This reminds me of DBZ Abridged lol. Cell: "The stakes have never been higher." Goku: "Ooooh! *gasp*" Cell: "And before you say it, no, the prize is not steak." Goku: "Aww."
Some specific things I like in death scenes that weren't mentioned in this video: 1. 'Wait WHO did I just kill?!?' I love twists where a character commits a murder they believe is for the best, then realizes everything is not what it seems and they have just killed someone they loved. Three examples immediately spring to mind: two from fantasy, one from a Gothic novel. 2. The right amount of closure in the dying character's arc Large amounts closure are fine if it's meant to be a peaceful death, but in many other cases, it can make a character death feel predictable, unrealistic or not shocking/sad enough: e.g. complete character arc before death, lengthy goodbyes to all loved ones, character feels completely ready to die. A little bit of closure, however, can help make a death scene feel more meaningful, such as an important step in the character arc before or during death. 3. Unique but realistic last words In one of my favorite death scenes, the dying character remarks how beautiful the ceiling is. In another of my favorites, the dying character asks if they've done a good job (closure in their arc) but alternates this with whimpering about the pain. These are examples of what I was trying to say in point 2: these last words are touching without being cliché or unrealistic. 4. Attempts to keep the character alive I like when the other characters don't give up instantly once a character is mortally wounded, but first attempt to heal/revive/stabilize them. This feels realistic and also adds more suspense and emotion to the scene. 5. It is clear that the character is dead Two of my LEAST favorite death scenes involve a character dying in an unusual magic-related way, without any visible bodily remains/evidence that shows this character is actually dead. This is so frustrating because it feels like either it'll be a fake-out death or the other characters will find evidence later and instead nothing happens and we're just supposed to accept and mourn this death. I don't know why this bothers me so much but I really want to see the body or some other form of evidence. Or else establish BEFOREHAND that this magical thing is lethal instead of saying afterwards 'oh yeah, they're dead now'.
"Death is what completes a person" - Kaido Yeah, truly i always remember Going Merry, WB, and Ace, it is impactful if a character dead I'm happy that author makes a good death scene that makes me crying like a baby
I think a good character's death is when you invested so much on this character and spend a good amount of time with them. And when he/she is dead, you reminiscing this character the moment the death coming
True. Than again, perhaps there is room to consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, a way to make a character more memorable than giving them an honorable death, is pissing an entire fandom for over 20 years over a fake out death. Pell's sacrifice was great, but would we still talk about him so much if he was dead? Perhaps those fake outs are a way to keep the discussion going, give the most impactful moments a fake out, and than handle actual deaths off screen so the fandom will rage.
I've actually kind of changed my mind about resurrections recently. Most of the time I still hate them and think they take away stakes. But if a fantasy or sci-fi setting establishes early on "These are the methods we can use to resurrect people" it's just another part of the magic system to me. In these scenarios there's also usually a way around it, which keeps some stakes. If resurrection is introduced late in a story or series with no precedent I agree that it sucks.
I don't mind it if it's introduced late, as long as there is some precedent. I actually kind of like a late-game or belated resurrection. Like, if they tried to bring them back but thought they failed, but actually it just took a while longer than they thought it would; if there was reason enough to not have known the character was coming back, but there is also a reason to bring them back; or if something or someone else has to be given up, intentionally, in exchange. Among other things. (I don't know how to explain it very well right now, because specific examples are escaping me!) But aside from that, I pretty much agree with most everything you've said and which has been said about it in this video too! ^^
Jade City is a great example of death done incredibly well IMO. As one commenter in the vid mentioned, the story fundamentally changes when the death happens
The best part about that death is that the way it's done puts you in the other characters shoes because of the disbelief you feel at the death. It doesn't feel real at all, even into the 3rd book. Lee is a fantastic author
I feel like resurrection can work in a story as long as it’s thematically consistent with the rest of the story, doesn’t negatively impact the weight of the plot, and comes with an appropriate cost/risk. One of the best portrayals I’ve seen involves a character trying to bring her dead husband back. This is in a world of magic where there are cases of people being successfully resurrected, but it’s so insanely difficult and improbable that she runs the risk of ruining her mental health even more unless she gives up and accepts the grief.
@@a_karch I think a fake out is Character A was in a situation that was deadly and now the reader as well as the rest of the characters think they're dead and all signs point to that but a couple of chapters (or books) later it's revealed they never died. Resurrection is when Character A actually dies but then comes back to life.
I think that Teresa’s death in The Maze Runner was an amazing and awful death scene. Amazing because she was coming to the end of her character arc, she sacrificed herself and because her last words were a realistic length, but awful because she was the main love interest in the series and she died in… 2 paragraphs. And then the book ended.
I think using death to progress and change character motivation is very important and sometimes underutilized. Also I want to see more cultural views on death
I’m not going to name names, but we all know there’s a certain manga author who is very fond of fake out deaths (yes, we’re looking at you man who shall remain nameless). What I love about HxH is that Togashi does a great job of having us feel attached to characters and having their deaths mean something and serve a purpose
I could mention a lot of mangas in this regard but I don't often see Naruto being recognized in this aspect, but Naruto has some of the *best* deaths I have seen.
I would like your take on a series like Re:zero the main premise is about time reversal so the author get to have his cake and eat it too, he can kill any character get characters real raw reaction and then reverse it but since our main character remembers it he lives with the guilt and ptsd of his own deaths. It creates a situation where the main stakes of the series is the main characters mind and soul as he tries to endure alone.
Because fiction often doesn't focus on people of a certain age, I feel very touched after a character dies after a long and fulfilling life or as a relief after a long illness.
I think my favorite kinds of deaths in stories are when they die "off screen" and its revealed to characters afterwards, cause that's usually how you find out someone died irl. It's just a very real feeling moment. This happened in Looking For Alaska, and although it's not a book it happened in Scrubs, and I love it in Scrubs bc its secretly revealed, where it's made to seem as though it was some random patient we don't know at all and we keep seeing the dead character throughout the episode bc their friend is imagining him there to cope with it until its fully revealed that he's been dead
I agree, but to an extent, and it depends on the story. If we take one piece for example, each death in one piece is given a lot of gravity. The character usually have some final, impactful words, their death comes in a moment of triumph or ultimate defeat, you can understand just how monumental it is and witness the end of a life, and so such an approach just won't work in this kind of story. If you treat almost every death as this grand spectacle, unless you REALLY pull it off well, such a silent, quietly going into the night off screen would be such a tonal whiplash.
The Expanse show did it suprisingly well - they changed a plot fromt he books, somebody quite important dies, and the characters keep remembering them. They have those little moments, where something reminds them of that person and there is either a moment of silence, or sharing a little memory, or something. In a sense, the dead character is still very much present, and I love it.
I think my favourite type of death is a meaningful sacrifice, where the character has had or completes its character arc with their death. It can certainly be overdone, but my favourite story did this so well, and it's stuck with me since. It was also the type of death to shift the whole plot moving forwards, as well as having an immense impact on the characters that knew them. All in one heartwrenching package. :')
Death needs to have consequences. Emotionally, or figuratively or literally. The reason why death or loss matters so much is that you LOSE something from it. And when you lose something, it makes you value it that much more and it hurts that much more. There has to be something on the line for something to matter. On a separate note, that’s why 9 times out of 10 resurrections feel so shallow because the character comes back and acts as if dying doesn’t mean something. If a character were to be revived have SOMETHING be taken away, (or perhaps something unwanted given to them) some examples would be PTSD, loss of innocence, change in who they are or how they act, grief over what happened to them and the person they used to be, or maybe just plain old fear of the thought of being dead. Death isn’t quite as simple, and taking account of different elements like grief, loss, emotions and action makes it that much more rich… Even if it rips out your heart and stomps on it with glee.
Every time the topic of death comes up in books, and how to write the impact of certain characters or how death comes about, I always have to think of Nehemia from the Throne of Glass series, cause the way Maas killed her only POC character in a badly written scheme only so that the main protagonist gets character development or in this case - motives to defeat the totalitarian slave-holding ruler. it bewilderes me every time and is such a good example of what not to do.
One thing I feel should be mentioned that I've been thinking about lately. Brennen Lee Mulligan said that death is not funny or necessarily a punch line, but it is a perfect set up. Example You're at a wake, and you are getting condolences from everyone. People are walking up and telling you that they're sorry for your loss. People are weepy, teary eyed. There an enormous melancholy in the whole house and no one has had any time to understand and process what recently just happened. And then you look at your watch and then you tell everyone, "hey it's six and we have a reservation at Olive garden so we need to head out". And so everyone collects their stuff and goes to eat Bread sticks and salad.
Speaking of Malazan, I'm finally getting around to it and am a third of the way through book one and I believe what you say. This world feels terrifying and alien but the characters in it and how they react to their experiences in this world feels real. I'm already hooked in deep
One of my favorite series has a scene where our main character arrives home, having heard something awful has happened. He’s me outside the house by his brother, who’s been with him from the start and they’ve lost many friends together. The brother stops him and they take a moment to grieve together before our main character steps forward to witness the destruction of his life.
Now that I think about it Kelsier from mist born probably has one of my favourite deaths. It affects the characters, the plot was severely progressed through it and it was satisfying for the character himself
Just ignore me for a moment 🙂 but if you have finished the original trilogy, read the novella mistborn: secret history next. It is part of the arcanum unbounded collection. Then read era 2.
@@lewst I habe taking a screenshot to remember. First I’ll read 20th Century boys and after that some malazan books… but after that I’ll read these. Thx for the suggestion though
There's this webnovel I love where there's a character who's whole existence is trying to escape death by any means, and when he finally accepted it man it hit different
How the characters react to deaths is for me the most important thing to make a death impactful. Death is ultimately useless if it doesn’t seem to have any effect on the characters. For me, the big reason as to why the last few chapters of Half-Blood Prince are so masterful is because of everyone’s reactions to Dumbledore’s death, the shock that such a great wizard is now gone and you really feel how important Dumbledore was to the safety of ths wizarding world. For him to die feels as though the war is lost.
Oh I just read a book and I was so MAD because it had a love triangle and the author killed the third one instead of fixing things so 1 and 2 could get together. The author saved it because they didn't end the book together but I was still mad because I thought it was a lazy way of resolve the issues presented in the story.
That’s even worse than making the rival a complete douchebag when the love interest isn’t around, because god forbid the rival be a genuinely nice person.
I love the tidbits of love we get for Malazan lol I need to get back to that dang series! Finished book 5 and was just sort of empty and burned out. Every time I think about it though it fills me with feels and love. I need to reread and start it up again.
Just starting this series. Only 30 pages in but I am so immersed already. I have very little idea what is happening just yet but I am fascinated by it all! I will likely not binge it (maybe one book a month) as so many people mention burning out.
The fake out! I just finished Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings, and I stopped counting fake out deaths and resurrections after a while. One could have been ok, 2 maybe... more is too much!
sacrifice to save others in a selfless way gets me. I hate someone joining the plot and then dying a few chapters later as obviously that was their whole reason for being there. But worse is the magical cure that never existed before to get out of the issue of their loss
I like fake deaths! For me it's all about emotional character moments. When a character dies, their friends mourn, get angry, get scared or strengthen their resolve. When a character comes back, their friends cheer and celebrate. It's twice the emotions^^
As long as I can believe in the emotions of the other characters the death itself doesn't have to be literal/permanent. But I like when the resurrection doesn't happen instantly. That way it can have an impact to the story. My favorite death-scene is followed by a 70 year timeskip, after which the MC returns to life.
Hard agree with you on the subject of fake out deaths. It's a great way to get me to throw a book at a wall. Except I also hated that in Game of Thrones, too.
Al I can think about when your talking about characters dying before their arc is complete is *FREAKING GAME OF THRONES!!!!* The red wedding..... (rage)
The Malazan "could have been prevented if something put off was done earlier" is such a good one, there is a ton of foreshadowing on it in the first book, and then in a later book (Bonehunters) you discover the reason the character kept putting it off and it just hits you, I was just like "....shit....that was 3 books ago and now all the emotion from the death is back and it makes sense and Erikson is a god among writers"
I read a book recently that (kind of) subverted the fake out death trope nicely. POV character falls from a cliff in chapeter one. He survives, then hikes back to an empty camp, assuming his crew is dead. I felt no real attachment to this crew I'd never met, but could sympathize with this as a tragic backstory. Come to find out later, the crew survived that fight and also thought the POV was dead, and we got a few chapters with them to see how they function without POV guy. So both sides mourn their losses and speak fondly and whatnot. But the AUDIENCE wasn't tricked or manipulated.
I like character deaths where the character dies before the story even started and you find out at the end that the character was dead all along. Then, so many pieces of the story make much more sense.
What Allie W wrote is pretty much what I think, usually seeing the reaction of others is what makes me emotionally about a death. Not that there aren't death that bother me without anyone mourning
Honestly i hate death because i have to part with characters i have spend my time with ,it hurts (occasationally) but after some stories i do understand why it is needed
Yeah-I think it really really depends on the story. Some stories, it works to bring characters back, because you just don't want them to die. But, other stories, it's not that you want them to die but it fulfills a purpose or serves some specific function within the story which you can totally understand-so they can't ever come back, or things don't work.
One story I read that talked about death was the short story Fragile Legacies from League of Legends. The way that they weave in the plot-related consequemces from a deeply personal character mourning was delightful to read. Additionally, since the character is fleshed out after we know they're dead, stuff like death flags on a newly introducted character feel less cheap and less like they're trying to get ya.
Ive been working on my epic fantasy story where my main characters death has already been decided. So my focus point is that he is using his prophetic death to change the world before he's gone. Still thinking if I should go with this plot 🤔
Foreshadowed deaths where we find a character is making the most of their remaining life, actually is imo the best kind of death. We can prepare for it, we wonder if it'll really happen how we expect, or if there will be some kind of last minute save-- but at the same time if the character is resigned and not actively trying to avoid their doom then we can accept it too. It brings us along for a ride. If you have a 'Watson' or side-kick for your protag having the occasional POV shift to theirs so that when they live and the other character dies we don't get jarred out of our only POV would be my major suggestion. Also so that we can be more attached to those they are leaving behind and therefore care about the people and world they're sacrificing themself for as much as your MC does. I'd say go for it. It's not very common and that generates interest, a lot of people like the idea of a main POV character being just as mortal as sidecharacters. Personally I don't like shock-deaths, so your plot sounds good for exactly that reason, it's not sudden and we get to emotionally prepare and only wonder what cool things they'll do in the middle, with the stakes being about who they'll meet, because know their outcome.
@@purpleghost106 hell yeah 😃. Speaking of Watson-esque characters. My whole story will actually focus on 3 people. The main protagonist (who will die) and his 2 protégés who will basically be my 2 deuteragonists. The brief plot is that my main MC is passing on his will and lifes work onto his 2 disciples by raising them and training them, whereas the 2 students hidden agenda is that they are hell bent on breaking their masters death curse. The whole epic saga are these 3 individuals journey and adventure together.
02:58 literally Junpei's death in Jujutsu Kaisen. I think you should check it out, Merphy. If you love found family, badass female charas, and death, it's really perfect lol XD
Oof, that last comment is relatable. I just started reading (fantasy series that probably has a ton of spoilers so I'll try to avoid them by not naming it) and the mentor and apprentice characters got into a battle with opponents that were beyond their ability to cope with. I kept expecting the mentor to die. I was beginning to become emotionally prepared to have the mentor taken away because the mentor death is such a common trope in "the hero's journey". And nope, they did not die. At least not yet. I was so happy... but now I am waiting to see if the character will get killed off later. I'm also in the middle of another fantasy series where a mentor/ally character did get "killed off", but it was off screen so I'm waiting for that character to show up again, cause I know that's also such a common trope. Whenever it's off screen, it's always a gamble if they'll come back or not.
idk why I love the thumbnail for this video so much. Something about Merphy holding a knife that way when I know she's a nice lady and a mom is just funny to me.
The manga series Shaman King does an interesting thing with death where characters die but can be resurrected but only under certain circumstances and when they return they gain a degree of self-realization and enlightenment with a new level of power, also only a few characters had the ability to resurrect others. For me it works for this series as the power system is based on the manipulation and connections of spirits, with some of the main characters being spirits.
Appreciate this topic being discussed. Especially after watching a film where a character's death was handled bad. Also repetitive fake out deaths are a pet peeve of mine
Fantasy also has the option of dead characters still being, well, characters. They can be some variation of a ghost or there is often an option to speaknwith the dead or even visit the realm of the dead.
I have a suggestion for the next Dear Authors video...Magical Girl series. With Magical Girl series being geared more towards the interest of the female audience, you could do a follow-up video on the male-geared equivalent of the Shonen genre.
While there are still Plenty of good emotional and brutal deaths, my favorite is the plot death due to them encompass the former two traits while also taking the the story in directions you never thought possible and out of all are probably the most difficult to pull off, with so many stories designed to be long lasting , authors rarely change up the direction of their stories so plot deaths are increasingly rare… Hxh and ASOIAF are some of my favorite stories ever for being able to able to accomplish them multiple times while keeping the story fresh and interesting Hxh probably has three while ASOIAF has like four to my count and they are all so well done
One of the most shocking death tropes, especially when done well, is when the author kills off the POV main protagonist and continues the story from another POV. It's not attempted, and only rarely done well, but when an author manages to pull it off, man oh man what a gut-shot.
I'm designing a D&D campaign, and "Dear Authors" is very helpful there as well. I can't kill the main "player" characters, but all other characters in the story are fair game. Finding areas that make the most impact rather than just for shock value is a great point. And I thought House of Salt and Sorrows handled death in really interesting ways.
just never let your players realize you arent ever going to let them die. It causes many peoples investment to go out the window when they realize their survival isnt due to their own efforts, its just plot armor
Michelle Madow also does resurrection very well, in the Elementals series, dealing with Greek gods, there is a little time travel (which normally I hate, but she made the travel so relevant, important, it had strict rules. It was great!) And then there is the returning of a soul from the underworld into THE DEAD BODY of it's owner. Like yes the character is alive again, but their body is still decaying around them.
I ONLY really hate fake-out deaths when it's an annoying character and I'm secretly glad they're dead. Often it's an important character, so they do a lot (and annoy me a lot), but then! They die! And their death is impactful, so the author kills two birds with one stone for me: an annoying character is dead AND something impactful has happened. BUT THEN! They come back for some reason and I hate it.
I know this is a book channel but i've seen visual novels done death in an interesting way. Some visual novels have dead ends where the mc dies by some poor choice taken which feel anti-climatic theme wise but they can give interesting insight of the world and characters. Fate stay night has a early game death that drops you a connection between two characters. Your turn to die has a character that can betray you in an ending but later on they'll do a big sacrfice in the main story which makes him more compelling. And the zero escape series is all about reaching those deaths in order to unfold the bigger mistery.
The whole 'lost potential'/the inevitably of consequences is handled so well in Iron Blooded Orphans. Character who have had their dreams and hopes twisted as they fell into the endless loop of violence that perpetuates violence. In the pursuit of a future that grows more distant the more they fight, the series does a fantastic job at showing how the soldiers who cannot lay down their arms and find a new way forward will eventually be consumed by warfare, becoming a monster that stalks the battlefield as nothing more than a Demon to be exterminated by the enemy. Hard to put it into words, just love the way IBO uses death to ramp up the stakes and eventually set forward an unwinnable conflict where even though the "twisted soldiers" characters know that their fight won't make a difference, they fight on anyways because it's what they know, all they know. The series points out from the start that these characters are stuck moving forward, unable to NOT fight, to not have a goal as it would mean they would lose their purpose, some metaphorically and some physically. Such a great show and VERY worth the watch. One of my favorites and I don't like any other Gundam
The flipside of this as something I hadn't even considered before: Stories where the decision about death is that there WON'T be a major character death in this property, even if plenty of other stories in the genre and with this general audience might expect some. I'm thinking of two stories in particular where I kind of expected major deaths, but am glad I never got them. It trades out the normal fear of death for an ongoing sense of comfort and adventure. But at the same time, there's plenty of room for other fail states and consequences. Knowing when NOT to kill characters and what that does to a story is an underrated skill.
I know I sing his praises from the rooftops but I feel togashi does deaths well, even his fake-outs which I've come to expect all have differences that make them unique, characters you may have felt like you knew change, characters who knew them act different during their death and after their revival, plots shift, characters learn, we are able to mourn but also move on, changed, thinking different. Guarded, angry, self-blame, deep sorrow, we still get those from the characters we care about who cared about them, and here I am saying... dammit togashi, you got me again.
Two of the deaths I read were people that had significant roles, "A corner of the universe" by Ann Martin, and "Triumph" by Ben Bova. I could not stop crying, and had to put the book down just so I could recover.
Supernatural lost all stakes after season 5. My least favorite plot device in that series that I am so salty about is the notebooks from Death's library.
"If I was going to die, it would be to teach you a lesson"- Master Wu from Nijago. Not a book, but Absolutely! Edit: It was a fake out death that hit nicely also. Totally love that kinda thing.
This video remembered me about a main character death a bit before the end that I am planning for a book I am trying to write. This is a Time Travel story and the protagonist is a Girl that technically is the same person as the antagonist. They are considered the same person but is not like they are the same person at two different times at their lives, it's weirder than that. A detail that a explain from the middle to the end of the book is that the bbeg used to be a hero who tried to save the world, he used his ability to go back in time to try again and again tens of thounsands of times. He had gone back in time so much and tried to redo so many things that the timeline became weirder and weirder. After countless tries with success one day he gave up. But this decision wasn't sincere from his part, and due to the existence of a fraction that still wants to save the world, he being part of a group of people and objets that must exist at their given point in time and the timeline itself not being able to confirm his existence due to how much distortion he had caused, it made the protagonist be born. My reasoning to kill the protagonist is that it would constitute the completion of both her and the bbeg character arcs. So that they would return to be the same character.
The best deaths are of characters I had time to get attached to and root for. Characters I got to see grow, and change, and live. Makes me feel like I lost a friend. I love when the author isn't afraid to kill off a main character or a fan favorite who's been around for most of the story. Hit me where it hurts. Don't just bring in random side characters to then immediately kill off before I or the protagonists have time to care. Kill friends and family, mentors and protégés. Not that one dude they met on the side of the road. Examples include: Dobby, Jason Grace, Newt
16:22 To anyone who is wondering, BBEG stands for "Big Bad Evil Guy", it's a term primarily used in Tabletop RPGs like D&D to refer to a main antagonist. (Spoilers for Final Fantasy IV and Mistborn beyond this point) A fakeout BBEG is someone like Golbeze, characters who seem like the "final boss" or whatever but end up being relatively weak sauce, usually subservient to the big bad, but occasionally it could be that the baddie was unrelated to the big bad or even, as with the Lord Ruler, that by killing the fakeout, the real BBEG is released.
I love it when a character that when they know their near the end of their life, decides to do whatever they still can for the ones they will leave behind, or when the death of a character fulfills their life? legacy. Think Gol'd Roger and White Beard from one piece, or Thors and even Askelad from Vinland saga. Naruto even has this as a concept that characters struggle with, Saying that a Shinobi's death should epitomize the way that they lived .(I'm mainly a manga reader btw).
I think in terms of a resurrected death we need to see the process and journey of the resurrection, many writers choose sudden resurrection for the shock factor. If we see the journey the character takes to revive someone because they were his friend, lover, or family and he tries to find a way to revive them we can then begin to root for him. We see how far he wills himself to resurect them, see his struggles and how it changes him to a kind person or a monster. I especially want to see the consequences of the resurrection itself or the preparation whether it be a part of themselves, or their own life, their powers, their future, a curse, etc. All this raises stakes on a resurrection, makes you feel all kinds of emotions through his journey, and fundamentally changes the story as a whole.
Mileage will vary on resurrections. Resurrections speak to me on a spiritual level and I love them as they point to my own beliefs. But yeah, still need to be used sparingly.
What about stories that have certain species that have known to come back to life. Like in the lord of the rings the elf’s and wizards their Spirits never truly die and Eru Ilúvatar can send them back to middle earth if he feels their job isn’t done yet
World at War's Reznov response to the battle of Stalingrad by being a hateful barbarian as he smashed his way to Berlin, on it's own would've been great. The fact Pvt. Chernov called Reznov out for his brutality on an almost hourly basis, getting yelled at by Reznov for cowardice and insubordination, before Chernov's death sucker-punched Rezonov back to his humanity was glorious. Easily my favorite character death ever, and it roundhouse kicks you in the soul when it happens.
I think authors' should use death more as a tool to show how it affects the living in a variety of ways. My favorite example is in a webtoon death's game, our main character didn't see any point in living the kind of life he had for a single second, yet he has to keep experiencing death and continue someone's life the day leading up to their deaths. He even had to see how his mom has been doing since he died. It's touching cuz he can't take back his death or stop the bodies he ends up inhabiting from dying, all he can do is try to give their lives some closure.
Speaking of death, I think it was Murphy that made me realize a duality between Buggy and Shanks that may exist because of how Rogers death impacted them. Two apprentices who were brought onto the ship at very young ages, grew up together, were raised by the same individuals, and fought alongside each other. They were both also present for the death of their father figure, Roger. So I think it would be very interesting if Buggy wasn't able to process/handle Rogers death and ended up the way he did, residing in the weakest sea, where his father figure was from and on the other hand, Shanks carried on Rogers will and Rogers death propelled him to become one vying for the seat of Pirate King.
I actually don’t have many issues with resurrection most of the time in stories. Even if it’s overused. For me, it just changes the stakes. Death is no longer a stake, but thats not the only consequence that can occur. Say in a DnD like game, does the story not have any consequences because you could always be resurrected if you cast the right spell? I don’t think so.
There are reasons why I'm hesitant on killing off characters. Merphy has a good point. Hell, Jenna Moreci has made good points in some of her videos when talking about death scenes and such. There has to be a reason behind it.
I generally hate fake-out deaths too, but I've seen some done well enough that I didn't mind. I went and added 2 into my own book, so my question is what's needed to make a fake-out good? In both of mine, the "resurrection" happens in the same scene or the following chapter. The first is waterboarding torture. The second is the side character being drowned but then faking her death to trick the bad guys until it's safe to get away (I specifically added this fake-out because it's a huge pet peeve of mine when characters aren't smart enough to try this). In both cases, the POV character doesn't realize the side characters aren't really dead, so it's kinda meant to add to one of my book's themes, which is "nothing is truly as it seems." Also, MC is 12 and prone to interpreting things wrong, which is established prior to both of these fake-outs.
I do want to mention character informing deaths that inform the backstory of characters that take place off page. I have two examples here, one is a book one is a game. In We have always lived in the castle we follow the remnants of a family that was poisoned to death. This informs everything how they get money, whether the dead persons objects have power, how the small town views them etc it sets up the entire premise. In the game Fire Emblem three houses Dimitri is a prince who survives the tragedy of Duscur the regicide of the royal family. Dimitri is driven by revenge and giving the dead rest, while his people took revenge by oppressing the people of Duscur. All of these take place before the story starts but are so tragic it defines the characters.
I'm very glad you brought up the issue of the fake death, because I wanted to complain about something. I saw an anime a while back that used this trope, and the character it was used for never reappeared and was killed off-screen. I'm pretty sure that was the worst use of this trope ever. (But I still liked the show, it was pretty entertaining). P.s.: In case anyone is wondering why I wrote this, I was just angry and had to talk about it.
The fake out death/resurrection thing is one of the biggest reasons I just can't get invested in Marvel or D.C.. I never read the comics, but since the movies, I've looked up many characters and arcs. From what I can tell, every single character from both universes has died and come back AT LEAST once.
Resurrection does change people. NDE is the closest thing to it. Parts of me changed, and perspective shift. There is also grief, misplacement which follows once returned. You feel like you're out of time and place, like a ghost. You don't belong anywhere. If done right, resurrection would be great angle.
I know this is a video game and not a book, but Chrono Trigger has a fake out death whose resurrection depends on those remaining to solve a problem. Resurrections can feel good if they're earned.
One of the worst series for characters being introduced and killed off almost right away was the Fablehaven and it's sequel series, Dragonwatch. It got bad... like it happening more than five times in the last book bad. Kinda want to reread the entire thing just to count how many times it happened over all ten books, lol. If it didn't at least average out to be at least one character introduced to be cannon fodder per book I would be surprised.
I do think that sometimes death doesn't have to mean something. Especially in a war story, death doesn't always mean something. Sometimes it is just pointless, like in reality. Death doesn't always mean something. It isn't always a sacrifice or important. There isn't always a reason. Of course, it should affect the characters, but there doesn't have to be a purpose.
Not going to name any manga (I lied it’s One Piece) but one certain author makes it hard to get invested in the stakes because after so many fake outs it makes me feel like I should never care for a characters well being.
![Dear Authors... Stabby, Stabby [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xBho0GKrdqo/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dear Authors... Stabby, Stabby [CC]](/img/tr.png)
"Just so they can say: 'There's stakes in my story!' But I ate no steak. The steak was raw, worthless. Send it back." ~ Merphy Napier, 2022
lool
Medium-rare is good, tho. 😏😋 🤣🤣
This reminds me of DBZ Abridged lol.
Cell: "The stakes have never been higher."
Goku: "Ooooh! *gasp*"
Cell: "And before you say it, no, the prize is not steak."
Goku: "Aww."
@@TiltCntrlz 🤣🤣
Savage Merphy is Best Merphy.
Some specific things I like in death scenes that weren't mentioned in this video:
1. 'Wait WHO did I just kill?!?'
I love twists where a character commits a murder they believe is for the best, then realizes everything is not what it seems and they have just killed someone they loved. Three examples immediately spring to mind: two from fantasy, one from a Gothic novel.
2. The right amount of closure in the dying character's arc
Large amounts closure are fine if it's meant to be a peaceful death, but in many other cases, it can make a character death feel predictable, unrealistic or not shocking/sad enough: e.g. complete character arc before death, lengthy goodbyes to all loved ones, character feels completely ready to die. A little bit of closure, however, can help make a death scene feel more meaningful, such as an important step in the character arc before or during death.
3. Unique but realistic last words
In one of my favorite death scenes, the dying character remarks how beautiful the ceiling is. In another of my favorites, the dying character asks if they've done a good job (closure in their arc) but alternates this with whimpering about the pain. These are examples of what I was trying to say in point 2: these last words are touching without being cliché or unrealistic.
4. Attempts to keep the character alive
I like when the other characters don't give up instantly once a character is mortally wounded, but first attempt to heal/revive/stabilize them. This feels realistic and also adds more suspense and emotion to the scene.
5. It is clear that the character is dead
Two of my LEAST favorite death scenes involve a character dying in an unusual magic-related way, without any visible bodily remains/evidence that shows this character is actually dead. This is so frustrating because it feels like either it'll be a fake-out death or the other characters will find evidence later and instead nothing happens and we're just supposed to accept and mourn this death. I don't know why this bothers me so much but I really want to see the body or some other form of evidence. Or else establish BEFOREHAND that this magical thing is lethal instead of saying afterwards 'oh yeah, they're dead now'.
"Death is what completes a person" - Kaido
Yeah, truly i always remember Going Merry, WB, and Ace, it is impactful if a character dead
I'm happy that author makes a good death scene that makes me crying like a baby
Never cried about a single Stark, but bawled about Merry, WB, Ace, Pedro, Ashura and even Otohime.
@@gehtdichnichtsan2418 i cried on some other character in other series, but i dont know i just forget about that character
I think a good character's death is when you invested so much on this character and spend a good amount of time with them. And when he/she is dead, you reminiscing this character the moment the death coming
@@gehtdichnichtsan2418 😭😭
True.
Than again, perhaps there is room to consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, a way to make a character more memorable than giving them an honorable death, is pissing an entire fandom for over 20 years over a fake out death.
Pell's sacrifice was great, but would we still talk about him so much if he was dead?
Perhaps those fake outs are a way to keep the discussion going, give the most impactful moments a fake out, and than handle actual deaths off screen so the fandom will rage.
I've actually kind of changed my mind about resurrections recently. Most of the time I still hate them and think they take away stakes. But if a fantasy or sci-fi setting establishes early on "These are the methods we can use to resurrect people" it's just another part of the magic system to me. In these scenarios there's also usually a way around it, which keeps some stakes. If resurrection is introduced late in a story or series with no precedent I agree that it sucks.
Check out Sabriel by Garth Nix, it sounds like you'll like it.
The Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold does this well.
Yeah
I don't mind it if it's introduced late, as long as there is some precedent. I actually kind of like a late-game or belated resurrection. Like, if they tried to bring them back but thought they failed, but actually it just took a while longer than they thought it would; if there was reason enough to not have known the character was coming back, but there is also a reason to bring them back; or if something or someone else has to be given up, intentionally, in exchange. Among other things. (I don't know how to explain it very well right now, because specific examples are escaping me!) But aside from that, I pretty much agree with most everything you've said and which has been said about it in this video too! ^^
resurrection introduced too late is no different from deus ex machina
Jade City is a great example of death done incredibly well IMO. As one commenter in the vid mentioned, the story fundamentally changes when the death happens
The best part about that death is that the way it's done puts you in the other characters shoes because of the disbelief you feel at the death. It doesn't feel real at all, even into the 3rd book. Lee is a fantastic author
Yeah I agree with this, Fonda Lee did a great job of showing how each individual deals with the death as well. She really understood her characters.
The way death was done in Jade Legacy as well I thought was so good.
@@o_o-lj1ym I've just started Jade War! No spoilsies please
I feel like resurrection can work in a story as long as it’s thematically consistent with the rest of the story, doesn’t negatively impact the weight of the plot, and comes with an appropriate cost/risk.
One of the best portrayals I’ve seen involves a character trying to bring her dead husband back. This is in a world of magic where there are cases of people being successfully resurrected, but it’s so insanely difficult and improbable that she runs the risk of ruining her mental health even more unless she gives up and accepts the grief.
I prefer fake out deaths to authors regretting killing a character and bringing them back
Wierd thing , i am actually 100% the opposite , even if it was a bad choice , fake out deaths in story are the worst
If they are brought back in a good way that makes sense it's fine imo
The problem is not the fake-out deaths/resurrections, it is how the author DO the fake-out death/ressurrection
Wait whats the difference
Fake out death and resurrection?
@@a_karch I think a fake out is Character A was in a situation that was deadly and now the reader as well as the rest of the characters think they're dead and all signs point to that but a couple of chapters (or books) later it's revealed they never died. Resurrection is when Character A actually dies but then comes back to life.
I think that Teresa’s death in The Maze Runner was an amazing and awful death scene.
Amazing because she was coming to the end of her character arc, she sacrificed herself and because her last words were a realistic length, but awful because she was the main love interest in the series and she died in… 2 paragraphs. And then the book ended.
I think using death to progress and change character motivation is very important and sometimes underutilized. Also I want to see more cultural views on death
I’m not going to name names, but we all know there’s a certain manga author who is very fond of fake out deaths (yes, we’re looking at you man who shall remain nameless). What I love about HxH is that Togashi does a great job of having us feel attached to characters and having their deaths mean something and serve a purpose
It's ok, you can say Hiro Mashima 🤗😂... Or Tite Kubo 🤔😅?
I could mention a lot of mangas in this regard but I don't often see Naruto being recognized in this aspect, but Naruto has some of the *best* deaths I have seen.
I don't know what you mean, Akira Toriyama kills characters off all the time!
@@eskreskao 🤣🤣
@@eskreskao that's because they don't have the will of P
I would like your take on a series like Re:zero the main premise is about time reversal so the author get to have his cake and eat it too, he can kill any character get characters real raw reaction and then reverse it but since our main character remembers it he lives with the guilt and ptsd of his own deaths. It creates a situation where the main stakes of the series is the main characters mind and soul as he tries to endure alone.
Because fiction often doesn't focus on people of a certain age, I feel very touched after a character dies after a long and fulfilling life or as a relief after a long illness.
I think my favorite kinds of deaths in stories are when they die "off screen" and its revealed to characters afterwards, cause that's usually how you find out someone died irl. It's just a very real feeling moment. This happened in Looking For Alaska, and although it's not a book it happened in Scrubs, and I love it in Scrubs bc its secretly revealed, where it's made to seem as though it was some random patient we don't know at all and we keep seeing the dead character throughout the episode bc their friend is imagining him there to cope with it until its fully revealed that he's been dead
That's one of my favorite series death, it hit so hard (Scrubs). 👏
Omg I love that episode of scrubs. It was done so well
I agree, but to an extent, and it depends on the story.
If we take one piece for example, each death in one piece is given a lot of gravity.
The character usually have some final, impactful words, their death comes in a moment of triumph or ultimate defeat, you can understand just how monumental it is and witness the end of a life, and so such an approach just won't work in this kind of story.
If you treat almost every death as this grand spectacle, unless you REALLY pull it off well, such a silent, quietly going into the night off screen would be such a tonal whiplash.
@@alucard347 its definitely not something that fits every story, but it's still my favorite kind of death in stories
Same here!
SIgh, I was hoping it was when a main character of a story/novel was Death (incarnations of Immortality, Discworld, that kind of thing.)
The Expanse show did it suprisingly well - they changed a plot fromt he books, somebody quite important dies, and the characters keep remembering them. They have those little moments, where something reminds them of that person and there is either a moment of silence, or sharing a little memory, or something. In a sense, the dead character is still very much present, and I love it.
I think my favourite type of death is a meaningful sacrifice, where the character has had or completes its character arc with their death. It can certainly be overdone, but my favourite story did this so well, and it's stuck with me since. It was also the type of death to shift the whole plot moving forwards, as well as having an immense impact on the characters that knew them. All in one heartwrenching package. :')
That's my favorite type of death as well but I don't encounter it often.
Death needs to have consequences. Emotionally, or figuratively or literally. The reason why death or loss matters so much is that you LOSE something from it. And when you lose something, it makes you value it that much more and it hurts that much more. There has to be something on the line for something to matter.
On a separate note, that’s why 9 times out of 10 resurrections feel so shallow because the character comes back and acts as if dying doesn’t mean something. If a character were to be revived have SOMETHING be taken away, (or perhaps something unwanted given to them) some examples would be PTSD, loss of innocence, change in who they are or how they act, grief over what happened to them and the person they used to be, or maybe just plain old fear of the thought of being dead.
Death isn’t quite as simple, and taking account of different elements like grief, loss, emotions and action makes it that much more rich… Even if it rips out your heart and stomps on it with glee.
Every time the topic of death comes up in books, and how to write the impact of certain characters or how death comes about, I always have to think of Nehemia from the Throne of Glass series, cause the way Maas killed her only POC character in a badly written scheme only so that the main protagonist gets character development or in this case - motives to defeat the totalitarian slave-holding ruler. it bewilderes me every time and is such a good example of what not to do.
*readers discussing with readers*
Hope the occasional lurking indie author is okay too? These are super useful for having an ear to the ground!
One thing I feel should be mentioned that I've been thinking about lately. Brennen Lee Mulligan said that death is not funny or necessarily a punch line, but it is a perfect set up. Example
You're at a wake, and you are getting condolences from everyone. People are walking up and telling you that they're sorry for your loss. People are weepy, teary eyed. There an enormous melancholy in the whole house and no one has had any time to understand and process what recently just happened. And then you look at your watch and then you tell everyone, "hey it's six and we have a reservation at Olive garden so we need to head out". And so everyone collects their stuff and goes to eat Bread sticks and salad.
Speaking of Malazan, I'm finally getting around to it and am a third of the way through book one and I believe what you say. This world feels terrifying and alien but the characters in it and how they react to their experiences in this world feels real. I'm already hooked in deep
The first gutting-to-the-reader desth that comes to mind for me takes place in Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern by Anne McCaffrey.
One of my favorite series has a scene where our main character arrives home, having heard something awful has happened. He’s me outside the house by his brother, who’s been with him from the start and they’ve lost many friends together. The brother stops him and they take a moment to grieve together before our main character steps forward to witness the destruction of his life.
Even a fake-out death can work. I'm thinking of The Princess Bride.
Now that I think about it Kelsier from mist born probably has one of my favourite deaths.
It affects the characters, the plot was severely progressed through it and it was satisfying for the character himself
A yes. Kelsiers death... Definitely a death.
@@lewst wait, I only read the first three books, am I missing something?
@@proto_carl8404 I would read Era 2 and Secret History.
Just ignore me for a moment 🙂 but if you have finished the original trilogy, read the novella mistborn: secret history next. It is part of the arcanum unbounded collection. Then read era 2.
@@lewst I habe taking a screenshot to remember.
First I’ll read 20th Century boys and after that some malazan books… but after that I’ll read these.
Thx for the suggestion though
There's this webnovel I love where there's a character who's whole existence is trying to escape death by any means, and when he finally accepted it man it hit different
How fitting is it that you post this video as my grandmother is on the cusp of dying
I love your Dear Author series 🤩🥰😍📚
How the characters react to deaths is for me the most important thing to make a death impactful. Death is ultimately useless if it doesn’t seem to have any effect on the characters. For me, the big reason as to why the last few chapters of Half-Blood Prince are so masterful is because of everyone’s reactions to Dumbledore’s death, the shock that such a great wizard is now gone and you really feel how important Dumbledore was to the safety of ths wizarding world. For him to die feels as though the war is lost.
Oh I just read a book and I was so MAD because it had a love triangle and the author killed the third one instead of fixing things so 1 and 2 could get together. The author saved it because they didn't end the book together but I was still mad because I thought it was a lazy way of resolve the issues presented in the story.
That’s even worse than making the rival a complete douchebag when the love interest isn’t around, because god forbid the rival be a genuinely nice person.
I love the tidbits of love we get for Malazan lol I need to get back to that dang series! Finished book 5 and was just sort of empty and burned out. Every time I think about it though it fills me with feels and love. I need to reread and start it up again.
It’s worth it!
Just starting this series. Only 30 pages in but I am so immersed already. I have very little idea what is happening just yet but I am fascinated by it all! I will likely not binge it (maybe one book a month) as so many people mention burning out.
The fake out! I just finished Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings, and I stopped counting fake out deaths and resurrections after a while. One could have been ok, 2 maybe... more is too much!
sacrifice to save others in a selfless way gets me. I hate someone joining the plot and then dying a few chapters later as obviously that was their whole reason for being there. But worse is the magical cure that never existed before to get out of the issue of their loss
I like fake deaths! For me it's all about emotional character moments.
When a character dies, their friends mourn, get angry, get scared or strengthen their resolve.
When a character comes back, their friends cheer and celebrate.
It's twice the emotions^^
As long as I can believe in the emotions of the other characters the death itself doesn't have to be literal/permanent. But I like when the resurrection doesn't happen instantly. That way it can have an impact to the story.
My favorite death-scene is followed by a 70 year timeskip, after which the MC returns to life.
Hard agree with you on the subject of fake out deaths. It's a great way to get me to throw a book at a wall. Except I also hated that in Game of Thrones, too.
Al I can think about when your talking about characters dying before their arc is complete is *FREAKING GAME OF THRONES!!!!* The red wedding..... (rage)
"Death, a super fun topic!" - out if context
The Malazan "could have been prevented if something put off was done earlier" is such a good one, there is a ton of foreshadowing on it in the first book, and then in a later book (Bonehunters) you discover the reason the character kept putting it off and it just hits you, I was just like "....shit....that was 3 books ago and now all the emotion from the death is back and it makes sense and Erikson is a god among writers"
I read a book recently that (kind of) subverted the fake out death trope nicely. POV character falls from a cliff in chapeter one. He survives, then hikes back to an empty camp, assuming his crew is dead. I felt no real attachment to this crew I'd never met, but could sympathize with this as a tragic backstory.
Come to find out later, the crew survived that fight and also thought the POV was dead, and we got a few chapters with them to see how they function without POV guy. So both sides mourn their losses and speak fondly and whatnot. But the AUDIENCE wasn't tricked or manipulated.
I like character deaths where the character dies before the story even started and you find out at the end that the character was dead all along. Then, so many pieces of the story make much more sense.
One thing I don’t like is when TOO many characters die. It just gets to the point I stop caring. ASOIAF and Malazan are both guilty of this.
What Allie W wrote is pretty much what I think, usually seeing the reaction of others is what makes me emotionally about a death. Not that there aren't death that bother me without anyone mourning
Merphy makes Monday mornings better :) thanks for another great video!
Honestly i hate death because i have to part with characters i have spend my time with ,it hurts (occasationally) but after some stories i do understand why it is needed
Yeah-I think it really really depends on the story. Some stories, it works to bring characters back, because you just don't want them to die. But, other stories, it's not that you want them to die but it fulfills a purpose or serves some specific function within the story which you can totally understand-so they can't ever come back, or things don't work.
One story I read that talked about death was the short story Fragile Legacies from League of Legends. The way that they weave in the plot-related consequemces from a deeply personal character mourning was delightful to read. Additionally, since the character is fleshed out after we know they're dead, stuff like death flags on a newly introducted character feel less cheap and less like they're trying to get ya.
Bob is the name of a character in the Dresden Files, and if he ever dies, we riot.
I second this
Ive been working on my epic fantasy story where my main characters death has already been decided. So my focus point is that he is using his prophetic death to change the world before he's gone. Still thinking if I should go with this plot 🤔
Sounds interesting, go for it dude.
Foreshadowed deaths where we find a character is making the most of their remaining life, actually is imo the best kind of death. We can prepare for it, we wonder if it'll really happen how we expect, or if there will be some kind of last minute save-- but at the same time if the character is resigned and not actively trying to avoid their doom then we can accept it too. It brings us along for a ride.
If you have a 'Watson' or side-kick for your protag having the occasional POV shift to theirs so that when they live and the other character dies we don't get jarred out of our only POV would be my major suggestion. Also so that we can be more attached to those they are leaving behind and therefore care about the people and world they're sacrificing themself for as much as your MC does.
I'd say go for it. It's not very common and that generates interest, a lot of people like the idea of a main POV character being just as mortal as sidecharacters. Personally I don't like shock-deaths, so your plot sounds good for exactly that reason, it's not sudden and we get to emotionally prepare and only wonder what cool things they'll do in the middle, with the stakes being about who they'll meet, because know their outcome.
@@purpleghost106 hell yeah 😃. Speaking of Watson-esque characters. My whole story will actually focus on 3 people. The main protagonist (who will die) and his 2 protégés who will basically be my 2 deuteragonists. The brief plot is that my main MC is passing on his will and lifes work onto his 2 disciples by raising them and training them, whereas the 2 students hidden agenda is that they are hell bent on breaking their masters death curse. The whole epic saga are these 3 individuals journey and adventure together.
@@keravnos2231 this idea sounds absolutely amazing and i would totally read it
@@militant_pacifist5900 😭thank you
Fakeout deaths and resurrections can work just as well as regular death as long as they still permanently impact the story in some great way
02:58 literally Junpei's death in Jujutsu Kaisen. I think you should check it out, Merphy. If you love found family, badass female charas, and death, it's really perfect lol XD
Now I kinda want to write a book where we always follow a character until they die, then follow a new one. Sounds fun to write.
Joe Abercrombie has short stories and book chapters that are essentially like that, though usually only one scene per character!
jojo's bizarre adventure be like
Oof, that last comment is relatable. I just started reading (fantasy series that probably has a ton of spoilers so I'll try to avoid them by not naming it) and the mentor and apprentice characters got into a battle with opponents that were beyond their ability to cope with. I kept expecting the mentor to die. I was beginning to become emotionally prepared to have the mentor taken away because the mentor death is such a common trope in "the hero's journey". And nope, they did not die. At least not yet. I was so happy... but now I am waiting to see if the character will get killed off later. I'm also in the middle of another fantasy series where a mentor/ally character did get "killed off", but it was off screen so I'm waiting for that character to show up again, cause I know that's also such a common trope. Whenever it's off screen, it's always a gamble if they'll come back or not.
idk why I love the thumbnail for this video so much. Something about Merphy holding a knife that way when I know she's a nice lady and a mom is just funny to me.
The manga series Shaman King does an interesting thing with death where characters die but can be resurrected but only under certain circumstances and when they return they gain a degree of self-realization and enlightenment with a new level of power, also only a few characters had the ability to resurrect others. For me it works for this series as the power system is based on the manipulation and connections of spirits, with some of the main characters being spirits.
yes Chocolove's retirn
Appreciate this topic being discussed. Especially after watching a film where a character's death was handled bad. Also repetitive fake out deaths are a pet peeve of mine
Fantasy also has the option of dead characters still being, well, characters. They can be some variation of a ghost or there is often an option to speaknwith the dead or even visit the realm of the dead.
I have a suggestion for the next Dear Authors video...Magical Girl series. With Magical Girl series being geared more towards the interest of the female audience, you could do a follow-up video on the male-geared equivalent of the Shonen genre.
While there are still Plenty of good emotional and brutal deaths, my favorite is the plot death due to them encompass the former two traits while also taking the the story in directions you never thought possible
and out of all are probably the most difficult to pull off, with so many stories designed to be long lasting , authors rarely change up the direction of their stories so plot deaths are increasingly rare…
Hxh and ASOIAF are some of my favorite stories ever for being able to able to accomplish them multiple times while keeping the story fresh and interesting
Hxh probably has three while ASOIAF has like four to my count and they are all so well done
One of the most shocking death tropes, especially when done well, is when the author kills off the POV main protagonist and continues the story from another POV. It's not attempted, and only rarely done well, but when an author manages to pull it off, man oh man what a gut-shot.
I'm designing a D&D campaign, and "Dear Authors" is very helpful there as well. I can't kill the main "player" characters, but all other characters in the story are fair game. Finding areas that make the most impact rather than just for shock value is a great point. And I thought House of Salt and Sorrows handled death in really interesting ways.
just never let your players realize you arent ever going to let them die. It causes many peoples investment to go out the window when they realize their survival isnt due to their own efforts, its just plot armor
You definitely should be letting players die. Don’t aim for it but don’t avoid it either.
Michelle Madow also does resurrection very well, in the Elementals series, dealing with Greek gods, there is a little time travel (which normally I hate, but she made the travel so relevant, important, it had strict rules. It was great!) And then there is the returning of a soul from the underworld into THE DEAD BODY of it's owner. Like yes the character is alive again, but their body is still decaying around them.
Last stand deaths and the deaths of young characters always get me.
I ONLY really hate fake-out deaths when it's an annoying character and I'm secretly glad they're dead. Often it's an important character, so they do a lot (and annoy me a lot), but then! They die! And their death is impactful, so the author kills two birds with one stone for me: an annoying character is dead AND something impactful has happened. BUT THEN! They come back for some reason and I hate it.
I know this is a book channel but i've seen visual novels done death in an interesting way.
Some visual novels have dead ends where the mc dies by some poor choice taken which feel anti-climatic theme wise but they can give interesting insight of the world and characters.
Fate stay night has a early game death that drops you a connection between two characters.
Your turn to die has a character that can betray you in an ending but later on they'll do a big sacrfice in the main story which makes him more compelling.
And the zero escape series is all about reaching those deaths in order to unfold the bigger mistery.
The whole 'lost potential'/the inevitably of consequences is handled so well in Iron Blooded Orphans. Character who have had their dreams and hopes twisted as they fell into the endless loop of violence that perpetuates violence. In the pursuit of a future that grows more distant the more they fight, the series does a fantastic job at showing how the soldiers who cannot lay down their arms and find a new way forward will eventually be consumed by warfare, becoming a monster that stalks the battlefield as nothing more than a Demon to be exterminated by the enemy.
Hard to put it into words, just love the way IBO uses death to ramp up the stakes and eventually set forward an unwinnable conflict where even though the "twisted soldiers" characters know that their fight won't make a difference, they fight on anyways because it's what they know, all they know.
The series points out from the start that these characters are stuck moving forward, unable to NOT fight, to not have a goal as it would mean they would lose their purpose, some metaphorically and some physically.
Such a great show and VERY worth the watch.
One of my favorites and I don't like any other Gundam
What I like most is peoples reaction to the death, like their loved ones and people they left behind. That’s what really makes me sad
The flipside of this as something I hadn't even considered before: Stories where the decision about death is that there WON'T be a major character death in this property, even if plenty of other stories in the genre and with this general audience might expect some.
I'm thinking of two stories in particular where I kind of expected major deaths, but am glad I never got them. It trades out the normal fear of death for an ongoing sense of comfort and adventure. But at the same time, there's plenty of room for other fail states and consequences.
Knowing when NOT to kill characters and what that does to a story is an underrated skill.
Very cool Video!
I will add something not discussed tho:
Too much death will ruin death. That's all i gotta say
I know I sing his praises from the rooftops but I feel togashi does deaths well, even his fake-outs which I've come to expect all have differences that make them unique, characters you may have felt like you knew change, characters who knew them act different during their death and after their revival, plots shift, characters learn, we are able to mourn but also move on, changed, thinking different. Guarded, angry, self-blame, deep sorrow, we still get those from the characters we care about who cared about them, and here I am saying... dammit togashi, you got me again.
W.S Jacob's Monkey Paw and King Pet Graveyard and The Secret Garden are great books about death
Always love your videos... ❤️
Two of the deaths I read were people that had significant roles, "A corner of the universe" by Ann Martin, and "Triumph" by Ben Bova. I could not stop crying, and had to put the book down just so I could recover.
Supernatural lost all stakes after season 5. My least favorite plot device in that series that I am so salty about is the notebooks from Death's library.
"If I was going to die, it would be to teach you a lesson"- Master Wu from Nijago. Not a book, but Absolutely!
Edit: It was a fake out death that hit nicely also. Totally love that kinda thing.
I love your Dear Authors series but I hope in the future you will do Dear Readers also if it is possible lol.
This video remembered me about a main character death a bit before the end that I am planning for a book I am trying to write. This is a Time Travel story and the protagonist is a Girl that technically is the same person as the antagonist.
They are considered the same person but is not like they are the same person at two different times at their lives, it's weirder than that.
A detail that a explain from the middle to the end of the book is that the bbeg used to be a hero who tried to save the world, he used his ability to go back in time to try again and again tens of thounsands of times.
He had gone back in time so much and tried to redo so many things that the timeline became weirder and weirder. After countless tries with success one day he gave up. But this decision wasn't sincere from his part, and due to the existence of a fraction that still wants to save the world, he being part of a group of people and objets that must exist at their given point in time and the timeline itself not being able to confirm his existence due to how much distortion he had caused, it made the protagonist be born.
My reasoning to kill the protagonist is that it would constitute the completion of both her and the bbeg character arcs. So that they would return to be the same character.
I think when they imply they are going to die multiple times and they never do..or they fake die. It removes all emotions out.
The best deaths are of characters I had time to get attached to and root for. Characters I got to see grow, and change, and live. Makes me feel like I lost a friend. I love when the author isn't afraid to kill off a main character or a fan favorite who's been around for most of the story. Hit me where it hurts. Don't just bring in random side characters to then immediately kill off before I or the protagonists have time to care. Kill friends and family, mentors and protégés. Not that one dude they met on the side of the road.
Examples include: Dobby, Jason Grace, Newt
16:22 To anyone who is wondering, BBEG stands for "Big Bad Evil Guy", it's a term primarily used in Tabletop RPGs like D&D to refer to a main antagonist. (Spoilers for Final Fantasy IV and Mistborn beyond this point)
A fakeout BBEG is someone like Golbeze, characters who seem like the "final boss" or whatever but end up being relatively weak sauce, usually subservient to the big bad, but occasionally it could be that the baddie was unrelated to the big bad or even, as with the Lord Ruler, that by killing the fakeout, the real BBEG is released.
ooo yes character reactions are so important
I love it when a character that when they know their near the end of their life, decides to do whatever they still can for the ones they will leave behind, or when the death of a character fulfills their life? legacy. Think Gol'd Roger and White Beard from one piece, or Thors and even Askelad from Vinland saga. Naruto even has this as a concept that characters struggle with, Saying that a Shinobi's death should epitomize the way that they lived .(I'm mainly a manga reader btw).
I think in terms of a resurrected death we need to see the process and journey of the resurrection, many writers choose sudden resurrection for the shock factor.
If we see the journey the character takes to revive someone because they were his friend, lover, or family and he tries to find a way to revive them we can then begin to root for him. We see how far he wills himself to resurect them, see his struggles and how it changes him to a kind person or a monster. I especially want to see the consequences of the resurrection itself or the preparation whether it be a part of themselves, or their own life, their powers, their future, a curse, etc. All this raises stakes on a resurrection, makes you feel all kinds of emotions through his journey, and fundamentally changes the story as a whole.
Mileage will vary on resurrections. Resurrections speak to me on a spiritual level and I love them as they point to my own beliefs. But yeah, still need to be used sparingly.
What about stories that have certain species that have known to come back to life. Like in the lord of the rings the elf’s and wizards their Spirits never truly die and Eru Ilúvatar can send them back to middle earth if he feels their job isn’t done yet
World at War's Reznov response to the battle of Stalingrad by being a hateful barbarian as he smashed his way to Berlin, on it's own would've been great. The fact Pvt. Chernov called Reznov out for his brutality on an almost hourly basis, getting yelled at by Reznov for cowardice and insubordination, before Chernov's death sucker-punched Rezonov back to his humanity was glorious. Easily my favorite character death ever, and it roundhouse kicks you in the soul when it happens.
I think authors' should use death more as a tool to show how it affects the living in a variety of ways. My favorite example is in a webtoon death's game, our main character didn't see any point in living the kind of life he had for a single second, yet he has to keep experiencing death and continue someone's life the day leading up to their deaths. He even had to see how his mom has been doing since he died. It's touching cuz he can't take back his death or stop the bodies he ends up inhabiting from dying, all he can do is try to give their lives some closure.
Speaking of death, I think it was Murphy that made me realize a duality between Buggy and Shanks that may exist because of how Rogers death impacted them.
Two apprentices who were brought onto the ship at very young ages, grew up together, were raised by the same individuals, and fought alongside each other. They were both also present for the death of their father figure, Roger.
So I think it would be very interesting if Buggy wasn't able to process/handle Rogers death and ended up the way he did, residing in the weakest sea, where his father figure was from and on the other hand, Shanks carried on Rogers will and Rogers death propelled him to become one vying for the seat of Pirate King.
I actually don’t have many issues with resurrection most of the time in stories. Even if it’s overused. For me, it just changes the stakes. Death is no longer a stake, but thats not the only consequence that can occur. Say in a DnD like game, does the story not have any consequences because you could always be resurrected if you cast the right spell? I don’t think so.
Keep these thumbnails going Merphy!
There are reasons why I'm hesitant on killing off characters. Merphy has a good point. Hell, Jenna Moreci has made good points in some of her videos when talking about death scenes and such. There has to be a reason behind it.
I generally hate fake-out deaths too, but I've seen some done well enough that I didn't mind. I went and added 2 into my own book, so my question is what's needed to make a fake-out good? In both of mine, the "resurrection" happens in the same scene or the following chapter. The first is waterboarding torture. The second is the side character being drowned but then faking her death to trick the bad guys until it's safe to get away (I specifically added this fake-out because it's a huge pet peeve of mine when characters aren't smart enough to try this). In both cases, the POV character doesn't realize the side characters aren't really dead, so it's kinda meant to add to one of my book's themes, which is "nothing is truly as it seems." Also, MC is 12 and prone to interpreting things wrong, which is established prior to both of these fake-outs.
I do want to mention character informing deaths that inform the backstory of characters that take place off page. I have two examples here, one is a book one is a game. In We have always lived in the castle we follow the remnants of a family that was poisoned to death. This informs everything how they get money, whether the dead persons objects have power, how the small town views them etc it sets up the entire premise. In the game Fire Emblem three houses Dimitri is a prince who survives the tragedy of Duscur the regicide of the royal family. Dimitri is driven by revenge and giving the dead rest, while his people took revenge by oppressing the people of Duscur. All of these take place before the story starts but are so tragic it defines the characters.
I'm very glad you brought up the issue of the fake death, because I wanted to complain about something. I saw an anime a while back that used this trope, and the character it was used for never reappeared and was killed off-screen. I'm pretty sure that was the worst use of this trope ever. (But I still liked the show, it was pretty entertaining).
P.s.: In case anyone is wondering why I wrote this, I was just angry and had to talk about it.
This entire series should be required viewing for any writer
One of my fave series.
I always miss the community question though 🤣
💜⚡️
The fake out death/resurrection thing is one of the biggest reasons I just can't get invested in Marvel or D.C.. I never read the comics, but since the movies, I've looked up many characters and arcs. From what I can tell, every single character from both universes has died and come back AT LEAST once.
Resurrection does change people. NDE is the closest thing to it. Parts of me changed, and perspective shift. There is also grief, misplacement which follows once returned. You feel like you're out of time and place, like a ghost. You don't belong anywhere. If done right, resurrection would be great angle.
I know this is a video game and not a book, but Chrono Trigger has a fake out death whose resurrection depends on those remaining to solve a problem. Resurrections can feel good if they're earned.
One of the worst series for characters being introduced and killed off almost right away was the Fablehaven and it's sequel series, Dragonwatch. It got bad... like it happening more than five times in the last book bad. Kinda want to reread the entire thing just to count how many times it happened over all ten books, lol. If it didn't at least average out to be at least one character introduced to be cannon fodder per book I would be surprised.
I do think that sometimes death doesn't have to mean something. Especially in a war story, death doesn't always mean something. Sometimes it is just pointless, like in reality. Death doesn't always mean something. It isn't always a sacrifice or important. There isn't always a reason. Of course, it should affect the characters, but there doesn't have to be a purpose.
Not going to name any manga (I lied it’s One Piece) but one certain author makes it hard to get invested in the stakes because after so many fake outs it makes me feel like I should never care for a characters well being.