So, I think it's important to separate Singed the Man vs Singed the Ide... I mean set of game mechanics. If they were to release a character based on singed's flavor text, the character he is supposed to be, he would be the support August is describing and I agree that's a good fit for him. Even without Arcane's version of the character, dude's the main villain in like 20% of champions' backstories, runeterra's leading war crime salesman and scheming mad scientist, but not the kind who just gets in there with his own two hands. If they were going to release a champion whose whole gimmick is that he cropdusts your team and throws people then that's a different problem. I imagine they'd probably nerf the poison damage to champions but make it stack something that singed would have to cash out with a different ability that would require him to interact with his opponent in a way they can counter. Probably with a reset if you pop X number of poison stacks, I dunno. Riot has been moving away from champions that can get value while avoiding interactions (Yuumi aside) for a long time, it's why we don't get the crazy long-range artillery mages we used to get. Naturally this would annoy singed mains, to whom part of the fun is that they're annoying and uninteractable.
Ive always thought that singed should be split into 2 characters with one being his gameplay as it is now and another being the actual character singed as you would imagine him in arcane, heck you could maybe make him a toplane single unit summoner with the axolotl thing being the one running around spreading gas whilst he provides support to it, kinda like a single unit support bruiser in one but designed to only support his summon with the clear weakness being if the axolotl front line is down then hes at his most vulnerable
The thing is that's not true, what's really awesome about Singed is that he's a completely scuffed mad geniuous and constantly gets in there with his bare hands, even in the show he went in person to hunt that 2 headed wolf and when testing he tests it himself by making it chase him. Lore wise it fits perfectly, he does everything himself, he doesn't have goons or helpers and he's not a faction, he joins whoever gives him more opportunities but he's a 1 man show and him running around with a wooden shield and drugging himself on his own power medicine is perfect he is not a support or a ranged character in any sense, he's clearly not that kind of guy lore wise.
Have to side with the rat fans on this one. Twitch W and E are seriously not abilities. His R bullets can miss which can ruin a fight seemingly by chance, when it is supposed to be his highest power tool (his Q sets it up). It's more than just being weak.
Twich, Sivir and Vayne (technically) are the prime base ADC, Q for extra damage, 2 in between habilityes with soe weird basic effect and an R that amplifies something. I would say Sivir lacks harder than twich, but at the end she can bring something useful even when behind.
@@CasualLeague sivir has the best wave clear in the game, counters some specific ad and support champions while sacrificing early strength & auto range vayne counters ezreal, big tanks, does tons of true damage and has tons of mobility and scaling while sacrificing wave clear and range twitch has bad wave clear (W lol), bad range early, bad trading, bad scaling, low damage, his E is an extra auto attack, and he isn't even especially good into any champions, only thematically sometimes against weak engage yet tanky comps (extremely rare). The only thing he has going for him is invisibility cheese. This is not fun for the person playing as, or against, twitch.
The final bit on dota2 vs league design is very interesting and I think translates similarly into other genres in street fighter or tekken, characters play by very similar rules and then you look over at guilty gear and there's a character that plays like an RTS, someone who can store and repeat moves and someone who can freely whack pool balls around like a physics game
Singed giving the insanity potion to other character, making them go insane fast to him like Warwick when he's at low HP would be one of his abilities probably, a reposition teammates character Also, twitch is horrible, the only time you can make him viable is when he appears out of nowhere and oneshots your team with almost no counterplay, the problem being it has to do what Aphelios do without being invisible or Samira being far His concept is not healthy for an ADC where burst is trying to be avoided and counterplay being the main focuse today, he has to be kept out of the meta or be reworked to a healthier playstyle
I don’t think Twitch being weak is what the chatter meant. Twitch Ultimate and Q are for an Adc while his Passive, W and E are an ap champion. And buffing him out of that is quite difficult since his Q makes him easily break the game. I heard Twitch has really bad WR rn yet when I play with my friend they consistently get hyper fed and carry the game specifically on Twitch. They also play both Ad and ap twitch and say that they feel incredibly weak while playing ad even if winning. Their reason is that Twitch only has his Q and R since passive deals almost no damage, W is nice but not great and E deals the damage of maybe 2 autos. Rs projectiles being dodgable also doesn’t make it better and unlike other Adcs with bad spells like Jinx for example, Twitch only gets the 6 second window of his R to safely fight before having to go really close. due to that he fails at having great uptime and plays around burst which then leads them to ap. Conclusion: Twitch is a bad teamfighter preferring to play for picks, contradicting the Adc playstyle and making his ap build feel better at accomplishing that. Twitchs kits plays 2 sides which is cool on a character where it works but not when the other half of your kit feels useless when playing the first. Twitchs Q allows him to easily snowball in low elo and uncoordinated games while not providing a lot outside. I know low elo stompers are an ok thing to have but Twitch isn’t actually a champion you see in lower elos.
The main concept about Twitch is that he should enter fights by flanking with his Q, with full enemy team focusing your frontline and you can shoot deliberately with his ult. Pretty easy plan, the problems start when adc items are trash and 2 tanks with 1 and half armor item can tank entire 6 seconds of Twitch ult and go down to probably 50% hp, and the rest of the kit does basically nothing; also honorable mention for his ult to make autos weaker by being dodgeable is crazy in 2025
Regardless of whether Twitch needs changes or not, August is right. People online usually really overestimate the amount of changes a champion needs. Reddit theorycraft reworks for champions are usually a massive set of extreme nerfs or extreme buffs that also have the side effect of totally ruining everything that makes a champion unique and would probably put the character in an even worse position to balance than it currently is.
Twitch just feels bad to play without lethal tempo. The big reason you play Twitch is to press R and spaceglide on the enemy team but by being limited to only 2.5 attack speed he just feels bad and way less cool. PLZ RIOT, make R break attack speed cap PLZ
@@pargonyan it is not about what is strong or make you win. Twitch without attack speed is just not as fun and if he can't get any I would rather just pick another champion
Which is why he needs a rework. Twitch is either gliding in R and wiping a team from stealth or he isn't in which case every other adc offers more. People don't want an 850range rat doing AOE to there entire team melting them but if he doesn't then he's weak because he offers nothing else.
Most ADCs feel amazing breaking the attack speed cap. Twitch in particular feels good because his ult is pretty damn devastating, but he isn't an exception, his ult just requires better positioning without it.
Big difference in dota is abilities don't scale with anything but level, so level ups are more important. Abilities also use way more mana such that a single rotation can oom you early game. So you are limited in the amount of times you can use your spells before backing unlike league where mana doesnt matter except in lane and even then barely.
@@Emilgodnot really anymore, maybe ten years ago but not now. With all the talents and shard upgrades about 75% of the roster have 10 or sub 10 second cd spells and a dozen or two having sub 5 second cd spells some even have 2 spells in their kits. (excluding autocast and toggle spells) Barring ults and high impact basic spells like anything near 2 second stuns, most spells are now around 15 seconds. Edit: the average cd of spells is 12/13 seconds now in dota.
@joshbrucks oom only matters in lane now for most heroes, dota has so much abundance of regen for hp and mana currently that a storm barely needs to back into the fountain anymore. You can have games with other heroes that you may not have gone back to the fountain at all, only when respawning or defending the ancient. There're also areas of the map the give aura regen and consumables for free with the map expansion update.
Dota’s countering mechanisms aren’t just kits, it’s items as well. For example, Black King Bar exists which gives full immunity to magic (including CC) for a time that gets reduced with each use of the item (to a floor value). It’s really annoying when League devs and players fail to understand that the games aren’t really comparable in terms of how things are balanced.
If Singed was released today he'd be based on his arcane itteration. So... either not changed as in Viktors case or not fittinng his champ identity like the energy (Strictly Ionian mechanic) and hyper mobile (she's a burly old woman) Ambessa
how is it possible for a character to feel weak yet have such a high winrate? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't experienced this with any champions I've played.
Riot August believes that characters with low agency tend to feel weak at 50% winrate, and hence need a higher winrate to compensate. This channel has a video where August talks about this, I think it's How Objective is Winrate. My take is that having agency allows you to feel impactful and thus stronger, and being stronger numbers-wise also makes you feel more impactful and thus stronger, so for instance a Kayle at 51% winrate may be strong, but you may not feel that the decisions you made and your prowess as a player is what contributed to winning your games and thus you may feel like you were carried, or that you won because your team survived until late game because that's what your champ does and someone who plays worse than you could still have won the game.
You have to do many things perfectly in order to do something that other champions can do easily And the fact is that those champs are only played by OTPs which obviously makes them to have a higher win rate
A think a good example of a high agency character is Akali where your goal is to make mechanical outplays to get kills from pretty early into the game. Your impact or lack thereof is very tangible and feels like it's in your own hands. So even if you lose you feel like that's cause you weren't mechanically good enough. In other words you don't instinctively blame it on your character being weak. As opposed to Kayle where you just wanna survive until you can have an impact. Even if you win more games that way, the games you lost feel like couldn't do anything cause you don't really get to "make stuff happen" until way later into the game.
How can Twitch be buffed though? His Q is too strong for something not tied to his own role, W does absolutely nothing due to mobility creep in the game, E barely does damage even though it is conditional by having to stack passive, Passive doesnt scale for ADC, ult can miss on a champion who cannot reposition or defend itself in any way at all.
What?? I've never met a soul who would dare to suggest Jhin needs a rework. The general consensus on the community is that Jhin is one of if not the best champion design in the game.
I can deffo see some Jhin players way back in the day that wants to take away the reload mechanic. People around me 8 years ago?? didnt like the reload mechanic. Mind you this was around the time Jhin released so its not a farfetched idea
twitch doesn't need a rework. he needs his items to be unfucked. every crit items is garbage now outside of collector alone. ranged bork is a reportable offence to build his ap build was gutted a long time ago he no longer has a rune the fact that this has been the state of the champion for almost 4 months is disgusting cause if this was a windshitter riot would have hotfix turbo buffed him 6 months ago.
@@einjharrelracacollector is a weird pick for best adc item since it doesn’t provide that much, also adcs only need a good crit item into infinity edge into %pen and you rarely go past that. his ap build is also still playable if you build it correctly. While the adc items are bad rn thats not a Twitch specific thing but affects like half of them
@@rubinrobo2265 you've just described 12k gold in items, in a game where matches are ending before 9k gold in the vast majority of games. Also collector is the only functioning crit item now, unless you're 1 of 2 people who can use essence reaver, but those two have already been deleted from the game with nerfs. Also the adc items being dogshit does effect twitch more than most of the others, because he doesn't build collector, the only useable crit item.
0:45 so Seraphine will be reworked soon, right? because she fits PERFECTLY to that description, and fits with what you said about Swain too. Stop being hypocritical, we're done with Riot saying one thing, and another thing happening
They gave her a bigger rework than Swain this year, I'm pretty sure, might have been at the end of last year. The patch where they tried to get her out of APC and into support. It's bought both roles much closer in terms of winrate/viability.
@@Bladius_ did you see what he said on the minute i said there? it doesn't matter if she was already reworked, she's still on that situation that he said: high win rate but still feels weak to play, it's not about the player, it's the FELLING. and we DON'T decide what to feel, and Seraphine is there: still a high win rate on bot lane (as ANY APC champs), but feels weak. You cannot say that play with Veigar APC make you feel weak, or Ziggs, or Swain, or HWEI, etc. Anyway...
if singed were released today he'd be renata
Nah, that's Silco. I imagine he'd be like a hybrid between a control mage and an enchanter who can spread harmful effects across the board.
I smell a singed main lurking in the waters
The rework they did to singed on wild rift feels really good and I think would work well on pc
So, I think it's important to separate Singed the Man vs Singed the Ide... I mean set of game mechanics. If they were to release a character based on singed's flavor text, the character he is supposed to be, he would be the support August is describing and I agree that's a good fit for him. Even without Arcane's version of the character, dude's the main villain in like 20% of champions' backstories, runeterra's leading war crime salesman and scheming mad scientist, but not the kind who just gets in there with his own two hands.
If they were going to release a champion whose whole gimmick is that he cropdusts your team and throws people then that's a different problem. I imagine they'd probably nerf the poison damage to champions but make it stack something that singed would have to cash out with a different ability that would require him to interact with his opponent in a way they can counter. Probably with a reset if you pop X number of poison stacks, I dunno. Riot has been moving away from champions that can get value while avoiding interactions (Yuumi aside) for a long time, it's why we don't get the crazy long-range artillery mages we used to get.
Naturally this would annoy singed mains, to whom part of the fun is that they're annoying and uninteractable.
One of the few comments who seems to have a good grasp on how things work, love it.
Ive always thought that singed should be split into 2 characters with one being his gameplay as it is now and another being the actual character singed as you would imagine him in arcane, heck you could maybe make him a toplane single unit summoner with the axolotl thing being the one running around spreading gas whilst he provides support to it, kinda like a single unit support bruiser in one but designed to only support his summon with the clear weakness being if the axolotl front line is down then hes at his most vulnerable
Wouldn’t you consider Hwei to be a crazy long-range artillery mage?
compared to xerath and lux? absolutely not lmao
The thing is that's not true, what's really awesome about Singed is that he's a completely scuffed mad geniuous and constantly gets in there with his bare hands, even in the show he went in person to hunt that 2 headed wolf and when testing he tests it himself by making it chase him.
Lore wise it fits perfectly, he does everything himself, he doesn't have goons or helpers and he's not a faction, he joins whoever gives him more opportunities but he's a 1 man show and him running around with a wooden shield and drugging himself on his own power medicine is perfect he is not a support or a ranged character in any sense, he's clearly not that kind of guy lore wise.
Have to side with the rat fans on this one.
Twitch W and E are seriously not abilities. His R bullets can miss which can ruin a fight seemingly by chance, when it is supposed to be his highest power tool (his Q sets it up).
It's more than just being weak.
Twich, Sivir and Vayne (technically) are the prime base ADC, Q for extra damage, 2 in between habilityes with soe weird basic effect and an R that amplifies something. I would say Sivir lacks harder than twich, but at the end she can bring something useful even when behind.
@@CasualLeague sivir has the best wave clear in the game, counters some specific ad and support champions while sacrificing early strength & auto range
vayne counters ezreal, big tanks, does tons of true damage and has tons of mobility and scaling while sacrificing wave clear and range
twitch has bad wave clear (W lol), bad range early, bad trading, bad scaling, low damage, his E is an extra auto attack, and he isn't even especially good into any champions, only thematically sometimes against weak engage yet tanky comps (extremely rare). The only thing he has going for him is invisibility cheese. This is not fun for the person playing as, or against, twitch.
The final bit on dota2 vs league design is very interesting and I think translates similarly into other genres
in street fighter or tekken, characters play by very similar rules and then you look over at guilty gear and there's a character that plays like an RTS, someone who can store and repeat moves and someone who can freely whack pool balls around like a physics game
Singed giving the insanity potion to other character, making them go insane fast to him like Warwick when he's at low HP would be one of his abilities probably, a reposition teammates character
Also, twitch is horrible, the only time you can make him viable is when he appears out of nowhere and oneshots your team with almost no counterplay, the problem being it has to do what Aphelios do without being invisible or Samira being far
His concept is not healthy for an ADC where burst is trying to be avoided and counterplay being the main focuse today, he has to be kept out of the meta or be reworked to a healthier playstyle
I don’t think Twitch being weak is what the chatter meant.
Twitch Ultimate and Q are for an Adc while his Passive, W and E are an ap champion.
And buffing him out of that is quite difficult since his Q makes him easily break the game.
I heard Twitch has really bad WR rn yet when I play with my friend they consistently get hyper fed and carry the game specifically on Twitch.
They also play both Ad and ap twitch and say that they feel incredibly weak while playing ad even if winning.
Their reason is that Twitch only has his Q and R since passive deals almost no damage, W is nice but not great and E deals the damage of maybe 2 autos.
Rs projectiles being dodgable also doesn’t make it better and unlike other Adcs with bad spells like Jinx for example, Twitch only gets the 6 second window of his R to safely fight before having to go really close.
due to that he fails at having great uptime and plays around burst which then leads them to ap.
Conclusion: Twitch is a bad teamfighter preferring to play for picks, contradicting the Adc playstyle and making his ap build feel better at accomplishing that.
Twitchs kits plays 2 sides which is cool on a character where it works but not when the other half of your kit feels useless when playing the first.
Twitchs Q allows him to easily snowball in low elo and uncoordinated games while not providing a lot outside.
I know low elo stompers are an ok thing to have but Twitch isn’t actually a champion you see in lower elos.
The main concept about Twitch is that he should enter fights by flanking with his Q, with full enemy team focusing your frontline and you can shoot deliberately with his ult. Pretty easy plan, the problems start when adc items are trash and 2 tanks with 1 and half armor item can tank entire 6 seconds of Twitch ult and go down to probably 50% hp, and the rest of the kit does basically nothing; also honorable mention for his ult to make autos weaker by being dodgeable is crazy in 2025
Regardless of whether Twitch needs changes or not, August is right. People online usually really overestimate the amount of changes a champion needs. Reddit theorycraft reworks for champions are usually a massive set of extreme nerfs or extreme buffs that also have the side effect of totally ruining everything that makes a champion unique and would probably put the character in an even worse position to balance than it currently is.
Twitch just feels bad to play without lethal tempo. The big reason you play Twitch is to press R and spaceglide on the enemy team but by being limited to only 2.5 attack speed he just feels bad and way less cool. PLZ RIOT, make R break attack speed cap PLZ
If you want to win with Twitch you do not need attack speed lmao I love URF also but not building crit on twitch is troll rn
@@pargonyan it is not about what is strong or make you win. Twitch without attack speed is just not as fun and if he can't get any I would rather just pick another champion
Which is why he needs a rework. Twitch is either gliding in R and wiping a team from stealth or he isn't in which case every other adc offers more.
People don't want an 850range rat doing AOE to there entire team melting them but if he doesn't then he's weak because he offers nothing else.
Most ADCs feel amazing breaking the attack speed cap. Twitch in particular feels good because his ult is pretty damn devastating, but he isn't an exception, his ult just requires better positioning without it.
Big difference in dota is abilities don't scale with anything but level, so level ups are more important. Abilities also use way more mana such that a single rotation can oom you early game. So you are limited in the amount of times you can use your spells before backing unlike league where mana doesnt matter except in lane and even then barely.
cooldowns are also higher on average
@@Emilgodnot really anymore, maybe ten years ago but not now. With all the talents and shard upgrades about 75% of the roster have 10 or sub 10 second cd spells and a dozen or two having sub 5 second cd spells some even have 2 spells in their kits. (excluding autocast and toggle spells)
Barring ults and high impact basic spells like anything near 2 second stuns, most spells are now around 15 seconds.
Edit: the average cd of spells is 12/13 seconds now in dota.
@joshbrucks oom only matters in lane now for most heroes, dota has so much abundance of regen for hp and mana currently that a storm barely needs to back into the fountain anymore. You can have games with other heroes that you may not have gone back to the fountain at all, only when respawning or defending the ancient. There're also areas of the map the give aura regen and consumables for free with the map expansion update.
Dota’s countering mechanisms aren’t just kits, it’s items as well. For example, Black King Bar exists which gives full immunity to magic (including CC) for a time that gets reduced with each use of the item (to a floor value). It’s really annoying when League devs and players fail to understand that the games aren’t really comparable in terms of how things are balanced.
If Singed was released today he'd be based on his arcane itteration. So... either not changed as in Viktors case or not fittinng his champ identity like the energy (Strictly Ionian mechanic) and hyper mobile (she's a burly old woman) Ambessa
he basically said phreak wanted
swain to be bad ass XD
how is it possible for a character to feel weak yet have such a high winrate? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't experienced this with any champions I've played.
Riot August believes that characters with low agency tend to feel weak at 50% winrate, and hence need a higher winrate to compensate. This channel has a video where August talks about this, I think it's How Objective is Winrate. My take is that having agency allows you to feel impactful and thus stronger, and being stronger numbers-wise also makes you feel more impactful and thus stronger, so for instance a Kayle at 51% winrate may be strong, but you may not feel that the decisions you made and your prowess as a player is what contributed to winning your games and thus you may feel like you were carried, or that you won because your team survived until late game because that's what your champ does and someone who plays worse than you could still have won the game.
You have to do many things perfectly in order to do something that other champions can do easily
And the fact is that those champs are only played by OTPs which obviously makes them to have a higher win rate
A think a good example of a high agency character is Akali where your goal is to make mechanical outplays to get kills from pretty early into the game. Your impact or lack thereof is very tangible and feels like it's in your own hands. So even if you lose you feel like that's cause you weren't mechanically good enough. In other words you don't instinctively blame it on your character being weak.
As opposed to Kayle where you just wanna survive until you can have an impact. Even if you win more games that way, the games you lost feel like couldn't do anything cause you don't really get to "make stuff happen" until way later into the game.
agency and quality of life or some of the biggest factors.
High amounts of invisible power in a champs kit. Like Janna’s old passive didn’t make Janna feel strong it made her teammates feel strong.
Don't Change Singed
yeah it’s so dumb that rework equates to just a buff in some people’s minds
How can Twitch be buffed though? His Q is too strong for something not tied to his own role, W does absolutely nothing due to mobility creep in the game, E barely does damage even though it is conditional by having to stack passive, Passive doesnt scale for ADC, ult can miss on a champion who cannot reposition or defend itself in any way at all.
I think Twitch needs a rework bad though. He can either be useless or OP. I don't know the last time he was "Balanced".
What?? I've never met a soul who would dare to suggest Jhin needs a rework.
The general consensus on the community is that Jhin is one of if not the best champion design in the game.
I can deffo see some Jhin players way back in the day that wants to take away the reload mechanic. People around me 8 years ago?? didnt like the reload mechanic. Mind you this was around the time Jhin released so its not a farfetched idea
Does champ need rework ok is it viable if no if we buff it does it become viable no? Then yes
So you mean singed from wild rift lmao
So, singed now would be a pro play balanced champion. Not surprised
twitch doesn't need a rework. he needs his items to be unfucked.
every crit items is garbage now outside of collector alone.
ranged bork is a reportable offence to build
his ap build was gutted a long time ago
he no longer has a rune
the fact that this has been the state of the champion for almost 4 months is disgusting cause if this was a windshitter riot would have hotfix turbo buffed him 6 months ago.
Low elo alert
@@realinus Must go off alot considering you're always around.
@@einjharrelracacollector is a weird pick for best adc item since it doesn’t provide that much, also adcs only need a good crit item into infinity edge into %pen and you rarely go past that.
his ap build is also still playable if you build it correctly.
While the adc items are bad rn thats not a Twitch specific thing but affects like half of them
@@rubinrobo2265 you've just described 12k gold in items, in a game where matches are ending before 9k gold in the vast majority of games.
Also collector is the only functioning crit item now, unless you're 1 of 2 people who can use essence reaver, but those two have already been deleted from the game with nerfs.
Also the adc items being dogshit does effect twitch more than most of the others, because he doesn't build collector, the only useable crit item.
@@einjharrelraca Says the guy with 100 comment in this channel
Priorities completely backwards.. “Feels weak with high winrate” If you guys suck at balancing your game and don’t care anymore just say that
0:45 so Seraphine will be reworked soon, right? because she fits PERFECTLY to that description, and fits with what you said about Swain too. Stop being hypocritical, we're done with Riot saying one thing, and another thing happening
They gave her a bigger rework than Swain this year, I'm pretty sure, might have been at the end of last year.
The patch where they tried to get her out of APC and into support.
It's bought both roles much closer in terms of winrate/viability.
@@Bladius_ did you see what he said on the minute i said there? it doesn't matter if she was already reworked, she's still on that situation that he said: high win rate but still feels weak to play, it's not about the player, it's the FELLING. and we DON'T decide what to feel, and Seraphine is there: still a high win rate on bot lane (as ANY APC champs), but feels weak. You cannot say that play with Veigar APC make you feel weak, or Ziggs, or Swain, or HWEI, etc. Anyway...
This dude is a highlight reel of terrible opinions
Then stop watching lol
Not really he just gives objective takes on game design you are too ignorant to understand
@ try commenting without attacking me I might take you seriously
@ yeah probably should dude sucks ass
@@zacharywolfgangbecker2386 It wasn't an attack it was a factual statement
i respect the diablo description. its why the game feels unrewarding. but most arpgs are just stat checks imo.