This is a great build. What I love about End-Fed Random Wire is, with a capable tuner, I get all the HF bands. A compromise antenna, but versatile. The "clear" speaker wire I used was hard to see from the street. Good choice on the toroid. I understand for 9:1 UnUns, type 2 helps with 20m towards 6m. Type 43 toroids perform better for 80m. 40m is a tossup. I am curious about moving the chokes closer to the radio allowing the coax to act as a counterpoise. I have heard 80m benefits from the counterpoise. I used one to help on 80m with about 120ft of radiating wire. The longer wire did not help my signal get out as much as I had hoped. Tuning the length was hard for me. Lengthening and shortening the antenna caused surprising (to me) results because the goal is AVOIDING resonant lengths. A great education! :-)
Thanks for the comment, glad you liked the video. I agree with you on the toroid selection, there are so many opinions on them. I choose to use the 130-2 because that is what was call out in the build. I generally choke at the feed point and attach a counterpoise but to your point, there are many configurations to try!
I built mine over a year ago and am THRILLED with it. Of course my experience with antennas other than a diapole is limited. Mine works fine for me on JS8Call, which is my main mode. Thanks for filming this.
I want to make a few different unun's and balun's. My only issue is many documents are imperial, I have to convert all the time, it's a pain. I like your tutorials though, very easy to follow without being too long and getting to the point! Thnx Mr Ape. :)
I put one of these up, not in a vertical configuration but as a sloper and I managed a contact to NM from NH on 20w with my xiegu g90. Easy little toroid to spin and since I used a 240-43 toroid with higher gauge magnet wire it'll probably handle more than 100 watts.
Good day Ape! Just built me a 49:1 UNUN last night and have the 9:1 core made, just need to assemble and solder tonight hopefully. Great vid. Keep en coming. KI5IQE
I have a suggestion. Ground rod with 3 ft of solid wire to it. I’ve used this for 3 yrs and made several. I’ve added wire and was on 160m. 1.996. I was able to get into VA with it about 8 ft off the ground, with the tail end at 4 ft to the ground. I don’t know the length, but I can get 160 to 10 m with ease and good swr. It’s a great antenna to make and try.
Loving the antenna building videos. A wire antenna of some type is probably what I will have to go to when I eventually get an HF setup. And also probably limited to 40m because of property length. I'd love to manage to get 80 though as there are a few nets I know of there. Keep up the great work, I love your content. I was also wondering how much power an antenna like this could handle including what it can do on FT8
If you use an FT-140 (43 mix) Toroid and solid copper wire, you will have very low SWR coming out of the gate! Powdered iron toroids will not reduce the impedance as well as Ferrite toroids, tinned copper wire is cheaper, but a compromise as well. Spend a few dollars more for quality components and the results will be superior. I built one myself following this plan with upgraded materials, my swr is flat, 1.04 on the 160 M, 80M, 40M. 20M bands-the 10-12-15-17 M bands have an swr of 1.2-1.5. Otherwise, the Smokin Ape instructions are fine..
Ape, your videos are the reason i picked up an Ender 3 recently. 3d printers pay for themselves eventually with all the stuff i've printed out ham related, car related, and fishing related. Do you have a thingiverse link to the yellow and blue wire wraps on this video? love those things. Thanks!
Good job on this Ape. I’ve heard verticals are inherently more noisy. Testing against a resonant vertical might show whether it was more noisy. I’m currently using a Nelson 9.1 with about 100 ft of wire, 60ft high as inverted L. I can use internal tuner on some bands, have to use my manual on others. 73 N4WLC Bill
Thanks for the video. I noticed in wrapping the toroid, you didn’t cross the streams. Way to go! Lol. You mentioned a little noise, and I was wondering if you tried a horizontal polarized configuration to compare with your vertical test? Another question I have is where are you measure SWR? Is that with the tuner in the circuit? (Sorry, that question might make me loose my engineers card). Thanks again, all the best, 73 de KI5HXM
I didn’t try horizontal, verticals are just more prone to noise. So I do measure the SWR with the tuner in-line because the random wire by design isn’t resonate on any ham band.
Ape, would a counterpoise be necessary if I have the antenna grounded to a copper rod right at the base? (would be be beneficial to have both? I'm thinking so) also, if I let the coax be the counterpoise (again, while grounded to the rod), can that coax be coiled up? I ask because if I use 25ft of coax as the counterpoise, my shack entrance may only be 10-15 ft away. Thanks!
Hey Samuel, glad you liked the video. With a 9:1 Random Wire antenna you generally need a tuner that covers a broader impedance mismatch that the 3:1 tuner in the 991. With an End Fed Half Wave antenna, which uses a 49:1 impedance transformer you would be fine. I have a video called "What the heck is a long wire antenna?" that will explain the difference in more detail.
You put common mode choke too close to transformer, thats why your coaxial cable doesn’t work as counterpoise. Put choke at other end of 16 feet coax near the transceiver
I was looking for a video on a 75 to 50 ohm Unun. I did find this: www.gnarc.org/wp-content/uploads/The-End-Fed-Half-Wave-Antenna.pdf I read in this that a choke shouldn’t be near an Unun? This causes loss on the shield acting bad a counterpoise. If you want, give it a read and see it it has merit. KI5IQE
Hey Joe, I have seen that doc and its a great resource. There is plenty of debate and opinions as to whether on not to use the coaxial shield as a counterpoise, I happen to be on the side of choking and using an attached counterpoise.
I just saw Astro Leah's video on the Earchi 9::1. It was nice of you to send her the End Fed MB and the custom enclosure. Youre a good guy Ape 👊
Haha, I try to be. Thanks for watching Joe!
I'm pumped now. 👊
Of course, antennas a awesome 👍
This is a great build.
What I love about End-Fed Random Wire is, with a capable tuner, I get all the HF bands. A compromise antenna, but versatile. The "clear" speaker wire I used was hard to see from the street.
Good choice on the toroid. I understand for 9:1 UnUns, type 2 helps with 20m towards 6m. Type 43 toroids perform better for 80m. 40m is a tossup.
I am curious about moving the chokes closer to the radio allowing the coax to act as a counterpoise.
I have heard 80m benefits from the counterpoise. I used one to help on 80m with about 120ft of radiating wire. The longer wire did not help my signal get out as much as I had hoped.
Tuning the length was hard for me. Lengthening and shortening the antenna caused surprising (to me) results because the goal is AVOIDING resonant lengths. A great education! :-)
Thanks for the comment, glad you liked the video. I agree with you on the toroid selection, there are so many opinions on them. I choose to use the 130-2 because that is what was call out in the build. I generally choke at the feed point and attach a counterpoise but to your point, there are many configurations to try!
I built mine over a year ago and am THRILLED with it. Of course my experience with antennas other than a diapole is limited. Mine works fine for me on JS8Call, which is my main mode. Thanks for filming this.
I'm happy with it so far. Thanks for watching and sharing your experience!
I want to make a few different unun's and balun's. My only issue is many documents are imperial, I have to convert all the time, it's a pain. I like your tutorials though, very easy to follow without being too long and getting to the point! Thnx Mr Ape. :)
Glad you like them Don, thanks for watching 👍
Great video Ape. You really explained things very well. Now you got me thinking on a 3D printer. No notice the word thinking. Lol. 73 Clark KG7LOI
Same here Ape! What kind of printer are you using & how do you like it? Great info!! 73 N9RAN
I love the printer but its a low end model, the Creality Ender 3
Made one of these a few years back. They work great!!
Yeah, it’s been a fun project. Thanks for watching Craig 👍
I put one of these up, not in a vertical configuration but as a sloper and I managed a contact to NM from NH on 20w with my xiegu g90. Easy little toroid to spin and since I used a 240-43 toroid with higher gauge magnet wire it'll probably handle more than 100 watts.
Nice, glad to hear it’s working for you 👍
Good day Ape! Just built me a 49:1 UNUN last night and have the 9:1 core made, just need to assemble and solder tonight hopefully. Great vid. Keep en coming. KI5IQE
Awesome, good luck with the build!
I have a suggestion. Ground rod with 3 ft of solid wire to it. I’ve used this for 3 yrs and made several. I’ve added wire and was on 160m. 1.996. I was able to get into VA with it about 8 ft off the ground, with the tail end at 4 ft to the ground. I don’t know the length, but I can get 160 to 10 m with ease and good swr. It’s a great antenna to make and try.
Great suggestion, thanks!
Good stuff!
I guess I'm going to make one.
Thanks for the video!
It’s an easy build, was a fun project too
Interesting and informative.
Thanks for sharing!
Glad you liked it 👍
Loving the antenna building videos. A wire antenna of some type is probably what I will have to go to when I eventually get an HF setup. And also probably limited to 40m because of property length. I'd love to manage to get 80 though as there are a few nets I know of there. Keep up the great work, I love your content. I was also wondering how much power an antenna like this could handle including what it can do on FT8
Glad you like the videos, more will be coming. I have a small property as well, so I’m trying to be creative. 👍
If you use an FT-140 (43 mix) Toroid and solid copper wire, you will have very low SWR coming out of the gate! Powdered iron toroids will not reduce the impedance as well as Ferrite toroids, tinned copper wire is cheaper, but a compromise as well. Spend a few dollars more for quality components and the results will be superior. I built one myself following this plan with upgraded materials, my swr is flat, 1.04 on the 160 M, 80M, 40M. 20M bands-the 10-12-15-17 M bands have an swr of 1.2-1.5. Otherwise, the Smokin Ape instructions are fine..
Agreed, thanks for the additional context Jonathan.
Ape, your videos are the reason i picked up an Ender 3 recently. 3d printers pay for themselves eventually with all the stuff i've printed out ham related, car related, and fishing related. Do you have a thingiverse link to the yellow and blue wire wraps on this video? love those things. Thanks!
Great to hear! This is the link: www.thingiverse.com/thing:2493083 I had to shrink them down to 85% to get it to fit on the bed.
Good job on this Ape. I’ve heard verticals are inherently more noisy. Testing against a resonant vertical might show whether it was more noisy. I’m currently using a Nelson 9.1 with about 100 ft of wire, 60ft high as inverted L. I can use internal tuner on some bands, have to use my manual on others. 73 N4WLC Bill
I've heard the same about verticals. I currently have a Nelson 9:1 running a 51' horizontal that is much more quiet. Thanks for the comment!
Drink every time he says "Toe-Roid"
Haha! 🍺
Do you think you could reduce noise by grounding the antenna at the counterpoise terminal?
Absolutely
Great video, thanks!
Thanks man, glad you liked it 👍
Thanks for the video. I noticed in wrapping the toroid, you didn’t cross the streams. Way to go! Lol. You mentioned a little noise, and I was wondering if you tried a horizontal polarized configuration to compare with your vertical test? Another question I have is where are you measure SWR? Is that with the tuner in the circuit? (Sorry, that question might make me loose my engineers card). Thanks again, all the best, 73 de KI5HXM
I didn’t try horizontal, verticals are just more prone to noise. So I do measure the SWR with the tuner in-line because the random wire by design isn’t resonate on any ham band.
@@TheSmokinApe thanks. After looking at this more I am leaning to EFHW. Thanks for answering my questions.
Best of luck with it Brent!
great vid smoke. Can i use this also for vhf/uhf base radio?
Nah, HF only 👍
The extra noise could be attributed to the fact that the radiating element is vertical. Vertical antennas are noisy.
Yep, totally agree. Thanks for the comment 👍
Ape, would a counterpoise be necessary if I have the antenna grounded to a copper rod right at the base? (would be be beneficial to have both? I'm thinking so)
also, if I let the coax be the counterpoise (again, while grounded to the rod), can that coax be coiled up? I ask because if I use 25ft of coax as the counterpoise, my shack entrance may only be 10-15 ft away. Thanks!
You should be fine without one, but with antennas you never know of what you will get. I'd try without and then add one if needed.
So, if you're using a counterpoise, does it just lie on the ground?
Yeah, I just run it across the ground 👍
Does it matter which ends of which wires are used where?
Yeah, the link I posted shows how to do it 👍
@@TheSmokinApe doh! yeah, I'm dumb. thanks
justaguy nah, just takes a while to figure out how this stuff works
Great video, Ape! I have a Yaesu FT-991 with a built in tuner, would I need an external tuner for this antenna?
Hey Samuel, glad you liked the video. With a 9:1 Random Wire antenna you generally need a tuner that covers a broader impedance mismatch that the 3:1 tuner in the 991. With an End Fed Half Wave antenna, which uses a 49:1 impedance transformer you would be fine. I have a video called "What the heck is a long wire antenna?" that will explain the difference in more detail.
@@TheSmokinApe Thanks, I'll check that video out! I'm a newbie, hoping to get my General ticket later this week.
Good luck on the test 👍
@@TheSmokinApe I passed! Now on to the extra...
You put common mode choke too close to transformer, thats why your coaxial cable doesn’t work as counterpoise. Put choke at other end of 16 feet coax near the transceiver
Correct, I typically prefer to use an external counterpoise and not the coax shield. Thanks for the comment Ruslan 👍
If you use a counterpoise, the choke should be at the antenna feedpoint. Using a choke means that the coax feedline can be any length you want.
@@davesunderland632 correct, that’s my preferred setup 👍
I was looking for a video on a 75 to 50 ohm Unun.
I did find this: www.gnarc.org/wp-content/uploads/The-End-Fed-Half-Wave-Antenna.pdf
I read in this that a choke shouldn’t be near an Unun? This causes loss on the shield acting bad a counterpoise.
If you want, give it a read and see it it has merit. KI5IQE
Hey Joe, I have seen that doc and its a great resource. There is plenty of debate and opinions as to whether on not to use the coaxial shield as a counterpoise, I happen to be on the side of choking and using an attached counterpoise.
First!
Lol 👍