I understand partly why they don't have toilets, but for someone with Crohn's disease or similar, it can make it an absolute nightmare to travel - especially if the train gets stuck between stations. Even just the one toilet per train would be a lifesaver.
It's going to be as hard for people with bowel conditions on the Elizabeth line when it opens as there's no toilets on those either, despite serving Reading.
I didn't realise that 3+2 seating was purely for advertised capacity to win franchises. How much have passengers suffered for something that makes traisn less pleasant to use. Good to hear they are on the way out!
Strictly speaking they're not 'on the way out!' The total collapse of the franchise system means (as I understand it) that everything's in limbo and nobody knows what the next generation of trains will have. With the record of UK Government's it probably won't be good. Open topped standard class and pay to use toilets maybe?
Or, to loose a few seated passengers but gain space for an awful lot more Standing passengers (You pay to be transported from origin to destination, not for a seat to transport you...\\0)
@@rowanNClangley The thing is that 2+2 gives much more space for standing. 3+2 gives less, but gives a theoretical 25% increase in seats. It does no such thing, and makes everything else on the train much worse. People pay for what they think is best value. This Government are making using a car and giving up working serious options.
I'd like to say, I'm very impressed with the rail staff members' ability to look into the camera when being interviewed. There are a lot of "professional youtubers" that aren't even good at that.
Excellent Video Geoff, love the fact that this will be my new local train! And great seeing you on board too just by luck which absolutely made my day! Keep it up!
The reason for the earth pin being at the top is so that, if a plug is not fully inserted, a metal object resting in the gap will hit the earth rather than the live or neutral. Although, with the sleeved pins on all modern plugs, this wouldn't really be a concern, so the traditional orientation isn't as important anymore.
If the plug is under the seat it is best for it to be upside down (earth pin pointing to ground). The London Overground 710 units have usb chargers at end of carriages which are useful. The Greater Anglia 379 units have plugs in the 2 seats (airline style) which are just below the window).
Thanks for the video, brilliant! It is on my local toc, I have been exited for this train for over a year. I am going on the train on Saturday. If anyone wants to travel on the class 707, here is the full list of services on weekdays: Sidcup Line: 05:31 Crayford to Cannon Street 06:19 Crayford to Charing Cross 09:18 Charing Cross to Gravesend 09:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich 10:48 Gravesend to Charing Cross 14:18 Charing Cross to Gravesend 14:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich 15:48 Gravesend to Charing Cross 17:02 Charing Cross to Gravesend 18:18 Gravesend to Charing Cross 19:32 Charing Cross to Dartford 19:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich Grove Park Line: 06:20 Cannon Street to Orpington 07:11 Orpington to Cannon Street 11:20 Cannon Street to Orpington 12:11 Orpington to Cannon Street 16:20 Cannon Street to Orpington 17:11 Orpington to Cannon Street 21:20 Cannon Street to Orpington 22:11 Orpington to Cannon Street Hayes Line: 07:57 Cannon Street to Hayes 08:45 Hayes to Cannon Street 12:57 Cannon Street to Hayes 13:45 Hayes to Cannon Street 17:57 Cannon Street to Hayes 18:45 Hayes to Cannon Street 22:57 Cannon Street to Hayes Bexleyheath Line: 08:16 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich 15:17 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich 17:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich 19:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich Woolwich Line: 07:09 Slade Green to Cannon Street 07:12 Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham 08:11 Dartford to Charing Cross via Lewisham 08:16 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich 09:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich 12:12 Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham 13:11 Dartford to Charing Cross via Lewisham 14:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich 19:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich 15:17 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich 17:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich 19:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
Paul is a great guy who I saw twice at New Cross when on test. He told me about the first units being in the new livery and helped me film it on the first trip out! That 707 pin 😍
Scotrail runs 2 car 156 and 158s, 3 car 153/156, 170 and 385s, 4 car 156 and 158s, 5 car 170/158 combo and 6 car 318, 320, 334 and 385 as well as 7 car and 8 car 385s. Potentially could run 153 as a single unit too.
Those 6/7/8 carriage trains are all formed of multiple units, and cannot be formed using a single unit, so ScotRail don't count in my books. How many individual units with ScotRail have at least 6 carriages?
If multiple, multiple units are coupled together then Southeastern would also operate 7-car through to 12-car trains. if kept strictly to a single multiple unit then East Midlands Railway might win, who operate 1-car through to 7-car units (excluding 6-car).
A good example of good seating is the difference between Southern's 455 and the SWT refurbished 455s. The Southern are packed with seats, 3+2, with narrow aisles. The SWT refurbishment are 2+2 seats with lots of circulation space around the door vestibules. The SWT/SWR 455s and hands down far superior to the Southern 455s. Likewise the Merseyrail 507s+8s and the new 777s are 2+2 and much better for it.
3 ปีที่แล้ว +34
In addition to the Window Shoulder Test, I would like to suggest the Shoulder On My Neighbour Test. There have been rants and multi-page articles on this topic in the magazine pictured in this video ;-) That would be a nice video topic : the real-life test of how people effectively sit on train seats, based on seat width, ajacent seat spacing and the presence or absence of a separator between adjacent seats; for a selection of different train Classes and interor layouts.
Lack of elbow support - Proof positive that industrial designers of trains don't use same on a regular basis. Plug sockets under seats ? Just where your retracted heels will catch them and the cable ? Euh ? How about locating them, recessed and flapped, in the lower window architrave or upright at elbow level . . . . .in the forward facing part of an elbow/arm rest ? A limited ability to swivel/displace (Front/back) the seats nearest the aisle might assist it accommodating "Rangier" clientele as well as promoting easier ingress/egress to the seating.
I commuted to London Victoria foresight years, in 3 +2 cars. Very early on,I got fed up with manspreaders on the 3 seaters. I would tell them loudly that I paid more for my season ticket if they embarked after me and that I should not have to be scrunched up so they could spread their legs and give their tackle more room.
I used to drive the old networker 465/466 units and one of their major faults was the plug type doors. The 707s have encapsulated doors so they in themselves will be far more reliable. I have had to take a train out of service at Greenwich on the up because of sheer number of passengers crammed on board caused a set if doors to fall off their runners and i could not get the doors to shut, no matter what, ( this was in about 1995 ).
My girlfriend lives in Staines, so I have often ridden on these to get into london (as well as 450/455/458s). However, I missed the first 6 to go to SE, so I haven't yet seen 003-008 at all (which haven't been reliveried and entered service with SE yet). Can't wait to head across to SE territory and ride these (although I do also need to get in as many 465/466s as possible before they go)
I Iove that you can see all the way through the carriages , I live in Sidcup so I am real happy, I met you twice in one week in Bromley South when lockdown just came in,,, I’d just came out of Greggs,, I checked out the two Subways with in 50 metres of each other in Glasgow and got great photo of it,,, keep filming mate it’s so refreshing , your work is full of interesting facts , best of luck Gerry
I'm fairly sure ScotRail operates trains of length 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 as well as 7 and 8. 2 car: Classes 156 and 158 3 car: Classes 170, 318, 320, 380, 385 and probably more? 4 car: Class 380, 385 5 car: Either 158 + 170 in combo or the recently lengthened 5 car HSTs (not including PCs) 6 car: Various of the 3 car units doubled up 7 car: Not sure how often these run now but 7 car 385 sets (3 car + 4 car) were being run while those units were first being rolled out 8 car: Class 385s doubled up Now we just need them to run single 153s... actually no we really don't.
At least these trains have the sockets in the whole train on these 707s unlike the 700s, yes I do realise first class has them and coach 12 is always declassified and on the long services services and declassified in both on metro services
SWR did the right thing getting rid of these hideous trains, however it's definitely a good thing that SE picked them up, as they have been refurbished to a decent standard, especially the space, honestly I'm impressed.
i get on the 707s every week at waterloo going to Battersea as some of them are still with southwestern and now i get go on them coming home and they are a smooth ride
To answer "Is Southeastern the only TOC to run Trains in continuous car lengths", if it includes joining more than one unit together, Transport for Wales do operate services as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 car lengths. I think once they've even had 7 cars on a service with a 3-car and 2 2-car 175s all coupled together.
I've seen these at Orpington they look really smart.. I also saw these when still in southwest livery a few months ago when they were being tested by SE running Through Orpington station.
I love your work & the info that you provide. But watching on TH-cam, after this video, TH-cam started your earlier blog of Underground : USA and even though I've previously watched it I enjoyed a second time as I do love your work. Thanks!
In Answer to the last question about SE operating 2/3/4/5/6 coach trains Scotrail also come close if you count the 385/380s running in multiple with a through corridor connection. 158/156 (2 Car) 158-153/170 (3 Car) 380/385 (4 Car) Inter7City (HST+5) (5 Car) 380/385/320/318 x2 (6 Car)
I had my first ride on 28 September out of Cannon Street and it was also the 11.20. The 707s are a vast improvement on the tired old Networkers, and I really like the scrolling destination information that lists all the stations. No more wondering if I am on the right train or straining to hear the announcement at stations down the line. Thanks for the overview and mention of things we humble travellers do not notice.
Platform 1 for the 12:15 southeastern service to Hayes via Catford bridge calling at : London Bridge, new Cross, st John's, Lewisham, ladywell, Catford bridge, lower Sydenham, new Beckenham, clock house, Elmers end, Eden park, West Wickham & Hayes. This train has 10 coaches. Platform 1 for the 12:15 southeastern service to Hayes via Catford bridge. There are unusually many seats avaliable on this train. (City Beam)
Did enjoy the irony of pointing out the wheelchair bay while approaching Albany Park, a station with (quite steep and numerous) steps to both platforms.
3:16 United Kindom: Do you want sockets that are rightside up or upside down? Mainland Europe: What on earth do you mean? Our sockets have 180° rotational symmetry, they are usable both ways.
Great review, Geoff - to me (not a rivet counter), they are the Thames link trains with a different paint job. Shame there’s no toilets - a real retrograde step. Still, they are bright and shiny and smoooooth
Plugs should be the correct way up. There’s a safety aspect there (British plugs best plug) and it’s more familiar for visually impaired users. Toilets would be nice too please.
Agreed - think at least one of the reasons is if something conductive were to wall and wedge between the plug and the socket with it the correct way up (earth on top) it would bridge either earth and neutral (no issue) or earth and live (leading to RCD cutting power) rather than neutral and live
The half-hourly trains to Dartford via the Sidcup line currently exrend to Gravesend, and one's just turned up there, forming the next service out back to Charing Cross!!
SWR operate 2 car (159/456), 3 car (159), 4 car (450/455) and 5 car (444/458) units and the new 701’s will be 5 & 10 car. They also operate combinations of 5,6,8 & 10 car multiple workings so I guess they come closest.
Having driven these (and the remaining units) with SWT and now SWR I can say most drivers will sadly miss these. And yes @Geoff Marshall the acceleration and deceleration is excellent. So easy to keep to time (everything else being good) in the 707. We sent the 707 to the Shepperton road specifically to troubleshoot punctuality with great success. Yes, shame to loose them for sure.
Ah, yes these so far may be the fastest to accelerate as a 100mph unit for DC. they are/were the fastest on the entire SWR network. Much faster than 450s and 444s since they also go 100mph for fair comparison Also Ia curious question , I was on a class 458 that went to Wimbledon? Is that a result of the 707s being moved to southeastern or was that one 458 shepperton service a rarity? Asking incase you might know as you are a driver.
and your now getting lovely Bombadier/Alstom Aventra units, well at some point once all the issues with them have been ironed out! Why SWR decided than untried/untested Aventras were a good idea when most of the SWR/SWT electric stock is Siemens I don't know. I'm guessing SWR might have been "pushed" to go for the "British" option whereas in reality build quality/reliability should have been the deciding factor, even LU have gone Siemens when Bombadier could have had the order in the bag if they hadn't screwed LU over.
@@bb-3653 so all our EMU’s are AC (except the class 456). DC current is collected, but then goes through the TCU (traction converter unit), to around 415v ac then x4 ac motors (per DMC). The 707 is 100 mph capable but was/is restricted to 90 mph on SWR. Regarding 458’s on ‘other’ routes (Reading road being there main work now) this can be for a few reasons which I don’t get involved in really. But can be for crew knowledge/retention. More of a train crew planning question.
@@DesiroDriver so does that mean they are caster as a result of the 90mph restriction.. or is it a thing where if they were able go 100mph they would be just as fast as if they were 90mph restricted? And I see i guess it I'd yet to be seen whether it is permanent for the 458s. Or if it is a common occurrence at the time that I went on it.
Three years ago I had a brief ride from Clapham Junction into Waterloo on a Class 707 when they were with South Western. I quite enjoyed the ride then. They look absolutely fantastic in their new role with South Eastern. Now I wonder if the Class 700 and 717 units will get the somewhat better seats these units have when they come up for overhaul. Fortunately for me, I only had the briefest ride on the ironboard seats from Three Bridges to Gatwick Airport the morning I flew out on my way home downunder via Vancouver BC. Great coverage as always Geoff.
I can't think of any other TOCs that operate 2-6, but Southern come close: 2 on the Marshlink, 3 on the West/East Coastway, 4 on everything and 5 on the updated 377 metros.
They look very smart, but I wish they had maybe put the SE light blue on the sides of the front. The splodge of yellow just around the headlights looks a bit odd as it doesn't really "line up" with the yellow panel in the middle. Especially as it's not even the same shade of yellow!
Think Chris is right at the end there. I cannot think of any other class of train, other than the class 395s, that are formed and built as 6 carriage units
I think Southern also runs 2,3,4,5 and 6 car trains too (2 car on the diesel lines, 3 car on the south coast trains, 4 and 6 cars to Southampton and Portsmouth and 5 car on south London metro)
@@nicolasblume1046 On a German socket, yes, there is an earth contact top and bottom. On a French socket there is a protruding earth pin at the top only.
They gave us this "new trains" line in Bristol when they cascaded 25-year-old Turbos to replace Sprinters a few years ago. At least these are only three or four years old.
Has it been mentioned yet? ScotRail run even more consists of units: 2 car - 156, 158 3 car - 156+153, 170, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385 4 car - 156, 158, 380, 385 5 car - 158+170 6 car - 156, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385 7 car - 380 (Sometimes 385) 8 car - 380, 385
They look superb and I look forward to travelling on them. Remember that the 465 class have been in service now since 1991 in some cases, and even the 376 are some 17 years old now. The former look ancient by comparison and are a miserable place to spend a half hour commute. But with only 30 due in service I wonder how many will be on the Bexleyheath line for example
SWR run all formations, or can do it with 158/159 combinations that run anything from 2 up to 9 car formations. Some aren't regular formations but you do see them when unit faults occur. Also Southern can run any formation from 2 to 12 car now with their 377s and 171s
Are you typically using a normal plug with a wire, or a charger with a USB port on it (as the latter can potentially go in one of 5 different directions!)?
@@neville132bbk Yes, it is in the wiring standard that, in a plug with a permanently attached cable, it must exit through the bottom. While you do see plug in transformers with wires that come out any side, this is because the wires are low voltage and the "mains" wire never actually exited the "plug".
Please send this to Northern so they can see what a door vestibule grab pole looks like so they can fit them to 195s. On busy services if you can't get down the carriage or near the door you have to stand with nothing to grab on to. Not easy on rough track.
i just take southeastern from Cannon street to London bridge, during peak hours the trains were too crowded due to the seats taking so much space. it's a good thing new trains have more standing space so more people can fit into the train. only downside to me seems the lack of toilets. Only one thing for you Geoff to make the video perfect: as you got to London Bridge, last shot should have been southestern (plat 3) and thamelink (plat 4) 700 series next to each others :)
![Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]](/img/n.gif)
I understand partly why they don't have toilets, but for someone with Crohn's disease or similar, it can make it an absolute nightmare to travel - especially if the train gets stuck between stations. Even just the one toilet per train would be a lifesaver.
Southeasten did recently retro fit toilets on one of their fleets, it might happen
@UCfIU-ZwW5d7mA3YZIA7I4fQ Probably, yes. The 717s don’t have toilets but the 700/701s do, both on Thameslink
@@prduguid No, they didn't.
Yeah. I’ve got IBS, numerous times the toilets on trains have really saved my bacon, and knowing trains have toilets is a relief (pun intended).
It's going to be as hard for people with bowel conditions on the Elizabeth line when it opens as there's no toilets on those either, despite serving Reading.
So cool to see rolling stock being upgraded! I love the look of the 707 . . . they remind me of the Heathrow Express Stock.
Bro what are u doing here
The 332?
Ayyy RMtransit 😁 I like your videos that cover transit in other parts of the world especially north America
🇨🇦💞🇬🇧 🚉
@@ambiguoustv2287 he likes transport u muppet
Nice to hear passengers called as "passengers" by TOC staff.
As opposed to livestock, which is much more reflective of how they get treated sometimes..
I think the plug sockets should be upside-down, less pressure on the cable in my opinion.
I didn't realise that 3+2 seating was purely for advertised capacity to win franchises. How much have passengers suffered for something that makes traisn less pleasant to use. Good to hear they are on the way out!
Strictly speaking they're not 'on the way out!' The total collapse of the franchise system means (as I understand it) that everything's in limbo and nobody knows what the next generation of trains will have. With the record of UK Government's it probably won't be good. Open topped standard class and pay to use toilets maybe?
Southeastern lost their franchise due to fraud rather than any operational reason
Or, to loose a few seated passengers but gain space for an awful lot more Standing passengers (You pay to be transported from origin to destination, not for a seat to transport you...\\0)
@@rowanNClangley The thing is that 2+2 gives much more space for standing. 3+2 gives less, but gives a theoretical 25% increase in seats. It does no such thing, and makes everything else on the train much worse. People pay for what they think is best value. This Government are making using a car and giving up working serious options.
Chris and Phil in the same video! What a treat.
@@geofftech2 please. You said it so it must happen
I'd like to say, I'm very impressed with the rail staff members' ability to look into the camera when being interviewed. There are a lot of "professional youtubers" that aren't even good at that.
I can't wait to be in London in less than a week and visit all these spots from your videos! I've been looking forward to this moment for years
I miss my jaunts to various places there. Have fun!
Excellent Video Geoff, love the fact that this will be my new local train! And great seeing you on board too just by luck which absolutely made my day! Keep it up!
This is my local train, it just only turns up once on my local linr
Hello Tim
@@elizabethmh_465 Hey Elizabeth
Fancy seeing you here tim 😂
@@thekentishtrainspotter3052 Jusy had to be here didn't I, couldn't miss it for the world 😂👍
These are better than I thought to be fare. They look nice in SE livery, nice video Geoff! :)
"...to be fare..." Good if unintended play on words.
@@neville132bbk Ok. I’m not trying. Also it’s a mistake. I will learn from it. No need to worry.
Geoff the train that has plug sockets that have the longer pin at the bottom is the class 745/755 FLIRT
Having used the 755 class for quite some time now, I really prefer the sockets being "upside down".
The reason for the earth pin being at the top is so that, if a plug is not fully inserted, a metal object resting in the gap will hit the earth rather than the live or neutral. Although, with the sleeved pins on all modern plugs, this wouldn't really be a concern, so the traditional orientation isn't as important anymore.
@@K-o-Rhe means the socket is upside down
If the plug is under the seat it is best for it to be upside down (earth pin pointing to ground).
The London Overground 710 units have usb chargers at end of carriages which are useful. The Greater Anglia 379 units have plugs in the 2 seats (airline style) which are just below the window).
Thanks for the video, brilliant! It is on my local toc, I have been exited for this train for over a year. I am going on the train on Saturday. If anyone wants to travel on the class 707, here is the full list of services on weekdays:
Sidcup Line:
05:31 Crayford to Cannon Street
06:19 Crayford to Charing Cross
09:18 Charing Cross to Gravesend
09:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich
10:48 Gravesend to Charing Cross
14:18 Charing Cross to Gravesend
14:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich
15:48 Gravesend to Charing Cross
17:02 Charing Cross to Gravesend
18:18 Gravesend to Charing Cross
19:32 Charing Cross to Dartford
19:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich
Grove Park Line:
06:20 Cannon Street to Orpington
07:11 Orpington to Cannon Street
11:20 Cannon Street to Orpington
12:11 Orpington to Cannon Street
16:20 Cannon Street to Orpington
17:11 Orpington to Cannon Street
21:20 Cannon Street to Orpington
22:11 Orpington to Cannon Street
Hayes Line:
07:57 Cannon Street to Hayes
08:45 Hayes to Cannon Street
12:57 Cannon Street to Hayes
13:45 Hayes to Cannon Street
17:57 Cannon Street to Hayes
18:45 Hayes to Cannon Street
22:57 Cannon Street to Hayes
Bexleyheath Line:
08:16 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
15:17 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
17:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
19:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
Woolwich Line:
07:09 Slade Green to Cannon Street
07:12 Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham
08:11 Dartford to Charing Cross via Lewisham
08:16 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
09:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich
12:12 Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham
13:11 Dartford to Charing Cross via Lewisham
14:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich
19:38 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Woolwich
15:17 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
17:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
19:15 Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Bexleyheath and Woolwich
They want good PR especially in front of someone like Geoff.
Cracking video my friend, I always enjoy what you do!!!
I gotta say that Chris is mind full of knowledge and always interesting. Good video Geoff.
I was just thinking ‘when is Geoff going to make a 707 video’
4 seconds later I get a TH-cam notification saying Geoff made a video
Much love (and appreciation) for Chris. And Phil
Chris is great value for money in Geoff's videos. I see a presenting team emerging... 😃
A beautiful upgrade. I'm fast becoming a South Eastern fan, ever since they introduced the Javelin.
Paul is a great guy who I saw twice at New Cross when on test. He told me about the first units being in the new livery and helped me film it on the first trip out! That 707 pin 😍
Scotrail runs 2 car 156 and 158s, 3 car 153/156, 170 and 385s, 4 car 156 and 158s, 5 car 170/158 combo and 6 car 318, 320, 334 and 385 as well as 7 car and 8 car 385s. Potentially could run 153 as a single unit too.
Good spot! ScotRail wins!
Just commented this myself without realising someone beat me to it! If we exclude the powercars, the newly lengthened HST sets count for 5 car also!
Those 6/7/8 carriage trains are all formed of multiple units, and cannot be formed using a single unit, so ScotRail don't count in my books. How many individual units with ScotRail have at least 6 carriages?
If multiple, multiple units are coupled together then Southeastern would also operate 7-car through to 12-car trains. if kept strictly to a single multiple unit then East Midlands Railway might win, who operate 1-car through to 7-car units (excluding 6-car).
Northern also runs almost everything from 1 to 6 cars, and even possible 8 cars sometimes?
A good example of good seating is the difference between Southern's 455 and the SWT refurbished 455s.
The Southern are packed with seats, 3+2, with narrow aisles. The SWT refurbishment are 2+2 seats with lots of circulation space around the door vestibules. The SWT/SWR 455s and hands down far superior to the Southern 455s. Likewise the Merseyrail 507s+8s and the new 777s are 2+2 and much better for it.
In addition to the Window Shoulder Test, I would like to suggest the Shoulder On My Neighbour Test. There have been rants and multi-page articles on this topic in the magazine pictured in this video ;-) That would be a nice video topic : the real-life test of how people effectively sit on train seats, based on seat width, ajacent seat spacing and the presence or absence of a separator between adjacent seats; for a selection of different train Classes and interor layouts.
I take up 1 1/2 of those ridiculous seats. That's just shoulder to shoulder.
Lack of elbow support - Proof positive that industrial designers of trains don't use same on a regular basis. Plug sockets under seats ? Just where your retracted heels will catch them and the cable ? Euh ? How about locating them, recessed and flapped, in the lower window architrave or upright at elbow level . . . . .in the forward facing part of an elbow/arm rest ?
A limited ability to swivel/displace (Front/back) the seats nearest the aisle might assist it accommodating "Rangier" clientele as well as promoting easier ingress/egress to the seating.
@@nicholasroberts6954 Or if they do use them,it's never when weary enough to adopt that pose.
I commuted to London Victoria foresight years, in 3 +2 cars. Very early on,I got fed up with manspreaders on the 3 seaters. I would tell them loudly that I paid more for my season ticket if they embarked after me and that I should not have to be scrunched up so they could spread their legs and give their tackle more room.
I used to drive the old networker 465/466 units and one of their major faults was the plug type doors. The 707s have encapsulated doors so they in themselves will be far more reliable. I have had to take a train out of service at Greenwich on the up because of sheer number of passengers crammed on board caused a set if doors to fall off their runners and i could not get the doors to shut, no matter what, ( this was in about 1995 ).
Don't care about the orientation of the passenger use sockets, the main thing is they work and continue to do so.
Fifty years ago a 4DD was dumped at Plumstead yard awaiting scrap. A noble experiment.
My girlfriend lives in Staines, so I have often ridden on these to get into london (as well as 450/455/458s). However, I missed the first 6 to go to SE, so I haven't yet seen 003-008 at all (which haven't been reliveried and entered service with SE yet). Can't wait to head across to SE territory and ride these (although I do also need to get in as many 465/466s as possible before they go)
Brilliant Video, love the clips of the Class 707s at different locations, need to try them on SouthEastern one day
Simon it will totally be a day out worth it and so need new trains
They've been running 5-car trains for years, The class 376 is that length.
I Iove that you can see all the way through the carriages , I live in Sidcup so I am real happy, I met you twice in one week in Bromley South when lockdown just came in,,, I’d just came out of Greggs,, I checked out the two Subways with in 50 metres of each other in Glasgow and got great photo of it,,, keep filming mate it’s so refreshing , your work is full of interesting facts , best of luck Gerry
I'm fairly sure ScotRail operates trains of length 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 as well as 7 and 8.
2 car: Classes 156 and 158
3 car: Classes 170, 318, 320, 380, 385 and probably more?
4 car: Class 380, 385
5 car: Either 158 + 170 in combo or the recently lengthened 5 car HSTs (not including PCs)
6 car: Various of the 3 car units doubled up
7 car: Not sure how often these run now but 7 car 385 sets (3 car + 4 car) were being run while those units were first being rolled out
8 car: Class 385s doubled up
Now we just need them to run single 153s... actually no we really don't.
they're referring to single units, not units coupled up
I love these trains. I can't wait to try them out!
At least these trains have the sockets in the whole train on these 707s unlike the 700s, yes I do realise first class has them and coach 12 is always declassified and on the long services services and declassified in both on metro services
Another great video! Love your work!
lovely video as always
Wow, it's a good day when Geoff and Georgia post on the same day!
Great new trains - nice to see Chris D too!
SWR did the right thing getting rid of these hideous trains, however it's definitely a good thing that SE picked them up, as they have been refurbished to a decent standard, especially the space, honestly I'm impressed.
Thank you for saying hello to Plumstead!
A nice looking train though. 👍
Fantastic video
i get on the 707s every week at waterloo going to Battersea as some of them are still with southwestern and now i get go on them coming home and they are a smooth ride
Great video! Thank you for sharing it Geoff.
Nice to see Jennifer out and about on the network. A great video as always Geoff
To answer "Is Southeastern the only TOC to run Trains in continuous car lengths", if it includes joining more than one unit together, Transport for Wales do operate services as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 car lengths. I think once they've even had 7 cars on a service with a 3-car and 2 2-car 175s all coupled together.
i think SE are the only ones if you exclude joining up units
Southeastern would also win at that as the only length they couldn't do is 1.
2 - 12 all very easily achieved, mostly with the help of the 375/3's!
EMR have 1, 2 3, 4 5 & 7 lengths,
I was waiting for this video ever since I came across my first one of these last week :))
Keep up the fab work, Geoff!
I've seen these at Orpington they look really smart.. I also saw these when still in southwest livery a few months ago when they were being tested by SE running Through Orpington station.
Recently moved away from the UK. I will forever miss the alien ringing of class 707 trains. It's the most memorable sound from my commute.
I love your work & the info that you provide. But watching on TH-cam, after this video, TH-cam started your earlier blog of Underground : USA and even though I've previously watched it I enjoyed a second time as I do love your work. Thanks!
In Answer to the last question about SE operating 2/3/4/5/6 coach trains Scotrail also come close if you count the 385/380s running in multiple with a through corridor connection.
158/156 (2 Car)
158-153/170 (3 Car)
380/385 (4 Car)
Inter7City (HST+5) (5 Car)
380/385/320/318 x2 (6 Car)
and the class 334 as well as 153s.
I don't think he's counting doubles/multi units, or Northern would be an easy answer
I had my first ride on 28 September out of Cannon Street and it was also the 11.20. The 707s are a vast improvement on the tired old Networkers, and I really like the scrolling destination information that lists all the stations. No more wondering if I am on the right train or straining to hear the announcement at stations down the line. Thanks for the overview and mention of things we humble travellers do not notice.
Love your videos Geoff. Your knowledge of trains is immense 👍
Feels strange seeing flash, clean trains ran by Southeastern.
More used to the grimey trains, that’s what I grew up on
Ooo that’s a great Q from Chris!
No others that have 2-6 car fixed sets BUT:
West Midlands Railway* & Scotrail have 1-5 car fixed sets.
WMR: 1-car 139, 2-car 170/196, 3-car 172/323/730, 4-car 196/350, 5-car 730
SR: 1-car 153, 2-car 156/158, 3-car 170/318/320/334/380/385, 4-car HST/380/385 & 5-car HST
*WMR 196s & 730s are not yet in service
The nearly ones are:
GWR (2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9)
EMR (1, 2, 4, 5, 7)
SN (2, 3, 4, 5)
SWR (2, 3, 4, 5, 10)
XC (2, 3, 4, 5, 7)
The only other six car sets are the 717s, so if you want to count the whole of GTR as one TOC, then that would fit the criteria
Unless you have two trains coupled together running as one; I've been on a "6 car" Northern 195 on the Styal line.
Platform 1 for the 12:15 southeastern service to Hayes via Catford bridge calling at : London Bridge, new Cross, st John's, Lewisham, ladywell, Catford bridge, lower Sydenham, new Beckenham, clock house, Elmers end, Eden park, West Wickham & Hayes. This train has 10 coaches. Platform 1 for the 12:15 southeastern service to Hayes via Catford bridge. There are unusually many seats avaliable on this train. (City Beam)
Did enjoy the irony of pointing out the wheelchair bay while approaching Albany Park, a station with (quite steep and numerous) steps to both platforms.
Ooooo I’m going to ride one of these when I go up to London at the end of the month
SW also run
2 - SIngle 158
3 - Single 159
4 - Single 450
5 - Single 444
6 - Double 159
trains
3:16
United Kindom: Do you want sockets that are rightside up or upside down?
Mainland Europe: What on earth do you mean? Our sockets have 180° rotational symmetry, they are usable both ways.
Great review, Geoff - to me (not a rivet counter), they are the Thames link trains with a different paint job. Shame there’s no toilets - a real retrograde step.
Still, they are bright and shiny and smoooooth
They are pretty much the same train. Awful seats, weird smell, weird lights. Blegh
Plugs should be the correct way up. There’s a safety aspect there (British plugs best plug) and it’s more familiar for visually impaired users.
Toilets would be nice too please.
"British plugs best plug" - come off it.
@@five-o5362 no plugs are better.
Agreed - think at least one of the reasons is if something conductive were to wall and wedge between the plug and the socket with it the correct way up (earth on top) it would bridge either earth and neutral (no issue) or earth and live (leading to RCD cutting power) rather than neutral and live
The nearest TOC to do such a thing (11:12) is EMR which operate 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7 car units.
The half-hourly trains to Dartford via the Sidcup line currently exrend to Gravesend, and one's just turned up there, forming the next service out back to Charing Cross!!
I’m going to have to take a ride on those
There wasn't the obligatory beggar walking through like every other line that has this style of train. Word will get round no doubt
SWR operate 2 car (159/456), 3 car (159), 4 car (450/455) and 5 car (444/458) units and the new 701’s will be 5 & 10 car. They also operate combinations of 5,6,8 & 10 car multiple workings so I guess they come closest.
Glad I got to see 707001 before it gets taken over by Southeastern
I managed to see, and photograph, both 707001 and 707007 back in 2019
Having driven these (and the remaining units) with SWT and now SWR I can say most drivers will sadly miss these. And yes @Geoff Marshall the acceleration and deceleration is excellent. So easy to keep to time (everything else being good) in the 707. We sent the 707 to the Shepperton road specifically to troubleshoot punctuality with great success. Yes, shame to loose them for sure.
Ah, yes these so far may be the fastest to accelerate as a 100mph unit for DC. they are/were the fastest on the entire SWR network. Much faster than 450s and 444s since they also go 100mph for fair comparison
Also Ia curious question , I was on a class 458 that went to Wimbledon? Is that a result of the 707s being moved to southeastern or was that one 458 shepperton service a rarity?
Asking incase you might know as you are a driver.
and your now getting lovely Bombadier/Alstom Aventra units, well at some point once all the issues with them have been ironed out!
Why SWR decided than untried/untested Aventras were a good idea when most of the SWR/SWT electric stock is Siemens I don't know. I'm guessing SWR might have been "pushed" to go for the "British" option whereas in reality build quality/reliability should have been the deciding factor, even LU have gone Siemens when Bombadier could have had the order in the bag if they hadn't screwed LU over.
@@bb-3653 so all our EMU’s are AC (except the class 456). DC current is collected, but then goes through the TCU (traction converter unit), to around 415v ac then x4 ac motors (per DMC).
The 707 is 100 mph capable but was/is restricted to 90 mph on SWR.
Regarding 458’s on ‘other’ routes (Reading road being there main work now) this can be for a few reasons which I don’t get involved in really. But can be for crew knowledge/retention. More of a train crew planning question.
@@DesiroDriver so does that mean they are caster as a result of the 90mph restriction.. or is it a thing where if they were able go 100mph they would be just as fast as if they were 90mph restricted?
And I see i guess it I'd yet to be seen whether it is permanent for the 458s. Or if it is a common occurrence at the time that I went on it.
@@DesiroDriver that's an interesting thing you mentioned in regards to the voltage stuff.
I can't wait to see them in London Overground livery soon.
Three years ago I had a brief ride from Clapham Junction into Waterloo on a Class 707 when they were with South Western. I quite enjoyed the ride then. They look absolutely fantastic in their new role with South Eastern. Now I wonder if the Class 700 and 717 units will get the somewhat better seats these units have when they come up for overhaul. Fortunately for me, I only had the briefest ride on the ironboard seats from Three Bridges to Gatwick Airport the morning I flew out on my way home downunder via Vancouver BC. Great coverage as always Geoff.
The 700s and 717s have the same seats as these
@@agent_605 Take a closer look at the video. The seat pads on the refurbished Class 707 are NOT the Ironboard seats on Class 700s.
@@michaelformaini7053 They literally are though. They even use the same seat covers on these particular units.
iRoNiNg bOaRdS
Literally saw one at cannon street then saw the upload notification!
I can't think of any other TOCs that operate 2-6, but Southern come close:
2 on the Marshlink,
3 on the West/East Coastway,
4 on everything and
5 on the updated 377 metros.
South Western also 2-6. 2 carriage (158s,456,484), 3 carriage (159), 4 carriage (450,455, 458), 5 carriage (444, 701, some 458).
Got the same SE font for the station name at the beginning of the vid. Nice attention to detail.
About time they got new trains
Now I’m trying to find 707007 The Bond Train.
I believe it is at Grove Park at the moment.
The James Bond 707 007 is mainly kept in Grove Park depot sp look out for it in there
Merseyrail have 507007
@@jpbdude4223 is 007 on the wirral or northern?
@@IESpotter depends
When 707001 was delivered brand new to Clapham yard they stabled it and it was tagged that night nov 2016 002 had a pan fitted for a while
As a blindy, I’d much prefer sockets to be the right way up otherwise it would mess with my head!
I think this is the single most important reason to orientate sockets in the normal and expected way.
They came in for South West Trains, not South Western Railway...
They saw service on South West Trains for a few days before the franchise changed, before most of the units had even entered service
They look very smart, but I wish they had maybe put the SE light blue on the sides of the front. The splodge of yellow just around the headlights looks a bit odd as it doesn't really "line up" with the yellow panel in the middle. Especially as it's not even the same shade of yellow!
Think Chris is right at the end there. I cannot think of any other class of train, other than the class 395s, that are formed and built as 6 carriage units
Class 717 on Great Northern. Another Desiro City!
@@CPTrains Thanks for reminding me, even though Geoff did mention them. Think they're it (the 395's and the 717's)
I think Southern also runs 2,3,4,5 and 6 car trains too (2 car on the diesel lines, 3 car on the south coast trains, 4 and 6 cars to Southampton and Portsmouth and 5 car on south London metro)
They may be 6 carriage long trains, but they'd be formed of multiple units as none of the individual units are 6 carriages long
Sockets should be upside down, because then your cabel will point up! 😊
Glad our European sockets are reversable :)
French sockets aren't (at least when using an earthed plug, anyway).
@@K-o-R im pretty sure the bigger ones with earth are also reversable
@@nicolasblume1046 On a German socket, yes, there is an earth contact top and bottom. On a French socket there is a protruding earth pin at the top only.
Can definitely tell it's a Siemen's train. At 3:45 it sounds exactly like a ScotRail class 380.
They gave us this "new trains" line in Bristol when they cascaded 25-year-old Turbos to replace Sprinters a few years ago. At least these are only three or four years old.
Has it been mentioned yet? ScotRail run even more consists of units:
2 car - 156, 158
3 car - 156+153, 170, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385
4 car - 156, 158, 380, 385
5 car - 158+170
6 car - 156, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385
7 car - 380 (Sometimes 385)
8 car - 380, 385
"Upside down", yes. The earth pin should be at the bottom anyway.
Nice to see the upcoming franchise change discreetly swept under the carpet
This was filmed before that was announced
Oh my GOD do they still have the pin badges at Cannon Street perhaps? I need it in my life, for my backpack!
A nice looking train inside & out.
They look superb and I look forward to travelling on them. Remember that the 465 class have been in service now since 1991 in some cases, and even the 376 are some 17 years old now. The former look ancient by comparison and are a miserable place to spend a half hour commute. But with only 30 due in service I wonder how many will be on the Bexleyheath line for example
SWR run all formations, or can do it with 158/159 combinations that run anything from 2 up to 9 car formations. Some aren't regular formations but you do see them when unit faults occur.
Also Southern can run any formation from 2 to 12 car now with their 377s and 171s
3:00 I’m absolutely in favour of upside down sockets under seats. Plug things in in one smooth motion, wire goes up towards you and doesn’t bend.
Are you typically using a normal plug with a wire, or a charger with a USB port on it (as the latter can potentially go in one of 5 different directions!)?
What you seem to be saying makes good sense...if UK plugs are wired only one way with bottom exiting cord....is that the case?
@@neville132bbk Yes, it is in the wiring standard that, in a plug with a permanently attached cable, it must exit through the bottom.
While you do see plug in transformers with wires that come out any side, this is because the wires are low voltage and the "mains" wire never actually exited the "plug".
@@K-o-R Thank you, sir
@@neville132bbk yes, that’s the case. If only TH-cam comments enable people to post photos!
Nicely done
I copped onto your channel through Paul And Rebecca, I think. Very glad I found you.
I took a city beam train today.I took it from London Bridge to Petts Wood.
Please send this to Northern so they can see what a door vestibule grab pole looks like so they can fit them to 195s. On busy services if you can't get down the carriage or near the door you have to stand with nothing to grab on to. Not easy on rough track.
i just take southeastern from Cannon street to London bridge, during peak hours the trains were too crowded due to the seats taking so much space. it's a good thing new trains have more standing space so more people can fit into the train. only downside to me seems the lack of toilets. Only one thing for you Geoff to make the video perfect: as you got to London Bridge, last shot should have been southestern (plat 3) and thamelink (plat 4) 700 series next to each others :)
I’d like the socket to be correct.
Been looking forward to this.