The INSANE Story Of Pirates Of The Caribbean's Soundtrack
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2024
- Well now I'm just confused. The Pirates Of The Caribbean Soundtrack went through quite a lot just to get made! Luckily for us, it gave us some of the most iconic themes of all time.
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Now I want to know what an Alan Silvestri Pirates soundtrack would've sounded like. Imagine it was just the Avengers theme lmao
hi charles! i love your videos and u should try looking into the made in abyss soundtrack, for me! Its a breathtaking one to say the least and a very underrated one at that
Davy Jones vs Thanos would go hard
I was wondering if you can check out the OST to the game Sky: Children of the Light. It’s amazing!! And I’d love to see what you have to say about it.
Dear Charles, if it's not too much trouble, I recommend talking about Pat Metheny's "Part Three" in "The Way Up" album.
It might be interesting to check out the chord progressions within this masterpiece.
BTW, your channel is currently one of my favorites, on TH-cam! 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you and long live to all musicians in this channel !
Charles Cornell, can you cover the Harry Potter theme? PLEASE?😍
6/8 crying in the background while 4/4 gets all the credit again...
Just thought the same, doesn't it make way more sense to notate this in 6/8 than fiddling around with triplets everywhere.
It's a 12/8 time signature.
It's 6/8.
It's definitely 12/8.
12/8 def. works too. the focus was more on the 4/4 and triplets
I swear, every time I hear the theme I’m ready to go swashbuckling across the seven seas.
haha yeah. i feel the same.. It's powerful stuff
Time to go gallivanting!
Did Charles just go through this entire video about this syncopated theme without using the term "hemiola"?
😂😂😂
It feels like English folk music/sea shanties of the era…
Remember, if you're good enough, it's not plagiarism, it's inspiration. and if you're ripping off your OWN work, it's called a style😂
One does have to wonder sometimes if Zimmer thought that section deserved more love. I mean it definately captured the social consciousness in Pirates, but we mostly remember other themes from Gladiator.
@@admthrawnuruClearly that theme deserved its own movie. Just goes to show he has a lot of great ideas.
Nah, hes just a hack.
Do we? @@admthrawnuru
Between Crimson Tide, The Rock and Gladiator, The pirates soundtrack is Kind of a compilation of past Zimmer work
I came here to say this😅
+1 !! I love the PoTC soundtrack, but am always reminded of The Rock. Crimson Tide is another good comparison.
exactly what i was thinking the rock is likely the most obvious as its not so much of a theme in gladiator
Considering how overtly this theme ripped off his other works, I always thought this theme was as cheesy and bad as the films (which I also disliked and never bothered with the rest after the first one). I can honestly say that the music ruined a lot of it for me.
@@sebastiansilverfox6912 the movies did get progressively worse but the first was was a damn fine movie and considering there hadnt been a pirate movie in a decade or so it was a bit of a gamble to make
Under a band teacher who is now retired, each graduating class from my high school got a song that they're practice for all 4 years and would be performed at graduation, my class got the PoTC theme. We also graduated in like an open air orchestra stage....often referred to as a shed for some reason. Anyway the breeze during graduation was blowing just right with the dynamics of the song so all that together... it just holds a really special place in my heart.
That's a cool idea! Now I'm sad my band didn't do that! Damn. That's awesome.
Holds a similar place for me and my son. His final high school talent show performance was an arrangement of a PotC soundtrack medley that I roughed out for solo violin and he polished up for performance. He brought down the house. One of my favorite memories from his HS years.
I played that at my graduation as well!
THE WIND'S ON OUR SIDE, BOYS!
Your band teacher sounds amazing.
Don't forget Hans Zimmer's most influential precurser to this soundtrack, he scored Muppets Treasure Island only a few years before!
Came here to say the same thing... That was the soundtrack where I first fell in love with his writing.
Still my favourite Piratefilm score ever 🙂🎶
His score for The Rock is also similar.
@@Jesper-Musicyep!
The OG epic pirate score!
Learning that a composer has resused their own phrasts/structures doesn’t disappoint me...
John Williams has been doing it for decades, and I still love it.
There is no question: If it works, write it!
Frankly if you've heard more than 4 or 5 of either williams or Zimmer's works you can hear another one and almost instantly realize who the composer probably is. Both their styles are very recognisable and tend to referance their past work.
@@merendellsame goes for Danny Elfman
Came here to see if you'd spotted the little "Gladiator" theme-lift at 9:00. Thank you for being the first person I've found online to acknowledge something I've known for years - that Hans Zimmer lifted his own "Gladiator" thematic material for "Pirates". I watched that battle scene from "Gladiator" so many times, as a kid, so the music was burned into my memory. Then when "Pirates" first came out and everyone went nuts over the music, my ears instantly pricked up and thought "Gladiator!" When I realized Hans wrote both movie themes: it simultaneously made film composers seem more human and relatable, while also being a bit of a "glimpse behind the curtain" to see how they can cut corners on movie scores. Not that it's a bad thing. ("Work smart, not hard", and all that.) I've heard that John Williams has a vault of random themes he keeps on file, in case he ever has a movie come up that may need them. Thanks for sharing - great episode!
Re John Williams, i heard somewhere that he was once so overworked while doing a Star Wars movie and a Harry Potter movie at the same time that some musical themes from one found their way into the other. Haven't tried to confirm yet.
Yes. There's a short score from Attack of the Clones in Chamber of Secrets during the quidditch match. Subtle but it's there.
It happened similarly to me but I watched Pirates first and got obsessed with the music and the movie of course. I was 13 and I memorized all the lines and know every song in that score. Then I watched Gladiator like 2 or 3 years later and bought the soundtrack. When I heard the battle theme I immediately noticed that it was pirates!! I looked at the case and it said Hans Zimmer and Klaus Badelt... initially I thought it had been Klaus Badelt who had done both but then eventually I found out it was Zimmer.
One of my favourite cues from the first Pirates film is the first sword fight between Orlando Bloom and Johnny Depp in the blacksmith's shop. It's a really fun swashbuckling cue, with a lot of "Mickey Mousing" of musical stabs following the swordplay, and the story of how it came to be is even more fun. According to an interview with Hans (it's on TH-cam somewhere), he'd been struggling with this scene for days and decided to take a break and get out of the studio. At that point the assistant (who'd only ever been making the tea at that point) asked if he could have a go at scoring the scene. When Hans got back, he claims he listened to the cue and turned to the assistant and simply told him "OK, you've made your last cup of tea". You might have heard of that assistant as he's done pretty well since then - Ramin Djawadi!
From what I've heard this is very much Hans Zimmer's kind of workplace thing 😃
No f way! Have you got any source about that? That's such a cool story, why have I never heard about it?
@@corentincolasdesfrancs6312there is a recent documentary about Hans Zimmer. Does not include this particular story, but presents a workplace that fits it quite well. You should check it out
OMG !!! This story is so good it could be the plot for a movie !!
Greetings from Brasil
@@corentincolasdesfrancs6312iirc it’s from a roundtable discussion of his. It’s a pretty long video though, not sure which part the story came up
Within the Pirates movies, Up is Down is an amazing simple piece that weaves in the theme.
Second favorite theme.
Certainly! I also love "One Day" from the third movie
I dare say the horn solo in Up is down makes the piece more epic than main theme
Agree on "Up is down" and "One day", and I'll add "At Wit's End"
Last part of the kraken is also insane
Fun fact about hans zimmer's music, almost everything he has written is in Dminor, and you can hear his 'motifs' throughout all his songs. From Lion King, gladiator, spirit, holiday, inception, batman, interstellar, mission impossible 2, etc.
Well, that's the thing. Is he really good if he just reuses the same thing over and over again? He's in the game for so long... And still recycling till the end of time.
@@dowal199 if its good hes good but perhaps not that creative. if he makes good stuff out of a single key when others cant then perhaps hes creative?
In his Masterclass he admits that he loves D minor
This theme is actually in Lion King two (different composer). Which is wild.
Zimmer once said the Batman is D Minor & Superman is C Major - as established by Williams & Elfman.
Where you start to play the Gladiator theme, the first few chords and the associated rhythm is lifted from Gustav Holst ‘Mars’ from The Planets. So many of both Zimmer and Williams’ scores seem to hark back to Holst’s groundbreaking work.
My favourite part of the Pirates score is the fact that it is so memorable and hummable. That is something that I really miss in movies nowadays.
It's far too intense for a relaxed hummer like me
The irony being that Zimmer himself is largely the _cause_ of that decline in the quality of soundtracks in the mid-00s and beyond, as this video notes towards the end.
The connective tissue between PIRATES and GLADIATOR doesn't stop there. So many scores dancing around the same idea. Go listen to DROP ZONE, the track "Too many notes, not enough rests" around 2:00 and you can hear one of the earlier iterations of this. More found in CRIMSON TIDE, BLACK RAIN, BACKDRAFT, THE PEACEMAKER etc.
For me it's a signature, not a lift. It's him being him.
@CharlesCornellStudios ^ The DENSE brass harmonies of the Banner Saga games????
I was instantly thinking of Drop Zone
The rock also has similar sounds too
FINALLY, someone else caught it in BACK DRAFT and BLACK RAIN. Also check out the finale of BROKEN ARROW.
also the score for The Rock (fantastic score btw)
I'm so glad you adressed the similarities between Pirates and Gladiator, and did it with more substance than just sticking both side by side and pointing out they're "the same". Your comprehensive approach allows us to understand Zimmer's style and brillance, but also the subtle differences is his work. I pretty much noticed from the get-go the resemblance between the two themes but I now have much more appreciation for both individually. Credits to Badelt as well, for dressing Zimmer's initial themes in such a grandiose manner.
Also, oh my god how can one fire Silvestri!? I must say I have chills just thinking about what he would have made out of Pirates ...
So glad you brought up Gladiator. I remember when I first bought the Pirate's CD back in the day and really listened to it, I thought, "I've heard this before." Back then I just thought Klaus Badelt was ripping of Hans Zimmer.
Same :D I remember how satisfied I was when I finally found where I heard that before. :) I saw that Badelt worked on the Gladitor too, so I thought maybe he came up with this part, and 'took it' to his next job.
I always assumed Badelt was Zimmer’s student hired to sound like Zimmer because they couldn’t get Zimmer. It’s not just Gladiator I recognized in Pirates, but Muppet Treasure Island too-and that’s from the 90s!
@@0nly0NE. I wondered if Badelt wasn't a pseudonym, too
For me it was the other way round: watched Pirates then Gladiator and noticed the similarity in Gladiator to what I knew.
Just need to watch Muppet Treasure Island now...
The music is simple, but...the orchestration and the arrangement make it legendary.
The entire soundtrack of At World's End is close to perfection for me, I adore the way Hans uses and intertwines all the themes of the trilogy!
My fav is Litoff
Up is Down and One Day
@@TrailLightMusicUp is Down is ICONIC!!!! My high school marching band did a “Pirates of the Caribbean” Trilogy medley, and the “Up is Down” segment, our field commander and Drum Major were actually INVERTED, directing upside down for about 30-45 seconds.
One Day is simply the most gorgeous piece of music in an outstanding score.
@@saphiro007 that’s wild. Reminds of Tommy Lee and his rotating drum kit if you ever saw Motley Crue on tour in the 80’s. If you’re interested, Brad Frey has a great score reduction of Up is Down on his channel here: th-cam.com/video/9IQknEzGqGs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=MS0pqKPY1gEmzr9U
The battle theme from Gladiator is classic and clearly inspired Pirates. And I love the "Barbarian Horde" theme, which is clearly inspired by Mars, Bringer of War from Holst. But I absolutely *adore* the collaboration with Lisa Girard of Dead Can Dance on "Now We are Free".
The timing of your video is spooky to me because just the other night I watched Gladiator for the first time in over a decade. Wanted to see how it looked in 4K. As I was listening to the score, I thought wow this sounds a lot like POTC! Happy to see your take on it and know I was not imagining things!
I'm surprised that it wasn't mentioned that Klaus Badelt was also credited on the Gladiator score (a fair bit of additional music as well as being score co-producer)
Not only that, I heard that giving the Pirates score credit to Klaus was sort of reciprocity for not having enough credit on Klaus' name for the Gladiator score. Also that they had an argument and this was Hans' way of making amends and apologizing to Klaus.
Just said the same thing before seeing your comment!
Hey Charles! Long time lurking fan, love your stuff! Just wanted to point out that Klaus Badelt worked for Zimmer from 1998-2004 and very specifically has a co-writing and co-producing credit for the Gladiator score. There is a very high likelihood that he used his OWN material from Gladiator on Pirates while Zimmer was on Samurai. It’s just a pretty big assumption that you made about how it went down when there is definitely some ambiguity about authorship that needs to be accounted for. Much love!
That's unlikely, specifically because Nick Glennie-Smith scored both The Rock and The Lion King 2, both of which contain pieces of the score. Both also involved Nick Glennie-Smith consulting with Zimmer. Either Zimmer got it from Glennie-Smith, or vice versa. My bet is the latter.
My brother in law is a film composer in LA. Many years ago he was an intern for Klaus Badelt. Klaus absolutely wrote the Pirates theme!
Glad you've finally talked about my favorite movie and soundtrack growing up, Charles! These movies not only inspired me to get into filmaking and dreaming of becoming a director one day, but also its soundtrack was literally the first music tracks ive listened to when i started listening to music on my own.
Id suggest you listen to POTC: at world's end's soundtrack, and especially in the form of the extended score (it's like a deluxe version that used to be sold on CD, and you can't find it on music apps, only on TH-cam and maybe some old looking sites). It's the pinnacle of the original POTC trilogy, packed with several themes for every character and thematic motifs that are intertwined with each other through the score, and the extended version has the most beautiful 'album suites' that are these a bit longer pieces that are literally the original extended themes (not like a cheap edit on youtube) and it also has some alternate versions to some pieces in several scenes which is really interesting to compare.
Anyway, highly suggested!
THANK YOU! You finally compared Pirates and Gladiator's themes in a musical theory sort of way. I knew I wasn't crazy and I just wanted someone to explain it to me how they are the same but different being not that musically inclined myself. You managed to do it and I am happy to know the melody changes but their relationships to one another.
Same... I suspecked the same thing for years that the two ost are related but i did not have musical understanding
I remember getting really into the Gladiator soundtrack in 2006/2007, and hearing the similarity then. I actually made a friend listen to that section of the battle theme and guess what movie it was from, and she guessed Pirates of the Caribbean. And I was like, “no, it’s just the piece Hans Zimmer self-plagiarized for Pirates.”
That was the 'epic' period of zimmer. You can hear the same structure and taste in 'Spirit' and 'Road to Eldorado' as well. Lovely
gladiator...
First time I heard this "theme" was in Gladiator and the battle scene
And The Rock
It really hurts my musical eyes to see that in 4/4 and not 12/8 :ooo
As a musician I agree but I also think k it's a really clever way to point out the hemiola of the quarter note triplet affect he talks about in minute 5
Weird. I played this in 3/4 back in the day when I was younger. Maybe they did it this way because it was easier to teach but there are definitely sections where 12/8 doesn’t work without time signature changes throughout the piece.
Why not 6/4 or 6/8?
@@MikkoRantalainen it wouldn't be 6/4 cause they aren't fractions and they can't reduce, also it's in bears of four not two so 12/8 insead of 6/8
But everything except the melody is doing patterns of 4, and the triplets aren't too complicated to read. Syncopated 4/4 just makes sense.
You can also hear the "Pirates" melody in the Colosseum battle in Gladiator. In fact if you watch the TH-cam video "Gladiator - Colosseum Battle" and listen specifically from 6:30 to 6:45 you'll go nuts. I've known this for so long I kinda waited for this video and explanation for ages. Thanks!
I listened to those over and over as a kid and loved humming them both together, going from pirates to gladiator to pirates. I’m so glad I can finally hear what I was hearing!
Hans Zimmer's work on The Lion King doesn't get the credit it deserves, in my opinion. To Die For, This Land and King of Pride Rock are simply staggering. The section in the canyon is heart-wrenching and it's just all around epic, epic, epic. I would love to watch a breakdown on that from you.
Fellow huge fan of all those tracks from TLK, they are epic and incredibly moving.
I second the request for a TLK soundtrack breakdown!
Also was gonna write TLK! It has huge nostalgic value to me, but also the themes are just beautiful!! And I think the fact that they used some of Hans's melodies in the stage version as songs shows how beautiful and touching these melodies were.
Well. He won an Oscar for it, so…
I commented the same! I really like your adjective of "staggering." Those scores fill up a room and make your hairs stand up straight. They're so breathtaking it's like you breathe with the music (especially with This Land)
The Prince of Egypt!
The Pirates movie gave that theme just what it needed - the swish and sway of the ocean, riding the waves! The forest battle it was delimited with martial staccato and hard even rhythm. It really needed the salt of the sea to grow in to its full potential!
One of my favorite movies growing up as a kid was "Muppets Treasure Island". It wasn't till i went back and watched it few years ago that i realised that Hans Zimmer composed the score for this film back in 1996 before Pirates of the Caribbean.
I still love MTI to this day.
If I remember correctly, Hans also provided additional music to the Armageddon sountrack. You can definitely hear a Pirates' cue at the beginning of "Asteroid Chase - Shuttle Crash"
You can also hear early workings of the pirates theme in The Lion King 2 from 1998! Specifically at 42:51 when they run into the rhinos. Same rhythm, same phrasing, and a very similar melody.
So I am not the only one who heard that.
Funny though that Hand Zimmer only worked at the 1st Lion King.
@@Gashahn24 If you close your eyes when you watch the first lion king, it could easily be his work from pirates. Try it some time
I'd noticed that, too!
Yep. That was very strange when we stumbled upon it at my house.
Upon further review…
Nicholas Glennie-Smith is credited with LK2’s score. He was frequent collaborator with Hans Zimmerman and has worked for Remote Control Productions… Formerly Media Ventures Entertainment. And it’s all connected.
My favorite part of the POTC soundtrack has got to be Davy Jones' Theme.
Davy jones theme is the best piece of film music I’ve heard it’s a very beautiful piece
I love this!! As an African composer new to notation, this rhythm sounds familiar to a 4/4 and 6/8. Most times I use both simultaneously when I compose. It's always fun to watch and read the discussions. I learn so much. Thank you.
The Rock (1996) is worth mentioning. Badelt and Zimmer are credited and wipe of PoC can be strongly felt!
the Gladiator track The Battle is right where that came from. I had the Gladiator soundtrack going in the background one day and it hit that part of the theme and I had to turn around and make sure I had not switched sound tracks hahahaha
I used to listen to the Gladiator soundtrack a lot as a teenager and I remember watching POTC in theatures and making the connection right away. I was surprised to see Klaus Badelt's name on the movie and not Hans Zimmer's until I read later that Badelt was a student of Zimmer's. It's great to finally hear the full story.
Even the instrumentation is the same. If you take the Battle Theme as played in Barbarian Horde, it's quite difficult for most people to identify the actual soundtrack. You can even mash both soundtracks up without any changes in orchestration.
this makes total sense to me because i hear so much of John Williams in John Williams scores. they say, good ones borrow, great ones steal, but masters pretty much steal from themselves.
DUDE I'm so glad you did this vid. I remember at the time I heard the pirates and I'm like.... 'Where is this from..." and I remembered thinking "This is just an overfull version of that awesome Gladiator track"
My favorite piece from the POTC soundtrack is the Will and Elizabeth love theme, especially in the third movie. It's most fully featured in the track One Day, and the way the orchestra builds and releases almost makes me feel like I'm listening to a wave crashing. It appears throughout the movie with a bunch of different instrumentation (such as in the track At Wits End, which opens with a haunting solo horn playing part of the theme over strings).
My favorite version of the theme is the oboe solo from "I See Dead People in Boats"
I love that link with Gladiator. But the thing I love more is that it comes after a minute or two of just lifting from Holst! It's fab
Oh, thank you! I hoped that someone else noticed that! The first couple of measures are straight from "Mars, bringer of war".
Yes! I found the same thing. A lot of Mars spread out in few spots in The Battle. Didn’t realize it until I delved a bit more into the score of The Planets.
I remember the moment I discovered that section of Gladiator. Freshman in college, I pulled all my music majors together to marvel and be amazed/confused/outraged
Zimmer actually was sued by the Holst Foundation for similarities to The Planets and it was settled out of court. I love Zimmer’s score for Gladiator especially The Battle and Now We Are Free.
I’m so glad you did this one. I was really thinking about this topic 3 months ago and hoped you had already covered it. Thoughts align.
Thanks for all your videos. I always enjoy them. I went back and listened to Gladiator (The Battle and the Barbarian Horde) and heard some Mask of Zorro and what sounded like The Planets by Holst.
When I was little, I'd get mixed up between Star Wars Main Theme and the theme from Superman.
Some music I'd love to hear you talk about are:
- The Hounds of Spring
- The Black Horse Troop March (used in Looney Tunes)
- Ballet Sacra by David Holsinger
I still find it amazing that all of this "modern classical" (orchestral) music for films just keeps on rolling out these incredible memorable/hummable themes. Way more memorable than many pop songs. These composers are seriously talented and I'm so glad they took the musical journey they did.
I think there are a few composers that started in rock and pop bands (Danny Elfman) or EDM producers that went into film scores too.. Daft Punk had a go (Tron Legacy) and Junkie XL is just a mindblowing composer that has decades of great dance music releases but also does film scoring too.
So much crossover.. there really isnt a bad genre of music, it just takes talent to make the most of it
A lot of people dont like the sound of metal and dont think its musical.. but thats also been taken to the extremes with talent and skill. Sweep picking, tapping, harmonic pinch..
There will always be amazing music if you look hard enough. Laziest take ever is "theres no good new music"!
This channel diving into video game music is further proof that if you just look, you will find great stuff!
I always get super hyped when I'm watching a film and the soundtrack uses anything that's like metal 😂😂
My favorite part of the soundtrack is when Yo ho Yo ho bleeds into the theme at the very end. I worked projection in a theater while this was running and I always made sure I was at the booth for that part. It’s up there with HP’s Double double toil and trouble credits in, I want to say, HP 3.
Your channel and content are a pure gem. As a fellow classical music alumnus, I appreciate you! Cheers!
Both the "Gladiator" and "Pirates" theme have roots in a prior Zimmer soundtrack: Crimson Tide.
I agree, especially the song "Mutiny" after the halfway mark of that song.
And "The Rock"
And the theme from Crimson Tide sounds suspiciously like the Force theme from Star Wars.
Don’t forget The Lion King. Possibly the most original thing he’s written, in that so many of his subsequent works are desperately similar. Gladiator itself is a whole other legal issue, being so close to Holst’s Planets.
I gave up worrying about Zimmer in this way long ago, it’s too frustrating otherwise. You have to think of him instead like a renaissance painter/grand master, where they would paint the hands and faces on a portrait, and their students would fill in the rest of the picture. Zimmer does the same I gather, writing a ‘theme’ and then allowing his studio team of composers to flesh out the rest of the film score. Hence they pick from a back catalogue of his ‘loops’ and hey presto, lots of his film scores sound the same. It’s also why scores like PotC weren’t actually properly recorded, but are built from sequenced samples.
Anyway, it’s a different approach to Williams et al, but it’s valid, and it’s also extremely fruitful.
Listen to "Too many notes, not enough rest" from the movie Drop Zone.
This story has been a not-so-secret one in Hollywood the last 20 years ... From all I've ever heard, you got these details spot on! Most folks absolutely mangle these 'insider' stories, so bravo sir! :)
Oh, of course I'd find you here!
@@AlexMoukalaMusic I haunt the darkest corners of music nerdy youtube
It would be cool to go over the original demo as well! Some really interesting stuff there
The even more open not so secret is perhaps the credit should go to Klaus instead. Many people who worked under him says he does very little time in the booth, relying on his "proteges"
Love your work @awintory!
So happy with this video, I realised this like 15 years ago while I was listening to these soundtracks (way too much!) but didn't have the skills to put it all together. Love the explainer and enthusiasm!
You're literally confirming a theory I had when I was a teen. My mother was a huge soundtrack lover and owned the Gladiator soundtrack. I was super familiar with it. So when PotC came out, of course we bought that one as well. And I had to go find and replay Gladiator because I was like, THESE ARE NEARLY IDENTICAL!! Thank you for this video and reminding me of a super happy times.
8:52 OMG THANK YOU! I feel like I've been being gaslit about this for decades!
And it's a rip of "the planets" mars. By Gustav Holst, written in 1914.
@@FabledGentleman To be fair ripping Mars is like ripping Deus Ires.
Up is down is my favorite, when they are flipping the boat in the third movie. I really enjoyed Zimmer's work in Inception as well. Was also surprised by him not being credited in the fifth film. Easier way to do the 1 2 3, 2 2 3 thing is 1 and uh, 2 and uh (did that in choir to help break down the timing of duple and triple meter) even though it doesn't sound as mind bogglingly awesome 😂
Paola Hermosin, in her Pirates music analysis, shows the theme is just a rework of the 16th century folia, "Rodrigo Martinez". Great music often has a great lineage.
I went to a 400 y o university here in Manila, and before I left uni and transferred to another university, this was played live for some reson by the conservatory of music students there. A full orchestra. That was how I found out about the song.
It was that awesome. 🥰
I'm so glad you talked about Gladiator and Hans Zimmer linking to Pirates -- it was for this exact reason I chose both for a marching band show in college that got selected. So fun and challenging to march to triplets!
I think the origins of those melodies go even further back to The Rock
I guess my other comment got buried because it had a link to the score for others to hear, but, yeah, the main theme to the Rock totally fits with this formula.
@@MichaelGormanWeb I have always though the same.
unfortunately i don't really like Hans Zimmer's music, i can NEVER say his music anything bad but he is way over famed. The Rock was basically his breaktrough, which isn't entirely his work but rather Nick Glennie-Smith. His unique soundtrack is really Rainman which is entirely pure 80s style synth music.
Agree!
Absolutely
Being a music teacher I am delighted with your work. And must agree that Zimmer created a new approach to score movies.
Congrats. Greetings from Brasil
I have been a huge fan of both the pirates score and the gladiator score for years and I've been wondering about the dynamic between Hans' work and Klaus' work. Clearly they worked together, but I'm glad to have more clear resolution. Thanks!
12/8?
Yeah, I'm also on team 12/8
I agreed at first, but because the beat is every 2 notes instead of every 3, It's closer to 6/4
Sheet music is often transcribed 12/8 or 12/4 IIRC. 🤷♂️
@@longschlongsilver7628nah, that’s just syncopation. It’s definitely 12/8
@@longschlongsilver7628nah, that’s just syncopation. It’s definitely 12/8
The story gets crazier when you find out Zimmer wrote all the themes for the first Pirates movie in one night!
There’s a demo on youtube called 4:56 am where you can hear his ideas develop.
Check out the soundtrack from The Rock (1996)
4:56 am: when you forget that you already wrote that.
That might at least partially explain the self-plagiarism.
@@fromchomleystreet that’s oxymoronic, but sure
I remember playing this as our marching band's selection in '06/'07. He's a pirate is still stuck in my head to this day.
Honestly, one of the most criminally underrated Zimmer scores is A League of Their Own-- that final game score is EVERYTHING
Would love you to look at Klaus Badelt's work on The Time Machine btw.
Also Hans got a lot of "Devaluing & discredit" over the POTC 1 score and I remember him having to explain some bits of it on Vi-Control a couple years back. Whatever the reason may be on Klaus and Hans' split we will pro'ly never know but thanks for clearing things up and bringing up his score thematic from Gladiator. Same thing can also be heard in Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron (2002 mind you - a year before POTC) especially in Fort Escape / Wrangler Chase / Iron Horse Camp / Canyon Chase 2 -clearly demoing his musical explorations during those years. Also composers had to write complete orchestral mockups/demos for directors so I believe Klaus pro'ly worked with a mockup at that point. Whether he added, removed, cleared up, sped up or slowed down, fact is most of it was already laid flat on the main theme. Hans made a lot of changes in POTC2 and introduced new things, some worked and some didn't but at that point in time it felt like he was trying to prove a point more than express his musical freedom so I'm glad he's come a long way and completely changed the definition of a movie score. Nice episode!
Yes yes yes! The ost from the Time Machine should definitely be covered on this channel! Eloi, godspeed etc. So good!
I don't exactly get what you are saying about "trying to prove a point". The last time I heard, POTC2 had as incredible a soundtrack as the first one. also, there is a channel called 'andrew merideth' where he explains that 9 composers worked on POTC including famous ones like ramin djawadi and steve jablonsky.
The Zimmer score from Spirit: Stallion absolutely SLAPS and I feel like it's underexposed because the movie was kind of a dud
totally love this score, the harmonics of the voices from the recording sessions in the track, ' stones and river village '
I can't begin to tell you how happy it makes me to get this episode because it DRIVES me crazy when people say that Hans Zimmer was the composer for the first PotC movie. Literally, my soundtrack says Klaus Badelt (I think he did a great job too!). But more importantly, I had noticed the similarities between the Gladiator OST (which might be one of my favorite soundtracks of all time) and Pirates 1. I feel like you could superimpose the video of the Pirates onto the Gladiator Battle Theme LOL would be fun! I think deep diving into the amazing themes of the Gladiator soundtrack would be an interesting video too! The track Barbarian Horde is intense, but the Battle theme is like an introduction to ALL the themes we heard in the movie. But I think Am I Not Merciful is fascinating and I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe its the little bits of melody that stands out from time to time. Anyways, Great video!!! Love it!
It’s like you didn’t even watch the video. He clearly states that Klaus Bedelt was only chosen because contractually Hans was not allowed to have his name on the project, and while he definitely did composition work, Hans wrote the major themes. They’re even derivative of his Gladiator theme
Thank you for your brilliant and insightful breakdown of this title. One of my few classical-style tunes I will play for fun.
Wow 😳, i watched both pirates and gladiator many times, but never noticed that the score is so similar 😅 But when you compared them face to face it became so obvious to the point of having questions like "How didn't i noticed that before?!"
But, speaking seriously, pirates and gladiator have such a different atmosphere, so maybe it was impossible for me to even think about comparing them or trying to find some similarities 🤔
That first motif played from Gladiator sounds a ton like one of the main motifs of Lion King, also a Zimmer work.
I have always internally parsed this theme in 6/8 with hemiolas… weird to see it in 4/4 with triplets
No real expert here, but aren't hemiolas only incidental, to give extra spice to the ending of a phrase? That's how I know them from several Bach pieces.
@@eriktempelman2097
”hemiola: a musical figure in which, typically, two groups of three beats are replaced by three groups of two beats, giving the effect of a shift between triple and duple meter.”
I think this score changed the world of film music in at least two important ways. First, it proved that Hans' inclusion of a large team in the composing process could tap into some powerful creative synergy to produce a top-notch score in record time. And, probably more than any other single factor, this soundtrack convinced the film music world that Hans was actually on to something with his constant push to get high quality sample libraries put together for composers to use. The speed and quality of the composition on display here in inconceivable without the modern tools that we've started to take for granted today. Rumor also has it that some samples actually made it into the final recordings!
Absolutely love it. Great analysis. The theme is iconic. Neil Gow is absolutely an inspiration, his old books are fairly common. Ive marked up a hooge amount of his tunes. Again, this analysis is great. Us composers, we unite :D
I understand squat about music and can barely read notes, but I love your explanations. This particular theme always reminded me of the Russian Trepak rhythm dynamics. Perhaps that's why it sticks so well to memory and has become so popular.
Great video again sir, I have one word for you: John Williams. This is the work: 1. Statement 2. Alt statement, 3. Question 4. Statement 5. Concise statement 1 6. Concise statement 2 7. Concise question, and finally 8. Concise statement 1! If you’re interested look at composers who use another language: Jerry Goldsmith, Marco Beltrami, Ennio Morricone, Dario Marianelli
We used to have both these Gladiator and Pirates themes on the playlist accompanying our tabletop games and it always took me a close listen to tell them apart.
Orchestra student here! We're currently learning this in class and im so excited to master it. Watching this video really helps understand how it sounds and how to make it sound how it is Thank you!
I play tuba in a brass band & having played a couple of Pirates pieces the thematic similarity really struck me when we were given Gladiator recently. Great fun to play, cool bass rhythms driving those ships!
It would be great to see you break down Hans' s Man of Steel - It lays in 2013, right between his older orchestral style and the recent more atmospheric one. I find it to be a perfect blend, there is an amazing work with whole thematic material and soundscape (orchestra and soft piano, 12 drummers, superman' s powerful pedal steel guitar with brass and shivering synth, etc) The score alone tells the story amazingly.
... And Pirates... from what I know, Hans wrote that theme in one night right after he saw the film. So the demo is called "Pirates, Day one, 4:56 AM"...
... He was also having a fun with writing character themes for the next films in the series, because most of them start with the same three notes - Jack, Beckett, Jones... Love these little things he always puts in.
I don’t know a single thing about music..but it’s cool seeing how enthusiastic you explain it…and I am actually learning some things !
Having listened to Gladiator, The Rock etc soundtracks a LOT, I always thought this theme sounded 100% Hans Zimmer, but a slap-dash effort to try and make previous themes sound different. Now that makes sense. The best pirate movie theme IMO is Muppet Treasure Island by . . . Hans Zimmer!
Hans Zimmer: I'm going to reuse harmonic, rhythmic, and melodic motifs from one of my previous film scores.
James Horner: Hold my beer.
Rest in peace, great master and teacher James Horner.
I just literally laughed outloud when I read your comment :D You can literally sing the Titanic theme song along to Avatar.
@@sonicclang TITANIC often reminded me of BRAVEHEART. AVATAR, more of GLORY.
But I think this is more a problem originating in the use of temporary tracks by directors who eventually comes to be too attached to it. And if they want their works to be kept in movies, composers has sometimes to follow what directors and producers just want.
Oh my, so glad someone else thinks like me ! I love James Horner, he was a great composer, but as far as self plagiarism goes, I think he was the greatest ! Troy sounds like Willow, Avatar is a watered down version of Aliens, and so on. And yet, he was also able to create amazing scores, from epic (Braveheart, Glory) to subdued (Field of Dreams, Cocoon).
@@sylviecharlois1165 About epic, I listen very often his complete score for KRULL : the movie was (is) highly flawed but gee... What a fantastic music !
The Prince of Egypt (also composed by our friend Hans) also has a bunch of similar themes to these films, and is also an absolute banger of a film by itself.
True. Also Hans composed the score and Stephen Schwartz composed the songs which are also amazing.
@@Phelie315 everything in The Prince of Egypt is amazing
And Gladiator, particularly "the battle" which literally has the POTC theme in an early form haha edit: whoops hadn't finished the video lel
@@ferretartI haven’t finished yet and keep wanting to say Gladiator the battle! So I paused and started to look at the comments!
I spoke to my friends about the similarity to gladiators the battle, and even exactly that moment in the score. It was such a fun feeling seeing you talk about it aswell!
This was so cool hearing Pirates and Gladiator back to back. My favorite theme from the Pirates film is the low end Bass and Cellos when we first see Jack walking to the Dauntless ship. It’s a slow jerky rhythm almost like the sound of walking drunk.
my favorite piece from pirates is the track "At Wit's End."
It has most of the motifs, but the best part is a quiet choir bit that goes into a huge violin swell. Really good.
I understand where you’re coming from but you are wrong. Of course the best track from the pirates movies is one day from “at worlds end”
Both of those tracks are pretty awesome
Charles, first off, LOVE your content! I'm curious as to why you wouldn't want to feel this in 12/8 instead of 4/4 with triplets? Also, if you haven't had the chance to watch Hans Zimmer's Live in Prague recording I cannot reommend it highly enough. I was fortunate enough to see him perform in Nashville around this time and it is still one of the greatest events I have ever been to in my entire life. Seeing this theme along with so many others he is famous for realized by the man himself with the stellar musicians he was touring with such as Guthrie Govan on guitar, Tina Guo on Cello, and even Lebo M for The Lion King was an experience unlike any other. The stories he told and the emotion he conveyed when talking about each piece of music and all of the people he worked with throughout his career were such a loving display of humility and the power music has to bring us together.
Your editing is great, I love your videos
I was a LA studio musician in the early 2000s and remember playing in the orchestra that recorded this soundtrack for the movie. I remember thinking it wss a catchy tune but had no idea the movie would be so popular.
My favorite part of the score was doing it in a symphonic band. The percussion parts are so complex, and really fun!
I have actually puzzled gladiator and pirates themes together 10 years ago for my music assignment in high school. Im so glad someone else made the connection.
Fun fact, go listen to opening titles from modern warfare 2 and then listen to why so serious from batman
The Same ideas can be already heard in Crimson Tide from 1995 and that theme was repurposed to the film the Rock. It is kind of hilarious that mister Zimmer has essentially just rearranged the same theme over and over again...
They are very epic and iconic themes non the less
Great video! There is also a dark, brooding theme for the cursed pirates as Barbossa is sailing into Isla de Muerta. This theme Zimmer lifted from Crimson Tide (a movie about a mutiny, so appropriate!)
I think the theme is so iconic because it almost sounds like it’s talking. It’s like an argument between two pirates
“One Day” from Pirates of the Caribbean and “interstellar” are my favorites
"One Day" is my absolute favorite Zimmer piece! I was scouring these comments to see if someone else had mentioned it. I think it's super underrated. I feel like those French horns reach into my soul to wrench it from my body. What a piece!
At Wit’s End from the third movie is definitely my favorite from all the soundtracks! It’s just so incredibly diverse with it’s quiet and tender moments and also the grand epic scenes. Plus the scene in the movie is just hauntingly beautiful when their ship sails towards the end of the world. It’s a beautiful piece
Wow, mindblowing. You can also feel the similarities between the soundtrack of The Holiday and It's Complicated, both composed by Hans. Creativity is also finding new homes to old ideas 👌🏻
Hey Charles,
If you want to take this any further, examine the main themes of THE ROCK (1996) and THE MAN IN THE IRON MASK (1998), especially what happens around 1:27. (Hummell Gets the Rockets and Surrounded).
Yes!! Absolutely. I can’t believe it wasn’t mentioned. The theme has been kicking around for years. When I first heard Pirates, I thought they’d just lifted it from The Rock. Near identical
Dude, just want to go out and say that you're AWESOME. I've only encountered like two people in my life who ever shared the same passion I have for music, film or video game related. To see you onscreen reacting to HTTYD, Joe Hisaishi, BOTW, etc. brings me so much joy. I'm like, "OH MY GOSH there are others out there who are PASSIONATE like me about this stuff!"
To just sit and listen to some of the greatest scores of all time and just not have any words to describe it (best we can do is "aughwww!!!!!"), it is just so powerful. And then you take it even further and explain it all with some of the best-nerdy-stuff I've ever heard musically.
I'm subbed for life now, bro! Keep that flame alive!
This is great, we were rewatching Simba’s Pride a couple weeks ago and suddenly realized that the Pirates theme is right there in the instrumental score!
EDIT: in case you didn’t know, Simba’s Pride is scored by Nikolas Glennie-Smith who is a part of Zimmer’s Remote Control Productions.
I don't usually care too much about this kind of detail for music/scores, but you made this super entertaining, had my full attention ask the way through the video!