THD had all the hardcore players, Dratnos had the casual players (except for the end of the raid), Jak had the healers, Growl had Smolderon and Rashok, Meeix had nothing and Max had Sludgefist. Opulence, Botanist, Council of blood and Fyrakk are meh imo. I just feel like Max went for a well rounded raid which in the end attracts nobody. I stand by the poll with Dratnos ahead
This makes me realize how cool it would be for a fated season (if they continue to do it) if instead of fated raids we could get a boss rush type of raid using previous bosses. I would be happy with any of these lists but i think tunning would be hard because each raid tunning was so tied to the borrowed power we had at that time.
I wonder what the correlation of it being healer fights and also having the lowest pullcount is. Maybe Jak liked the bosses because healers were more impactful, and he as a good player could reduce the number of pulls? Instead of having DPS wiping him? Or maybe since it was healer-focused fights, they were by default easier, since there are only 4 healers, so fewer people that can mess up?
@@WarthUnder-om8ox As a healer, I can tell you. Predictable damage, where you can plan cooldowns around and absolutely pop off during them? Cool. (Maut/Sludgefist/abyssal commander) Rot damage fights where you have constant impact on the survivability of the raid, and are constantly doing something? Awesome (Hivemind/Orgozoa/Abyssal commander) I don't think it has anything to do with easier fights. Even Sylvannas was a good fight to heal. And I hard agree with Max, that people give sylvannas too much shit (mainly because heroic sylvannas was a dogshit fight) What suprised me, was that Jack picked Mekkatorque as a fight though, and maybe my experience on that fight was a bit biased since my guild wasn't that good, but fights where your players have to Line of sight with a mechanic that can kill them (bombs) Is not enjoyable for me.
@@WarthUnder-om8ox I guess you're right about less people being able to mess up. Theres only so many mechanics you can put in a single fight, and if one or more are aimed at healers, they're not oneshots (unless they're dispels, but those dont make healing fun, because dispelling is by definition not healing)
Max was so upset that he didn't win, saying his was objectively the best and his chat just didn't want to vote for him. But he just didn't have the best list and it wasn't close lmao
Yeah he had a couple good ones but not everyone loved those bosses. I wasn't huge on sludgefist, hated council of blood, amalgamation chamber, and tel'arn.
Max is definitely overestimating his own list. Amalgamation, Botanist, Council, Avatar and Fyrakk are far from my favourite fights. I think he base his opinion on Mythic and a lot of people only did these bosses in heroic pugs.
agree on everything except opulence, opulence was alright, but definitely better choices out there. I do not for the life of me understand the fyrak pick even with the RWF PoV except for the fact that it was super close and exciting, the fight is just not a s-tier boss
I think it's kind of ironic how people say "at the start of shadowlands we knew there'd be the Anima power boss and we feared for it" and in the same sentence praise Opulence which is in essence a sort of precursor to an anima power boss. That being said, I loved opulence. And i think that pick is actually very very cultured. Council of blood is a grief I agree.
Hard agree. Fyrakk has one of the best final phases of all time, but the private auras in intermission and P2 make the fight automatically F tier for a lot of players.
this is honestly the kind of cook blizz should do for season 4s or w.e the end of expac season is instead of raid rotations. make some torghast esque tower with top tier bosses to work through. can make it some community event for the bosses to be chosen somehow
I think alot of people hate Fyrakk seed mechanics and Council of Blood while I enjoyed it, I don't think its a peoples pick. Surprised there was no mention of Jaina, loved that fight personally.
Dratnos' Star Augur Pick literally brought back one of my best and most head slamming Mythic raid boss memories. Still my favorite mythic raid of MY experience.
Ursoc lives rent free in my nightmares. I played spriest. On farm Ursoc died so fast you had to s2m at like 50% which didn't leave much room for error (in a spec that already had the tightest rotation in the history of the game). This shouldn't be an issue, but whenever Ursoc would charge we'd have a mage blinking to africa or someone running the wrong direction or some shit. Ursoc would charge, everyone loses a little uptime, I die. Everyone laughs. Fuck Ursoc.
I don't know why people were so against Jak's list, there were a lot of really fun fights on there. Hivemind to this day remains one of my favorite raid bosses ever, that shit was cool.
I wachted the fantasy class making video before this one and i'm just now learning that Growl is YumyTV, which makes his whole Magician class so much more funny
With the stipulation that if they tuned it higher it would have been S tier, I'm a little sad not to see volcoross. That fight had the opportunity to be such an amazing DPS check but they just gave it way too little HP and it ended up getting steamrolled and was more like a mid raid break than a hard check like it should have been
I get why, but it’s a shame WoD isn’t included. They still haven’t made an end boss better than Mythic Blackhand. Gul’dan, Sire, and Argus are close but not quite.
I raided during this entire time period and don't remember 80% of the bosses, it's kinda wild how quickly they disappear from my brain when a new tier launches.
Not sure if it'd make a whole lot of difference, but could've been a fun addition to include picking which raid's trash to use in their draft raid - I'm sure everyone has thoughts on which raid has good/bad trash too ;op
They still going to do top 10 best raid bosses? They did 10 worst dungeons and raid bosses but only 10 best dungeons. There will be a lot of overlap but it’s a different type of list.
I straigh tup attribute Orgazoa as the fight that made me into the CE healer I am now. that fight forced me to change my UI switch to mouse overs, learn to read logs for healing, use the class discord and then on top of that I got world class coaching from a former Liquid WF h pal. I went from a mid healer to hard carrying healing the rest of the Xpac on that fight.
sire d is def one of the coolest end bosses ever. not many character sin the game can just show up and be loved like Sire. Sire is just so cool. how many other previously unnamed characters stick in the memory like that. he's literally more memorable than the main baddy of SL lol. I hope some day Sire comes back as a big bad but we'll see.
Shame you don’t go from ToT onwards I’d say there’s some mega first bosses like immersius and kargath bladefist for example I think that those tiers are also of modern quality
I wish they included pre-Legion expansions in this but understand why they don't. Their boss pool is missing some of the GOATs like kaelthas, Lich King, H Ragnaros, Lei Shen, Seigecrafter, and Blackhand.
The only thing that was missing from this was like a layout pick also, just so when we voted in chat we would have a better idea of what we would hate or love to do😂
17:05 so fucking true, I played H pally in BFA so for me my absolute top tier most loved fights... were orgazoa, that boss literally made me into the healer I am now, that fight made me into a CE raider lol........and Nzoth. a lot of people hate Nzoth because eww add fight, but for me, that fight was a fucking BANGER. so fun constant pressure. and as an Hpal on that I had so much agency and had a lot of extra jobs with soaking and what not and because of my guild structure I had to soak 2x and make sur eI had an ineffible truth proc somewhere in there so my bubble was off cd and man I had so much fun, it was also my first CE.
As a tank and dps main i wouldve picked Jak's list. Every single boss in there was super fun. Couldnt pick one i didnt like. The other lists all had a stinker or 2.
I generally liked the picks, a lot of great bosses in the last few years. I like how the best players like a good hard challenge (unlike some of the so-called high end mythic + players who whine and moan for everything to be nerfed and made more bland and easy all the time).
I'll be honest, the uunat last boss pick is an L to a majority of the player base. might have been a good fight. most people didnt do it or even touch it though.
It was a mixture of things. He was warned by (I think) Dratnos in advance that, if they did this list in this format, Max's chat would just vote against him for the luls, and you can tell Max put a lot of thought into his list and thought it was worth more votes than it got (which is true, imo).
My list as a mage: garroshi xy'mox (sepulcher) krosus Imonar kin'garoth halondrus maiden fallen avatar kil'jaeden honorable mentions: denathrius as last boss, MOTHER and inquisition as 2nd early bosses fight me yea 7 legion bosses lol, I enjoyed the fuck out of that expansion also 0 DF bosses
Maybe it's just me but this music at the beginning is obnoxious. Just constant random noises that make it aggressively difficulty to hear what people are saying.
Max here not realizing that good bosses for RWF aren't necessarily good for your casual CE raider. Council of Blood bad, Avatar bad, Fyrakk, total shit. Shriekwing was good, the rest of his were very meh. Dratnos and Grow picked bosses that were great for casual CE raiders which is why they won.
Oney reason i dont like Max list for example ist because Fyrakk has the least epic theme out of all these endbosses. Like if you stand infront of a boss for 200 pulls the theme and voicelines have to be absolute bangers as well. Fyrakk just didnt hit that Warcraft feel
isnt it pretty telling that all the most beloved fights are purely single target? having to switch to little shitters or larodar roots or dutiful attendants is the fucking worst and blizzard needs to take note.
Hivemind, Rygelon, Thaddius, Huntsman Alt, lady inerva, hungering destroyer, lords of dread w/o the w/a part, Dausegne, patchwerk, Maut. I only started CE 8.3 to current and casual before then for reference. I like bosses where mechanics don't stop you from pumping. Pure rotatation, your spec vs mine type of bosses.
Kind of want Fronk to add in his personal list to these drafts, an editor's choice of sorts.
Do this.
He loves doing that kinda stuff
Max telling everyone not to yap too much after every pick then yapping too much after everybody's pick
the man literally commented on everyone's pick, but i get it, he is passionate about it!
Duh, if they yap he wont have time to
THD with the 1700 pull count raid. If your raid team survives that entire raid they will get sent to the warfront because they can survive ANYTHING.
Dratnos picking a full ST raid just to oppress moonkins even more is peak
Dratnos, truly a man of the people
THD had all the hardcore players, Dratnos had the casual players (except for the end of the raid), Jak had the healers, Growl had Smolderon and Rashok, Meeix had nothing and Max had Sludgefist. Opulence, Botanist, Council of blood and Fyrakk are meh imo. I just feel like Max went for a well rounded raid which in the end attracts nobody. I stand by the poll with Dratnos ahead
Need a visual counter for every "Thats right" from Daddy Dratty. Fronk loves doing stuff like that
Thats right
This makes me realize how cool it would be for a fated season (if they continue to do it) if instead of fated raids we could get a boss rush type of raid using previous bosses. I would be happy with any of these lists but i think tunning would be hard because each raid tunning was so tied to the borrowed power we had at that time.
I love jack picking healer bosses in this. I would hard agree that Maut and Hivemind were awesome fights to heal.
I wonder what the correlation of it being healer fights and also having the lowest pullcount is.
Maybe Jak liked the bosses because healers were more impactful, and he as a good player could reduce the number of pulls? Instead of having DPS wiping him?
Or maybe since it was healer-focused fights, they were by default easier, since there are only 4 healers, so fewer people that can mess up?
Hivemind was a blast for AOE dps too one of my favorites
@@WarthUnder-om8ox As a healer, I can tell you.
Predictable damage, where you can plan cooldowns around and absolutely pop off during them? Cool. (Maut/Sludgefist/abyssal commander)
Rot damage fights where you have constant impact on the survivability of the raid, and are constantly doing something? Awesome (Hivemind/Orgozoa/Abyssal commander)
I don't think it has anything to do with easier fights. Even Sylvannas was a good fight to heal. And I hard agree with Max, that people give sylvannas too much shit (mainly because heroic sylvannas was a dogshit fight)
What suprised me, was that Jack picked Mekkatorque as a fight though, and maybe my experience on that fight was a bit biased since my guild wasn't that good, but fights where your players have to Line of sight with a mechanic that can kill them (bombs) Is not enjoyable for me.
@@iantha999 Right, I agree with you that they are cool fights, the question is how does that relate to their low pull count?
@@WarthUnder-om8ox I guess you're right about less people being able to mess up. Theres only so many mechanics you can put in a single fight, and if one or more are aimed at healers, they're not oneshots (unless they're dispels, but those dont make healing fun, because dispelling is by definition not healing)
Max was so upset that he didn't win, saying his was objectively the best and his chat just didn't want to vote for him. But he just didn't have the best list and it wasn't close lmao
Yeah he had a couple good ones but not everyone loved those bosses. I wasn't huge on sludgefist, hated council of blood, amalgamation chamber, and tel'arn.
I love this type of content that he does but Max really can't wrap his head around other people having a different opinion than him lol
@@icresp4263ydkb
Max is definitely overestimating his own list. Amalgamation, Botanist, Council, Avatar and Fyrakk are far from my favourite fights. I think he base his opinion on Mythic and a lot of people only did these bosses in heroic pugs.
“I think your name is just too close to Max” 😂😂😂
Max’s list is actually so griefed by council of blood, fyrakk and opulence it’s wild. Growls list is actually goated
Growl is forever the man of the people
agree on everything except opulence, opulence was alright, but definitely better choices out there. I do not for the life of me understand the fyrak pick even with the RWF PoV except for the fact that it was super close and exciting, the fight is just not a s-tier boss
I think it's kind of ironic how people say "at the start of shadowlands we knew there'd be the Anima power boss and we feared for it" and in the same sentence praise Opulence which is in essence a sort of precursor to an anima power boss.
That being said, I loved opulence. And i think that pick is actually very very cultured. Council of blood is a grief I agree.
Hard agree. Fyrakk has one of the best final phases of all time, but the private auras in intermission and P2 make the fight automatically F tier for a lot of players.
Council of blood is great
this is honestly the kind of cook blizz should do for season 4s or w.e the end of expac season is instead of raid rotations.
make some torghast esque tower with top tier bosses to work through. can make it some community event for the bosses to be chosen somehow
Warning the healers that I was about to send an auto crit Glacial Spike on Maut was the most fun I ever had raiding.
I think alot of people hate Fyrakk seed mechanics and Council of Blood while I enjoyed it, I don't think its a peoples pick. Surprised there was no mention of Jaina, loved that fight personally.
Thd, max, and meeix straight throwing here
On a long enough timeline, all WoW content becomes spreadsheets
Also Max is a classic Fantasy Draft yapper. 100% in everybody else's head
Dratnos' Star Augur Pick literally brought back one of my best and most head slamming Mythic raid boss memories. Still my favorite mythic raid of MY experience.
Ursoc lives rent free in my nightmares. I played spriest. On farm Ursoc died so fast you had to s2m at like 50% which didn't leave much room for error (in a spec that already had the tightest rotation in the history of the game). This shouldn't be an issue, but whenever Ursoc would charge we'd have a mage blinking to africa or someone running the wrong direction or some shit. Ursoc would charge, everyone loses a little uptime, I die. Everyone laughs.
Fuck Ursoc.
Look at how fast the Nathria bosses go. GOAT raid!
I don't know why people were so against Jak's list, there were a lot of really fun fights on there. Hivemind to this day remains one of my favorite raid bosses ever, that shit was cool.
Watching this live amazing max just rage quit his stream after he lost the vote it was the greatest thing ever
I love these videos. I drive for work so listen to it in the background like a normal podcast. Keep them coming !
Also, Growl is king
I wachted the fantasy class making video before this one and i'm just now learning that Growl is YumyTV, which makes his whole Magician class so much more funny
Not even gonna watch but I already know Growl will have the best raid because he just picks bosses that are fun to play
Max might be a great raider but he is kinda bad at drafting imo lol.
With the stipulation that if they tuned it higher it would have been S tier, I'm a little sad not to see volcoross. That fight had the opportunity to be such an amazing DPS check but they just gave it way too little HP and it ended up getting steamrolled and was more like a mid raid break than a hard check like it should have been
Dratnos: "That's Right" TM
Should have voted in 3 rounds, tank, healer and dps perspective.
I get why, but it’s a shame WoD isn’t included. They still haven’t made an end boss better than Mythic Blackhand. Gul’dan, Sire, and Argus are close but not quite.
Ya, I just always get sad when I see these cuz I know it's just gonna be Legion-DF. Would really like to see a group do this for all expansions.
I raided during this entire time period and don't remember 80% of the bosses, it's kinda wild how quickly they disappear from my brain when a new tier launches.
Not sure if it'd make a whole lot of difference, but could've been a fun addition to include picking which raid's trash to use in their draft raid - I'm sure everyone has thoughts on which raid has good/bad trash too ;op
Max had a banger list a lot of the comments are tripping. My guild still quotes council of blood lol. But Dratnos definitely deserved that win
They still going to do top 10 best raid bosses? They did 10 worst dungeons and raid bosses but only 10 best dungeons.
There will be a lot of overlap but it’s a different type of list.
This was banger content. I do hope max doesn’t take the bit too personal. Even if it is hilarious to watch.
I straigh tup attribute Orgazoa as the fight that made me into the CE healer I am now. that fight forced me to change my UI switch to mouse overs, learn to read logs for healing, use the class discord and then on top of that I got world class coaching from a former Liquid WF h pal. I went from a mid healer to hard carrying healing the rest of the Xpac on that fight.
You should also give names to your raids, and vote for each others raid in top 3's
shoutout to my boy Jak for repping us healers
sire d is def one of the coolest end bosses ever. not many character sin the game can just show up and be loved like Sire. Sire is just so cool. how many other previously unnamed characters stick in the memory like that. he's literally more memorable than the main baddy of SL lol.
I hope some day Sire comes back as a big bad but we'll see.
max is actually such a sore loser lmao.
i like these, blizzard should make a weekly boss rush mode with bosses on a random rotation every week
Shame you don’t go from ToT onwards I’d say there’s some mega first bosses like immersius and kargath bladefist for example I think that those tiers are also of modern quality
I wish they included pre-Legion expansions in this but understand why they don't. Their boss pool is missing some of the GOATs like kaelthas, Lich King, H Ragnaros, Lei Shen, Seigecrafter, and Blackhand.
this needs to be on twitter without names
Is this sheet (the template) available somewhere?
The only thing that was missing from this was like a layout pick also, just so when we voted in chat we would have a better idea of what we would hate or love to do😂
17:05 so fucking true, I played H pally in BFA so for me my absolute top tier most loved fights... were orgazoa, that boss literally made me into the healer I am now, that fight made me into a CE raider lol........and Nzoth. a lot of people hate Nzoth because eww add fight, but for me, that fight was a fucking BANGER. so fun constant pressure. and as an Hpal on that I had so much agency and had a lot of extra jobs with soaking and what not and because of my guild structure I had to soak 2x and make sur eI had an ineffible truth proc somewhere in there so my bubble was off cd and man I had so much fun, it was also my first CE.
Love this!! keep up with these videos! Great series
As a tank and dps main i wouldve picked Jak's list. Every single boss in there was super fun. Couldnt pick one i didnt like. The other lists all had a stinker or 2.
Yoooooooo THD being here made my day. Let's goooo!
they should have some of that casual podcast guys here too
Mine would be:
Shriek
Amalgamation
Soulrender
Lady Ashvane
Rashok
Star Augur
Sludgefist
Rygelon
Argus
Best raid of all time would in some way incorporate the karazhan soundtrack. That is all.
Is Fronk too busy being Max's editor, is that why he hasn't released a Dragonflight recap yet? Makes me sad - best part of every expansion.
JAk's list is straight healer (Im a healer) much of current boss's mechanics are handled with defensives not with healers.
Fronk loves doing a lot of stuff huh
Is there video of blizzard force wiping liquid on kin'garoth?
I love how Max is gasing his own picks when it is unasailably by far the absolute WORST of all 6 😂 and it Isn’t close
I generally liked the picks, a lot of great bosses in the last few years. I like how the best players like a good hard challenge (unlike some of the so-called high end mythic + players who whine and moan for everything to be nerfed and made more bland and easy all the time).
For me, Growl's list is the easy choice
Why is it only from Legion trough Dragonflight?
Man, dratnos picking is so bang
Before watching - If sire denathrius or le shen isn't on here we riot.
I'll be honest, the uunat last boss pick is an L to a majority of the player base. might have been a good fight. most people didnt do it or even touch it though.
Max keeps saying his raids slaps and im in here hating almost every fight he chose lol
I posted this idea on the M+ draft video, love that they are doing this! Looking forward to watching Max lose again 😅
I don't watch the streams, is the whole "sore loser" thing a bit? Other than that, this was a lot of fun to listen to.
It was a mixture of things. He was warned by (I think) Dratnos in advance that, if they did this list in this format, Max's chat would just vote against him for the luls, and you can tell Max put a lot of thought into his list and thought it was worth more votes than it got (which is true, imo).
MAx, Council is one of the most hated community bosses XD and Fyrakk, no one likes jump scare insta wipes like that.
How the fuck did Nzoth not get picked?! Greatest boss of all time
Growl's raid on repeat i'd resub forever
My list as a mage:
garroshi
xy'mox (sepulcher)
krosus
Imonar
kin'garoth
halondrus
maiden
fallen avatar
kil'jaeden
honorable mentions: denathrius as last boss, MOTHER and inquisition as 2nd early bosses
fight me
yea 7 legion bosses lol, I enjoyed the fuck out of that expansion
also 0 DF bosses
this goes out to Toxicraven1123 at 27:52 .... CUZ SYLVANAS WASN'T IT BIG DOG.
Put the list out in a month without the names attached to see which raid wins the poll.
What is "mid raid wall"?
Max reminds me of my wife, she will not play any competitive game against me because I beat her and she hates losing.
We need to start a union for fronk.
Am I the only person that loves Ghuun the most 😂
Maybe it's just me but this music at the beginning is obnoxious. Just constant random noises that make it aggressively difficulty to hear what people are saying.
Ofc Thd's raid has the highest pull count!
Max here not realizing that good bosses for RWF aren't necessarily good for your casual CE raider. Council of Blood bad, Avatar bad, Fyrakk, total shit. Shriekwing was good, the rest of his were very meh. Dratnos and Grow picked bosses that were great for casual CE raiders which is why they won.
Jak's list is the best.
Free the document to the public i wanna duplicate it and play too XD
54:29 is so based
Spectacular
Also Jak and Meeix robbed
Meeix and Jak, I will catch the next video.
Where is Rashok??
Dratnos list is just better
Glad Jak came!
Oney reason i dont like Max list for example ist because Fyrakk has the least epic theme out of all these endbosses.
Like if you stand infront of a boss for 200 pulls the theme and voicelines have to be absolute bangers as well.
Fyrakk just didnt hit that Warcraft feel
Shriek wing blows
I live for yap content. Pls moar! Also praise Fronk!
Should have been Siege forward
isnt it pretty telling that all the most beloved fights are purely single target? having to switch to little shitters or larodar roots or dutiful attendants is the fucking worst and blizzard needs to take note.
I raise you hivemind!
@@iantha999 i have never once heard hivemind mentioned in any discussion of good bosses ever
@@20the20 Well it is in this video isn't it? So that's not true at all if you watched this video.
No siegecrafter blackfuse???????????????????????
Nice music Fronk
we love u fronk
Hivemind, Rygelon, Thaddius, Huntsman Alt, lady inerva, hungering destroyer, lords of dread w/o the w/a part, Dausegne, patchwerk, Maut. I only started CE 8.3 to current and casual before then for reference. I like bosses where mechanics don't stop you from pumping. Pure rotatation, your spec vs mine type of bosses.
good picks all round
ranked choice polls! lol
maximum delusion