Car Batteries For Solar?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Most of us have been tempted to use a car battery with a solar panel. Is it a good idea or not?
In this video, we will discuss why a car battery or starter battery does not make a good battery for solar. Yes they are cheap and you can find them at most hardware stores and all automotive stores. But there is a reason why they are good for cars and not much else.
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This could be one of the most straight forward & simply explained videos I've come across on youtube in a long time.
Thanks! I really appreciate that.
I'm a fan of car batteries for the following reasons: I can purchase load tested used ones at the wrecking yard for $25.95 plus tax on their 40% off day sale. That includes the $10 core charge if I don't have one to turn in. I buy group 24 and 27 sizes because that's what they usually have. I'll grab a 31 if I see one. I have 600 watts of Renogy mono panels for charging my 10 battery bank and after 2 years I've only had one battery give out. It runs my fridge, microwave, TV, lights and PC and some other stuff just fine. It's only my opinion, but I believe my way is the most cost effective way. $260 for 10 batteries is hard to beat
They are fine as long as you know not to discharge them more than 10%. I have gotten a lot of comments like yours where people are using them. That is fine and if you are smart enough to work around the disadvantages of car batteries, which it sounds you are, then go for it. I just can't tell the random Joe on the internet that car batteries are appropriate for solar because most of them won't understand and will deep discharge them and destroy them in a matter of days or weeks.
10 car batteries for $260 is pretty good. But I would put 2 golf cart batteries up against your 10 car batteries any day. And save money doing it (I can get GC2 batteries from Costco for $90 each).
I have a lawn mower battery I have just for camping and it will be plugged to a solar panel during the whole trip.
Harold Fitz Great idea. Did that myself with no issues. 150 watt panel just for the car batteries. Using a modified sine wave inverter off the car batteries for a hot shot to warm water. only a 10 second run at 1300 watts brings water to a boil. Batteries then back on charge with minimal voltage pull
@@LDSreliance 2 golf cart batteries is better than 10 12v car batteries? I dont think so.
@@LDSreliance also pretty sure you can discharge them way below 10%.
i have used car batteries in the past, man they are good as long as you use them with Solar , there is no noticeable difference
In Europe all car batteries have amps rating on them. I have a 90Ah battery on my skoda
That would be nice. Such a simple thing to add to the label and specs. Not sure why the US doesn't require it.
I use a CAR BATTERY on my Solar Panel Setup because the car battery is only used to power a 5W LED lamp for 12 hours every night (since we often have power outages during the night time). Plus because it is CHEAP. So far, it still runs just fine for the past 3+ years.
Nice. That would be fine in that application as long as it gets fully charged up between cycles. Just keep in mind how many car batteries get ruined because someone left a dome light or their headlights on. So 5W is probably fine but more than that is probably pushing it.
@@LDSreliance We live in the boonies, so power outages are common. Using a CAR BATTERY was cheap because if we turned the old battery as core charge -- they would only give us US$15, anyway. Yes, I noticed the Internal Resistance was still around 7 mOhm -- obviously NOT the best (since it is higher than 5 mOhn). But hey -- it is only US$15! And since it has worked flawlessly for the past 3+ years with zero maintenance, we have zero complaints (from a financial point of view). And when the car battery finally DIES -- then I can still get the US$15+ down the road. So YES, using CAR BATTERY is fine/acceptable in an emergency use, low demand use, simplified use, and if the goal is minimize COSTS.
Yep. Can't beat free. However, the point of the video was people actually purchasing them for use in a solar panel system. Because they are readily available and people are already familiar with them and don't know the difference between a deep cycle and a car battery.
Assuming 1000 cycles before failure, if you can snag car batteries for roughly $30 each from a scrap yard, that is still 2-3 years of cycles give or take for really cheap even if you discharge way more than 10% (maybe 30-40%). Deep cycle batteries where I am are insanely expensive and impossible to find used in decent shape. Car batteries, however, are cheap and plentiful.
Where are you getting 1000 cycles from?? Especially on a car starter battery in a junk yard. Look, even if a car battery is brand new, to get that kind of cycle life from it you would need to discharge it 20% or less per day. And since they are not deep cycle batteries and are not designed for longer loads, they don't have a lot of capacity to start with. So 20% of not much, is very little. If you want to use that for a solar battery, be my guest. Just don't expect to run much more than some LED lights and recharge some mobile devices.
you have literally summarized my final year project in 3 minutes, thank you
You are welcome! Thanks for watching.
What about joining car and deepcycle battery in series?
Works for small systems where you rarely pull the battery down much.
OK for some initial experimentation.
Not good for a system you are using to get off grid.
Truth.
Car batteries aren't the best choice but they still work.
As long as you don't discharge them too much and know their limits they can work fine. My point is that most people don't understand that and will try to run their TV off of the battery for 4 hours and then wonder why it won't work or why their battery is dead.
They do but need more attention and as noted will need to be charged way before deep cycle when using for things like radios and lights (slow-steady electron devices)
@@LDSreliance hii, a 19V DC input TV should run fine right?
@@marvemm On a 12V battery? No, that probably won't work.
is ok, example, Hitachi car battery have 2 years warranty, if the Car battery is dead you can claim a new one from the seller, that mean you can use it more than 2 years
True but you will be claiming a new battery many times over 2 years. I think eventually they will stop giving you new ones but for sure it would be a big waste of your time.
I have a small solar setup of 2x 100 watts panels going to charge controller and in to two 12v car battery's ran in parallel. I then have that going to a 1000watt inverter. I use it to run my PC monitor everyday . Sure it doesn't power my house. But I don't test with it to see how much can run off system and I can run a raspberry pie 4 with the same 24inch 1440p monitor as long as I need. So in short it's do able in smaller applications.
Yes if you are powering something that small and you recharge it every day that could be a doable situation if that is all you have access to. But you could also do the same thing with a single 20-30Ah lithium battery and it would last 25 years.
If you have a normal car battery that you need to charge up, and you have a solar power system on a battery bank (not grid tied, closed system), and if the other batteries in that system are big deep cycle batteries with heavy amp hours, can that damage the normal car battery bank to be charged briefly connecting it to that system with the rest being deep cycle batteries? Or are there other things to watch out for?
No, it would be fine. Not optimal, but it wouldn't damage anything. You can hook it up in parallel to a 12V lead acid deep cycle battery bank and it would charge it up without hurting it.
Thank you so much. I enjoy being able to ask you questions once in a while. @@LDSreliance
Of course. Any time! You are most welcome.
Deep cycle batteries can provide enough amps to start a car. In fact, if you are someone who spends a lot of time in your vehicle and uses power with the vehicle off, a deep cycle battery with similar CCA (most DCB will list both MCA and CCA) will provide you with longer battery life than a regular starting battery.
Some can. Depends on the BMS and the internal wiring. I definitely wouldn't do it on a regular basis with just any deep cycle. Your statement about AGM or lead deep cycles is pretty true, but almost no lithium batteries list MCA or CCA ratings.
And what about a agm-vrla car battery? Those for start-stop technologies?
Thanks, someone has to answer beginner questions. Perhaps you should also tell them that they will never get out the energy they put into a battery and even in a well designed system the energy cost of a battery over its life is about 12 cents a KWH. You can't make money with solar when there is a battery.
I hate batteries. I designed my whole system around a car battery because I don't bring an extra car to camp for 5 months. If left the battery at home, even with a charger, it would sulfate. I seem to get normal life out of it in dual use. I put my money into panels and run the system with real time power, even on a rainy day. All I need is about 6AH to run a medical device at night. The battery just provides stability and surge current. Refrigerator won't even turn on unless the battery is at 13.6V and it shuts off at night. I store cold which is much cheaper. I have PV hot water from excess energy and even a dishwasher with heated dry. I think the world has this solar thing upside down. People should rethink how they do solar.
That isn't necessarily true. I'd be interested to see your math to come up with those costs. I've run the numbers numerous times and shown off gridders the full cost of a system for their needs and when the break even point would be.
That is the number I have seen bandied about for years. Many studies are Australian and common numbers there are $1,000 per KWH. At exchange rates that is about $730. Typical number of cycles is about 3500. That is in the ballpark. As they say, your results will vary. Typically flooded batteries aren't maintained very well and considering degradation are oversized. Those KWH bought in batteries certainly won't all be used adding to actual cost per KWH. Anyway you look at it batteries are a significant cost per KWH.
Batteries are a big cost, yes. But they last a lot longer when you a) buy the right ones for the application and b) have a properly functioning system. That was one of the points of the video was don't expect to use a car battery and have it last very long. It is the wrong tool for the job, even if it can work in a pinch.
I have Trojan T105RE batteries that are warrantied for 8 years. They will likely last longer than that for me since I do not discharge them hardly at all each day. I have a high-quality, MPPT charge controller that I have programmed with exact charging specifications for those batteries with specs from Trojan. The controller takes care of equalizing the batteries for me once per month, so no sulfation at all. I also have a watering system for the batteries that I use to top them off with water and make sure they are well-maintained. I also have a refractometer that I use once a year or so to check the specific gravity of the acid.
All of that coupled with solar panels that will produce 80% of rated capacity at 25 years and it is a solid, long-term investment. My system will pay for itself in between 10-12 years and then all I have to do is replace the batteries every 8-10 years.
Great video! Now leave that cult.
Thanks!
There is a difference between a car battery and a deep cell battery, deep cell batts are made to last and made better, but when it comes to discharge and cycles (number of times it is recharged) quantity is much better than quality! Buy twice as many car batteries as you need and you will never drain your batteries down bellow 12.4 volts!
Are you saying that you can cycle a car battery more times than a deep cycle battery?
I would say you need five times as many car batteries. This is because you can discharge a car battery to 90 % (using only 10 %) without shortening its life whereas you can discharge a deep cycle battery down to 50 % (using 50 % of its nominal capacity).
The economics doesnt look so good for car batteries if you do this....
thanks bro, and the replies too are good. i was gonna use car batteries but am gonna chicken away
You are welcome. They aren't bad in a pinch but if you are going to get serious about solar you really need the right tool for the job.
So, if I replace deep cycle destroyed by neglect forklift (walk behind, not sit on) battery with car batteries, I should be okay for 20 minute usage between charges? We're talking maybe once a week use, if that, and really no more than 20-30 minutes. Original battery 24v 174AH, so I will replace with 180AH 24 from four 12 v batteries series/parallel
Hi!, in my country all these componets are expensive and hard to find, except car batteries of course, I have a Bosch car battery that couldn't start my car after 7 years, 5 months and 11 days, so I replaced it with an identical one, now, I can toss away that battery but still lights on a 12W 12V led light bulb even when the battery voltage it's only 11,5V (multitester measured by me), I'm new to solar tech so I'm thinking about buying a 30W solar panel, a PWM charge controller and try to charge this car battery just to use with this light bulb for about 5 hours every night, I know the battery is almost garbage but I don't have any money to buy a good deep cycle one and, like I said, here in my country even the smaller solar panel i sooo expensive. Is there any danger in using this baterry? I want to put it in my attic. Thanks in advance!
It should work as long as the light bulb is very low wattage. Use an LED bulb of 5W or less and I think you will have no trouble with it going 5 hours every night even with a damaged battery. But that is just a guess.
Good explanation. Thanks. Thumbs up.
ENJOY... THE SIMPLE LIFE
You are welcome!
A good video on car v marine (deep discharge batteries.) I have an off grid hunting cabin and have been using walmart marine batteries for over 15 years. I can get 6 to 8 years from a set of them. and for the price you cant beat them in my opinion.
Nice! Glad you found it helpful. I think some people missed the point of the video, unfortunately. If you have car batteries laying around that you aren't using and they are obviously already paid for then by all means use them. But if you are going out shopping for a battery, car batteries would be a horrible choice.
That's not the best advice..... I use 4- 100 ah deep cell batteries with 3 - 315-watt panels and a 78amp MPPT controller set at 12vdc, I need another 6 batteries to be fully efficient.
Here's my point, if you have 15, 20 or 30 car batteries laying around, ignore the advice on this video, I have ran plain old car batteries on my boat for lights and a bilge pump for weeks at a time without recharging and never had any problems, my 100ah deep cycle AGM batteries cost $280 each, by the time I have added another 6 batteries to my bank I will have spent $2,800 and they will have reached their half-life; I could have bought 20 $50.00 car batteries for a third of overall cost without ever allowing them drain bellow 12.4 vdc, the maximum my MPPT controller allows is 11.9 volts before it shuts down.
The real issue to consider is amp hours in quantity, not deep cell vs. car battery. (20- 35ah batteries is always better than 4- 100ah batteries)
Where are you getting $50 car batteries? If what you are saying is true then you were barely putting any amp draw on those batteries if they lasted for weeks and you did not recharge them. That or you had dozens of them in parallel.
Agree to disagree. Car batteries are not good for solar or for powering low draw devices unless that is all you have access to.
Ken Barnett You are so full of crap it ain't even funny! You used "a car battery for pumps and lights for weeks on end without charging "
NOT POSSIBLE DUDE!
@@LDSreliance Walmart.
You also need to be careful about Marine batteries. They USED to be listed as Deep Cycle and now some of them are more like a car battery. I learned this the hard way.
Yes, they are hybrid. They can cycle lower than a starter battery and have bigger plates internally but they are still not a true deep cycle battery that can go down to 50% DoD every time and bounce back.
RV batteries?
RV batteries are usually the hybrid kind. Better than car batteries but not quite deep cycle.
Makes complete sense but I’ve seen German car batteries give the ah rating, the highest I have seen was 104 ah
I think they do list the Ah rating in Europe. But not in the US.
I use 2kw of LiFePO4 with a 30A BMS charged from 2.5kw solar. I've considered using a large 48v supercapacitor bank to power my inverter under inductive loads like my well pump and shop compressor.
Instead I've opted for relatively cheap car batteries kept at a nearby 100% SoC with a DC-DC boost converter.
That is a good use for car batteries. Obviously you know what you are doing but most people don't. They don't understand that car batteries, even though they are cheap and easy to find, are only designed for shorter bursts of high current. So I try to educate people on the differences. But in the hands of a professional they can be used just like you are doing.
@@LDSreliance also there's a lot of confusion surrounding desulfation methods. Prevention by low level (0.01C) pulse charging @ audio frequency around 80v with a 10% duty cycle seems popular and effective.
Chemical methods using electrolyte replacement therapy are varied. When the time comes I'll opt for charging, draining, washing, redissolving PbSO4 in distilled water @100% SoC, draining, then replacing H2SO4 from the auto store.
Fact is that Lead Acid is labor intensive but inexpensive.
I use car battery for solar 100w panel
Financially. Its a no brainer. Use used car batteries not new deep cycle or lithium. But people get suckered. Always have been always will be. Good reasoning is hard to come by in a person these days.
I am faced with low reasoning people everyday and wonder where humanity is heading. Surely the suckerees cant sucker themselves when all the suckers have been suckered into extinction.
If it is free, sure. If you are buying a car battery for use in solar... there could not be a worse financial decision you could make.
What about an automotive (not solar) AGM battery? Can you discharge those below 10% without greatly reducing the number of cycles?
I've been taking AGM batteries out of the core pile at work and recharging them at home using my old time charger. The smart chargers we have at work will not charge a dead AGM so they replace them when they are still good.
I plan on getting as many of these free batteries as possible for my solar project at my cabin.
No, any automotive (or starter) battery will be constructed the same way and should not be discharged below 10% unless you want to shorten its life.
can I use deep cycle battery as a temp starter. When the starter battery is running out sometimes?
Yes. But it won't be able to give as much power as a starter battery. It could be used to jump start, though.
Dilute a car battery 's acid to 1/3 with distilled water and it will become a SMALL deep cycle battery. Your 50 amp hour car battery will become a 15 amp hour storage battery and you can casually use 10 amp hours per night. It will last a decade or more. Just don't deep freeze it. It lost much of it's antifreeze effect.
Haven't heard that before. Interesting.
Nice... need more info about that! got a link?
@@AldoAlain_Arcanebits WW2 battery training manual ( TM ) has much of what you want. Don't look at a newer one. The new Army battery manuals are retarded. Batteries are chemistry. They are simple, and if you break the rules, you ask for problems. Very few solar forums treat batteries and wiring properly.
Short and relevant information best youtube video. Thank you! I've a question to ask. Is it possible to revive AGM deep cycle batteries for solar energy. I've been using 55mah for 8years ( ideal life span 6years) ? Thank you
Thank you! What do you mean by revive? Rebuild them?
@@LDSreliance yes rebuild. It's no longer holding charge
I think they can be reconditioned but not rebuilt. That is my understanding.
well that explains our hunting blind dilemma... we had a car 🔋 hooked up... you learn things every day. thanks
Sorry, Steven. They can be okay for spot duty in an emergency or a couple minutes here or there. But as a dependable source of power for most things they really aren't any good.
Better put,,, Old cars batteries and old deep cycle's, cannot perform the same or better than newer functioning batteries, made to do the job. Just like the human body, no matter what, they will eventually fail. Hoping that old horse or mule will last another season can only be pushed so far. Cheers people.
sailingsolar
A farmer was plowing his field. When he got to the end of the row, as they turned around, the mule dropped dead. The farmer walked up to the poor animal and said, "Hmm, she ain't never done THAT before."
i dont get, there cheap solar controlers built for car batteries espescially (undervoltage protection). so wheres the point?
I have never seen a cheap solar charge controller built for car batteries. Please point me to one?
The point of the video is not that you CAN'T use a car battery for solar. It is that you really shouldn't. They are not the right tool for the job.
I wonder if you could use car batteries with a separate battery charge controller that hooks the batteries up in parallel at high float battery condition with the deep cell bank for spurious inverter high demands. It would be at the inverter connection with short 000 cables with IGBT contactors. This with super capacitors would supply the inverter for heavy inductive motor start loads.
I have thought a lot about that in the past. I think if you could figure out a way to control all of that via microcontroller you would have a pretty great product. A couple of supercapacitors for instantaneous high loads, a car battery for slightly longer high loads, and the rest deep cycle batteries or lithium batteries to provide the long term steady loads. I would buy one!
Where does the power go after batteries are charged?
It doesn't generate power unless there is a place for it to go. They go into what is called "open circuit" which means there is potential to generate energy but there is no load or demand.
LDSreliance Thank you very much brother! I've been wondering how that worked for a few weeks now. You havw a great channel man👍😁
Thanks man! I really appreciate the support.
Straight to the answer, thank you.
Edit: so if I regularly check their voltage and don't let them go below 10.8v can I use a car battery?
10.8V is way past dead on a car battery. In fact, it may be destroyed. Fully discharged is about 11.5V and halfway is about 12.2V. I would personally never take a car battery down below 12.2V (resting voltage, not under load).
@@LDSreliance how i can find the under load voltage to get a 12.2 v resting voltage
How do you do both?
You can charge a car battery to keep it charged and maintained in storage.
To keep one topped off for an emergency is perfect! But to use it as your energy storage for a solar panel system... not ideal.
How does one determine the amp hour rating needed for a system? (I'll be using one 100w panel to run a small water pump for a dutch bucket hydro system)
Here is a video I shot on that very topic: th-cam.com/video/iGTTUzN5Jjs/w-d-xo.html
I like the turtle and hare analogy. Awesome video
Hey, thanks! I appreciate the feedback.
Any idea if I can use a starlink dish (50-75W) for about 8h connected to my car battery while it charges on solar (200W) at the same time? According to my math this should not decrease the battery power to less than 90% capacity, correct?
If you are feeding the car battery with 200W of solar and only draining it by 75W then you could run it forever. The problem is the sun sets at some point. If it is the middle of summer you can get 8 hours of direct sun in some places, but not all. If it is winter, you might get 2-3 hours.
Most car batteries are between 40-65Ah, which translates to 480-780Wh. If you are trying to keep it at 90% then you would only be able to use 48-78Wh when the sun isn't shining. In other words, you could run the starlink for 1-2 hours at most before you hit 90%.
@@LDSreliance Makes total sense, thank YOU. I live in Crete, Greece during summer and we have plenty of sun. I only need internet somewhere on a beach or remote place and can leave the car under the sun for 8h to be able to use starlink. Will not use the car battery during the night. So i need to find a smart way to connect the solar panel to the car battery and then connect the invertor to get 220V for the starlink dish. Most likely I can use the 12V plugin from inside the car for the invertor. Will do more research, thank you again!
You are welcome. Good luck!
here we go again! lolz deep cycle it is!
Haha thanks!
Thanks good advice. I have never seen a car battery that didn't have the amp hours though..😎❤️👍
I've never seen one that does. Cranking amps, yes. Amp hours, no. Where are you seeing it?
@@LDSreliance on eBay Bosch 100ah, should have watched your vid first. Maybe it's different in UK Vs USA, never mind I'll be more careful next time! Thanks dude❤️👍😎
You are welcome. It may very well be different in the UK. Here in the US I have literally never seen a car battery that shows Amp hours. They are obsessed with displaying CCA (which is a silly basis for comparing batteries).
excellent
Thank you for this. I am planning to light up Africa and I thought car battery could be used. I wonder if one can get deep cycle battery for a very reasonable price and how common is it?
You can use a car battery if you carefully plan your usage and don't go below about 20% Depth of Discharge (depending on the battery). I am not sure how common deep cycle batteries are in Africa. Sorry.
@@LDSreliance Okay. Thank you.
I am confused. How does one light up a whole continent.
Can l use varta 12v 180 am truck battery for solar
You CAN use it, yes. If you have it laying around and there are no other options go for it. Just keep in mind it is not designed for that use. But if you are planning to purchase one for that use then I would not do it and get a more appropriate battery.
Truck 235ah Efb,are any good?
They are fine in a pinch. But I would not use them everyday for solar unless you are going to discharge them 20-30% DoD or less.
I dilute starting batteries about 50% and they become small deep cycle batteries. I won't discharge them below 50% which is much like 75% before dilution. I never wire batteries in parallel and batteries are promptly and accurately recharged with solar power. Deep cycling stock car batteries would be a bad idea.
That sounds like an interesting workaround. I still wouldn't buy a new one (cranking battery) for solar purposes, though. If you have used car batteries laying around, more power to you!
@@LDSreliance a car battery on sale, then diluted, is much cheaper and tougher than a Jackery.
Jackery's are overpriced garbage but those are apples and oranges. The appropriate comparison would be a marine deep cycle of the same group size, which is identical price to a cranking battery. I'd buy that any day over a cranking battery.
Car battery’s today have a AH rating
Most don't. I have only seen a few here in the US.
Haha I guess I’ve been messing up my battery for the longest cx
So we can use a car battery technically 🤔
Yes, you CAN use one. But unless you really know what you are doing and watch it closely, it will not last long.
Can we get an idea of how much we can drain the car battery in a solar application based on its RC(reserve capacity) rating?
For e.g. My 90AH SLA car battery says it has a 158 min RC. Can I assume that I can power a 25A worth of load from it for not more than 15.8 minutes maximum before recharging it back again fully?
and additionally I guess unlike deep cycle batteries we can charge car batteries at higher C rates?
That would be a good guesstimate, yes. Just remember the battery needs to be recharged to full before it is used again.
is it ok to combine car battery and deep cycle together for my solar power use? i have them connected in parallel charged by 100 watt solar panel.
You can but they will not charge and discharge evenly and it can affect the long term life expectancy of the batteries. When you create a battery bank you really want to have all the batteries be identical. You also want to wire in series when possible instead of parallel.
One other option you could think of instead of a car battery would be a capacitor. A capacitor will provide that same high current surge that a car battery is designed for but will not adversely affect the life of your deep cycle battery.
LDSreliance what do you mean by a capacitor? How does that work? Thank you(by..not very knowledgeable)
In the UK it does state the Ah as well as CCA.
Good! Wish the US required that, too.
kudos & respect to UK from NY
Oh. Very helpful
Glad you liked it, Mike! Thanks for watching.
Mercedes car batteries have the AH (Amp Hour) rating on their batteries.
Very nice. Most don't.
Focus Me etc, I have some Mercedes 100 AH car batteries mainly for test purposes. They're all over 3 years old now, but were 2 yrs old when I got them cheaply from a car/van hire firm, that renews batteries routinely, to avoid breakdown problems. They're still capable of not much less than 100 AH.(I have tested them by a timed discharge at C/20, also get a rough idea with my ACT tester.) I don't normally discharge them more than 20%. I wouldn't recommend discharging ANY lead acid battery much more than 25 -30% if you want them to last a lot of years. (Best not to go much lower than 1.9 volts per cell on a medium load very often.) AGM batteries cope better with deeper discharges, as do PROPER deep cycle wet cells as used for forklifts etc., but they ALL last longer if you DON'T deep cycle them.You get what you pay for in most cases, with new batteries. Bear in mind some cheap, so called deep cycle leisure batteries, are only re-badged car batteries & don't have thicker plates. The weight is an indication of quality to some degree. My 100 AH Mercedes batteries weigh 26 kilos each.Yuasa point out with their 3000 series car batteries, that modern car batteries have to cope with a lot more non-starting duties than they used to, with I.C.E. etc. To an extent 'Focus Me I Got trolled' has a point, in that if enough good quality car batteries can be obtained at a good price, and are not routinely discharged more than say 15 % they might last enough years to have not been a bad investment. L.D.S. reliance is right though, they are are not ideal. If say, a car battery dealer was ceasing trading & had some super prices on a load of (all the same) large, good brand, car batteries , I would not dismiss them entirely, out of hand. They would take up more space though, for the equivalent AH usable capacity, compared to proper Rolls or whatever , batteries, designed for deeper cycling. I I had some AC Delco freedom sealed wet batteries used for standby emergency duty. They were C/20 discharge tested by me & were still at 60 +% capacity after an incredible 22 years of service. (Never discharged much, nor charged above 14.4 volts .) Worked for me!Regards to all.
@ferkemall Thanks. Yes I know that some real deep cycle batteries have lasted up to 20 years. Old fashioned wet cells used in fork lift trucks have done. Telephone exchange batteries have lasted that long and even up to 30 years.
The trouble with AGMs is that eventually they often dry out. Telecomms people and other heavy users add "cat vents" then top up the water. A Google of "cat vents for batteries" is interesting. Many amateur You tube videos add too much distilled water to the little grey AGMs and make them pretty much wet cells. They should be about 95% saturated (starved electrolyte). You Tube videos often add too much water, which is not good.
German Mechanics, what do you expect?? American Technicians who don't bother with something you are expected to replace in a year.
I’ve just started a diy a small project with a 70 A car battery, it just could feed a led 40 watts light for few minutes, I expected, ok nice 70 Ah : 2 ampere of the light can last 35 hours, but I was was disappointed 😂, how big should be the capacity to have a decent length? Thanks
On a car battery it will never be "decent", in my opinion. You know how the car is completely dead in the morning if you leave your dome light on all night? And that is only a few watts. They just aren't designed for that.
Even a small UPS battery (12V 7Ah or 9Ah sealed lead acid) for $25 would be better in the long run than trying to use a car battery for something like that.
Iam using car battery for a solar system but I don't get the real back up
A Ukrainian Fascist battery?
What?
Great video alot of frustration will be avoided and alot of money saved! Great video!
I hope so. Thanks for the support!
CCA or aH is not a indication of whether a battery is deep cycle.
No, but it is a good indication since a manufacturer marketing a deep cycle battery is rarely, if ever, going to list CCA in the specs.
In Europe you rarely see CCA only aH on both types, only commented as iv recently had to buy a new batterys and have a bunch sitting next to me, however in the UK you see both CCA and aH written.
Interesting. I didn't know that. Here in the states you will almost never see AH on anything unless you are at a specialty store dealing in deep cycle batteries. And I have never seen a deep cycle battery that shows a rating in CCA.
Regardless I found your videos informative on the differences between the two types.
I some solar panels knocking about, a power inverter and a few tired car batterys that still read over 12v. I'll have to get a charge controller tho.
Figured I'll have some fun, nothing serious and use them to run lights, radio and charge power tools in a cellar without access to mains. If it don't work out no loss and they'll be off to the scrapyard.
Thumbs up great video.
Would keeping one starter battery in a series of deep cycle batteries be a good idea to kind of get the best of both worlds?
Yes, you can do that. But I would recommend using different chargers for the different batteries in that case.
LDSreliance as in two different inverters? I'm new to solar 😬
No. Inverters convert DC power (from batteries or solar) into AC power (like the power in your house). In order to charge the batteries you need a charger or charge controller. This will take existing power (from the sun or from your house) and recharge the batteries.
Well for my harbor freight solar kit i am using a car battery temporarily because
1.) its there
2.) I dont have a deep cycle battery yet (i will get one). Send me a link to some deep cycle batteries if you know of any. I was looking at an RV battery at advance autoparts but could I go any less expensive than i am now?
3.) Its not summer yet so buying a battery now would be useless.
4.) I do want to get a salt battery on a large scale solar system or more environmentally friendly i hear those are better. Do they make nickel hydroxide batteries on a large scale (12V battery deep cycle)?
Hey, that is totally fine. If you know what their limitations are and can work around it or are prepared for it to die an early death then use what you have. They can still make a good beginner battery to mess around with and learn.
Well explained.
Thanks! I appreciate that.
Nice video.
Thanks!
Very helpful bro . thank you . car battery NO , check !!!!
You are welcome! Thanks for watching. I have an updated video that I did recently along these same lines: th-cam.com/video/8tP2cub4w9I/w-d-xo.html
Would you please link me to something that talks about why it’s damaging to discharge a starter battery more than 10%? Someone is asking me about using a 12amp/144watt draw 12v stove in his cig adapter and I told him it’s designed to use while the car is running. He said he used it for an hour with the car off and the car started fine but I’ve yet to find an article online that talks about the 10% discharge threshold besides this video. Thanks.
Answer is in the "chemistry of Lead, Lead Peroxide, Sulfuric acid, water," and the other siblings lol. Google has lots of them, just sift through for the one(s) that suit your brain the most. I'm visual learner text+pictures, my wife is hands on. VERY DIFFERENT!!! Anyway, after 14.8VDC (+/-) PHYSICAL CHANGES take place that alter the battery from the state it was a "few hours ago". Same with discharging below 10.8 (+/-). My best analogy is insulin (diabetic mellitus). Don't freeze it, it will alter the DNA in human insulin making it sorta useless, that is to the best of my knowledge which is sad to say for a lifelong type 1!! Who knows what a few brilliant folks can do with nothing!! Much honor to them! Freezing insulin is like under-charging a lead-acid, only you can rejuvenate batteries, not sure how to do insulin rejuv!! Hope that helps.
Well if I could find deep cycle batteries free or cheap that would be nice,, the small truck batteries I got from the truck yard neighbour for free will have to do for now,, so far it's working ok ,got 8 batteries in a 48volt system and it is has allowed me to dramatically reduce the generator use,, I watch the voltage and don't use them down too far at night, so far they keep the fridge running and let me use my computer and keep all my devices charged,, as always need to get more batteries and more panels and then a bigger inverter, once I can run my welder in the day a number of roadblocks dissapear, one step at a time,, off grid is a battle with little money,,
Yeah if you get 8 of them that is more doable. If you have one or two, you wouldn't be able to do that. And free is free. Use what you got!
@@LDSreliance need 1 more then Im up to 12, 3 banks of 4, then get 4 more,, so far the 8 batteries are enough to get me through the night,,
@@LDSreliance at this point I have 2 455w panels placed optimaly and plan on getting 4 more the same which will be as much as the charge controller will be able to handle safely,,, I will go as far as 16 batteries as long as I can continue to get them, I figure then the next step would be a bigger inverter, have 1500w constant atm,, that should give me time to save for a lithium battery setup,, it feel like this will be one of those things that just never ends,, lol, after that ,, another charge controller and more panels, more batteries !!
It does never end. Our modern lifestyles are very comfortable and ignorant about how much energy we use (as well as where our food comes from and many other things). So the quest to achieve energy independence will be extremely long and expensive unless you can also curb your dependence on electricity by diversifying into other energy sources, upgrade to more energy efficient devices, and/or lower your demand.
@@LDSreliance yes exactly, so far I haven't had to use the generator, I'm getting very good at budgeting everything, off grid is quite an eye opener,, its winter here in nz so it's cold but I got a good wood stove and enough power for a movie ,,
for my solar system i use it only during the day. the battery is there only as a buffer with shallow depth of discharge. will a car battery survive well in this case?
Yes, in that case it would survive just fine. I personally would not discharge a lead acid car battery more than 20% depth of discharge.
Can you mix 100 amp hour deep cycle batteries with a 65 amp hour deep cycle battery?
in theory it`s the same problem, the car battery will fail if discharged too much while the DC one will survive, so you need to keep an eye on the voltage
THKS
You are welcome, David, as always.
What is the C rating for these car batteries, such solar battery has C10, and other tubular has C20.
i at most do 10. So if the battery is typical 45Ah, or 500CCA, 60Rc something like that typical autozone battery i use C10 at most.
i have seen people in rural areas do it because they don't really have much other option
If there isn't an option, it can work within certain limits. But rural shouldn't matter. Almost all lithium batteries are ordered online and delivered by ground shipping, whether you live in the middle of a city or the middle of nowhere.
Hi I just came across Bosch AGM with cca and ah on the label?? Good or no? And it has 92 Ah ??
I don't know who makes them for Bosch. I would bet money it is a hybrid battery, though. They sell them for boats and RV's and stuff. Can start an engine and lasts a bit longer than normal car batteries.
spot on video. good job! 👍👍
Thanks!! I appreciate it.
used ones can be econoical.
I'm confused, there's all these videos out there to prevent the car battery from dying if parked too long.. and they hook up the solar panels to the battery to keep it from discharging right... so how does it work in that sense. Are you saying that's a bad idea... because I have battery issue when my car is parked too long... was thinking solar panel might be a solution. Any tips.
I basically want to hook a solar panel to do two things 1) keep my dash cam on, 2) prevent my car battery from dying when I'm parked in the drive way for the entire month... you know with the covid lockdown and all... i rarely drive my car out now
Also, my cigarette power outlet thing shuts off when my car turns off, so is there any way to keep that dash cam running
float charger
@@alsatian9130 ok thx, i'll look it up.
It's OK if you want to tinker with it.
They will not last.Not designed for it at all.
A used one is especially a bad choice.
I went with deep cycle gel cell 12 V. ones and they work OK. Zero maintenance.No gassing.
I cut the load off @ 12.0 volts to protect them.
Yes,I have a 2 farad cap that does help.
I should have bought a larger one! Maybe (2) 6 farad ones,when my A/C kicks in.
There are breakers and fuses all over my system.
Use FAT wire.
Dave in Seattle.
All good points. Thanks for the comment!
Hi ddd228/Dave in Seattle. I have some 80 AH Sonnenschein GEL batteries. They are still nearly 100% capacity after many years. For anyone with GEL (as opposed to AGM) batteries , be sure not to charge them above 14.3 volts a
Which battery is good for using solar energy for home use consumption?. I bought a car battery, a 100W solar panel and a 12V car battery for charging phone,laptop, sewing machine and lights as well as a 300W continuous power consumption inverter!. And a 20A solar charge controller. My question is that, is this a good combination to use or not?!.
A car battery will work fine if you only plan to use it for short periods of time. It is designed to produce a large amount of power for short periods, like in starting a car. It cannot provide small amounts of power for long periods of time. This is why when you leave the dome lights on in your car overnight it can kill your battery. If you absolutely have to use a car battery then try to plan on only discharging it 10-20% before you recharge it for maximum lifespan.
@@LDSreliance The last part that you mentioned, what do you mean?
Here is a chart that should help: image.slidesharecdn.com/dscmarineelectricalsystemsseminar020311-110208132020-phpapp02/95/dsc-marine-electrical-systems-seminar-020311-44-728.jpg?cb=1297171312
Look on the column on the left and find 80% State of Charge. That is 20% of the way discharged, in other words. So I wouldn't let your car battery get very far below that point before recharging it. Keep in mind that SoC/DoD are measured at resting. So when you are actively pulling power from the battery or charging the battery then the voltage as measured at the terminals will not be accurate. Let the battery rest for at least 15 minutes but preferably a few hours to gauge where it is at. Once you do that a few times you should be able to get a feel for how long you can run things without draining the battery too far.
Great info. Thanks!
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
What about lithium battery ?
LDS Reliance - I better get a Costco card. I didn't realize they sold GC batteries that cheap. Thank you for the tip on that. I will make the switch over time. I enjoy your videos and appreciate your knowledge. I subscribed - Harold
No problem! Costco doesn't publish their prices online but here is the same thing at Sams Club:
www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-golf-car-battery-group-size-gc2/prod3590228.ip?searchTerm=gc2
Get two of those and wire them in series and you have a 12V 215Ah battery bank.
Thanks for the sub!
What about mobility scooter batteries?
Those are deep cycle so they will work fine.
@@LDSreliance awesome - I have 4 new 50 Ah batteries here.
There are deep cycle CAR batteries..
If there are, they are extremely rare. Link?
Hey buddy how's it going thank you for this video i upgraded to 9 deepcycle and agm bateries and i have 885 amp hours total but i got 4 old car batteres that are still good but nobody wants to buy them so im wondering if i could hook them up in parallel with my deepcycle batteries and discharge them but the question i got is what is the max safe discharge voltage for a standard car lead acid battery because i dont understand the 10% thing thanks
Yes, you can use them with deep cycle batteries in parallel. But ideally you would need a way for them to disconnect at about 12.4V - 12.5V. footprinthero.com/lead-acid-battery-voltage-charts
@@LDSreliance Thank you very much buddy
i got one more question i got a 12v AGM battery thats for a car can that be discharged to 10.5v since its agm?@@LDSreliance
No. See other answer
In reality car batreries are much better for solar not just because theyre 1/4 the price. 99/100 youre going to sulfate before you short a cell. This is due to only having 5 average hours of real charge time a day. Due to internal resistance batteries need a long slow charge every day. So not only are deep cycle more expensive by far, they have an inherent higher resistence further causing them to sulfate faster. Not to mention you can buy 4x more starting batteries making dod much less. And finally due to the lower resistence you can run high load appliances suchbas a coffee pot and microwave much easier on starting batteries.
That is only going to happen if you improperly size your battery bank and/or solar panels. 4-5 average sun hours per day is more than enough to consistently recharge your battery bank to full if you did all of your calculations properly.
@@LDSreliance not only is time a factor the charge controller is a big part as to why in fact most ultimately sulfate and not short. They like float way too early and are preset with to low of stage voltages. Then add in the reality of cloudy days.
Sulfation is not a matter of if....its THEE reality of solar and lead acid. The only variable is when.
True. If you get a good charge controller that can be minimized. You can program the settings to the exact specifications of the battery manufacturer which could be 0.2-0.3V different than a default setting for lead acid. Also, they can run an equalization once a month or on a set schedule for you to help keep off sulfation as long as possible.
Hey I bought a car battery for my car and after I saw your video I realized that the car battery said on the box 12v 45AH maintenance free. Do you think it can be used for solar
Possibly. It may be a hybrid battery. Does it have a rating for cold cranking amps on it, too?
@@LDSreliance no it does I check all over and didn't see anything like that.
That is strange. You said you bought it for your car so they were selling it as a car battery? Anyways, if it doesn't say cranking amps or cold cranking amps anywhere on the battery it is a safe bet that it is a deep cycle battery and not a starting battery.
What if I just need a stable 12v source for my single 200watt/18v/6amp MAX flexible panel on my small van and I don't want second battery or sleep next to a battery. I don't anticipate ever taking my battery under 11v since heavy use will be for a 12v 4amp fan during direct sunlight. If possible do I need a switch or isolation?
How do you feel about Dual Purpose batteries like Duralast 29DH-DL 100AH, 830CCA, 200RC? My new 2018 Promater City has a 160Amp alternator, not sure how it will respond to it, but 200RC would be really nice to have.
It sounds good in theory, but I can almost promise you that you will destroy your car battery within weeks or a few months. Car batteries can only be discharged about 10%, which is 12.58V down from 12.7V at fully charged. If you go below that you will start shortening the life of the battery drastically. If you drop it to 12.2V or so then you have probably destroyed the battery.
In the real world that solar panel will not produce 6A. Probably more like 5.3-5.5A. And if the panel gets shaded or dirty and stops producing more than 4A during the day then the battery has to supply the rest of the power. So if the sun goes behind a cloud for 60 minutes you might end up hurting your battery.
And don't discount the other uses for power in your van. Do you run any lights at night? Do you ever listen to the radio? Do you recharge your cell phone or tablet? Those will all make the situation even worse.
@@LDSreliancehanks for response. That is just it.. I really do not plan to drain the cars battery like deep cycle. I just need a stable 12v source ONLY WHEN THE SUN IS OUT. I had a 12v 90AH 140RC battery on my truck and I would run a 1a fan over night and use a 1200 w inverter for 15 mintues to cook and run power tools but with engine running and I did that for years w no problem or starting issues. I do plan to eventually upgrade to a dual purpose 830CCA and 200RC battery that will fit to get more overnight power options, but not much more.
If that is all you need then it should work. But who will manage turning the fan off and on when the sun is shining vs hidden or at the wrong angle? Are you fine with only using it between about 10am and 4pm even in the summer?
I have 10 different car batteries all linked in series, this gives me about 120 volts Dc. This runs most AC appliances in my home too so no need for an inverter.
How are you running AC appliances with a DC power source?
@@LDSreliance By increasing the DC volts to 240V d.c.... and plugging it in.... most appliances nowdays don't care about the power source as long as its enuf
@@tonigood7245 It's not dangerous touch 110v directly?
can i charge my auxiliary battery .dry, and a car battery wet at the same time with 40w solar panel.
Depends on the size of the batteries but a normal size car battery is going to probably need a bigger panel.
Most deep cycle batteries you see in the department store are not that great for solar either. Yes they are better than car batteries but there are better options such as golf cart batteries.
For solar:
car battery = poor
deep cycle = fair
golf cart = very good
solar specific = excellent
Batteries made for solar are ideal but are quite pricey. Golf cart batteries are made for much better cycling performance than deep cycle batteries. They cost more but you can start out for around $200.
Yes, but they are 6V so people tend to shy away from that. I actually went for GC2 batteries to start with because I read that two 6V golf cart batteries would outlive and outperform an equivalent 12V single battery. Not sure if that is true or not but those golf cart batteries are HEAVY so I can imagine the plates inside are beefy.
What is the difference between a golf cart battery and a solar specific battery
Solar or renewable energy batteries often have a different form factor since they don't need to fit into a car or cart battery compartment. They come in 2, 6 and sometimes 12 volt configurations, have long warranties, are expensive and very heavy (over 100 pounds). The so called golf cart batteries come in 6, 8 and sometimes 12 volt configurations, similar dimensions as car batteries but can weigh twice as much due to the massive plate structure needed for deep cycling.
The 12v deep cycle / marine batteries often found in department stores are inferior to either of these. For around $250 you can get two 6 volt golf cart batteries for a starter solar system.
I can actually find $90-100 golf cart GC2 batteries at Sam's Club or Costco usually. So grab 2 of them and wire them in series and you have a really solid 12v "battery".
What about lithium iron phosphate batteries? They probably weigh 10 pounds MAX (i found one for just over 2 pounds), if you 100% discharge them, then they have 5000 cycles, and for what you get out of it, they arent that expensive.
What is the battery stays in the car and the car is running and you use an inverter? Does it make any difference then, because the alternator should keep the battery from getting to 10%?
Yes, the alternator is providing all the power in that scenario. Depending on the size of your load and the current capacity of the alternator, it should be able to handle most loads and charge the battery at the same time.
@@LDSreliance thank you...
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
OMG a bunch of people that are not EE's. They believe what they have been told and don't know the difference. What is really funny is a deep cycle LA battery isn't what the label says it is. Really, can you blame them?
Here is what everyone needs to know. DON"T USE A LEAD ACID BATTERY FOR ANYTHING, but maybe starting your car engine. Ever hear of an Edison battery? They aren't made today because they last too long. The ones that were made a hundred years ago are still working today.
That is a pretty ignorant statement. You know that the vast majority of solar energy storage is lead acid, right? They work great. Are they optimal? No. But they give the best bang for the buck by far of any battery type still today. Nickel Iron batteries are great and they actually are still produced. But they leave a lot to be desired as they have low energy density and are very heavy and bulky. They are also very expensive.
salt-water batteries are an awesome compromise between the NiFe and Lead-Acid. If only we could source the nickel!!! Making everythin else including the electrolyte anyone can do at home. Nickel is the achilles heel. Great battery, but businesses hated it. Businesses CANNOT make knowledge obsolete!
Hello like your video, I am kind of new to the solar stuff. I have a 25 watt harbor freight solar panel to power 6 LED bulbs for landscape lighting. Along with a regulator, I bought a new Walmart car battery which worked fine for a year as the lights ran all night every night. Then the lights started to flash and go off and then turn back on and flash again, etc. I replaced the regulator with another one and it did the same thing. So i bought another new Walmart car battery, it worked fine but after a month the lights started to do the same thing, flash, off and on, etc. I was guessing that perhaps a cell went or perhaps the battery wasn't a good one. Do you think a deep cell (cycle) marine battery would work? Also if I went with a solar battery would you know how many amp hour i would have to match up?
I think most of us start out this way and learn the hard way when we break something that it is better to make the investment in the right technology from the get go. I certainly did, multiple times.
Anyways, you definitely need a deep cycle battery and not a car battery. A lithium battery would be even better. The car battery likely works okay during the summer when the days are longer and there are more sun hours (equals less time on the battery at night). And it also depends on where you live. Some places get more sun than others, obviously.
As far as how many amp hours of capacity you need that will depend on the energy consumption of the lights and how long you keep them on each night.
Thank you very much for your reply. I will can the car battery and get a deep cycle and look into the different amp hours more. Thanks again.
bosch platinum series agm size 65 has cca and amp hours
Nice. One of the few that does that.
Those warranties though!
On car batteries?
Can u show how to use a deep cycle battery with a generator
To start a generator?
@@LDSreliance to charge a solar generator
@@LDSreliance let me rephrase thar now that I have more understanding. I have a 2000 watt inverter and I want to run around 240watts for 10hrs a day.. what batteries could I use..if I get marine what numbers on the battery should I look for if I get a car battery what do I need to do to prolong the life..and last how do I set it up.
"Hey sorry,for the delay, will email tomorrow!" cheers
No worries!
can i use car batteries just to store energy without discharging ?
Of course. They will store energy. They are just better at expending that energy really fast with lots of current than for longer periods of time with low current.
Got it thanks