Why You Can't Hold Centerline on Landing | Coordinating Rudder and Aileron

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 69

  • @athgt6630
    @athgt6630 2 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    Great video. IMHO aligning and holding centreline is one of the few things that is a bit easier in real life than in a sim. In front of a screen, perception of where exactly the aircraft is moving towards is more difficult. IRL you also have better realisation of the effects of your control inputs.

    • @xlhits
      @xlhits 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Couldn’t agree more.

  • @harambesbackyard92
    @harambesbackyard92 2 ปีที่แล้ว +97

    You guys are using rudder?

    • @jacobstone520
      @jacobstone520 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      This is unironically how I reacted when I first watched this

    • @umarnca
      @umarnca 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Lolll!

  • @Queenlene0710
    @Queenlene0710 2 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Whyyyyy has my instructor not told me this?! 😩i struggle with centerline so much. I’m going in with a new attitude tmrw! Thank you!

    • @frankmuller73
      @frankmuller73 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I had the same problem, sack your instructor ,that's what I am doing

    • @rapinncapin123
      @rapinncapin123 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      😀​@@frankmuller73

  • @benc1103
    @benc1103 2 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    Depends a lot on the particular airplane. Left turning tendencies mostly go away when you pull the power to idle. If your aircraft's fin is offset to counter those tendencies (set for neutral rudder during cruise), you'll need a bit of left rudder when you pull the power off for descent and on short final because the fin is set to yaw the nose to the right. So watch out for this and don't be surprised if you need a bit of left rudder. In the end, it doesn't matter what causes it. Your job is to use rudder to keep the nose pointed straight down the runway, and ailerons to kill any drift away from centerline. And a lot of the time, the two controls will need opposite inputs, sort of like chewing gum and walking at the same time. Also, a pilot tends to land on the side of the runway corresponding to the side of the plane he sits on. Left seaters tend to land on the left side of the runway and right seaters tend to land on the right side. Doesn't seem to matter if it's a Cessna 172 or a Boeing.
    BC
    26,000 hrs

    • @PlaneGuyProud
      @PlaneGuyProud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      THANK YOU! THANK YOU SO MUCH! OMG!!!

    • @enqueue100
      @enqueue100 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks, I was thinking similarly while watching the video

    • @afisher72291
      @afisher72291 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well said

    • @otisdean4684
      @otisdean4684 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks man!It helps me a lot cause Im struggling in landing as Im learning to fly c172.

    • @nickde6339
      @nickde6339 ปีที่แล้ว

      This happens to me in the PA 28 Warrior II. Instead of right rudder, Flaring, I see the nose sort of pointed toward the right and I use left rudder

  • @archerpiperii2690
    @archerpiperii2690 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This should be required viewing for every flight student. And after watching this video, chair fly the process until it becomes automatic.
    Phoenix, AZ

  • @-TK-421
    @-TK-421 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    WOW. great video.. This would explain why I am all over the place when I am trying to land and all I did was make a slight adjustment to the left or right and I turn the plane with out wanting to. Very helpful Thank you.

  • @nikofoto
    @nikofoto 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Watched this video, this morning before my PPL lesson, and my CFI said that I had the best landing that he’s seen from me so far.
    Easy to follow. Thanks!

  • @paulcrooks9573
    @paulcrooks9573 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You're absolutely amazing. I never thought of applying right rudder on landings as it applies to pitching up

  • @predatorec
    @predatorec 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Remember that most aircraft have differential ailerons to counteract to a certain amount the effect of adverse yaw during turning, This channel is awesome!!!

    • @jimmydulin928
      @jimmydulin928 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yes, there is engineering to mitigate, but not eliminate adverse yaw. Proper use of rudder will eliminate adverse yaw. And not using the ailerons at all on short final will eliminate adverse yaw. Dynamic rudder only provides proper yaw to align the longitudinal axis and thus deal with left turning tendencies. Differential ailerons, mounted way out there, are the main problem with LOC on landings. Ok, now bigger engines as well on go around. Happy feet make happy flying.

  • @arlindodacostarosario457
    @arlindodacostarosario457 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Iam struggling to land perfectly, I don't press too much foot on the right rudder, and now I do understand the reasons. I will work on it taking this post as a tip.

  • @HeatMyShorts
    @HeatMyShorts 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm just a self-taught/TH-cam-taught Simulator 'pilot' but I think this will be very helpful. Thank you

  • @ericmcgrew8952
    @ericmcgrew8952 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent explanation!

  • @MrDanoman812
    @MrDanoman812 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video...!! Another 'force' that will cause it is all of that you said with the addition of Ground effect. The cushion of air added with the torque through the center line of the prop will exaggerate this effect as you approach you're aircrafts stall speed.

  • @anthonyf.9170
    @anthonyf.9170 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Excellent tutorial.

  • @Richard-ib3kp
    @Richard-ib3kp 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    One thing that seems to never get mentioned is the wind change on final. When you are fighting to cross control the airplane 500 feet agl and below the winds are stronger and perhaps from a different angle than in the flare. It’s a good idea to make sure at the higher altitudes on final you have adequate rudder authority to straighten it out but for more practical use, fly the plane down centerline and accept the crab angle til over the numbers and then apply whatever correction is needed before the flare. The correction is typically much less down lower and better than wrestling the plane all the way down final. If you have to accept a small angle on landing it’s not the end of the world in most cases. What you don’t want is to land with a high crosswind component beyond your ability or that of the aircraft. Side load on the gear should be kept to a minimum.

  • @Eric666-l7x
    @Eric666-l7x ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent explanation

  • @sojufighter8451
    @sojufighter8451 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I really needed this. MORE. RIGHT. RUDDER.

  • @SkyDimit
    @SkyDimit 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

    huh?, you need left rudder in landing due to reduction of the slipstream when you go power idle.
    also, since when do you need right rudder when pitching up?

  • @landen99
    @landen99 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Really good video. Thank you.

  • @RedSailor1701
    @RedSailor1701 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    and I was just thinking about this ... neat!

  • @tawrencehewitt8923
    @tawrencehewitt8923 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Awesome video!!!

  • @mrkc10
    @mrkc10 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Brilliant!

  • @jongeduard
    @jongeduard 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yep, that's gyroscopic precession, which has it's effect when steering a single engine aircraft. With double engine aircraft when both engines spin opposite both cancel each other out.

  • @thatguy7085
    @thatguy7085 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Airplanes have boat rudders?

  • @Anthonyoutsidethebox
    @Anthonyoutsidethebox ปีที่แล้ว

    What if i'm drifting right of center line or yawing to the right after leveling off in ground effect and pulling back on the yoke? landed on 19L and wind was 220 at 8kts

  • @andrewmaclean9810
    @andrewmaclean9810 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Im about 13 hours in (though its been EXTREMELY spread out due to weather), and I'm struggling with landings so bad. Even with calm winds I feel like I'm super wobbly in my approach, swerving left and right while trynna stay coordinated and constantly overcorrecting. Doesn't help that I've had to switch planes a ton and I've only had one lesson where we practiced slow flight, (which was in a different plane) I def think I need to practice it more bc my terrible approaches make a clean landing near impossible. Is it normal to be struggling this bad 15 hrs in? I feel like most people get it down pretty fast but it's my 2nd day of doing nothing but pattern work and my landings are not only not smooth but some of them have been legit dangerous. Idk how I'm ever gonna get this down haha

    • @jimmydulin928
      @jimmydulin928 14 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The nose swinging left and right (wing wagging) is because you are using aileron without rudder and adverse yaw is swinging the nose the wrong way. Coordination is helpful, but that would leave you still wing wagging and continuously just flying through the centerline extended in a turn. I jam my thumb against the bottom of the right side of the yoke (or stick.) Eventually the student will try to use the steering wheel to the right and hit my thumb. I say, "rudder only, walk the rudder." If you walk the rudder pedals like you would ride a bike, you will dynamically and proactively nail/bracket the centerline extended and then centerline between your legs. This will also keep the wing level or in the bank you set for drift if in a crosswind. Or if you are in a crab, walk the pedals to bracket butt to target rather than between your legs to target. Try it. You will be amazed.

  • @hugus3009
    @hugus3009 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don't know if this happens in real life but when I play msfs 2020 and i'm going to land i can't use rudder to align properly cuz the plane destabilizes like crazy, and I don't do it very hard either, I hope it's just a simulator bug

    • @hugus3009
      @hugus3009 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@v1rotation yes, but I think it also happens with small planes

  • @joerasmussen4029
    @joerasmussen4029 ปีที่แล้ว

    It strikes me that you end up on average using more right rudder than left rudder during a complete flight. Am I right?

  • @alphaprince342
    @alphaprince342 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Now the classic CFI “Right Rudder” meme makes sense to me

  • @jimmydulin928
    @jimmydulin928 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good coverage of how coordination of controls will make things work well. While I believe in coordination, I feel we have left out the proper use of rudder alone to bracket the centerline with proper yaw. How we explain coordination, the words we use, may lead students/pilots to avoid good rudder only usage and even proper coordination. Should we really bank and then step on the ball to come back into coordination? I teach Dutch rolls to 45 degree bank angle to overcome the wing warping, frise ailerons, and spring interconnect devices to mitigate adverse yaw but not eliminate it. And I use the yes, incorrect, but also useful with humans who have steering wheel muscle memory, "lead rudder." Unless we humans think lead rudder, we are late with rudder in turns resulting in the nose yawing the wrong way first until we step on the ball. So even if we do not "lead rudder" in turns at altitude we wallow along somewhat fine.
    The problem comes with takeoff, short final, round out, hold off, flare, and roll out. Back when conventional meant tailwheel, these situations that needed dynamic proactive rudder were rote. We cannot walk the rudder pedals dynamically and proactively while thinking coordination. Nor is coordination required because since we are constantly moving some as a balancing a broom on our hand or awaiting a service in tennis or playing man to man defence in backetball. I start tailwheel pilots out with the task of maintaining the taxi line between their legs with slow taxi while walking the rudder pedals dynamically and proactively to the stops left and right. I want them to understand that it doesn't matter how much tailwheel or rudder movement we use so long as it is dynamic. Students/babies learn fast if allowed gross motor control before expecting them to walk. As they progress the dynamic proactive rudder movement will become quicker and more finessed.
    So on short final we walk the rudder pedals dynamically and proactively to bracket/nail the centerline between our legs for longitudinal alignment. Since we want to go straight and not turn, we need no aileron. And if we keep the nose (between our legs) bracketed tightly with rudder, the wing cannot bank. This is true even in gusts.
    On takeoff we do not need worry about when to expect the precession when we bring the tail up or the P factor when the nose wheel comes just off or P factor when we pitch up to bring the mains off. Since we are already walking the rudder pedals to bracket the centerline between our legs, we are well ahead of the airplane and its left turning tendencies.
    You are right about coordination. Make them lead rudder in turns. Don't let them turn on short final (wing wagging.) They will never truly align the longitudinal axis in a turn, but just keep flying through the centerline extended and having terrible problems with adverse yaw. They are busy with round out, hold off, and flare. And yes, the P factor thing. But if the are continuously walking the rudder pedals to bracket the centerline between their legs, they are ahead of this as well.

    • @AwesomeAngryBiker
      @AwesomeAngryBiker 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Mr show off bragging expert 🙄🙄🙄

    • @jimmydulin928
      @jimmydulin928 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AwesomeAngryBiker I sometimes just say it's like riding a bike.

  • @nice2care
    @nice2care ปีที่แล้ว

    2:16 Why applying back pressure on the yoke cause a left yaw? It should be a right yaw due to gyroscopic precision. Am I missing something here?

    • @Tablet-gd4nb
      @Tablet-gd4nb ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I keep asking the sme question but I still couldn’t find an answer. I thought the yaw would be to right on idle power. The left yaw happens during full power. Anyone kniw the answer ?

    • @killerbeast2550
      @killerbeast2550 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Same for me, because even when im flying on msfs I always get yawed to right on my round out. It would make way more sense for it to go to the right.

    • @jimmydulin928
      @jimmydulin928 14 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@killerbeast2550 With the relative wind from lower than straight on (pitch up with or without engine power), the descending prop blade on the right side looking from the pilot's seat is biting air at a greater angle of attack then is the rising blade on the left side. Walking the rudder rapidly and constantly to nail/bracket the centerline between our legs takes care of all left turning tendencies or gusts. Drift, however must be taken care of by setting the bank into the wind or by crab. Either way we still walk the rudder pedals dynamically and proactively to keep the centerline between our legs (side slip technique) or to keep our butt to centerline target in crab.

  • @lucascc98
    @lucascc98 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    My instructor says that in crosswind you use aileron into wind and opposite rudder why doesn't he say thos

    • @frankmuller73
      @frankmuller73 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      money spinner for these guys, they want you to keep you on the payroll

  • @anthonycyr9657
    @anthonycyr9657 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The rudder pedals are there for a reason, i fly a taildragger so i know..

    • @charlesbrewer6552
      @charlesbrewer6552 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      So true.
      i learned on Cessnas and Pipers.
      When I got my tailwheel endorsment I LEARNED what a rudder is there for!
      It improved my gerneral flying no end.
      These days cross winds are dead simple!

  • @MrMarkguth
    @MrMarkguth 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Idk, I just tell
    Myself straight with rudder and Aileron into wind, and it just happens

  • @ellonysman
    @ellonysman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Because my sim isn't perfect

    • @devansh8846
      @devansh8846 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Exactly👍🏻🤣

    • @brandonlopez4011
      @brandonlopez4011 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just curious what sim do you use?

  • @lovedonny4118
    @lovedonny4118 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The sim I use for training is super sensitive 😰😰😰😰

    • @brandonlopez4011
      @brandonlopez4011 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just curious what sim are you using?

    • @pramodmathur2055
      @pramodmathur2055 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Have you tried to adjust the sensitivity of controls?

  • @Jacktherookie_
    @Jacktherookie_ 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Dammit get rid of cockpit cam from my plane 😂😂

  • @theforce6198
    @theforce6198 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    After 1000++ hour of actual flying, I still can't coordinate my turn in msfs or in actual airplane. I still can't control pitch during flare, i usually over or under pitch. Something really wrong with me. Quest I have to say good bye to flying and I can't afford further training.

    • @xThe_Chief
      @xThe_Chief 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Coordinated turns ailerons and rudder move together, it’s like a dance as you roll the aircraft the rudder starts to move with it; the more you bank the more rudder you need.
      The pitch during the flare as you come to the round out with power to idle hold your nose up to about the tops of the tree lines if you have trees, as you start to slow down you’ll lose more vertical component of lift so you will need more back pressure as you continue to slow the aircraft, maintain good cross control using ailerons and rudder for crosswinds as needed.
      Have your instructor only go over fundamentals of flight with you until you get those down then move on from there, I feel like a lot of it you are over thinking and it sounds like you might be over controlling the aircraft, get the basics down first and the rest will come easier, best of luck to you if you really love this I wouldn’t give up, I was always bad at school and now I’m about to be a CFI I finish the flight portion this Tuesday, you can do this if you believe you can mindset is everything.

  • @배애찌
    @배애찌 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Because I am not talented lol

  • @AwesomeAngryBiker
    @AwesomeAngryBiker 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The ads run longer than the video 👎👎👎💵💵💵 no subscription from me if this is what the channel is like with ads