"Let's bear in mind that when Cold Steel thrust into pig carcasses or whatever animal carcasses, they're generally not wearing clothes and stuff." The ambiguity on that "they" is priceless.
Fantastic. Best explanation of cut vs thrust I've seen so far. I find it interesting that a cutter like that would only be useful for thrusting at close range. A tapered arming sword is the opposite. Cutting would be done at close range. Tangential to this is the wounding effectiveness of a thrust from this weapon. It would leave a broader and shallower wound than a more acute weapon. Been thinking a lot about this and how it relates to the point on a previous vid about lethality vs stopping power of a thrust vs a cut. I'm thinking a broad blade has the stopping power. We don't see acute thrusting weapons until the proliferation of armor. Anyway, hoping you can comment on this in the future. Cheers.
The 1796 light cavalry saber is a masterpiece for what it's intended for. A cavalry saber. Used by troopers mounted on horses. Chopping more than thrusting. Thrusting mounted is dangerous. The blade often could be stuck in your opponent and pull you right off the horse if you try to hang on. Also. Most of your opponents in the Napoleonic wars were mostly not armoured, where chopping was more effective
Matt, I remember that once you did a short bit on the muscles a swordsman or someone similar could expect to have just from regular usage of their weapon and the inherent exercise involved in training and practice. Could you please do a follow up video on that? I'd love to learn more about the sorts of muscles and general fitness that a general soldier, knight, cavalryman, archer, and so one would have at any general point in history (your choice!). Thanks! I love your videos!
You can even stab someone with an 8mm blunt glassrod. A classmate demonstrated this fact nicely, when she stabbed a pigs heart while the biology teacher was out of the door...
+Rieman6000 They're really more or less the same. A lot of european sword enthusiasts refer to scimmitars (whether tulwar, shamshir or kilij) as sabres, because they are. Not only that but they also refer to previous european swords with that kind of blade as sabres, mainly messers, though I've seen some dudes call Falcions sabres too.
A lot of people seem to have this simplistic understanding that it is possible to have one weapon that is great for everything. You could explain in great detail why certain physical aspects makes a weapon excel in one task and fail in another and yet some people would dismiss you just because they saw one instance that wasn't based on the tactical context of how that weapon is used. Some people can't move past their bias.
So Matt, to summarize would you say that GENERALLY SPEAKING you can thrust with the 1796 light cavalry sabre HOWEVER, IN ACTUAL FACT it is not a great thrusting weapon in most (if not all) CONTEXTs?
One more thing, to reduce weight, blade of the curved swords tend to be longer in order to provide similar reach to straight blades, and to provide better cutting ability, for which curved swords are usually specialised, fable of the blade of the curved swords tend to be very tin and the flex caused by this fact takes much force from the thrust when you try to stab through resistive materials.
In earlier videos, you mentioned that officers swords were private purchases. Might an officer be able to buy a sword with a less pronounced curve, if said officer had a bit of money to spend and felt so inclined?
+TheSteelEcho I've seen some officers 1796s with what appeared to be the same blade curve, but the hilt/grip is canted forward so that the point is a bit more in line. Also a few with added shell guards for extra hand protection.
What's you opinion about the 19 century Scottish basket hitled swords used by highlanders compared to infantry officers saber of the time such as the 1845 pattern ?
Ahhh... As one who asked on the last video about this, I say, "thank you, sir" and politely bow. The point being offline during the straight thrust due to the blade curve makes an embarrassing amount of sense.
Arcsinner It's true too. That's me from Halloween two years ago; I just put on a bunch of yellow body paint and got dressed with clothes from my closet... Easiest. Halloween. Ever.
curved swords were used on cavalry units by catching enemy on the curve, like jousting, and basically push cutting as you go in, and draw cutting as you go out . This is easy and simple enough to train troops to use effectively in stressful situations, prevents sword sticking to enemy, and provides good damage. Hacking and slashing was also used of course when in melee, but that is not ideal situation for cavalry :)
I have a 1796 blade that is mounted on a brass gilt and ivory hilt with a half cage hand guard. Tooled leather scabbard, looks like a civilian mod or perhaps Indian army officers private sword. It's got a very Indian style pommel. Been in the family for ever , if I took some photos, Matt , could you give me your opinion?
It's a _cavalry_ sabre. In a lunge the curve of the blade assists the point in making purchase and the tendency of the hilt to pull away from the spine aids in the cut, as well as helping avoid over-penetration that can result in the blade being ripped from your hand as you pass through the line. In a sabre charge the tip acts more like an ulu than a stiletto. Sure, the geometry may be less suited for skewering your opponent in a fencing duel, but on horseback a thrust is more than capable of inflicting lethal injury, especially against infantry. The significant difference is that the momentum of your horse is what delivers the energy for the slice, rather than the swinging of your arm. Keeping the blade in line is more dependent upon pulling the hilt toward your body rather than trying to push it towards your opponent. It relies on a completely different set of muscles, and in the former case it's more ergonomic with the hand in tierce. I would argue, as far as thrusting is concerned, that this design is a flaw of over-specialization rather than being completely unsuited for the task. It's an adequate _thrusting_ weapon for mounted techniques, it's just not an efficient _piercing_ weapon, especially on foot. As firearm technology and availability improved, thus being more likely to have your horse shot from under you, this would have become increasingly relevant on the battlefield. Like all aspects of the sword, it's a trade-off.
The same thing can be said about other curved swords such as Shamshir , Kilij and Tulwar .Though you can thrust with them they are generally bad at "giving point" . Matt is it true that Indians and Asians in general did not know how to parry a thrust ?
+Rami sabreur I highly doubt it. In my experience, a baseline 'thrust' is actually rather easy to parry in the grand scheme of things - it's what you do simultaneously that makes it harder to deal with. If it was anything, I would say perhaps the eastern martial traditions might have struggled with the lunge-focused nature of later-century western martial arts.
Where she have middle of heaviness? Looking like one for rather long cuts, but how about using by infrantry. What do You think about rising maneuvering by adding ring for thumb, like in huzar sabres
I thought your points (heh heh...) were quite obvious. I mean, just like you said, you *can* thrust anything into anything. Whether it does any damage, is another thing. Besides, even if you can do something doesn't mean you should do something. ;) But, once again a great video, Matt! Once I get my house done, I´ll be sure to start supporting you via Patreon. I think you've more than earned it.
+Noah Weisbrod someone uses their common sense there! nice! wish i'd see that more often in people. that is exactly how i imagine using such a curved sword, and on horseback it has been known to remove heads with great ease. i think he even made a separate video about how a thrust like movement with such a curved blade can be used in a cavalry charge.
What are the thrusting capabilities of blades that curve outwards and then back in relatively evenly, so the point is straight in front of the grip even while the blade curves behind it. I've seen some katanas, messers and sabers that curve in this way and they look like they would avoid pivoting on the thrust as much. Would that be the case?
Just as a point of interest: Is there a lot of utilization of the 'false edge' in saber fencing? I've watched a few competition videos and nobody seems to make any cuts with it.
I noticed an exception to the rule on point placement for cuts -- the gladius. Mine cuts best right where the flat parallel edges transition to the slanted tip. Is this the only sword that does that?
I can see one situation where the curve thrust could be useful, and that is if you are fighting some with a spear and slip past the point and your close in with a hand on the spear.
I have a question that I can't really find the answer to, and that is why have we stopped putting guards on daggers and knives, I know trench knives used to have knuckle guards but wouldn't guards still be useful.
Would those short ranged, nonlinear thrusts be useful in a sword and shield context? I know it's probably not something the designers had in mind for this particular blade, but I can't help wondering if heavily curved swords like the tulwar might have been used to thrust around shields. Also, how pheasible are imbroccata style thrusts with a curved blade? I'm guessing the damage would be huge provided there was enough penetration, but can you get enough given the issues you raised?
Hi matt. I don't know another way to contact you so I ask here. would you mind watching this and doing a commentary with your thoughts in reference to hema. I'd be interested in your thoughts. thanks in advance James
Does the profile of the blade allow for some kind of push cut to the head or neck of an opponent? Clearly I would imagine this is not as versatile or as definitive as poking a hole in the head, neck or chest. But is it an effective way to threaten? And in a more general view point, is there any significant difference between curved and strait blades in the bind? Please forgive my ignorance of weapon use.
I know your mostly a sword guy, but I'd love to see something on the difference between various types of maces. I was looking for videos on Turkish maces because they have an odd water tower shape to them and couldn't find much. Thanks.
Question about thrusting at angles: wouldn't you agree that they do make sense, especially when the sabre is used along with a shield or buckler? I would further assume that the curvature makes it harder to predict where the point impacts and a small hand movement could change it quickly.
+edi yes exactly what i was thinking....maybe it does nt make much sense in that particular historical era the 1796 sabre was used in..but i have heard that when shields were used a curved blade was a lot more feared than a straight one for the potential of it to sneak around the shield
wouldn't another advantage of that point and the pronounced curve be that you could do a "drawing cut thrust" on horseback. I'm talking about the technique you mentioned in one of your tulwar videos in which you put the furthest part of your edge in line with the target and then follow with the rest of your edge. Couldn't a technique like that at least partially take the role of thrusts from horseback?
The Russian 1796 Hussar Regulations have instructions for 'giving point' in a charge in the same fashion as the heavy cavalry, but with a curved sabre almost identical to the British light cavalry sabre. I wonder if the British also insisted on such tactics (in drill, if not in practice), despite the weapon's obvious disadvantages on that area. Not only is the point less than ideal for a galloping thrust, but the guard covers less of the face than the heavy cav.'s basket hilt.
What about lindybeige's idea of twisting the sword as you thrust to get around your opponents guard is that an effective technique ?( as shown in his video a point about sabres)
Matt, while I wholeheartedly agree that this is a poor sparring sword, it is in fact a CAVALRY sword, and when charging on a fast-moving horse with the sword extended to the right side it brings the point in line with your opponent who is perhaps almost a yard away from you, and is in this respect a GOOD thrusting sword when you have the speed and weight of the horse behind (beneath ?) you. When your cavalryman is unhorsed it is quite a different matter, as you have rightly explained!
Matt: The Germans shortened theirs to 89 cm and ground the point symmetrically This put the point in line with the thumb on top of the guard backstrap. Of course, a compromise but it does enable the Trooper or Gunner to thrust if necessary....
Cavalry swords are designed for, yes indeed, cavalry usage. You typically don't want to thrust on horseback, that'll just put unnecessary force and stoppage into your movement. Cavalry weaponry is typically curved like that to allow the rider to slice through people on foot doing the most damage for the least resistance. Slicing resists less than stabbing or hacking. Of course its not going to be designed for stabbing if it's a cavalry sword. The folks who point out the stabbing thing and those like em seem to fail to see context in the weapon's design.
+Thorulf Scottson Some of the most successful cavalry swords of history have been straight thrusting swords. Also, lances are of course thrusting cavalry weapons.
What are the reasons that speak in favour or against restauring a piece like this (a nice one indeed) into perfect condition or even beyond, I mean removing all dark spots on the blade, maybe going for a mirror polish, giving the brass an effort that might outshine the sun etc.
The dark spots are characteristics it's gained over its life, I don't collect swords, but if I did I really don't use a practical application for one, and would keep it as close to its current condition as possible outside of a spray down with WD-40 and wiping it with a paper towel.
+zürihegel Some people do it, but depending on the depth of the rust/patina you have to remember that polishing = removing blade material. I clean swords, but I don't generally like to remove any notable amount of material from them just to make them shiny.
I'm convinced as to the general argument, but I have question about the assertion that you can't deliver a riposte after a quarte parry. All you have to do is rotate your hand to seconde and aim for the face. The 1796 sabre may not have much of a point, but if it arrives at the opponent's eyesor teeth, it will be sufficient.
Could you not use the curve slightly to your advantage when fighting on foot? I.e. you could use the curve to get around an enemy's guard and use the point to at least hurt them?
anyone know where I can get 18 century sabers similar to the ones hussars or french heavy cavalry use that are of good quality I mean like cold steel is nice but I would like to know if there are any better options
+sama-kun Matt´s "HOWEVER!" has basically become a thu´um by now. "HAO - EH - VAH!" In the dragons language, it means: "This is bullshit! Let me correct you."
what about lindybeige's vid about thrusting and twisting the sword around someones guard ? Or if you swing and are parried and then you twist the sword to thrust into his face?
+Cold Steel Fanboy Katana Lover Lindybeige lives in a fantasy world of his own creation, where the half-arsed shit he makes up as he goes along makes some kind of sense.
+Pål Deisz Haha, I would but sadly my current budget does not stretch to sword acquiring. Good luck in getting in there quickly when it goes up on his site!
I got stung bad by a bunch of dudes who took offense by the royal armouries, which said you can't thrust with those swords, and I suggested that maybe the experts of museum actually knew what they were doing.
+edi There is a little bit of thrusting in Katana use, but not a lot. mainly it's aimed at very soft places like the throat for instance. But there really isn't a huge amount of point work done with a Katana. Although tbh, most Katanas are not quite as curved as the 1796 sword. As for the design of the tip, that depends a fair bit on the period they were made in / who made them / the preferences of the person who it was made for. Plus, do not forget that not all Japanese swords were Katanas. But let's not get into that - it get's rather complicated, lol.
+edi I'm no expert on the Japanese source material, but I've seen some displays of kenjutsu, and what I will say is this. You can, and it is taught, but like in sabre fencing - you tend to cut more than thrust. I have some personal ideas, but nothing really grounded in experience. What I would say is that I find that the thrusts have to be very deliberate and from 'strong' positions. I've seen a position used similar to Ochs, but not a lot else. I think at the relatively close distance in which you'd be using the katana, it'd be in your best interest to cover your defensive lines with cuts - which suits the blade geometry of the katana - but aware that you could potentially give a strong thrust if you can generate the energy while maintaining safety.
Dominator046 You are correct about the thrusts, they do tend to be delivered deliberately and with force from a strong position. They are certainly nothing like the fast thrusts of a Rapier or Small Sword for instance. In fact, if you think of the Katana as a curved Longsword, you won't be too far wrong ( although there are differences other than blade shape of course ).
It transmits energy fine on soft tissue my friend. The way it wants to move is the direction of the cutting edge so it will just cut its way into the target..Much different if your trying to pierce armor of course. But for people to say "you cant thrust with it" is just ridiculous. Try a lunge with this blade on soft tissue and check the results..If it was that big of an issue I dont think it would be as popular as it was. This blade thrusts fine mate. cheers
thought you might like to see the video (if you haven't already) of "SWORD FIGHT BREAKS OUT AT SIKH TEMPLE" No thrusting there (not that that means anything in relation to this video and historical ma)
Hey Matt, I just got back from a trip to jolly old England and an M1833 Italian horse artillery saber followed me home. Only thing I can find on it seems to be that it was made by various German states for various Italian states. Can you recommend a source that might have something about this thing in it?
Can you make a video about how to distinguish between real antique swords and fake modern replicas? There are a lot of these on the market, with fake chemically applied patina and sometimes even fake authenticity documents. A few tips about what to look for at a sword marketed as an antique would be very useful.
I get a little contentious when I see people say a weapon shouldn't be used for some purpose when in reality even a fork is over engineered to stab into people. I think it's a matter of circumstance. If you want to define "stabbing weapon" in relation to another weapon, or a type of armor, you can draw up distinctions, but if you want to define "stabbing weapon" in relation to it's ability to kill a man, anything that can punch a whole in someone, knife, fork, bone, is a stabbing weapon.
This is an odd question but what would be a good self defense weapon for a small person (Not a little person) in the late medieval or early Renaissance time?
A weapon that is becoming evermore popular in anime is the scythe. I was curious if the scythe was actually used as a weapon of war or if it was just a tool for farming grain. What do you think?
+Wavewraith1 The Polish were well known for reforging scythes and putting them on straight handles as polearms... A scythe blade is a great cutter but the handle is all wrong for fighting with so they had to change them a bit.
Lindybeige has a couple of videos on this but the short answer seems to be no. The blades are too fragile and the haft's too awkward to be much use. Although scythes are often shown in TV and movies with straight hafts, and thicker blades that have been rotated 90 degrees so the edge faces backwards. It's still impractical since you are pointless giving up reach but probably less so than historical scythes.
Anime loves the strange and weird. In anime they use scythes in the normal wheat cutting manner and somehow that makes it an amazing weapon, because anime. Which is silly- you'd have to get your target inside the curve of your cutting arc and use massive force to wound, negating all the advantages of having a polearm. "War scythes" were completely different, having the blade inline with the handle. I can't think they'd be very good weapons even in that configuration- a scythe blade isn't as sturdy as a proper halbard or partisan.
I always found it odd that they would basically be attacking with the blunt outer-edge of the scythe rather than the inside. I agree, it's not a very effective weapon at all. Now, if the blade were rotated 45 degrees up exposing the blade more it would be far more effective. It would still be slow and next to impossible to land a blow, but any hit that lands could like cut someone in half (maybe not literally, but still). Basically similar to the oversized executioner's axe you see in movies.
Out of curiosity, if you land a blow with a large weapon like that, would the blade roll or rotate upon impact? I just see that it would be difficult to keep the cutting edge straight when swinging. Also it might hit the target, bite in a bit, but at the same time begin to rotate and the momentum continue to push the blade into a much greater turn. This could work with axes or hammers too. I'm not sure if the way I phrased it is hard to understand, but i hope you do. Basically, would the weapon cause decreased damage because of this kind of rotation?
Did Cold Steel say it was a extremely good thrusting weapon or did they just show you could do it with that implement, Mr. Matt Easton you may know weapons but I doubt you can teach mush of any thing to the guys at Cold Steel, ..with all do respect Power Play 4 Real.
"Let's bear in mind that when Cold Steel thrust into pig carcasses or whatever animal carcasses, they're generally not wearing clothes and stuff."
The ambiguity on that "they" is priceless.
+HebaruSan Oh, the horror. The horror!
+Pål Deisz I might need a lobotomy if I ever see Lynn Thompson nude.
+Pål Deisz I think you mean "Tha horra. Tha horra."
+HebaruSan David Cameron approves.
+HebaruSan Well, you don't want pig blood all over your trousers.
"However!" - Matt Easton
Fantastic. Best explanation of cut vs thrust I've seen so far.
I find it interesting that a cutter like that would only be useful for thrusting at close range. A tapered arming sword is the opposite. Cutting would be done at close range.
Tangential to this is the wounding effectiveness of a thrust from this weapon. It would leave a broader and shallower wound than a more acute weapon. Been thinking a lot about this and how it relates to the point on a previous vid about lethality vs stopping power of a thrust vs a cut.
I'm thinking a broad blade has the stopping power. We don't see acute thrusting weapons until the proliferation of armor. Anyway, hoping you can comment on this in the future. Cheers.
"Will it thrust?" would be a great series. I'd watch every episode.
You should really do a comparison between all of your sabers, so we can see the differences more clearly.
A great concise discussion on the 1796 sabre on its cutting and thrusting abilities (or in the case of the latter, lack there off).
The 1796 light cavalry saber is a masterpiece for what it's intended for. A cavalry saber. Used by troopers mounted on horses. Chopping more than thrusting. Thrusting mounted is dangerous. The blade often could be stuck in your opponent and pull you right off the horse if you try to hang on. Also. Most of your opponents in the Napoleonic wars were mostly not armoured, where chopping was more effective
Matt,
I remember that once you did a short bit on the muscles a swordsman or someone similar could expect to have just from regular usage of their weapon and the inherent exercise involved in training and practice.
Could you please do a follow up video on that? I'd love to learn more about the sorts of muscles and general fitness that a general soldier, knight, cavalryman, archer, and so one would have at any general point in history (your choice!).
Thanks! I love your videos!
I come to this channel for the points about penetrations.
Full anal
You can even stab someone with an 8mm blunt glassrod. A classmate demonstrated this fact nicely, when she stabbed a pigs heart while the biology teacher was out of the door...
Reminds me of a Scimitar. Really cool look to it
+Rieman6000 They're really more or less the same. A lot of european sword enthusiasts refer to scimmitars (whether tulwar, shamshir or kilij) as sabres, because they are. Not only that but they also refer to previous european swords with that kind of blade as sabres, mainly messers, though I've seen some dudes call Falcions sabres too.
A lot of people seem to have this simplistic understanding that it is possible to have one weapon that is great for everything. You could explain in great detail why certain physical aspects makes a weapon excel in one task and fail in another and yet some people would dismiss you just because they saw one instance that wasn't based on the tactical context of how that weapon is used. Some people can't move past their bias.
8:05 - It's a greatsword? I thought it was a sabre!
:P
What he meant is that it's of good quality like Asian blades are.
+Rakka of Glie asian blades? ... why just asian......?..i hope your not pointing out katana becuase its overrated and is not the best whatsoever
+Jean Bison Yea, it's good if you only have shitty metal and no one uses metal armor. So it was good for medieval Japan. And that's it.
+Discitus I prefer light()sabres
So Matt, to summarize would you say that GENERALLY SPEAKING you can thrust with the 1796 light cavalry sabre HOWEVER, IN ACTUAL FACT it is not a great thrusting weapon in most (if not all) CONTEXTs?
"There are many reasons and I'm covering them here"...Well that makes a rare change to saying it'll be done later. Nice video.
One more thing, to reduce weight, blade of the curved swords tend to be longer in order to provide similar reach to straight blades, and to provide better cutting ability, for which curved swords are usually specialised, fable of the blade of the curved swords tend to be very tin and the flex caused by this fact takes much force from the thrust when you try to stab through resistive materials.
Congrats on getting 100,000 Subs Matt!
In earlier videos, you mentioned that officers swords were private purchases. Might an officer be able to buy a sword with a less pronounced curve, if said officer had a bit of money to spend and felt so inclined?
+TheSteelEcho Yes.
+TheSteelEcho I've seen some officers 1796s with what appeared to be the same blade curve, but the hilt/grip is canted forward so that the point is a bit more in line. Also a few with added shell guards for extra hand protection.
good video looking forward to your video on the 1853 heavy cavalry sword
Well done as always, Matt! Very interesting video! :)
What's you opinion about the 19 century Scottish basket hitled swords used by highlanders compared to infantry officers saber of the time such as the 1845 pattern ?
Ahhh... As one who asked on the last video about this, I say, "thank you, sir" and politely bow. The point being offline during the straight thrust due to the blade curve makes an embarrassing amount of sense.
+L.D. Johnson awesome profil pic!
Arcsinner It's true too. That's me from Halloween two years ago; I just put on a bunch of yellow body paint and got dressed with clothes from my closet...
Easiest. Halloween. Ever.
"Can it thrust?" That's what she said.
+Rad Bromance Indeed she did. So I gave her a few pointers on the subject!
curved swords were used on cavalry units by catching enemy on the curve, like jousting, and basically push cutting as you go in, and draw cutting as you go out . This is easy and simple enough to train troops to use effectively in stressful situations, prevents sword sticking to enemy, and provides good damage. Hacking and slashing was also used of course when in melee, but that is not ideal situation for cavalry :)
I have a 1796 blade that is mounted on a brass gilt and ivory hilt with a half cage hand guard. Tooled leather scabbard, looks like a civilian mod or perhaps Indian army officers private sword. It's got a very Indian style pommel. Been in the family for ever , if I took some photos, Matt , could you give me your opinion?
You can also thrust with a butterknife, but it's not exactly the ideal weapon for it.
Matt, you get better with more vids you do
It's a _cavalry_ sabre. In a lunge the curve of the blade assists the point in making purchase and the tendency of the hilt to pull away from the spine aids in the cut, as well as helping avoid over-penetration that can result in the blade being ripped from your hand as you pass through the line. In a sabre charge the tip acts more like an ulu than a stiletto. Sure, the geometry may be less suited for skewering your opponent in a fencing duel, but on horseback a thrust is more than capable of inflicting lethal injury, especially against infantry. The significant difference is that the momentum of your horse is what delivers the energy for the slice, rather than the swinging of your arm. Keeping the blade in line is more dependent upon pulling the hilt toward your body rather than trying to push it towards your opponent. It relies on a completely different set of muscles, and in the former case it's more ergonomic with the hand in tierce. I would argue, as far as thrusting is concerned, that this design is a flaw of over-specialization rather than being completely unsuited for the task. It's an adequate _thrusting_ weapon for mounted techniques, it's just not an efficient _piercing_ weapon, especially on foot. As firearm technology and availability improved, thus being more likely to have your horse shot from under you, this would have become increasingly relevant on the battlefield. Like all aspects of the sword, it's a trade-off.
The same thing can be said about other curved swords such as Shamshir , Kilij and Tulwar .Though you can thrust with them they are generally bad at "giving point" .
Matt is it true that Indians and Asians in general did not know how to parry a thrust ?
+Rami sabreur
I highly doubt it. In my experience, a baseline 'thrust' is actually rather easy to parry in the grand scheme of things - it's what you do simultaneously that makes it harder to deal with. If it was anything, I would say perhaps the eastern martial traditions might have struggled with the lunge-focused nature of later-century western martial arts.
Where she have middle of heaviness? Looking like one for rather long cuts, but how about using by infrantry. What do You think about rising maneuvering by adding ring for thumb, like in huzar sabres
I thought your points (heh heh...) were quite obvious.
I mean, just like you said, you *can* thrust anything into anything.
Whether it does any damage, is another thing.
Besides, even if you can do something doesn't mean you should do something. ;)
But, once again a great video, Matt!
Once I get my house done, I´ll be sure to start supporting you via Patreon. I think you've more than earned it.
Given the interesting discussion on cutting and thrusting with such a curved blade, I'd be interested to see something similar for the Falcata.
Damn you Matt, why do you have to be sooo Logical. Great video as always.
Would an attempt at a thrust with one of these end up being a push-cut?
+Noah Weisbrod
someone uses their common sense there! nice! wish i'd see that more often in people.
that is exactly how i imagine using such a curved sword, and on horseback it has been known to remove heads with great ease. i think he even made a separate video about how a thrust like movement with such a curved blade can be used in a cavalry charge.
A dead pig doesn't fight back. That changes everything.
+TheBaconWizard it also usually has a hollow carcass (it'd be pretty gross to use a pig carcass which hasn't been gutted).
+TheBaconWizard I was just going to say, dead pigs don't thrust back. Lynn Thompson on the other hand does. Think about it.
What are the thrusting capabilities of blades that curve outwards and then back in relatively evenly, so the point is straight in front of the grip even while the blade curves behind it. I've seen some katanas, messers and sabers that curve in this way and they look like they would avoid pivoting on the thrust as much. Would that be the case?
Just as a point of interest: Is there a lot of utilization of the 'false edge' in saber fencing? I've watched a few competition videos and nobody seems to make any cuts with it.
I noticed an exception to the rule on point placement for cuts -- the gladius. Mine cuts best right where the flat parallel edges transition to the slanted tip. Is this the only sword that does that?
I can see one situation where the curve thrust could be useful, and that is if you are fighting some with a spear and slip past the point and your close in with a hand on the spear.
I have a question that I can't really find the answer to, and that is why have we stopped putting guards on daggers and knives, I know trench knives used to have knuckle guards but wouldn't guards still be useful.
Would those short ranged, nonlinear thrusts be useful in a sword and shield context? I know it's probably not something the designers had in mind for this particular blade, but I can't help wondering if heavily curved swords like the tulwar might have been used to thrust around shields. Also, how pheasible are imbroccata style thrusts with a curved blade? I'm guessing the damage would be huge provided there was enough penetration, but can you get enough given the issues you raised?
Hi matt. I don't know another way to contact you so I ask here. would you mind watching this and doing a commentary with your thoughts in reference to hema. I'd be interested in your thoughts.
thanks in advance
James
Does the profile of the blade allow for some kind of push cut to the head or neck of an opponent? Clearly I would imagine this is not as versatile or as definitive as poking a hole in the head, neck or chest. But is it an effective way to threaten? And in a more general view point, is there any significant difference between curved and strait blades in the bind? Please forgive my ignorance of weapon use.
I know your mostly a sword guy, but I'd love to see something on the difference between various types of maces. I was looking for videos on Turkish maces because they have an odd water tower shape to them and couldn't find much. Thanks.
Question about thrusting at angles: wouldn't you agree that they do make sense, especially when the sabre is used along with a shield or buckler? I would further assume that the curvature makes it harder to predict where the point impacts and a small hand movement could change it quickly.
+edi yes exactly what i was thinking....maybe it does nt make much sense in that particular historical era the 1796 sabre was used in..but i have heard that when shields were used a curved blade was a lot more feared than a straight one for the potential of it to sneak around the shield
wouldn't another advantage of that point and the pronounced curve be that you could do a "drawing cut thrust" on horseback. I'm talking about the technique you mentioned in one of your tulwar videos in which you put the furthest part of your edge in line with the target and then follow with the rest of your edge. Couldn't a technique like that at least partially take the role of thrusts from horseback?
The Russian 1796 Hussar Regulations have instructions for 'giving point' in a charge in the same fashion as the heavy cavalry, but with a curved sabre almost identical to the British light cavalry sabre. I wonder if the British also insisted on such tactics (in drill, if not in practice), despite the weapon's obvious disadvantages on that area. Not only is the point less than ideal for a galloping thrust, but the guard covers less of the face than the heavy cav.'s basket hilt.
What about lindybeige's idea of twisting the sword as you thrust to get around your opponents guard is that an effective technique ?( as shown in his video a point about sabres)
Matt, while I wholeheartedly agree that this is a poor sparring sword, it is in fact a CAVALRY sword, and when charging on a fast-moving horse with the sword extended to the right side it brings the point in line with your opponent who is perhaps almost a yard away from you, and is in this respect a GOOD thrusting sword when you have the speed and weight of the horse behind (beneath ?) you. When your cavalryman is unhorsed it is quite a different matter, as you have rightly explained!
I find it interesting how deep the curve is compared to the French sabers. Did either side have an advantage with their different sword designs?
l
Love my
1796
It just takes awhile too adjust thrust but I just dig the slash and the feel of it.
I do dig its back cut though ,its dig and grabs good making a great fake and deep cut
Matt: The Germans shortened theirs to 89 cm and ground the point symmetrically This put the point in line with the thumb on top of the guard backstrap. Of course, a compromise but it does enable the Trooper or Gunner to thrust if necessary....
cold steel version has a thick cross section at the false edge. its nearly 3mm. thats probably why people think it thrust well.
Cavalry swords are designed for, yes indeed, cavalry usage. You typically don't want to thrust on horseback, that'll just put unnecessary force and stoppage into your movement. Cavalry weaponry is typically curved like that to allow the rider to slice through people on foot doing the most damage for the least resistance.
Slicing resists less than stabbing or hacking. Of course its not going to be designed for stabbing if it's a cavalry sword.
The folks who point out the stabbing thing and those like em seem to fail to see context in the weapon's design.
+Thorulf Scottson Some of the most successful cavalry swords of history have been straight thrusting swords. Also, lances are of course thrusting cavalry weapons.
scholagladiatoria True enough.
+Thorulf Scottson 1908
Noah Weisbrod Come again?
Thorulf Scottson The 1908 British Cavalry sword
Very informative, thanks.
Since you mentioned Cold Steel, do you have an opinion on their saber/cutlass video?
What are the reasons that speak in favour or against restauring a piece like this (a nice one indeed) into perfect condition or even beyond, I mean removing all dark spots on the blade, maybe going for a mirror polish, giving the brass an effort that might outshine the sun etc.
The dark spots are characteristics it's gained over its life, I don't collect swords, but if I did I really don't use a practical application for one, and would keep it as close to its current condition as possible outside of a spray down with WD-40 and wiping it with a paper towel.
+zürihegel Some people do it, but depending on the depth of the rust/patina you have to remember that polishing = removing blade material. I clean swords, but I don't generally like to remove any notable amount of material from them just to make them shiny.
+zürihegel Restoring. Restauring swords is what happens in Cold Steel videos.
Choosing the right tool for the job.
I sense a part two coming...this is the Normans all over again
Did you hear about those warriors from hammerfell?
+Gwaether Bloom
Yeah they use curved swords...Curved! Swords!
+Eliot Metherell :-D
When taking penetration and thrusts into consideration, we must weigh in the yaw factor, curvature, thickness of tip, and length of your weapon.
I'm convinced as to the general argument, but I have question about the assertion that you can't deliver a riposte after a quarte parry. All you have to do is rotate your hand to seconde and aim for the face. The 1796 sabre may not have much of a point, but if it arrives at the opponent's eyesor teeth, it will be sufficient.
Would a clip point have been an improvement?
Could you not use the curve slightly to your advantage when fighting on foot? I.e. you could use the curve to get around an enemy's guard and use the point to at least hurt them?
Yep
Scholagladiatoria skipping talking about hand-guards and hand protection? Well, that fucks up my usual drinking game.
It's all about the moment of rotation.
The title "can it thrust?" reminded me of the TH-cam series, "Will it Blend?"
anyone know where I can get 18 century sabers similar to the ones hussars or french heavy cavalry use that are of good quality I mean like cold steel is nice but I would like to know if there are any better options
Are you going to do more videos on polearms at some point?
thekangarooboxer I've seen them. I would like to see more though.
Are we aware of any real world examples of the 1796 sabre coming up against more dedicated thrusting swords ? If so, what were the results ?
...Yes you can, but HOWEVER!...
+sama-kun CONTEXT !!!
+sama-kun Matt´s "HOWEVER!" has basically become a thu´um by now.
"HAO - EH - VAH!"
In the dragons language, it means: "This is bullshit! Let me correct you."
what about lindybeige's vid about thrusting and twisting the sword around someones guard ? Or if you swing and are parried and then you twist the sword to thrust into his face?
+Cold Steel Fanboy Katana Lover
Lindybeige lives in a fantasy world of his own creation, where the half-arsed shit he makes up as he goes along makes some kind of sense.
Would love to have a 1796 light cavalry sabre to play with so I can get a feel for the differences it makes to thrusts & so forth. One day!
+BlueNeonBeasty I think this one is coming for sale on his website...
Try to beat me to it! ;-)
+Pål Deisz Haha, I would but sadly my current budget does not stretch to sword acquiring. Good luck in getting in there quickly when it goes up on his site!
Lotta sass in this video. Very informative sass. xD
I got stung bad by a bunch of dudes who took offense by the royal armouries, which said you can't thrust with those swords, and I suggested that maybe the experts of museum actually knew what they were doing.
Can anyone tell me to what extent Katana were used for thrusting? Some have very blunt points others are almost awl-shaped.
+edi There is a little bit of thrusting in Katana use, but not a lot. mainly it's aimed at very soft places like the throat for instance. But there really isn't a huge amount of point work done with a Katana. Although tbh, most Katanas are not quite as curved as the 1796 sword. As for the design of the tip, that depends a fair bit on the period they were made in / who made them / the preferences of the person who it was made for. Plus, do not forget that not all Japanese swords were Katanas. But let's not get into that - it get's rather complicated, lol.
+edi
I'm no expert on the Japanese source material, but I've seen some displays of kenjutsu, and what I will say is this.
You can, and it is taught, but like in sabre fencing - you tend to cut more than thrust. I have some personal ideas, but nothing really grounded in experience. What I would say is that I find that the thrusts have to be very deliberate and from 'strong' positions. I've seen a position used similar to Ochs, but not a lot else. I think at the relatively close distance in which you'd be using the katana, it'd be in your best interest to cover your defensive lines with cuts - which suits the blade geometry of the katana - but aware that you could potentially give a strong thrust if you can generate the energy while maintaining safety.
Dominator046
You are correct about the thrusts, they do tend to be delivered deliberately and with force from a strong position. They are certainly nothing like the fast thrusts of a Rapier or Small Sword for instance. In fact, if you think of the Katana as a curved Longsword, you won't be too far wrong ( although there are differences other than blade shape of course ).
It transmits energy fine on soft tissue my friend. The way it wants to move is the direction of the cutting edge so it will just cut its way into the target..Much different if your trying to pierce armor of course. But for people to say "you cant thrust with it" is just ridiculous. Try a lunge with this blade on soft tissue and check the results..If it was that big of an issue I dont think it would be as popular as it was. This blade thrusts fine mate. cheers
But not nearly as well as a straight weapon.
+Ozoneocean MJM fair enough
thought you might like to see the video (if you haven't already) of "SWORD FIGHT BREAKS OUT AT SIKH TEMPLE"
No thrusting there (not that that means anything in relation to this video and historical ma)
Hey Matt, I just got back from a trip to jolly old England and an M1833 Italian horse artillery saber followed me home. Only thing I can find on it seems to be that it was made by various German states for various Italian states. Can you recommend a source that might have something about this thing in it?
Can you make a video about how to distinguish between real antique swords and fake modern replicas? There are a lot of these on the market, with fake chemically applied patina and sometimes even fake authenticity documents. A few tips about what to look for at a sword marketed as an antique would be very useful.
Matt you mentioned that historically the sword was used against winter greatcoats. How would a cutting sword have fared in that context?
+Damien T
don't use spadroons, that's for sure...
Question, how light is the model you're holding?
I get a little contentious when I see people say a weapon shouldn't be used for some purpose when in reality even a fork is over engineered to stab into people. I think it's a matter of circumstance. If you want to define "stabbing weapon" in relation to another weapon, or a type of armor, you can draw up distinctions, but if you want to define "stabbing weapon" in relation to it's ability to kill a man, anything that can punch a whole in someone, knife, fork, bone, is a stabbing weapon.
Out of curiosity, which type or model of sabre do you prefer?
This is an odd question but what would be a good self defense weapon for a small person (Not a little person) in the late medieval or early Renaissance time?
+Gallowglass The best weapon for you- is the one you practice the most with.
Tydyd1 I didn't say it was for me. Just something I was thinking about.
Stupid Question: Does a thrust HAVE to lead with the point? Or is there front edge thrusting where you sort of slice thrust?
That is called a push cut
Do the butchered pigs they use in Cold Steel videos even have skin on them?
You got any scimitars or yatagans?
we need more test on fabric + meat x)
Wow, this was like Lloyd Rants but with less hair and more context:)
+Daniel Taylor Haha, with a lot less hair!
there is always the ride by head slice
A weapon that is becoming evermore popular in anime is the scythe. I was curious if the scythe was actually used as a weapon of war or if it was just a tool for farming grain. What do you think?
+Wavewraith1 The Polish were well known for reforging scythes and putting them on straight handles as polearms... A scythe blade is a great cutter but the handle is all wrong for fighting with so they had to change them a bit.
Lindybeige has a couple of videos on this but the short answer seems to be no. The blades are too fragile and the haft's too awkward to be much use. Although scythes are often shown in TV and movies with straight hafts, and thicker blades that have been rotated 90 degrees so the edge faces backwards. It's still impractical since you are pointless giving up reach but probably less so than historical scythes.
Anime loves the strange and weird. In anime they use scythes in the normal wheat cutting manner and somehow that makes it an amazing weapon, because anime. Which is silly- you'd have to get your target inside the curve of your cutting arc and use massive force to wound, negating all the advantages of having a polearm.
"War scythes" were completely different, having the blade inline with the handle. I can't think they'd be very good weapons even in that configuration- a scythe blade isn't as sturdy as a proper halbard or partisan.
I always found it odd that they would basically be attacking with the blunt outer-edge of the scythe rather than the inside. I agree, it's not a very effective weapon at all. Now, if the blade were rotated 45 degrees up exposing the blade more it would be far more effective. It would still be slow and next to impossible to land a blow, but any hit that lands could like cut someone in half (maybe not literally, but still). Basically similar to the oversized executioner's axe you see in movies.
Out of curiosity, if you land a blow with a large weapon like that, would the blade roll or rotate upon impact? I just see that it would be difficult to keep the cutting edge straight when swinging. Also it might hit the target, bite in a bit, but at the same time begin to rotate and the momentum continue to push the blade into a much greater turn. This could work with axes or hammers too. I'm not sure if the way I phrased it is hard to understand, but i hope you do. Basically, would the weapon cause decreased damage because of this kind of rotation?
A curved sword it's very suitable to get around shields.
I imagine doing tests like these can be quite... thrustrating.
who mach sored you have
thas how you wold use a warhammer or mace ?
i could imagine that if you were to do that "curved thrust", it would also open your defence too much
Now I'm picturing pigs walking around in woolen coats...
How does this sabre compare to the Prussian sabres of the same era?
+Brian Boudreaux The Prussians originally purchased 1796 sabres from the British - the Prussian 1811 is just a copy of the 1796.
As is the American Starr sabre
Did Cold Steel say it was a extremely good thrusting weapon or did they just show you could do it with that implement, Mr. Matt Easton you may know weapons but I doubt you can teach mush of any thing to the guys at Cold Steel, ..with all do respect Power Play 4 Real.