Reina has the worst winrate in Tekken 8... Why?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 87

  • @Andreus9733
    @Andreus9733 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Reina has high crush attacks? That won't fly, needs to be nerfed.
    Meanwhile Alisa:

    • @AlisaTFD
      @AlisaTFD หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      we dont exist shh

  • @theelusivememe1772
    @theelusivememe1772 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I still cant believe they took away reinas crush property from her df 4, but then gave it to king with his df 2 while also giving him a wave dash....

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@theelusivememe1772 yeah king basically has the same move while Reina has to suffer with this nerfed fcdf4 that can barely punish strings now

  • @princekanbatsu2301
    @princekanbatsu2301 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Got her to Tekken King as every other mishima (besides Kaz which i have on Tekken god) and i can confidently say that the reason people lose on her is because not all Reina players are actual mishima players.
    What i mean is, they play her like any other character without wavedash, ewgf to whiff punish etc. because you actually can, since she has df2, her hopkick can opt as a panic button, some of her wave options are implemented in her stance game and so on.
    Problem is you lose when you are against people that starts sidewalking your ff2 pressure or you start losing interactions because you might opt too much into the ff2 followups rather than hit confirming which is hard.
    Wavedash solves the tracking problem cause you can realign with timings and allows you to play defensively when needed because she actually has really good movement.
    In short, she is harder to master than what people think, she is just easier to pick up and start having fun with.

    • @fighting1fefnir
      @fighting1fefnir หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Totally agree, but I feel like part of the trap here is that Reina's non-Mishima tools give insanely low reward compared to other characters because she has the Mishima tools alongside it. If you df2 launch, that's gonna be a 50-60 damage combo where anyone else on the cast with a df2 gets 80+ and some characters can even break 100 damage. If you can't do electrics as a new player you basically can't get real combo damage and that puts you at a massive disadvantage. Between that and her stances being super vulnerable to jabs and grabs and all of her offense flowing into that vulnerable stance pressure, Reina invites you to play her in a way that will get you killed unless you already have rock solid Tekken fundamentals.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I see, that makes a lot of sense tbh. Most Reina players I fight tend to spam ff2 instead off electric whereas I'm the complete opposite because I used to play mishimas a lot. I think they see her less of a mishima and more of a regular waifu character with stances.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yeah people like to say that you don't need the mishima tools to play Reina but I've always disagreed with that. There's no reason not to learn and use electrics with Reina lol it's her best launch that she can throw out and get insane damage.

    • @princekanbatsu2301
      @princekanbatsu2301 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@fighting1fefnir Yeah it's totally a "trap" but i think it's a good deal.
      I think i like how they made this character, better have a df2 that gives 60 damage combo rather than being like Kaz and not have it at all, you get what i mean.
      I'm all for "trying to get new players"
      Besides what players tend to do, is that they over rely on those moves/shenanigans instead of trying to actually master both taido and mishima parts of her kit.
      Ps: Her not being my main at all, makes me feel like i have no right to judge what could be a decent buff for her Taido moves.
      I gotta say i had no issue bringing her to Tekken King tho, could've actually did it faster if i already knew the combos and all from the start, so i'm guessing she is strong despite having subpar lows.

  • @MSilva-eh4rr
    @MSilva-eh4rr หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Its my bad, been hopping between raijin and kishin for too long that it even shows in the stats now

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      😭😭😭 don’t worry bro im making the Tekken god + stat worse 😔

    • @Doublejho
      @Doublejho หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      i feel this so hard, i got to tekken king once and haven't been able to get back there since, meanwhile i run into the worst players i've ever seen who are up here with me and wonder where i've gone wrong

  • @phulcq6716
    @phulcq6716 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    I recently started playing Reina and I'm loving it, she's definitely my new main (previously Devil Jin). But I absolutely found her to be my hardest character to rank up with. Bear in mind I'm only blue.
    I found her hard at all levels (at least compared to other characters) for different reasons. At low ranks people are spamming strings at each other and stand blocking. Reinas are going to struggle more than most of the cast in that environment.
    A little higher and people are using a lot of mixups. Most Reinas are just spamming sentai mixups all the time, and massively overusing sen~3. Even at orange ranks you see nearly everyone ready to duck and launch every sentai on reaction.
    Slightly higher I think the main sources of damage for most characters are frame traps and unbroken throws. Reina doesn't have many good frame traps, and the ones she does have are known by almost everybody even at orange ranks. Reina seems to mostly just frame trap herself to be honest. She also has trouble setting up throws since her plus moves tend to come with a lot of pushback, so that's an easy source of damage at these ranks largely gone for Reina.
    A little higher (like red and purple ranks) and most Reinas I came across would still be extremely aggressive. Someone told them Reina is a rushdown character and they're taking that very seriously. Lots of sentai mixups, lots of electrics, lots of hellsweeps, and lots of 22, 222 and 2222. I think the risk/reward is just not really in Reina's favour on these used alone so I think these players probably just lose a lot unless they have a good game and land some electrics.
    A bit higher and my experience is that Reina is really really strong if you play around her whole movelist to find setup opportunities. But I think this is pretty hard, you've got to always be a step ahead of your opponent and identify their tendencies quickly and accurately (not just run your offence mindlessly). On top of that, her combos are definitely on the harder side I think. They easily go wrong with off-axis, slight mistiming or with awkward walls. So even when things go well, its easy to lose a lot of the upside from a fluffed combo.
    Where I am now, a lot of the cast are still able to rely on their good frametraps, knowledge checks, or mixups that have really solid risk/reward, which just don't feel like good options on Reina. What success I've had has come entirely from building up an arsenal of setups, trying to overwhelm my opponent with as much of my movelist as possible so that I can sneak in the occasional low without immediately getting killed for it, and ensuring I can adapt my finicky combos for everything. So really by far this is the least braindead character I've played. If I want to win, I have to lock in and really study my opponent.
    I think that's a fundamentally really hard game plan on a really popular character, so I would absolutely expect her win rates to reflect that and have her down with other popular characters with tricky game plans like Bryan and Kazuya. Is she harder than them? Maybe not on the execution front with her waifu tools, but Bryan gets a million damage whenever he's right, and Kazuya can run very effective mixups once he gets some pressure going. Personally I find it harder to win on Reina - I feel like I've really got to really earn every bit of damage, even at blue ranks.
    Anyway, that's my take as a complete noob. Thanks for the video!

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thanks for sharing your experience, i'm glad you're having fun playing Reina! I pretty much agree with what you said about Reina. I can't remember if I mentioned this in the video but Reina has some of the most inconsistent combos in the game. Like you said, they can easily mess up if you're a tiny bit off-axis. This makes you have to learn different combos for these types of situtations which would be difficult for beginners. Yeah she also doesn't have a lot of good frametraps and that even as a "High Rank" Reina player, I find it hard to stop mashers + people who step a lot. For example, its hard to stop people from mashing after f4 on block unless you do 1+2 which is a -10 mid.

  • @allaccordingtokeikaku1353
    @allaccordingtokeikaku1353 หลายเดือนก่อน +47

    Unpopular opinion, reina was A tier at launch then got nerfed down to B tier. She was never S tier.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      Yea she was mad overrated at launch because she was a new character. You can't call her a top 5 character when we had launch dragunov, nina, azucena, jin, jun etc lol

    • @Ti_Fire
      @Ti_Fire หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yea it’s nuts dude. Sometimes playing her I feel like I’m cheesing with hellsweep a little, but other chars have such bonkers moves that are so little risk so high reward

    • @morky3673
      @morky3673 หลายเดือนก่อน

      100%... at the mid levels (red to blue) maybe argument for a+ on release with her rushy approach.

    • @MrSamuelAdam4
      @MrSamuelAdam4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      *"Reina was never S tier"*
      FF2 from Tekken 8 launch as entered the chat room

    • @morky3673
      @morky3673 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MrSamuelAdam4 it was just less steppable. Still stepped both ways and easily stepped to her right.

  • @GreenTeaKP
    @GreenTeaKP หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This is what I noticed. Reina has 2 popular playstyles:
    1) Casino + Ff2 spam to skip neutral (very easy but very bad)
    2) Fundamental adaptive gameplay with a healthy mix of the whole moveset (hard but good)

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Most Reina players I fight play casino and ff2 spam. I think it's because of how it easy it is to do like you've mentioned and how overrated it is lol. The Tekken community got Reina players thinking that spamming ff2 will get you high ranks

    • @sorataoki
      @sorataoki หลายเดือนก่อน

      Phidx have video where he just spam ff2 and win on blue ranks

  • @manlikemodie3206
    @manlikemodie3206 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Were the high crush moves that oppressive? Feels stupid that my ass is on the floor and I'm getting clipped by jabs ngl 😭

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      yea they were good, mainly fcdf4. you could throw it out whenever and its -14 so you dont get launched

  • @SeveredWorldLore
    @SeveredWorldLore หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    It has nothing do with nerfs and buffs, as Reina always had low win rates since launch. The answer is simply that Reina is difficult to play. She is too stance dependent for basic tools like plus frames, and lows. So players have to rely on punishment and jab pressure to get the ball rolling.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah I guess so, just didn't expect her win rate to plummet so hard in the higher ranks.

  • @fighting1fefnir
    @fighting1fefnir หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I joke with my friends a lot that Reina's such a bad character because they forgot to give her a 3 button, but there's some truth to that and people forget it all the time. Reina's 3 is just entirely dedicated to Unsoku stance movement so an entire chunk of her moves that could be buttons that open up pressure options are instead bad sidesteps attached to a parry you have to cancel on frame 2 or you get no reward. This is on top of her having the hybrid moveset, where both sides of the kit suffer to allow the other to exist. Reina's Mishima tools aren't as good as they could be because she has access to things like hopkick and df2, she loses combo damage and is punishable on some of her wall enders with finnicky oki setups when it doesn't fling them off axis, but her df2 is the only one in the game that's both unsafe and doesn't launch duckers because her "real" launcher is EWGF, the properties of her generic Tekken tools suffer compared to the rest of the cast because she has access to Mishima tools. If you play Reina with the df2 and hopkick, she's an underwhelming normal Tekken character. If you play Reina with the Mishima tools, you'd probably be getting more out of applying those skills to Heihachi where you get 30 more damage per combo or Kazuya where you have more useful tools and strong oki.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Unsoku stance just isn't really all that good. I mean I like to use standing 3 a lot but yeah isn't a crazy move. I agree with what you said about her Mishima tools and I really wish they made her df2 hit on crouching status. A lot of people try discredit her difficulty by mentioning the fact that she has a df2 (even though devil jin has i15 can cans to launch...) I think it's funny how they gave her a Mishima ff3 but its easily the worse one and is basically useless.

  • @thorcolossus
    @thorcolossus หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The biggest reason why her win rate is so low is that her neutral lows are so weak and she lacks ch launching mids from neutral and stance. The lack of neutral ch mids is fine because of wave dash 3 and wavu setups. The nerf to ff2 is fine, but the nerf to her evasion was too much.
    By far, her having the worst lows in the game and the worst couch game is detrimental and undeserved. Db2 being 20f, launch punishable and having no ch properties is baffling. Db2 should high crush and at least have ch properties. She should also have a crouching low for mixup sake. Can’t tell you how many times I lost because I can’t easily frame my opponent. Every character in T8 has a decent low from natural and crouch. Even heihaichi, Lidia and Steve have better lows than her.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Db2 is so bad for how risky it is. The thing i hate the most is that it has zero tracking which wouldn't be too bad but pretty much all her other pokes have no tracking apart from her df1.

  • @willthelemon5681
    @willthelemon5681 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think what gets me is that she was so popular that once you get to higher ranks people know how to deal with her. FF2 sentai 3? Simply duck as it will cover not only the high but the low as well. Then punish that shit.

  • @cbsaulren
    @cbsaulren หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I started playing Tekken with 8 and knew nothing about the game. After playing Jun and Asuka to orange, I wanted to switch to a character with more execution so I picked Reina. I was frustrated with how often I would lose to players who seemed much worse than me. Everyone said it's because she's high execution but I could tell that the combination of player matchup knowledge and her "canned" move set caused her have to fight an uphill battle. People still complain about her incessantly and try to rank her higher tier but Reina mains know the truth! Maybe she'll see some buffs in the upcoming balance patch.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Hmm that's interesting to hear the experience of a beginner Reina player. I started playing tekken in t7 so I didn't have that experience in t8. I think if people tried Reina out themselves, they would probably change their opinion on her lol. Buffs would be nice but I mainly want to see bug fixes as she has quite a couple.

  • @BackTurnedLegend
    @BackTurnedLegend หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Her change said Yeah I know your fighting style Taido is meant to be evasive, but let’s forget all that and you’re now only a Mishima lol

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      can barely use b3 anymore without its high crushing :(

    • @Nachtmahr616
      @Nachtmahr616 หลายเดือนก่อน

      "why sidestep when you can block and punish?". Murray needs to be fired

    • @PK-ow1kj
      @PK-ow1kj หลายเดือนก่อน

      Dude this is the perfect encapsulation of what's going wrong with this character...
      They took away her core identity ( Evasion ) and now we're left with an incomplete, half baked stance mishima character that doesn't feel good to play as...
      TDLR : They need to revert back the evasion nerfs or buff/rework her evasive playstyle.

  • @PK-ow1kj
    @PK-ow1kj หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Her evasive playstyle needs significant buffs/rework.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah it’s much harder now with stuff like unsoku not high crushing anymore

  • @controlthecombatproduction2868
    @controlthecombatproduction2868 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Bro ever sense I hoped back on for the last time all I fought was jins and kings and all types of fast frame characters and dude most of reina stuff is so patched to the ground to the fact that her punish attacks. I know some times I mess up but I noticed that some of her punish attacks get easily blocked now. Not sure if they slowed it or what but when they hit and I gobfor a armor attack they some how still block it. Like what ????? Yeah tekken 8 don't know what it wants to do...

  • @abdullahhashmi5323
    @abdullahhashmi5323 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I am the one making the winrate so bad T - T
    Honestly tho, Tekken 8 is my first Tekken game and a lot of the players already have mains from the previous games so in a way, that's their legacy and because of that, a lot of the new players want to play a newcomer because in way, it'll be their legacy or something.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I think a lot of people actually picked up Tekken because of the Reina trailer lol. Yeah it seems like most Reina mains started with Tekken 8 which kinda shows how successful of a character she is.

  • @ant_989
    @ant_989 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    I lose with Reina a lot. Much more than with other characters. She requires much more skill in higher ranks.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yeah she has actual weaknesses unlike the top tiers who you see rampant throughout ranked

  • @yoshitsune5691
    @yoshitsune5691 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Damn I’m glad I’m Raijin rank with her, tho I only have a 50% win rate 😭 I’m trying to implement the moves yagami uses, and that ff2 into fcdf4 and ws2,3 flowchart.
    With the nerfs on ff2 thank god she has a wavedash into ff2 to realign.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah Yagami loves ducking after ff2 haha. Do you mean f2,3? I see Yagami use that a lot. Yeah wavedash realigns with people who try to step although sometimes I wish I could just throw it out as wavedash ff2 is slower

    • @coffeebean_tamer
      @coffeebean_tamer 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Draganov is the secret boss taking every other characters strengths for himself.... A plan his had since T6

  • @vapersmith7859
    @vapersmith7859 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Yeah thing is I had a lot of fun with Reina early on but after the nerfs and discovering other characters some of which are TO this day easier to execute and stronger her appeal took a massive hit.
    I can see there was more truth to this than I initially thought.
    It doesn't help that unlike Alisa & Paul who took over my roster the matchup knowledge of Reina is widespread and she's tough to pilot while Alisa is both easy to Pilot and nobody knows the matchup while Paul is just straight up simple to use.
    So yeah this took a huge step back from me promoting Reina and most of her promotions lately have been from Alisa getting promoted but I will work hard to change that.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah thing is, you're going to see results way quicker with a character like Alisa as she is 10x easier and stronger than Reina. Reina is a character where you really have to put the work in to see results (Yagami is a prime example).

    • @vapersmith7859
      @vapersmith7859 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@TekRavenger I mean Alisa has Chainsaws she has an aura that can be showcased when you strip Alisa of all her pink and standard costume to reveal a Beneviento like character.
      For those who don't know Beneviento is a Resident evil character who is doll like and has great killing strength so it fits the bill. Reina on the other hand is this special electric warrior who is sophisticated across the board and has a god complex then they weaken her to make it more complicated.

  • @BIuejoker18
    @BIuejoker18 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I mostly agree. I think it does come down mostly to her being a new character and people not having matchup knowledge. But that FF2 change is gigantic imo. Her control of neutral was unreal before(Still really good).
    And yeah random duck into FCdf4 was degenerate. 😂

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yea you notice you ff2 change when you fight a player who knows how to sidestep for sure. Fcdf4 was scrubby asf it really painted a bad image of Reina mains 😭

  • @ardd24
    @ardd24 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I tried playing her for around 300 ranked matches, didnt get anywhere though. She is harder to pilot than 90% of the cast, but in my case my gameplan with her sucked. Maybe that’s the case with other people as well

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah I think she is harder to pilot and she needs a lot more time than other characters to see some reward

  • @truonggiangngo6512
    @truonggiangngo6512 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    She is suffering from the same thing that Lars suffers from

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      what does lars suffer from? i didn't see his win rate

    • @truonggiangngo6512
      @truonggiangngo6512 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @ Both Lars and Reina wanna enforce their stance mix up and it’s pretty weak tbh. When against Lars just hopkick; when up against Reina just do a low like lee‘s d3 works wonders! Ofc Reina and Lars can be played without heavy stance mix up but at that point both of them don’t rly have much to offer and are more likely to get downloaded.

  • @IchimonoMan825
    @IchimonoMan825 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Gotta Lars, gotta make that money, make mix-

  • @Bluegundam13
    @Bluegundam13 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Im currently trying to get reina to fujin (currently mighty ruler) atm do you have any quick tips to get her there? Any moves to use more or any cool set ups?

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Some of my favourite setups are 2,2,2 on block into b+4 (ch launchs people who jab and is safe on block) df3+4 into ws3+4 (catches people who try jab punish) I think being super aggressive with hellsweep and wr pressure is effective at those ranks from what I've seen. Also, hitconfirm sentai powercrush after ff2. Its really good as a lot of people mash or duck after ff2.

    • @Bluegundam13
      @Bluegundam13 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@TekRavengerOkay thank you :), is df 3+4 her roll into her unblockable kick?

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Bluegundam13 nah that’s f3+4, you can input either d3+4 or df3+4 for a i16 counter hit that deals a lot of damage. It also has a follow up with df3+4,4

  • @kingsol4786
    @kingsol4786 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Easy answer the more popular the character the lower the win rate because EVERYONE is using them at all levels of skill. more players more losses. Thats why Kuma has such a high win rate because barely anyone plays him.

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah I agree i just found the win rate for fujin - GoD stat crazy as went from top 5-10 winrate to bottom 4

  • @riastradh
    @riastradh หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Considering 90% of her high crushing moves were and are still unsafe out of heat, I still don’t understand why they were nerfed.
    At the very least can we get DF2 to launch crouchers? If I’m gonna get grabbed out of low profile moves they shouldn’t be safe either

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      df2 launching crouchers would be so good 🙏

  • @IIRyuujiII
    @IIRyuujiII หลายเดือนก่อน

    This winrate deviation is not that big; When you consider that at the tip top it maxes out at around 55% and the dirt bottom is around 46% (9%). Just in case some people are looking at the size of the graph bars instead of the numbers they represent. Don't cry for Reina just yet.

  • @전병조-g5v
    @전병조-g5v 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Same reason why Shaheen and Feng has a high win rate.
    They are played by the most determined serious players who looks closely to the character's powers, not the asthetics.
    Reina is too pretty to be played only by serious players.

  • @GOTTA_RUN
    @GOTTA_RUN หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Newbie and gooner character. They ruined her win rate percentage.

    • @yoshitsune5691
      @yoshitsune5691 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Gooners be playing with one hand 😂

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      i thought azucena or lili was the gooner character 😭

  • @Ti_Fire
    @Ti_Fire หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Reina is extremely demanding in the creativity department, but when you ARE creative you can fucking DESTROY people.
    This leads to them being like “this isn’t faaair” blah blah
    But Kazuya can do the same thing. He has less tools to work with, but they are sooooo stroooong

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน

      I agree you need to be creative to be successful in high level of play. Just look at Yagami's Reina compared to anyone elses

    • @harmonator210
      @harmonator210 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      If you confidently know the match up for reina creativity just wont save you your way to risky

  • @young8584
    @young8584 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I thinks shes fine. Shes jsut hard to play simple as that. And new players are still trying to leran her = lose alot

    • @TekRavenger
      @TekRavenger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Pretty much in a nutshell.

  • @34_Israel
    @34_Israel หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Reina players just don't know how to play Mishimas.