The Palworld Lawsuit Is Not Right.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
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Nintendo & The Pokemon company made their move.
Sources:
www.404media.c...
www.videogames...
www.videogames...
bellular.games...
automaton-medi...
www.pcgamer.co...
patents.justia...
patents.justia...
x.com/stephent...
www.pocketpair...
x.com/serkanto...
kotaku.com/nin...
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I haven't actually played them (I will get to them one day) but i was under the impression pokemon was very similar to dragon quest? i mean if pal world can prove Pokémon took artistic inspiration from another game wouldn't that make their whole argument null? Plus this is crazy bad pr for Nintendo, good luck with those switch 2 sales if you take palworld from consumers
Can't they just pull the game from Japan and say "fuck you" to nintendo?
Gizmoplex regarding the use of emulation technologies. In addition, in 2017, Nintendo lost a lawsuit against the video game accessory manufacturer, which
concerned the design of the controller.
Despite legal successes, some of these battles demonstrated the complexity of copyright and patent laws in the video game industry. 1. Patentability of ideas: In a 2017 case, Nintendo lost to a company that had developed a Wil-like control system, with the court ruling that Nintendo's patent was invalid.
2. Copyright infringement: In
2018, a court ruled that Nintendo could not prevent the distribution of ROMs and emulators because fair use law played a role in favor of developers.
3. Trademark disputes: There have been cases where Nintendo has lost legal battles over the use of trademarks by allowing third parties to use similar names for their products. I don't want to flame or start a fight, solely as a gamer with 900+ hours on palworld, I want to debunk this supposed omnipotence of nintendo. Source chatgpt4, Thank you.
Funny how patents are claimed to protect innovation, and yet all they actually do is stifle competition, thus _preventing innovation._
100%.
One of the biggest lies capitalism tells you is that it promotes innovation and competition.
"Nintendo has never lost a litigation that they started" - well, everything's got a first... though I wouldn't hold my breath.
They have, many times even, just outside Japan.
really hoping this is the first time in japan.
Boycott Nintendo.
It's because they rule Japan. Pocketpair is screwed.
Japan is very corrupt, even though people online like to think Japan is some Utopia.
Instead of taking lessons from Palworld, Nintendo just takes out the competition. Classic corporate greed.
The lesson they should have taken was people have wanted this game for 30 years and all they release is 2d
Those of us that are anti-corp tried to warn people, but the Nintendo fanboys didn't listen. This is how this company has always been. They didn't "save the industry" in the 80s, they opportunistically tried to enslave it.
Boycott Nintendo.
Sounds like monopoly practice
The funny thing is that this way of seeing it is mostly only on the West.
Most of the people in Japan making comments about this appear to support Nintendo and think that Palworld actually did something that is deserving of being sued for.
I think that is a bit telling since Japanese people don't have much problems with derivative works or fanworks most of the time. So Palworld having such a bad reputation in Japan, their home turf, makes me think that we are not getting the entire story.
I don't think It's Nintendo or the Pokémon Company getting greedy, I think Palworld did something wrong and this lawsuit is a response to that.
This is the sad part of legal battles. Its probably cheaper to settle rather than string out litigation for years and end up losing anyway. Justice is a myth in the corporate world.
This is less a 'end up losing anyway' situation and more a draw things out until the opponent can't fight anymore, then legally right and wrong don't matter. The only realistic trick I could see coming is leveraging Sony power against Nintendo to hold out through the stalemate Nintendo wants in a bid to weaken Nintendo's position so Sony can elbow in to the space (and build up some of their lost goodwill). Its a game of chess where Palworld is a nuetral pawn and their ownly hope is to beg a side to take them in.
I would also bet if Sony comes out and says they are supporting Palworld that Nintendo drops the lawsuite then and their because they want the threat of their patents to cow lesser competition, but know if anyone manages to get to the point of calling their bluff that they lose that portion of their legal arsenal permanently.
The one with the deepest pockets will win
@@thehob3836 From what I've heard, Microsoft is also in support of Palworld/Pocketpair, so they might get involved as well.
Way back in the day, fledgling Nintendo was only able to go forward with Donkey Kong (the arcade classic) because they won a legal battle that said that the company who was suing them couldn't patent core game mechanics like jumping. Now they're trying to do the EXACT SAME THING with stuff like "shadows to see your character behind trees" and "Resume notifications when coming back from sleep mode?" What the actual hell Nintendo.
That sleep mode patent especially gets me. Technically you could argue Windows has been "infringing" on that patent since Windows 8, and I'm pretty sure Windows 8 precedes the 3DS.
@@MythrilZenith it be fun to see the judge throw out the case citing this exact lawsuit
What was that line again? "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the corporate monster"? Well, you get what I mean.
They arnt even the first monster catcher game either. Also look at the esrb system. Nintendo tried to take out Sega by saying games are to graphic in a legal court case
@@MythrilZenith The thing I'm not seeing people talk about is that these parents have already been infringed in one way or another by multiple different games. "Capturing creatures in tiny balls" was used by nexomon and world of final fantasy. It begs the question, why didn't Nintendo go after them? I think the answer is that they legit see palworlds as a true future competitor.
I hope Bandai sues Nintendo for patent infringement for same thing
@@szymonlxl6004 this will never fly in America. We have something called freedom.
@@BargerClan do we though? Disney pull A lot of levers here in the U.S. too. Just look at those scumbags trying to dismiss the lady who died to a peanut allergy at one of their partner restaurants. If the PR hadn't wrecked them they probably would have continue with that case. I worked in hotel design for a couple years and disney was that client that always got their way. Shit is terrible. Money talks.
@@ehwick8175 And WotC sending Pinkertons to someone's house to steal their purchased property.
@@BargerClan it has a better chance of passing in the US then in japan lmao
@@BargerClan Where do you think Warner Brothers is based? Or EA, which has a patent on the Mass Effect dialogue wheel? We literally do the same shit. Hell, Japan probably got this system from us.
Never, ever, EVER say that copyright and patent laws, from ANY country, are a good thing. It can be all fun and games, or can be as pressing as insulin.
Id argue to issue isn't patents so much as the legal system being able to be weaponized due to monetary costs. A game that died due to court was Friday the 13th
Copyright and patent laws are necessary. Software copyright and more importantly software patents... that's a different question.
The alternative to patents is companies just hoarding knowledge for as long as they can. Patents are a way to have public access to sufficiently detailed descriptions of inventions forever for the price of giving the patent owner temporary protection.
@@tirex3673 "forever" No, patents are not "forever", they expired automatically after a time. They are time limited, and I think they're even more time limited than trademarks.
What are you talking, without copyright laws this exact crap would be the norm.
Small creator making something? Big corpo steals it, publishes faster, and to a bigger audience until it will be perceived as theirs. Fast forward, only people with money are able to 'create' things.
Ever since Nintendo tried to patent Tears of the Kingdom's ultra hand mechanics, this lawsuit shouldn't be that much of a surprise to anyone, but it's still a shame to see how low a company could get just to prevent a potential competitor (One that's not even worth a fraction of their total net worth) become any larger because their own product in Pokémon is so lacking in many areas nowadays.
Nintendo trying to Sue Palworld, not because of their designs through a copyright infringement, but over a patent of their game mechanics is absolutely abhorrent and if they win, it could start the doom of the industry and games as a form of interpret creation itself.
The idea that a corporation could take a mere idea or concept of a mechanic and patent it so that only they could profit and use it in their games is so inherently greedy and cruel to the creation of art itself that I can't even fathom how someone could even justify this.
Although given this is Nintendo, I don't think we should be shocked that they could stoop this low.
it's amazing that anything can exist at all, everything is built on and iteration of something earlier. even Pokemon can be questioned under "Cold Bussnies". something needs to happen to Nintendo however the Nintendo fans are to fanboy to ever boycot. it really feels like Nintendo won the "Gaming War" by creating it's own ecosystem with console and games
Ah gotta love late stage capitalism
@Hurricayne92 these games wouldn't even exist without capitalism, we'd be starving as your 8th collective farm plan failed so we have to purge again
@@Hurricayne92 Corporatism.
Boycott Nintendo.
Patent and copyright law has gotten to the point it can be weaponized against smaller entities and is in need of a much needed change. That's likely not gonna happen, but not giving them money would work, eventually.
The wealthy have full control. They can also pay off judges, prosecutors, lawmakers, etc. And if they DON'T play ball, it's pretty easy to threaten families, livelihoods, etc.
TL;DR VERSION = Neintendon't will *win*. Again. As always.
@@trelard Despite me not really being on the side of Pocketpair either, I don't think people in comments here are grasping that this is bigger than the video games. It's about the potential media empire.
Nintendo knows it can't win on its designs. Pals are legally distinct. Gross in itself, but I digress. If it could, they would.
But Nintendo doesn't care about the games or even the mechanics of the games. Millions of folks who don't follow gaming news and play Pokémon now don't know what "Palworld" is if just because it's not on the Switch or phones. And Pokémon nostalgia works on many older fans. Me included.
But it's not gonna work on younger players who don't have that nostalgia.
If Palworld starts producing an anime...and a movie...and merchandise...and a TCG...and so on, then TPC would actually have a competitor, because you _would_ have customers picking between Lucario and Anubis dolls. Verdash and Cinderace keychains.
Nintendo gives _no_ effs about the game. But "Palworld Entertainment" based off of Pals lifted from their own designs?
Yeah, Nintendo is gonna snuff that.
It's not gonna affect the industry. Everyone knows Nintendo wouldn't care as long as the designs were unique. It's why Digimon or Yokai Watch wasn't ever contested.
They just now know Nintendo will do underhanded leverage if you try to skirt around and use their IP by being legally distinct.
Both companies are gross here. But I don't really care what happens, because the industry knows what's really going on.
that's been a thing for ages, there is a video by secret galaxy here on youtube talking about the history of macross franchise in the west and how HarmonyGold was basically just abusing the law for 30 years.
Software patents are one of the worst things to happen to creativity.
Software patents shouldn't even be a thing. It is literally patenting ideas - the one thing patents were never meant to do. As a programmer, I hate software patents with a passion beacuse they feel like thought-crimes.
@@Xehlwan Indie dev here. I fully agree. The audacity of these companies to patent basic stuff when game design is somewhat iterative at its core is just astounding.
@@bunnybreaker They probably wouldn't hold in court same as all the copyright strikes by major corps legal under fair use. But who has a billion dollars to fight it?
Limitations are innovating. Reminder how limits forced early games do impossible things.
@@x149te Ps1 games at end of life were like 10x better than at start with same hardware
Reminder that you don't hate nintendo enough
Man I've been saying for years that there's alot of horrible shit they do behind that cuddly image. Business wise they are ruthless and cutthroat as it gets
"Who cares, just let people enjoy games man"
enjoy the lawsuit people, I've hated Nintendo for at least a decade and I'm getting tired of being ostracized because I want the industry to be less shit
@@ChemySh And I like modern gaming as a whole, no matter what company. and I've always wanted to see this colonial kid stuff go R rated.
I do
Those patents sound like in the early days of the games industry when companies thought they could copyright something as broad as the idea of an 'fps'
Any US or European court would look at this and go "Why didn't you sue a year ago when the game first came out?" This is an atrocity.
Because the game came out in January of this year, not last year. Just my guess.
Um, no, there's nothing saying that companies cannot sit back for a bit and prepare their cases. Especially whilst damages accrue. Sure, you can't wait a decade, but it isn't as though one must instigate legal action the very moment something is launched. No one is omniscient. Not even Neintendon't.
@Novastar.SaberCombat um yes there is brainless, it's called the statute of limitations
@@syndan9245 Yes, hence why Novastar clearly said you can't wait a decade. However, you do have to be able to prove your case first before filing a lawsuit.
@@syndan9245The statute of limitations isn‘t a year.
I had no idea this was about patents that have such broad and general use in the industry. This is gross. Disgusting.
Rich gotta rich. 💪😎✌️ And the wealthiest always win. ALWAYS.
Corporate bullying at it's finest. Shame on you Nintendo.
Nintendo is suing palworld for patents that didn't exist at the time of palworld's release.... Nintendo is speedrunning to be the greediest and scummiest game company at this point.
We don't actually know what the patents are yet. Even Pocketpair doesn't know yet. I doubt it would be from things they've filed this year if they have anything from earlier that they could dip into instead, which they undoubtedly do. Still, the fact that they've patented flying mounts and elemental weaknesses this year alone is... um. Well, it certainly is.
Patent is from 22.06.2023, Palworld release is from 19.01.2024 so patent was 6 months ahead of game. At that time Palworld already must have all core systems ready. I would like to call this patent corporate spying from Nintendo...
@MediaMunkee they patented "elemental weaknesses" as a system like they use in Pokémon? So .... basically, no one in Japan can play Rock, Paper Scissors ever again without paying Nintendo? Because what is that elemental weakness system but effectively Rock Paper Scissors with more options?
Nintendo is proof there is no justice in the courts lol. There is only money to be made.
@@Thagrynor There's no reasonable way it should hold up. "Elemental weaknesses" are pretty ubiquitous in gaming. You can find them virtually everywhere. Megaman. Final Fantasy. Sonic had them at one point technically. Deep Rock Galactic has them. Most every RPG has them, including Baldur's Gate 3 and Dungeons and Dragons as a whole. Monster Hunter. These are things that are just off the top of my head, there are certainly many more games of wildly different genres and variety that has "elemental weaknesses" in them. It would be incredibly stupid to think it should remotely come close to viability.
Nintendo is mad that an indie dev showed Pokemon games for the bare-bones lazy shit they've been for a long time now
why would they be mad? They're gettimg all the money it made now lol You either play on their terms or you dont play at all 😂
💯
Nintendo and TPC have failed to protect the patent they are using to sue Pocketpair over Palworld. The game "TemTem" exists, and hasn't been harassed by TPC or Nintendo, despite being the same exact style of game. The only difference? It's cards instead of balls or spheres. The patent however, describes the mechanics, not a ball or sphere, therefore TemTem could be referenced as a failure of defending their patent prior to suing Pocketpair. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't that mean that the patent could be null and void?
No. That is only a trademark thing. Pretty sure you can selectively enforce your patents as much as you want.
@@Raio_Verusia
Temtem is not very good and highly niche and nowhere near a threat. That's why Nintendo isn't going after them.
Reminded me that because of Nintendo's too broad patent - there were no arrows showing where to go in racing games for 20 years.
That was sega and crazy taxi, not nintendo
The fact that they waited for the popularity of Palworld to fall off before trying to go after them in hopes it would've gone under the radar.
it's gonna be really funny when all the fan- artists file a class action lawsuit against Nintendo for all the designs they stole from them
It's more likely they held off because a lot of the patents they're going to use (like the one about catching monster with a ball mentioned in the video) were only filed AFTER Palworld was released.
I don't think it was even about that. In May of this year they filed a patent or re-filed a patent for "the targeting system of tossing an object at a mon in an overworld," like what we see in Legends Arceus. They waited until they actually had a patent so they could file for patent infringement.
@@Athasin wouldn't that not count? That's like saying Mario copied Sonic.
@@RockyPixel This isn't a copyright infringement suit though, it's not about copying period. It's a patent suit.
Nintendo is saying, they created this tech, they patented this tech, and no other company is allowed to use this tech in their game without Nintendo's permission or they'll owe Nintendo a lot of money.
Like Belle said in the video if a patent is too broad then it's considered void. HOWEVER, this is Nintendo (rulers of Japan) suing another Japanese company in Japan... so the chances of the Japanese company saying Nintendo's patents is too broad is slim to none.
@@Athasin no, like they're suing with a patent that only existed after what their suing existed. How the Hell does that work?
That patent system needs reform.
That will never happen. The wealthy would never permit it.
Take a break Sony, Microsoft and Ubisoft… it’s my turn to take an L
-Nintendo, probably.
Nintendo undefeated in Japan... Legal wise. 100% win rate when they sue.
@@QuantumNovaGood lad. Service Miyamoto harder! 😂
I hate it when people try and paint Nintendo as saints. I don't deny they don't do the same greedy corporate shenanigans that other gaming companies do, but they can still be pretty bad in their own way.
You are just lookkng for a "moral" reason to get their stuff for free
Nintendo is an lesser evil, but thats still evil
Great games, shitty company.
@@cristiany140 There are plenty of people here doing that, but BP-dn9nv isn't.
@@cristiany140 "You are just lookkng for a "moral" reason to get their stuff for free"
We're getting their stuff for free because they don't deserve our money.
Almost all the big gaming companies nowadays are utterly disgusting.
I say "almost" because that's just the ones I know about. But there could be one out there that's not disgusting. I doubt it though.
Nintendo wont change unless they are hurt where it counts, a change in law or their profits
so literally nothing will ever going to change
They have too many fans who just do not give a damn about the terrible business Nintendo operates on.
@@frankmckenneth9254 When I was a kid I stole an Apple.
As an adult I own my own shop now.
But I can't call the police anymore because I once stole an apple...
But but Pokemon stole too... Wahh Wah
Boycott Nintendo.
Both
With everything Nintendo has done recently, I just really hate them. I hate what they have become. I cant find myself ever giving them a single cent from now on.
Simple solution: Strip nintendo of every single patent.
Agreed. Also, boycott Nintendo.
You'd have a better shot at robbing Kim Kardashian's house.
Including ones on their own technology?
@@CALAMITY0FHYRULEAbuse it and lose it.
@@frazonedracaoo6981 that sounds comunist
Lmao, Im gonna continue to support Palworld. One of the reasons I bought it to begin with was because it did what Pokémon REFUSED to do... INNOVATE!!
Dumbest patent ever. Hiw did it even get granted
Those don't seem like inventions
It’s like if the creators of the mansion of happiness/candyland patented rolling dice to move spaces
This to me, is a clear indication that it should not be possible to patent game mechanics. Everyone should be able to build off of everyone else.
We should not just be upset at Nintendo for doing this. We should be furious that things like this are legal in the first place.
Absolutely. Copyrighting your code is fine, but patenting an idea should be illegal.
yes and no u don't want things stealing from u but theres a difference between stealing and inspiration. also idk what the culture is in Japan so im not going to get angry at them based on western culture
@@Nytrusdeathcyde you can't steal ideas because physical objects are limited in ways that idea's are not. For example you can steal someone's stick to spear fish but you can not steal the idea of spear fishing you can only use it or copy it.
Oh Nintendo absolutely see PocketPair and Palworld as a threat and major rival. Not in the normal sense either. This is a rival that's literally in the same city as them, growing in popularity in their backyard that they an just go out and take measure of. They see the same path of potential for Palworld as what they saw for Pokemon. Right now it's just a spark. A spark that could cause a massive wildfire of popularity to truly be a sticky rival to Pokemon. And they want to stamp that out.
This is bleeding tactic. It has nothing to do with protecting the image of Pokemon or literally anything. Like you said, this is business. And as a business, they don't want rivals for their most profitable IP. Palworld threatens the bottom line. There is no version of this where Nintendo comes out looking clean. No matter what, they will accumulate yet another stain upon their name. Truly, they never lost their Yakuza roots.
Luckily, Craftopia had the ball throwing mechanic in 2020, a year before the Nintendo patent.
Nintendo, as far as I'm concerned, have lost all credibility with me, as a game company, because of this suit (and many others). In the mid 1980s Nintendo brought gaming back from the literal landfill that Atari had put it in, and they were heralded as the saviors of gaming. Ironic that now they are taking steps which could destroy gaming all over again, this time for good.
Being allowed to patent game mechanics, and then use that to destroy competition is not only one of the scummiest things you can do (goes right up there with suing people for using certain words, like "scrolls"... BETHESDA), but it probably constitutes a monopoly in some fashion, because there are only a set number of ways you can make a game. Today, it's throwing a ball to catch a monster. Tomorrow, it could be parkour mechanics or worse.
This is blatant patent abuse, as far as I'm concerned, and if they win, it gives every other game company the legal precedent to do exactly the same thing. Innovation will cease, indie devs won't be able to create new games, and all the power of the gaming industry will be in the hands of a few select, multi-million-dollar companies that couldn't care less about their customers if they tried.
Genki released Jade cocoon 1&2 without a lawsuit.....
It was different enough
Jade Cocoon has similar system, but way differently implemented, plus Jade Cocoon is superior to Pokemon.
@@Xport9 lmao ok
@@benny_dryl It's true though. But sure.
@@Xport9lmao ok
This is basically like a slapp suit, its a large, powerful company trying to silence a smaller one. It doesn't care about actually winning, it just wants to crush possible competition and has the money to throw around to try and do so.
Correct.
yet I still get blatant ads on youtube with Pokemon in it advertising stuff that isn't Pokemon related......
Nintendo is like the United States feds if they got a case against you … 👀 yeah
feds do lose from time to time. but they definitely dont like to.
Boycott Nintendo.
Nintendo: two steps ahead... we are always two steps ahead...
would that be nicotendo or nincado? whichever is more insulting, i suppose
Japan is very scary when it comes to business
*not really scary. more just incredibly protectionist. Those big Japanese companies have immense influence in the country. The Japanese law and justice system will side with them over a foreign company in almost all cases. Nintendo also has a fanbase who will completely ignore or justify all the heinous stuff them do. Which enables them to do these sort of things free from real consequences or brand damage.
Older Japanese generations are incredibly xenophobic. Those are then men who run business and law in the country right now. In many cases, as a foreigner in Japan you simply have no recourse against a Japanese company, even if the complaint is legitimate. The laws are built to favor Japanese over everyone else. It's very common for foreigners who move to Japan to get scammed by landlords there, and when you go to the authorities, they simply tell you that you can't do anything.
I'd call it disgusting myself tbh.
@@e2rqey "over a foreign company"
Sure, but the company that owns Palworld is not a foreign company. They're both Japanese companies. Pocketpair is just way smaller, but they're still both Japanese.
You can argue that they'd probably side with Nintendo because Nintendo is far bigger, but this has nothing to do with siding with Nintendo over a foreign company.
If ya buy Pokemon Z: Legends.... ya'll the problem.... send a message... money is their only language.
I've not bought a "new" Pokémon game since X/Y. I didn't consider Brilliant Diamond "new," more of a bastardization of the Diamond/Pearl I knew during the DS.
When people vote with their dollars, the people who have the most dollars get the most votes. Relying on market solutions to curb corporate abuse will never work. Legal reform is needed.
If i want to play a pokemon game nowdays i will look for fan games or just download a rom
@@vengefuldevil5195 gamers usually have a bad track record of boycotting Nintendo; especially with Pokemon
Remember how mad everyone got with how shoddy of a product sword and shield was but it made record breaking sales?
way ahead of you brother, i havent bought a nintendo product new since the snes was a thing, and havent bought them used since the gamecube.
Kids of Nintendo should yell at their dads
F' Nintendo. - I think I'm even now to the point that when M Prime 4 does finally come, I dont think I will care anymore. Nintendo doesnt deserve it.
Thank you. I've been there for over 6 years. I refuse all Nintendo products and I don't even have an interest in playing anything those criminals put out.
Just wait until the Switch 2 comes out. Nintendo fans are the videogame equivalent of Disney adults
When it comes to Nintendo. Piracy is moral
@@e2rqeyas if Xbox and sony fans aren't equally bad
@@MorfsProweri would personally see what the culture is in Japan before just blaming them for stuff. whats bad here may not be bad there and vice versa im not trying to defend anyone im just going to keep an open .mind and try to understand cultural differences
Pokemon company, and nintendo has gotten way to big for thier britches. I think it's time for fans to actively decry this type of behavior with thier wallets.
Agreed.
Stop buying and stoop using nintendo products.
Tell that to the impressionable children that have no idea and don't care to learn, and the parents which don't pay enough attention to know any better.
@@MorfsPrower not saying you don't have a point, but nintendo shareholders take any loss of revenue as a lesson. Doing absolutley nothing isn't an option either.
why don't we just start calling Nintendo a monopoly I'm getting sick and tired of Nintendo thinking they are the origin of the capture system there are probably games lost to history what have all the same systems what Pokémon has and they are way older I do know of some games what have similar systems to Pokémon but right now I'm talking about games what has all the systems
SMT did monster/demon capturing way before Nintendo and Pokemon
Google was just declared a monopoly. Hows that going, anything happen? No? So why bother?
@@bobbybologna3029 They are literally in active litigation as we speak. The courts don't hand out speedy resolutions on issues as big as google.
Everything is a copy of something, wish they could cut this crap out. Music, gaming, storywise, codes and so forth
I do think the main reason for this lawsuit is Pocket Pair's deal with Sony and trying to ultra expand the brand, not the game itself.
I do not even play Palworld, but if Nintendo & the PKMN company get away with this I'm never buying a Pokémon game ever again.
i gifted 2 copies of palworld instead of getting the new zelda
probably shouldve gotten zelda since they're getting that money anyway
Again proving that you should never give corporations your money, specially ones like Nintendo.
Your money isn't going to the devs and workers anyway. There are other ways of getting them you know...
Patent law is horse manure and holds back innovation and competition.
Even if nintendo don't win they'll be sapping resources from pocket pair, a much smaller company to fight it in court which will likely end up killing the game anyway.
It would be a shame if the game dies as a result. It's a good game that did something unique within the monster catcher space.
Patent fishing like this sucks.
This is a blatant 'bleed them' strategy where Nintendo has practiacally limitless money to throw at this case just to essentially bankrupt Pocketpair or force them into a settlement.
I don't think its about winning or losing. It's about crushing a rival before they they grow out of control. Whatever they are suing over is probably so vague and such an industry and/or genre standard that effectively pointless and invalid. But the point is to bleed PocketPair.
Palworlds is teaming up with sony. So sony vs nintendo fight
If i heard right
Don't forget Microsoft is also backing them too with having them on their platform. This battle is for the sake of the industry at this point.
@@Sparticulous Get your popcorn ready and make a backup of Palworld, just in case
Patents should not be a thing in software (it shouldn't be a thing period, but I digress).
There's already license in the code and copyright/trademark for assets, if they can achieve the same effect with a different code that should absolutely not stand legal ground.
Almost all code people learn nowadays is shit smart ppl figured out years ago, and we basically reuse their ideas to make new stuff, copyrighting code never made sense to me
Nintendo doing exactly what everyone expected them to do.
So why is everyone MAD? "That dog likes to bite people who steals it's food.. Oh, snap it bit someone who stole its food." **Everyone gets Angry at Dog**
The issue is patents and not Nintendo. Apple famously patented a rectangle shape with rounded corners, and they used that fiercely against Samsung.
Whole thing is just bullyboy tactics from corps at this point against as smaller rival. Apple realised fighting Samsung would have cost too much
Important note: the “expert” was a random anonymous guy on Twitter with a brand new account.
I can’t see what kind of patent Nintendo could hold that Palworld has breached which isn’t also breached by most AAA games.
I personally don't think nintendo is threatened by the game. It's threatened by it's potential to sell merch. Nintendo pretty much dominates that with their pokemon plushes but Palworld could very much start selling their own merch and perhaps they don't want to see Pikachu plushes right next to Grizzbolt plushes being on shelves and want to avoid havign to deal with this situation by simply removing the game from existance... Because if there's no game, there is no merch either.
How kind of Nintendo to give pockerpair free toilet paper, they should send it back, after being used of course.
Paying for anything Nintendo is immoral
-posted from my third world “safely” mined cobalt technology. It’s not immoral to sue someone if you have a legit beef
@troybiiko says a guy with a wardrobe of shirts from asian sweatshops....we can do this irrelevant shit all day. you probably buy used games from gamestop, meat from industrial farms, and cheap chinese knockoff products. Welcome to life in the modern world, put on a helmet
Wouldn't it interesting if Nintendo faced a TON of backlash for going after an Indie dev for making a superior game?
Wouldn't it be interesting if Nintendo ended up backing down because their customers got pissed to the point that they lost millions?
it'd be funny. we should all do a little trolling and give nintendo massive backlash.
It would be interesting for sure, but the majority of Consumers just don´t care. They just want the next Pokemon-, Zelda- or Mario-Game.
You have to remember that you are in the Bubble of "Interested in Video Games beyond just playing them".
We are sadly the minority in this case.
We have to talk to those People and "convince" them that it´s not just playing a Game but it also is "Corporatism/Politics".
But the moment you mention those kind of things many people stop listening. For them Games are "just" timewasters, unfortunately.
Good luck, Nintendo die hards have been eating that shit for years. They wont stop now.
@@sureberferber9101 nintendo fans don't care
You can hurt a billion dollar company with even a hundred thousand (proverbial) bullets. It'd be like you having $12 and attempting to outdo someone with $12,000. No matter WHAT goal you're both attempting, you've already lost, suckah! 😂🤣😂
Be rich. If you can't, then accept that you're a loser. No exceptions.
Well, that's Nintendo losing more sales. If they want to take part in making garbage games, and then take down something like Palworld for any reason, I'd done with their stuff.
Man I do wonder what kind of a crazy awesome world we would live in if super rich companies couldn't abuse copywrite and patents to squash competitors and innovation.
so basically your Telling me the only Way that Pocket Pair "loses" is if they run out of Money, but didn't Pocket Pair just Partner with Sony Music Entertainment? so whos to say Sony won't just throw their Lawyers on the case? i am Very curious to see where this whole thing goes.
Then we will see Nintendo slowly back away
This just scream monopolizing behavior. I have a feeling nintendo is about too have their asses handed too them as mechanics can not be copyrighted.
They aren't suing for copyright infringement.
@@zirconiumdiamond1416 don't matter. Patents can't be used too restrict game mechanics either as it creates a monopoly on how a game can function. Nintendo has no legs too stand on here and are getting too greedy for their own good. Even if they win they have lost any future support from me as a gamer.
@@crimsondragon1794 game mechanics can be patented, as Belleur indicated in talking about the Nemesis system. Most likely, Pocket Pair will just need to tweak the game a little bit to work around the patent, just as other games have worked around the Nemesis patent.
@@zirconiumdiamond1416 not ones as vague as aiming and throwing. as well as mounting a creature. those are TOO generic too be patented. and the date on the patents make it clear this is mainly an attempt by pokemon to shut down competition. so no you can't patent mechanics. even the nemisis system was considered a failure of the courts as by allowing the copy righting or patenting of a mechanic it especially a generic mechanic like throwing, aiming and riding a creature. you essentially lock indie developers out of the industry altogther. this patent is therefor an illegal patent. and should be dismissed entirely.
not too mention the dates on the patent prove it was only applied for under the premise they could use it too take down a major competitor in palworld. this case is shakey at best and will not be upheld by any court as a legal case.
@@crimsondragon1794 my guess is that if anyone dug into the patents, they would see that the claims are actually a lot more narrow than "aiming and throwing". Every game with grenades would be prior art. So, maybe Pocket Pair will have to make pal spheres an area of effect thing that tries to capture every pal in the area. That might also be pretty cool.
Well, the creator of those model comparisons forged the evidence, which is something they admitted them self, so it was never even a case to begin with.
I see this becoming a weird ideological issue where indie devs and streamers express support for PalWorld while AAA devs and shills express support for Nintendo
You know everyone not on the consumers side will side with Nintendo it keeps both the ad revenue going and the free perks
@Eltener123 thing is, some of the possible patents being "infringed" affect even the big AAA companies.
Remember that immortal fenyx rising use to be names God's and Monsters, but changed because monster energy threw a hissy fit. The attempted copyright of "saga"(granted this was against a smaller company, but like...seriously) . BS does happens between the big companies, it's just less damaging compared to smaller companies.
Digimon , Bugsnax , Cassette Beasts , Coromon , Suikoden , Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon , Slime Rancher , Shin Megami Tensei , Ooblets , Monster Hunter Stories , Ark: Survival Evolved , Monster Crown , World Of Final Fantasy , Ni No Kuni , Jade Cocoon , Monster Sanctuary , Yu-Gi-Oh! , Yo-Kai Watch , Dragon Quest , Nexomon , Temtem ... just entered the Chat asking Nintendo "WHAT THE FRAK your on right now??!!!"
Absolute scumbag Nintendo patenting some basic-ass mechanics and then only suing when another company puts out a game that actually challenges them. Because why compete when you can just sue any legitimate competitors out of your niche and then continue putting out low-effort slop unchallenged.
2:50 Not sure how this would play in a Japanese court, or in a scenario where a model was actually ripped and not reconstructed, but in the US parody can be a defense to copyright. And I do think its clear that there is some parody in Palworld's DNA, just look at the cooking with pals vid they released.
patent != copyright :)
@@Leavannah I realize that. If you click on the timestamp I linked, Bellular is speaking about copyright, and how he feels that would have been a better case for Nintendo. He mentions copyright specifically at 3:30 "Today's statement from Nintendo and the Pokemon Company is not what we expected, because it does not talk about copyright infringement..."
Pokémon are just cartoon versions are real life animals, myths, and objects. You can't copy right all cartoon animals.
Palworld is not parody though, this argument is valid in cases where they are doing a parody of a thing, like if they released a video making fun of nintendo and it had a fat mario character in it. But its very clear that Palworld is marketing and selling itself as being its own intellectual property. And Parody as a defense also sort of ties your hands a bit because you are essentially admitting that X character is actually meant to be a direct reference/copy/parody of Y piece of IP from the plaintiff. An admission which could come back to bite you in other parts of the lawsuit if your Parody claims aren't upheld.
They would need to jump through some huge loops to get parody to fit if they were sued for copyright infringement.
Pretty sure Japan doesn’t have any laws protecting parodies
If Nintendo wins this suit they basically own the entire monster catching genre every single game with catching mechanics will be at the mercy of Nintendo lawyers its unprecedented in the game industry this is actually worse than any Sweetbaby or DEI trash being infused into games it affects the entire industry we need to unite and push this back.
You catch monsters in wow, which was better than any pokemon game anyway. The mini game was garbage in wow but wonder why that was ok this not?
@@Jabarri74 They are jealous of Palworld success because it was directly compared to their recent Pokemon games, there is a game called Temtem which is a lot more similar to Pokemon as a direct competitor than Pallworld and its avaliable on Nintendo Switch it was not successful as Pokemon so they just ignore its existence and even sell it on their console.
@@AlisterEmyka Maybe they should have just made Pokeworld
@@AlisterEmyka Atlus and Bandai beat them though, Shjn Megami Tensei is 4 years older then pokemon as a creature collector.
@@Jabarri74 Because WOW doesnt blatantly steal assets from pokemon
I wouldn't be surprised if you told me that Nintendo controls the courts over there.
I wrote this before I watched the video.
Another patent that has hurt us all is the pattern for sideloaded mini games during loading screens. Assassins creed somehow went around it letting you run around while loading in a part of the game that was preloaded but sideloading mini games for long loading times was a patent that really hurt the industry and was only made null a couple years ago.
Though now it is no longer important as loading times have gone down and ssd’s are cheap but image all the cool mini game we could have had devs incorporate to make the wait a bit sweeter back then.
Why can't Nintendo just learn and grow? They always feel like making changes need to be extreme and they don't. They can be subtle realities we all come to understand as adults that become the change. There's major things that set them both apart so this is so dumb. I know this probably means making the game available on switch… possibly a Pokemon game equally entertaining with gun violence eliminated? Idk I just can't stand that Nintendo strong arms their way through a successful dev team that just wanted to bring more people into a monster hunting/collecting genre.
"Perhaps I'm out of touch and need to make better games."
~Pokemon Skarlet / Violet sells over 24 million copies~
"Nah, I'll just sue my competition."
It is morally right to pirate anything the Pokémon company makes
Pal world is pokemon for adults. They have a huge market to capitalize on. As pokemon likes to ignore their non child audience.
People are going to forget all about this in two weeks lol
That's the best part. They know it's true.
From childhood memories to pure cancer: Nintendo.
Ok, fine... Columbia pictures should sue nintendo for the concept of capturing creatures into a tiny container.
Nintendo seems to be similar to a benevolent dictator when it comes to their patents; they're more than happy to let people use their patents for free without complaint - unless you piss them off. Then, the weaponizers patents against you if they can't nail you on anything else.
Granted, that could be a defense for Palworld (depending on the patents they've breached) since they could list the sheer number of games that use those patents without permission across the industry, and argue Nintendo hasn't been enforcing their own patents, and therefore should be open domain. Granted, that does not seem to be a valid reason, and I'm not a lawyer.
But what _might_ apply is the age of the patent; it seems that patents only lasts somewhere between 14-20 years, depending on the type. I'm curious to know what patents they breached since Pokemon has been around for longer than that.
Warner Bros secured patent for Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system back in 2021 just as a FYI.
Nintendo most likely wins through attrition. Total strongarm tactics.
If a superficial resemblance to a preexisting patent is all that it takes to justify a lawsuit. The entire internet would be sueing itself. This is why fair use is so important.
A lot of these patented concepts also probably have some prior degree of development in the broader world of art potentially going back centuries. F whoever wrote the regs the patent office follows, F the patent office, and F the courts. The courts are frequently a very silly institution when dealing with concepts that exist out of the professional realm.
17th. Also yeah that is just crazy. I can understand Nintendo protecting their copyright, but protecting a pattern!?
They tried to pattern the building techniques in the most recent Zelda.
"Anti trust law suit anyone?" said the european parliament.
If Nintendo wins, then we're one step closer to the dystopia ending
you are talking about videogames where this stuff happens all the time by every major player, what makes this different?
Nintendo doesn't have the patent for cats and foxes
Nintendo can't sleep well at night knowing some 7 year old child is humming the Mario overworld theme without their permission out there, somewhere.
The thing is that the people who were saying that the models matched lied, the guy who showcased it said he scaled them up to match them up because he didn't like palworld.
Some of the models are still very, very close in design. However, if it was enough to file a lawsuit on Nintendo would have done so rather than filing over patents.
my age, I will permanently know Nintendo as legal hawks. I don't want to remember anything they do anymore. They've permanently damaged their reputation to me.
You gotta assume Bowser and Gandorf are seen as the heroes in Nintendo's eyes.
So with this logic, From Soft should be suing every dev that copies the “souls like” gameplay. Ridiculous. Nintendo pisses me off with their anti consumer practices.
This patent case opens the door for further copyright litigation.
Whatever Nintendo's justification, as long as grown ass adults continue blindly supporting and defending a corporation that is constantly doing things that are not just anticonsumer, but also making the videogame industry just straight up worse.This will continue to happen.
They shouldn't have ever gotten those patents in the first place. Nintendo can do this becuase the Japanese court is going to back them no matter what against a foreign company. I'd just stop selling Palworld in Japan and force Nintedo to try and defend any of this nonsense in US court.
pocketpair is also japanese
the lesson here is dont antagonize people who can and will sue you into slavery.
They 100% think palworld is a threat. Why innovate and make good pokemon games to compete with competition when you can just prevent competition?
or just think of similar mechanics without just copying homework? (mechanically speaking)
If this lawsuit succeeds then I am strongly considering never paying for another nintendo product in my life. I don't want my purchases to fund this kind of legal intimidation.
Wait... Wouldn't every game that came out before Pokemon to allow a player to toss out a grenade invalidate 80% to 90% of the pokeball patent?
not really, a grenade works a little different to how pokeballs work, the last time I checked.