only makes sense if he knows he's going advanced infantry and prioritizing the artillery observers. he also did build a couple of beacons, so he used that ability... but yeah, a well-placed mine early might have saved him some headaches from that early krad.
Drfinately a missplay seeing a heavy investment into rangers and not going for a stummel. The grenadiers start falling off quickly and at least one or two are better off getting a conversion to PG/jager and keeping one or two for merge and snares
This gameplay is a perfect demonstration of combined arms, which is necessary to counter a stupid blob of an op infantry unit. They just run into the open field and kill everything. There are no skills needed. This unit is killing the basic idea of the game
Yeah, I think it would be better as a late game assault unit, since rifles just don't scale well enough compared to other late game units (at least without ISC upgrades)
What a wild ending🤯🤯🤯 phenomenal match
Oh yeah. As opposed to my games where I get wiped off the map in five minutes lol
@@N7-SHARK every 5 minutes watching this match I was thinking "why doesn't he just push with everything right now?" 😂😂😂 That's what separates me from the elite players
FINISH HIM. and then you lose lol
Hello Shark !
And thanks you for the cast ! 😉
Typically, US Rangers choice US Auto loose ... 😅
Looks for tactics !
WM Side, Avatar. Avatar make 2 very bad choices to close the game and secure the victory at 20-25min :
- First one, 14:05 on the clock, Avatar build a second ATGun in same time while he build Brummbar... ATGun x2 ... Why ??? US player have just not connect enough fuel at this time to build a tank. Good option was "+ Grenadier" (more infantries to control the map).
- Second one, 18:20 on the clock, 600 Manpower in reserve, Avatar choose to build an MG... Wrong way ... US player have a mortar. Good call was "+ Grenadier (x2) + Brummbar".
- At this time, without theses mistakes, WM jump at 7 infantries units on the field + Engineer + 2 Brummbars ... With the US combo, it is just unplayable for Ares. 2 DPS Brummbars stop any infantries, the risk to loose a unit is very high (specially fixed unit), and ATGun cannot stop Brummbar (too heavy armor, 2 shoots to kill a ATGun, Rangers have "no snares" ...). And 7 infantries units, on the field, cover all the map, every time. So you see every time US movement, you fight with 2 vs 1, and you call Brummbar to close the fight. So "No tickets and no fuel for US Side" ...
- At 20min, you are close to win, build the second ATGun to help to trap the first US Tank when he try to catch a Brummbar.
.
US Side, Ares. The "car crash" Rangers choice.
- First mistake : Allies are often too confident, and split their units (more effective) early in the game. Finally, half of fuel are not undercontrol on "early game", and the technology will delay. Allied Tech delayed More german units infantries (and/or support) can be built before the countermeasure vehicule => More map control for German Armies.
- Second mistake : The fast/early Rangers. Upgrade in Rangers one unit less => less map control, less resources, less informations on the ennemies movements, tech delayed (you cannot tech and use Manpower in same time ...). So this is the reasons why Rangers choice is often a total "car crash". Rangers upgrade is ok, but only if you have already kill "one opponent unit", or if you have take a very good advantage on the "soldiers kills" (+10). If not, you go to pay that vs good german army players.
.
So, Avatar won the game, very late. But, with better choices, the victory could come soon and easily.🧐
Hey Paul! Thanks for the extra analysis here!
I agree that a second brummbar would've been devastating, but it's easy when you can see all Ares has. Plus Ares is a very good player and doesn't make mistakes easily. I think Avatar did a good job of not over committing too early.
But yes! Awesome game to watch and lots of learn from!
@@N7-SHARK My thinking about strategy was not based on what I saw in the video, without the fog of war. But, rather, what I would have analyzed if I had been in Avatar’s place.
In fact, when I play, I retain the fuel resources that my opponent has connected (or not). And I also associate it with time (the realistic minimum moment when some unity may appear). Time is very important in strategy.
In this part, in view of the fuel connections, and the expenses that Ares showed, it was obvious that he absolutely could not have a tank for 20 min:
- Not enough connected fuel (low income for 12 min).
- Presence of BARS.
- ATGun spotted at 13min ( + Manpower + Fuel for T3)
- Very high Manpower expenditure for Rangers (+200 for each) + BARS spotted.
=> So Chaffees or Tank impossible before 20min !!!
.
During the game, Fuel Income, and what the opponent shows, shows the way forward. In this situation, Avatar’s ability to close the game early was possible.
That’s why I explained that the Rangers are often a "car crash". It has nothing about Ares' level player. Just, Ares used them too early and didn’t convert this extreme expenses into map control, fuel control. So ...
Some strategies, associated with the collection of resources, prohibit the possibility of using other strategies. When you understand that, you can avoid making "inutle" units on a timing.
That doesn’t mean these same units will be "inutile" all the time. But it is better to make the necessary units when needed, and leave the other units for later.
With the correct analysis, between minute 14 and minute 18, Avatar should have made 3 Grenadiers, and a second Brummbar.
In the end, he ended up with 7 Grenadiers and 1 FalschimJager against 3 Rangers and 1 Fusiliers.
The ranger is huge, but only strong in close combat. If the rangers fight at 1 against 2. A grenadier flees, while the 2nd shoots ... Time flies, and the Brummbar has time to come clean. And when the second Brummbar arrives at 18min, the situation becomes impossible to handle for Ares. Ares then has no other choice than:
- Continue to push, but with very large casualties, and little chance of securing a central fuel and a star.
- Hide at base for 3 min (+ 2 ATGun ), and abandon field. But he doesn’t have many tickets, the fuel to make Hellcats will be missing too, and the frontal armor of the Brummbar is a huge problem.
.
Look for tactics! Think about what you see when you play! At the chess game, we call it, in my French language (impossible to traduce in english)=> "Les coups d'avance".
At the level's players like Ares and Avatar, It can make a huge difference !!!👍
This is how I think you deal with Rangers;
1. MG to lock down position. It extra painful for a Ranger to retreat because its manpower bleed from upkeep and a bigger lost of field presence.
2. Slow the game down, definitely don't go for greedy build that techs quickly go for side tech like Wiebel and Flaks if they are an option. An early vehicle to help survive the early game. Once the game transition into the late game Ranger will naturally struggle for map control, for manpower, and to tech and build late game.
3. Pick off the utility units, scouts, engineer, and captains. This deals with the ranger indirectly since they overall have less map presences if they start having to cap VPs.
4. The main thing to know about Ranger is that anything within 18 unit of distance, half your sight range, 5 second of infantry movement is the Ranger zone, they deal 3.5X damage at 14 compared to 20 units, and 7X at 10 units. Expect them to try to close the distance fight into your formation, falling back hurt you less then normal and its up to Ranger to make something happen or else they will inflict self damage in their unusually high upkeep cost. Matching their movement and giving ground, hard retreat, ensures you can keep map control and limit casualty while the Ranger hurts itself diving too deep and the upkeep. Once the pieces of Advance Infantry begin to fall they have little means to recover.
Grenadier are actually the best infantry in WM have to deal with Ranger because of the field healing, this allows the healing of superficial grazing of the long distance Thompson shots to be top off, not to mention you have to run away with Jaegar and PGs anyways. Jaegar have handheld Zooks and Weibel while PG have access to the Flak and 251s which can carry Stoss later or maybe a stummel. Weibel can start wiping the utility and have a decent chance against the light tanks with zooks. Stoss + carrier can pick the ranger from a distance and multiple Stoss can really beat on rangers if you lack the fuel for P4s, and of course the late game tanks. For DAK its the Flak which is basically a omnidirectional MG, 45 range outranging zooks,suppress in one volley, and the Vet 1 ability have a good shot at burning down a Chafee or greyhound even on its own, alongside the PanzerJaegar call in mulitple lights have to be built before rolling out against DAK. Berg are unusual good against ranger because you get more damage at range and can run back quickly with sprint and your Panzerpioneer actually do good covering fire .
I think the Weapon Drops + Rangers Training was less of a mistake and more of a off-meta, or perhaps a flex decision from the lack of zooks was what prompted the decision because I am sure the munition are suppose to go to Designated Assaults and Infantry Assaults. Might have been the reason behind the Chafee as well. Most of the drops from the crates actually questionably good, which is why 6 weapons on Ranger is not as great as it sounds. I think you mostly want zooks, flamers, and maybe re specialize a ranger squad into LMG ranger if you get enough of them. You are sad to see BARs and I wouldn't be surprise if they get removed in the future.
The problem with Ranger is that I think its really a hard knowledge checks and fighting against them requires you do things differently then what is generally "normal" in CoH, fighting cover to cover, hold off to retreating until the last moments, and upgrading your units. There are instant fails with ranger, like if you turn you Gren into assault Gren, you will be in a world of hurt.
loooots of good stuff here, so i'm going to just double down on one thing you said that i really like.
"rangers... are a hard knowledge check and fighting against them requires you to do things differently". this is why i like rangers. they add a totally different playstyle for US - if you lean into them like this, you're locked in to infantry play - and it forces the opponent to react and shift their strategy. this is why the battlegroups make CoH so dynamic, and what makes CoH compelling over and over again.
ranger are overpower hands down
Hi, i see at the 8:43 mark Ares drops paras and a weapon supply. What's that ability called ? Also later on he merges rifles into para's, can you tell me how that is done/works ? Thanks for the casts, enjoying the format.
Hey! So the ability he's using is the ranger weapon drop. For 100 munitions rangers can call in a weapons crate. It drops two random weapons from four choices: 1919 LMG, BAR, flamethrower, or bazooka.
It looks like a para drop with the green smoke but no paratroopers are involved. 😀
Hope this helps!
I think building an initial engineer instead of a scout would be much more useful to protect your points and possibly kill the ketten
i am inclined to agree with you... the second scout only makes sense if he knows he's going advanced infantry and prioritizing the artillery observers. he also did build a couple of beacons, so he used that ability... but yeah, a well-placed mine early might have saved him some headaches from that early krad.
Drfinately a missplay seeing a heavy investment into rangers and not going for a stummel. The grenadiers start falling off quickly and at least one or two are better off getting a conversion to PG/jager and keeping one or two for merge and snares
Yeah this is a great point. Stummel would've done really well, particularly because Ares didn't get zooks in his weapons drops until later
This gameplay is a perfect demonstration of combined arms, which is necessary to counter a stupid blob of an op infantry unit. They just run into the open field and kill everything. There are no skills needed. This unit is killing the basic idea of the game
Yeah, I think it would be better as a late game assault unit, since rifles just don't scale well enough compared to other late game units (at least without ISC upgrades)