INTRODUCING: INVISI-BRIG | Hero Randomizer

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 200

  • @CactusPuppy
    @CactusPuppy ปีที่แล้ว +851

    Thanks for having me, Emongg! It was a ton of fun!

    • @cospiy
      @cospiy ปีที่แล้ว +34

      You’re really entertaining and seem really fun. Thanks for doing the vid.

    • @zc8673
      @zc8673 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Ayy! Thank you for everything you do for the Brig community!!!!

    • @tepmurt76
      @tepmurt76 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Hearing the "hello" when you found them every time made me chuckle

    • @giantryan660
      @giantryan660 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Great whip shots!

    • @FEMBOYGAYMER
      @FEMBOYGAYMER ปีที่แล้ว +5

      You were honestly the best out of all the others he had on, you're veery entertaining!

  • @waitwhat238
    @waitwhat238 ปีที่แล้ว +331

    This Brig Build basically turns Brig into a Horror Movie Villain.

    • @lensluiz8357
      @lensluiz8357 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      This is the Brig that haunts Flats' nightmares.

    • @ccricers
      @ccricers ปีที่แล้ว +11

      There's a tiktok where a Brig is chasing a Sombra because of wall hacks

    • @heartstriker2831
      @heartstriker2831 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Bruh... I was thinking Deaths theme from puss in boots 2 while watching this😂😂

    • @heartstriker2831
      @heartstriker2831 ปีที่แล้ว

      or the prowler theme works too😂

    • @mysticspark2694
      @mysticspark2694 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Dead by briglight

  • @ccecereal
    @ccecereal ปีที่แล้ว +83

    its always funny to see the final stage of rage popped immediately : bastion

    • @starhaven1881
      @starhaven1881 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      was thinking the same "oh look a bastion ofcourse theres a bastion" waiting for the orisa

  • @simonioos
    @simonioos ปีที่แล้ว +135

    i think brig is the strongest hero randomizer. she has the bast self heal, shield movement ability and decent damage in meelee.

    • @ChargingStag
      @ChargingStag ปีที่แล้ว +11

      And yet I imagine there is also some slight risk involved as well in the ult department (granted a very very small risk).
      With this particular build, if he rolled Tac Visor or Bap window it would have basically been a no-ult hero 😂 Unless Tac Visor also gives Soldier's gun temporarily for the ult... I'm not sure on that one

    • @CevsyOld
      @CevsyOld ปีที่แล้ว +14

      I think dva is really good too, infinite ammo high health and dm is so strong

    • @HONEYMO0N.
      @HONEYMO0N. ปีที่แล้ว

      but she's sooo slow

    • @miltaire3235
      @miltaire3235 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Depends on what she rolls still. No vertical movement or ranged attacks and you could kinda just take highground or flyers and it will be rough

    • @SuperThest
      @SuperThest ปีที่แล้ว +8

      melee characters are inherently at a massive disadvantage because not rolling a range ability would make some maps impossible to win on. She’s definitely better than Reinhardt, but there are still much better base characters to use.

  • @Ryhzen
    @Ryhzen ปีที่แล้ว +36

    I was laughing so hard when the lifeweaver pulled me off the edge 🤣💀🤣💀

    • @abrasiontest6954
      @abrasiontest6954 ปีที่แล้ว

      That was the funniest part of the match 😂

    • @Ryhzen
      @Ryhzen ปีที่แล้ว

      @@abrasiontest6954 Fr 😂😂😂😂😂

    • @Ryhzen
      @Ryhzen ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@skrisms lol it was so funny

  • @phoenixwright8364
    @phoenixwright8364 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    17:49 the sheer horror in that scream

  • @Memo-yh4nc
    @Memo-yh4nc ปีที่แล้ว +149

    I just had a horrifying thought… invisible Widowmaker 😱

    • @deadtigerworld
      @deadtigerworld ปีที่แล้ว +1

      🤣

    • @harm0ny_
      @harm0ny_ ปีที่แล้ว +17

      I had the exact same thought when I saw the title… oh god you better hope she doesn’t hit that first shot before turning uninvis or it’s basically a free kill every cooldown.

    • @ItsHealz
      @ItsHealz ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Really bad.
      I've messed with the workshop and in testing an invisible Widowmaker didn't do that much.

    • @bonic7217
      @bonic7217 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      So strix from Paladins?

    • @account-pb2df
      @account-pb2df ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If the team sticks together and has a rein there isn't much she can do. She gets one free kill, rein holds his shield in her direction and then the widow becomes useless
      If she's forced to stay on a payload, control point or push bot she loses so much value as a sniper character

  • @kontenerking
    @kontenerking ปีที่แล้ว +28

    A support character that could be stealth is a dream come true for me so this video kinda puts the perspective of how it would look like.

    • @aSheepy
      @aSheepy ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah, like a 5 second invisibility to escape or whatever would be interesting. But infinite like sombra would be kinda unfair.

  • @tiannacowan6999
    @tiannacowan6999 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    This was my favorite video in the series yet! Whip shot + take a breather is basically just Brig as a tank. Even if it's not the most flashy build, I think it might be the best one yet.

  • @Kaiiiyn
    @Kaiiiyn ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Invisible Genji. He will actually be like a ninja

  • @harrison7716
    @harrison7716 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Marbl is sitting somewhere watching people get all these good abilities

  • @freddykrueger9233
    @freddykrueger9233 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Brig's gameplay is so pure you can mix it with anything. That's delicious !

  • @jamesmcintyre2676
    @jamesmcintyre2676 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Zenn seems to shred any of these randomizers. Despite high health values that orb just effectively crushes the inflated numbers back down.

    • @mr.conductor4938
      @mr.conductor4938 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Zen shreds literally anything and everyone in the entire game.

  • @ZaWrldo
    @ZaWrldo ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Brig has ascended to be a true raid boss with the second build

  • @jennybrooks6084
    @jennybrooks6084 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That first one is a straight up DBD kit 😭💀

  • @tepmurt76
    @tepmurt76 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    "Let's check on the Bronze players!" *Lifeweaver screams in surprise*

    • @Ryhzen
      @Ryhzen ปีที่แล้ว +2

      LOL SO TRUE my lifeweaver has so surprised

  • @zerocool7141
    @zerocool7141 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The 2nd Brig random was OP and super fun to watch.

  • @FireGodDabi
    @FireGodDabi ปีที่แล้ว +3

    His take a breather had no cooldown 💀

    • @lobstering4life480
      @lobstering4life480 ปีที่แล้ว

      ive been looking for someone else who noticed that

  • @pandoraarts7748
    @pandoraarts7748 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    17:49 I am Dying over that yelp of surprise. 🤣

  • @xelixus
    @xelixus ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I want to see invisible rein now

  • @flyingfajitas
    @flyingfajitas ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Actual tank Brig. That was awesome to watch.

    • @PewPewShootEmUp
      @PewPewShootEmUp ปีที่แล้ว

      Lol u should see me when the tank dies in overtime 🤣

  • @rediocre4350
    @rediocre4350 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If I had a Nicole for every time he said "Stealth Brig"

  • @lamparo7028
    @lamparo7028 ปีที่แล้ว

    17:49 that scream after being killed made me so sad omgosh

  • @willwunsche6940
    @willwunsche6940 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Translocator invis Widowmaker with annilation

    • @falloutguy4700
      @falloutguy4700 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'd trade Ram ult for Grav: Widow pops out of nowhere, makes whoever she wants stay still for easy headshots, and then just dips. Actual horror movie character lol

    • @willwunsche6940
      @willwunsche6940 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@falloutguy4700 Lol yeah. Only thing to worry about is if the enemy team has a shield like Sigma or Rein

  • @chroniccomplainer3792
    @chroniccomplainer3792 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Invisible + junker queen slice would be soooo good

  • @arrrnora
    @arrrnora ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cactus sounds stressed, hope they were having fun.

  • @lunaroracle
    @lunaroracle ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Everytime I see these, I love them, but wow, I would simply not be enjoying myself on the Push games

  • @miltaire3235
    @miltaire3235 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I’m surprised noone on the enemy team immediately switched to Pharah Mercy on a close range only Brig. then again it’s bronze.

    • @readyplayermaddy7513
      @readyplayermaddy7513 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Flyers are banned for the bronze team as well as sombra

  • @nic44444
    @nic44444 ปีที่แล้ว

    the invisibrig build is my favorite randomizer build so far. so so fun to watch!

  • @thebighoney9034
    @thebighoney9034 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is what Flats sees on the corner of the room in the middle of the night.

  • @nerdherder9340
    @nerdherder9340 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think orisa might need to go into the timeout corner

    • @ForeverDegenerate
      @ForeverDegenerate ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah. This is solid proof of how overtuned Orisa is. When a Stat Boosted Brig can't kill a Healer Pocketed Orisa without using Ult (and Orisa's own Ult at that), there's a problem.

    • @Ryhzen
      @Ryhzen ปีที่แล้ว

      What did I do to deserve that 💀

    • @concinnus
      @concinnus ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Ryhzen Well, you seemed to hit most of your spears, for one. Don't seem bronze at all.

  • @Caiofoca
    @Caiofoca ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The fact that orisa can indefinitely facetank what is basically half a team hitting her nonstop with a single support healing her is so wonky.

    • @SuperThest
      @SuperThest ปีที่แล้ว

      Brig’s base damage is lower than most supports healing so it’s not that surprising. Her swings at 2.5x stats are still less damage than a single soldier 76 or even a single Zen.

    • @Tee_B
      @Tee_B ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@SuperThestBrig with 2.5x does more damage to fortify than Zen.

    • @SuperThest
      @SuperThest ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Tee_B no. Brig with 2.5 stats does about 146/sec with swings. With fortify that’s only 73/sec. Zen with a discord orb does 150/sec and can headshot to do up to 300/sec. With Fortify that’s still 90/sec.

    • @Tee_B
      @Tee_B ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SuperThest 2.5x brig does more damage to fortify than base stats Zen man. I don't know why you're arguing this.

    • @SuperThest
      @SuperThest ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Tee_B I don’t know why you would argue a smaller number is more than a larger number?? Are you basing it on the zen missing because it’s not like Cactus was able to make uninterrupted and consistent contact with Brig’s swings in that fight.

  • @SyrKonrat
    @SyrKonrat ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This makes me realise how i want sombre to work.
    Hack changed to "make a teammate invisible".
    would cross into support territory though

    • @jonathanparra2758
      @jonathanparra2758 ปีที่แล้ว

      Honestly she would be an interesting support

    • @knyt0
      @knyt0 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      she can already heal her team, one of the best healers in mystery heroes

  • @seansters
    @seansters ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Brig in her villain arc.

  • @KrackFr
    @KrackFr ปีที่แล้ว

    Cactuspuppy getting bullied by the orisa is just full on karma for him putting that damned character in the demon lord mode lol

  • @CYWNightmare
    @CYWNightmare ปีที่แล้ว

    Brig with Sombra stealth is gonna be awesome

  • @xdHyperz
    @xdHyperz ปีที่แล้ว

    The jesse eisenberg of overwatch, im here for it lmao

  • @Paddingtonn
    @Paddingtonn ปีที่แล้ว +3

    omg real cactuspuppy

    • @CactusPuppy
      @CactusPuppy ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Organic, non-GMO CactusPuppy

  • @lperino07
    @lperino07 ปีที่แล้ว

    increased translucency should be on the mod wheel

  • @unwrittenemmy098
    @unwrittenemmy098 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is what I mean when I say “play brig like a tank”

  • @sladeofriviatv
    @sladeofriviatv ปีที่แล้ว

    Brig became Batman!

  • @Yellow_-if2gu
    @Yellow_-if2gu ปีที่แล้ว

    9:31 Goodbye, Trap :D

  • @admiralkizarusambassador3493
    @admiralkizarusambassador3493 ปีที่แล้ว

    An invisible tank brig is crazy

  • @kiran2step748
    @kiran2step748 ปีที่แล้ว

    does anyone else not notice he contests payload while still invisible

  • @rockorocko5488
    @rockorocko5488 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love your videos! The last match when u were both talking at the same time made me dizzy 😵‍💫

  • @High_Groundd
    @High_Groundd ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love this series, personally tho I think that push shouldn’t be a map that’s played because it’s so disadvantageous for the buffed 1 with bot being pushed all the time and ppl just sitting miles away. Ig yes it’s a nice challenge but you can still get that on escort and hybrid and it’s a bit more balanced. I will admit also that control is also maybe a bit bias for the buffed 1 but as a second map is maybe alright, it’s not as big of a advantage as push is for the bronzes I don’t think

  • @EvonneSol
    @EvonneSol ปีที่แล้ว

    Consider this: Rein with wallride

  • @Sahilow
    @Sahilow ปีที่แล้ว +1

    necros

  • @omarrm-m
    @omarrm-m ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is terrifying...

  • @Waffl3B1T
    @Waffl3B1T ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh the title sounds terrifying

  • @knyt0
    @knyt0 ปีที่แล้ว

    The 2nd one is just brig but with self heal instead of teammate heal

  • @loopadoop
    @loopadoop ปีที่แล้ว

    Did he have multiple hog heal charges? I saw cactus use take a breather and the CD didn't show

  • @FunBoyHereThere
    @FunBoyHereThere ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You should bring small creators *cough kedler cough*

  • @Solomon00000
    @Solomon00000 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Brig best tank.

  • @mjtheko
    @mjtheko ปีที่แล้ว

    Thar coloseeo was very winnable but he kept target switching/refusing to burst the orisa. lw heals but he doesn't heal so much that the orisa is immortal , especially after grip.
    Really good build tho highly entertaining.

  • @SWBPro
    @SWBPro ปีที่แล้ว

    Bro we got spy from tf2 but with a mace

  • @gabriellucasps2452
    @gabriellucasps2452 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love hero randomizer, anda I wanna paly so much, and make builds its kinda funny S2S2

  • @ofirmedini6561
    @ofirmedini6561 ปีที่แล้ว

    The ult is just the purple suck not the nemesis form and block and vortex and phunches with way nore damage right?

  • @DDRDAIKENKAI
    @DDRDAIKENKAI ปีที่แล้ว

    lmao @19:40 how did Ana get slept through the wall??

  • @Popcorn10235
    @Popcorn10235 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did the road hog heal not have a cooldown?!?

  • @raileite5994
    @raileite5994 ปีที่แล้ว

    Should have tried invisible ram ult

  • @roland8357
    @roland8357 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can u go invisible to "cleanse" anti?

  • @angiejensen1972
    @angiejensen1972 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if Ramattra’s ult triggers Brig’s healing passive..

    • @ForeverDegenerate
      @ForeverDegenerate ปีที่แล้ว

      It does because it's Brig using Flail during Annihilation. Annihilation just gives Brig a Field of Death around her.

  • @cineva-wb1pk
    @cineva-wb1pk ปีที่แล้ว

    Imagine this with OW1 Brig. ...

  • @toxxicalia7033
    @toxxicalia7033 ปีที่แล้ว

    what is the hero randomizer workshop code? i have been very curious of it

  • @TiagoMorbusSa
    @TiagoMorbusSa ปีที่แล้ว +1

    cactuspuppy sounds so hot

  • @Agentmgd82
    @Agentmgd82 ปีที่แล้ว

    We need a jay3 on Ashe or a zbra on doomfist randomizer

  • @TutchMaibaulz
    @TutchMaibaulz ปีที่แล้ว +1

    nice

  • @Wizardbeard91
    @Wizardbeard91 ปีที่แล้ว

    So random is fun but what about 1.5 bronze team vs buffed top 500 where the top 500 picks their character AND build

  • @CevsyOld
    @CevsyOld ปีที่แล้ว

    What do y’all think would be the most broken build possible for 1v5? I was thinking sojourn with Moira fade hog heal and slam

    • @ForeverDegenerate
      @ForeverDegenerate ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If it's a T500 behind the wheel? Sojourn with Crossfade (you get both Healing and Speed at your command), Overload, and EMP.

    • @CevsyOld
      @CevsyOld ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ForeverDegenerate you’re right I didn’t even think of crossfade that’d be really good

  • @Than211
    @Than211 ปีที่แล้ว

    I feel like the robot push maps are too much in favor of the team of 5; I feel to make it fair, if the team of 5 cannot make it to the end by the time runs out, then it is considered their loss. Or, at the very least, if the robot has not reached past the first check point when time is up. As it stands, the one player would have to constantly baby sit the robot and not be able to leave it because as soon as they step away, it gets stolen and they have to chase down the robot every time.

  • @nathanurry4893
    @nathanurry4893 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is there a map code for this yet?

  • @VileDullahan
    @VileDullahan ปีที่แล้ว

    Was it just a visual bug or did Take a Breather literally have no cooldown? That would have made him unkillable apart from AntiNade if Cactus noticed that

    • @TROLLSKI_
      @TROLLSKI_ ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's a bug with workshop, can't fix it. Some abilities just don't report back their cooldown to workshop.

  • @ananthukrishna5259
    @ananthukrishna5259 ปีที่แล้ว

    once again we can see that only Marblr gets the cursed rolls.... LOL

  • @CaelenSawyers
    @CaelenSawyers ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Lol 15:14 I assure you Bronze players don't play with sound on, you're fine.

  • @lydiarobertson8932
    @lydiarobertson8932 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brig stand user orisa stand

  • @FenekkuKitsune
    @FenekkuKitsune ปีที่แล้ว

    Yeah, lowering his damage made it impossible. Brig doesn't have the damage to go through them fast enough, and Orisa is freakin' unkillable. Without any amazing damage abilities, he can't win.

  • @RoOrange7503
    @RoOrange7503 ปีที่แล้ว

    what is this custom game called?

  • @jonbovi8008
    @jonbovi8008 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does anyone have the code for this mode? I wanna play it with some friends

  • @BlazenDrDOOM
    @BlazenDrDOOM ปีที่แล้ว

    Is this code available to use?

  • @ei492
    @ei492 ปีที่แล้ว

    Scary

  • @cheems2524
    @cheems2524 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brigitte Jumpscare

  • @Alpharad1620
    @Alpharad1620 ปีที่แล้ว

    What’s the code???

  • @devilsnake6366
    @devilsnake6366 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is the code

  • @julianarincon2625
    @julianarincon2625 ปีที่แล้ว

    Emongg I love your videos and I love you ❤

  • @Notafemboy385
    @Notafemboy385 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Video idea: you have Gm players vs bronze or gold the Gm have random abilities and the golds choose or/ the gm chose but Gold is buffed normal ability’s. I am just curious on how top level players will use the randomized. Or what combos they will make.

  • @thx_arrow-tj9vo
    @thx_arrow-tj9vo ปีที่แล้ว +1

    helo

  • @Shotgundude1
    @Shotgundude1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can someone tell me how to do this myself

  • @andrewwood1364
    @andrewwood1364 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love this, but push really isn't fair in this mode.

  • @hogridagaming
    @hogridagaming ปีที่แล้ว +2

    i think instead of bronze players you should get players of all different ranks

  • @xendolawesome
    @xendolawesome ปีที่แล้ว

    I would love to try this, im silver stuck but feel as though i'd demolish no matter what i get

    • @jaydenhohman2590
      @jaydenhohman2590 ปีที่แล้ว

      Everyone thinks "oh I can do this easily!!" Until they're actually put in the arena lmao

  • @TOTLUNIALAYSHUN135
    @TOTLUNIALAYSHUN135 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just noticed that Cactus was getting ult charge for his next Annihilation during the initial one. Not sure if it's an oversight but doesn't really take away from the fun. Love this series!

    • @ForeverDegenerate
      @ForeverDegenerate ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's because of how this Workshop Mode works. It's not the player character using the Ult (unless they happen to roll their actual Ult), it's the character whose Ult it is using the Ult. For Example, when he used Orisa Ult, Phantom Orisa spawned in to do it. Because it's not Brig actually using Annihilation, but rather it's Rammattra coming in to Annihilate for Brig, Brig can still gain Ult Charge independent of Annihilation. It's the same reason why if you have any of Junkrat's Abilities, when you die, Total Mayhem procs. Because when you die, all the heroes whose abilities you have die with you. And when Junkrat dies, Total Mayhem procs. This actually makes Junkrat's abilities among the best to roll since you get his Bonus Total Mayhem Passive.

    • @NicoleAllen-r6g
      @NicoleAllen-r6g ปีที่แล้ว

      So do u know the code to this workshop map or is it still in development?

    • @ForeverDegenerate
      @ForeverDegenerate ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NicoleAllen-r6g No I didn't work on this Workshop. Emongg had this commissioned by someone else and it's still in development. I think he does plan to share the Workshop ID for it at some point.

  • @ryancarlino6147
    @ryancarlino6147 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you ban Orisa from this too? Its almost as unfun to watch as when theyre playing sombra

  • @itzzsfx
    @itzzsfx ปีที่แล้ว

    hi

  • @bigfudge2031
    @bigfudge2031 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think he could have won that first game if he played it a bit smarter.

    • @ForeverDegenerate
      @ForeverDegenerate ปีที่แล้ว

      Nah. Playing Smarter had nothing do with it. If he had just played a few rounds with that build to get used to have Stealth instead of Whip Shot, he would have won easy. It's just the adjustment period of realizing you don't have your base kit.

    • @bigfudge2031
      @bigfudge2031 ปีที่แล้ว

      when they went high ground at the end, he could have sat underneath them and they would have dropped down, or he could have gone invisible and pushed the payload.

  • @djlemon40
    @djlemon40 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    It would be nice if you would ban bastion sym TORB combo. Can play one of the other , but none of the three can be in combo as dps. It’s no longer 1v5, it makes it 1v6 plus. It would be nice to not see TORB turret and sym turrets or a bastion EVERY SINGLE GAME.

  • @cristobalgarces1675
    @cristobalgarces1675 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Orisa is so overtuned. Even in the "for fun" game modes. So overpowered since there's only one target to focus.

    • @Ryhzen
      @Ryhzen ปีที่แล้ว

      True but it was just for fun nothing competitive wise I had a lot of fun playing her and junker, queen and ramatra

  • @HXD007
    @HXD007 ปีที่แล้ว

    Release brig would still beat this brig

  • @EmeraldCavaliers
    @EmeraldCavaliers ปีที่แล้ว +1

    this is busted

  • @CanadianCat101
    @CanadianCat101 ปีที่แล้ว

    You cannot tell me that the tracer player in these bronze videos is bronze, the amount of shots they hit, pulses they land and the way they blink is at least gold, at most low diamond