In 'older' Western/ European culture people said "you needed to be a master of both the pen and the sword."(in Spain) and “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.” in Greece.
One contributing factor, at least pertaining to the influence of the west, is the fact that there was a significant pushback to showing masculine Asian male sex symbols in western media. The best example of this is how Sessue Hayakawa was treated. For a really long time, Asian males were depicted as sly villains or amiable sidekicks. This still resonates to an extent even today.
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
It's what Hollywood, western media propaganda does. When they saw immigrants from asia settling in more and also having the chance to marry "their" white women, they were intimidated like they are by most immigrants and their culture. Just look at how Asian men are either only cast as an aging monk or kungfu master, and in desexualizing asian men they in turn hypersexualize the asian women. Just watch East Asian movies and you will such good-looking men in their media, and many of them are masculine too , I'm not talking about Korean pop boy idols, who go for those asthetics that are considered more feminine. There are buff guys so called "masculine" men all over east asia (masculine is not just physical thing tho) but they are not sought after to become a movie star. Imagine if timothee chalamet or Finn wolfhard were considered the ideal standard in western culture, we would hardly see Jason Momoa or Rock in the pictures then... That's what's happening in east asian pictures, that overly muscular buff guys are not considered as attractive as the more elegant refined looking men in women's/audience eyes..
As a non-Asian lay Sinologist, you couldn't get more masculine than Guan Yu (关羽). Killed a bully from his village, joined the army and was so feared in awe for his military prowess he ended up being made a god. And his long flowing beard and his high threshold for pain (playing chess while an arrow is being retrieved from his injured arm), known for his ardent loyalty to the brotherhood, the guy was scarily Masculine and proper Alpha, a symbol of Masculinity. Wasn't Lu Bu (吕布) both proper Wen (文) in a sense and Wu (武)？If I remember correctly, he was dashingly handsome and even the three heroic brothers of the three kingdoms could not defeat him on horseback! China can be ultra masculine or 武 but from my observation, traditionally have a tendency to hide or not be showy about such traits. Must be why old China had the saying 外圆内方 (Google is your friend 🙂)
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing
Lu Bu , a mixture of both Wen and Wu? HELL NO, Lu Bu was a great fighter, perhaps the strongest warrior in the three kingdoms. He was the epitome of "Wu", but he was the classic brute who was greedy and disloyal, and he fell because of his treacherous past. Cao Cao was unwilling to take the risk of having Lu BU as a subordinate, since he could betray and rebel against him, just as he did against his past stepfathers.
You guys should add in non-Chinese guests to offer insights on other Asian countries. Personally, as a Filipino I’d love to see more southeast Asian topics. Still love all the content you guys post!
@@josephimperatrice5552 Again as someone who is 100% Pinoy I can say with full confidence that neither I or anyone in my big ass family have ever been mistaken for Chinese (maybe my family and I are outliers like we are with our 6'0+ height, for instance I am 6'2 as mentioned in the other comment thread we spoke on). If anything people mistake the men in my family as well as myself for our Austronesian brothers, the Samoans or Hawaiians. Us Pinoys have very different genetics, linguistics, phenotypes, body types, and not to mention skin color than the Chinese. If people were to mistake a Filipino for Chinese it is more than likely due to racism and ignorance as well as maybe a dash of uneducation.
@@Boondoxx I 100% agree, my twin brother and uncle are constantly mistaken for Samoan because of their larger builds, non round faces, and darker skins.
Masculinity in the West isn't "thought" about. That's the whole point. The whole "I'm going to be logical and sound like a nerd breaking down social norms" is exactly what "Western masculinity" DOES NOT do and/or isn't preoccupied with. Masculinity is about the thought process (or lack thereof) as much as it is the physical projection.
Exactly. Imagine James Bond sitting down with women and trying to break down sexuality and social norm without realizing how "uncool" it is lol, instead of just embodying his sexuality through flirtatious expression with women. Attraction is not negotiable.
@@neoleegdg Yeah, there's a diff between observing, experiencing, testing and fine-tuning approaches that work for you through real-world 'practice' (aka dating a shit ton of diff types of people, etc) and THEN thinking back in retrospect about how you (from experience) and others in your 'group' (Asian friends) may've been perceived/differ etc (keeping in-mind the multitude of variables - such as geographical, physique, personality type, lifestyle, etc etc etc). But problem is...most of the people that do talk about this type of stuff have little to zero actual real-world experience to draw from (small sample size w/ limited variety within). And then they extrapolate based on that 2 people they've dated. Or worse...they've come from a bubble type environment (aka predominately Asian only communities/friends). -_- I don't mind the nerdy shit (quantifying the 'masculine' attitude is one thing, but actually experiencing it, practicing it, is completely different). Same goes for stating what groups of people may think of 'your kind'. You can quantify the attitude of a non-Asian on-paper, but it's much diff when you actually experience dating hundreds/thousands of women of various kinds of various background/intensions/personalities. At the end of the day...the art of it is something these turds can't account for.
@@ajtam05 Yeah, and having a cool, interesting personality, which is an expression of non-conformism or the perception of it (why David Bowie, Prince and many rock stars are sought after and despite their so called "feminine look"); oozing unapologetic sexuality and fun; and knowing how to flirt with women from all walks of life cannot be any more opposite from having a collectivistic attitude and constant self-consciousness of how others think of you and "your kind" and the many nerdy retort that "we have the money and/or are smart, why can't we get all the women", which kinda just proves the point.
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
Again he was from England and was bisexual... again you are using feminine guys as a norm lol and you are below that norm so you are justifying. So funny
The hand picking of examples is definitely a huge factor when people make these wide sweeping statements. It reinforces stereotypes, which I think people are too comfortable accepting
It's pretty simple. The more free testosterone coursing through your veins, the more masculine your physical traits will be. East Asia has the lowest levels of free testosterone so naturally, biologically, the physical traits of East Asian men are on average less masculine.
I am from north africa and I was into kpop when I showed my favorite kpop group, dbsk to my frineds they all said that they look like girls, I thought that they just haters but when I grow up and grow out that phase I realized that they did have point.. While 2pm and dbsk were considered as manly kpop idols back then, in west they would be veiwed as feminine men
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
@@LeahDyson-kq4bd he's just copy pasting random stuff to replies. No one considers the 5'4 latino man as aggressive. The only latinos known for being decently masculine are the spanish latinos lmao. Truth though in the american one.
I went over to watch her video first, thanks for respecting her knowledge and delivery, there’s a reason why there’s over 100k+ views on the vid. Then I came back to watch yours. Both are insightful. In 2022 and beyond, there is no right or wrong way to be a man, woman or what gender you identify with. The debates on “what is masculinity” baffles me. Be yourself, find fulfillment because life is short. Especially in the west, where David did mention… diversity exists. You can choose your own character. Aren’t you glad you don’t live in China? I live in the western world too, and while there are issues and it’s not perfect - there isn’t one ideal of masculinity/femininity… both are social constructs and only affect you if you choose to let them dictate how you live your life.
China began to emphasize literature over martial arts in the Song Dynasty and stopped promoting masculinity. Because the importance of the imperial examinations was elevated, literary talent often became the most sought-after male temperament. To this day, students who are at the top of their academic game in school tend to receive attention like superstars, while those who excel in sports do not, and these school cultures are almost the exact opposite of the United States. In ancient China, a muscular and rugged appearance was often described as negative, and it was the refined and handsome male appearance that was more popular with women. So the positive words used to describe male appearance in Chinese were often“儒雅”“一表人才”“温润” and in ancient times, even the words used to describe women were used to compliment a beautiful man.
I ain't Chinese; but a 1st Generation South East Asian American male with a hardcore military background. I never had any issues dating girls of all races. I can kick ass, trained in mixed martial arts, trained in firearms combat tactical maneuvers, about 5'5 height, and lastly I ain't feminine. I am a tough knuckleheaded U.S. Jarhead who dated mostly white girls my entire life. Every time Asian girls say Asian man are too girly; I laugh my butt off and tell them they can ask all my White ex-gfs on how they liked me as a Asian man. Black, Hispanic, White, and Asian girls loved me every time I mingled with them; not because I was a hotshot Chad. It was because I was a strong leader with a clear ambition and a man with a prestigious legacy that I want to leave behind. I would love Fung Bros to invite me for a podcast or a video shoot of me getting girls phone numbers off the street to show that Asian guys femininity is all *Bullcrap.**However I don't think my wife would want me to go back to being a *Super Chad* trying to get girls phone numbers. LOL!
Dude, you just come across as one of those college frat boys bragging about your body count, all while being married. Any half decent ABC can date outside the race. I'm Asian and grew in Europe, we are literally surrounded by more whites than our own race.
Bro c’mon, from one short guy to another, if you say about 5’5, you know you’re 5’4. Let’s be proud of it or don’t draw attention to it, but let’s not lie about it.
@@henrytep8884 5'5 was my legal height since I am only less than 1 centimeters from hitting it. I ain't 5'4 flat as well since I measured my height plenty of times already. My proximity height correlates to 5'5 since our State ID does not measure per decimals.
not to cut you down but the things you listed don’t really show case that much masculinity. it shows you’re about average as men in your class weight as your job dictates you to be. you didn’t say why you joined the military either which doesn’t necessarily make you masculine either for just being in service. i say this because not everyone that’s apart of the military is a leader. when most people consider masculine they think of opposite of the role of women. most people flock towards goals they can obsess about. i’m south east asian too but i actually studied propaganda and the only way to win is to not play thee games of who is and isn’t based on where they’re from or what they look like or what they do. you’re dealing with stereotypes and with the power of the internet you’ve played the short game by trying to fit where you belong based on the parameters of the propaganda. people don’t realize you can’t win against propaganda with more propaganda because people put their mindsets into bubbles and echo chambers just like how group think happens.
While I'm not a fan of nationalism, I must point out that there has in fact been a systemic push for Asians to be emasculated. We can talk about colonialism. We can talk about orientalism. We can talk about military occupation. We can talk about American race relations and representation. We can talk about geopolitics. And we can even talk about the far-right forums and imageboards.
@@bishop51807 I would say that she had a mild critique of the CCP's attempt to promote masculinity. My rebuttal is that there is, to whatever extent, a legitimate need to pushback against the aforementioned systemic factors.
Hey I also saw her video on China's soft power. But I am not quite confident in my assessments, do you think she is in the anti-china camp or the pro-china camp? She seem to be objective so far, what are your thoughts??
Broad shoulders and narrow waist (29 inches) works on women everywhere - I'm sure. Even short guys like me get eyes with that look. I know because, I used to get the stares, touches, comments, and smiles from all types of women - Asians too - when I had it. Two Korean guys told me that I would be considered too big in Korean culture, but I can tell you, the Korean girls (Korea born) here, had no problem noticing and appreciating my physique. That was about 10 years ago now. I'm sure it's the same. Asian babes, notice the broad shoulders and narrow waist. But it's not necessarily an easy look to keep. It's greatly masculine to them.
@@BladeAurora This one is not an easy exercise, but the best one for me for that broad shoulder look was wide grip pull-ups behind the neck. (If you can do 8 good ones, your shoulder will already look broad.) I was 20 lbs lighter and put a 10lbs weight in my weight belt. You don't have to do that. (If you're too heavy, use a stick across the backs of two chairs and do pull up from your butt off the ground. Be careful.) That said, all shoulder exercises help though. ...Lat raises like you mentioned- go wide if you can, dumbbell raises - to the side especially, upright rows - point elbows out to the side, shrugs, wide pull-ups to the front also, etc... Good Luck
@@psychedamike Yes. That's true. But losing weight counts too. That's the small waist part. They concept works together. I weight some 20 to 25 lbs less by way of my diet. I had a 29 inch waist. That's really small. A lot of guys can get a 32 inch waist. That's small too. But your right about building the shoulders. That said, having big shoulders and a big waist is not what I'm talking about. That's just big.
I agree and disagree. Asian men has small frame in most case as comparison to any other ethnicity. I used to date 2 Korean guys , one who was not muscled at all but was big in body build and was 185 in height and other one who was 165 and had smaller frame than me even tho my height is 158. On pictures it was more than visible and I am considered a small woman in the west.He used to date another white girl before and when I saw one of the pictures he was shorter than her and looked like a baby . She never had se3 with him during 4 years of knowing each other. I do believe it's because women are rarely se3ually aroused by men who are smaller than them. Tbh I wasn't attracted to him physically as much as I was to my first bf who got me aroused just by looking at him . I felt protected and feminine but with second one se3 was still good and pleasurable just not as good as the first one who felt more masculine to me. It doesn't matter for me in the end but it's undeniable that it does make a difference for most people.
Re: Korea and Japan "having more lanes" than the PRC I definitely agree that they have more lanes, but I think the simultaneously strict and remarkably ambiguous censorship guidelines in the PRC result in people and companies looking at whatever "works" and does not get censored, and then emulating it because it's a safe bet.
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
@@pikachuthunderbolt3919 You started your reply with "Nope", but I don't really see where your comment disagrees with mine. As for the rest of your comment, I'm not sure that's supported by historical record. Also, contemporary music today is _very_ diverse, and an artist does not necessarily even need to use spoken words at all in order to be successful, let alone "female abusing words".
I think most people forget when they were growing up watching old Japanese, Chinese and Asian movies. The men back in those days were very very masculine looking, you could daydream and just daydream more more about them, but in today's society we don't have those type of guys these days. what we have is BTS or effeminate looking Asian men as representative of Asia. Correct me if I'm wrong.
BTS makes money, girls and women largely like em even if you don't. Money talks and if girls say and date dudes like that, more guys are going to be inclined to look like that. BTS isn't that feminine at all tbh despite the aesthetic. Despite being glammed up, they are fit af.
@@Drownedinblood women are sold the dream by mass media. BTS feminine boy band types are pushed. But when a woman dates that type of guy they will find them annoying incompetent feminine unable to protect them in certain situations. Women will lose respect for that fem guy and will resort to bullying him and bad behaviour. Eventually when she realizes hes a pushover she will learn her lesson and move on. Womans attraction triggers are bilogical you cant change those things
@@funkthat A guy who takes care of themselves doesn't automatically mean pushover. You live in a weird universe where that's true, if anything it's seen as a sign that he's found funds to fund those spa treatments or whatever. Are you going to kill him and take his woman?
@@Drownedinbloodthey are plastic af, and so are the women in kpop. The standard to look like a kpop star is much harder to reach than the standard of putting on a little bit of muscle. There’s a study that was conducted by okcupid that determined women think 80% of men are ugly, so that already filters out a large portion of the population of men from being able to meet the standard kpop look. This standard is definitely unsustainable and is mainly driven by profit motive from the music industry to sell a product, which is an unrealistically perfect beauty standard. This is possible because women have way more economic power then they ever had in the past (not saying this is a bad thing) which in turns allow the music industry to construct a product that is popular and profitable. But then again the birth rate in Asian countries can be one outcome of this standard, of course another factor that leads to this outcome is economic. I’m just making assumptions about the outcome but it hits on why some people may criticize these new standards.
I used to find masculine men more attractive until I started following Wang Yibo, who is probably the most attractive man I have ever seen. He definitely has a handsome but still softer look that is incredibly hot and attractive. So softer can still be really desirable to a lot of women. It just doesn't fit the western beauty standards.
It is important to understand western perceptions of beauty dominated bc and only bc westerners held the hedgemony in this world. If that falters than people will see more and more "others" rise in importance.
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
Yeah, learning a lot about asian culture and asian american perspective is really opening my eyes to their struggles. I had no idea the differences in oppression they have compared to black and brown people and why this oppression came into place. Sidenote: I had no idea the sort of racism against asian men in the dating world until now, I thought they were so lucky to be the ones white people speak so highly of.
The video Aini did do is definitely about citing the extreme and also quite a deeply rooted cultural construct that's in Western and Eastern, that is mostly she's referring to Chinese, Japanese and Korean, cultures. The main difference as to why she didn't, and the theories she references for her analysis, cite people like David Bowie, Timothy Chalamet, Prince, etc. is because these men represent the subcultures of their eras and the new wave of inclusiveness today, versus the still present heteronormative expectations of the ideal Western masculine figure, still found among Jason Momoa, Tom Cruise, etc. With the rise of Eastern (Japan, China and South Korea) pop media, their ideals and ways of depicting male figures, however, did borrow some tropes from the West, particularly from American culture because most of the mid to late 20th century, the USA has had a major impact cultural wise because of their imperialism and the diaspora that resulted from the previous Major Wars. But of course with the passage of time and the big 3 countries of East Asia honing their craft in presenting to the world their pop cultures as well as getting to know their ever widening audience, this has made a gradual shift from the (mostly American) Western ideal to questioning why masculinity and expectations of it have to be so rigid and idealizes only a certain type of male figure. Hence why there were subcultures in the late 20th century, the reasons why we had a David Bowie and now, Timothee Chalamet and BTS.
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
The issue with Asian masculinity is perception in the first place in that there is a way to make it negative no matter what side of the coin it is. Not long ago Asian men were stereotyped as hyper aggressive and masculine which got categorized as "yellow peril". We are currently living through the "model minority" era which was just the opposite of that one. Look up schroedinger's Asian man or Schroedingers China to know what I mean. The fact Asian people ourselves hold and enforce this type of double standard fucks us up. What I mean is, if an Asian guy was masculine in the western sense, an Asian woman in particular might call them ugly or look too aggressive, toxic, etc. something negative but same look, white or even black and suddenly it's attractive and the "feminine" look becomes the accepted norm and people think that's the ONLY way someone Asian can look. Aini actually has a point in that people think western masculinity is the objective norm, and it seems like you guys and people in the comments aren't immune to this. Chinese masculinity as you even described it yourself is about balance, and idk what's actually wrong with that. Also you guys should know damn well not all white dudes look like Hemsworth or all these other stars. What you are describing about balance is already being done in western media with variety of different looking white guys presented as love interests. Also, look at how zoomers and millenials dress now, it'd be "feminine" in some eyes right and nothing at all like what Hemsworth and Mamoa look like. Also goes back to my point above, reason why people don't think it looks "right" is because it's not presented as normal enough. Basically balance and variety is what we should be striving for. Never be caught in one end or the other and let nuance exist.
The average American male does not look like Sylvester Stallone or the Rock. They might want to look like that but it’s just a fantasy. Secondly, the average woman is not looking for that in a partner. They might be looking for a tall dude, but not a pro wrestler. I think there is a disconnect between what men think women want and what women actually want.
I'm non-Chinese and I wasn't aware of Chinese men being seen as feminine. It's probably because I've seen a lot more Chinese in person than I've seen Chinese men in the Hollywood movies. Actually, there are very few Hollywood movies that have Chinese men.
Agree actually. Most of those portrayed as Chinese men are not from China but some southeast asian country or Japan. Theres almost no Chinese men but few Chinese women, and most of the native Chinese actresses arent short even when compare to the North European actresses, so obviously Chinese actors will similar scenario lol
The pretty boys that girls like always have very good genetics. It isn't just about the hair and the make-up. Most men couldn't do the prettyboy look that girls like
TBH I really doubt that the 'roids archtype is what girls dream for. Just take a look on love movies, usually destinated to a feminine audience, you'll rarely find a Jason Momoa as the protagonist, it is more likely to find: George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Keanu Reeves, Jason Priestley, Patrick Dempsey, Johnny Depp, Leonardo di Caprio, Bradely Cooper.
But those guys aren’t really feminine. They’re just not super muscular like a lot of the action stars. You would never see them wearing makeup outside of filming except maybe Johnny Depp. Or you won’t see them wearing feminine looking clothes.
Yes. There's nothing wrong with that, that's just the culture. The most desired asian guys are those K-Pop and like groups... which are basically the Boy Bands of the 90's and early 00's... and they were kinda effeminate too then. It's just the tastes... it can change too and they can go out of desirability as well.
Kpop main target are teen girls, so off course they would have young effeminate boys to cater to the young girls, I was fan of kpop when I was teen but I out grow it and when I see new kpop idols I am not interested in them as I used to be when I was kid
And women preference and taste changes over time as they age, just like anyone actually. That’s how life works, the music industry just found the optimal product to sell to women especially younger women, but it’s not a good reflection of what overall leads to successful relationships because it’s more holistic than just looks and entertainment talent. Hell, for most men, learning how to make women laugh is sometimes more effective than looking good, but I’ll let y’all judge that one.
It’s the pale, white skin. Pale skin is more attributed to female beauty. But I wouldn’t just say this is a Chinese men issue but Asian men in general. We’re typically smaller in stature compared to other men of color so we’re not seen as masculine. But what us Asian men can do to make up for our disadvantages, are to level up in all facets of our lives - money, muscles, and game.
Correction: **East Asian** Us Mainland and Island Southeast Asians are the furthest thing from pale lol. For us it is probably more of the stature (even though I am a 6'2 outlier) as well as face shape. But 100% agree there are plenty of different ways to level up. Cheers brother, stay safe happy as well as blessed.
I agree, also heres a thought too, pale skin is typically not associated with health and vitality or virility or strength. Palesness is more associated with sickness, weakness, death and scary super natural stuff.
Filipino men are also not considered manly and they not pale, will indian men are dark but they also short and skinny on average but they not considered as feminine men
@@sakurakou2009 I am a 6'2 Pinoy and I have never had anyone think I am feminine, nor any of the men in my family have dealt with that either lol. Thats wild.
Living in Asia, I thought many Asian men were gay but they turned out to be straight. The tells like flamboyant clothes, no body hair, higher voice, aren't normal tells in most asian countries
I thought the same when I moved to the west first. That white guys were all gay. All muscle on their arms but fat on their legs and belly, big eyes and short tempered. You guys can’t even look masculine or less feminine without pubes on your face. Typically guys with beards and stocky/muscly builds in asia are viewed as gay because most girls like lean guys with a clean face and sharp jaw in asia.
I wouldn't say the west entirely, I think in many places in Europe guys also like to look more like Kpop guys or Jpop guys. However, in America, you definitely do see the popular look for guys is more like that wilderness, lumberjack hipster types. I've never liked the American guy type of look. When I lived in Japan I definitely felt more at home since they prefer the lean/well dressed type of look.
@@CoolNumber1Eastern Europeans are some of the most socially conservative, chauvinistic people on the planet. There’s no way you can ascribe Asian masculinity trait as being popular in these nations. The men thrive on this fact, for instance look how Putin is portrayed in media. But if you want to say this is common in that region of the world then it’s exponentially more common in western societies. There’s more example, I can even recall Andrew Tate in Romania being a great example of the type of men, women prefer in those countries. But whatever, only my opinion, probably close to reality than your comment though.
As a european chick, I agree to the fit and well dressed part, but I dont know any women in my circle who likes these child/girl-like Kpop faces. They really look like girls to me...I cant even say women but straight up children. Its wild. There is no character in the face...its just a smooth blank thing and I am sorry if this hits some stereotype/racial nerve but these k-pop folks, or even alot of young east asian actors: they really look very much alike. I know not all east asians look the same but the media really has a narrow selection there.
@@henrytep8884 "...some of the most socially conservative, chauvinistic people on the planet." Have you been in east asian societies before???? Dude they are conservative...I dont mind it, just saying.
I ran across your channel a few weeks ago. Really like the conversations and topics. With regards to this topic, I gotta say that I've played a role in branding Asian men from China, Korea, and Japan very feminine. I'm from LA and I have friends whose parents are from Asia and they look very different - more masculine. Especially my buddies who are from Lincoln Hts and Chinatown. I'll also add that I'm Latino so our definition of what it means to be masculine is very western. I'll be hitting Tokyo for the first time this year and I'm really excited - mostly cause I'm an anime fan. Anyway, keep it up. It's always great to hear different perspectives.
It's probably his eye color, specifically for him in titanic because he didn't workout or anything to change his appearance. He just rolled with what he had
He always had a baby face and wasnt every womans type in the first place...and men should focus on getting this ONE woman they wanna spend their life with and dont care about the rest. People should be more disciplined and spiritual and not so primitive because it causes nothing but trouble and pain.
It’s also probably partially has to do with the environment safety where in the western hemisphere it’s getting more dangerous after dark in public contrast with eastern Asian society are actually 100 times safer so you don’t necessarily need to be tough and masculine to feel secure cuz crime rates are very low in China Japan and Korea
Sir, teenage girls have flocked to that soft look since the Beatles, Bowie, and Prince. The way I've seen it explained is that it's a soft, gentle version of male sexuality because full blown men frightens them.
I am a white chick from Europe. My observation is that of course east asian men can be masculine and attractive (to other races too) and they nail the "elegant masculinity" very well, but it is more rare, cause lets be very real...east asians are much smaller on average than western people...and we all know most women want men, who are at least a little taller than them. Then there is the issue that some east asian men look way to young until they are like 35 or something. They can look like teens up until this age and asian faces can be very round and flat which gives this "cute baby" look. Some women are into this maybe I dont know. It doesnt help that east asia promotes their most young/feminine looking guys to the west. I mean, BTS looks like a bunch of girls to me. They have character-less porcelain faces, pouty lips...if you slap a wig on K-Pop stars they all look like girls to me. The last thing I could bring up is maybe the lack of facial hair? Not many asian men with beards out there and some women really love beards. Its not that much of a preference for me but yeah a beard can ooze masculinity.
Attraction super is biased. There are girls in Europe who like the style of East Asian guys and there girls in Europe who doesn’t like. It’s all based on who you are more attracted to. I know many white females who are into that BTS look and because of that want some Asian dude who look like that. It’s pretty subjective 🤷♂️
@@allio3459 Dude I was talking about WOMEN not naive little girls/teens or early 20s. How old are these women who like BTS that you know? Cause in my experience, its very young, dim, naive chicks and when I see "...based on that they want a guy that looks like this..." I knew we are not talking about smart, mature women who are looking for someone to marry.
@@calistafalcontail Masculinity in east asia is more about mentality, which is somehow always overlooked by westerners. Masculinity is not about how much beard and muscle you have, that is shallow level, instead a mature enough mind to learn stuff from all aspects and keep humble to appreciate the beauty of different things. You might see bts look like girls, but do you know the behind scence they have trained? The discipline to chase for the career success, the focused mind to train their body (do you know they're ripped as well?) Are these mentalities counted as masculine then? I'm literally looking like a bts but I go to the gym and stand 5'11, I've never trust the myth saying us being effeminate male - I just focus on my goals even I'm having a so-called feminine image, which is also how I stood out from others as what my english girlfrield told me. She said: The way you're projecting masculinity is different from other white guys. You don't try hard to impress me how masculine you're by beard and muscle, but a mature mind to handle things and struggles. *And to be honest, east asian, depends on which part, they could be quite tall ranging from 6 to 6'2 and still not counted as outliers.
Smaller in terms of what? East Asian men have almost the same average height as American men. In China in some places the average height is 5’8 + but the average height of Chinese are 5’7.5”....... Also your comment about younger woman liking them because they look “younger” is super weird. It’s called trying not to age as fast which a lot of people do. There are also a lot of older fans. And who are you to call someone Naive for being attracted to them? The word bidnashi/Bishounen was also inspired by China meaning pretty boy/man. It was already rooted in culture a very long time ago especially with the Japanese. Excuse us for looking younger than we are, that’s just how a lot of our genetics are.
Some women have different taste than yours, it's normal. I'm Greek white and I prefer Asians, smaller and elegant men physically. Not because I'm immature lol tastes differ..When I was younger the most popular guy was johnny Depp, he was a small handsome dude. It's more common opinion than you realize
I’m from southeast china chengdu, beauty standard here is different, partially inspired by Higher Brothers prolly. The feminine standard is more popular in 江浙沪 where the high class scholar type 才子culture were from 😊
In cultures like turkish, arab, kazakh, uzbek etc., men take a lot of pride being men, and take that seriously. They seem to act a certain way and conduct themselves a certain way, and there are things they won't say or do. This is based on my observations at a very multicultural university in the UK. Whereas Asian guys seem to put lower attention on themselves or their appearance and are more easily accessible and available (for the lack of a better word). They don't work out as much. Whereas my Turkish or Central Asian friends are more into working out or they have hobbies like shooting or some sports like ice hockey or MMA. Aggression and being upfront is something else I have noticed as being different between East/ South East Asians vs Middle Eastern/Central asians.
So many of the Asian movie stars look like women with short hair. Their features are so soft and their skin so fine and that red lipstick they wear is really effeminate! If I Were Gay and I was interested in dating a man that looks like a woman, I would date an Asian guy. As a woman I want a man who looks like a man and not anything like a woman
Go 90's, 80's and 70,s ...Chinese men use to be more masculine. Think about all the movie stars. Only a few could be called effeminate. Most were action movie stars Chow Yun Fat etc..
Yeah but that’s just in the movies, Chinese men also looked like how K-pop and Japanese looked during that time period too. It was because it was seen as cool to look like Jackie Chan that’s why you would see a lot of them being casted with those characteristics.... but in fact there were A LOT of Chinese men that resembled feminine traits in those years too. Don’t believe me? I will inbox you some pictures of them from the 70s,80s, and 90s.
@CDwow123 Yes, there always was effeminate men. However, they were not overrepresented in media as an " ideal " type of men as they are today. Just look at most casting dramas. Do you know a new popular male actor that's not " good-looking ". Older drama and movies had fat men or not, so good-looking men in leading roles.
@@troublesome1101 in 1990s Jimmy Lin and Alec Su were quite popular and mostly starred romcom that targeting female audience, and they were quite effeminate by 1990s standard. You just watched HK martial arts movies, for teenage romance movies the lead male had been effeminate since 1990s. This trend is actually started by Japanese company, Johnny & Associates in 1970-1980s, later copied by Taiwanese in 1980s-1990s and by Korean entertainment industry in early 2000s. Before World cup 2002, no one in Indonesia know about South Korean entertainment, we used to watch Hongkong, Taiwan, and Japanese media more for East Asian media.
I wanna comment again regarding America's entertainment focus on the Blue-Collar content and audience whilst the ones producing it are White-Collar. What a perfect summation of how they're able to appeal to most middle to low middle class people with their entertainment.
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
@@pikachuthunderbolt3919I went to a half white half black school there were black guys that looked 35 and were jacked they made white guys seem feminine
China does not promote feminine men because of PTSD caused by the Mongolian invasion. On the contrary, this cultural atmosphere originated in the Song Dynasty and before the Yuan Dynasty. I could write a whole thesis on how this happened lol. In short, the proportion of civil（文）and military（武） in Chinese culture itself is not as extreme as you say, and the most respected great men in Chinese culture are basically related to the military. Maybe it is true that the buff guys are not particularly favored in our culture, but it is only because of different interpretations of masculinity, not because our culture favors feminine men.
The “softer” western men aren’t idealized for their masculinity though. They’re idealized because they’re seen as an alternative to that tough chiseled western masculine ideal. They’re seen as having positive qualities stereotypically associated with femininity like empathy and emotional intelligence. Obviously those aren’t the sole province of femininity but those gender roles and stereotypes put them in those boxes.
I was just thinking about this.. why does Asian men look so feminine...? I grew up in the times in kung fu movies the Asian men were manly and dangerous and brave and heros or villains. Now, they are kpop and feminine ... so yea, if you can help us understand why, that would be helpful!
Long story short. Mass media is pushing feminine type men because the government benefits from de masculine men. How? The masculine men pose the biggest threat to governmenta control over the masses. How you gonna fight back and protest if you gotta do goat yoga on monday?
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
Let me give my two cents worth... 1. Asians already look younger than their actual ages but these idols are literally young. They have to establish their groups before the members have to leave for compulsory military service. 2. Asian women probably have the slightest (petite) frame in body type: the salt and pepper shaker set has to match. ; ) 3. Asian culture is very conservative. There is somewhat of a censorship going on but not necessarily by the government. You can get away with more risque´ behavior if it appears cute and harmless. Real in-your-face sexuality from mature body types is too scary for them. 4. Have you heard of the performer Rain? I rest my case.
East Asian men were 10x more masculine a few generation ago..Asians invented 90% of the world's martial arts, Samurai warriors, bushido, honorable military services, generations of wars, polygamous marriage.. all of those are lost today in Asia
@@lessismore3257 It's very simple. Think about why many men fetishize Asian women, because how small and cute they look. It's the exact opposite with Asian men the feminine look and build is a negative when it comes to what makes a man attractive to women.
China's ban on feminine men was to ensure their entertainment industry doesn't promote feminine male role models the way the Koreans do. If you compare the the whole Asian entertainment industry (movies and musics) between any other Asian countries it's very noticeable that none feminize their men the way the Koreans do. It's also no surprise why South Korea is not only known for 'plastic pretty' women but their men are also having plastic surgery to look like their idols. I haven't seen this trend with any other Asian nations. Not even close.
I dont get this asian(korean) mindset about "idols"...who the f has such a weak mind that they wanna be and look like someone else? Dont they know these idols are all fake as f and management slaves?
@@deekay13 How does the need for Kpop to expand internationally relate to feminizing their boys/men? There are many countries that would like to market their entertainment industry internationally but they don't feminize their males. There is no such trend anywhere else.
@@deekay13 I have been to Korea multiple times and while the average dude on the street there doesn't dress up like kpop idol , neither do the average dude in the U.S dressing up like Backstreet boys or Inysnc or the average Taiwanese boys/Japanese boys dressing up like their idols. Taiwan doesn't have a big enough domestic market for their boys band and they have mandatory military service but you don't see the same pop culture where almost every male band group is feminized and need to have certain looks. Your points are irrelevant. If you look at kpop boy bands, and their male movie stars almost all of them are promoted to have the same look .... the feminine look and the whole nations seems to take pride in feminizing Korean men. As a result, the average Korean men looks more "pretty" than manly due to the role models they were programmed with growing up. You won't find this with other Asian countries.
@@wf1764 What is really interesting is that the image of Korean men in Japan is tall and masculine But in other countries,,except Japan, it is quite the opposite..🤔And not only Korea, but also other Asian countries such as Thailand, Japan, and the Philippines are feminizing men, and Thailand is famous for its transgender/bl drama, and the bl culture comes from Japan And in the Philippines, there is a Ppop boy group called "SB19"(Ah,,,,+Thailand,Japan,Malaysia,Myanmar, Kazakhstan,Vietnam also have female boy groups)
@@CoolNumber1wtf, is this one punch man saitama?? You actually think that men are one punching their wife to death more often because their western and more masculine?? What kind of narrative is that 😂. It’s funny sorry, it’s the way you described it, I actually have nothing against what you’ve said other than I think is a little bit hyperbolic.
There is a saying in Chinese, "qiong wen fu wu", meaning the poor read while the rich can practice the martial stuff. You see, the only way the poor can achieve upward class mobility is through "keju". Otherwise, they have to work the land. To be a proper "wu" gentleman in the Chinese Empire, one needed money, time, and connections. Most of the generals in Chinese history came from wealthy upper class military family.
Asian people don't put so much emphasis on outward appearances. It's also a myth that women are naturally attracted to muscular men. Modern day male models are not so muscular in appearance even in western countries. Generally a well proportioned slim body is more preferred than big muscular body in the fashion industry.
Western beauty standards vs. Eastern beauty standards are obviously different, but yes, East Asian men don't typically have the same physical attributes that are archetypically "masculine." Most aren't tall, broad shouldered, buff, have scruffy beards, etc. And maybe Chinese women don't always value those characteristics since Chinese culture has a greater emphasis on materialism and resource acquisition over setting athletic records or looking like a bodybuilder.
More likely US-Hollywood vs Japanized East Asian beauty standard. Current K-pop looks has root in J-Pop bishonen. British, French, German male actors are skinnier and not as muscular as their Hollywood counterpart.
3:32 Hit the nail right in the head where a huge majority of Asian men go for a more narrow spectrum when it comes to masculinity, sadly. With the largest population they caused this stereotype on themselves.
caused a sterotype? what stereotype caused by china? all stereotypes of asians in modern days are created by japs and koreans with all these anime nerds and kpop boys.
also it doesnt matter how wide the spectrum really is in china, the west wiil only reinforce those images of chinese men that meet western propaganda needs. you cant possibly believe 700millons Chinese men actually live by same values, social codes and very narrow spectrum of images.
@@hovera7946 Japanese have obvious subgroups and names for them and their anime's aren't based on Asians as they want to appeal for the Western market. But Koreans on the other hand have really influenced and seared the stereotype of Asian men.
@@hovera7946 I'm not isolating china, I'm referring to Asians in general especially the ones who grew up in the West where majority enforce that stereotype.
i’ll be honest. this topic is a no brainer esp for those who’ve studied propaganda and pop culture. most people get lost in being reactionary they forget why they’re even talking about these topics like masculinity in a place most people around them on a daily basis wouldn’t even be able to phantom a reason to go cross a border. a lot of people have talked about the ban of feminity but only perceive this as what roles gender plays. but they aren’t considering the fact that being human is only that. humans are flawed and when these topics come up it’s not even a crime but to micro manage populations and narrative. if we all bleed the same color and tend to have the same human problems esp with relationships then all this hype over law is just meant to keep the divide at bay rather than filling in the gaps. too many people in these comments are in their feels. not enough critical thinkers. too many people just reacting with commentary and not enough self awareness. often as humans we take from our surrounds esp taking from parents. at natures core masculinity and feminity are not bound in looks, hobby or careers. pop culture history indicates these are just common results we add association to as a society. but as natures core we have mothers and fathers. nature doesn’t stray from men being logical and women being emotional at their core. there are always nuances but biology in birthing people is pretty clear for what’s being assigned as masculine vs feminine. the only way to win these games is to not play. but most people are addicted to pain shopping for validation and get lost in their cycles pining at being accepted and average to a point while benefiting as much as possible with the least amount of work. i think the clip and discussion was interesting but i think there’s a lot of things this video lacks
I think labeling masculinity and femininity on looks alone is a big problem with many societies. Tall, thick, lumbering deep voiced assertive men can feel forced into being a dreamed up masculinity causing mental issues and are seen as someone to "beat" in order to gain masculine status. Just as petite, short, slender fingered, soft voiced, docile women are idolized as ideal feminine to be seen as most desired partners. Girls are raised malnourished to stunt growth, keep smaller frames, and be petite which causes health and mental issues later in life. Just as boys are forced into sports and whatnot to get bigger which can cause mental issues for not living up to this dreamed up "ideal". Asian men are extremely masculine, because they are men. Men = masculine no matter the stature, build, and such. Western men seem larger but are not so big compared to western women. Beautiful men are just as masculine as rugged men. Masculinity and femininity are a dreamed up social concept that can cause people to self harm for not fitting. I get so sick of the norm forcing ideals on the young. My son was beat up in freakin Pre-K and kinder for being feminine looking with a tall slender frame and beautiful face. 3rd day of kinder other kids were calling him a "She-boy". He was crying on the walk home asking if he was really a girl. 💔 Society is twisted for labeling masculinity/femininity at all. Everyone is lovely in their own way.
@@leigh7507 I can't see strength and height as "manliness". I am about 6ft, varsity track/field and varsity basketball, ex EMT, ex army combat medic attached to the infantry, ex model, ex circus performer, ex roadie building stages, ex roofer/demolition/remodeling that can lift a man up onto my shoulders and walk off. As a woman I do not see that as manly, I see it as doing jobs that I was built able to do. Sis is an ex pro wrestler and an accountant. My past bf were 5ft to 6'4. I cannot physically become smaller without lopping off limbs, so why would a man born smaller in skeletal frame be less of a man when he is genetically designed to be so? Competence is desired in every mate and to say it's only in men is ridiculous. Manliness is a silly social construct. Voices come in all pitches (mine was 3 octives in college choir) and it is a personal preference. But since mine and my family's norm don't match society's I am unable to see strength, height, voice pitch, or competence as masculine as those are in all genders/everyone in my family. It's not idealistic, it's my reality for over 46 yrs.
@@umibear7951 but is it even a social construct? Theres studies that show strength, body hair, and a deep voice are linked with high male testosterone, I understand that both biological standards and cultural standards of masculinity can be harmful to those who deviate from the idealised form - but denying it wouldnt help
You are correct. Asian guys let themselves be feminine. *1st Generation Asian American male Super Chad* here. I am calling Fung Bros out to invite me to one of their podcast one day so I can talk about my journey of dating outside my race with ease. I gotta get permission from my wife first because she was pissed off at me for telling other TH-camrs how many White ex-gfs I got in my entire life as compared to all the other Hispanic girls, Black girls, and lastly other Asian girls that I dated. lol To Fung Bros; yes you can still have the old Asian poetic view of masculinity as well and get girls. It's really how you market yourself out in the world to girls since no girls want a Robot Chad who doesn't have any emotional understanding to the *Way of Life.**It takes more than just a sexy manly face and body to get girls.*
South east asia like who cuz fron what I see in gulf arab countries indonesian malaysian filipino women travel to those gulf countries for work abd their men remain in asia what kinda warrior culture is that 🤔
@@TDK2K you better check your definition of ‘civilized’ first otherwise I might think the civilized America is even more barbaric than a uncivilized country.
Your definition of masculinity seems to be limited to brutal behaviour and strength...but thats not what masculinity is. There is elegant masculinity of course and its a certain aura too. The ability to protect and provide is still very desired and most women dont want men who also look like women. Thats just a fact. Brain matters and soft skills matter of course too. You just imagined one extreme here. The other extreme is, when men, like these korean idol dudes, look literally like little teenage girls. I swear if you just show me their faces without hairstyle and body...I cant say if its a woman or man. They look weakly, vain and have no character in their face. They also really look all alike to me and I know not all east asian look alike but these young celebrities do.
@@calistafalcontail the definition of masculinity inferred in this video is more on the appearance side which I think is overrated. Like you said, I think masculinity should be more on the inside. Another aspect of the issue is that the positive characters associated with masculinity don’t need to be confined in any gender.
@@ziiiim Asian musculinity is about put off the clothes slowly to seduce whilst western msculinity is about get naked straight away and start banging; they be like: look how masculine i am, how big i am and how strong i am!!!! This is how it differs. LOL!
There's an Asian guy who attends the gym where I work out that looks almost exactly like Conan the Barbarian from the 90s cartoon "Conan the adventurer." He is buff and swole like that, and also tall. From behind he could pass for Conan, but of course his face is very Asian (I think probably Chinese but I'm not sure). His girlfriend is white.
Awesome analysis fung bros! I think it is a good thing that China is shifting more towards the traditional masculine ideal of men as I believe these kind of men lead a nation to divinity. I believe that Men have the Divine Imperative to become as capable, powerful, and competent as possible in this life.
Nope American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight U need to know that even in ancient times Men in army were the most masculine and hard while the server in palaces were more like gentleman men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music ) So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
@@calistafalcontail Ikr, but fifa Korean are beasts. I mean there is difference between handsome pretty guy than girly guy. Leonardo DiCaprio is a pretty guy
Manliness is different from attractiveness or hotness. I mean, if i remember correctly there was that asian guy who was said to be the hottest guy in the world, from a magazine. I don't know much about that. But if that's the case, then masculinity be damned right? If you're touted as the hottest in the world right now? 🤣 But, in some ways yes, she's right. Most asian men have feminine features. It's because of the culture built around what asians think of "hot". Not manly, but hot or attractive. In Asia which local celebs are deemed as hot? Kpopers, jpopers, those who look like girls. I mean, white as girls, no tan, nothing. Asian marketing has programmed asians to be drawn to those guys who look feminine. Look at ads. Even men are said to be handsome if they are as white as porcelain, yet in the US, Europe, western countries, particularly whites try so hard to get a tan, or at least not too white that they look like chinawares. It's prone in asian countries that even men are opting to learn how to put on makeup or at the least put on powder or foundation. Also most Asians don't try to build their body. We are already short, yet either we're too thin or too fat. Even celebs don't try to buff up. We also don't have chest hair, though some have really thick leg hair 😂. But it's not to say that all are like that, look at the guy playing shang chi. Then there's the guy from the asian rom com flick a few years ago about the wedding thing. They have manly features. Some asian men don't have those manly faces, either they're round or too thin. And then there's these kpop people, some even have plastic surgery to look more feminine. But who cares 😂. If you have a girlfriend or wife or if you get girls, who cares 😂.
Let's also add that having a cool, interesting personality, which is an expression of non-conformism or at least the perception of it (why David Bowie, Prince and many rock stars are sought after and despite their so called "feminine look") or being good at flirting with women (having unapologetic sexuality, wittiness, and extroversion to put yourself out there) is not exactly a thing in Asian culture, at least not until globalization. Having a collectivistic attitude and constant self-consciousness of how others think of you and "your kind" and the common nerdy retort of "we have the money and/or are smart, why don't we get all the attractive women" just kinda proves the point.
I am agree w you david.....Humans in the male genre who look feminine cannot be judged by all Asian men like that, and when seen in real life the comparison is reversed. and all unique every part of asia.
Asian men literally own the meritocracy ladder, and you expect us to do more? Do you just want to deny the fact that western media does portray asian men in a certain way, and that the only good representation asian men get is from strong asian nations with power such as China, Japan, and S.Korea, because their economic power house. We make the most money in America, we are only 5% of the nation's population, and you still expect us to do more??? We can't win in trying to be athletes because we get stigmatized and stereotyped out of being on any sports team. We are literally some of the most stoic people on the planet, and you somehow want us to be more stoic?? This is literal bs narrative coming from an incompetent, ignorant person who doesn't want to understand asian men struggle in the west. We're literally are the last people to blame anyone or anything, we barely speak, we were programmed to conform. When did asian men blame society, I don't see that anywhere, we usually keep our head down and do our fucking work, provide for our family (look at our marriage rate and divorce rate), and you still want MORE from us. Damn some people just don't want to understand the struggle. There's so much data, and research done on making asian men effeminate in the west, alot of it rooted in racism and stereotype.
Asian's are the most feminine looking race, hence if you're a woman who's Asian it's a positive but if you're a male it's a negative. Of course this only becomes a huge factor when you live in a country like America where there's a lot of diversity on the dating market.
to be fair what other culture promotes affeminate Men? India does not Pakistan does not Nigeria does not South Africa does not Jamaica does not Australia does not Russia does not Italy does not Dubai does not Its actually not a Western thing at all virtually no culture outside of China, Korea and a lesser extent Japan have this prominent affeminate male promotion. Hell before WW2 neither did China, Japan and Korea to be honest.
I think u missed a bit of aini's point. What western view as feminine, to asian is not feminine. And that masculinity is not only made up of muscle. One can have have soft pretty boy look but regard as masculine due to his knowledge, intelligence or capability to contribute to society. Even with david bowie or timothy chamaleet, they are not main stream because me coming from Asian country, I often see in western movie that men masculinity always define as muscular, dominant, beard etc.
Interesting discussion, gents. Have y’all heard about Lu XiaoJun? He’s widely considered one of the best (and most aesthetic) Olympic weightlifters in the world.
To me when someone says feminine, their body structure is just more like a woman's. I dint think it matters but yeah. It's just an appearance thing because Chinese xan be very aggressive while looking feminine. It's just their genetics. Western countries are more heterogeneous, while Asian countries, specifically China, is homogeneous.
In 'older' Western/ European culture people said "you needed to be a master of both the pen and the sword."(in Spain) and “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.” in Greece.
We can see that in practice often
One contributing factor, at least pertaining to the influence of the west, is the fact that there was a significant pushback to showing masculine Asian male sex symbols in western media. The best example of this is how Sessue Hayakawa was treated. For a really long time, Asian males were depicted as sly villains or amiable sidekicks. This still resonates to an extent even today.
Yes!!! Because they felt threatened and were jealous 🤣😆 But they are not in control so much now, because... Internet.
Oh i've seen photos of him. Honestly? No wonder women back then were a bit crazy for him. Handsome, smart, brooding look... 😳🤭
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
It's what Hollywood, western media propaganda does. When they saw immigrants from asia settling in more and also having the chance to marry "their" white women, they were intimidated like they are by most immigrants and their culture. Just look at how Asian men are either only cast as an aging monk or kungfu master, and in desexualizing asian men they in turn hypersexualize the asian women. Just watch East Asian movies and you will such good-looking men in their media, and many of them are masculine too , I'm not talking about Korean pop boy idols, who go for those asthetics that are considered more feminine. There are buff guys so called "masculine" men all over east asia (masculine is not just physical thing tho) but they are not sought after to become a movie star. Imagine if timothee chalamet or Finn wolfhard were considered the ideal standard in western culture, we would hardly see Jason Momoa or Rock in the pictures then... That's what's happening in east asian pictures, that overly muscular buff guys are not considered as attractive as the more elegant refined looking men in women's/audience eyes..
😊
I saw the same video. Thanks for another perspective on the topic. Both this and aini's video are very eye-opening!
As a non-Asian lay Sinologist, you couldn't get more masculine than Guan Yu (关羽). Killed a bully from his village, joined the army and was so feared in awe for his military prowess he ended up being made a god. And his long flowing beard and his high threshold for pain (playing chess while an arrow is being retrieved from his injured arm), known for his ardent loyalty to the brotherhood, the guy was scarily Masculine and proper Alpha, a symbol of Masculinity.
Wasn't Lu Bu (吕布) both proper Wen (文) in a sense and Wu (武)？If I remember correctly, he was dashingly handsome and even the three heroic brothers of the three kingdoms could not defeat him on horseback! China can be ultra masculine or 武 but from my observation, traditionally have a tendency to hide or not be showy about such traits. Must be why old China had the saying 外圆内方 (Google is your friend 🙂)
@Gold Tau or about 40 to 50 years later...
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing
@@pikachuthunderbolt3919 bro if you have high tes you arent gona be fat like americans
Lu Bu , a mixture of both Wen and Wu?
HELL NO, Lu Bu was a great fighter, perhaps the strongest warrior in the three kingdoms. He was the epitome of "Wu", but he was the classic brute who was greedy and disloyal, and he fell because of his treacherous past.
Cao Cao was unwilling to take the risk of having Lu BU as a subordinate, since he could betray and rebel against him, just as he did against his past stepfathers.
@@jojocholo4664 that's not how science works.
You guys should add in non-Chinese guests to offer insights on other Asian countries. Personally, as a Filipino I’d love to see more southeast Asian topics. Still love all the content you guys post!
Yes but ultimately we Filipinos have to build our own platforms and spaces if we're ever going to stand on our own beyond the Chinese cultural shadow.
@@ViperXMambo
Filipinos are overshadowed by the Chinese in The U.S because most Americans mistake Filipinos for being Chinese!
@@josephimperatrice5552 Again as someone who is 100% Pinoy I can say with full confidence that neither I or anyone in my big ass family have ever been mistaken for Chinese (maybe my family and I are outliers like we are with our 6'0+ height, for instance I am 6'2 as mentioned in the other comment thread we spoke on). If anything people mistake the men in my family as well as myself for our Austronesian brothers, the Samoans or Hawaiians. Us Pinoys have very different genetics, linguistics, phenotypes, body types, and not to mention skin color than the Chinese. If people were to mistake a Filipino for Chinese it is more than likely due to racism and ignorance as well as maybe a dash of uneducation.
@@ViperXMambo PREACH ON IT. We will get there. Great comment and 100% the truth. Stay happy and blessed Pare.
@@Boondoxx I 100% agree, my twin brother and uncle are constantly mistaken for Samoan because of their larger builds, non round faces, and darker skins.
Masculinity in the West isn't "thought" about. That's the whole point. The whole "I'm going to be logical and sound like a nerd breaking down social norms" is exactly what "Western masculinity" DOES NOT do and/or isn't preoccupied with. Masculinity is about the thought process (or lack thereof) as much as it is the physical projection.
Exactly. Imagine James Bond sitting down with women and trying to break down sexuality and social norm without realizing how "uncool" it is lol, instead of just embodying his sexuality through flirtatious expression with women. Attraction is not negotiable.
@@neoleegdg Yeah, there's a diff between observing, experiencing, testing and fine-tuning approaches that work for you through real-world 'practice' (aka dating a shit ton of diff types of people, etc) and THEN thinking back in retrospect about how you (from experience) and others in your 'group' (Asian friends) may've been perceived/differ etc (keeping in-mind the multitude of variables - such as geographical, physique, personality type, lifestyle, etc etc etc).
But problem is...most of the people that do talk about this type of stuff have little to zero actual real-world experience to draw from (small sample size w/ limited variety within). And then they extrapolate based on that 2 people they've dated. Or worse...they've come from a bubble type environment (aka predominately Asian only communities/friends). -_-
I don't mind the nerdy shit (quantifying the 'masculine' attitude is one thing, but actually experiencing it, practicing it, is completely different). Same goes for stating what groups of people may think of 'your kind'. You can quantify the attitude of a non-Asian on-paper, but it's much diff when you actually experience dating hundreds/thousands of women of various kinds of various background/intensions/personalities.
At the end of the day...the art of it is something these turds can't account for.
@@ajtam05 Yeah, and having a cool, interesting personality, which is an expression of non-conformism or the perception of it (why David Bowie, Prince and many rock stars are sought after and despite their so called "feminine look"); oozing unapologetic sexuality and fun; and knowing how to flirt with women from all walks of life cannot be any more opposite from having a collectivistic attitude and constant self-consciousness of how others think of you and "your kind" and the many nerdy retort that "we have the money and/or are smart, why can't we get all the women", which kinda just proves the point.
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
70's and 80's rockstars were putting makeup way before the whole wave. You can't say no to David Bowie.
Again he was from England and was bisexual... again you are using feminine guys as a norm lol and you are below that norm so you are justifying. So funny
Mick jagger keith richards marc bolan lou reed were doing it david bowie caught onto it
The hand picking of examples is definitely a huge factor when people make these wide sweeping statements. It reinforces stereotypes, which I think people are too comfortable accepting
It's pretty simple. The more free testosterone coursing through your veins, the more masculine your physical traits will be. East Asia has the lowest levels of free testosterone so naturally, biologically, the physical traits of East Asian men are on average less masculine.
You meant artificial testosterone?
I am from north africa and I was into kpop when I showed my favorite kpop group, dbsk to my frineds they all said that they look like girls, I thought that they just haters but when I grow up and grow out that phase I realized that they did have point.. While 2pm and dbsk were considered as manly kpop idols back then, in west they would be veiwed as feminine men
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
Godfrey Gao, HuBing, Paing takhon, Shohei ohtani
@@pikachuthunderbolt3919what so bruce lee didn't set a standard as a ripped asian guy
@@LeahDyson-kq4bd he's just copy pasting random stuff to replies. No one considers the 5'4 latino man as aggressive. The only latinos known for being decently masculine are the spanish latinos lmao. Truth though in the american one.
I went over to watch her video first, thanks for respecting her knowledge and delivery, there’s a reason why there’s over 100k+ views on the vid. Then I came back to watch yours. Both are insightful.
In 2022 and beyond, there is no right or wrong way to be a man, woman or what gender you identify with. The debates on “what is masculinity” baffles me. Be yourself, find fulfillment because life is short.
Especially in the west, where David did mention… diversity exists. You can choose your own character. Aren’t you glad you don’t live in China? I live in the western world too, and while there are issues and it’s not perfect - there isn’t one ideal of masculinity/femininity… both are social constructs and only affect you if you choose to let them dictate how you live your life.
you never been to China...
@@hovera7946 fr she havent, just another clueless lib.
Aini's breakdown was spot on. The full video of her breakdown was even better
K-Pop made Chinese men even more feminine
China began to emphasize literature over martial arts in the Song Dynasty and stopped promoting masculinity. Because the importance of the imperial examinations was elevated, literary talent often became the most sought-after male temperament. To this day, students who are at the top of their academic game in school tend to receive attention like superstars, while those who excel in sports do not, and these school cultures are almost the exact opposite of the United States.
In ancient China, a muscular and rugged appearance was often described as negative, and it was the refined and handsome male appearance that was more popular with women. So the positive words used to describe male appearance in Chinese were often“儒雅”“一表人才”“温润” and in ancient times, even the words used to describe women were used to compliment a beautiful man.
I'm in the ghetto and I can confirm that being buff with a beard doesn't make you a blue collar.
I ain't Chinese; but a 1st Generation South East Asian American male with a hardcore military background. I never had any issues dating girls of all races. I can kick ass, trained in mixed martial arts, trained in firearms combat tactical maneuvers, about 5'5 height, and lastly I ain't feminine. I am a tough knuckleheaded U.S. Jarhead who dated mostly white girls my entire life. Every time Asian girls say Asian man are too girly; I laugh my butt off and tell them they can ask all my White ex-gfs on how they liked me as a Asian man. Black, Hispanic, White, and Asian girls loved me every time I mingled with them; not because I was a hotshot Chad. It was because I was a strong leader with a clear ambition and a man with a prestigious legacy that I want to leave behind. I would love Fung Bros to invite me for a podcast or a video shoot of me getting girls phone numbers off the street to show that Asian guys femininity is all *Bullcrap.**However I don't think my wife would want me to go back to being a *Super Chad* trying to get girls phone numbers. LOL!
Dude, you just come across as one of those college frat boys bragging about your body count, all while being married. Any half decent ABC can date outside the race. I'm Asian and grew in Europe, we are literally surrounded by more whites than our own race.
Dating lot of women not proof that you not feminine, and asian women in west majority of them dont like asian men.
Bro c’mon, from one short guy to another, if you say about 5’5, you know you’re 5’4. Let’s be proud of it or don’t draw attention to it, but let’s not lie about it.
@@henrytep8884 5'5 was my legal height since I am only less than 1 centimeters from hitting it. I ain't 5'4 flat as well since I measured my height plenty of times already. My proximity height correlates to 5'5 since our State ID does not measure per decimals.
not to cut you down but the things you listed don’t really show case that much masculinity. it shows you’re about average as men in your class weight as your job dictates you to be. you didn’t say why you joined the military either which doesn’t necessarily make you masculine either for just being in service. i say this because not everyone that’s apart of the military is a leader. when most people consider masculine they think of opposite of the role of women. most people flock towards goals they can obsess about. i’m south east asian too but i actually studied propaganda and the only way to win is to not play thee games of who is and isn’t based on where they’re from or what they look like or what they do. you’re dealing with stereotypes and with the power of the internet you’ve played the short game by trying to fit where you belong based on the parameters of the propaganda. people don’t realize you can’t win against propaganda with more propaganda because people put their mindsets into bubbles and echo chambers just like how group think happens.
While I'm not a fan of nationalism, I must point out that there has in fact been a systemic push for Asians to be emasculated. We can talk about colonialism. We can talk about orientalism. We can talk about military occupation. We can talk about American race relations and representation. We can talk about geopolitics. And we can even talk about the far-right forums and imageboards.
Do you really think what she's saying is CCP programming
no she doesnt
@@bishop51807 I would say that she had a mild critique of the CCP's attempt to promote masculinity. My rebuttal is that there is, to whatever extent, a legitimate need to pushback against the aforementioned systemic factors.
@@mapuangames5847 She had commentary on the Chinese government. It was quite clear.
Hey I also saw her video on China's soft power. But I am not quite confident in my assessments, do you think she is in the anti-china camp or the pro-china camp? She seem to be objective so far, what are your thoughts??
Broad shoulders and narrow waist (29 inches) works on women everywhere - I'm sure. Even short guys like me get eyes with that look. I know because, I used to get the stares, touches, comments, and smiles from all types of women - Asians too - when I had it. Two Korean guys told me that I would be considered too big in Korean culture, but I can tell you, the Korean girls (Korea born) here, had no problem noticing and appreciating my physique. That was about 10 years ago now. I'm sure it's the same. Asian babes, notice the broad shoulders and narrow waist. But it's not necessarily an easy look to keep. It's greatly masculine to them.
how did you get broad shoulders? just lateral raises?
@@BladeAurora This one is not an easy exercise, but the best one for me for that broad shoulder look was wide grip pull-ups behind the neck. (If you can do 8 good ones, your shoulder will already look broad.) I was 20 lbs lighter and put a 10lbs weight in my weight belt. You don't have to do that. (If you're too heavy, use a stick across the backs of two chairs and do pull up from your butt off the ground. Be careful.)
That said, all shoulder exercises help though. ...Lat raises like you mentioned- go wide if you can, dumbbell raises - to the side especially, upright rows - point elbows out to the side, shrugs, wide pull-ups to the front also, etc... Good Luck
V-shaped torso is partly to mostly genetic tbh, but you can definitely augment your shoulder width through lifting
@@psychedamike Yes. That's true. But losing weight counts too. That's the small waist part. They concept works together. I weight some 20 to 25 lbs less by way of my diet. I had a 29 inch waist. That's really small. A lot of guys can get a 32 inch waist. That's small too. But your right about building the shoulders. That said, having big shoulders and a big waist is not what I'm talking about. That's just big.
I agree and disagree. Asian men has small frame in most case as comparison to any other ethnicity. I used to date 2 Korean guys , one who was not muscled at all but was big in body build and was 185 in height and other one who was 165 and had smaller frame than me even tho my height is 158. On pictures it was more than visible and I am considered a small woman in the west.He used to date another white girl before and when I saw one of the pictures he was shorter than her and looked like a baby . She never had se3 with him during 4 years of knowing each other. I do believe it's because women are rarely se3ually aroused by men who are smaller than them. Tbh I wasn't attracted to him physically as much as I was to my first bf who got me aroused just by looking at him . I felt protected and feminine but with second one se3 was still good and pleasurable just not as good as the first one who felt more masculine to me. It doesn't matter for me in the end but it's undeniable that it does make a difference for most people.
Re: Korea and Japan "having more lanes" than the PRC
I definitely agree that they have more lanes, but I think the simultaneously strict and remarkably ambiguous censorship guidelines in the PRC result in people and companies looking at whatever "works" and does not get censored, and then emulating it because it's a safe bet.
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
@@pikachuthunderbolt3919 You started your reply with "Nope", but I don't really see where your comment disagrees with mine. As for the rest of your comment, I'm not sure that's supported by historical record. Also, contemporary music today is _very_ diverse, and an artist does not necessarily even need to use spoken words at all in order to be successful, let alone "female abusing words".
I think most people forget when they were growing up watching old Japanese, Chinese and Asian movies. The men back in those days were very very masculine looking, you could daydream and just daydream more more about them, but in today's society we don't have those type of guys these days. what we have is BTS or effeminate looking Asian men as representative of Asia. Correct me if I'm wrong.
BTS makes money, girls and women largely like em even if you don't. Money talks and if girls say and date dudes like that, more guys are going to be inclined to look like that. BTS isn't that feminine at all tbh despite the aesthetic. Despite being glammed up, they are fit af.
@@Drownedinblood women are sold the dream by mass media. BTS feminine boy band types are pushed. But when a woman dates that type of guy they will find them annoying incompetent feminine unable to protect them in certain situations. Women will lose respect for that fem guy and will resort to bullying him and bad behaviour. Eventually when she realizes hes a pushover she will learn her lesson and move on. Womans attraction triggers are bilogical you cant change those things
@@funkthat A guy who takes care of themselves doesn't automatically mean pushover. You live in a weird universe where that's true, if anything it's seen as a sign that he's found funds to fund those spa treatments or whatever. Are you going to kill him and take his woman?
@@Drownedinblood Nahh BTS are very effeminate. That is what the Koreans call flower boys.
@@Drownedinbloodthey are plastic af, and so are the women in kpop. The standard to look like a kpop star is much harder to reach than the standard of putting on a little bit of muscle. There’s a study that was conducted by okcupid that determined women think 80% of men are ugly, so that already filters out a large portion of the population of men from being able to meet the standard kpop look. This standard is definitely unsustainable and is mainly driven by profit motive from the music industry to sell a product, which is an unrealistically perfect beauty standard. This is possible because women have way more economic power then they ever had in the past (not saying this is a bad thing) which in turns allow the music industry to construct a product that is popular and profitable. But then again the birth rate in Asian countries can be one outcome of this standard, of course another factor that leads to this outcome is economic. I’m just making assumptions about the outcome but it hits on why some people may criticize these new standards.
Didn't Genghis Khan welcome Chinese siege engineers into his horde once he had difficulty taking fortified Chinese cities?
I used to find masculine men more attractive until I started following Wang Yibo, who is probably the most attractive man I have ever seen. He definitely has a handsome but still softer look that is incredibly hot and attractive. So softer can still be really desirable to a lot of women. It just doesn't fit the western beauty standards.
It is important to understand western perceptions of beauty dominated bc and only bc westerners held the hedgemony in this world. If that falters than people will see more and more "others" rise in importance.
Americans call them "pretty boy"
@@BluEx22329and Americans are gay 🗿
I'm glad I found this channel. I've always wanted the Asian perspective.
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
Yeah, learning a lot about asian culture and asian american perspective is really opening my eyes to their struggles. I had no idea the differences in oppression they have compared to black and brown people and why this oppression came into place.
Sidenote: I had no idea the sort of racism against asian men in the dating world until now, I thought they were so lucky to be the ones white people speak so highly of.
The video Aini did do is definitely about citing the extreme and also quite a deeply rooted cultural construct that's in Western and Eastern, that is mostly she's referring to Chinese, Japanese and Korean, cultures.
The main difference as to why she didn't, and the theories she references for her analysis, cite people like David Bowie, Timothy Chalamet, Prince, etc. is because these men represent the subcultures of their eras and the new wave of inclusiveness today, versus the still present heteronormative expectations of the ideal Western masculine figure, still found among Jason Momoa, Tom Cruise, etc.
With the rise of Eastern (Japan, China and South Korea) pop media, their ideals and ways of depicting male figures, however, did borrow some tropes from the West, particularly from American culture because most of the mid to late 20th century, the USA has had a major impact cultural wise because of their imperialism and the diaspora that resulted from the previous Major Wars.
But of course with the passage of time and the big 3 countries of East Asia honing their craft in presenting to the world their pop cultures as well as getting to know their ever widening audience, this has made a gradual shift from the (mostly American) Western ideal to questioning why masculinity and expectations of it have to be so rigid and idealizes only a certain type of male figure.
Hence why there were subcultures in the late 20th century, the reasons why we had a David Bowie and now, Timothee Chalamet and BTS.
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
@joycerichardson4128 Maybe to you yet their features are hailed as the quintessential masculine features in North America.
My ex bf was a dutch/white and he was a very proud feminine sissy boy.
It was a depressing relationship.
😭😭😭😭😭
I’m sorry. Hopefully you are in a better relationship.
@@readg4fun thank you. yes i am in a good relationship now.
@@Ocho9857 ikr
Thank you so much for providing your thoughts on this video! I was fascinated by her video.
The issue with Asian masculinity is perception in the first place in that there is a way to make it negative no matter what side of the coin it is. Not long ago Asian men were stereotyped as hyper aggressive and masculine which got categorized as "yellow peril". We are currently living through the "model minority" era which was just the opposite of that one. Look up schroedinger's Asian man or Schroedingers China to know what I mean. The fact Asian people ourselves hold and enforce this type of double standard fucks us up. What I mean is, if an Asian guy was masculine in the western sense, an Asian woman in particular might call them ugly or look too aggressive, toxic, etc. something negative but same look, white or even black and suddenly it's attractive and the "feminine" look becomes the accepted norm and people think that's the ONLY way someone Asian can look.
Aini actually has a point in that people think western masculinity is the objective norm, and it seems like you guys and people in the comments aren't immune to this. Chinese masculinity as you even described it yourself is about balance, and idk what's actually wrong with that. Also you guys should know damn well not all white dudes look like Hemsworth or all these other stars. What you are describing about balance is already being done in western media with variety of different looking white guys presented as love interests. Also, look at how zoomers and millenials dress now, it'd be "feminine" in some eyes right and nothing at all like what Hemsworth and Mamoa look like. Also goes back to my point above, reason why people don't think it looks "right" is because it's not presented as normal enough.
Basically balance and variety is what we should be striving for. Never be caught in one end or the other and let nuance exist.
Respectable comment
That's why i just say, fuck what all else thinks and just focus on YOU. after all, you only live once.
The average American male does not look like Sylvester Stallone or the Rock. They might want to look like that but it’s just a fantasy. Secondly, the average woman is not looking for that in a partner. They might be looking for a tall dude, but not a pro wrestler. I think there is a disconnect between what men think women want and what women actually want.
Well in America if you dressed up like a Kpop looking fella you would 100% get picked on & bullied in school on a daily basis.
You get more bullied for liking asian culture than being a homo..the racism is real in america
I'm non-Chinese and I wasn't aware of Chinese men being seen as feminine. It's probably because I've seen a lot more Chinese in person than I've seen Chinese men in the Hollywood movies. Actually, there are very few Hollywood movies that have Chinese men.
Agree actually. Most of those portrayed as Chinese men are not from China but some southeast asian country or Japan. Theres almost no Chinese men but few Chinese women, and most of the native Chinese actresses arent short even when compare to the North European actresses, so obviously Chinese actors will similar scenario lol
The pretty boys that girls like always have very good genetics. It isn't just about the hair and the make-up. Most men couldn't do the prettyboy look that girls like
Those women are lowkey bi. Thats like straight men preferring hard face studs
Motley Crue went nuts doing that ooh girl don't i look prettier than you thing and they got that from the glam artists of the 70s
TBH I really doubt that the 'roids archtype is what girls dream for. Just take a look on love movies, usually destinated to a feminine audience, you'll rarely find a Jason Momoa as the protagonist, it is more likely to find: George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Keanu Reeves, Jason Priestley, Patrick Dempsey, Johnny Depp, Leonardo di Caprio, Bradely Cooper.
But those guys aren’t really feminine. They’re just not super muscular like a lot of the action stars. You would never see them wearing makeup outside of filming except maybe Johnny Depp. Or you won’t see them wearing feminine looking clothes.
Yes. There's nothing wrong with that, that's just the culture. The most desired asian guys are those K-Pop and like groups... which are basically the Boy Bands of the 90's and early 00's... and they were kinda effeminate too then. It's just the tastes... it can change too and they can go out of desirability as well.
agreed,if you look back N sync,backstreet boys,new kids on the boys,take that, even the beetles were kinda that skinny type of guys
Kpop main target are teen girls, so off course they would have young effeminate boys to cater to the young girls, I was fan of kpop when I was teen but I out grow it and when I see new kpop idols I am not interested in them as I used to be when I was kid
@@sakurakou2009 very true
And women preference and taste changes over time as they age, just like anyone actually. That’s how life works, the music industry just found the optimal product to sell to women especially younger women, but it’s not a good reflection of what overall leads to successful relationships because it’s more holistic than just looks and entertainment talent. Hell, for most men, learning how to make women laugh is sometimes more effective than looking good, but I’ll let y’all judge that one.
@@leeaznmode skinny doesn't equal effeminate. They didn't put make up on, hence appear more masculine than the K-pop.
It’s the pale, white skin. Pale skin is more attributed to female beauty. But I wouldn’t just say this is a Chinese men issue but Asian men in general. We’re typically smaller in stature compared to other men of color so we’re not seen as masculine. But what us Asian men can do to make up for our disadvantages, are to level up in all facets of our lives - money, muscles, and game.
Correction: **East Asian**
Us Mainland and Island Southeast Asians are the furthest thing from pale lol. For us it is probably more of the stature (even though I am a 6'2 outlier) as well as face shape. But 100% agree there are plenty of different ways to level up. Cheers brother, stay safe happy as well as blessed.
I agree, also heres a thought too, pale skin is typically not associated with health and vitality or virility or strength. Palesness is more associated with sickness, weakness, death and scary super natural stuff.
We are small because the stress level in Asia is high, the quality of life in Asia is not good.
Filipino men are also not considered manly and they not pale, will indian men are dark but they also short and skinny on average but they not considered as feminine men
@@sakurakou2009 I am a 6'2 Pinoy and I have never had anyone think I am feminine, nor any of the men in my family have dealt with that either lol. Thats wild.
Living in Asia, I thought many Asian men were gay but they turned out to be straight. The tells like flamboyant clothes, no body hair, higher voice, aren't normal tells in most asian countries
I thought the same when I moved to the west first. That white guys were all gay. All muscle on their arms but fat on their legs and belly, big eyes and short tempered. You guys can’t even look masculine or less feminine without pubes on your face. Typically guys with beards and stocky/muscly builds in asia are viewed as gay because most girls like lean guys with a clean face and sharp jaw in asia.
I wouldn't say the west entirely, I think in many places in Europe guys also like to look more like Kpop guys or Jpop guys. However, in America, you definitely do see the popular look for guys is more like that wilderness, lumberjack hipster types. I've never liked the American guy type of look. When I lived in Japan I definitely felt more at home since they prefer the lean/well dressed type of look.
Haven't seen them in England
Usually eastern europe and some part of northern europe, because they are near the Asia continent, so they have some influence by asian culture.
@@CoolNumber1Eastern Europeans are some of the most socially conservative, chauvinistic people on the planet. There’s no way you can ascribe Asian masculinity trait as being popular in these nations. The men thrive on this fact, for instance look how Putin is portrayed in media. But if you want to say this is common in that region of the world then it’s exponentially more common in western societies. There’s more example, I can even recall Andrew Tate in Romania being a great example of the type of men, women prefer in those countries. But whatever, only my opinion, probably close to reality than your comment though.
As a european chick, I agree to the fit and well dressed part, but I dont know any women in my circle who likes these child/girl-like Kpop faces. They really look like girls to me...I cant even say women but straight up children. Its wild. There is no character in the face...its just a smooth blank thing and I am sorry if this hits some stereotype/racial nerve but these k-pop folks, or even alot of young east asian actors: they really look very much alike. I know not all east asians look the same but the media really has a narrow selection there.
@@henrytep8884 "...some of the most socially conservative, chauvinistic people on the planet." Have you been in east asian societies before???? Dude they are conservative...I dont mind it, just saying.
I ran across your channel a few weeks ago. Really like the conversations and topics. With regards to this topic, I gotta say that I've played a role in branding Asian men from China, Korea, and Japan very feminine. I'm from LA and I have friends whose parents are from Asia and they look very different - more masculine. Especially my buddies who are from Lincoln Hts and Chinatown. I'll also add that I'm Latino so our definition of what it means to be masculine is very western. I'll be hitting Tokyo for the first time this year and I'm really excited - mostly cause I'm an anime fan. Anyway, keep it up. It's always great to hear different perspectives.
DiCaprio was never big and muscular but he was considered a sex symbol in the west.
You didn't have to be built like the Rock to get women.
He os very masculine. Were not talking about muscles only.
@@funkthat His facial features weren't very masculine
It's probably his eye color, specifically for him in titanic because he didn't workout or anything to change his appearance. He just rolled with what he had
He always had a baby face and wasnt every womans type in the first place...and men should focus on getting this ONE woman they wanna spend their life with and dont care about the rest. People should be more disciplined and spiritual and not so primitive because it causes nothing but trouble and pain.
It’s also probably partially has to do with the environment safety where in the western hemisphere it’s getting more dangerous after dark in public contrast with eastern Asian society are actually 100 times safer so you don’t necessarily need to be tough and masculine to feel secure cuz crime rates are very low in China Japan and Korea
I don't think most westerners feel that way
I mean.. when we see all the girls of every race fan girl over K-pop guys it’s hard not to assume that’s the look girls like so we need to copy it
The answer is in your sentence : " GIRLS " (in a big big majority)....
Sir, teenage girls have flocked to that soft look since the Beatles, Bowie, and Prince.
The way I've seen it explained is that it's a soft, gentle version of male sexuality because full blown men frightens them.
Please don't copy it asian boys ain't nick carter
I am a white chick from Europe. My observation is that of course east asian men can be masculine and attractive (to other races too) and they nail the "elegant masculinity" very well, but it is more rare, cause lets be very real...east asians are much smaller on average than western people...and we all know most women want men, who are at least a little taller than them. Then there is the issue that some east asian men look way to young until they are like 35 or something. They can look like teens up until this age and asian faces can be very round and flat which gives this "cute baby" look. Some women are into this maybe I dont know. It doesnt help that east asia promotes their most young/feminine looking guys to the west. I mean, BTS looks like a bunch of girls to me. They have character-less porcelain faces, pouty lips...if you slap a wig on K-Pop stars they all look like girls to me. The last thing I could bring up is maybe the lack of facial hair? Not many asian men with beards out there and some women really love beards. Its not that much of a preference for me but yeah a beard can ooze masculinity.
Attraction super is biased. There are girls in Europe who like the style of East Asian guys and there girls in Europe who doesn’t like. It’s all based on who you are more attracted to. I know many white females who are into that BTS look and because of that want some Asian dude who look like that. It’s pretty subjective 🤷♂️
@@allio3459 Dude I was talking about WOMEN not naive little girls/teens or early 20s. How old are these women who like BTS that you know? Cause in my experience, its very young, dim, naive chicks and when I see "...based on that they want a guy that looks like this..." I knew we are not talking about smart, mature women who are looking for someone to marry.
@@calistafalcontail Masculinity in east asia is more about mentality, which is somehow always overlooked by westerners. Masculinity is not about how much beard and muscle you have, that is shallow level, instead a mature enough mind to learn stuff from all aspects and keep humble to appreciate the beauty of different things. You might see bts look like girls, but do you know the behind scence they have trained? The discipline to chase for the career success, the focused mind to train their body (do you know they're ripped as well?) Are these mentalities counted as masculine then? I'm literally looking like a bts but I go to the gym and stand 5'11, I've never trust the myth saying us being effeminate male - I just focus on my goals even I'm having a so-called feminine image, which is also how I stood out from others as what my english girlfrield told me. She said: The way you're projecting masculinity is different from other white guys. You don't try hard to impress me how masculine you're by beard and muscle, but a mature mind to handle things and struggles.
*And to be honest, east asian, depends on which part, they could be quite tall ranging from 6 to 6'2 and still not counted as outliers.
Smaller in terms of what? East Asian men have almost the same average height as American men. In China in some places the average height is 5’8 + but the average height of Chinese are 5’7.5”....... Also your comment about younger woman liking them because they look “younger” is super weird. It’s called trying not to age as fast which a lot of people do. There are also a lot of older fans. And who are you to call someone Naive for being attracted to them? The word bidnashi/Bishounen was also inspired by China meaning pretty boy/man. It was already rooted in culture a very long time ago especially with the Japanese. Excuse us for looking younger than we are, that’s just how a lot of our genetics are.
Some women have different taste than yours, it's normal. I'm Greek white and I prefer Asians, smaller and elegant men physically. Not because I'm immature lol tastes differ..When I was younger the most popular guy was johnny Depp, he was a small handsome dude. It's more common opinion than you realize
I’m from southeast china chengdu, beauty standard here is different, partially inspired by Higher Brothers prolly. The feminine standard is more popular in 江浙沪 where the high class scholar type 才子culture were from 😊
In cultures like turkish, arab, kazakh, uzbek etc., men take a lot of pride being men, and take that seriously. They seem to act a certain way and conduct themselves a certain way, and there are things they won't say or do.
This is based on my observations at a very multicultural university in the UK.
Whereas Asian guys seem to put lower attention on themselves or their appearance and are more easily accessible and available (for the lack of a better word). They don't work out as much. Whereas my Turkish or Central Asian friends are more into working out or they have hobbies like shooting or some sports like ice hockey or MMA.
Aggression and being upfront is something else I have noticed as being different between East/ South East Asians vs Middle Eastern/Central asians.
So many of the Asian movie stars look like women with short hair. Their features are so soft and their skin so fine and that red lipstick they wear is really effeminate! If I Were Gay and I was interested in dating a man that looks like a woman, I would date an Asian guy. As a woman I want a man who looks like a man and not anything like a woman
Go 90's, 80's and 70,s ...Chinese men use to be more masculine. Think about all the movie stars. Only a few could be called effeminate. Most were action movie stars Chow Yun Fat etc..
Yeah but that’s just in the movies, Chinese men also looked like how K-pop and Japanese looked during that time period too. It was because it was seen as cool to look like Jackie Chan that’s why you would see a lot of them being casted with those characteristics.... but in fact there were A LOT of Chinese men that resembled feminine traits in those years too. Don’t believe me? I will inbox you some pictures of them from the 70s,80s, and 90s.
Not k-pop in terms of style, but more so their facial characteristics as well as hair etc.
@CDwow123 Yes, there always was effeminate men. However, they were not overrepresented in media as an " ideal " type of men as they are today. Just look at most casting dramas. Do you know a new popular male actor that's not " good-looking ". Older drama and movies had fat men or not, so good-looking men in leading roles.
@@troublesome1101 Well that’s true, it’s just casting what is popular within a beauty standard. I’m not saying it’s right though.
@@troublesome1101 in 1990s Jimmy Lin and Alec Su were quite popular and mostly starred romcom that targeting female audience, and they were quite effeminate by 1990s standard. You just watched HK martial arts movies, for teenage romance movies the lead male had been effeminate since 1990s.
This trend is actually started by Japanese company, Johnny & Associates in 1970-1980s, later copied by Taiwanese in 1980s-1990s and by Korean entertainment industry in early 2000s. Before World cup 2002, no one in Indonesia know about South Korean entertainment, we used to watch Hongkong, Taiwan, and Japanese media more for East Asian media.
Love the content guys, keep it up!
I wanna comment again regarding America's entertainment focus on the Blue-Collar content and audience whilst the ones producing it are White-Collar. What a perfect summation of how they're able to appeal to most middle to low middle class people with their entertainment.
people seek what they dont have or experience in reality from entertainment. not really surprising.
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
@@pikachuthunderbolt3919I went to a half white half black school there were black guys that looked 35 and were jacked they made white guys seem feminine
China does not promote feminine men because of PTSD caused by the Mongolian invasion. On the contrary, this cultural atmosphere originated in the Song Dynasty and before the Yuan Dynasty. I could write a whole thesis on how this happened lol. In short, the proportion of civil（文）and military（武） in Chinese culture itself is not as extreme as you say, and the most respected great men in Chinese culture are basically related to the military. Maybe it is true that the buff guys are not particularly favored in our culture, but it is only because of different interpretations of masculinity, not because our culture favors feminine men.
The “softer” western men aren’t idealized for their masculinity though. They’re idealized because they’re seen as an alternative to that tough chiseled western masculine ideal. They’re seen as having positive qualities stereotypically associated with femininity like empathy and emotional intelligence. Obviously those aren’t the sole province of femininity but those gender roles and stereotypes put them in those boxes.
I was just thinking about this.. why does Asian men look so feminine...? I grew up in the times in kung fu movies the Asian men were manly and dangerous and brave and heros or villains. Now, they are kpop and feminine ... so yea, if you can help us understand why, that would be helpful!
Long story short. Mass media is pushing feminine type men because the government benefits from de masculine men. How? The masculine men pose the biggest threat to governmenta control over the masses. How you gonna fight back and protest if you gotta do goat yoga on monday?
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
Let me give my two cents worth...
1. Asians already look younger than their actual ages but these idols are literally young. They have to establish their groups before the members have to leave for compulsory military service.
2. Asian women probably have the slightest (petite) frame in body type: the salt and pepper shaker set has to match. ; )
3. Asian culture is very conservative. There is somewhat of a censorship going on but not necessarily by the government. You can get away with more risque´ behavior if it appears cute and harmless. Real in-your-face sexuality from mature body types is too scary for them.
4. Have you heard of the performer Rain? I rest my case.
East Asian men were 10x more masculine a few generation ago..Asians invented 90% of the world's martial arts, Samurai warriors, bushido, honorable military services, generations of wars, polygamous marriage.. all of those are lost today in Asia
@@lessismore3257 It's very simple. Think about why many men fetishize Asian women, because how small and cute they look. It's the exact opposite with Asian men the feminine look and build is a negative when it comes to what makes a man attractive to women.
China's ban on feminine men was to ensure their entertainment industry doesn't promote feminine male role models the way the Koreans do. If you compare the the whole Asian entertainment industry (movies and musics) between any other Asian countries it's very noticeable that none feminize their men the way the Koreans do. It's also no surprise why South Korea is not only known for 'plastic pretty' women but their men are also having plastic surgery to look like their idols. I haven't seen this trend with any other Asian nations. Not even close.
I dont get this asian(korean) mindset about "idols"...who the f has such a weak mind that they wanna be and look like someone else? Dont they know these idols are all fake as f and management slaves?
@@deekay13 How does the need for Kpop to expand internationally relate to feminizing their boys/men? There are many countries that would like to market their entertainment industry internationally but they don't feminize their males. There is no such trend anywhere else.
@@deekay13 I have been to Korea multiple times and while the average dude on the street there doesn't dress up like kpop idol , neither do the average dude in the U.S dressing up like Backstreet boys or Inysnc or the average Taiwanese boys/Japanese boys dressing up like their idols. Taiwan doesn't have a big enough domestic market for their boys band and they have mandatory military service but you don't see the same pop culture where almost every male band group is feminized and need to have certain looks. Your points are irrelevant. If you look at kpop boy bands, and their male movie stars almost all of them are promoted to have the same look .... the feminine look and the whole nations seems to take pride in feminizing Korean men. As a result, the average Korean men looks more "pretty" than manly due to the role models they were programmed with growing up. You won't find this with other Asian countries.
@@wf1764 What is really interesting is that the image of Korean men in Japan is tall and masculine But in other countries,,except Japan, it is quite the opposite..🤔And not only Korea, but also other Asian countries such as Thailand, Japan, and the Philippines are feminizing men, and Thailand is famous for its transgender/bl drama, and the bl culture comes from Japan And in the Philippines, there is a Ppop boy group called "SB19"(Ah,,,,+Thailand,Japan,Malaysia,Myanmar, Kazakhstan,Vietnam also have female boy groups)
Lol most young Americans have breast and butt surgery done
What is better to get insecure
A nose thing or butt thing
I am a white American and I happen to like softer men. I think Asian men are handsome and just FINE. 👍❤️
Grandmaaa chilll
@@kkmusick4206 I’m CRYINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
The issue with stronger men is higher violent, if a manly husband get mad, a single punch would kill his wife compared to soft men.
@@CoolNumber1wtf, is this one punch man saitama?? You actually think that men are one punching their wife to death more often because their western and more masculine?? What kind of narrative is that 😂. It’s funny sorry, it’s the way you described it, I actually have nothing against what you’ve said other than I think is a little bit hyperbolic.
@@kkmusick4206 no you chill bro, let old women enjoy sexuallity
There is a saying in Chinese, "qiong wen fu wu", meaning the poor read while the rich can practice the martial stuff. You see, the only way the poor can achieve upward class mobility is through
"keju". Otherwise, they have to work the land. To be a proper "wu" gentleman in the Chinese Empire, one needed money, time, and connections. Most of the generals in Chinese history came from wealthy upper class military family.
Asian people don't put so much emphasis on outward appearances.
It's also a myth that women are naturally attracted to muscular men.
Modern day male models are not so muscular in appearance even in western countries.
Generally a well proportioned slim body is more preferred than big muscular body in the fashion industry.
Western beauty standards vs. Eastern beauty standards are obviously different, but yes, East Asian men don't typically have the same physical attributes that are archetypically "masculine." Most aren't tall, broad shouldered, buff, have scruffy beards, etc. And maybe Chinese women don't always value those characteristics since Chinese culture has a greater emphasis on materialism and resource acquisition over setting athletic records or looking like a bodybuilder.
More likely US-Hollywood vs Japanized East Asian beauty standard. Current K-pop looks has root in J-Pop bishonen.
British, French, German male actors are skinnier and not as muscular as their Hollywood counterpart.
West = surgery and steroid.
chinese men are tall as fuck
@@green5260 Not according to statistics.
This shouldn’t be about looks, it should be about character. What?! The ugly dudes are jealous of the pretty boys??
3:32 Hit the nail right in the head where a huge majority of Asian men go for a more narrow spectrum when it comes to masculinity, sadly. With the largest population they caused this stereotype on themselves.
caused a sterotype? what stereotype caused by china? all stereotypes of asians in modern days are created by japs and koreans with all these anime nerds and kpop boys.
also it doesnt matter how wide the spectrum really is in china, the west wiil only reinforce those images of chinese men that meet western propaganda needs. you cant possibly believe 700millons Chinese men actually live by same values, social codes and very narrow spectrum of images.
@@hovera7946 Japanese have obvious subgroups and names for them and their anime's aren't based on Asians as they want to appeal for the Western market. But Koreans on the other hand have really influenced and seared the stereotype of Asian men.
@@hovera7946 I'm not isolating china, I'm referring to Asians in general especially the ones who grew up in the West where majority enforce that stereotype.
Dang home girl is speaking in x2
Nope your brain is just conditioned by youtubers who speak in x.5 to the lowest common denominator YOU
i’ll be honest. this topic is a no brainer esp for those who’ve studied propaganda and pop culture.
most people get lost in being reactionary they forget why they’re even talking about these topics like masculinity in a place most people around them on a daily basis wouldn’t even be able to phantom a reason to go cross a border.
a lot of people have talked about the ban of feminity but only perceive this as what roles gender plays. but they aren’t considering the fact that being human is only that. humans are flawed and when these topics come up it’s not even a crime but to micro manage populations and narrative. if we all bleed the same color and tend to have the same human problems esp with relationships then all this hype over law is just meant to keep the divide at bay rather than filling in the gaps.
too many people in these comments are in their feels. not enough critical thinkers. too many people just reacting with commentary and not enough self awareness.
often as humans we take from our surrounds esp taking from parents. at natures core masculinity and feminity are not bound in looks, hobby or careers. pop culture history indicates these are just common results we add association to as a society. but as natures core we have mothers and fathers. nature doesn’t stray from men being logical and women being emotional at their core. there are always nuances but biology in birthing people is pretty clear for what’s being assigned as masculine vs feminine.
the only way to win these games is to not play. but most people are addicted to pain shopping for validation and get lost in their cycles pining at being accepted and average to a point while benefiting as much as possible with the least amount of work.
i think the clip and discussion was interesting but i think there’s a lot of things this video lacks
I just feel like white men naturally have lots of physical features and confidence that I just find super attractive and masculine
well this black women loves the aura of manliness around most asian men ive met.
😒😒
LOL 🤣 what manliness? Being skinnier and smaller than most women?
@@BlackJeepConvertible maybe having a job would be the start 😀
Lol
@Ladysimonetv Asyan men (and women) in Chayna always compare their height with mine when I'm walking down the street, I'm 5 feet 3 btw 😂
I think labeling masculinity and femininity on looks alone is a big problem with many societies. Tall, thick, lumbering deep voiced assertive men can feel forced into being a dreamed up masculinity causing mental issues and are seen as someone to "beat" in order to gain masculine status. Just as petite, short, slender fingered, soft voiced, docile women are idolized as ideal feminine to be seen as most desired partners. Girls are raised malnourished to stunt growth, keep smaller frames, and be petite which causes health and mental issues later in life. Just as boys are forced into sports and whatnot to get bigger which can cause mental issues for not living up to this dreamed up "ideal". Asian men are extremely masculine, because they are men. Men = masculine no matter the stature, build, and such. Western men seem larger but are not so big compared to western women. Beautiful men are just as masculine as rugged men. Masculinity and femininity are a dreamed up social concept that can cause people to self harm for not fitting. I get so sick of the norm forcing ideals on the young. My son was beat up in freakin Pre-K and kinder for being feminine looking with a tall slender frame and beautiful face. 3rd day of kinder other kids were calling him a "She-boy". He was crying on the walk home asking if he was really a girl. 💔 Society is twisted for labeling masculinity/femininity at all. Everyone is lovely in their own way.
I think you are thinking idealisticly. A deep voice, strength, competence, height, are all strongly associated with manliness for better or worse
@@leigh7507 I can't see strength and height as "manliness". I am about 6ft, varsity track/field and varsity basketball, ex EMT, ex army combat medic attached to the infantry, ex model, ex circus performer, ex roadie building stages, ex roofer/demolition/remodeling that can lift a man up onto my shoulders and walk off. As a woman I do not see that as manly, I see it as doing jobs that I was built able to do. Sis is an ex pro wrestler and an accountant. My past bf were 5ft to 6'4. I cannot physically become smaller without lopping off limbs, so why would a man born smaller in skeletal frame be less of a man when he is genetically designed to be so? Competence is desired in every mate and to say it's only in men is ridiculous. Manliness is a silly social construct. Voices come in all pitches (mine was 3 octives in college choir) and it is a personal preference. But since mine and my family's norm don't match society's I am unable to see strength, height, voice pitch, or competence as masculine as those are in all genders/everyone in my family. It's not idealistic, it's my reality for over 46 yrs.
@@umibear7951 but is it even a social construct? Theres studies that show strength, body hair, and a deep voice are linked with high male testosterone,
I understand that both biological standards and cultural standards of masculinity can be harmful to those who deviate from the idealised form - but denying it wouldnt help
Having Chinese blood descendants in my viens
I prefer femine masculine Chinese guy
Eastern and western are totally different girl.
I’m Asian man but not a feminine…more like masculine. The problem is those type of Asian men never knew how to be a man in the first place..
You are correct. Asian guys let themselves be feminine. *1st Generation Asian American male Super Chad* here. I am calling Fung Bros out to invite me to one of their podcast one day so I can talk about my journey of dating outside my race with ease. I gotta get permission from my wife first because she was pissed off at me for telling other TH-camrs how many White ex-gfs I got in my entire life as compared to all the other Hispanic girls, Black girls, and lastly other Asian girls that I dated. lol To Fung Bros; yes you can still have the old Asian poetic view of masculinity as well and get girls. It's really how you market yourself out in the world to girls since no girls want a Robot Chad who doesn't have any emotional understanding to the *Way of Life.**It takes more than just a sexy manly face and body to get girls.*
@@coolgamers2794 anyone who unironiclaly calls themselves a Chad is just a clown and probably a bitch 😂
@@coolgamers2794 "male super chad" Hahaha oh boy keeps trying
@@Gabby__88 Cry more 🤣 I'm too old to be schooling you kids 😎 Ladies love me.
That’s just East Asian. Southeast Asian have warrior cultures
@@goldtau697 not as east asian dude! they embrace more of that feminine traits and korean media is notorious for that
Southeast asia just copies whatever east asia foes
South east asia like who cuz fron what I see in gulf arab countries indonesian malaysian filipino women travel to those gulf countries for work abd their men remain in asia what kinda warrior culture is that 🤔
Servant culture???🤭
You mean short and servant culture lol
China is almost always near the top in olympic gold medals. I feel like strength isn't an issue.
In a civilized society men don’t need to be as masculine as those savages in the stone age
@@TDK2K you better check your definition of ‘civilized’ first otherwise I might think the civilized America is even more barbaric than a uncivilized country.
@@csl9495 it’s relative the current American men are pussy compared to the cowboys 200 years ago right?
Your definition of masculinity seems to be limited to brutal behaviour and strength...but thats not what masculinity is. There is elegant masculinity of course and its a certain aura too. The ability to protect and provide is still very desired and most women dont want men who also look like women. Thats just a fact. Brain matters and soft skills matter of course too. You just imagined one extreme here. The other extreme is, when men, like these korean idol dudes, look literally like little teenage girls. I swear if you just show me their faces without hairstyle and body...I cant say if its a woman or man. They look weakly, vain and have no character in their face. They also really look all alike to me and I know not all east asian look alike but these young celebrities do.
@@calistafalcontail the definition of masculinity inferred in this video is more on the appearance side which I think is overrated. Like you said, I think masculinity should be more on the inside. Another aspect of the issue is that the positive characters associated with masculinity don’t need to be confined in any gender.
@@ziiiim Asian musculinity is about put off the clothes slowly to seduce whilst western msculinity is about get naked straight away and start banging; they be like: look how masculine i am, how big i am and how strong i am!!!! This is how it differs. LOL!
There's an Asian guy who attends the gym where I work out that looks almost exactly like Conan the Barbarian from the 90s cartoon "Conan the adventurer." He is buff and swole like that, and also tall. From behind he could pass for Conan, but of course his face is very Asian (I think probably Chinese but I'm not sure). His girlfriend is white.
so good man!
Awesome analysis fung bros! I think it is a good thing that China is shifting more towards the traditional masculine ideal of men as I believe these kind of men lead a nation to divinity. I believe that Men have the Divine Imperative to become as capable, powerful, and competent as possible in this life.
I recognize that language a man of culture
Divine imperative? What now? 🤨
@mindmathmoney8503 reported for spam
@@accordiongordon if you know you know if not dont worry mate
Nope
American and Latin men are the most aggressive men in this world who set up the bulky man as a standard
Otherwise past Englishman had always set the gentleman thing for man
Even I think Napoleon never use to have this much bulkier and heavy body which many American actors have
Whatever your attitude is , it's upto u
But Americans strictly need to reduce their weight
U need to know that even in ancient times
Men in army were the most masculine and hard
while the server in palaces were more like gentleman
men as artists were soft and were very artistic ( not today's **** where u have to use female abusing words to make music )
So u can't put every man in macho thing or very gym hitting guy
Asian people have a lot of pressure and expectations
This conversation is getting boring. People like what they like.
The funny thing is if you blame fifa, u understand feminine boys come from Korea Kpop😂
True...I honestly can not distinguish these K-Pop dudes from girls, if you would slap a wig on them and just show me their faces. Its wild.
@@calistafalcontail Ikr, but fifa Korean are beasts. I mean there is difference between handsome pretty guy than girly guy. Leonardo DiCaprio is a pretty guy
Manliness is different from attractiveness or hotness. I mean, if i remember correctly there was that asian guy who was said to be the hottest guy in the world, from a magazine. I don't know much about that. But if that's the case, then masculinity be damned right? If you're touted as the hottest in the world right now? 🤣
But, in some ways yes, she's right. Most asian men have feminine features. It's because of the culture built around what asians think of "hot". Not manly, but hot or attractive. In Asia which local celebs are deemed as hot? Kpopers, jpopers, those who look like girls. I mean, white as girls, no tan, nothing.
Asian marketing has programmed asians to be drawn to those guys who look feminine. Look at ads. Even men are said to be handsome if they are as white as porcelain, yet in the US, Europe, western countries, particularly whites try so hard to get a tan, or at least not too white that they look like chinawares.
It's prone in asian countries that even men are opting to learn how to put on makeup or at the least put on powder or foundation.
Also most Asians don't try to build their body. We are already short, yet either we're too thin or too fat. Even celebs don't try to buff up. We also don't have chest hair, though some have really thick leg hair 😂.
But it's not to say that all are like that, look at the guy playing shang chi. Then there's the guy from the asian rom com flick a few years ago about the wedding thing. They have manly features.
Some asian men don't have those manly faces, either they're round or too thin. And then there's these kpop people, some even have plastic surgery to look more feminine.
But who cares 😂. If you have a girlfriend or wife or if you get girls, who cares 😂.
Let's also add that having a cool, interesting personality, which is an expression of non-conformism or at least the perception of it (why David Bowie, Prince and many rock stars are sought after and despite their so called "feminine look") or being good at flirting with women (having unapologetic sexuality, wittiness, and extroversion to put yourself out there) is not exactly a thing in Asian culture, at least not until globalization. Having a collectivistic attitude and constant self-consciousness of how others think of you and "your kind" and the common nerdy retort of "we have the money and/or are smart, why don't we get all the attractive women" just kinda proves the point.
I am agree w you david.....Humans in the male genre who look feminine cannot be judged by all Asian men like that, and when seen in real life the comparison is reversed. and all unique every part of asia.
When you are watching a video but the most impactful part is noticing how the sun was up at the start and it set at the end
I think she's talking about men in East Asia. You hardly see any guys over here like that.
My Chinese male idols: Bolo Yeung, Bruce Lee, Chow Yung Fat, Jet Li.
Take some responsibility asian guys, workout and be more stoic. Blame society just make you look weak
Ayyy there it is.
It is both society fault as well.
There are factors that you can't just overcome with hard work. There's also a difference between blaming and analyzing the root cause
Asian men literally own the meritocracy ladder, and you expect us to do more? Do you just want to deny the fact that western media does portray asian men in a certain way, and that the only good representation asian men get is from strong asian nations with power such as China, Japan, and S.Korea, because their economic power house. We make the most money in America, we are only 5% of the nation's population, and you still expect us to do more??? We can't win in trying to be athletes because we get stigmatized and stereotyped out of being on any sports team. We are literally some of the most stoic people on the planet, and you somehow want us to be more stoic?? This is literal bs narrative coming from an incompetent, ignorant person who doesn't want to understand asian men struggle in the west. We're literally are the last people to blame anyone or anything, we barely speak, we were programmed to conform. When did asian men blame society, I don't see that anywhere, we usually keep our head down and do our fucking work, provide for our family (look at our marriage rate and divorce rate), and you still want MORE from us. Damn some people just don't want to understand the struggle. There's so much data, and research done on making asian men effeminate in the west, alot of it rooted in racism and stereotype.
@@henrytep8884 lol, ya you sound like a complainer. If you are really stoic you wouldn't give a shit about media.
Theoretically, the yin to yang ratio should be 2 to 3 (or 6 to 9 to be precise).
Sup Fung Bros podcast. 😊 I am a regular AZN man. Hehe. I just ate some noodle soup, wonton style. It was delicious during the cold winter months.
if i looked kpop, i would double down on it immediately. inbox would be exploding
Asian's are the most feminine looking race, hence if you're a woman who's Asian it's a positive but if you're a male it's a negative. Of course this only becomes a huge factor when you live in a country like America where there's a lot of diversity on the dating market.
In war, being physically bigger can make you an easier target.
to be fair what other culture promotes affeminate Men?
India does not
Pakistan does not
Nigeria does not
South Africa does not
Jamaica does not
Australia does not
Russia does not
Italy does not
Dubai does not
Its actually not a Western thing at all virtually no culture outside of China, Korea and a lesser extent Japan have this prominent affeminate male promotion.
Hell before WW2 neither did China, Japan and Korea to be honest.
because we are. just the facts ma'am.
That's not an issue for Tibetan men
asian men put sports last and school first.
I think u missed a bit of aini's point. What western view as feminine, to asian is not feminine. And that masculinity is not only made up of muscle. One can have have soft pretty boy look but regard as masculine due to his knowledge, intelligence or capability to contribute to society. Even with david bowie or timothy chamaleet, they are not main stream because me coming from Asian country, I often see in western movie that men masculinity always define as muscular, dominant, beard etc.
I sighed when I saw the title
what do you consider someone like Stephan Curry or David Beckham? They are athletic but also would be considered pretty boys.
Asians in general are sweeter and more feminine, that's why i chose to marry one lol
Mongolians and Manchurians conquered china 🤷♂️
Interesting discussion, gents. Have y’all heard about Lu XiaoJun? He’s widely considered one of the best (and most aesthetic) Olympic weightlifters in the world.
There's been many in the past. Only one I can think of right now is Wu Jing. He is one masculine actor.
Yo wtf, how about Daniel Wu or Daniel Henney or Jeong Ji-hoon (aka Rain (Bi) part of the old school kpop),
just an example.
To me when someone says feminine, their body structure is just more like a woman's. I dint think it matters but yeah. It's just an appearance thing because Chinese xan be very aggressive while looking feminine. It's just their genetics. Western countries are more heterogeneous, while Asian countries, specifically China, is homogeneous.
As a gay man Chinese men will always be attractive to me my ex boyfriend he's from Macao he was so adorable
I think both arguments have valid points...