At the very least, they're getting your speakers up to ear level instead of sitting on a desktop. Not worthless, but doing a lot less than you probably thought
Great video- The only input I would like to add re: downward speaker placement: in untreated and problematic rooms, downward speaker angles can actually reduce total mid/high freq reflections, as opposed to driving the sound energy directly toward the back wall. In my experience w/ my own endless home studio configurations, as well as setting up temporary 5.1 screening stations for film festivals, elevating the speakers a couple inches, and then tilting them down, does far more good than harm. Your brain naturally wants to orient your head in the direction of sound, and to this point- I don't feel like I have ever had any issues with either HF dispersion or head tilt issues when using slightly elevated, downward tilted monitors.
Thanks Sean, yeah this is very much one of those personal preference things. James loves our monitors pointing down in our main control room - I can’t stand it! It just doesn’t work for me.
If you're in the UK listening to an Aussie band such as AC/DC is it better to turn the speakers upside down or leave them as they are and stand on your head?
I'm currently moving everything around to find the perfect positioning/listening position for the VSX, and so far the sweet spot for the SubPac is on my back, but going to experiment just in case I find a better position lol
I've made stands on my desk with on top isoacoustics pucks and on top of that sorbothane pucks (measured for the weight of my speakers). They're fully isolated now and I've gotten a better sound then with my heavy sand filled stands. So on a desk isn't always bad if you do it properly. :)
Just had a thought. Maybe filling stands with sand doesn't really work that well because at a certain depth of sand the weight compresses the sand to much and become a solid block? Maybe if the same amount of sand was used but the sand was split between 5-6 compartments, more sand can 'activate'.
I agree to ALMOST all you guys say and do, but only to 99.99999999999999 percent (haha). This is about the "pucks" "spikes" "pads" to isolate the speakers... but first this story: A few years back I had horrible discussions on different internet forums regarding if dithering was audible in normal song tracks. I got so tired so I created an A/B test in flash with high quality audio files. I jump to the answer you want to read... the result, A LOT of people DID NOT take the test (afraid of being wrong I'm sure), and those who took the test FAILED. Nobody could actually HEAR the dithering. As if this was not enough, I also ran into discussions regarding low level/line cables regarding to buy or not to buy the super expensive ones and if they really improved the sound. So again, I got tired of the BS from all these people that I cut some "normal" hifi low level/line cables in half, soldered old screws and nails to the ends and completed the circuit by sticking these screw/nail connectors into different fruits and also potatoes. In the A/B test, nobody passed the test, meaning no one could HEAR any difference between the cut/modified and uncut cables. Surprise, right? AND SO NOW to my point... the vibrations presented by professional studio monitors or any good manufactured speaker should be so low in vibrations/volume that it would be impossible to actually HEAR what those vibrations could create in sound from other objects, not to mention what the WOOFER will create in the room regarding vibrations in objects in the room... so what's next? Foam on the actual speaker cone? (I'm kidding)...Anyway, now you can see my comparison with the dithering test. And so until you guys perform a CORRECTLY executed A/B test WITH vibration metering (NOT in front of the speakers), I will not like you a 100 percent, haha... Test the vibrating surface ON TOP of the speaker cabinets, behind the speakers and on the surface where the speakers are placed. THEN measure the vibrations by hanging the vibration instrument in the air in the listening position... You will be surprised by the results, and you will find out that these isolation "pucks" "pads" "spikes" etc. will not make any difference regarding what you can hear, because the actual sound from the drivers WILL MASK those tiny defects any vibrations that might get introduced to the speaker resting furniture. Of course you'll need to perform a correctly executed A/B blind listening test several times with and without these isolation products... Prove me wrong guys...I look forward to this test, because I want to know if you actually can HEAR the difference, meaning is it actually POSSIBLE to hear any difference..... GOOD JOB guys, and HUG THAT CAT for me!! :)
Got this bang on Mark. Lost count of the times I've commented on other vlogs about not putting your monitors on top of a desk. Proper stands every time - and yes not the QuikLok wobbly shite ones. Mine are Ultimate Support MS-90s'. Not cheap but it's essential to get the fundamentals right before you start thinking about the toys.
As an aside, if one has active monitors and is thinking about using them in orientations other than what the manufacturer recommends, it might be a good idea to first contact the company, and ask them if placing the cabinets in alternate orientations could result in the heat from the internal power amps not venting properly... Over a period of time, a build-up of heat inside the cabinet might degrade (or even cause failure) of internal components. OTOH, the cabinets may be designed to vent properly regardless of their orientation, but it’s probably a good idea to at least shoot the manufacturer an email and ask, just to be sure. FWIW 😊🙏
Properly specified sorbothane pads are probably the best alternative for isolating the speaker from the stand. Much more effective than half a tennis ball or cheap foam, and much less expensive than the complex isolation stands shown.
i use sorbothane hemispheres under my Focals, my stands are not even vibrating anymore even at high volumes, i was lucky and i got 8 for 35€, now they seem impossible to get
during my research, I found the load of your speaker should be 75% of the combined rated load of sorbothane for highest efficiency. and try to measure out the bottom of your speakers into 1/4s and put each puck centered inside those quadrants.
I would like to see your take on various display placement in a studio, having a big screen on front wall or imac in your face? How about monitor placement when screen is in your face? Dual display screws speaker placement too wide? Plenty to discuss in this topic.
Interesting about the inverted two way speaker mode. I remember Mission did (do?) an entire range of inverted designs, and indeed I had a pair with my old Mission Cyrus amp for my hifi. The rationale was that the interactions with the tweeters in the crossover range in any two way system (at least for non phase aligned systems, IIRC) that meant that the lobe response would naturally "point downwards" to an extent, so by the use of the inverted driver, you could reverse that, and "beam" that critical crossover area slightly upwards. i.e towards the listening position, in the average home. Has to be said, it was a nice system at the time, on my budget.
Thank you so much, this was very helpful. Could you please make a video about which monitor specs to consider beyond a flat frequency response, e.g. frequency dependent decay time? Are there advantages of using 1-way speakers to avoid crossover interference issues?
Thanks for your comment! Yes, we are planning a video on various different types of monitor, at price points from budget to high end. But at the end of the day it’s very personal and you should really try before you buy if you can. I loved my Tannoys for years until I switched to ATC. Then all of a sudden the Tannoys sounded like expensive PA speakers! I’d have never thought I’d have got better stereo imaging from four large drivers in a box rather than one inside the other, but there we go!
Any chance on a vid for optimization for mixing film in 5.1? Having a hard time fitting my center channel vertically with two monitors in my face and a third on the wall behind.
Watched it all the way through. So basically, it is one guy sitting and talking to us all the way through. Plus, one really, truly old cat that cannot even keep his/her eyes open, he/she/it is so excited about all of this.
Hi Mark, great video once again! Timing seems to be perfect with regards to what you are posting and the issues that I am trying to correct in my home studio!! Couple of questions for you, which I hope you don’t mind answering. I have my NS10’s in a vertical position on iso acoustic stands. I realised that woofers are at ear level and not the tweeters! So I was wondering instead of raising stands and trying to point them downwards, could I flip them upside like you mentioned you did for Sam? As whilst this may not be conventional, it would be my preference as oppose to tilting them downwards. Do you think this would be ok? I also wondered whether decoupling the iso stands further from desktop as well as my K&M stands (for ilouds) to reduce vibrations would work well using recoil stabilisers under both current stands ? Do you have any personal experience with using the Prima acoustics recoil stabilisers and if so are they any good? Many thanks in advance.
Hi Ria! Yes, I’d flip them upside down rather than angle them down, but there are many people who would rather angle them, so give both a try if you can, and see what works best for you. I haven’t had any experience with recoil stabilisers, but most isolation mounts are reliant on the speakers having a significant amount of weight to them in order to work, and NS10s aren’t that heavy. So again, isolation from a desk is particularly important, more so than if the speakers were on stands, so my advice would be to give them a try and then return them if they don’t seem to make any audible difference.
@@PresentDayProduction thank you so much for coming back to me. Glad that flipping them should not be an issue, but I will give both options a try as suggested. I just need to eat some spinach first before attempting to dismantle the iso stands:-) as once they are put together they are quite difficult to come apart-but am sure it will be fine. Re. Recoils thanks for your input here. Funny you say NS10’s are not that weighty as I always thought they were!! I will also give the recoil a go and hopefully they will work-well at that price they better:-)!! thanks once again. Keep posting those great videos, they are such a great help.
I've been using cinderblocks as stands for a while but now gonna move to a new room and be able to acoustic treat for the first time. Feeling lazy moving the cinderblocks constantly to find the ideal listening position in the new room so thinking of pulling the trigger on nice stands.
In the last video, you mention that it doesn't make sense the treat the room before working out the speaker placement. By that same token though, would it make sense to shoot out speakers in an untreated space? This seems to be a particular "chicken or the egg" type scenario in my opinion... Before I can accurately select which speaker works best for my needs I need a somewhat accurate space to test them in. But if I want to set up my acoustics, I already need the speakers I want to use so I can see how they interact with the room. Is there any merit to testing speakers in the untreated room to see which one interacts best with it?
We’ll answer that very question in the next video, and I certainly wouldn’t want to shoot out speakers (as in try different ones) in an untreated room, but I’d certainly get the positioning right before looking at acoustic treatment, particularly for the low end
5:18 Why do you need the Tweeter-Midrange-Woofer orientation? Is there any tested experiment and explanation on this? I mean more important is the to have the Speaker acoustic center (most often the Tweeter or in between tweeter-Midrange) at ear height, NO?
I prefer them vertical, but many people need landscape oriented monitors - there may be big main monitors in the wall, or a window to the live room, and the horizontal orientation means it can be easer to get near/mid fields in position. I used these extensively in both orientations and if you held a gun to my head and asked me which was which I’d probably end up getting shot!
@@PresentDayProduction Thank you. I was asking more about the upside down configuration to get the Tweeter at ear height. Off course, using a vertical monitor in Horizontal position is not recommended, but usually no one talks about positioning Vertical monitors, vertically Upside down. Izotope's Mastering room use PMC bb5 (I guess or maybe bb6) in upside down orientation as seen on the newer Izotope videos by Johnathan Wyner.
hey, Mark. thanks a lot for this very helpful series. I'm refurbishing my room and planning on doing a standing setup. As I'm quite tall (1,89m) the speakers would be in pretty high stands. I thought that it could be easier to hang them on the ceiling. My first idea would be with steel wire with a wood support but they would be too loose wouldn't they? Everything would vibrate and wobble. The second thing I thought would be threaded rods. They would hold the support more firmier and i could isolate more the vibrations with rubber on the fixations. Do you think it is possible? Do you have any other suggestions for ceiling mounted stands? Thanks a lot!
Hi Gustavo, thanks for watching! My first inclination would be wall brackets, or simply stands that are tall enough. I think ceiling suspension would work if you could get everything tight enough, and not vibrating, but wall brackets or stands would be a far easier solution. Particularly stands - you can easily move them! And don’t forget that a stable column of concrete blocks works very, very well, so it needn’t cost a fortune. Or even regular stands ON concrete blocks.Hope that helps!
What's your opinion on coincident drivers like in the Pioneer RM series? To me the stereo imaging is better than anything else I've heard so far but many people don't like this design.
Very interesting! I would have liked to have some options as far as recommended stands since I don't know what brand or style is the one you presented in a picture.
Thoughts on in wall / soffit mounting? That's my goal at the new studio I'm in the progress of building. As you know it's more difficult (most apartment folks can't do it), but it seems far better for SBIR and edge diffraction issues. Plus it saves space!
Flush mounting is technically better if you can pull it off, but very very difficult to get right. The speakers need to be isolated from the wall (which usually means millimetre perfect building skills and perfectly straight stud work) and if you get the positioning out for your stereo imaging by even in inch or two it’s a LOT of work to put right!
@@PresentDayProduction Agreed. I'm putting probably 100x as much time and effort into getting this perfect as I ever have from placing speakers otherwise. Tons of effort, but I'm hoping it to both sound better and save 1/3 of the space in my room!
Do you know of any affordable high-quality speaker-stands that are easily available in the EU? I can’t find the example you gave anywhere. Also: would you put speaker-isolation-pucks under the stands as wel as between the speakers and the stands, or would you have the stands sit on the floor and only decouple the speakers from the stands? Thanks for your time!
Thanks for your question! I don’t know of many (if any) high quality speaker stands that are affordable, as if they’re good then they are quite difficult and expensive to manufacture. As for the decoupling, I’d decouple the speakers from the stands and follow the stand manufacturers guidelines as to what to do on the floor. Most high quality stands come with various types of feet to suit different flooring - wood/carpet etc. I’ll look into stands available in the EU and we’ll cover that in the final video in the series. Thanks again!
the cat on a leslie comment got a like from me. I always forget to hit it, even when people scream at me to SMASH THAT L I K E BUTTON. Totally earned it. Love the info and your dry wit. Carry on!
Glenn (spectre sound studios) just told me that those stands are fine, like two hours ago 🙈 It's always great to get different opinions though and I'm not getting speakers anytime soon (a few kids need to move out) so I have time to investigate.
We’ve just recorded a super interesting interview with Jesco from Acoustics Insider and he had some really interesting things to say about this topic! So hold on tight and that’ll be out within a week
Hi, as always, great advise. I'm in the process of setting up a studio and I have a set of Genelecs as near field monitors that came with wall plates. To give more distance I'm thinking of putting them on stands and using vulcanised rubber shock mountings (off small engine) to isolate them. Has this been tried before and if so what results?
Hi Rich, thank you for the kind words! I’d try them on stands first and see if that improves the positioning and stereo image for you. As Jesco said in the last part of this series, isolation isn’t always necessary if the speakers are on stands, and often the speakers aren’t heavy enough for the maths behind it to work - and I’m guessing that will be the case with the genelecs. So try them on their mounts, and try them on stands and see which works best for you if you can. Then see if there is any benefit to adding isolation, starting with something cheap like blutac maybe!
I had a set of speakers that I thought sounded terrible. I tried them out on some sand filled tube stands that I built and suddenly was like, "Wait, these are the same speakers? They have bass suddenly! Is the subwoofer on? No... huh"
I'm trying to find something useful in Amazon US. I am from Chile 🇨🇱 and got 5" Krk's but I can't decide if foam or stands are better... I just want a "best bang for the buck", option. Can you give me some advice on some alternatives?
Stands are definitely better - there are many excellent bang for buck options if your DIY skills are ok. A stack of concrete blocks is about as good as it gets, and I’ve successfully made stands at exactly the height required before by using heavy duty drain pipe filled with sand with a stop-bungs/blanking cap each end screwed to a square of plywood. Three fence posts screwed to ply also work very well, but ideally need something weighing them down at the bottom or fixing to the floor so as they aren’t top heavy. There are also many metal-tube style stands for the hi-fi market that work well that can be filled with sand. The three things you are looking for are sturdy support that doesn’t wobble or bend about, mass, and lack of resonance. I hope that helps! We’re actually going to do a video on this soon, so stay tuned!
Generally, sneakers would be placed on your feet. Or rather, your feet in the sneakers. In studio context my preferred sneaker placement is on the little shelf next to the door, as I prefer people not tracking mud & sand in :D Wool socks are the real studio footwear of win.
Because the market for speaker stands is really weird and not logical. There is thousands of these cheap ones, nothing in the midrange and then lots of super and absurdly expensive stands.
@@cryptout I now found a solution from a german store and its house brand. Good solid but still cheap wood stands. Search on MusicStore Köln for Fame stands
Hey y'all! I was wondering if a tripod design for speaker stands would work well. It seems like in theory, the stands would be stable(r) because it wouldn't just be a single pole with that triangular base. I haven't found any sand-filled cabinets in my budget, and feel uncomfortable with cinderblocks as I have a younger brother. Additionally, I'm not super worried about space and whether or not it's an eyesore. What do y'all think? Would these work well, or should I wait till I can increase my budget? Thank y'all so much for the great info!
Would be nice if you showed speaker stands. And I saw other videos with measuremnts that concrent/brick blocks are not the way to go. Talkin theoretically without showing example in pictures or real are pretty hmm ....
I have a triple (display) monitor setup which makes my viewing surface very wide - is it wrong/suboptimal to move the (audio) monitors to be beside the (display) monitors instead of where I have them currently, on stands to poke out above the (display) monitors? I've pointed them down slightly, but the tweeters are definitely going over my head, or at least hitting the top
I have this same setup (you can kind of see it in my profile pic), my Adams are literally next to the wall laying sideways and angled slightly downward over the LCD monitors, AND I'm using the triangular base stands! Supposedly these would all be no no's according to this video, but after doing alot of listening tests and room EQ with a mic, it actually works well enough for my needs! I did have a few problem frequencies (huge 50/125hz boost and 80hz notch, but I corrected it with room EQ and it's ok now! This will work until I can find a different room/setup, so I would say go for it!
@@johnargosino6218 Thanks for the reply! That's re-assuring. I've never particularly noticed issues with it, just wondering. What did you use for working out the corrective room EQ? I've been interested in checking out the sonarworks stuff but wasn't too keen on the cost, as I'm just a bedroom musician and only dealing with my own stuff lol
@@Swedishstylek I looked into sonarworks as well, but I read the instruction manual of my mixer (haha imagine that) it's a Roland VM-C7100 they don't make them anymore but it sounds and works great! Anyways, I found out it has a spectrum analyzer with pink/white noise/sine wave generator and 31 band EQ for room analysis and tuning, so I hooked up a mic and "fixed" those problem frequencies! I'm sure the sonarworks is better, more accurate and sophisticated, but there is no such thing as perfect frequency response in the real world anyways! How many people will be listening to your music in a recording studio right? It's headphones, car speakers, radios, etc so as long as you can control those problem frequencies it should be good enough!
You really need to experiment with this one. Standard advice didn’t work at all in the case of my screen, and I now have it in front of the monitors at the back of the desk, the position I tried to avoid! But if I take it away, everything sounds the same, so experimentation is the key here. Try removing the screens, or moving your speakers backwards and forwards behind and in front of them and see what happens. Then work the rest of your setup around that. BUT, remember priorities. I’m mastering, so monitor placement is critical, nothing else matters. If I was video editing, or film scoring, I’d probably prioritise the screens and compromise the speaker placement a little.
@@PresentDayProduction great advice! I'm in a tricky situation with regards to speaker setup, but I have to use 3 LCD screens for my workflow, so it works fine for now. Love your channel!
Great and informative video as always! :) However, I disagree in one point - I happen to have the exact model of cheap speaker stands you mentioned and got rid of unwanted sound distortions by putting 15 kg concrete blocks and some rubber pads under the speakers - works like a charm and saves a ton of money.
If the man with hands down the most awesome, well recorded and beautifully mixed intro and outro music on this entire platform is watching our videos we need to up the game again! Yes, I’m talking about you Gregory Scott!! Love your channel my friend... and that Rhodes.... ahhhhhh..... Kush = Lush!! So good ❤️❤️❤️
@@PresentDayProduction I am often amazed at the limitations that are revealed. It can't be that wrong. Microphones, for example, are often suspended in "spiders" with rubber bands in studio use.
Look at what Northward Acoustics do with ATC monitors in their glass walls. The speakers are mounted in metal enclosures and suspended from the ceiling (and fixed to the floor) using an incredibly well engineered system of steel cables on spring suspension mounts. It’s quite incredible (and sounds it too. And costs it!)
like the Gator Frameworks GFWSPKSTMNDSK Frameworks Desktop Studio Monitor Stand, the Gator Frameworks GFWSPKSTMNDSKCMP Frameworks Clamp-On Studio Monitor Stands or the IsoAcoustics ISO-130 Isolation Stand for Studio Monitors.
I haven’t tried them - I’d be worried about a lot of resonance getting into the desk with the Gator ones, so you’d need to isolate the speakers from the top platform. They look pretty sturdy though
Hey Mark! What are your thoughts on spikes at the bottom of speaker stands? I have some heavy duty stands that I filled with sand and always struggle getting all the spikes to sit at the same level (although I try my best). Are they really important?
They can work well depending on your flooring... and if you’re having trouble levelling them then try mounting only three if you can. Three will always level. I don’t find they make enough of a difference to use them myself, but what works for me might be different for you!
Hi Mark, just wanted to update: I flipped NS10’s in vertical position and it is the best thing I have done:-) tweeters are now at ear height and also ilouds are no longer obscuring part of NS10’s woofer like before, which is great! But most importantly NS10’s sound better and I am able to identify the instrumentation of tracks I was familiar with but never heard clearly before!!! Thanks so much for the tip! I know it’s not conventional and may get frowned upon by some but my ears are in favour and that’s the most important thing😄👍🏾
HAHAH I've just bought some cheap triangle base stands because in my mind I just need to get them away from the wall. Horse for courses, I think I'd have my priorities wrong if I spent more on stands than the speaker's costs themselves (budget setup with JBL A130s). Really surprised about the bricks solution as to me that's just replicating a solid surface of a desk you're trying to get them off in the first place but then I don't know what I'm talking about.
Those triangle base stands are the worst. Almost wrecked a good TV with one of those; it's showing effects from being hit, but since it's old now it doesn't matter too much
I only say this as you suggested it as a good idea. Just came from this video where they tested/measured with software some large Focal speakers on: concrete blocks, Cheap stands, expensive stands, and with/without ISO pucks. Would seem concrete blocks were the worst with the two stands better, but with not much difference between them. Then ISO pucks on expensive stands being the best combo (though they didn't do cheep stands with pucks for speak safety, one can only assume they would have performed the same/close to the expensive option) It would seem anything strong enough to hold the speaker, heavy enough not to move, with something to absorb any vibrations inside, and some speaker isolators, you'll be onto a winner! Video for reference - th-cam.com/video/TC96O99wAAg/w-d-xo.html Ps I do love your content
That was a quick heart. I can't do much about acoustical treatment currently, but I did lower my monitors a good 5-6" after watching this video. Thanks for that. I'm curious to see how that sounds. I've been using up higher for about two years since I got them.
That’s what this channel is about - so many others are about buying stuff, be it gear or courses, and you don’t need to do that to get good. In fact you’re better off not doing it. Can’t afford acoustic treatment yet? It doesn’t matter - you’ve just moved your monitors and it’s upped your game. That was free, and you’ve learned something that will make a big difference when you can afford treatment! So good for you. Don’t worry about being poor, it can be a very good thing!
I’m trying to perceive “Height” not high end. Height in a mix. Listen to the percussionist come in on the Dirty Harry soundtrack - not only can you tell where he is precisely in the stereo image, but you can see the three foot riser he must have been on in your minds eye, and exactly how far back he was. That level of detail you can’t get from having your speakers sideways or upside down. If you can’t hear it, you can’t hear it. But when you CAN... that’s when you up your game again.
a adequately designed speaker (pretty much any studio monitor) will not move or transfer audible resonance into the floor or speaker stand. dont listen to these guys who although well intentioned, make you feel like your cheap stands are not enough. and yes i've done scientific tests with both cheap and expensive stands, with no measurable difference when placed in identical positions.
Surely you don’t need to use anything if pretty much any studio monitor won’t move? You could just put them on jelly. Or sponge cake. Or hang them from elastic from the ceiling. They won’t move. Most studio monitors have that stuff in them that stops the reaction for every action law of physics, so you’ll be fine folks. They don’t pay attention to room acoustics either. Only hi-fi speakers do that.
Hey guys, I am actually looking into decent stands at the moment and regarding the cinder blocks, I just watched this video and Colt also used blocks. And in his tests, they had the worst results. What's your feedback on this? th-cam.com/video/TC96O99wAAg/w-d-xo.html
I'd expect a large portion of your viewers would be hobbyists and hence wouldn't have the room to put speakers behind their desk, nor the expendable money to invest in a pricey pair of stands. Does this mean accurate/decent sound is out of the question for us mere mortals?
No, the rest of us are fine. I really don't think that all of this is 100% necessary to make or mix music. The Nx Ocean Way Nashville plugin from Waves is awesome for headphone mixing. The first time I used it I forgot my headphones were on. Now if you're trying to crank out industry standard masters and impress big clients thats another story.
Not at all, decent sound is more than possible, and you absolutely should NOT stop making music or trying to achieve that because you can’t put your speakers in the right place! These videos are best case scenario, and it’s about priorities too. I’m mastering, for commercial and private clients, so my room and speakers absolutely have to be world class and perfectly optimised. If I was creating music for picture instead, I’d compromise the speaker placement to get the screens up closer and make sure I referenced my mixes on other systems and sent them to a proper mastering engineer rather than doing it myself. So for most people, use this advice as a foundation, it’s about compromise for most home situations. Unless you’re mastering commercially, then if your system isn’t telling what the low end is actually doing, you shouldn’t be doing it!
so few months after getting my monitor stands i’m learning they are crap. having a lovely sunday so far.
Same!
Same here. In fact the exact same ones shown as being a no-no :(
Sorry all! 🤷🏻♂️
At the very least, they're getting your speakers up to ear level instead of sitting on a desktop. Not worthless, but doing a lot less than you probably thought
Yep. Time to get some cinder blocks and better isolation pads (I have the foam pads too)
Great video- The only input I would like to add re: downward speaker placement:
in untreated and problematic rooms, downward speaker angles can actually reduce total mid/high freq reflections, as opposed to driving the sound energy directly toward the back wall.
In my experience w/ my own endless home studio configurations, as well as setting up temporary 5.1 screening stations for film festivals, elevating the speakers a couple inches, and then tilting them down, does far more good than harm.
Your brain naturally wants to orient your head in the direction of sound, and to this point- I don't feel like I have ever had any issues with either HF dispersion or head tilt issues when using slightly elevated, downward tilted monitors.
Thanks Sean, yeah this is very much one of those personal preference things. James loves our monitors pointing down in our main control room - I can’t stand it! It just doesn’t work for me.
If you're in the UK listening to an Aussie band such as AC/DC is it better to turn the speakers upside down or leave them as they are and stand on your head?
That’s such a STUPID question, obviously you need to turn the speakers upside down AND stand on your head! 🤪
@@PresentDayProduction Grasshopper is very grateful for the master's wisdom.
One speaker sideways, one speaker upside down, and smoke weed upside down while listening
I'm currently moving everything around to find the perfect positioning/listening position for the VSX, and so far the sweet spot for the SubPac is on my back, but going to experiment just in case I find a better position lol
2:43 as far as I know, concrete bricks are the worst for sound stands, because they transmit vibrations well.
I really love the cat! 😍
I've made stands on my desk with on top isoacoustics pucks and on top of that sorbothane pucks (measured for the weight of my speakers). They're fully isolated now and I've gotten a better sound then with my heavy sand filled stands. So on a desk isn't always bad if you do it properly. :)
Just had a thought. Maybe filling stands with sand doesn't really work that well because at a certain depth of sand the weight compresses the sand to much and become a solid block? Maybe if the same amount of sand was used but the sand was split between 5-6 compartments, more sand can 'activate'.
I agree to ALMOST all you guys say and do, but only to 99.99999999999999 percent (haha). This is about the "pucks" "spikes" "pads" to isolate the speakers... but first this story: A few years back I had horrible discussions on different internet forums regarding if dithering was audible in normal song tracks. I got so tired so I created an A/B test in flash with high quality audio files. I jump to the answer you want to read... the result, A LOT of people DID NOT take the test (afraid of being wrong I'm sure), and those who took the test FAILED. Nobody could actually HEAR the dithering. As if this was not enough, I also ran into discussions regarding low level/line cables regarding to buy or not to buy the super expensive ones and if they really improved the sound. So again, I got tired of the BS from all these people that I cut some "normal" hifi low level/line cables in half, soldered old screws and nails to the ends and completed the circuit by sticking these screw/nail connectors into different fruits and also potatoes. In the A/B test, nobody passed the test, meaning no one could HEAR any difference between the cut/modified and uncut cables. Surprise, right? AND SO NOW to my point... the vibrations presented by professional studio monitors or any good manufactured speaker should be so low in vibrations/volume that it would be impossible to actually HEAR what those vibrations could create in sound from other objects, not to mention what the WOOFER will create in the room regarding vibrations in objects in the room... so what's next? Foam on the actual speaker cone? (I'm kidding)...Anyway, now you can see my comparison with the dithering test. And so until you guys perform a CORRECTLY executed A/B test WITH vibration metering (NOT in front of the speakers), I will not like you a 100 percent, haha... Test the vibrating surface ON TOP of the speaker cabinets, behind the speakers and on the surface where the speakers are placed. THEN measure the vibrations by hanging the vibration instrument in the air in the listening position... You will be surprised by the results, and you will find out that these isolation "pucks" "pads" "spikes" etc. will not make any difference regarding what you can hear, because the actual sound from the drivers WILL MASK those tiny defects any vibrations that might get introduced to the speaker resting furniture. Of course you'll need to perform a correctly executed A/B blind listening test several times with and without these isolation products... Prove me wrong guys...I look forward to this test, because I want to know if you actually can HEAR the difference, meaning is it actually POSSIBLE to hear any difference..... GOOD JOB guys, and HUG THAT CAT for me!! :)
Got this bang on Mark. Lost count of the times I've commented on other vlogs about not putting your monitors on top of a desk. Proper stands every time - and yes not the QuikLok wobbly shite ones. Mine are Ultimate Support MS-90s'. Not cheap but it's essential to get the fundamentals right before you start thinking about the toys.
I was literally just thinking about moving things around in my "control room" when this video popped up. Perfect timing!
Some say the real brains of the operation is the cat... Great quality content as always!
You’re right!
also doubles as a bass trap
As an aside, if one has active monitors and is thinking about using them in orientations other than what the manufacturer recommends, it might be a good idea to first contact the company, and ask them if placing the cabinets in alternate orientations could result in the heat from the internal power amps not venting properly...
Over a period of time, a build-up of heat inside the cabinet might degrade (or even cause failure) of internal components.
OTOH, the cabinets may be designed to vent properly regardless of their orientation, but it’s probably a good idea to at least shoot the manufacturer an email and ask, just to be sure.
FWIW
😊🙏
That’s a very good point - a lot of people try and flush mount monitors that aren’t designed for it as well, resulting in similar heat build up
Can we get a video of just the cat on the leslie?
Yup!
The video I didn't ask for but needed! Thanks guys
Properly specified sorbothane pads are probably the best alternative for isolating the speaker from the stand. Much more effective than half a tennis ball or cheap foam, and much less expensive than the complex isolation stands shown.
i use sorbothane hemispheres under my Focals, my stands are not even vibrating anymore even at high volumes, i was lucky and i got 8 for 35€, now they seem impossible to get
during my research, I found the load of your speaker should be 75% of the combined rated load of sorbothane for highest efficiency. and try to measure out the bottom of your speakers into 1/4s and put each puck centered inside those quadrants.
@@masocre Interesting... I have mine right at each corner; maybe I'll move then in next time I clean. Thanks!
@@davidkulmaczewski4911 Happy to give my 2 cents. It's awesome to see other people using sorbothane. Let me know how it sounds to you.
This video posted 6 months ago would have saved me days of TH-cam research. Very informative 👍
I would like to see your take on various display placement in a studio, having a big screen on front wall or imac in your face? How about monitor placement when screen is in your face? Dual display screws speaker placement too wide? Plenty to discuss in this topic.
Brilliant advice, thanks for sharing.
Interesting about the inverted two way speaker mode. I remember Mission did (do?) an entire range of inverted designs, and indeed I had a pair with my old Mission Cyrus amp for my hifi. The rationale was that the interactions with the tweeters in the crossover range in any two way system (at least for non phase aligned systems, IIRC) that meant that the lobe response would naturally "point downwards" to an extent, so by the use of the inverted driver, you could reverse that, and "beam" that critical crossover area slightly upwards. i.e towards the listening position, in the average home.
Has to be said, it was a nice system at the time, on my budget.
I remember the old Mission systems! They were great
Ear Twitch @ 6:39 !
I have the stands at 1:34, they work perfectly fine
They probably work fine at holding the speakers up... but try some more solid ones if you can and notice the difference it can make!
Thank you so much, this was very helpful.
Could you please make a video about which monitor specs to consider beyond a flat frequency response, e.g. frequency dependent decay time? Are there advantages of using 1-way speakers to avoid crossover interference issues?
Thanks for your comment! Yes, we are planning a video on various different types of monitor, at price points from budget to high end. But at the end of the day it’s very personal and you should really try before you buy if you can. I loved my Tannoys for years until I switched to ATC. Then all of a sudden the Tannoys sounded like expensive PA speakers! I’d have never thought I’d have got better stereo imaging from four large drivers in a box rather than one inside the other, but there we go!
What make is the speaker stand you referenced in the video please?
Any chance on a vid for optimization for mixing film in 5.1? Having a hard time fitting my center channel vertically with two monitors in my face and a third on the wall behind.
What is that 4 column speaker stand you recommend?
Cat on a Leslie ! Don't hear that too often. We had a B3 with a Leslie from Geoff Professionals.
I get the servants to hold the monitors in place when I'm working.
Watched it all the way through. So basically, it is one guy sitting and talking to us all the way through. Plus, one really, truly old cat that cannot even keep his/her eyes open, he/she/it is so excited about all of this.
So hard to find a good cat on a Leslie video these days.
Speaker info was useful too.
Hi Mark, great video once again! Timing seems to be perfect with regards to what you are posting and the issues that I am trying to correct in my home studio!! Couple of questions for you, which I hope you don’t mind answering. I have my NS10’s in a vertical position on iso acoustic stands. I realised that woofers are at ear level and not the tweeters! So I was wondering instead of raising stands and trying to point them downwards, could I flip them upside like you mentioned you did for Sam? As whilst this may not be conventional, it would be my preference as oppose to tilting them downwards. Do you think this would be ok? I also wondered whether decoupling the iso stands further from desktop as well as my K&M stands (for ilouds) to reduce vibrations would work well using recoil stabilisers under both current stands ? Do you have any personal experience with using the Prima acoustics recoil stabilisers and if so are they any good? Many thanks in advance.
Hi Ria! Yes, I’d flip them upside down rather than angle them down, but there are many people who would rather angle them, so give both a try if you can, and see what works best for you. I haven’t had any experience with recoil stabilisers, but most isolation mounts are reliant on the speakers having a significant amount of weight to them in order to work, and NS10s aren’t that heavy. So again, isolation from a desk is particularly important, more so than if the speakers were on stands, so my advice would be to give them a try and then return them if they don’t seem to make any audible difference.
@@PresentDayProduction thank you so much for coming back to me. Glad that flipping them should not be an issue, but I will give both options a try as suggested. I just need to eat some spinach first before attempting to dismantle the iso stands:-) as once they are put together they are quite difficult to come apart-but am sure it will be fine. Re. Recoils thanks for your input here. Funny you say NS10’s are not that weighty as I always thought they were!! I will also give the recoil a go and hopefully they will work-well at that price they better:-)!! thanks once again. Keep posting those great videos, they are such a great help.
Hot the tumb down twice clever man you are !!
Great shout with concrete blocks!!!!!
Yay, more kitty footage! And the monitor placement info was good too. :P
I've been using cinderblocks as stands for a while but now gonna move to a new room and be able to acoustic treat for the first time. Feeling lazy moving the cinderblocks constantly to find the ideal listening position in the new room so thinking of pulling the trigger on nice stands.
Good information as usual, only one question is the cat called Honor or Lesley?✌️😀👍
Neither, he’s called Flop!
In the last video, you mention that it doesn't make sense the treat the room before working out the speaker placement. By that same token though, would it make sense to shoot out speakers in an untreated space? This seems to be a particular "chicken or the egg" type scenario in my opinion...
Before I can accurately select which speaker works best for my needs I need a somewhat accurate space to test them in. But if I want to set up my acoustics, I already need the speakers I want to use so I can see how they interact with the room. Is there any merit to testing speakers in the untreated room to see which one interacts best with it?
We’ll answer that very question in the next video, and I certainly wouldn’t want to shoot out speakers (as in try different ones) in an untreated room, but I’d certainly get the positioning right before looking at acoustic treatment, particularly for the low end
I have a cardioid sub system, sub onl going in one direction, front wall reflection problem gone….
5:18 Why do you need the Tweeter-Midrange-Woofer orientation? Is there any tested experiment and explanation on this? I mean more important is the to have the Speaker acoustic center (most often the Tweeter or in between tweeter-Midrange) at ear height, NO?
I prefer them vertical, but many people need landscape oriented monitors - there may be big main monitors in the wall, or a window to the live room, and the horizontal orientation means it can be easer to get near/mid fields in position. I used these extensively in both orientations and if you held a gun to my head and asked me which was which I’d probably end up getting shot!
@@PresentDayProduction Thank you.
I was asking more about the upside down configuration to get the Tweeter at ear height. Off course, using a vertical monitor in Horizontal position is not recommended, but usually no one talks about positioning Vertical monitors, vertically Upside down.
Izotope's Mastering room use PMC bb5 (I guess or maybe bb6) in upside down orientation as seen on the newer Izotope videos by Johnathan Wyner.
hey, Mark. thanks a lot for this very helpful series. I'm refurbishing my room and planning on doing a standing setup. As I'm quite tall (1,89m) the speakers would be in pretty high stands. I thought that it could be easier to hang them on the ceiling. My first idea would be with steel wire with a wood support but they would be too loose wouldn't they? Everything would vibrate and wobble. The second thing I thought would be threaded rods. They would hold the support more firmier and i could isolate more the vibrations with rubber on the fixations. Do you think it is possible? Do you have any other suggestions for ceiling mounted stands? Thanks a lot!
Hi Gustavo, thanks for watching! My first inclination would be wall brackets, or simply stands that are tall enough. I think ceiling suspension would work if you could get everything tight enough, and not vibrating, but wall brackets or stands would be a far easier solution. Particularly stands - you can easily move them! And don’t forget that a stable column of concrete blocks works very, very well, so it needn’t cost a fortune. Or even regular stands ON concrete blocks.Hope that helps!
What's your opinion on coincident drivers like in the Pioneer RM series? To me the stereo imaging is better than anything else I've heard so far but many people don't like this design.
Very interesting! I would have liked to have some options as far as recommended stands since I don't know what brand or style is the one you presented in a picture.
Thoughts on in wall / soffit mounting? That's my goal at the new studio I'm in the progress of building. As you know it's more difficult (most apartment folks can't do it), but it seems far better for SBIR and edge diffraction issues. Plus it saves space!
Flush mounting is technically better if you can pull it off, but very very difficult to get right. The speakers need to be isolated from the wall (which usually means millimetre perfect building skills and perfectly straight stud work) and if you get the positioning out for your stereo imaging by even in inch or two it’s a LOT of work to put right!
@@PresentDayProduction Agreed. I'm putting probably 100x as much time and effort into getting this perfect as I ever have from placing speakers otherwise. Tons of effort, but I'm hoping it to both sound better and save 1/3 of the space in my room!
It’s worth the extra effort! Kudos to you for your dedication, it will pay off
Do you know of any affordable high-quality speaker-stands that are easily available in the EU? I can’t find the example you gave anywhere. Also: would you put speaker-isolation-pucks under the stands as wel as between the speakers and the stands, or would you have the stands sit on the floor and only decouple the speakers from the stands?
Thanks for your time!
Thanks for your question! I don’t know of many (if any) high quality speaker stands that are affordable, as if they’re good then they are quite difficult and expensive to manufacture. As for the decoupling, I’d decouple the speakers from the stands and follow the stand manufacturers guidelines as to what to do on the floor. Most high quality stands come with various types of feet to suit different flooring - wood/carpet etc. I’ll look into stands available in the EU and we’ll cover that in the final video in the series. Thanks again!
nice to see this.. .right the day after buying one pair of those stands who he does not recommend... :D : D :D
You featured the cat
the cat on a leslie comment got a like from me. I always forget to hit it, even when people scream at me to SMASH THAT L I K E BUTTON. Totally earned it. Love the info and your dry wit. Carry on!
Glenn (spectre sound studios) just told me that those stands are fine, like two hours ago 🙈
It's always great to get different opinions though and I'm not getting speakers anytime soon (a few kids need to move out) so I have time to investigate.
We’ve just recorded a super interesting interview with Jesco from Acoustics Insider and he had some really interesting things to say about this topic! So hold on tight and that’ll be out within a week
Hi, as always, great advise. I'm in the process of setting up a studio and I have a set of Genelecs as near field monitors that came with wall plates. To give more distance I'm thinking of putting them on stands and using vulcanised rubber shock mountings (off small engine) to isolate them. Has this been tried before and if so what results?
Hi Rich, thank you for the kind words! I’d try them on stands first and see if that improves the positioning and stereo image for you. As Jesco said in the last part of this series, isolation isn’t always necessary if the speakers are on stands, and often the speakers aren’t heavy enough for the maths behind it to work - and I’m guessing that will be the case with the genelecs. So try them on their mounts, and try them on stands and see which works best for you if you can. Then see if there is any benefit to adding isolation, starting with something cheap like blutac maybe!
I had a set of speakers that I thought sounded terrible. I tried them out on some sand filled tube stands that I built and suddenly was like, "Wait, these are the same speakers? They have bass suddenly! Is the subwoofer on? No... huh"
if a speaker has only one driver (like some high quality desktop speakers), can be placed horizontally?
What speaker stands would you suggest for my b&w cdm 9nt's?
Correct don't hate.
I'm trying to find something useful in Amazon US. I am from Chile 🇨🇱 and got 5" Krk's but I can't decide if foam or stands are better... I just want a "best bang for the buck", option.
Can you give me some advice on some alternatives?
Stands are definitely better - there are many excellent bang for buck options if your DIY skills are ok. A stack of concrete blocks is about as good as it gets, and I’ve successfully made stands at exactly the height required before by using heavy duty drain pipe filled with sand with a stop-bungs/blanking cap each end screwed to a square of plywood. Three fence posts screwed to ply also work very well, but ideally need something weighing them down at the bottom or fixing to the floor so as they aren’t top heavy. There are also many metal-tube style stands for the hi-fi market that work well that can be filled with sand. The three things you are looking for are sturdy support that doesn’t wobble or bend about, mass, and lack of resonance. I hope that helps! We’re actually going to do a video on this soon, so stay tuned!
@@PresentDayProduction Hey there! Did you make such a video? Best
*watches video*
*looks at stands* (same style as shown as 'don't use these', the single pole triangle-base stands)
*cries in beer*
Same haha
yes yes all good but what about the black magic of sneaker placement?
Which is.....? 🤣
Generally, sneakers would be placed on your feet. Or rather, your feet in the sneakers. In studio context my preferred sneaker placement is on the little shelf next to the door, as I prefer people not tracking mud & sand in :D
Wool socks are the real studio footwear of win.
ouch those not to use stands are exactly the ones I own. I guess I’ll be buying new ones soon.
Yep! Same here, haha!
Because the market for speaker stands is really weird and not logical. There is thousands of these cheap ones, nothing in the midrange and then lots of super and absurdly expensive stands.
@@KYTHERAOfficial I saw that, if anybody can recommend anything it might help some people.
@@cryptout I now found a solution from a german store and its house brand. Good solid but still cheap wood stands. Search on MusicStore Köln for Fame stands
@@KYTHERAOfficial Ah MusicStore, I'm a customer there. I will check it out. Thanks!
Those speakers look a bit like the hand made ATC SCM 200s I saw on MJQ the other day
Yup, fully serviced and re-cabineted. And they’re AWESOME!!
forgive me for asking but do you ever use rear speakers to make a 5.1
Great video thank you 😊
Yes, a 5.1 system is a centre, front left, front right, rear left and rear right speaker
Some monitors are massive enough that other isolation techniques are not really necessary. Folks need not feel bad about their triangle based stands.
The heavier the better too. Ours weigh 70KG each, so isolation is non-existent!
Hey y'all! I was wondering if a tripod design for speaker stands would work well. It seems like in theory, the stands would be stable(r) because it wouldn't just be a single pole with that triangular base. I haven't found any sand-filled cabinets in my budget, and feel uncomfortable with cinderblocks as I have a younger brother. Additionally, I'm not super worried about space and whether or not it's an eyesore. What do y'all think? Would these work well, or should I wait till I can increase my budget? Thank y'all so much for the great info!
Yeah for sure, a tripod should be a lot more stable than the pole type
@@PresentDayProduction Alright cool, thank y'all for the clarification c:
Would be nice if you showed speaker stands. And I saw other videos with measuremnts that concrent/brick blocks are not the way to go. Talkin theoretically without showing example in pictures or real are pretty hmm ....
I have a triple (display) monitor setup which makes my viewing surface very wide - is it wrong/suboptimal to move the (audio) monitors to be beside the (display) monitors instead of where I have them currently, on stands to poke out above the (display) monitors? I've pointed them down slightly, but the tweeters are definitely going over my head, or at least hitting the top
I have this same setup (you can kind of see it in my profile pic), my Adams are literally next to the wall laying sideways and angled slightly downward over the LCD monitors, AND I'm using the triangular base stands! Supposedly these would all be no no's according to this video, but after doing alot of listening tests and room EQ with a mic, it actually works well enough for my needs! I did have a few problem frequencies (huge 50/125hz boost and 80hz notch, but I corrected it with room EQ and it's ok now! This will work until I can find a different room/setup, so I would say go for it!
@@johnargosino6218 Thanks for the reply! That's re-assuring. I've never particularly noticed issues with it, just wondering. What did you use for working out the corrective room EQ? I've been interested in checking out the sonarworks stuff but wasn't too keen on the cost, as I'm just a bedroom musician and only dealing with my own stuff lol
@@Swedishstylek I looked into sonarworks as well, but I read the instruction manual of my mixer (haha imagine that) it's a Roland VM-C7100 they don't make them anymore but it sounds and works great! Anyways, I found out it has a spectrum analyzer with pink/white noise/sine wave generator and 31 band EQ for room analysis and tuning, so I hooked up a mic and "fixed" those problem frequencies! I'm sure the sonarworks is better, more accurate and sophisticated, but there is no such thing as perfect frequency response in the real world anyways! How many people will be listening to your music in a recording studio right? It's headphones, car speakers, radios, etc so as long as you can control those problem frequencies it should be good enough!
You really need to experiment with this one. Standard advice didn’t work at all in the case of my screen, and I now have it in front of the monitors at the back of the desk, the position I tried to avoid! But if I take it away, everything sounds the same, so experimentation is the key here. Try removing the screens, or moving your speakers backwards and forwards behind and in front of them and see what happens. Then work the rest of your setup around that. BUT, remember priorities. I’m mastering, so monitor placement is critical, nothing else matters. If I was video editing, or film scoring, I’d probably prioritise the screens and compromise the speaker placement a little.
@@PresentDayProduction great advice! I'm in a tricky situation with regards to speaker setup, but I have to use 3 LCD screens for my workflow, so it works fine for now. Love your channel!
Great and informative video as always! :) However, I disagree in one point - I happen to have the exact model of cheap speaker stands you mentioned and got rid of unwanted sound distortions by putting 15 kg concrete blocks and some rubber pads under the speakers - works like a charm and saves a ton of money.
You put 15kg of concrete on THOSE STANDS?!?! 😱😱😱😱 whatever works!
@@PresentDayProduction They are supposed to handle up to 45kg (and I almost believe them 😅 )
This was clearly written by someone who doesn't live in an earthquake zone... or so I hope! 😛
If the man with hands down the most awesome, well recorded and beautifully mixed intro and outro music on this entire platform is watching our videos we need to up the game again! Yes, I’m talking about you Gregory Scott!! Love your channel my friend... and that Rhodes.... ahhhhhh..... Kush = Lush!! So good ❤️❤️❤️
What's wrong with hanging the speakers on rubber ropes?
That would save all the fiddling about with stands and uncoupling.
Bungee jumping speakers, I love it
@@PresentDayProduction I am often amazed at the limitations that are revealed.
It can't be that wrong. Microphones, for example, are often suspended in "spiders" with rubber bands in studio use.
Look at what Northward Acoustics do with ATC monitors in their glass walls. The speakers are mounted in metal enclosures and suspended from the ceiling (and fixed to the floor) using an incredibly well engineered system of steel cables on spring suspension mounts. It’s quite incredible (and sounds it too. And costs it!)
almost bought those cheap metal stands... thank you for advice.
Are those desktop clamp monitor stands any good
Which ones do you mean, Justin?
like the Gator Frameworks GFWSPKSTMNDSK Frameworks Desktop Studio Monitor Stand, the Gator Frameworks GFWSPKSTMNDSKCMP Frameworks Clamp-On Studio Monitor Stands or the IsoAcoustics ISO-130 Isolation Stand for Studio Monitors.
I haven’t tried them - I’d be worried about a lot of resonance getting into the desk with the Gator ones, so you’d need to isolate the speakers from the top platform. They look pretty sturdy though
I thought so, thank you for the advice.
Hey Mark! What are your thoughts on spikes at the bottom of speaker stands? I have some heavy duty stands that I filled with sand and always struggle getting all the spikes to sit at the same level (although I try my best). Are they really important?
They can work well depending on your flooring... and if you’re having trouble levelling them then try mounting only three if you can. Three will always level. I don’t find they make enough of a difference to use them myself, but what works for me might be different for you!
@@PresentDayProduction Thanks Mark! Will be experimenting with that shortly.
The very best of this video was your cat...ok, the other stuff was very helpful. Thanks for sharing with us.
Hi Mark, just wanted to update: I flipped NS10’s in vertical position and it is the best thing I have done:-) tweeters are now at ear height and also ilouds are no longer obscuring part of NS10’s woofer like before, which is great! But most importantly NS10’s sound better and I am able to identify the instrumentation of tracks I was familiar with but never heard clearly before!!! Thanks so much for the tip! I know it’s not conventional and may get frowned upon by some but my ears are in favour and that’s the most important thing😄👍🏾
Brilliant! That’s great news! Like new, better speakers without having to buy new, better speakers! Nice one Ria, thanks for the update!
Exactly that😄!! Thanks once again.
Second. But a huge fan of yours!!
HAHAH I've just bought some cheap triangle base stands because in my mind I just need to get them away from the wall. Horse for courses, I think I'd have my priorities wrong if I spent more on stands than the speaker's costs themselves (budget setup with JBL A130s). Really surprised about the bricks solution as to me that's just replicating a solid surface of a desk you're trying to get them off in the first place but then I don't know what I'm talking about.
Those triangle base stands are the worst. Almost wrecked a good TV with one of those; it's showing effects from being hit, but since it's old now it doesn't matter too much
FIRST!!! Is that cheating?!
reported!
Lol
pffff
Most certainly is 😀
Reported
I only say this as you suggested it as a good idea. Just came from this video where they tested/measured with software some large Focal speakers on: concrete blocks, Cheap stands, expensive stands, and with/without ISO pucks. Would seem concrete blocks were the worst with the two stands better, but with not much difference between them. Then ISO pucks on expensive stands being the best combo (though they didn't do cheep stands with pucks for speak safety, one can only assume they would have performed the same/close to the expensive option)
It would seem anything strong enough to hold the speaker, heavy enough not to move, with something to absorb any vibrations inside, and some speaker isolators, you'll be onto a winner!
Video for reference - th-cam.com/video/TC96O99wAAg/w-d-xo.html
Ps I do love your content
I think that I'm going to learn a lot from the channel, but I'm also going to learn exactly how poor I am.
That was a quick heart. I can't do much about acoustical treatment currently, but I did lower my monitors a good 5-6" after watching this video. Thanks for that. I'm curious to see how that sounds. I've been using up higher for about two years since I got them.
That’s what this channel is about - so many others are about buying stuff, be it gear or courses, and you don’t need to do that to get good. In fact you’re better off not doing it. Can’t afford acoustic treatment yet? It doesn’t matter - you’ve just moved your monitors and it’s upped your game. That was free, and you’ve learned something that will make a big difference when you can afford treatment! So good for you. Don’t worry about being poor, it can be a very good thing!
Need a cat..... and a Leslie :-)
No it's not concrete blocks you want cement blocks or better still cinder breezeblocks
What’s the difference between a concrete block and a cement block? It’s cement unmixed concrete? And why lighter breezeblocks?
@@PresentDayProduction well it's just made with cement and maybe Ash there is no sand or aggregate like concrete contains a lot of bubbles like sponge
Flipping a speaker upside down because rarely a speaker has equal directivity in upper or lower direction.
A cat on a Leslie?
That's a sacrilege!
Please let me know if you want to sell your Leslie. I can offer a soft pillow for the cat.
Man, love your videos, not the cat
Wut?
I don't even like music, I'm just here for the cat videos.
🐈 ✅
🎧 ❌
@@LongshanMusic lol
The cat stays! 😻
@@PresentDayProduction
Yay! Now all we need is a Great Dane, and we're ready to make music AND solve crime!
@@LongshanMusic Hamlet?
The cat acts as a bass trap
"im. trying to percieve high end, and having the tweeters under the mid driver would make that impossible"
*Barefoot Sound has entered the chat*
I’m trying to perceive “Height” not high end. Height in a mix. Listen to the percussionist come in on the Dirty Harry soundtrack - not only can you tell where he is precisely in the stereo image, but you can see the three foot riser he must have been on in your minds eye, and exactly how far back he was. That level of detail you can’t get from having your speakers sideways or upside down. If you can’t hear it, you can’t hear it. But when you CAN... that’s when you up your game again.
@@PresentDayProduction I know what you meant haha I was just making a funny comment
One hopes that Leslie doesn't mind. . .
It’s has far worse on it, as the stains will testify!
Sorry I'm late-I guess you guys don't watch Formula 1.
I am going to dispute your claim about "decoupling" systems.
En Garde!
What??? This video is a month too late. I already just got those stands.
Bro said concrete blocks 😭😭⚰
a adequately designed speaker (pretty much any studio monitor) will not move or transfer audible resonance into the floor or speaker stand. dont listen to these guys who although well intentioned, make you feel like your cheap stands are not enough. and yes i've done scientific tests with both cheap and expensive stands, with no measurable difference when placed in identical positions.
also iso acoustics and pucks ect dont do shit. use blutac.
Surely you don’t need to use anything if pretty much any studio monitor won’t move? You could just put them on jelly. Or sponge cake. Or hang them from elastic from the ceiling. They won’t move. Most studio monitors have that stuff in them that stops the reaction for every action law of physics, so you’ll be fine folks. They don’t pay attention to room acoustics either. Only hi-fi speakers do that.
Curious if the computer screens affect phantom center if you have it set up like 3:38 ? thanks
Hey guys, I am actually looking into decent stands at the moment and regarding the cinder blocks, I just watched this video and Colt also used blocks. And in his tests, they had the worst results. What's your feedback on this?
th-cam.com/video/TC96O99wAAg/w-d-xo.html
*looks at my speaker-stands in disgust*
I'd expect a large portion of your viewers would be hobbyists and hence wouldn't have the room to put speakers behind their desk, nor the expendable money to invest in a pricey pair of stands. Does this mean accurate/decent sound is out of the question for us mere mortals?
No, the rest of us are fine. I really don't think that all of this is 100% necessary to make or mix music. The Nx Ocean Way Nashville plugin from Waves is awesome for headphone mixing. The first time I used it I forgot my headphones were on. Now if you're trying to crank out industry standard masters and impress big clients thats another story.
Not at all, decent sound is more than possible, and you absolutely should NOT stop making music or trying to achieve that because you can’t put your speakers in the right place! These videos are best case scenario, and it’s about priorities too. I’m mastering, for commercial and private clients, so my room and speakers absolutely have to be world class and perfectly optimised. If I was creating music for picture instead, I’d compromise the speaker placement to get the screens up closer and make sure I referenced my mixes on other systems and sent them to a proper mastering engineer rather than doing it myself. So for most people, use this advice as a foundation, it’s about compromise for most home situations. Unless you’re mastering commercially, then if your system isn’t telling what the low end is actually doing, you shouldn’t be doing it!
@@PresentDayProduction Phew :)