ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- When we started our bonus project to communicate via the geostationary satellite QO-100, we created a to-do list:
- A high power 2.4GHz transmitter
- A sensitive receiver for 10GHz
- And an internet connection to the Adalm Pluto
In the last video, we built a prototype for the transmitter. We just need an antenna to complete the task. So this week, we will make a cheap first version of the receiver. And hopefully, listen to the first signals from space. And you will learn “PLL.”
I am a proud Patreon of GreatScott!, Electroboom, Electronoobs, EEVblog, and others.
My HAMradio channel: / @hb9bla
Links (also from other QO-100 videos:
Adalm Pluto SDR Receiver: amzn.to/3fSQPxk
PLL LNBs: www.passion-radio.com/satelli...
Green LNB (good for external clock modification): ebay.to/2WV3reR
Pre-amplifier: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dUe...
20W amplifier: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dWL...
8W amplifier: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dZt... or amzn.to/2SKoBLv
Power Meter: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Bfg... or amzn.to/35FNdtV
SMA torque wrench: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_d7o... or amzn.to/2zeEG5b
50W Attenuator (not tested): s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dZA...
The links above usually are affiliate links which support the channel (no additional cost for you).
Supporting Material and Blog Page: www.sensorsiot.org
Github: www.github.com/sensorsiot
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Discord: / discord
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This series is so good! You've become such a pro at presenting highly technical concepts in an understandable way. Thanks!
Glad you like it!
Great video series, really glad you decided to do this for us!
I am glad you like it!
The guy in Antarctica does not know what will happen shortly...
True!
Antarctica inhabitants previous thoughts about krack/krook Wifi vulnerabilities: hey, we live together, there are only penguins outside, these penguins run on ice and fish not on linux we don't need any firmware updates to our 4 APs... now they started to search for the WiFi upgrades :)
Maybe hes watching Andreas his channel. :D
Always interesting to listen to people when I don't know what you're talking about since it makes me want to find out or experiment. :) (get bits, here and there.)
That is exactly the mentality I like!
Thank you for this. I am enjoying watching this series.
I use to work with a lot of two way commercial satellite using both LNB and BUC (Block Up Converter) so I understand everything you are talking about. You explain it in a way everyone can understand. Thanks for the great content. 🙂
Thank you for approving the content. I just started with microwaves...
What a great series, I started watching you because of sensors and microcontrollers a very long time ago, I had no idea you would now awaken my Ham radio interests. Time to dig out my SDR again.. Keep up the good work!
That is what my wife says. Always good for a surprise;-)
What a superb video. I learnt so much and finally understand PLL. Brilliantly done, Andreas.
That was my goal ;-)
Thanks for keeping us updated on this project. Also a great description of PLLs.
I thought I include the PLL because it is such an important concept.
@@AndreasSpiess
You certainly explained it better than the first time I was taught about it decades ago. I gained a great understanding of it, but as I recall it was through my own experience. 🙂
Thanks Andreas, it seems that is still possible follow you closely. Nice explanation of the PLL principles.
What do you mean with "follow you closely"?
Nothing wrong, I hope. I mean that with my RF knowledge I still follow every step you comment on and keep the concept of what you are doing. It is a complex project and you are introducing a lot of theory, necessary but very close to the RF discipline.
But, I at least manage to follow you (closely?)
Another interesting video, look forward to see it all working.
Me too ;-)
I am really enjoying this series of videos!
A few fellow researchers of mine are potentially going to be working with long-distance audio-video transmission for a UAV medical challenge. Having this sort of knowledge presented by these videos are great introduction!
Thank you very much and please keep it up!
There are two other videos about RF technology if you are interested
Finally, after more than 40 years dabbling in electronics as a hobby, I understand what a phase locked loop is, how it works and what you might use it for. Thank you Andreas!
I only showed one application. They can also be bused for FM demodulation, for example.
Excellent! I have been getting sporadic signals from DOSAAF-85 (RS-44) only twice in more than 50 attempts! Thanks for sharing!
This satellite is quite simple because it is pinned to the sky ;-)
I know most of this stuff, but have never seen it presented so well. Especially in such a short time. Thanks. I received my Pluto yesterday.
Too bad I can’t “see” the satellite from here. I still will learn a lot from you as always.
Thank you for the compliment! And enjoy the Pluto.
Very cool. We are so lucky to have use of that spare transponder.
Absolutely!
Very inspiring, it will stretch the boundaries of my projects. Thanks Andreas!
Great to hear!
Excellent video on such complicated topic. Thank you!
You're welcome!
Wow! I wasn't able to grasp theory of PLL but you cleared a lot of my doubts with your practical explanation. :)
The Basics are not complicated. The implementation can be tricky...
@@AndreasSpiess Yes you are right. They seem simple now after clear understanding. Thanks for your great content it helped me a lot for my projects and other electronics stuff 👍
Very interesting project! I don't think that I'll make one soon, but I love to learn from you and others! You are the best Andreas!!! Stay safe and order your finger to get better by Friday!
On 28th I have the next doctor‘s appointment. Then we will see...
@@AndreasSpiess If I could, I wold wear the bad finger for you, so you are 100%!
Oooo PLLs!! I always thought those were cool. The CD4046 was my first experience with them -- a Radio Shack experiment kit I have came with one. It also had a 4040. Didn't think to put the two together! 😁 Looking forward to learning about how multiplication works at this scale as well.
We will probably only look if it works, because I have no instrument for 9.7GHz.
Simply wonderful and inspiring. Thank you Andreas.
My pleasure!
I'm using pll preamble everyday in each ethernet-like PHY that i have :) thank you for the next video - you are doing great things for the youtube electronics worldwide :)
Thank you. This project is mainly for me ;-)
Very interesting. Thank you so much. I've heard of PLLs but never had the opportunity to work with them. Your video has opened another door for me. Looking forward to the video that addresses phase distortion. Sounds like that is an important concern.
Not a simple topic. I will see how far I will get with my (cheap) instruments.
This is very cool. Thank you for starting this project
My pleasure!
Amazing explanation of a PLL, thank you
You are welcome!
Grüezi! Thanks for the awesome video! Feels like I'm watching @TheSignalPath with a ham radio twist :)
He knows much more than me about microwaves. I always learn a lot from his videos! And he has the better instruments;-)
Great video, maybe mention to the non ham viewers the ease of adjusting the PLL frequency with the digital counter was a revolution for consumer digitally controlled radio receivers :)
Good addition. Thank you!
This is the single most easiest explaination of PLL I've ever seen.
Thank you!
@@AndreasSpiess Hi I'd suggest add PLL tag to your video so people searching for PLL explanations can reach this video.
Thank you for a great series !
Glad you enjoy it!
Awesome explanation about the PLL
Glad you liked it
Guten tag Andreas, Amazing as usual, Where were you when I was studying PLL 40 years ago. :P
Greetings from Milan Italy.
I was probably studying PLL, too. And also had my problems with it.
Andreas Spiess I see I'm not the only one awake at 5 am.
Very good!
For many persons who have seen some amateur radio station (e.g. for shortwave or VHF) it is very surprising how simple a QO-100 station can be, especially after hearing about 2.4 GHz uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
However as you explain, we are very lucky to find ridiculously cheap components available at AliExpress and Analog Devices.
So the completed station may still be amongst the simplest possible amateur radio stations :-)
You are right. But it is very hightech....
@@AndreasSpiess True! And the waterfall display is very nice to have.
Congratulations on getting the signals, that is an accomplishment! Yes, satellite dishes are tricky to aim. At one point my house had four of them, including a 1m dish to pick up interesting Free To Air TV signals (asorted ethnic TV channels) just for fun.
We have lots of tv channels on cable. So the last dish i directed was early 1990s.
Great video! Waiting for the tx part :) ssb but also some datv in future with some good amp. Thanks a lot for your effort!
SSB is in planning. Datei: I do not know
he was not kidding i subscribed and i'm sitting in front row
Only very few neighbors ;-)
Good idea on using a Ku band LNB and dish, I did not realize how cheap they are these days...
As a kid I used to put up C band sat dishes. The LNB in those (early models were LNA!) had a bent wire rotated on a servo to change polarization. Noise figures were measured in Kelvin and were not so good in the late 80's ...
Looking forward to future episodes, cheers and take care.
I can imagine that 10GHz was an extremely high frequency when these things started. Now it is like in paradise
@@AndreasSpiess - Noise floor was a big problem. No (good) GaaS FETs in those days. I left that work while in the C band era (~4 GHz).
Now in my work I am getting into NR that goes northwards of 35 GHz.. luckily I don't have to deal with the Radios directly, just the fronthaul...
Cheers,
Very interesting video as usual. Thank you!
You are welcome!
Wonderfull !! Awesome, really excellent project/video.
Thank you! It is also fun for me...
Thank you Andreas!
You are welcome!
I enjoyed your presentation
Thank you! I hope you watched the whole QO-100 series ;-)
excellent RF vid - thanks
You are welcome!
Nice, very interesting! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Wow. That is complicated stuff!
Yes, you are right!
Hi bud I worked for sky TV for 3yrs before I realized that the dish elivaion was to low it faces a ground based antenna admire your work bud gerry
Thank you!
Really enjoyable and interesting, a fascinating series 73s
Glad you enjoy it
Gets very interesting. Thanks
Glad you think so!
The little inexpensive (~$20) in-line "signal finders" are very useful. They emit a tone that is proportional to the total IF signal on the cable. Makes it quick to peak-up the dish aim, once you've found a satellite. Then you check to see if it's the RIGHT satellite. If not, you can move along the arc to the next one.
I am not sure those work with this transponder. But I have ins on order to try.
Great content thanks . Stay safe.
Thank you
You are amazing :D Thank you for everything
73s
You are welcome.
Excellent
Thank you!
Great series, Thanks Andreas
73 de 7X2UV
Great video Andreas! I have been enjoying this series a lot. At the end of the video you said we need an accurate 25MHz frequency but then demonstrate successful reception. What oscillator were you using in the demo? The standard LNB? Also the received signal sounds very digitized, what is the reason for that?
1. I used a standard LNB. But the frequency had to be adjusted frequently
2, SSB sounds a little digitized. That is normL
amazing video keep it up bro
Appreciate it
@ 2:20 - I calculated precisely where you live....... just kidding ;)
I know it by heart ;-)
No kidding it's be possible.
Thanks for keeping us up to date with this interesting project!
I think you could also do frequency calibration in software by looking at the QO-100 beacons. From amsat-dl.org: "The upper beacon with the 400 bit/s PSK modulation is essential for many users of QO-100, because it is mainly used by users of the "SDR-Console" by Simon Brown G4ELI (SDR-Radio), or similar programs, to stabilize the frequency of unmodified PLL-LNBs for reception. As the PSK beacon on the ground is very accurate in frequency due to a GPS reference, the drift of the LNB in the SDR receiver can be compensated automatically."
This s one of the possibilities i will try....
I'm surprised that they can reach Geo sats in Antarctica. They must aim the receiver basically horizontally and go trough a lot of atmosphere. But obviously it works! Learned something (among other things!) Danke Andreas! Isch ächt cool, was du da machsch!
If my research is right, their elevation angle is 35 degrees (they are at 70 degrees)
Awesome!
Thanks!
I was never sitting in the first row but always close to the window...it seems to become smarter too ! ;-)
now you have a new fan . I love your clear structured videos and your suiss accent...greetings from Elsass.
On peut visiter ton atelier ? ;-)
Tu peut visite mon atelier si tu veut...
Habe jeweils keine Ahnung was du da machst 😂😂 aber cool was du da machst!
Danke für diesen Kommentar! Ich habe ihn meiner Frau gezeigt, um damit zu prahlen ;-)
Hrmmmm I've been out of the multiplexing space for a very long time. Signal noise and filtering in the frequency range you envision is giving me a headache! Looking forward to the next episode!
I cannot follow your thoughts :-(
Super, j'ai une clé SDR en attente de livraison et deux vieilles paraboles avec leurs LNB .... je vais essayer dès que possible ...
Tres bien!
You could modify the LNB to transmit the LO freq to the satellite... Great videos thx.
The uplink is at 2.4GHz
Wow! That is soo cool. I have a satellite dish with an LNB. I understand that my LNB cannot be used in your application but the dish will work? Are you going to go over building an LNB? I’m sooo excited. My newest project. Most will be bored to death. But for me, listening to something that’s floating around in space is “out of this world”!
1. You can listen to QO-100 with every LNB and an SDR dongle for 10 dollars. The frequency will wander and you always have to adjust. But you should hear signals
2. I will not build an LNB, but I will modify one to use a stable frequency source.
Great, you are creating very valuable lessons! This satellites projects are my favorites.
How did you chose the span of your station? Do the radio amateurs go for the smallest possible to save bandwidth for others?
Also, at the end of the series could you share the electric diagrams of the modifications?
SSB is a standard. So nothing to decide...
YES! Andreas uses 40-series chips I don't have to use my internal 40 to 74 converter :-D ....more of this Andreas I am busy collecting all the parts for QO100
They are not used in the project ;-)
Front roww🤙🏾♥️
:-)
Good stuff 🧞♂️🕵🏿♂️🖖👍
Thank you!
Great!
Thank you!
I am doctor and i am loving what he says
Thank you!
Ha - the girl with the swiss accent :) But I am living like 2km from the base of Es'hail home :) Never knew that I would see a TH-cam video from Switzerland involving it !
I am very happy that we were given this opportunity to use such an infrastructure!
@@AndreasSpiess It is super cool that they give access to that 'spare' transponder. I wonder if the local radio society played a role in paving that way, or how it came to happen. I cant imagine that the operators themself had the idea out of sheer generosity :)
I do not know the whole story. Some German HAM radio operators were also involved in the deal and the operating of the HAM transponder is still done by the Germans.
Maybe just luck...
@@AndreasSpiess one day I might take my bicycle up the hill and have a chat with them - then we will know more :)
Sir... you just solve my problem :)
Which one?
@@AndreasSpiess i struggling to understand about PLL... and i just Found who can explain it to me clearly
I thought of how you got the 10GHz for receiving, but now the answere is logical. Pun intended.
:-)
Please make this project a playlist!
It is in a playlist.
@@AndreasSpiess Oh, didn't see it. Quite a project it is!
I am a new subscriber with MSEE degree and very impressed with content. I have just ordered several ESP32’s however confused with the publish dates of the videos. How can I select videos so I will receive your latest opinions in each subject you expertly explain?
Best regards.
Welcome aboard the channel! I have some playlists for particular topics.
I was going to ask about the Doppler effect. The PLL will track it.
No Doppler because the satellite is geostationary.
Can a PLL be used to generate arbitrary frequencies, or only ones that can be frequency-divided to get down to the input? For example can I take a 1 kHz input, and use a PLL to get a 333 kHz output, without having a 333:1 divider? Also, the oscilloscope images use square waves, and the phase comparator explained as XOR would only work with those, but most RF stuff uses sine waves instead. How does that work?
1. You need to divide your signal with the exact multiplication ratio
2. This was a simplified explanation. Those PLL chips should also work with sine waves. PLLs are often used for FM demodulation (see for example datasheet of 4046)
Great Video! I wonder if you could use a OCXO :)
Most of them are on 10 MHz. I will try a GPSDO
Andreas Hmmm, what about a SAW Oscillator? www.vectron.com/products/vcso/vs-401.htm
We only need 25 MHz for the LNB or 40 MHz for the Pluto. For sure you can multiply the 10MHz.But it is not a simple thing. Then I prefer a GPSDO...
Great how much does it take video! So is it a necessity to use a PLL/Crystal or is it only needed for longer transmissions to prevent temperature drift? Does the test setup at 13:30 use the crystal mod or the original LNB?
You have to stabilize your frequencies either by the LNB mod or with the beacon hack in SDR console. Otherwise it is no fun. Also for the uplink most people use GPSDOs. Otherwise your counterpart will not like to talk to you because your signal is not stable. I think I discussed the topic in a later video of the series.
@@AndreasSpiess 👍 great. Thanks for hint with the beacon hack as I would never have thought about things like that. I am just curious to show some non-techie kids and parents "how much does it take"
Do you know why they use SSB for modulation on QO-100 and not FM? Wouldn't it be easier to hold on to the frequency if a constant carrier would be sent and besides one could use a cheap FM device for modulation generation also.
I can understand hams use SSB on short wave and below due to the limited bandwidth, but bandwidth shouldn't be a problem on those high satellite 📡 frequencies (since there a whole broadband TV stations TXing, too).
- is it because SSB needs less TX power than FM?
@@Eurobunker SSB needs much less power...
@@AndreasSpiess Thank You for this answer as I hope it could help non-ham techies, too, since (mainly short wave obsessed) ham-tech seem pretty "obscure" for many.
One last question: for "internet techies" without ham SSB equipment laying around:
- do you think it would work to use a cheapo 10m CB-radio with SSB support (as often sold cheaply on ebay) and somehow apply an upconverter to obtain some SSB-modulated Watts on 2,4GHz?
Do you try to make an helicoidal antenna for transmitting ?
No. I have the parts for a patch.
Thank you, very good demonstration. Will it be possible to try the video DVB band too?. Is it possible to receive QO-100 (audio or video) using home Satellite TV Receiver instead of using SDR?.
You need an SDR to decode SSB
Thanks for your reply. I agree that is the case for the audio band. For DVB, the transmitter can use the same modulation type, symbol rate, FEC and encoding as that of a home satellite TV receiver. That is why I was thinking if it can replace the SDR for reception. Such a demonstration will be cool, less complex and affordable for users interested in reception only.
I do not know about the video signals. :-(
@@AndreasSpiess Unfortunately, I can't receive QO-100. However, I can definitely help with any related demo. Thanks again.
@@Ash-dk7kn For video reception, you need one of these: wiki.batc.org.uk/MiniTioune
kewl 📡
I had to google ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess Okay, I understand 🙈🙈🙋♂️
@@AndreasSpiess .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- -... ..- - / -.-- --- ..- / - .... . / --. ..- -.-- / .-- .. - .... / - .... . / ... .-- .. ... ... / .- -.-. -.-. . -. - / .- -. -.. / -.- -. --- .-- ... / .... --- .-- / - --- / --. . - / - .... . / .. -
Avid follower here! Are there any amateur geostationary birds covering the Americas?? Thanks
No, unfortunately not. Elon should be asked…
Genius
:-)
I have a sat skystar2 pci board. Can I use that? I was great for internet sniffing🤐
I do not know. Maybe you try?
i don't thin the Adam Pluto needs an internet connection, just network (lan only).
You are right. This is what I mean
Hello, Im new to receving satelite but it it possible to Recive QO-100 from Hanoi witch is barely within the range of the satelite ?
If it is in its footprint it should be possible. But maybe you need a bigger dish.
I was this close imgur.com/a/5ABXQmR How big of a dish do I need ?
I do not know. Maybe you look for ham operators in bewail and ask them about their experience. They are in a similar situation, just at a different place.
which sdr Hardware do you use? Great Video
For this project: an adalm Pluto
@@AndreasSpiess ok, HackRF is also possible?
You need two antenna connectors.
@@AndreasSpiess Why?
RX and TX are two different streams. (10GHz/2.4GHz)
Is the receiver station at goonhilly?
Yes
That's not far from me, I got to in one of the dishes a very long time ago.
why 802.11ad,ay aren't as popular as ac,ax?
Millimeter wave is a lot more expensive and shorter range. Even for VR, it seems like most gamers would rather deal with the cable than invest hundreds on a router/AP and even more for the wireless headset.
Maybe I have found a use for the Sky satellite dish the previous owners left me on the side of the house...
Good idea!
by the accent you live in a little rural area....where having internet is a big thing
We have fiber here...
@@AndreasSpiess subscribed
@@AndreasSpiess subscribed !
Which SDR software was that?
SDR console
Thank you as it didn't look like any I have seen before.
25MHz or 27MHz, those value crystals surely exist. Why not just replace the oscillator with one of them?
Yes, you can replace the crystals with better ones. You get quite stable ones. Then you have to do the same with the Pluto. Because I was always interested in GPSDOs I chose to try this way.
I think there is not much GaAs in 4 FETs of LNB but a usual remark if somebody ever happened to meet GaAs technology and for example likely found an old CRAY XMP CPUs and motherboard - don't break the epoxy housing - GaAs is said to be poisonous.
Good to know! These parts are too small to priint a skull on it...
@13m19s: Vertical / Horizontal polarized signals only remain precisely so when the satellite is directly South (or directly North if you're in the southern hemisphere) of your location; otherwise they'll be tilted. So the LNB (often the entire dish) needs to be skewed at an angle to match. This geometrical nonsense is another advantage of the circular polarization so often used on certain satellite bands (i.e. no skewing required). Cheers.
The uplink j is circular. The downlink should be no problem with an 80cm dish.
a comment!
:-)
MMMM Phase Lock Loop! Sexy!
And often needed...
1:43
It is pronounced "souhail" in arabic😅
Thank you!
The official languages of
Switzerland are French
And Italian and German
And Romansh
My ear recognizes
Your native language as Romanch?
Or you speak all four
At different times
Or All at the same time in English?
Aside:
In the USA they abandon plans
To install methane sniffers
Because of costs.
And this application of
Large Area network
Lora Wan Could be
Part of a solution.
I speak Swiss German at home. And I can also speak a little French.
Surely 1Khz x 2^10 != 1024Khz ??? (tc 14:27)
I do not find the mistake.
1024 KHz is 1.024 MHz which is what he measured
Did you look at the time code
No. I am on the mobile. Tomorrow.
your timecode is wrong, it overflows 😝