Just finished rebuilding my EQ-G with the help from your video. It was a great help! When adjusting the worm gear to eliminate backlash, I used this trick. Back out the adjusting set screws quite a bit. Set the mount so the worm gear is close to vertical and turn the shaft so the worm gear carrier is on top. Loosen the carrier bolts just until the carrier moves easily. At this point you have gravity pushing the worm gear drive together. "Tighten the set screw on the worm gear side until it just touches the stop. Snug the carrier bolts so you have some friction between the carrier and the mount body. Now snug the bottom set screw against its stop. Now you are VERY close to where you want to be to eliminate all backlash. You may still need to make some final adjustments, but you easily get to an excellent starting point. Don't forget the all important test for binding (360+ degrees in both directions), then the final tightening of the carrier bolts and then testing again.
Absolutely a top guide Joe and thank you for the shout out. You did a great job showing all the steps needed to complete this and showed some different ways and techniques which is great as people can choose which suits them best. So glad you were able to get it all dialled in even though it can take a while (clouds do not help) Really well done on a great video.
I appreciate the efforts going into documenting this process and it will be a benefit for all of us! Its a great contribution for the astro community . Clear skies
Holy WOWWW. If I were to try to do this, I would most likely end up with two separate mounts ... due to not putting all the parts back in place. You are certainly more mechanically inclined than me. Well done Joe. At least I learned what is going on inside the mount when it is tracking.
Thanks Pat! I do these sorts of things a lot, but if it wasn't for Glenn doing it first, I never would have attempted it lol. Had to make sure he didn't break his first. If you're not mechanically inclined I would say do not attempt it.
On tweaking the worm mesh at the end, Ive found that if you just remove the motor drive belt and zero the backlash and minimize the stiction all in one setting, you will save a bunch of time trying to set it, crank it all back up and do some guiding to see if its set right. Believe me, compared to other mounts, this mount is very easy to remove and replace those belts. But if you set everthing and test worm movement by hand, just tighten everything down but the motors, then replace the belts, tension them with the motors and you're done. No experiementing with PHD.
I've been wanting to tune my mount for a while, but was concerned without any info focused specifically on the EQ6-R Pro. Thanks for putting this together!
I don't have this mount, but hope to when they finally are available. There simply isn't enough quality disassembly/reassembly vids, so I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into this. Great job!!!
Wow - you really jumped into the deep end on this one Joe! Great video and so glad it worked out and you are now getting some great guiding numbers. I had to do a similar rebuild myself on the used CEM60 I picked up and the effort also paid off. Now I'll expect to see those flawless 15 minutes subs from you!
Hahaha thanks dali! i almost got a CEM 60 instead of this EQ6, it’s a very nice mount! I may try some 15 or even 20 minute subs on one of my upcoming targets as it’s very dim
Thank you very much, I have an EQ6R as I am starting my journey in astrophotography in parallel with my beloved UC22 from obsession telescope, and I know now that when I will be at the point of looking for better performance there is a way to achieve it that is doable, I will not be in the dark ;-). Clear skies
I'm glad you and Glen did these videos as they will help others too. It's funny how you showed the RA spikes; I just rebuilt mine and I too am seeing rms around 0.3 to 0.4, however I started getting Ra spikes last night and it was happening every worm drive cycle so today I stripped it back down, went through the whole process of cleaning up the worm gears and lubrication again in case there was something getting caught. Will try again tonight to see how she goes. I actually put a dial test indicator and videoed the movement before and after my second clean up attempt today and I found it odd how these drives don't move in a smooth motion even after cleaning up. The dial test indicator while moving the mount in sidereal rate was still very jumpy. No matter what I did with adjustments, it never made an improvement to smooth the dial motion better. I was getting down to 0.3 rms with this type of jumpiness but I could only imagine it could go lower if better drives and motors were used. You should do a similar test to see how your actual motor movement is, if you're curious. photos.app.goo.gl/h8h6bAYzJYHNRecE9
Thanks Bill! I think that the worm drive gears aren't perfect and so you get a spike until you clear the imperfection and you have to live with the sloppiness of the rest of the gear. It's unfortunate, but still getting .3 - .4 total rms works for me. With my EdgeHD 8 and 294 I only need to be better than .6 total rms to get great images and I'm well below that. Unfortunately to get better we would need higher end mounts that are pretty much cost prohibitive.
@@JoesAstrophoto I agree. I also have an EQ8 Rh and that has an rms of 0.2, super sharp images with that mount. Just finished shooting the Crescent with my Edge11, in the middle of processing it now. 😎
Thanks for a nice teardown video. Shows really what a high quality product this is. I'm suspicious that the bearings didn't need replacement as the amount of revolutions these turn is so low that no measurable wear has likely occurred. Some shaft play measurements before and after would be useful to see if the brand name bearings actually offered improvement. As you noted, adjusting the worm carriers as a 1st step might be appropriate. Nonetheless, watching the video is informative!
Thanks Ron! Many people just replace the worm carrier bearings but I just figured I’d replace them all while I had it all apart. I agree with you, if you’re getting great guiding no need to change them at all. I went from getting .7 total RMS to getting .3 - .4 total RMS, but I couldn’t guarantee it was from changing the bearings. Could’ve just been the adjustments afterwards.
Joe, thank you so much for doing this video.You provided some additional info that I have not seen on other videos, specially the RA spikes which I am currently having issues with.
Wow Joe. I have to watch this in more detail when I return home next week. I probably should do something similar with my Sirius mount. I'll check Glenn's video as well. Cheers Kurt
I use to constantly tweak my CEM70 but having it under dark skies (Bortle 1) I now know it's not the mount by the skies by me since I was seeing .15 in the dark location. Still an awesome guide and I'm sure it will by handy for years to come to so many.
Great video! This makes me want to do the same for my CGEM DX. The SKF bearings are fantastic, if expensive. Your results are definitely proof of the value of this servicing.
Thanks so much David! It’s a little scary to do at first, but then you realize, it’s really easy to do. The tuning afterwards is harder in my opinion than the actual rebuild. Maybe not harder but I should say more time consuming
@@JoesAstrophoto as a former millwright/ toolmaker I know well that the real trick to any machine service is the tuning process for resumption of operations. I think your video will serve a a good starting point for the adventurous among us.
@@davidaylsworth8964 Oh cool David! Sounds like it's right up your alley. If you do decide to go for it maybe you can report back some tips afterwards as well. I'd appreciate them for sure.
I won't lie it was a little scary, but I'm used to working with these kind of things so I just went for it. I still maintain that the rebuild isn't as hard as the actual tuning afterwards.
You have to watch Synta worm gears... they're not terribly round as gears go so set the worm engagement in a 'tight spot' on the worm gear. You'll then be loose at a 'loose spot' but, like Astro-Physics says, A bit loose is a lot better than a bit tight.
Joe, this is a really great video for learners attempting to take down the EQ-6 mount. Really well done. I have a question though. Aren't there some little brass buttons down in the bottom of the axis lock clamp/lock screw holes--that are really easy to lose? Just wondering. Because I have an EQ-5 (Orion EQ-G) and this mount has those little buttons that will fall out without you knowing it and disappear..... Also, if you could include some detail on working with that encoder, that would be great! And, why did only one axis have and encoder???
Great tutorial Joe 👍I’m still achieving 0.3 with my EQR6-pro but will perform this tune up if it degrades. A question for you - Once you finished tweaking the RA, was there any backlash movement remaining? Or was there no movement at all? I also previously watched Glenn Clouder’s (Astrobloke) tutorial which is also excellent. I have met Glenn a couple of times. He was good enough to drive for two hours to present at my local Astrophotography group, followed by great conversation over a beer at the aptly named pub local pub called ‘The Star’. A great evening! Clear skies, Kevan
i gotta say, that was a great guide! I already bought new bearings (and also a new worm gear because i might have a dent in one of mine -> leads to baaad RA tracking spikes every 4 minutes). Your tutorial made me confident to at least put everything together again :D I will keep you updated on my progress. Two things: 1. you didn't mention at what points to tighten/lose the clutches (i hope it will be self explanatory when i do it :D) 2. you didn't explain at what point you re-tighten the screws of the stepper motors. But i assume it is AFTER you put the belts back on? CS, Marten
Thanks Martin, and good luck on the rebuild! You loosen the clutch for each axis before you can remove the cylinder. You tighten them back up when you are done with each cylinder. If moving or jostling the mount around a lot in transport you’ll want them loose as you normally would. Also correct on the stepper motors. You could also tighten the belts with the set screw by the belts. It’s actually all pretty easy if you are mechanically inclined and it sounds like you are. Good luck!
Hi @@JoesAstrophoto, I finally reworked my EQ6-R. I used your guide as main inspiration, that was a big help! I also documented the process for YT and put a shoutout in the description. Greetings
Wow - great video! Not for the faint of heart ! I was wondering if you had initially tried adjusting the belts and worm gears before doing the rebuild and new bearings ?
Thanks Alros! I checked the belts and they were good. I had no wobble in either axis so I didn’t try to adjust them first, but good point for anyone to try first.
Great video! I almost never manage to guide below 1" RMS (mostly due to problem in RA) with my EQ6R so a few days ago I made a small adjustment to the worm carrier and immediately got 0.94" RMS. Based on your results I suspect it will be possible to improve the result much more by iterating on both RA and DEC. I was thinking of doing a complete rebuild but maybe the most important part is the final tweaking and not replacing the bearings?
Thanks, glad it was helpful! I would start with just tweaking it. With a nice PEC curve and correctly adjusted carriers, I would expect you to get at least .5 total rms with decent seeing. If you are struggling to get below .7 total rms after that, then I would consider a full rebuild. Hope that helps!
Thanks so much for this great video, I wanted to order the parts but cannot find SKF 608RHS, instead the link opens to SKF 608, no HS. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, much appreciated! The RHS code means that the bearing is sealed. You can also use the 2RHS here www.qualitybearingsonline.com/608-2rsh-skf-miniature-deep-groove-8x22x7mm/
@@JoesAstrophotoI just have the Eq8 without encoders, its actually the orion HDX 110. It's getting replaced by the AP 1100AE. The only issue with the eq8 is the backlash, and the RA. If the RA isn't balanced heavy east it tends to stray.
@@astrojw1039 Gotcha, thought you had the EQ8 with the absolute encoders but you’re getting the Astro-Physics with them. It’s a crazy good mount, way above my current level of imaging, but maybe someday. You must be stoked!
@@JoesAstrophoto No worries, I got into astrophotography last August, always had an interest. My main goal is unguided imaging. No OAG's no guide scopes, and no fuss with backlash. When I was watching your video, I wondered, can't you replace those worm gears in that mount with better worm gears? I remember there being a service where they did that, might be worth looking into it, or even go a step further and having better worms machined.
@@astrojw1039 I was looking at some better worm gears, but they are over $300 each and at that point I think I'd go to an EQ8 or CEM120 with the encoders. But for now, I'm guiding at .4 total rms with a mount that I paid $1,350 for on sale and have $140 worth of bearings in, so I really can't complain lol.
I was very interested in getting a Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro Mount. I've read many good reviews, but now I'm seeing these rebuilding videos tightening screws and putting in better bearings. You'd think the manufacturer would use quality components from the get go, and properly check for play and tighten things to specs before leaving the factory. Definitely having second thoughts about buying this mount now. I do NOT want to rebuild it.....
I agree with you Bill, I would love to see them use quality materials and better quality control, but they are mass produced at mass production prices. You can pay more for higher quality mounts, but overall the EQ6 is probably still one of the best mounts you can get for the money by far. There are some great quality options out there like Losmandy and Paramount.
Hey John, it’s only a couple years old. It didn’t really need maintenance but I was struggling to get under .6 total rms on good nights, so I thought I’d see if new bearings would help. It seems they did. Plus a couple of the stock shaft bearing had leaking seals so I’m glad I did as there would have been issues down the line anyway.
You have to run PEC if you want small errors. It makes no sense at all to turn it off. You also are letting your backlash error float, which is not a good thing. The gears need to be loaded so PEC can work correctly.
Thanks darkwood, I am running PEC on it now and have all the kinks worked out. I'm getting around .35 total rms most good seeing nights. Great tips, much appreciated!
hi can u help me ? last night i tried to align the polar scope because it was out of align with center of the polar scope and i accidentally over tight the screw and it fell into the polar scope and when ever i rotate the mount the reticle keeps falling down so can i fix that or just i have to buy a new polar scope ?
I can try and help, I’m not completely understanding what you mean. At 11:50 in the video I start to remove the polar scope. Are you saying that one of the grub screws on the ring fell out? or are you saying that after removing the polar scope from the mount itself you lost a screw? I’ve never taken apart the actual polar scope after removing it before, I’m not sure if it’s sealed or not, but to be honest, I wouldn’t buy a new one, I would use some more accurate methods to polar align. NINA is free and has the 3 point polar alignment, Sharpcap has it for a very small cost and if you use ASIAIR, it also has one.
Hi Joe, Wow this is crazy! Good as to you on attempting this on your own. Do you know if there's a company that provides this kind of service to the public? I would love to have my EQ6R rebuilt, but I do not want to even attempt on my own.
Thanks Steve, it can be a daunting undertaking for sure. I’ve heard of companies that do but have no clue on who they are or if they are any good unfortunately.
@@JoesAstrophoto Thanks Joe. Hey I was curious if you would be willing to rebuild my EQ6R pro? You could even post a video about it as well. Let me know if you would be willing to do it. I really would like to get it done I just am very uncomfortable with taking it apart and messing something up.
Thanks, I’m honored you would ask Steve, but I have no good way to receive/ship that kind of weight from where I live. Additionally, I have no good way to adjust the gear meshing once rebuilt other than trial and error while guiding and imagining. Was your mount acting up or were you just wanting to eek out a little better guiding performance?
@@JoesAstrophoto ok, no problem thanks anyway. Yes I am having issues with clicking sounds and elongated stars. Something is definitely messed up with it. Don't even know where to start.
The SKF 608RHS bearing doesn't come up as an option on the website you listed. Can you confirm exactly which bearing it is, and maybe link it here? Thanks.
I get the small bearings on the worm screws, maybe, but those big bearings... there's no way they'd get worn out in this application. The weight capacity and max cycles can't be reached in an application like this. What is it? 20kg across two bearings, slowly moving over a short distance, every now and then? They use bearings that size on motorbike wheels... lol
Thanks, I agree about wearing them out, and many just replace the worm gear bearings and that’s fine, but I figured, I have this all apart, might as well replace the no named bearings with named bearings I trust for about $40.
Great video joe and good heads up about time it takes to tuning the axis, I didn’t factor that in. How long did you leave calibration on for to check backlash ?
While I was checking adjustments I would only let it run 2 minutes. Once I had it dialed in where I thought it should be I’d run it a full worm cycle (8 minutes). I’m talking about the guide assistant. The calibration would just run it’s course and I did one before and after the guide assistant after I was sure it was where I wanted it.
@@JoesAstrophoto thanks joe, between yourself and Glenn I’ve learned so much. Really appreciate for taken the time for replying and the very informative videos
I hope you see this, but after all this was done could you balance the mount by letting it go and it would move like a balance? And did it do that from the factory before all this? I ask because mine has to be majorly out of balance before it will move, at least in the RA axis. The dec works like a balance. On the RA I have to just toss the counter weight bar back and forth to see if it's balanced. That doesn't work that well.
Hi Michael, it was much better after I rebuilt it than it was before, but it wasn't as good as I was hoping. I was really hoping that it would be extremely sensitive to the point that if I put a coin on one side it would make a difference and it's not that good, but much better than factory. Hope that helps!
@@JoesAstrophoto yes it does. I'm a bit skweemish about pulling apart my mount. I did the AVX and I didn't get very far but it's worse than original. My EQ6R Pro is getting worse on guides. Sometimes it's 0.49 Total RMS, then for no explanation it goes to over 1.0 for a while. PEC training makes a McDonald's 'M', not the sine wave. It must be messed up somewhere.
@@Thunder_Dome45 Is there any slop in either axis? If you try and move either access can you feel some backlash? If so you can try adjusting it like I show in the video. The “M” sine wave could be a number of things. While recording, it should be picking up the “noise” in the worm gear, but will also pick up other “noise” like bearings or binding, etc. I’ll try and put out a video on identifying these.
@@JoesAstrophoto when I first got it, if you giggled the mounting plate there was some rattling in the mount. I tightened it by using a video from the lazy geek video presenter. That got rid of the rattle, and it stopped phd warning there was backlash. There didn't seem to be any binding by noise, but maybe there is a little.
@@JoesAstrophoto also I tried posting a link to an image of the pec recording but you can't do that on TH-cam because of spammers. I posted in the past on Facebook group Astrophotography for Beginners, if you're a member.
Hey Joe, a question, on front of your ota, on the dovetail plate, is that a ADM clamp with that small weight ? Great interesting video by the way, last week I saw Glenn's video, looks like I have to do this myself also
Interesting rebuild, however replacing the bearing grease, making sure nothing is binding or too tight, adjusting the backsplash and belt tensions make allot more sense then replacing the bearings. Bearings shouldn’t be replaced unless they have actually failed. If they turn fine, no jumping, no grinding, no sticking, then just re-grease them. Glad this worked out for you, just seems like allot of unnecessary work and expense to me, just saying?
Hi Woody, good points. I was mostly doing it to demonstrate the rebuild process for anyone looking to see how to do it. To me, at the time, the expense of name brand bearings wasn't much at all. I haven't priced them lately. My mind set is, if you are going to strip it apart why not replace the cheap bearings with nice bearings? I'm glad I did this, because I found corrosion building up in the worm gear assemblies as well as a couple "crunchy" feeling bearings. Mostly though, the video is just here to help people with rebuilding old EQ6 mounts in case they need to.
What was the temperature range and brand of the lube you used on the bearings? You will need a good "low temp" grade that will not "stiffen up" in extreme cold if you do any observing in temperatures below freezing (unless you are a fair weather only astronomer). I use LUBRIPLATE Low Temp - with a working range from -60°F to 250°F.
Thanks Shadow Chaser. I used SuperLube, a synthetic grease. The temp range is -45 to 450F. I won't image below -5f or above 90f as it will be too hard to keep the camera sensor temp stable with the TEC cooler.
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Is it known what kind of temperature rating the original grease from the factory has? My eq6r has only been used a few months but the average temperature at my location is below freezing for most of my imaging season, so I'm tempted to change the grease.
Hi Xin, I was trying to find the model or a place that sells the worm gears, but haven’t had any luck. I didn’t replace the worm gear itself just all the bearings. I have links to the bearings in the description.
Thanks, I'm getting about 2-3mm of play on both belts. Having problems with the EQ6-R but I think now belts are not the issue. Seems like the RA is binding here and there. Maybe the black RA ring, the one you loosened with the strap wrench, is too tight. Sound reasonable?
Hey Doug, from my experience (not that its extensive or anything) RA binding is simply fixed by loosening the RA worm gear. I covered it in the video, but here the site that I used as reference while doing that video. It's got a good diagram that may help. www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby/help/rebuilding-the-skywatcher-eq6orion-atlas-mount/eq6-worm-alignment/
@@JoesAstrophoto I think you are right generally. In my case I had water damage and the RA shaft was binding. Loosening the black RA ring from the factory tightening and then re-tightening by hand made the difference for me.
I don't see any SKF branded 6008 bearing with designation, RHS. Please show link. Thanks!! There are a bazillion SKF 6008xxx bearings from $12 to $200+....
Replacing the bearings seems rather pointless unless the originals were poorly made. Those types of bearing are designed to spin at hundreds of RPM under much higher loads for years without failure. In a telescope, at the extremely low rotation rates employed, they should last forever.
I completely agree, and unfortunately, the stock bearings were poorly made, at least in my opinion. After replacing them, I do expect them to last longer than I'll be alive. I went from .5 - .8 total RMS to .3 - .6 total RMS after rebuilding. This could also be due to replacing all the lube, removing grease from where it didn't belong. Removing some corrosion on one of the worm drives, etc.
Just finished rebuilding my EQ-G with the help from your video. It was a great help! When adjusting the worm gear to eliminate backlash, I used this trick. Back out the adjusting set screws quite a bit. Set the mount so the worm gear is close to vertical and turn the shaft so the worm gear carrier is on top. Loosen the carrier bolts just until the carrier moves easily. At this point you have gravity pushing the worm gear drive together. "Tighten the set screw on the worm gear side until it just touches the stop. Snug the carrier bolts so you have some friction between the carrier and the mount body. Now snug the bottom set screw against its stop. Now you are VERY close to where you want to be to eliminate all backlash. You may still need to make some final adjustments, but you easily get to an excellent starting point. Don't forget the all important test for binding (360+ degrees in both directions), then the final tightening of the carrier bolts and then testing again.
You deserve a gold medal for your outstanding video of this meticulous rebuild. Great contribution to the astrophotography community.
Thanks for the kinds words Tribble! Very much appreciated!
Absolutely a top guide Joe and thank you for the shout out. You did a great job showing all the steps needed to complete this and showed some different ways and techniques which is great as people can choose which suits them best.
So glad you were able to get it all dialled in even though it can take a while (clouds do not help)
Really well done on a great video.
Thanks so much Glenn! Means a lot coming from you, you’re practically an EQ mount engineer.
I appreciate the efforts going into documenting this process and it will be a benefit for all of us! Its a great contribution for the astro community . Clear skies
Thanks so much Jason, I really appreciate the nice comment!
Holy WOWWW. If I were to try to do this, I would most likely end up with two separate mounts ... due to not putting all the parts back in place. You are certainly more mechanically inclined than me. Well done Joe. At least I learned what is going on inside the mount when it is tracking.
Thanks Pat! I do these sorts of things a lot, but if it wasn't for Glenn doing it first, I never would have attempted it lol. Had to make sure he didn't break his first. If you're not mechanically inclined I would say do not attempt it.
On tweaking the worm mesh at the end, Ive found that if you just remove the motor drive belt and zero the backlash and minimize the stiction all in one setting, you will save a bunch of time trying to set it, crank it all back up and do some guiding to see if its set right. Believe me, compared to other mounts, this mount is very easy to remove and replace those belts. But if you set everthing and test worm movement by hand, just tighten everything down but the motors, then replace the belts, tension them with the motors and you're done. No experiementing with PHD.
That sounds great! Thanks for leaving this comment. If I ever have to do this again, I will definitely try that approach.
I just bought a bunch of bearings using the link you provided 😉
Cool Ha! Good luck in your rebuild. It makes a pretty big difference in overall guiding, at least it did for me.
I've been wanting to tune my mount for a while, but was concerned without any info focused specifically on the EQ6-R Pro. Thanks for putting this together!
Thanks Eric, I’m glad it was useful!
I don't have this mount, but hope to when they finally are available. There simply isn't enough quality disassembly/reassembly vids, so I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into this. Great job!!!
Thanks Gary, it’s a really good mount for the money.
Great video from you and Glenn regarding stripping down the EQ6. Thanks a lot :)
Thanks so much Dale! I hope it helps you!
Wow - you really jumped into the deep end on this one Joe! Great video and so glad it worked out and you are now getting some great guiding numbers. I had to do a similar rebuild myself on the used CEM60 I picked up and the effort also paid off.
Now I'll expect to see those flawless 15 minutes subs from you!
Hahaha thanks dali! i almost got a CEM 60 instead of this EQ6, it’s a very nice mount! I may try some 15 or even 20 minute subs on one of my upcoming targets as it’s very dim
Thank you very much, I have an EQ6R as I am starting my journey in astrophotography in parallel with my beloved UC22 from obsession telescope, and I know now that when I will be at the point of looking for better performance there is a way to achieve it that is doable, I will not be in the dark ;-). Clear skies
Thanks Frederic!
I'm glad you and Glen did these videos as they will help others too. It's funny how you showed the RA spikes; I just rebuilt mine and I too am seeing rms around 0.3 to 0.4, however I started getting Ra spikes last night and it was happening every worm drive cycle so today I stripped it back down, went through the whole process of cleaning up the worm gears and lubrication again in case there was something getting caught. Will try again tonight to see how she goes. I actually put a dial test indicator and videoed the movement before and after my second clean up attempt today and I found it odd how these drives don't move in a smooth motion even after cleaning up. The dial test indicator while moving the mount in sidereal rate was still very jumpy. No matter what I did with adjustments, it never made an improvement to smooth the dial motion better. I was getting down to 0.3 rms with this type of jumpiness but I could only imagine it could go lower if better drives and motors were used. You should do a similar test to see how your actual motor movement is, if you're curious.
photos.app.goo.gl/h8h6bAYzJYHNRecE9
Thanks Bill! I think that the worm drive gears aren't perfect and so you get a spike until you clear the imperfection and you have to live with the sloppiness of the rest of the gear. It's unfortunate, but still getting .3 - .4 total rms works for me. With my EdgeHD 8 and 294 I only need to be better than .6 total rms to get great images and I'm well below that. Unfortunately to get better we would need higher end mounts that are pretty much cost prohibitive.
@@JoesAstrophoto I agree. I also have an EQ8 Rh and that has an rms of 0.2, super sharp images with that mount. Just finished shooting the Crescent with my Edge11, in the middle of processing it now. 😎
@@billblanshan3021 That’s awesome, that’s like a dream mount for me!
Thanks for a nice teardown video. Shows really what a high quality product this is. I'm suspicious that the bearings didn't need replacement as the amount of revolutions these turn is so low that no measurable wear has likely occurred. Some shaft play measurements before and after would be useful to see if the brand name bearings actually offered improvement. As you noted, adjusting the worm carriers as a 1st step might be appropriate. Nonetheless, watching the video is informative!
Thanks Ron! Many people just replace the worm carrier bearings but I just figured I’d replace them all while I had it all apart. I agree with you, if you’re getting great guiding no need to change them at all. I went from getting .7 total RMS to getting .3 - .4 total RMS, but I couldn’t guarantee it was from changing the bearings. Could’ve just been the adjustments afterwards.
Joe, thank you so much for doing this video.You provided some additional info that I have not seen on other videos, specially the RA spikes which I am currently having issues with.
Thanks Marcelo, I’m glad it was helpful! Probably need to back off that RA worm gear just a touch.
Nice results Joe. Between yours and Glenn's videos, I should be good if I ever have to tackle this. Good to see you got solid results.
Thanks James! It was really Glenn who inspired me to do it as well, but I'm very happy with the results.
Thanks Joe. You and Glenn have me ready to give this a go! Great job!
Thanks Gregory! It takes awhile to get it tuned back again, but it’s worth it in my opinion.
Great work, thank you for taking the time to make a video about this!
Thanks Vast! Glad it helps out!
Wow Joe. I have to watch this in more detail when I return home next week. I probably should do something similar with my Sirius mount. I'll check Glenn's video as well. Cheers Kurt
Thanks Kurt, that would be a cool video to watch as well if you do it.
I use to constantly tweak my CEM70 but having it under dark skies (Bortle 1) I now know it's not the mount by the skies by me since I was seeing .15 in the dark location. Still an awesome guide and I'm sure it will by handy for years to come to so many.
Thanks Starfire, much appreciated!
Joe, what a lot patience you have. incredible👌
Thanks Giovanni! It took a bit of time.
Great video! This makes me want to do the same for my CGEM DX. The SKF bearings are fantastic, if expensive. Your results are definitely proof of the value of this servicing.
Thanks so much David! It’s a little scary to do at first, but then you realize, it’s really easy to do. The tuning afterwards is harder in my opinion than the actual rebuild. Maybe not harder but I should say more time consuming
@@JoesAstrophoto as a former millwright/ toolmaker I know well that the real trick to any machine service is the tuning process for resumption of operations. I think your video will serve a a good starting point for the adventurous among us.
@@davidaylsworth8964 Oh cool David! Sounds like it's right up your alley. If you do decide to go for it maybe you can report back some tips afterwards as well. I'd appreciate them for sure.
Looks like it was quite a big job but well worth it looking at those guiding numbers at the end.
Thanks Logan, I'm thrilled with the results so far!
You are so brave. Great work. My mount would be ground to a pulp if I tried this.
I won't lie it was a little scary, but I'm used to working with these kind of things so I just went for it. I still maintain that the rebuild isn't as hard as the actual tuning afterwards.
You have to watch Synta worm gears... they're not terribly round as gears go so set the worm engagement in a 'tight spot' on the worm gear. You'll then be loose at a 'loose spot' but, like Astro-Physics says, A bit loose is a lot better than a bit tight.
Thanks Rick, good advice. I wish I could just get an AP and skip the synta mounts all together…one day.
Thanks quite comprehensive, very helpful.
Thanks so much Roger! I'm glad it was helpful!
@@JoesAstrophoto I haven't taken the plunge yet, but now I know which bearings and where to get them.
Joe, this is a really great video for learners attempting to take down the EQ-6 mount. Really well done. I have a question though. Aren't there some little brass buttons down in the bottom of the axis lock clamp/lock screw holes--that are really easy to lose? Just wondering. Because I have an EQ-5 (Orion EQ-G) and this mount has those little buttons that will fall out without you knowing it and disappear..... Also, if you could include some detail on working with that encoder, that would be great! And, why did only one axis have and encoder???
Great tutorial Joe 👍I’m still achieving 0.3 with my EQR6-pro but will perform this tune up if it degrades. A question for you - Once you finished tweaking the RA, was there any backlash movement remaining? Or was there no movement at all?
I also previously watched Glenn Clouder’s (Astrobloke) tutorial which is also excellent. I have met Glenn a couple of times. He was good enough to drive for two hours to present at my local Astrophotography group, followed by great conversation over a beer at the aptly named pub local pub called ‘The Star’. A great evening! Clear skies, Kevan
i gotta say, that was a great guide! I already bought new bearings (and also a new worm gear because i might have a dent in one of mine -> leads to baaad RA tracking spikes every 4 minutes). Your tutorial made me confident to at least put everything together again :D I will keep you updated on my progress.
Two things: 1. you didn't mention at what points to tighten/lose the clutches (i hope it will be self explanatory when i do it :D)
2. you didn't explain at what point you re-tighten the screws of the stepper motors. But i assume it is AFTER you put the belts back on?
CS, Marten
Thanks Martin, and good luck on the rebuild! You loosen the clutch for each axis before you can remove the cylinder. You tighten them back up when you are done with each cylinder. If moving or jostling the mount around a lot in transport you’ll want them loose as you normally would. Also correct on the stepper motors. You could also tighten the belts with the set screw by the belts. It’s actually all pretty easy if you are mechanically inclined and it sounds like you are. Good luck!
Hi @@JoesAstrophoto, I finally reworked my EQ6-R. I used your guide as main inspiration, that was a big help! I also documented the process for YT and put a shoutout in the description. Greetings
Wow - great video! Not for the faint of heart ! I was wondering if you had initially tried adjusting the belts and worm gears before doing the rebuild and new bearings ?
Thanks Alros! I checked the belts and they were good. I had no wobble in either axis so I didn’t try to adjust them first, but good point for anyone to try first.
Great video! I almost never manage to guide below 1" RMS (mostly due to problem in RA) with my EQ6R so a few days ago I made a small adjustment to the worm carrier and immediately got 0.94" RMS. Based on your results I suspect it will be possible to improve the result much more by iterating on both RA and DEC. I was thinking of doing a complete rebuild but maybe the most important part is the final tweaking and not replacing the bearings?
Thanks, glad it was helpful! I would start with just tweaking it. With a nice PEC curve and correctly adjusted carriers, I would expect you to get at least .5 total rms with decent seeing. If you are struggling to get below .7 total rms after that, then I would consider a full rebuild. Hope that helps!
Thanks so much for this great video, I wanted to order the parts but cannot find SKF 608RHS, instead the link opens to SKF 608, no HS. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, much appreciated! The RHS code means that the bearing is sealed. You can also use the 2RHS here www.qualitybearingsonline.com/608-2rsh-skf-miniature-deep-groove-8x22x7mm/
I am fixing my Eq8 with an AP 1100AE ;). But seriously, those EQ6R's are so tunable, its great.
That's awesome Outraged! The EQ8 is a beast and with those encoders, very nice!
@@JoesAstrophotoI just have the Eq8 without encoders, its actually the orion HDX 110. It's getting replaced by the AP 1100AE. The only issue with the eq8 is the backlash, and the RA. If the RA isn't balanced heavy east it tends to stray.
@@astrojw1039 Gotcha, thought you had the EQ8 with the absolute encoders but you’re getting the Astro-Physics with them. It’s a crazy good mount, way above my current level of imaging, but maybe someday. You must be stoked!
@@JoesAstrophoto No worries, I got into astrophotography last August, always had an interest. My main goal is unguided imaging. No OAG's no guide scopes, and no fuss with backlash. When I was watching your video, I wondered, can't you replace those worm gears in that mount with better worm gears? I remember there being a service where they did that, might be worth looking into it, or even go a step further and having better worms machined.
@@astrojw1039 I was looking at some better worm gears, but they are over $300 each and at that point I think I'd go to an EQ8 or CEM120 with the encoders. But for now, I'm guiding at .4 total rms with a mount that I paid $1,350 for on sale and have $140 worth of bearings in, so I really can't complain lol.
I was very interested in getting a Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro Mount. I've read many good reviews, but now I'm seeing these rebuilding videos tightening screws and putting in better bearings. You'd think the manufacturer would use quality components from the get go, and properly check for play and tighten things to specs before leaving the factory. Definitely having second thoughts about buying this mount now. I do NOT want to rebuild it.....
I agree with you Bill, I would love to see them use quality materials and better quality control, but they are mass produced at mass production prices. You can pay more for higher quality mounts, but overall the EQ6 is probably still one of the best mounts you can get for the money by far. There are some great quality options out there like Losmandy and Paramount.
Hey Joe just curious how long have you had this mount.
Hey John, it’s only a couple years old. It didn’t really need maintenance but I was struggling to get under .6 total rms on good nights, so I thought I’d see if new bearings would help. It seems they did. Plus a couple of the stock shaft bearing had leaking seals so I’m glad I did as there would have been issues down the line anyway.
You have to run PEC if you want small errors. It makes no sense at all to turn it off. You also are letting your backlash error float, which is not a good thing. The gears need to be loaded so PEC can work correctly.
Thanks darkwood, I am running PEC on it now and have all the kinks worked out. I'm getting around .35 total rms most good seeing nights. Great tips, much appreciated!
sorry what is PEC ? @@JoesAstrophoto
hi can u help me ?
last night i tried to align the polar scope because it was out of align with center of the polar scope and i accidentally over tight the screw and it fell into the polar scope and when ever i rotate the mount the reticle keeps falling down so can i fix that or just i have to buy a new polar scope ?
I can try and help, I’m not completely understanding what you mean. At 11:50 in the video I start to remove the polar scope. Are you saying that one of the grub screws on the ring fell out? or are you saying that after removing the polar scope from the mount itself you lost a screw? I’ve never taken apart the actual polar scope after removing it before, I’m not sure if it’s sealed or not, but to be honest, I wouldn’t buy a new one, I would use some more accurate methods to polar align. NINA is free and has the 3 point polar alignment, Sharpcap has it for a very small cost and if you use ASIAIR, it also has one.
Hey Joe, great video. Do you have a list of part numbers and how many bearings are required please to rebuild please?
Hi Simon, I put the parts in the description, hope that helps!
Do you know anywhere in the states you can get a new motherboard for these?
Hi Adam, I really don't. I think you're best option is to contact SkyWatcher and see if you can order one separately.
Hi Joe, Wow this is crazy! Good as to you on attempting this on your own. Do you know if there's a company that provides this kind of service to the public? I would love to have my EQ6R rebuilt, but I do not want to even attempt on my own.
Thanks Steve, it can be a daunting undertaking for sure. I’ve heard of companies that do but have no clue on who they are or if they are any good unfortunately.
@@JoesAstrophoto Thanks Joe. Hey I was curious if you would be willing to rebuild my EQ6R pro? You could even post a video about it as well. Let me know if you would be willing to do it. I really would like to get it done I just am very uncomfortable with taking it apart and messing something up.
Thanks, I’m honored you would ask Steve, but I have no good way to receive/ship that kind of weight from where I live. Additionally, I have no good way to adjust the gear meshing once rebuilt other than trial and error while guiding and imagining. Was your mount acting up or were you just wanting to eek out a little better guiding performance?
@@JoesAstrophoto ok, no problem thanks anyway. Yes I am having issues with clicking sounds and elongated stars. Something is definitely messed up with it. Don't even know where to start.
The SKF 608RHS bearing doesn't come up as an option on the website you listed. Can you confirm exactly which bearing it is, and maybe link it here? Thanks.
Hi Chris, give this link a try. www.qualitybearingsonline.com/608-2rsh-skf-miniature-deep-groove-8x22x7mm/
Hope this helps!
@@JoesAstrophoto Yes, thanks!
I get the small bearings on the worm screws, maybe, but those big bearings... there's no way they'd get worn out in this application. The weight capacity and max cycles can't be reached in an application like this. What is it? 20kg across two bearings, slowly moving over a short distance, every now and then? They use bearings that size on motorbike wheels... lol
Thanks, I agree about wearing them out, and many just replace the worm gear bearings and that’s fine, but I figured, I have this all apart, might as well replace the no named bearings with named bearings I trust for about $40.
Great video joe and good heads up about time it takes to tuning the axis, I didn’t factor that in. How long did you leave calibration on for to check backlash ?
While I was checking adjustments I would only let it run 2 minutes. Once I had it dialed in where I thought it should be I’d run it a full worm cycle (8 minutes). I’m talking about the guide assistant. The calibration would just run it’s course and I did one before and after the guide assistant after I was sure it was where I wanted it.
@@JoesAstrophoto thanks joe, between yourself and Glenn I’ve learned so much. Really appreciate for taken the time for replying and the very informative videos
38:00 when it binds the belt gets stretched and that registers as backlash
Thanks Andy! That makes sense as to why PHD2 registers as such when binding just slightly.
I hope you see this, but after all this was done could you balance the mount by letting it go and it would move like a balance? And did it do that from the factory before all this? I ask because mine has to be majorly out of balance before it will move, at least in the RA axis. The dec works like a balance. On the RA I have to just toss the counter weight bar back and forth to see if it's balanced. That doesn't work that well.
Hi Michael, it was much better after I rebuilt it than it was before, but it wasn't as good as I was hoping. I was really hoping that it would be extremely sensitive to the point that if I put a coin on one side it would make a difference and it's not that good, but much better than factory. Hope that helps!
@@JoesAstrophoto yes it does. I'm a bit skweemish about pulling apart my mount. I did the AVX and I didn't get very far but it's worse than original. My EQ6R Pro is getting worse on guides. Sometimes it's 0.49 Total RMS, then for no explanation it goes to over 1.0 for a while. PEC training makes a McDonald's 'M', not the sine wave. It must be messed up somewhere.
@@Thunder_Dome45 Is there any slop in either axis? If you try and move either access can you feel some backlash? If so you can try adjusting it like I show in the video. The “M” sine wave could be a number of things. While recording, it should be picking up the “noise” in the worm gear, but will also pick up other “noise” like bearings or binding, etc. I’ll try and put out a video on identifying these.
@@JoesAstrophoto when I first got it, if you giggled the mounting plate there was some rattling in the mount. I tightened it by using a video from the lazy geek video presenter. That got rid of the rattle, and it stopped phd warning there was backlash. There didn't seem to be any binding by noise, but maybe there is a little.
@@JoesAstrophoto also I tried posting a link to an image of the pec recording but you can't do that on TH-cam because of spammers. I posted in the past on Facebook group Astrophotography for Beginners, if you're a member.
Hey Joe, a question, on front of your ota, on the dovetail plate, is that a ADM clamp with that small weight ?
Great interesting video by the way, last week I saw Glenn's video, looks like I have to do this myself also
Hi Siegfried, it’s a Losmandy, but ADM makes one almost identical. I ordered the Losmandy because they were in stock at the time.
@@JoesAstrophoto Thanks Joe
Interesting rebuild, however replacing the bearing grease, making sure nothing is binding or too tight, adjusting the backsplash and belt tensions make allot more sense then replacing the bearings. Bearings shouldn’t be replaced unless they have actually failed. If they turn fine, no jumping, no grinding, no sticking, then just re-grease them. Glad this worked out for you, just seems like allot of unnecessary work and expense to me, just saying?
Hi Woody, good points. I was mostly doing it to demonstrate the rebuild process for anyone looking to see how to do it. To me, at the time, the expense of name brand bearings wasn't much at all. I haven't priced them lately. My mind set is, if you are going to strip it apart why not replace the cheap bearings with nice bearings? I'm glad I did this, because I found corrosion building up in the worm gear assemblies as well as a couple "crunchy" feeling bearings. Mostly though, the video is just here to help people with rebuilding old EQ6 mounts in case they need to.
What was the temperature range and brand of the lube you used on the bearings? You will need a good "low temp" grade that will not "stiffen up" in extreme cold if you do any observing in temperatures below freezing (unless you are a fair weather only astronomer). I use LUBRIPLATE Low Temp - with a working range from -60°F to 250°F.
Thanks Shadow Chaser. I used SuperLube, a synthetic grease. The temp range is -45 to 450F. I won't image below -5f or above 90f as it will be too hard to keep the camera sensor temp stable with the TEC cooler.
Is it known what kind of temperature rating the original grease from the factory has? My eq6r has only been used a few months but the average temperature at my location is below freezing for most of my imaging season, so I'm tempted to change the grease.
Hello Joe, what is the model of the worm gear? and where can i buy it? I want to change worm gear because mine seems to be broken...
Hi Xin, I was trying to find the model or a place that sells the worm gears, but haven’t had any luck. I didn’t replace the worm gear itself just all the bearings. I have links to the bearings in the description.
@@JoesAstrophoto OK Joe,thank you anyway.
You went quickly when you tested the tension on the belts, how much flex is OK?
Hi Doug, it's been so long, I honestly don't remember without going back through my notes. I believe I tensioned between 2 - 4 mm of play.
Thanks, I'm getting about 2-3mm of play on both belts. Having problems with the EQ6-R but I think now belts are not the issue. Seems like the RA is binding here and there. Maybe the black RA ring, the one you loosened with the strap wrench, is too tight. Sound reasonable?
Hey Doug, from my experience (not that its extensive or anything) RA binding is simply fixed by loosening the RA worm gear. I covered it in the video, but here the site that I used as reference while doing that video. It's got a good diagram that may help. www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby/help/rebuilding-the-skywatcher-eq6orion-atlas-mount/eq6-worm-alignment/
@@JoesAstrophoto I think you are right generally. In my case I had water damage and the RA shaft was binding. Loosening the black RA ring from the factory tightening and then re-tightening by hand made the difference for me.
I don't see any SKF branded 6008 bearing with designation, RHS. Please show link. Thanks!! There are a bazillion SKF 6008xxx bearings from $12 to $200+....
Try this www.qualitybearingsonline.com/6008-2rs-skf-deep-groove-bearing-40-x-68-x-15mm/. Hope that helps!
you have replaced all the original bearings?
I did yes, many people only replace the carrier bearings, but I just decided that if I was going to have it apart I would just replace them all.
RA and DEC worm gear diameter?
Hi Tien, I’m sorry, I didn’t measure it when it was all apart.
Replacing the bearings seems rather pointless unless the originals were poorly made. Those types of bearing are designed to spin at hundreds of RPM under much higher loads for years without failure. In a telescope, at the extremely low rotation rates employed, they should last forever.
I completely agree, and unfortunately, the stock bearings were poorly made, at least in my opinion. After replacing them, I do expect them to last longer than I'll be alive. I went from .5 - .8 total RMS to .3 - .6 total RMS after rebuilding. This could also be due to replacing all the lube, removing grease from where it didn't belong. Removing some corrosion on one of the worm drives, etc.
You lost me at "rebuild" 😂.
Hahahaha, too funny!