Someday it would be great if you could give a more complete explanation of the factors which cause speakers to have their characteristic impedance. The other thing I would love more information on is what causes the big peaks in the impedance graphs and what effect those peaks have on sound quality.
JBL is a shadow of its former self. A marketing company these days, nothing more nothing less…with a rare good product they still manage to release from time to time. Hence, I’m not surprised.
I was just thinking about this before, virtually all great companies, become a highly recognized name then they start charging for the name and dropping the quality. This usually happens when the people that created the company die and then "educated" people come in and figure out anything they can to boost the bottom line. Then an new company comes in and kicks their butts in quality for half the price. With JBL monitors, Kali Audio comes to mind. Soem of the talented JBL guys started Kali audio and now make way better monitors for less money.
The original version of this speaker was the LSR32, and really used carbon fiber for the front baffle (not a veneer). As well the two way version, the LSR 28 which was self powered. Both intended as studio monitors, I'm sure ^That^ cost caught up with them and they found a cheaper "equivalent". IIR they wrote several White Papers about their new innovative drivers and incredibly flat off axis response.
@@morlidor, I did the B&W 602 S2 upgrade and they're significantly better now, most noticeably the much tighter bass response. Sound stage is wider and the horrid sibilance on the female vocals is gone, but there’s more snare drum snap, which I like. And a really fun project to do. I'm thinking of sending a pair of B&W CM6 S2's for some help.
@@morlidor Seldom is not accurate either. In almost every upgrade video there is at least 1 or 2 or more people that have done the upgrade.that have comment in the comment section. Just look at the post above yours wheelbasemedia5814 has done it. SMDH
For anyone thinking about building a 3-way.. this speaker is a great example of the fact that even big name like JBL will struggle with this..... The impedance dips... Reminds me of some of my first attempts at my own crossovers where I failed to look at the whole picture and solve ALL the considerations. Shunting a ton of power back to the amp to try to drag response/phase around is a bad idea but it's an easy trap to fall into while simulating a circuit.
It's hard to believe that Harman, an 8 billion dollar company would build such crap under the once revered JBL name. Oh yeah, this is why they're an 8 billion dollar company.
Sorry, I've never been impressed with JBL. I could count on one hand the number of speakers they have ever built in their entire history that I would consider good.
It’s crazy how they use the cheapest and easiest parts to make profit margin at the expense of better parts. You have hundreds of millions you can put into testing.
Remarkable improvement in frequency response, one of the best you have achieved, after your redesign the only caveat is the remaining ringing on the low mid that maybe is the box but excellent frequency response
I have tested all the spirits lmao and i can say u are the most knowledgeable i have come across on youtube dealing with audio. I dont even think paul at ps audio can fit in your shoes.
Danny I don't comment that much but I'm really impressed by this upgrade and at the same time upset with a big company like JBL for charging so much for all these cheap parts.
Hi, another great video 👍 Would there be any benefit to placing some hi density material on the frame of the stamped woofer or midrange basket.. Would this reduce any ringing.. Kind regards from Turkey 👍
The biggest downside of that speaker seems to be the dip to the 2 ohm range. That is an absolute problem for most receivers most would be trying to use.
Idk how anyone can argue with you're result's Danny! Just rubbish. Ribbish I say! 😂 Love the channel good honest information layed out in a clean concise manner thats easy to understand and learn from! You've answered more questions and taught me more than any other channel that I've watched. Haters will hate! Lovers will love!
$900 for a pair of crossover parts, tubes, etc. It doesn't include the boards, even if it did I wouldn't know what to do with all those parts. I use 3 for my theater and they really rock, they get super loud so I am not surprised at their impedance. Marantz AV8801 to Nord NCx500 3 channel, 62 vol is my limit it is super loud but very clear. I bet this kit helps a lot, I admit they don't sound anything like any of my other speakers.
Nice one Danny. Might be one of my favourite upgrades you’ve done. Some people may think that a company like JBL would throw resource at a product like this, but quite the opposite is likely. This was likely done super quick and maybe even by the post grad engineer who had very little experience. The worst thing about the original design is the impedance minimums. That suggests to me some quite flawed design work given the driver’s nominal impedances.
Odd. The published specifications are MUCH different than what is presented here. For anyone interested, simply look up the specs - they include on-axis, spatially averaged, first reflected and total radiated sound into a room. Perhaps something wrong with this pair? Would JBL just "make up the specs" ?
Looking at the impedance, Danny's & JBL curves match pretty well. However the phase angle at the low Z points is low so may not be as bad an issue. Also, Danny's mods gave up several dB in sensitivity.
@@dannyrichie9743 Your Z measurements match pretty closely. What is divergent is the on-axis. Also, Harman does some spatial averaging where your measurements will differ. It's clear (to me) that Harman did some detailed work on these (LRS32 & LSR6332), and for the most part succeeded. By comparison, the L100's from the 70's basically used a cap for a xover...
@@Tuberhead1000 You think an uneven frequency response, driver break up, unbraced cabinets that are buzzing all over the place, and impedance dips to 2 ohms is succeeding? These speakers were a disaster.
@@veroman007 Never was, still isn't. I own a pair of old school L88. Did you see Danny's 4311 review? "It's just a disaster!" It was the professional version of the consumer L100. I was in love with the L300's back in the day. Until I was exposed to actual good speakers.
@@morlidor I own a set of L88. I know someone with 4355s I've listened to. Way back in the day I lived in Nashville and repped hi end audio like Marantz, Audio Technica, Signet, Acoustic Research, ... I have some sales sample RTR speakers. Heard 4311s in many studios. L100, L300... If what you are after is high efficiency sis boom, old school Cerwin Vega is better. Gene was an interesting character.
The entire LSR series never sounded good to me at all. There is good reason they're not more popular or ever mentioned as a staple in the world of audio production.
Danny, how long did it take you to sort out this speaker? How come companies like JBL are unable to get similar results in what was likely a magnitude longer development time?
I've been on the fence on sending my ELAC towers to Danny for improvement. I don't know if they can be improved. I've been waiting to see if somebody send them. I'm expecting to hear: Sorry, I can't do anything other that putting better parts in the crossover, at the end is an Andrew Jones design.
We've looked at one of the Elac towers. Andrew used some really large value electrolytic caps in the woofer circuits, and in more than one place. Just upgrading those values to a base level poly cap (what they need) gets expensive quickly. They also eat up a lot of space and that speaker doesn't have a lot of internal space. It really isn't a good candidate for an upgrade.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh… I see. Also, I would say that towers MSRP and new crossovers parts investment are not justifiable. Better speakers would be the way to go; regardless of the fact that I could have the crossovers outside the box. Is that right?
amazing again. this is a guilty pleasure of mine i admit. watching you transform pigs ears into silk purses..... it follows the Pygmalion script and is very satisfying.
JBL uses those same dirpy binding posts on much cheaper AND much more expensive speakers. If there was a home theater receiver that "Could Handle 4ohms" It would be so expensive you'd get better and cheaper performance with some rackmount amps and an older THX receiver from the mid 2000's as a processor pre-amp. Newer home theater receivers are pure junk for any speaker under 8ohms. It will get hot and sound bad driving any 4 or 6 ohm speaker. If I connected a 4 ohm speaker to Billy (Denon AVR-X2500H) He'd provably melt the faceplate plastic.
Those commercial JBL speakers just don't work very well in home theater/audio. That speaker is made to be hung from a ceiling in a room full of people with a big Crown amp behind it. I have a commercial Crown, 1200 watts @ 8 ohms, rated down to 2 ohms
Again keep in mind the price point of these speakers..msrp is only $1900 pair and are discontinued. U dont think they are going to use all the best components at that price..lets be fair
ok, so - is a assymetrical tweeter design always going to be better than symmetrical? Oh yes ... and will someone PLEASE send Danny a Jamo Concert 11/D870 speaker.
@@Stefandejager01 re asymmetrical baffle, it's all about acoustic summation of the diffractive energy. An offset approach enjoys a smeared ... asymmetrical constructive summation. Whereas a worst case scenario being a single driver on a round flat baffle, whereby all the diffracted baffle energy couples and sums uniformly. Asymmetrical, ... can exhibit performance advantages in this characteristic.
@@cbts0029 It's thermal management ... their top end drivers have compact neo motors, with adequate heat sinking. Drivers are fine, in this case it's poor execution in the x/over and the cabinet.
@@cbts0029 - Woofers are terribly inefficient ... heat is an issue. - I don't believe JBL's employing die-cast aluminum heat sinking is "for show" here.
JBL uses bypass caps in parallel to keep costs down. The woofer is technologically advanced. Cast aluminium frame. Have Mike Klasco, Menlo Scientific confirm your upgrades. Harman tests in anechoic chambers to eliminate room artifacts. And used speakers do wear out and need periodic maintenance. Why? They vibrate and are mechanical.
@@dannyrichie9743 they were introduced about 20 years ago. It's kind of embarrassing to not realize the 12" woofer is a cast aluminum frame with a Differential Drive motor. These are not cheaply made. It's an engineered package to a perfomance price point. A third party lab should verify your performance "upgrades". You are revoicing a professional studio monitor. Studio Monitors are far more revealing in the midrange than hi-fi loudspeakers.
@@edgewound Man, there was little to no engineering that went into these speakers. It has an unbraced box. The parts are garbage. The response is rough. They even have some resonance issues. These cannot be used as studio monitors. There is nothing revealing about this speaker.
I am quickly coming to the conclusion that these well known speaker companies are now being shown up for what they are.. Meaning for years in some case decades we have purchased inferior second rate rubbish because there wasn't anyone brave enough to test and evaluate this Second Rate overpriced garbage...
The importance of crossover quality is common knowledge in the DIY community. But very few have the talent to choose the right values and put them in the right place.
@@abboberg Well these companies have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from customers Hire someone who has the knowledge instead of guessing and taking pot luck ..I think they owe it to the purchasers.. don't you?🤔
@@fredfungalspore I see that a lot of speaker companies are founded/run by "solo inventors" with big egos. Not sure about PWK, but that "legacy" is nothing but garbage going into the box even after all these years. Yes, they can justify the junk in the RP series, but what about the more expensive Heritage series? Even the "designer" McClaren version has garbage crossovers at a $14K pricetag. However, Klipsch publicly bragged about having air core inductors and polypropylene capacitors in their $20K Palladium model. In most cases, that's what you have to spend to get the stuff Danny is selling to us for several hundred dollars (plus all of our sweat equity). If any manufacturers actually owed the consumer anything, it would be the "cable guys". No way to "upgrade" boutique cables after blowing all that money on them.
It's JBL, what did anyone expect? Other than a handful of legacy models decades ago, I have always found them to be absolute overpriced crap, with similar design and sound issues.
I am sorry but that's a crock of crap .. They are one of the very few out there that always made every single driver in house . No off shelf generic peerless shit you see out there in abundance. I do agree not a fan , but they did some good driver work. Also you need to consider this channel has said the same about speakers most people get a stiffy over! So you not being surprised means absolutely nothing. If you follow Danny a little around .
@@MuscleBNyes they do. Line on the graph needs to be as flat as possible, that's the starting point as it ensures the speakers response doesn't have any peaks or troughs affecting the sound. The 'sound' of a particular soeaker or manufacturer comes from everything else.
@analogueman5364 no that's not true..the elevated or diminishing response at a set frequency is an integral aspect of what sets a speaker from the rest..U really think all these manufacturers of decades of speakers didn't know what they were shooting for..
It's a time gated measurement. When doing frequency sweeps you want to catch the speaker only and not the room reflections or boundary reinforcement. Large wavelengths like 200hz and below are highly affected. Cool trick to get anechoic response.
@Projacked1 no point measuring below 200hz - it's just bass which is largely down to the room. Important frequency range is 200hz upwards - this needs to be as flat as possible.
Danny uses a "4ms gated time window" which gives anechoic measurements 200Hz-20KHz, but it isn't accurate below 200hz. If you make the window longer, the bass becomes more accurate, but you also start to allow room reflections into the measurements, messing up everything in the process. Most anechoic chambers are only accurate down to 80-100Hz. Plus the measured bass response of a speaker is determined by the drivers, cabinet & port/PR tuning, and even more so by the room it's placed in. So trying to get accurate measurements below 200Hz is difficult. Klipple NFS has it's advantages by taking a ton of measurements to average out the room response, but it's also 100grand.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | คู่รักแซฟฟิก "หลิงหลิง - ออม" จากซีรีย์ "ใจซ่อนรัก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zs8AfphGn2w/mqdefault.jpg)
That's a killer frequency response, the best we've seen for a long time. Well done again.
With an MSRP of $1920, each...and skimped out on just about everything (except X-over complexity)... holy cow.
Danny’s been crushing it lately! This one is a thing of beauty. Well done!!
Someday it would be great if you could give a more complete explanation of the factors which cause speakers to have their characteristic impedance. The other thing I would love more information on is what causes the big peaks in the impedance graphs and what effect those peaks have on sound quality.
JBL is a shadow of its former self. A marketing company these days, nothing more nothing less…with a rare good product they still manage to release from time to time. Hence, I’m not surprised.
I was just thinking about this before, virtually all great companies, become a highly recognized name then they start charging for the name and dropping the quality. This usually happens when the people that created the company die and then "educated" people come in and figure out anything they can to boost the bottom line. Then an new company comes in and kicks their butts in quality for half the price. With JBL monitors, Kali Audio comes to mind. Soem of the talented JBL guys started Kali audio and now make way better monitors for less money.
The original version of this speaker was the LSR32, and really used carbon fiber for the front baffle (not a veneer). As well the two way version, the LSR 28 which was self powered. Both intended as studio monitors, I'm sure ^That^ cost caught up with them and they found a cheaper "equivalent".
IIR they wrote several White Papers about their new innovative drivers and incredibly flat off axis response.
Would be great to hear more from the customers that went ahead with the upgrades on how they compare.
@@morlidorOpps. Are you sure?
@@morlidor Thats a False Statement. I've seen many times in the comment section of customers praising his upgrades.
@@morlidor, I did the B&W 602 S2 upgrade and they're significantly better now, most noticeably the much tighter bass response. Sound stage is wider and the horrid sibilance on the female vocals is gone, but there’s more snare drum snap, which I like. And a really fun project to do. I'm thinking of sending a pair of B&W CM6 S2's for some help.
@@morlidor Seldom is not accurate either. In almost every upgrade video there is at least 1 or 2 or more people that have done the upgrade.that have comment in the comment section. Just look at the post above yours wheelbasemedia5814 has done it. SMDH
@@morlidor A lot of those customers post feedback on Audio Circle and other audio forums. We get tons of feedback from them via email too.
We all love it, when you can disect a speaker, how bad it is. Aand' the remedy is so cool to watch . Love from greenland😃
For anyone thinking about building a 3-way.. this speaker is a great example of the fact that even big name like JBL will struggle with this..... The impedance dips... Reminds me of some of my first attempts at my own crossovers where I failed to look at the whole picture and solve ALL the considerations. Shunting a ton of power back to the amp to try to drag response/phase around is a bad idea but it's an easy trap to fall into while simulating a circuit.
14:00. Humility. I like it. I too am EXTRAORDINARILY humble!
It's hard to believe that Harman, an 8 billion dollar company would build such crap under the once revered JBL name. Oh yeah, this is why they're an 8 billion dollar company.
Sorry, I've never been impressed with JBL.
I could count on one hand the number of speakers they have ever built in their entire history that I would consider good.
@@l0zerth
Their ~$200 active 8" two-way is extraordinary.
As is their $2k active 8" two-way.
@@l0zerth Klipsche guy?
It’s crazy how they use the cheapest and easiest parts to make profit margin at the expense of better parts. You have hundreds of millions you can put into testing.
@@l0zerthHave you heard revel ultima salon 2?
Always impressive work.
Great job with the improvement of this speakers! Very interesting analysis! Congratulations
Remarkable improvement in frequency response, one of the best you have achieved, after your redesign the only caveat is the remaining ringing on the low mid that maybe is the box but excellent frequency response
I have tested all the spirits lmao and i can say u are the most knowledgeable i have come across on youtube dealing with audio. I dont even think paul at ps audio can fit in your shoes.
Great review and solutions . Really enjoyed the video !
Changing the world 🌎
One speaker at a time ⏲️
This is amazing. I have a bunch of lsr4328p and lsr4326p monitors that I’ll be using in a Dolby Atmos setup. I wonder how much you could improve them…
Awesome job. You are a magician.
It's "you are" or "you're". It's not a biggy, but it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to my eyes :)
He’s truly the CROSSOVER DOCTOR
Danny I don't comment that much but I'm really impressed by this upgrade and at the same time upset with a big company like JBL for charging so much for all these cheap parts.
Wow, you could drive on that flat frequency response Danny 👍
JBL are OK for PA speakers not hi fi but Danny has worked his magic again
Hi, another great video 👍
Would there be any benefit to placing some hi density material on the frame of the stamped woofer or midrange basket..
Would this reduce any ringing..
Kind regards from Turkey 👍
That's a nice flat response. It would be interesting to hear it.
The biggest downside of that speaker seems to be the dip to the 2 ohm range. That is an absolute problem for most receivers most would be trying to use.
I have a pair of I’ll-200 and I like them. Only a 2way speaker but sounds fine.
Idk how anyone can argue with you're result's Danny! Just rubbish. Ribbish I say! 😂
Love the channel good honest information layed out in a clean concise manner thats easy to understand and learn from! You've answered more questions and taught me more than any other channel that I've watched.
Haters will hate!
Lovers will love!
$900 for a pair of crossover parts, tubes, etc. It doesn't include the boards, even if it did I wouldn't know what to do with all those parts. I use 3 for my theater and they really rock, they get super loud so I am not surprised at their impedance. Marantz AV8801 to Nord NCx500 3 channel, 62 vol is my limit it is super loud but very clear. I bet this kit helps a lot, I admit they don't sound anything like any of my other speakers.
The base kit is $759. It is also a pretty easy upgrade, and we are here to walk you through any aspect of it if you need help.
@@dannyrichie9743 wow, the legend himself! thank you sir. I'll get with you soon.
Interesting design. Would the design require two crossover types?
This model got a lot of praise at the time
I have the LSR32's, which are pretty much the same speaker, and the front baffle is 1.5" thick.
This one has the appearance of being thick, but has hollow areas in the back side.
The spectral decay says it all.
Nice one Danny. Might be one of my favourite upgrades you’ve done.
Some people may think that a company like JBL would throw resource at a product like this, but quite the opposite is likely. This was likely done super quick and maybe even by the post grad engineer who had very little experience.
The worst thing about the original design is the impedance minimums. That suggests to me some quite flawed design work given the driver’s nominal impedances.
You are correct. The worst problem really is the impedance issue.
I hope someone sends in JBL L100 classics (new model) soon….but be nice…
Odd. The published specifications are MUCH different than what is presented here. For anyone interested, simply look up the specs - they include on-axis, spatially averaged, first reflected and total radiated sound into a room. Perhaps something wrong with this pair? Would JBL just "make up the specs" ?
He is in the business of upgrades..what do u think?
Looking at the impedance, Danny's & JBL curves match pretty well. However the phase angle at the low Z points is low so may not be as bad an issue. Also, Danny's mods gave up several dB in sensitivity.
We often see some variance between a reference pair used for advertising and a production pair.
@@dannyrichie9743 Your Z measurements match pretty closely. What is divergent is the on-axis. Also, Harman does some spatial averaging where your measurements will differ. It's clear (to me) that Harman did some detailed work on these (LRS32 & LSR6332), and for the most part succeeded. By comparison, the L100's from the 70's basically used a cap for a xover...
@@Tuberhead1000 You think an uneven frequency response, driver break up, unbraced cabinets that are buzzing all over the place, and impedance dips to 2 ohms is succeeding? These speakers were a disaster.
Amazing transformation. How did you rotate the tweeter/mid panel? With the port on top or bottom? What's your recommendation?
Port orients to the side in that config
You take out the screws holding the panel in, rotate panel then put screws back in, voila
I guess you put the drivers close to each other
It's a JBL. How they have the reputation they do with the horrible sound they produce! But then there is Klipsch as well.
well the high end stuff is pretty damn good.
@veroman007 their Everest line is AMAZING
@@veroman007 Never was, still isn't. I own a pair of old school L88. Did you see Danny's 4311 review? "It's just a disaster!" It was the professional version of the consumer L100. I was in love with the L300's back in the day. Until I was exposed to actual good speakers.
@@morlidor I own a set of L88. I know someone with 4355s I've listened to. Way back in the day I lived in Nashville and repped hi end audio like Marantz, Audio Technica, Signet, Acoustic Research, ... I have some sales sample RTR speakers. Heard 4311s in many studios. L100, L300...
If what you are after is high efficiency sis boom, old school Cerwin Vega is better. Gene was an interesting character.
Ill keep my 4412's, i like them.
Almost ironically, the place where these were designed has resources most designers only dream of. More than just anechoic chambers.
Yeah, you'd think they would have done a better job.
A what I call a "SONIC DOOM"
my pair looks the same but has a carbon fiber baffle and no chalkboard or nails. (those must have been upgrades)
The entire LSR series never sounded good to me at all. There is good reason they're not more popular or ever mentioned as a staple in the world of audio production.
I have seen them advertised by studios as their main monitors lmao.
Have you done anything with the JBL l7?
The sad thing is I think these are intended as studio monitors
Yes, plenty of studios advertised these as their main monitors lol.
ProAc puts Peerless DX25TG59 tweeters (25 euro/piece retail) in 2-way bookshelf speakers for 4000 euro. Why are you all surprised ??? 😆🤣😂
If I recall correctly thos things are very expensive too
Danny, how long did it take you to sort out this speaker? How come companies like JBL are unable to get similar results in what was likely a magnitude longer development time?
Honestly, I probably spent three or four hours on it.
Always technically impressive & entertaining. 👍
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Yes it is very Entertaining..popcorn and drink needed
Nice looking speaker though.
I've been on the fence on sending my ELAC towers to Danny for improvement. I don't know if they can be improved. I've been waiting to see if somebody send them. I'm expecting to hear: Sorry, I can't do anything other that putting better parts in the crossover, at the end is an Andrew Jones design.
We've looked at one of the Elac towers. Andrew used some really large value electrolytic caps in the woofer circuits, and in more than one place. Just upgrading those values to a base level poly cap (what they need) gets expensive quickly. They also eat up a lot of space and that speaker doesn't have a lot of internal space. It really isn't a good candidate for an upgrade.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh… I see. Also, I would say that towers MSRP and new crossovers parts investment are not justifiable. Better speakers would be the way to go; regardless of the fact that I could have the crossovers outside the box. Is that right?
@@JulioCSolar Yes, there are better options.
Do you ever deal with full-range monitors for recording/mastering studios?
Danny has worked on several full-range drivers in the past but not any specific to mixing/mastering.
What do expect from a speaker designed by accountants?
Looks like my Northridge E50's I get no Love for them on the JBL Groups
amazing again. this is a guilty pleasure of mine i admit. watching you transform pigs ears into silk purses..... it follows the Pygmalion script and is very satisfying.
Could someone Please send in a pair of Silverline Preludes
Speakers with low z dips like this need labels "Warning: Definately not for use with home AV Receivers"
Resonance frequency.
JBL uses those same dirpy binding posts on much cheaper AND much more expensive speakers. If there was a home theater receiver that "Could Handle 4ohms" It would be so expensive you'd get better and cheaper performance with some rackmount amps and an older THX receiver from the mid 2000's as a processor pre-amp. Newer home theater receivers are pure junk for any speaker under 8ohms. It will get hot and sound bad driving any 4 or 6 ohm speaker. If I connected a 4 ohm speaker to Billy (Denon AVR-X2500H) He'd provably melt the faceplate plastic.
This LSR speaker is not like the olds JBL speakers : L50 L100 etc ... (woofer basket was very tick, the box itself etc ...)
Dig the World Masters Athletics Indoor Championships Toruń 2023 T-shirt from Poland :)
Thanks, Torun was a beautiful city and I loved my visit there.
J:unk B:ut L:oud
Just Bloody Loud
😂
@@analogueman5364😂
Those commercial JBL speakers just don't work very well in home theater/audio. That speaker is made to be hung from a ceiling in a room full of people with a big Crown amp behind it. I have a commercial Crown, 1200 watts @ 8 ohms, rated down to 2 ohms
They still perform poorly in audio quality... and as shown, can be made quite a lot better with a good design.
I have repaired Macrotechs, sure they go loud but they ain't hifi.
Again keep in mind the price point of these speakers..msrp is only $1900 pair and are discontinued. U dont think they are going to use all the best components at that price..lets be fair
True, but 2 ohms impedance? That's a very poor design choice.....
1900 is a lot for that performance. pick up some elacs for that much and compare. ymmv😉
@@mfr58 yeah, it makes them almost pointless unless you have a beast amp
$1900 isn't cheap.
In the hifi world that is dirt cheap@@thepracticalaudiophile
People pay a lot of money for junk, I don't understand how they buy speakers, buy them from a book or in a surprise package....lol;l
please do a polk sda anything.
ok, so - is a assymetrical tweeter design always going to be better than symmetrical?
Oh yes ... and will someone PLEASE send Danny a Jamo Concert 11/D870 speaker.
Since you know the outcome, wouldn't that video be anticlimactic?
@@TriAmpHiFi ... my question stands.
@@Stefandejager01
re asymmetrical baffle,
it's all about acoustic summation of the diffractive energy. An offset approach enjoys a smeared ... asymmetrical constructive summation.
Whereas a worst case scenario being a single driver on a round flat baffle, whereby all the diffracted baffle energy couples and sums uniformly.
Asymmetrical, ... can exhibit performance advantages in this characteristic.
Good description of the JBL sound. Never heard a JBL I would want to live with. Why waste your time on garbage like that?
😅😅😅new in 2015 for 2998€/pair. Joking???
it is a JBL, you pay the name, not the speaker. A small magnet for the bassdriver, but covered with a big cooler, it is show
@@cbts0029
It's thermal management ... their top end drivers have compact neo motors, with adequate heat sinking.
Drivers are fine, in this case it's poor execution in the x/over and the cabinet.
@@FOH3663 Jbls datasheet for this box says only the midrange uses Neodym and a Frequency Response +1. -1.5 dB (60 Hz - 22 kHz) :) :)
@@FOH3663 it eats 200W, you can check other Neodym drived basechassis, their cooler are much smaller, this one is show
@@cbts0029
- Woofers are terribly inefficient ... heat is an issue.
- I don't believe JBL's employing die-cast aluminum heat sinking is "for show" here.
JBL uses bypass caps in parallel to keep costs down. The woofer is technologically advanced. Cast aluminium frame. Have Mike Klasco, Menlo Scientific confirm your upgrades. Harman tests in anechoic chambers to eliminate room artifacts. And used speakers do wear out and need periodic maintenance. Why? They vibrate and are mechanical.
Nothing about this one was worn out. They were just poorly designed and cheaply made.
@@dannyrichie9743 they were introduced about 20 years ago. It's kind of embarrassing to not realize the 12" woofer is a cast aluminum frame with a Differential Drive motor. These are not cheaply made. It's an engineered package to a perfomance price point. A third party lab should verify your performance "upgrades". You are revoicing a professional studio monitor. Studio Monitors are far more revealing in the midrange than hi-fi loudspeakers.
@@edgewound Man, there was little to no engineering that went into these speakers. It has an unbraced box. The parts are garbage. The response is rough. They even have some resonance issues. These cannot be used as studio monitors. There is nothing revealing about this speaker.
@@dannyrichie9743 Yeah...Sure...Let's go with that...thanks for the laugh. Slippery.
@@edgewound The laugh was these speakers, and attacking the messenger doesn't change the message.
Just Barely Listenable.
🤣.
I am quickly coming to the conclusion that these well known speaker companies are now being shown up for what they are.. Meaning for years in some case decades we have purchased inferior second rate rubbish because there wasn't anyone brave enough to test and evaluate this Second Rate overpriced garbage...
The importance of crossover quality is common knowledge in the DIY community. But very few have the talent to choose the right values and put them in the right place.
@@abboberg Well these companies have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from customers Hire someone who has the knowledge instead of guessing and taking pot luck ..I think they owe it to the purchasers.. don't you?🤔
@@fredfungalspore I see that a lot of speaker companies are founded/run by "solo inventors" with big egos. Not sure about PWK, but that "legacy" is nothing but garbage going into the box even after all these years. Yes, they can justify the junk in the RP series, but what about the more expensive Heritage series? Even the "designer" McClaren version has garbage crossovers at a $14K pricetag. However, Klipsch publicly bragged about having air core inductors and polypropylene capacitors in their $20K Palladium model. In most cases, that's what you have to spend to get the stuff Danny is selling to us for several hundred dollars (plus all of our sweat equity). If any manufacturers actually owed the consumer anything, it would be the "cable guys". No way to "upgrade" boutique cables after blowing all that money on them.
It's JBL, what did anyone expect? Other than a handful of legacy models decades ago, I have always found them to be absolute overpriced crap, with similar design and sound issues.
I am sorry but that's a crock of crap ..
They are one of the very few out there that always made every single driver in house . No off shelf generic peerless shit you see out there in abundance.
I do agree not a fan , but they did some good driver work.
Also you need to consider this channel has said the same about speakers most people get a stiffy over! So you not being surprised means absolutely nothing. If you follow Danny a little around .
The new HDI series sound great.
So does the the jbl l100 mk2..Your ears do not go by a line on a graph..That's what seperate the different manufacturers..
@@MuscleBNyes they do. Line on the graph needs to be as flat as possible, that's the starting point as it ensures the speakers response doesn't have any peaks or troughs affecting the sound. The 'sound' of a particular soeaker or manufacturer comes from everything else.
@analogueman5364 no that's not true..the elevated or diminishing response at a set frequency is an integral aspect of what sets a speaker from the rest..U really think all these manufacturers of decades of speakers didn't know what they were shooting for..
If only it had a 3 cent piece of metal tubing for speaker connection and the sensitivity was badly compromised. Yeah that's the ticket.
92 dB efficiency badly compromised from 94 dB? Anyone who would prefer the original response over Danny’s response must be a glutton for punishment.
Response graphs from 200Hz and higher? ehm...
He always does that, as the room effects the LF response......
It's a time gated measurement. When doing frequency sweeps you want to catch the speaker only and not the room reflections or boundary reinforcement. Large wavelengths like 200hz and below are highly affected. Cool trick to get anechoic response.
@@mfr58 if the room effects his LF response? Think about what you just said dude
@Projacked1 no point measuring below 200hz - it's just bass which is largely down to the room. Important frequency range is 200hz upwards - this needs to be as flat as possible.
Danny uses a "4ms gated time window" which gives anechoic measurements 200Hz-20KHz, but it isn't accurate below 200hz. If you make the window longer, the bass becomes more accurate, but you also start to allow room reflections into the measurements, messing up everything in the process. Most anechoic chambers are only accurate down to 80-100Hz. Plus the measured bass response of a speaker is determined by the drivers, cabinet & port/PR tuning, and even more so by the room it's placed in. So trying to get accurate measurements below 200Hz is difficult. Klipple NFS has it's advantages by taking a ton of measurements to average out the room response, but it's also 100grand.
That's a nice flat response. It would be interesting to hear it.