Islam's own Shabir Ali admitted on camera that the palimpsest was erased and rewritten. He said that they always knew about the different Qurans with different words and meanings and Muslims are repeating what they've been told. His admission is very similar to Sheikh Yasir Qadhi who said that the standard narrative has holes in it and doesn't answer pressing questions from western scholars who are very right about points they bring up.
@Defender of Truth I'm glad you brought up the subject of plagairism. The writers of the Quran copied several fictional stories written hundreds of years before Muhammad. "The Seven Sleepers" was written by Jacob of Serugh, a middle aged poet. This story that was copied into the Quran was written as a bedtime story for children. Also, The writer of the Quran copied "The Romance of Alexander" for the Quran’s 18th chapter. Also copied into the Quran were fairytales about Solomon, flying carpets and talking ants.😳😳
Brothers Dr. Jay and Al-Fadi - I was hoping you would delve/investigate the actual claims about the Birmingham manuscript being written during the time of the prophet. The fact is, the Arabic orthography found in these manuscripts do not coincide with the time-frame as that of the carbon dating of the parchments. In other words - the Arabic writing style on these parchments are a much later add-on (way after the death of Muhammad) to the older parchments. During the time of Muhammad - the Arabs did not have a well established writing style as found on these parchments. Instead, Arabs during Muhammad's time used a very simplistic style of writing taken from the Nabateans. I urge you to look into this to help debunk the claim 'Muslims have copies of the Quran written during Muhammad's time'. May the Lord bless you both
What’s your calibration tool to date manuscripts?🫠 Do you accept palaeography? Palaeography completely debunks all Jay Smith own made up claims. There are no honest Christians who call out the nonsense and lies of Jay Smith. Which scholar claims that the Birmingham manuscript is not a Quranic manuscript?🤥🫠
@@alonzoharris9049most of the Quran is just badly told stories that Muhammad heard at one point. That’s why it took him so long to tell his story. God didn’t take that long to write the 10 commandments.
@@alonzoharris9049 I've responded earlier but do not see my comment for some reason. I do not have the energy to re-write but in a nutshell: It is one thing to radio carbon the material and another to date based on writing (paleography). The latter trumps any radio-carboning of the materials. Some scholars - such as Muhammad al Msiyah and Qasim al-Samiraii - demonstrate that the parchment of the Birmingham manuscript is OLDER than the writing itself. Such scholars have estimated, based on the writing, the Birmingham manuscripts are actually 2-3rd Century AH (way after Muhammad). This is because the Arabs during Muhammad's time did not write in the same manner as we see in the Birmingham manuscripts (i.e. Hijazi script, red ink, spacing, dotting, etc). The Arabs wrote in a far more simplistic manner closer to the Nabateans. I'm guessing my initial comment was blocked because I supplied links and articles. I won't do it this time - you are free to research this. Bottom line - the Birmingham manuscripts are NOT as old as Muslims claim.
@@defenderoftruth3212 Did you mean to say that? "Unlike the Bible, it (the Quran) remains an empty book." I must agree with you. The Quran is about as empty as any book could be. It cannot be understood in any language. Allah must have been drunk on those rivers of wine when he passed like that down. Thank God Islam will be gone in 50 years.
Maybe this is what Shaykh Dr. Yasir Qadhi is seeing in these gaps. When he "misspoke" about using the words, "holes in the narrative". He now knows there are Christians and Jews in the narrative. It would be an academic breakthrough in his career to speak the truth, a type of road to Damascus journey for him and become a servant of God rather than a slave to a long dead seventh century warlord.
@@alonzoharris9049 My Gosh, Alonzo, stop playing ignorance. You've been around for a long time & seem all the videos so you know the massive holes in the Holey Quran. Don't expect anyone to waste their time explaining them to you.
When everyone is infected with the same brain-rotting madness, no-one is going to take exception to it. That this psychosis should still be defended by so-called ‘scholars’ and still causing misery around the world after 1400 years is a sad reflection on humanity. Or else, it is proof positive of the activity of a malign spirit.
@@danielganesh55no it’s because humanity fears the the unknown and Islam is a great system to fight fear of the unknown as it makes one ignorant and doesn’t allow one to think
@@Topagendadolla i live in muslim country from birth. I know islam like the back of my hand. The scriptures, history, and culture and its driving force in its ummah. It is certainly demonic. That is primary. Psychology, politics etc are just the secondary fruits.
Not really. They forget to mention the most important point - that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable. Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum. Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
@@theastronomer5800 Thank you for your comment. Much appreciated. So, by post-Uthmanic, are we talking about last quarter of the 7th century or early 8th century? How much later in time?
To make the presentation even more powerful, why don't you put up copies the Greek original account De situ terrae sanctae, written between 518 and 531, records the existence of a church dedicated to the sleepers in Ephesus and earliest Syriac manuscript copy MS Saint-Petersburg No. 4, which dates to the fifth century, ALONG SIDE the Birmingham folios? Another sixth-century version, in a Syrian manuscript in the British Museum (Cat. Syr. Mss, p. 1090), gives eight sleepers.
John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go My way, and you shall seek Me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come. :22 Then said the Jews, will He kill Himself? Because He says, whither I go, you cannot come. :23 And He said unto them, you are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. :24 I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sins.
@@defenderoftruth3212 You must lie awake nights over muhammad’s blatant plagiarism of the holy Bible, both the Torah/Old Testament & New Testament, and also over his plagiarism of ancient Syriac scrolls.
@Defender of Truth Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.
Soon Alonzo Harris, General JG, Aaron H and Rocky Balboa will come and preach their three gods agenda.... However, the more they do that, the more my faith in The LORD JESUS CHRIST is confirmed and increased...
Ha ha, I agree. It's always fun to find him in these comments sections. He probably has ten plus accounts and you learn to spot his "style" pretty easy.
@@defenderoftruth3212 You say Jesus is not known in Israel today, BUT you claim He is your Prophet. Now the Question is: Unto which people did Jesus was sent to as a prophet? Isnt that double standard? You also say that Jesus is Born of Virgin Mary as a Word of ALLAH through his Spirit. You claim that Jesus is HOLY, and a mighty messenger, and BORN through the Power of The Holy Spirit, yet, YOU DENY that GOD cannot have a SON. Isnt that double Standard? You deny that Jesus is not known in Israel, but proclaim that he is a prophet sent to the Jews. You say that Jesus is born of a virgin as a WORD from Allah, but DENY that HE is THE SON OF GOD... Brother, the Islamic LOGIC is mind blowing...
Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable. If "Dr" Jay Smith was being honest he would know/mentions this... Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum. Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
Didn't Uthman burn away the seven modes/systems and now there's just the 7 (or 10) recitations? It's always the wrong move to burn books 📚. Anybody have surviving modes/systems tucked away?
That's true, Muslims don't read or study they mostly depends on common men as in leaders who continue telling them lies upon lies just to favor there many wives and hold up mansions...praise be to Jesus
Birmingham folly: 33 out of 6236 verses (only 3 chapters: 33 out of 343 verses) Birmingham folly is not a full qur'an. 1. Ch 18: 17-31 (The 7 Sleepers of Ephesus [512 AD], written by Syrian Bishop Jacob of Sarug) 2. Ch 19:91-98 (Proto-Evangelium of James [145AD] and The Pseudo Gospel of Matthew [600AD]) 3. Ch 20:1-40 (The story of Moses [1400BC])
Stephen Shoemaker has pointed out that early Qur'anic manuscripts that are Carbon dated in more than one centre tend to produce very different ranges of dates. This indicates that there seems to be a problem with Middle Eastern manuscripts and Carbon dating. Consequently, dating of those manuscripts is not to be accepted without palaeographic analysis too.
The NT GOSPELS - Evidence of Author's & Dates Written ▪︎ Matthew - A tax collector who became Jesus' apostle and wrote about the life of Jesus as the Messiah for the Jewish community c. 65 AD. ▪︎ Mark - A Jew, and a companion of Peter and Paul, who wrote for both Jews and Gentiles about Christ's death and resurrection c. 65 AD. ▪︎ Luke - A Gentile doctor, and a companion of Peter and Paul who wrote for the Gentiles about Christ the saviour for humankind. c. 60 AD ▪︎ Luke - also wrote the Acts of the Apostles c. 65 AD. ▪︎ John - The 'beloved' apostle of Jesus, wrote in his later years about the Word who took on Flesh (John 1:1,14) c. 80-90 AD. ▪︎ John - also wrote 3 Letters and The Book of Revelations c. 80-90 AD. ▪︎ James - Jesus' cousin, wrote 1 letter c. 35 AD. ▪︎ Paul - wrote 13 letters c.49 - 65 AD. ▪︎ Jude - wrote 1 letter c. 65 AD. ▪︎ Peter - wrote 2 letters c. 67 AD. ▪︎ The author of The Letter to Hebrews is unknown c. 65 AD. (Wikipedia). ▪︎ Jesus Christ's' ministry occurred between 27-30 A.D. ▪︎ Christianity began after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ when thousands of Jews became followers of 'The Way' (Jesus). ▪︎ The New Testament scholar, F.F. Bruce, gives strong historical evidence that the New Testament was completed by A.D. 100. ▪︎ Most writings of the New Testament were completed twenty to forty years before 100 AD. (Wikipedia). ▪︎ The apostles and their companions wrote the New Testament from their first-hand experiences with Jesus. New Testament integrity is supported by historians, biblical and textual scholars, along with thousands of early codices, manuscripts and the Dead Sea Scrolls, proving the validity and preservation of the Gospels written between c. 35-90 A.D (Eusebius, Church History 111. 39 .15; Irenaeus Against Heresies, 111.1) INTERNAL Evidence: ▪︎ The internal evidence supports these early dates for several reasons. The first three Gospels prophesied the fall of the Jerusalem Temple which occurred in A.D. 70. However, the fulfillment is not mentioned. It is strange that these three Gospels predict this major event but do not record it happening. Why do they not mention such an important prophetic milestone? The most plausible explanation is that it had not yet occurred at the time Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written. ▪︎ In the book of Acts, the Temple plays a central role in the nation of Israel. Luke writes as if the Temple is an important part of Jewish life. He also ends Acts on a strange note: Paul living under house arrest. It is strange that Luke does not record the death of his two chief characters, Peter and Paul. The most plausible reason for this is that Luke finished writing Acts before Peter and Paul's martyrdom in A.D. 64. A significant point to highlight is that the Gospel of Luke precedes Acts, further supporting the traditional dating of c. A.D. 60. Most scholars agree Mark precedes Luke, making Mark's Gospel even earlier. ▪︎ Finally, the majority of New Testament scholars believe that Paul's epistles are written from A.D. 48-60. Paul's outline of the life of Jesus matches that of the Gospels. 1 Corinthians is one of the least disputed books regarding its dating and Pauline authorship. In 1Corinthians chapter 15, Paul summarizes the gospel and reinforces the premise that this is the same gospel preached by the apostles. Paul quotes from Luke's Gospel in 1 Timothy 5:18, showing us that Luke's Gospel was indeed completed in Paul's lifetime. This would move the time of the completion of Luke's Gospel along with Mark and Matthew. This Internal Evidence presents a strong case for the early dating of the Gospels. EXTERNAL Evidence - Gospel Dates: ▪︎ Were the Gospels written by eyewitnesses of the events, or were they not recorded until centuries later? As with the internal evidence, the external evidence also supports a first century date. ▪︎ Fortunately, New Testament scholars have an enormous amount of ancient manuscript evidence. The documentary evidence for the New Testament far surpasses any other work of its time, with over 5000 manuscripts, and many are dated within a few years of their authors' lives. KEY documents: ▪︎ Chester Beatty Papyri contains most of the N.T. writings, and is dated around A.D. 250. ▪︎ The Bodmer Papyri contains most of John, and dates to A.D. 200. ▪︎ Rylands Papyri that was found in Egypt and contains large fragments of John, and dates to A.D. 130. From this fragment we can conclude that John was completed well before A.D. 130 because, not only did the gospel have to be written, it had to be hand copied and make its way down from Greece to Egypt. The majority of scholars agree that John is the last gospel written, so we can affirm its first century date along with the other three with greater assurance. EARLY New Testament Papyrus Manuscripts: ▪︎ Dead Sea Scrolls, the Full Text of Isaiah 53 and a portion of every book, c. 250 BC. ▪︎ Old Testament Greek Septuagint c. 200 BC. ▪︎ P52 (John Rylands Fragment) - John 18:31-33; 37-38 c. 96 AD ▪︎ P90 (Oxyrhynchus) - John 18:36; 19:7 c. 96 AD ▪︎ P104 (Oxyrhynchus) - Matthew 21:34-37, 43, 45 c. 60-65 AD ▪︎ P46 (Chester Beatty Papyrus) - Romans 5:17-6; 5-14; 8:15-25; 27-35; 10:1-11, 22, 24-33, 35; 16:1-23; 25-27. And Hebrews; 1 & 2; Corinthians; Ephesians; Galatians; Philippians; Colossians; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 9-10; 2:1-3; 5:5-9, 23-28 c. 50’s-70’s AD ▪︎ P98 (IFAO) - Revelation 1:13; 2:1 c. 90 AD ▪︎ P66 (Bodmer Papyrus) - John 1:1-6,11; 6:35; 14:26; fragment of 14:29; 21:9 c. 70’s AD ▪︎ P67 Matthew 3:9, 15; 5:20-22; 25-28 c. 60-65 AD ▪︎ Evidence also comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls Cave 7. Jose Callahan discovered a large fragment of the Gospel of Mark and dated it to have been written in A.D. 50. Also large fragments of Acts and other epistles and dated them to have been written slightly after A.D. 50.4 Another line of evidence is the writings of the church fathers. ▪︎ CLEMENT of Rome sent a letter to the Corinthian church in A.D. 95. in which he quoted from the Gospels and other portions of the N.T. ▪︎ IGNATIUS, Bishop of Antioch, wrote a letter before his martyrdom in Rome in A.D. 115, quoting all the Gospels and other N.T. letters. ▪︎ POLYCARP wrote to the Philippians in A.D. 120 and quoted from the Gospels and N.T. letters. ▪︎ JUSTIN MARTYR, A.D. 150 quotes John 3. Church fathers of the early second century were familiar with the apostle's writings and quoted them as inspired Scripture. ▪︎ Early dating is important for two reasons. The closer a historical record is to the date of the event, the more likely the record is accurate. Early dating allows for eyewitnesses to still be alive when the Gospels were circulating to attest to their accuracy. The apostles often appeal to the witness of the hostile crowd, pointing to their knowledge of the facts as well (Acts 2:22, 26:26). Also, the time is too short for legends to develop. Historians agree it takes about two generations, or eighty years, for legendary accounts to establish themselves. From the evidence, we can conclude the Gospels were indeed written by the authors they are attributed to. THE First Fully Bound Bible Books/Codices ▪︎ Codex Vaticanus: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 280 - 330 AD ▪︎ Codex Siniaticus: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 300 - 350 AD ▪︎ Codex Alexandrius: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 350 - 400 AD ▪︎ Codex Vulgate: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 380 - 400 AD JESUS and the Jews were multilingual ▪︎ "Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: 'JESUS Of NAZARETH, THE KING Of THE JEWS'. Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek" (John 19:19-20) ▪︎ The Gospels were written in Koine Greek being the World's language in the 1st century The Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek (Septuagint) c.200 BC for the many Greek speaking Jews It is well known that first-century Jerusalem was inhabited by Greek speaking Jews who were at least bilingual. And Jesus most likely was trilingual apart from the ability to read minds. So the original Gospels were written in Koine Greek and sent throughout the World.. ▪︎ Jewish culture was heavily influenced by Hellenistic culture, and Koine Greek was used not only for international communication but also as the first language of many Jews. This development was furthered by the fact that the largest Jewish community in the world lived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. (Wikipedia) GOD Protects His Sacred Words: ▪︎ "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!" (Galatians 1:8-9). ▪︎ Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matt 24:35). ▪︎ God protects His Word the Gospels and warns of antichrists.. ▪︎ Christ's Good News of Salvation, His Birth, Crucifixion and Resurrection hasn't changed for 2000 years. ▪︎ The Gospels are evidenced by internal and external historical, archeological & literary facts. ▪︎ The Gospels are reliable and transparent with any variations transparently referenced in the footnotes. ▪︎ The Gospels have 1000 times more manuscripts than the most documented ancient literature by Greco-Roman historian, Suetonius. ▪︎ The Bible is the most comprehensive and reliable source about 1st century Jerusalem history and used by archaeologists for supporting research and evidence today.. Hallelujah..
A few people in the Gospels have been menitoned as "the son of Alphaeus". There is also Mary "the wife of Alphaeus". The original (or at least the first) manuscript we have of the Christian Gospels - Codex Sinaiticus - lacks "son of"/"wife of". The surname could be (and should be) read as "the Alphaeus" = "the Aleppo-ite/Halabite. So we have: James the Aleppo-ite, Matthew the Aleppo-ite, and Mary (Jesus' mother) the Aleppo-ite. These three would have settled in Aleppo after 70 CE. So Matthew's gospel was written in Aleppo perhaps 75CE-80CE. When St Jerome wanted to copy the Gospel of Matthew for the Christian New Testament in 390 CE, he went to see the Nazarenes at Aleppo, as they held the original Gospel of Matthew. Quran (of the Nazarenes) calls this Gospel 'the Injeel'.
On Answering Islam I found an old article by Jay Smith about this manuscript. Unfortunately it is not possible to insert the link. In that article he did not write that in the verses of Surah 19 there is a part of the proto-gospel of James. He wrote correctly: [19:91-98] Statements that Allah does not take to himself a son [91-94] all people are slaves with Him having full power over their Judgment [95-96] believe and do deeds of righteousness will result in His love for them [97-98] The Qur’an is easy in the prophet’s own tongue to warn his people. Why does Mr. Smith now invent something that is not in the text? Why does he not remain at the truth? Does he really think to convince a Muslim in that way? Truth will prevail! I am disappointed about this argumentation. It makes it more difficult to convince Muslims. They simply have to check the verses of the quran and will see that they were lied.
Jay smith is a habitual liar and will chop and change whatever he fancy to malign Islam. What is your problem with Muslims? THE PROBLEM is that you think that the Quran copied from previous scriptures but fail to realize that the Quran came TO CORRECT all the corruption made by men, so obviously similar Stories are shared. THE DEEPER PROBLEM is that you think that Mohammad (saw) made-up a New religion. ISLAM and copied from previous scriptures.
. The Birmingham manuscript’s parchment is the only thing that has been carbon dated. Every single one of the above mentioned articles has noted that, indeed, there is no actual evidence to suggest the text itself predates the Prophet’s lifetime. According to the logic being used by the “predating” line of thinking, If I found a scrap of paper that existed prior to my birth and wrote something on it, it means that, actually, what I had written magically predates my birth. Again: all we know is that the parchment itself came from an animal that lived before the Prophet’s birth. What does this mean in terms of “rewriting the history of Islam?” Absolutely zilch. As for the articles on the subject of dating, here is a sampling of quotes: Small cautioned that the carbon dating was only done on the parchment in the fragments, and not the actual ink… Keith Small, of Oxford’s Bodleian Library, cautioned that carbon dating was done only on the Koran’s parchment and not its ink, but he said the dates were probably accurate. The pages were carbon-dated by experts at the University of Oxford, a process which showed the Islamic holy book manuscript could be the oldest Quran in the world. With that said, the carbon dating was only done on the parchment in the fragments, and not the actual ink. However, if the date does apply to the parchment and the ink, then the Koran-or at least parts of it-actually predates Mohammad. The most interesting bit is actually in the last quote. “If the date does apply to the parchment and the ink.” Well, fine. But since that is total speculation, it doesn’t belong in a news piece, let alone coming from the mouth of a librarian. In the meantime, every single article leads with a completely misleading title. No manuscripts or studies or science suggest that the Qurʾān predates the Prophet Muḥammad. At best, every headline should have been a variation of “Birmingham manuscript suggests that an animal lived before the lifetime of Muḥammad.” But then, I suppose that’s not very interesting news. 2. The Qurʾān contains names and events that could not predate the Prophet’s birth. For instance, Muḥammad’s name is mentioned four times in the text of the Qurʾān. One of his relatives, Abū Lahab, is mentioned by name, and the sūra (chapter) in which he is referenced even includes a pun about it. An entire sūra deals with the battle by the Muslims to conquer Mecca. Another sūra concerns the birth of one of the Prophet’s daughters. Another mentions him hiding in a cave to escape his Meccan pursuers when migrating to Medina. These are just a handful of examples. Any one of them, let alone all of them together, especially taken in conjunction with the fact that only the parchment of the manuscript potentially predates the Prophet’s birth, would lead any reasonable individual to conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Qurʾān simply could not exist except after the beginning of Muḥammad’s prophetic mission. Here’s a great example. “Ṭaha” is one of the endearing names used by God for the Prophet Muḥammad. In fact, there is an entire sūra known by this name. And guess what? It is included among the Birmingham fragments:
Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable, they forget to mention this... Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum. Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
I only have one problem with what was said- there is no Qur'an from Muhammad's time. So how do we know the the Birmingham manuscript and Qur'an potentially overlapped in time?
They don't. Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable, Dr. Smith should know this - sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum. Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
@@theastronomer5800 Show me one, just one Uthmanic text. There isn't one, so how can there be an "Uthmanic text type"? And Dr. Jay Smith HAS mentioned many times that carbon dating of the ink is impossible and carbon dating is unreliable at best.
@@lindaclark6148 Hey Linda. Not my words... From what I understand mss experts study Uthmanic text-types. A text-type does not mean that it is a mss from the period of Uthman. From Putten's "The Grace of God” as evidence for a written Uthmanic archetype: the importance of shared orthographic idiosyncrasies" Cambridge, 2019: "Sadeghi defines the Uthmanic text type as agreeing with the text of the 1924 Cairo Edition of the Quran, a tradition that “reportedly began with the codices ʿUthmān disseminated as the ancestors of all the manuscripts in the textual tradition”. These codices all agree on: 1. the order of the surahs; 2. the order of the verses within each surah; and 3. the content of these verses in terms of individual words (Sadeghi and Bergmann Reference Sadeghi and Bergmann 2010: 347). The vast majority of known Quranic manuscripts (all but the Sanaa palimpsest, in fact) ARE OF THE UTHMANIC TEXT TYPE (my emphasis), and only minor variations are present in this text type." You can easily email Dr. van Putten for clarification on this - I'm pretty sure he know better than you or me what this exactly means and why it's called that, I do trust his wealth of knowledge and expertise on this topic and have listened to several excellent talks by him. Hope this helps. Cheers!
@@shahrahman4368 Yeshua ha’Mashiach is not a created being but the eternally existent second person of the triune Godhead who came to earth in the mortal body of His own creation. He lived the perfect/sinless life no fallen mortal could ever live, keeping perfectly every jot and tittle of the Mosaic/Judaic Law. He alone could atone for the sins of fallen man - being fully human yet fully God - and He gave up His life on the cross or no mortal could have taken it from Him. Yeshua stepped out of that body triumphant over sin and death for all wise enough to accept His free gift. Then He proved He is exactly who He says He is - Yehovah God - by reanimating that lifeless body after three days, exactly as He said He would.
Are the verses mentioned correct? Surah 19:91-98 (Arberry): 91 that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son; 92 and it behoves not the All-merciful to take a son. 93 None is there in the heavens and earth but he comes to the All-merciful as a servant; 94 He has indeed counted them, and He has numbered them exactly. 95 Every one of them shall come to Him upon the Day of Resurrection, all alone. 96 Surely those who believe and do deeds of righteousness -- unto them the All-merciful shall assign love. 97 Now We have made it easy by thy tongue that thou mayest bear good tidings thereby to the godfearing, and warn a people stubborn. 98 And how many a generation We destroyed before them! Dost thou perceive so much as one of them, or hear of them a whisper? I know the proto-gospel of James. These verses are not there. I am not a muslim and I would like to use your arguments. But before I say something I check the argument. This argument I cannot and will not use. I have to be aware that the muslim I want to convince knows the quran better than I do.
Zakir Naik thought he'd do some more grifting during this Ramadan, this time in Oman. The Indian embassy over there have requested that Oman deport him to India for trial.
The Quran was conveyed via oral transmission, not written. Even today hundreds from across the world learn the Quran from memory. That's how its been presevered. This manuscript....what does it actually say? Verses from the Quran or Bible? They are verses from the Quran that match today. They are not Bible verses. Approx one third of the Quran contains stories of history including Christianity and Children of Israel times. It mentions the Torah and Ingel (Bible) by name. So whats your point? It copied the Bible....that makes no sense. It in fact confirms that Jesus (Esa) Moses (Musa) and others were believers of the Almighty and that their original message was corrupted and the Quran has come to confirm their real truthful message and of all the Messengers.
Can someone PLEASE Explain that if 'Islam' was created some decades, even hundreds of years AFTER 642 AD Why there are references to the Mosques, Islam etc. BEFORE 632 AD!!!???
What references are those? The Birmingham is dated to late-7th century by basically all mss experts based on paleography. As for the word mosque/masjid, the root word "sajada" (سَجَدَ) which the word "masjid" is derived from, is mentioned in pre-Islamic Arabic poetry in reference to prostration or bowing down in worship.
"Mosques, Islam etc. BEFORE 632 AD" Where? Even during the arab conquests across north africa none of the inhabitants recorded any mention of muslims, quran, or a prophet called muhammed.
Did I just hear Dr. Jay say that Muslims said that this is "this is the Qur'an that Muhammad [peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him] *wrote* "? Obviously no knowledgeable Muslim says that. Ask the right people, Dr. Jay. I do not even know why people take Dr. Jay to be a serious person.
Even the modern Qur'an is a clearly concocted mess. The Islamic scholar Ali Dashti (his Bk "23 Years") provides detailed lists of grammatical errors and syntactical impossibilities. He writes: _”The Qur’an includes incomplete sentences…there are foreign terms, expressions, and words that are unknown in Arabic but used anyway, and applied in ways that are different from their usual meanings. In the Qur’an, grammatical rules are ignored, regardless of whether it concerns the feminine or masculine gender, verb, noun, adjective, or adverbs. In addition, there are ill𝜊gical and grammatically inc𝜊rrect pronouns which in various places do not show any relation to each other.”_ God would not dictate thusly.
9:49 I am sorry??? 😂😂 so you say translate from Aramaic to Greek and then to English was a good way to translate the gospels atleast Arabic and Aramaic are both Semitic languages
I watched this video, then took a quick look at Wikipedia on the topic. I'm not a scholar and may be wrong, but it seems to me that the interpretation of Mr. Jay Smith is biased and omits some arguments in favor of the authenticity of the manuscript. As a Christian my god is the Truth and I can never use false arguments to help my Muslim friends to leave Islam.
The stuff about Jesus being just a prophet sounds influenced by the Ebionite Gospel, maybe Arabs had a version of it. The Quran doesn't have all the features of Ebionism but a few, others are contrary to it, The Ebionites didn't accept the the idea that Mary was "untouched" like the Quran says, for instance. The authors obviously took bits and pieces from a variety of sources. I think the idea of the Quran being delivered by an angel came from the Book of Elchasai. It encouraged circumcision, which may be why it's in Islam.
So you think that Mohammad (saw) made-up a New religion. ISLAM and copied from previous scriptures?😅🤣😂 THAT'S WHAT THE EVIL MISSIONARIES want you to believe. ISLAM STARTED WITH CREATION and with ALL the Prophets, from Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Thousands of Prophets...AND MOHAMMAD (saw) COMPLETED THE RELIGION. ALL THE PROPHETS had the same religion with the same message of Pure Monotheism and ALL SUBMITTED THEIR WILL TO THE CREATOR alone and Directly (meaning of Islam), making them all Muslim by definition. This every Muslim child knows and even Jews who are supposed to be enemies of Islam lectures this at Israeli Universities. th-cam.com/video/tw2UbF01BSw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/GJLtu9qpuC4/w-d-xo.html
@@defenderoftruth3212 It's much like evolution of Judaism but in reverse. They started out with numerous gods and gradually reduced it to one. BTW, I mentioned the Book of Elchasai. The "prophet Mani" was a member of Elchasaites since childhood and later started his own religion. If you read about him you'll see that Muhammad was modeled on him. He called himself the Seal of the Prophets and the Paraclete long before Muhammad was born, or made up, whichever it is. His religion, Manichaeism, had a book revealed by an angel, 7 daily prayers, ablutions and a month every year in which they only ate one meal a day. Muhammad reduced the prayers to 5, called the month of fasting Ramadan and removed the vegetarianism, vow of poverty and sexual abstinence. He made it a version that was less demanding in self denial and was accepting of wealth, so it appealed to greedy people who liked eating meat and being sex maniacs, which made it more popular so Islam gradually replaced Manichaeism. That pretty much describes Muslims, don't you think? Greedy meat eating sex maniacs.
Another sect with similar beliefs were called the Nazarenes. They were around a lot longer than the Ebionites so more likely to have influence the Arabs. It's surprising how many different sects there were in the early centuries AD, forming religions was very popular in those days and Muhammad was just one more of that type of person, self proclaimed prophets trying to form their own religion as a variation on prior ones. People didn't have much else to do I guess, there wasn't much for entertainment in those days.
@@RolanRoyce ''People didn't have much else to do I guess, there wasn't much for entertainment in those days.''😅🤣😂WHAT A IDIOTIC THING TO SAY😅🤣😂 EDUCATE YOURSELF If Muhammad (saw) was just one more of that type of person, self proclaimed prophet trying to form his own religion as a variation on prior ones, then he had to be A GENIUS, as Islam is 2 Billion and growing with FAITHFUL MUSLIMS.... Where are the ''Nazarenes, the Edionites and others''...all extinct😅 I gave you 2 UNBIASED videos from a Jewish Professor who lectures to academics at Israeli Universities, explaining just what you complain about😀 IS HE WRONG? th-cam.com/video/tw2UbF01BSw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/GJLtu9qpuC4/w-d-xo.html
لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله I had a vision in which I’ve heard 1500 when I woke up the spirits guided me to open google and I’ve found 1 the Manuscript of Quran in Birmingham museum which is 1500 years old and second the life span of Muslim Ummah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH is 1500 years. I don’t have the Hadith saved with me as I am left with iPhone 5s at the moment. Vision dated 11 Jan 2023 *+(🔯✝️☪️
Since you mentioned reference to Jesus as God in the Bible, how do you explain the following self-explanatory verses about who God is? 1 Corinthians 15: 26-28 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Simple, God [Father] gave everything, so Christ [Jesus] is giving back everything to the Father that he might have the same as the Father has READ Jn 17 the whole chapter to gain an understanding.
I appreciate your question, at least you've tried to do some critical thinking. However, that's still below the Christian simple and standard understanding of Christ being God. When a Christian says Jesus is God, he/she first unders that God is Spirit. Now, God deciding to come to humanity and dwell amongst humanity and doing something significant like exemplify godly life and atone for sin Himself because nothing was pure enough to worth atoning for man's sin but for match, He took on human form/flesh; that human form or flesh is who you now know as Jesus Christ. When we say Jesus is God we mean the fullness of God dwelled in him. Now since you cited Apostle Paul, let me tell you somethings he said in Colossians 2:9, he said, 'Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.' He said again in Philippians 2:5-8 that, 'Have the same attitude among yourselves that was also in the Messiah Jesus: In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping. Instead, poured out in emptiness, a servant's form did he possess, a mortal man becoming. In human form he chose to be, and lived in all humility, death on a cross obeying.' John the baptist also said in John 3:31-36 that, 'The one (Jesus) who comes from above is superior to everything. The one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is superior to everything. He testifies about what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. The person who has accepted his testimony has acknowledged that God is truthful. The one whom God sent (Jesus) speaks the words of God, because God does not give the Spirit in limited measure to him. The Father loves the Son and has put everything in his hands. The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.' As Christians, our believe is that Jesus Christ has become the face or identity of God we know, and this believe is not misplaced because He himself said in John 14:9 that, "The person who has seen me (Jesus) has seen the Father. So how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? There are many more reasons and proofs we can give to validate our believe that Christ is God. If this simple explanation doesn't satisfy you, I'm willing to give you more. Stay blessed. ❤
@@dudeduderinoduderino9689 Where in the Bible is Christ referred to as the Almighty God? Why is Christ urging us to worship the Father, as the Father seeks such who worship Him in truth and spirit? (John 4: 23-24) Where in the Bible is the Holy Spirit referred to as one of three persons? What does it mean that the Father will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him? (Luke 11: 13) There are many more questions that can be asked based on the Bible supporting Unitarian view that the Father alone is the Almighty God. However, that is enough for now. Could you answer these questions?
@@FoJ-REAPP I already knew that Christ is perfect Son of God, who emulates his Father, the Almighty God, and urges us to strive to do the same, which is the meaning of following Christ and worshipping his Father, the Almighty God. I am disputing unbiblical doctrines, one of which is the belief that God consists of three co-equal co-eternal persons.
@@tombuddy100 ok, now that you believe the Christ is the perfect son of God by virtue of his perfect nature inherited in bodily form of the Spirit God, you equally must agree that when Christ walked here on earth, it was God walking here on earth. If that is the case, then it means that, the Spirit God manifested or incarnated Himself into man whiles still remaining a separate Spirit God. That manifested God, Jesus Christ, also left the earth alive to where the Spirit God is. Aside these two identifies we have here, Jesus himself referred to another as the Helper who the father and himself will send back to the world to empower his people. Mind you, he didn't say a spirit but The Spirit (specific). Who could this Spirit also be? Can you help me understand what I've just said? There's a way settle this I must say, its either Christ did not have the perfect nature of God here on earth, and by that he was not perfect as the Father who alone is known to be perfect. It's either Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead and ascended in bodily form. It's either there's not Spirit here on earth now ministering to God's people, in the name of The HolySpirit. But if all the above are true, then God the Spirit, reflected, manifested, incarnated himself in a body called Jesus Christ, making that body equally God, and later dwells on earth again as Spirit whiles still remaining as God the Father, The Spirit.
7:13...☪📖✨Ok...first of all, as to 𝐒𝔲𝔯𝔞 𝕸𝖆𝖗𝒚𝖆𝖒, the chapter certainly contains an abundance of earlier Christian traditions, (although in altered form) from several Apocryphal Infancy Gospels, a well as the New Testament ... ..HOWEVER that is not the case with its last Ayahs 19:91-98 {Birmingham folio)...which in fact have nothing to do with Mary, or Christian legend...but are clearly addressing Muslims, in the Surah's summation... Word to the wise...Dr. Jay...Due, abandon this silly, anti-historical, "Muhammad was made-up" de-constructionist disaster..while you still can...it is severely damaging your credibility...it is nothing but a cynica,l postmodern, borrow, from atheists.. It has become your own; "Qir'ats: a hole in your narrative".. Just Face up to it...Fact up to it.. ✝Jesus really was .. I Am and ☪Muhammad (pbuh) ...just really was
Oh Jay... Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is NOT reliable. Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum. Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
@@Nahin-iy4cy That is what your ulemma tells you. Coran is examined scientifically since several years and findings are quite interesting. CIRA International provides good information. I recommend the serie : 'creating the q.ran'.
Why having similar stories is an issue? If we consider we have the same God, Allah, or Yahweh. We don’t change manuscripts as what happened to the old and New Testament. And we did not trust a Paul (Saul) who participated in killing early Christian’s. So before talking about minor concerns of Islam, check the blocks in Christianity.
The latter verse of surah 19 state why the quran was revealed and the consequences of attributing Allah the role of a father. 11 minutes of complete waffle.
Dear Christians my brothers in Christ read the Letter of Judas it prophesied Islam and the Muslims the Holy Spirit will give you strength to fight those heresies
The Quran has many stories of the previous religious and their prophets so you know that the religious of God is one God and God is the creator of Adam. So read the last revelation for your salvation. Jews have corrupted the bible, Jesus is messiah and prophet of God he is not son of God for God has no son He one and no helper on his kingdom.
1. Yes, the Quran has many *pieces* of Biblical stories, and most of those are so incomplete and/or inaccurate and/or wholly deviant from the original stories. 2. The Quran leaves out so much of the relevant information that it is impossible to know what it is referencing *without going to the Bible* -- e.g., who is Israel? Why does the Q get Abraham's father's name so discombobulated and corrupted? Which Mary is Maryam? Why the name E'isa and not the conventional Arabic name Yesu'a? 2.a. How can you believe that the Bible was somehow corrupted when the Quran says it is God's Word and is therefore protected by him? 3. How could the Jews have corrupted their book but then Muhammad *swore an oath upon it?* 4. When Muhammad swore that oath upon the Torah, why? He was instructed by his god to ask the people *before* about their Scripture (the Book revealed BEFORE); that would *clearly mean* the Christians and the Injeel, NOT the Jews and the Torah! Also, why in Al Lah's name would he even stupidly ask the Jews about Jesus?? DOH! 5. Al Lah says it is impossible for him to have a son (or a daughter) since he has no girlfriend (yes, he literally used the word for girlfriend or female "companion"). What is impossible for Almighty God? Obviously, Al Lah is not omnipotent. According to your scriptures, he can do nothing but whine, moan, and complain. 6. Why does Al Lah instruct YOU to worship none but Al Lah and the Messiah Son of Maryam? Why do you refuse to comply with this order from your god? So read the LAST revelation for YOUR eternal salvation (that would be the Bible, friend). The Quran admits it cannot be from God as it has *numerous errors* of science, history, revelation, and general knowledge, and even spelling & grammar! Come back to Christ, for He loves you and wants to save your eternal soul. Only Jesus guarantees this -- Al Lah never does, and both his words and Muhammad's confirm this. Come back to Christ. He is Lord. ☦
Do False Prophets teach Pure Monotheism? The Believe in One God - Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allāh and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants [al-Asbāṭ]1 and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Quran 2:136
@@aaabrams1889 If only you'd read the Bible (but there is no chance you have or will!!) you would have read what God's Word said: “So you believe that there is one God? That’s fine. So do all the devils in hell and shudder in terror!” (James 2) Let me explain what that means just in case you don't understand: Even Satan and his demons KNOW there is only one God so the fact that a Muslim believes there is only one God, it does not help him have eternal life. Understand! The fact that your false prophet (supposedly) taught monotheism is irrelevant.
@@lesliewilliam3777 What can't you understand from the verse in the Quran 2:136 that CLEARLY says; Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allāh and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants [al-Asbāṭ]1 and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Jesus said; O Israel our Lord is ONE LORD making you WORSE than the Devils as you believe God is triune😅
@@aaabrams1889 Who cares what a book says which was written 600 years after Jesus? I mean, who cares? You're just another ignorant, uneducated Muslim who has never read the Bible and stupidly wants to irrationally claim that the Qur'an supersedes the Bible, a book he's never read. As a teacher I would find such arrogance worthy of giving you an F.
The Nazarenes were an early Jewish Christian sect in first-century Judaism. The Gospel of the Nazarenes, is believed by some to be the Gospel described by many commentators as the original teachings of the Nazarene called Christ. Estimated Range of Dating 100-160 A.D. And it totally goes against the crucifixion. The evil church got rid of many early Gospels such as this one. Gospel of Nazarenes, Lection 33, verses 1-2. By The Shedding Of Blood Of Others Is No Remission Of Sins. 1. Jesus was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and one of them said unto him: Master, it is said by the priests that without shedding of blood there is no remission. Can then the blood offering of the law take away sin? 2. And Iesus answered: No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
A few people in the Gospels have been menitoned as "the son of Alphaeus". There is also Mary "the wife of Alphaeus". The original (or at least the first) manuscript we have - Codex Sinaiticus lacks "son of"/"wife of". The surname could be (and should be) read as "the Alphaeus" = "the Aleppo-ite/Halabite. So we have: James the Aleppo-ite, Matthew the Aleppo-ite, and Mary (Jesus' mother) the Aleppo-ite. These three would have settled in Aleppo after 70 CE. So Matthew's gospel was written in Aleppo perhaps 75CE-80CE. When St Jerome wanted to copy the Gospel of Matthew for the Christian New Testament in 390 CE, he went to see the Nazarenes at Aleppo, as they held the original Gospel of Matthew. Quran (of the Nazarenes) calls this Gospel 'the Injeel'. Umar the Nazarene took his oath at Jerusalem on the Torah. There was no Quran as a tome during Umar's time. That possibly came into being after 750 CE.
They are many Christians who fast who pray but Muslims will not say that ,To make themselves feel better . And that is Sin do you know that ? Point 👉 finger on others is Sin . The are many Muslims who are not following but Christians don't point 👉 .My brothers not matter what religion we are. One God and only one created all of us . So if you like or not we are still brothers and we should respect that. Fasting and praying is the only way for forgiveness and is stated in Babile in Koran it is same . Born Christian or Muslim don't make you automatically believer unless you are practicing . So pray pray cry to God for mercy on us.and stop hating one another.!!! God bless you all and Jesus said My peace with you . Amen
Imagine pretending to find something in doing so trying to makes lies true ? I mean what wouldn't they do or what ain't they capable of ha? Plus I wonder what tea they used to stain them to make them look old ha? Enough said 🙏🏻
Imagine pretending to find something in doing so trying to makes lies true ? I mean what wouldn't they do or what ain't they capable of ha? Seriously plus I'm positive not only did I read it but saw news reporting of it with reporters outside the restaurant where these piece's of paper were supposedly found behind plasterboard whilst refurbishing a Indian restaurant toilet ishhhroom ok and I'm positive of what I say to the extent if anyone can get those news reporting on it since goggle has been paid to take them all down I'll pay 10k English for those news reports I'm a man of my words ok seriously I mean what next ? Seriously what next ha? Plus all involved in and around those pieces of paper etc go check the names behind it all apart from the 1 or 2 who were paid off ok but the rest of the names go see ok seriously this is just phewwww man this sort of desperation is very sick and ill and bad as you CANNOT MAKE A LIE INTO THE truth ok NO YOU CANNOT imagine Birmingham UK a hotspot of many many different abduls ha? Need I say anymore ???
And why do you call him "Jesus" it's Yeshua pbuh? The Arab Christians have it right. Yesua pbuh in the Arabic Bible. The name "jesus" was a church construct in 1630. Yep, another edit because God couldn't your book right the first time.
When Jews failed Mosses mission and Jews became with no land then God sent Jesus to Jews but they killed him and told the west Jesus is son if god and died in your sin to came out from their crime. For that fail Moses and killed Jesus who came to lost sheep of Israel God cut the prophet hood to Issac Israeli and sent to Ishmael Muhammad with the Quran as the last revelation. Read Quran for your salvation.
Who is allah,who is mohammed so called prophet did not did any prophecy and first and last prophet of allah,one of the 360 idols in the kaba with three daughters latha, ussa, manatha and one son called essa. Book of quran is the satanic verses.
That's what Jews said to Jesus there is no salvation in the Injil not they went futher to kill him. Jews don't believe in Jesus no in bible but believe on their old book Torah and their prophets Moses. The rejected the salvation of jesus just like many now reject the salvation of Muhammad and Quran.
@@saidmohammed7597 1. Where did you read what the Jews said to Jesus? What even is "Injeel" to them? That's not even a word, not until 600 years later, when it first appeared in the Quran. 2. Jews believe in the 1st part of the Bible - what we call the Old Testament, which is mainly the Torah (the Pentateuch, or the 5 books of Moses, plus some of the other revelations such as Isaiah), the Talmud, and (for some) the Mishna. 3. Where does Muhammad offer salvation at all? He clearly said that he cannot, that he is only a messenger, and that even he didn't know whether he would see Paradise.
Jay Smith is jealous. Them manuscripts match the Qur’an today. Christianity is relying on 4th century Greek manuscripts written by unknown writers in another country. Christianity is a 4th century Greek theatre production.
This is what the Birmingham Foliis contain: a) The 7 Sleepers of Ephesus (Christian, 6th century) b) Proto-Evangelium of James (Christian, 2nd century) c) Pseudo Gospel of Matthew (Christian, 7th century) d) Story of Moses (Jewish, 5th century BC) => Nothing is Islamic
@@firstnamesecondname852 Educate yourself as yu don't know what ISLAM is and think that Mohammad (saw) copied and came up with a new religion.😅🤣😂 All the Prophets were Muslim. th-cam.com/video/tw2UbF01BSw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/GJLtu9qpuC4/w-d-xo.html
The Quran were always scattered around like this until Uthman during his reign decided to compose in 1 book because alot of Hafiz(those who memorize the quran from A to Z) died in wars. So the arguments from the grandpa kinda weak from a Muslim POV.
So, this was one of the bits that missed the fire? Funny that it happens to tell a well known 6th century story and not something ‘unique’ t-ó the Koran, hard as that would be to find.
@@justaminute3111 Islam is Abrahamic religion 3.0. Its not a new religion. Muslim even call the older gen prophets as Muslim as well. That include prophet Jesus n Moses. Muslim just means those who submit to the one true God. So same old story retell just bits variation.
The Quran is a divine scripture that serves as a criterion to validate or invalidate previous scriptures or historical narrations. So the Quran either confirms or correct what is found in the Torah or Injeel.
Prove it devine scripture?? To kill jews and christians? To enjoy with women? Alla with 2 hands and a leg.. handicap alla? Pedophilia is allowed in kuran???? Sleep with others wives allowed??? At the end the kuran is KAMA SUTRA book. And you call devine? Bulshit... you and your people are deceived by alla and mohamed. Infact alla is devil
@@firstnamesecondname852 Dear Brother, The stories maybe similar but not the same. It is similar because it came from the same god. The Quran is meant to rectify the corruption in the previous scriptures.
@@mohamadromzee7394 The Koran copied parts of the Jewish Talmud and Christian Apocrypha. None of them are considered as scriptures. Scriptures are the Jewish Old Testament and the Christian New Testament.
What you don't even realize is that the majority of the stuff in the Quran that were copied from Christian and Jewish sources came from folklore, literally made up fairy tales that contradict the stories in the Bible. We even know who wrote them, when they were written, and why they were written. The Quran is telling us that those stories are true? Your "prophet" had no idea, did he?
Aaron your religion is made up of the torra and the bible and your pagan religion you have basically taken the word’s out to suit your own narrative which being Islam and the q.ran. Pagan religion. Moon god worshippers. You follow a man who married a 6 year old girl 👧. How sick 😷 is that. Repent before it’s too late ⏰. ✝️☝️✝️.
The subject is Birmingham folios. I can understand your disappointment, but jumping on a completely unrelated topic shows pure desperation. The typical Muslim procedure... If you were not as uneducated as your lying role models Deedar and Naik, you would surely know what the original Aramaic Bible says: *"But Yeshua said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, and you shall behold The Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of Heaven.” (Mark 14:62)* The same applies to Matthew 14:27, Mark 6:50, Luke 22:70, John 4:26, 6:20, 8:24, 8:58, 13:19 and 18:5-6. And this only refers to the New Testament. - THIS is what Jesus taught!
Nobody really cares about that Manuel script 😂because the quran that the world has now is completely intact and good enough for all muslims...so you guys sounds ridiculous 😂🎉
Dear , brother,, understand QORAN IS THE FINAL TESTAMENT FROM OUR LORD . Let me teach you little math here : set N is in set Z is in set D. ... In set i (complex number) I,e) Tawrat is in Zabur Psalm is in Injil Gospel is in Qoran.... Simple math logic 😁😂🤣🤣. Why would be surprised to find a story from Tawrat in Qoran... The thing u must be thinking why 😢 you will be focusing on following one set of the reality (Torah or Gospel).Hence there is the last final set that combined all reality (Qoran), means there's a part of reality you are missing.
Not entirely, although many people consider the Bible a fiction because when they read it, they believe they can recognise fictional elements in the Bible. Once, most people would have studiously overlooked the evidence and accepted the words of their churches, but there is now a trend for people to use their ability to think. They now realise that most of the Bible consists of myths, legends, folklore and religious propaganda-in other words, fiction. Some parts of the Bible that were once asserted to be literally true are often now described as symbolic, but only because it is no longer possible to sustain an argument that they are literally true. Other parts, such as the Books of Job, Daniel and Esther, were written as novels and only later began to be assumed as histories. Burton L. Mack, in Who Wrote the New Testament, calls Mark’s Gospel a fiction that could not have been conceived before the war. On Acts of the Apostles, Hans Joachim Schoeps writes in Das Judenchristentum, cited in English by Uta Ranke-Heinemann in Putting Away Childish Things: Acts is only a retrospective view of Christian origins written by one party - the winners. Anyone used to evaluating texts critically has no choice but to rate it as a document of the second or even third Christian generation. Acts follows a clear didactic line and for this reason energetically cultivates the creation of legends and reshapes persons and events according to its own standards.
No one cares, ismail khatri. Christians have their religion that is valid for them & you can believe as you wish. The problem with islam & muslims is that they become violent when their faith is questioned which means they are not sure islam is even true. Christians are strong in their faith & do not care what anyone thinks.
Ismail Khatri It seems you're embarrassed by these discoveries.. First of all you should be embarrassed more by your most obvious false prophet in history; an Arabian caravan robber, a child molester and the most evil character presented by your most authentic Islamic sources..
Thank you guys for the great work.
What didn't Islam rip off/plagiarize when it comes to the Quran?
That you can have sex with prepubescent kids... Islam / Muhammad came up with that on his own. XD
Jihad
@@falkenauge4.0ace8 They probably ripped off jihad from some pre Islamic pagan religion.
Miraculous camel urine. Allah knows best.
@@falkenauge4.0ace8 Don't forget mutah.
You guys are fantastic I love just keep giving the information ❤️
Islam's own Shabir Ali admitted on camera that the palimpsest was erased and rewritten. He said that they always knew about the different Qurans with different words and meanings and Muslims are repeating what they've been told. His admission is very similar to Sheikh Yasir Qadhi who said that the standard narrative has holes in it and doesn't answer pressing questions from western scholars who are very right about points they bring up.
@jazzymiles miles Try sticking to the video “BOZO” .. Islam the religion of lies..
@jazzymiles miles learn English first ….and by the way , there is ZERO REQUIREMENTs for Christian’s to do so…lol…Islam is lost…
@jazzymiles miles
ABDUL CAME AGAIN TO INSULT HIMSELF🤣🤣
@@defenderoftruth3212
th-cam.com/video/1Q6CB_Pny2g/w-d-xo.html
👆 👆 👆
@Defender of Truth I'm glad you brought up the subject of plagairism. The writers of the Quran copied several fictional stories written hundreds of years before Muhammad. "The Seven Sleepers" was written by Jacob of Serugh, a middle aged poet. This story that was copied into the Quran was written as a bedtime story for children. Also, The writer of the Quran copied "The Romance of Alexander" for the Quran’s 18th chapter. Also copied into the Quran were fairytales about Solomon, flying carpets and talking ants.😳😳
What a fabulous presentation!
Brothers Dr. Jay and Al-Fadi - I was hoping you would delve/investigate the actual claims about the Birmingham manuscript being written during the time of the prophet.
The fact is, the Arabic orthography found in these manuscripts do not coincide with the time-frame as that of the carbon dating of the parchments. In other words - the Arabic writing style on these parchments are a much later add-on (way after the death of Muhammad) to the older parchments.
During the time of Muhammad - the Arabs did not have a well established writing style as found on these parchments. Instead, Arabs during Muhammad's time used a very simplistic style of writing taken from the Nabateans. I urge you to look into this to help debunk the claim 'Muslims have copies of the Quran written during Muhammad's time'.
May the Lord bless you both
What’s your calibration tool to date manuscripts?🫠
Do you accept palaeography?
Palaeography completely debunks all Jay Smith own made up claims.
There are no honest Christians who call out the nonsense and lies of Jay Smith.
Which scholar claims that the Birmingham manuscript is not a Quranic manuscript?🤥🫠
@@alonzoharris9049most of the Quran is just badly told stories that Muhammad heard at one point. That’s why it took him so long to tell his story. God didn’t take that long to write the 10 commandments.
@@bngr_bngr
Your bible is full of plagiarised material.
Christians who are making these claims about others.🤣
@@alonzoharris9049 I've responded earlier but do not see my comment for some reason. I do not have the energy to re-write but in a nutshell:
It is one thing to radio carbon the material and another to date based on writing (paleography). The latter trumps any radio-carboning of the materials.
Some scholars - such as Muhammad al Msiyah and Qasim al-Samiraii - demonstrate that the parchment of the Birmingham manuscript is OLDER than the writing itself.
Such scholars have estimated, based on the writing, the Birmingham manuscripts are actually 2-3rd Century AH (way after Muhammad). This is because the Arabs during Muhammad's time did not write in the same manner as we see in the Birmingham manuscripts (i.e. Hijazi script, red ink, spacing, dotting, etc). The Arabs wrote in a far more simplistic manner closer to the Nabateans.
I'm guessing my initial comment was blocked because I supplied links and articles. I won't do it this time - you are free to research this.
Bottom line - the Birmingham manuscripts are NOT as old as Muslims claim.
@@alonzoharris9049 Alonzo, I'm sorry, but you need a new religion. Even you must realize it's not going well for islam.
Thanks for your great work. God bless you both.
I learnt a lot. Thank you.
Birmingham folly 😂
That's good, I like that. I wished I had thought of it.
@@defenderoftruth3212 Did you mean to say that? "Unlike the Bible, it (the Quran) remains an empty book." I must agree with you. The Quran is about as empty as any book could be. It cannot be understood in any language. Allah must have been drunk on those rivers of wine when he passed like that down. Thank God Islam will be gone in 50 years.
@@defenderoftruth3212hahahabthe Bible is filled with fake stories and the Quran copied faked stories so the Quran is also fake
Maybe this is what Shaykh Dr. Yasir Qadhi is seeing in these gaps. When he "misspoke" about using the words, "holes in the narrative". He now knows there are Christians and Jews in the narrative. It would be an academic breakthrough in his career to speak the truth, a type of road to Damascus journey for him and become a servant of God rather than a slave to a long dead seventh century warlord.
What are the holes? I don’t want your opinion. What does he consider to be a hole?
@@alonzoharris9049 My Gosh, Alonzo, stop playing ignorance. You've been around for a long time & seem all the videos so you know the massive holes in the Holey Quran. Don't expect anyone to waste their time explaining them to you.
@@sheikhboyardee556 that's all the muslims can do,play ignorance,coz the sentence "ignorance is bliss"is made for the muslims.
@@alonzoharris9049
Take Yasir Qadhi's class...
@@alonzoharris9049 You shouldn't comment without watching the video first.
When everyone is infected with the same brain-rotting madness, no-one is going to take exception to it. That this psychosis should still be defended by so-called ‘scholars’ and still causing misery around the world after 1400 years is a sad reflection on humanity. Or else, it is proof positive of the activity of a malign spirit.
You articulated it well
@@danielganesh55no it’s because humanity fears the the unknown and Islam is a great system to fight fear of the unknown as it makes one ignorant and doesn’t allow one to think
@@Topagendadolla i live in muslim country from birth. I know islam like the back of my hand. The scriptures, history, and culture and its driving force in its ummah. It is certainly demonic. That is primary. Psychology, politics etc are just the secondary fruits.
Malign spirit is absolutely correct.
@@FromValkyrie I forgot to ad credit for the quote, this was by Winston Churchill.
Great work men!
Not really. They forget to mention the most important point - that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable. Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum.
Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
@@theastronomer5800 Thank you for your comment. Much appreciated. So, by post-Uthmanic, are we talking about last quarter of the 7th century or early 8th century? How much later in time?
To make the presentation even more powerful, why don't you put up copies the Greek original account De situ terrae sanctae, written between 518 and 531, records the existence of a church dedicated to the sleepers in Ephesus and earliest Syriac manuscript copy MS Saint-Petersburg No. 4, which dates to the fifth century, ALONG SIDE the Birmingham folios? Another sixth-century version, in a Syrian manuscript in the British Museum (Cat. Syr. Mss, p. 1090), gives eight sleepers.
So even the Birmingham manuscripts are not Islamic then what is there remaining, as the oldest Islamic manuscripts?
John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go My way, and you shall seek Me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come.
:22 Then said the Jews, will He kill Himself? Because He says, whither I go, you cannot come.
:23 And He said unto them, you are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.
:24 I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sins.
Amen.
Amen.❤
@@defenderoftruth3212 You must lie awake nights over muhammad’s blatant plagiarism of the holy Bible, both the Torah/Old Testament & New Testament, and also over his plagiarism of ancient Syriac scrolls.
@Defender of Truth
Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.
@@defenderoftruth3212 th-cam.com/play/PLFEB6sUeKDdsMp-LLcSyPINHe-5YOkQGH.html
Haleluya Amen
Soon Alonzo Harris, General JG, Aaron H and Rocky Balboa will come and preach their three gods agenda.... However, the more they do that, the more my faith in The LORD JESUS CHRIST is confirmed and increased...
Ha ha, I agree. It's always fun to find him in these comments sections. He probably has ten plus accounts and you learn to spot his "style" pretty easy.
@@defenderoftruth3212 You say Jesus is not known in Israel today, BUT you claim He is your Prophet. Now the Question is: Unto which people did Jesus was sent to as a prophet? Isnt that double standard?
You also say that Jesus is Born of Virgin Mary as a Word of ALLAH through his Spirit. You claim that Jesus is HOLY, and a mighty messenger, and BORN through the Power of The Holy Spirit, yet, YOU DENY that GOD cannot have a SON. Isnt that double Standard?
You deny that Jesus is not known in Israel, but proclaim that he is a prophet sent to the Jews.
You say that Jesus is born of a virgin as a WORD from Allah, but DENY that HE is THE SON OF GOD...
Brother, the Islamic LOGIC is mind blowing...
Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable. If "Dr" Jay Smith was being honest he would know/mentions this... Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum.
Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
@Bosley Boting Their so called prophet isa means horse/camel semen, if a muslim tells you they love Jesus, they don't, they just love animal semen ☠️
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Didn't Uthman burn away the seven modes/systems and now there's just the 7 (or 10) recitations?
It's always the wrong move to burn books 📚.
Anybody have surviving modes/systems tucked away?
Yes. They were still throwing Qurans into the Nile River after they made Hafs, less than a hundred years ago.
That's true, Muslims don't read or study they mostly depends on common men as in leaders who continue telling them lies upon lies just to favor there many wives and hold up mansions...praise be to Jesus
Where is the full bible of the 1 century?
Dead Sea Scrolls....
Dead Sea Scrolls
Birmingham Manuscript from 7-8th Century - 2 folios. Only 33 verses in the Quran.
Mohammed’s Folly!
Jesus married own mother
Birmingham folly: 33 out of 6236 verses (only 3 chapters: 33 out of 343 verses)
Birmingham folly is not a full qur'an.
1. Ch 18: 17-31 (The 7 Sleepers of Ephesus [512 AD], written by Syrian Bishop Jacob of Sarug)
2. Ch 19:91-98 (Proto-Evangelium of James [145AD] and The Pseudo Gospel of Matthew [600AD])
3. Ch 20:1-40 (The story of Moses [1400BC])
interview's video of prof. qasim al samarrai is interesting as well.
Stephen Shoemaker has pointed out that early Qur'anic manuscripts that are Carbon dated in more than one centre tend to produce very different ranges of dates. This indicates that there seems to be a problem with Middle Eastern manuscripts and Carbon dating. Consequently, dating of those manuscripts is not to be accepted without palaeographic analysis too.
10:22 Hatun, the 5ft Giant
But didn’t the prophet could not read or write, so who wrote it?
We already know this is waffle when he said "This is the Quran that Muhammad read. This is the Quran that Muhammad wrote."
The NT GOSPELS - Evidence of Author's & Dates Written
▪︎ Matthew - A tax collector who became Jesus' apostle and wrote about the life of Jesus as the Messiah for the Jewish community c. 65 AD.
▪︎ Mark - A Jew, and a companion of Peter and Paul, who wrote for both Jews and Gentiles about Christ's death and resurrection c. 65 AD.
▪︎ Luke - A Gentile doctor, and a companion of Peter and Paul who wrote for the Gentiles about Christ the saviour for humankind. c. 60 AD
▪︎ Luke - also wrote the Acts of the Apostles c. 65 AD.
▪︎ John - The 'beloved' apostle of Jesus, wrote in his later years about the Word who took on Flesh (John 1:1,14) c. 80-90 AD.
▪︎ John - also wrote 3 Letters and The Book of Revelations c. 80-90 AD.
▪︎ James - Jesus' cousin, wrote 1 letter c. 35 AD.
▪︎ Paul - wrote 13 letters c.49 - 65 AD.
▪︎ Jude - wrote 1 letter c. 65 AD.
▪︎ Peter - wrote 2 letters c. 67 AD.
▪︎ The author of The Letter to Hebrews is unknown c. 65 AD.
(Wikipedia).
▪︎ Jesus Christ's' ministry occurred between 27-30 A.D.
▪︎ Christianity began after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ when thousands of Jews became followers of 'The Way' (Jesus).
▪︎ The New Testament scholar, F.F. Bruce, gives strong historical evidence that the New Testament was completed by A.D. 100.
▪︎ Most writings of the New Testament were completed twenty to forty years before 100 AD. (Wikipedia).
▪︎ The apostles and their companions wrote the New Testament from their first-hand experiences with Jesus.
New Testament integrity is supported by historians, biblical and textual scholars, along with thousands of early codices, manuscripts and the Dead Sea Scrolls, proving the validity and preservation of the Gospels written between c. 35-90 A.D
(Eusebius, Church History 111. 39 .15; Irenaeus Against Heresies, 111.1)
INTERNAL Evidence:
▪︎ The internal evidence supports these early dates for several reasons. The first three Gospels prophesied the fall of the Jerusalem Temple which occurred in A.D. 70. However, the fulfillment is not mentioned. It is strange that these three Gospels predict this major event but do not record it happening. Why do they not mention such an important prophetic milestone? The most plausible explanation is that it had not yet occurred at the time Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written.
▪︎ In the book of Acts, the Temple plays a central role in the nation of Israel. Luke writes as if the Temple is an important part of Jewish life. He also ends Acts on a strange note: Paul living under house arrest.
It is strange that Luke does not record the death of his two chief characters, Peter and Paul. The most plausible reason for this is that Luke finished writing Acts before Peter and Paul's martyrdom in A.D. 64. A significant point to highlight is that the Gospel of Luke precedes Acts, further supporting the traditional dating of c. A.D. 60.
Most scholars agree Mark precedes Luke, making Mark's Gospel even earlier.
▪︎ Finally, the majority of New Testament scholars believe that Paul's epistles are written from A.D. 48-60. Paul's outline of the life of Jesus matches that of the Gospels.
1 Corinthians is one of the least disputed books regarding its dating and Pauline authorship.
In 1Corinthians chapter 15, Paul summarizes the gospel and reinforces the premise that this is the same gospel preached by the apostles.
Paul quotes from Luke's Gospel in 1 Timothy 5:18, showing us that Luke's Gospel was indeed completed in Paul's lifetime. This would move the time of the completion of Luke's Gospel along with Mark and Matthew.
This Internal Evidence presents a strong case for the early dating of the Gospels.
EXTERNAL Evidence - Gospel Dates:
▪︎ Were the Gospels written by eyewitnesses of the events, or were they not recorded until centuries later? As with the internal evidence, the external evidence also supports a first century date.
▪︎ Fortunately, New Testament scholars have an enormous amount of ancient manuscript evidence. The documentary evidence for the New Testament far surpasses any other work of its time, with over 5000 manuscripts, and many are dated within a few years of their authors' lives.
KEY documents:
▪︎ Chester Beatty Papyri contains most of the N.T. writings, and is dated around A.D. 250.
▪︎ The Bodmer Papyri contains most of John, and dates to A.D. 200.
▪︎ Rylands Papyri that was found in Egypt and contains large fragments of John, and dates to A.D. 130.
From this fragment we can conclude that John was completed well before A.D. 130 because, not only did the gospel have to be written, it had to be hand copied and make its way down from Greece to Egypt.
The majority of scholars agree that John is the last gospel written, so we can affirm its first century date along with the other three with greater assurance.
EARLY New Testament Papyrus Manuscripts:
▪︎ Dead Sea Scrolls, the Full Text of Isaiah 53 and a portion of every book, c. 250 BC.
▪︎ Old Testament Greek Septuagint c. 200 BC.
▪︎ P52 (John Rylands Fragment) - John 18:31-33; 37-38 c. 96 AD
▪︎ P90 (Oxyrhynchus) - John 18:36; 19:7 c. 96 AD
▪︎ P104 (Oxyrhynchus) - Matthew 21:34-37, 43, 45 c. 60-65 AD
▪︎ P46 (Chester Beatty Papyrus) - Romans 5:17-6; 5-14; 8:15-25; 27-35; 10:1-11, 22, 24-33, 35; 16:1-23; 25-27.
And Hebrews; 1 & 2; Corinthians; Ephesians; Galatians; Philippians; Colossians; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 9-10; 2:1-3; 5:5-9, 23-28 c. 50’s-70’s AD
▪︎ P98 (IFAO) - Revelation 1:13; 2:1 c. 90 AD
▪︎ P66 (Bodmer Papyrus) - John 1:1-6,11; 6:35; 14:26; fragment of 14:29; 21:9 c. 70’s AD
▪︎ P67 Matthew 3:9, 15; 5:20-22; 25-28 c. 60-65 AD
▪︎ Evidence also comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls Cave 7.
Jose Callahan discovered a large fragment of the Gospel of Mark and dated it to have been written in A.D. 50. Also large fragments of Acts and other epistles and dated them to have been written slightly after A.D. 50.4
Another line of evidence is the writings of the church fathers.
▪︎ CLEMENT of Rome sent a letter to the Corinthian church in A.D. 95. in which he quoted from the Gospels and other portions of the N.T.
▪︎ IGNATIUS, Bishop of Antioch, wrote a letter before his martyrdom in Rome in A.D. 115, quoting all the Gospels and other N.T. letters.
▪︎ POLYCARP wrote to the Philippians in A.D. 120 and quoted from the Gospels and N.T. letters.
▪︎ JUSTIN MARTYR, A.D. 150 quotes John 3. Church fathers of the early second century were familiar with the apostle's writings and quoted them as inspired Scripture.
▪︎ Early dating is important for two reasons. The closer a historical record is to the date of the event, the more likely the record is accurate. Early dating allows for eyewitnesses to still be alive when the Gospels were circulating to attest to their accuracy.
The apostles often appeal to the witness of the hostile crowd, pointing to their knowledge of the facts as well (Acts 2:22, 26:26).
Also, the time is too short for legends to develop.
Historians agree it takes about two generations, or eighty years, for legendary accounts to establish themselves.
From the evidence, we can conclude the Gospels were indeed written by the authors they are attributed to.
THE First Fully Bound Bible Books/Codices
▪︎ Codex Vaticanus: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 280 - 330 AD
▪︎ Codex Siniaticus: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 300 - 350 AD
▪︎ Codex Alexandrius: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 350 - 400 AD
▪︎ Codex Vulgate: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 380 - 400 AD
JESUS and the Jews were multilingual
▪︎ "Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross.
It read: 'JESUS Of NAZARETH, THE KING Of THE JEWS'.
Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek" (John 19:19-20)
▪︎ The Gospels were written in Koine Greek being the World's language in the 1st century
The Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek (Septuagint) c.200 BC for the many Greek speaking Jews
It is well known that first-century Jerusalem was inhabited by Greek speaking Jews who were at least bilingual. And Jesus most likely was trilingual apart from the ability to read minds.
So the original Gospels were written in Koine Greek and sent throughout the World..
▪︎ Jewish culture was heavily influenced by Hellenistic culture, and Koine Greek was used not only for international communication but also as the first language of many Jews. This development was furthered by the fact that the largest Jewish community in the world lived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. (Wikipedia)
GOD Protects His Sacred Words:
▪︎ "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!" (Galatians 1:8-9).
▪︎ Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matt 24:35).
▪︎ God protects His Word the Gospels and warns of antichrists..
▪︎ Christ's Good News of Salvation, His Birth, Crucifixion and Resurrection hasn't changed for 2000 years.
▪︎ The Gospels are evidenced by internal and external historical, archeological & literary facts.
▪︎ The Gospels are reliable and transparent with any variations transparently referenced in the footnotes.
▪︎ The Gospels have 1000 times more manuscripts than the most documented ancient literature by Greco-Roman historian, Suetonius.
▪︎ The Bible is the most comprehensive and reliable source about 1st century Jerusalem history and used by archaeologists for supporting research and evidence today..
Hallelujah..
A few people in the Gospels have been menitoned as "the son of Alphaeus". There is also Mary "the wife of Alphaeus".
The original (or at least the first) manuscript we have of the Christian Gospels - Codex Sinaiticus - lacks "son of"/"wife of".
The surname could be (and should be) read as "the Alphaeus" = "the Aleppo-ite/Halabite.
So we have: James the Aleppo-ite, Matthew the Aleppo-ite, and Mary (Jesus' mother) the Aleppo-ite. These three would have settled in Aleppo after 70 CE.
So Matthew's gospel was written in Aleppo perhaps 75CE-80CE.
When St Jerome wanted to copy the Gospel of Matthew for the Christian New Testament in 390 CE, he went to see the Nazarenes at Aleppo, as they held the original Gospel of Matthew.
Quran (of the Nazarenes) calls this Gospel 'the Injeel'.
A blow to islam
Very interesting
On Answering Islam I found an old article by Jay Smith about this manuscript. Unfortunately it is not possible to insert the link. In that article he did not write that in the verses of Surah 19 there is a part of the proto-gospel of James.
He wrote correctly:
[19:91-98] Statements that Allah does
not take to himself a son [91-94] all
people are slaves with Him having full
power over their Judgment [95-96]
believe and do deeds of righteousness
will result in His love for them [97-98]
The Qur’an is easy in the prophet’s own
tongue to warn his people.
Why does Mr. Smith now invent something that is not in the text? Why does he not remain at the truth? Does he really think to convince a Muslim in that way? Truth will prevail!
I am disappointed about this argumentation. It makes it more difficult to convince Muslims. They simply have to check the verses of the quran and will see that they were lied.
Jay smith is a habitual liar and will chop and change whatever he fancy to malign Islam.
What is your problem with Muslims?
THE PROBLEM
is that you think that the Quran copied from previous scriptures but fail to realize that the Quran came TO CORRECT all the corruption made by men, so obviously similar Stories are shared.
THE DEEPER PROBLEM
is that you think that Mohammad (saw) made-up a New religion. ISLAM and copied from previous scriptures.
. The Birmingham manuscript’s parchment is the only thing that has been carbon dated. Every single one of the above mentioned articles has noted that, indeed, there is no actual evidence to suggest the text itself predates the Prophet’s lifetime. According to the logic being used by the “predating” line of thinking, If I found a scrap of paper that existed prior to my birth and wrote something on it, it means that, actually, what I had written magically predates my birth. Again: all we know is that the parchment itself came from an animal that lived before the Prophet’s birth. What does this mean in terms of “rewriting the history of Islam?” Absolutely zilch.
As for the articles on the subject of dating, here is a sampling of quotes:
Small cautioned that the carbon dating was only done on the parchment in the fragments, and not the actual ink…
Keith Small, of Oxford’s Bodleian Library, cautioned that carbon dating was done only on the Koran’s parchment and not its ink, but he said the dates were probably accurate.
The pages were carbon-dated by experts at the University of Oxford, a process which showed the Islamic holy book manuscript could be the oldest Quran in the world.
With that said, the carbon dating was only done on the parchment in the fragments, and not the actual ink. However, if the date does apply to the parchment and the ink, then the Koran-or at least parts of it-actually predates Mohammad.
The most interesting bit is actually in the last quote. “If the date does apply to the parchment and the ink.” Well, fine. But since that is total speculation, it doesn’t belong in a news piece, let alone coming from the mouth of a librarian. In the meantime, every single article leads with a completely misleading title. No manuscripts or studies or science suggest that the Qurʾān predates the Prophet Muḥammad. At best, every headline should have been a variation of “Birmingham manuscript suggests that an animal lived before the lifetime of Muḥammad.” But then, I suppose that’s not very interesting news.
2. The Qurʾān contains names and events that could not predate the Prophet’s birth. For instance, Muḥammad’s name is mentioned four times in the text of the Qurʾān. One of his relatives, Abū Lahab, is mentioned by name, and the sūra (chapter) in which he is referenced even includes a pun about it. An entire sūra deals with the battle by the Muslims to conquer Mecca. Another sūra concerns the birth of one of the Prophet’s daughters. Another mentions him hiding in a cave to escape his Meccan pursuers when migrating to Medina. These are just a handful of examples. Any one of them, let alone all of them together, especially taken in conjunction with the fact that only the parchment of the manuscript potentially predates the Prophet’s birth, would lead any reasonable individual to conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Qurʾān simply could not exist except after the beginning of Muḥammad’s prophetic mission.
Here’s a great example. “Ṭaha” is one of the endearing names used by God for the Prophet Muḥammad. In fact, there is an entire sūra known by this name. And guess what? It is included among the Birmingham fragments:
This was interesting. Are there any folios that mention anything specifically Islamic, like Mohammed being a prophet or anything?
Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable, they forget to mention this... Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum.
Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
@@theastronomer5800 they do mention that the carbon dating used is not really reliable.
I only have one problem with what was said- there is no Qur'an from Muhammad's time. So how do we know the the Birmingham manuscript and Qur'an potentially overlapped in time?
My channel debunks Christianity.
They don't. Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is not reliable, Dr. Smith should know this - sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum.
Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
@@theastronomer5800
Christianity is false. My channel debunks Christianity.
@@theastronomer5800 Show me one, just one Uthmanic text. There isn't one, so how can there be an "Uthmanic text type"? And Dr. Jay Smith HAS mentioned many times that carbon dating of the ink is impossible and carbon dating is unreliable at best.
@@lindaclark6148 Hey Linda. Not my words... From what I understand mss experts study Uthmanic text-types. A text-type does not mean that it is a mss from the period of Uthman. From Putten's "The Grace of God” as evidence for a written Uthmanic archetype: the importance of shared orthographic idiosyncrasies" Cambridge, 2019:
"Sadeghi defines the Uthmanic text type as agreeing with the text of the 1924 Cairo Edition of the Quran, a tradition that “reportedly began with the codices ʿUthmān disseminated as the ancestors of all the manuscripts in the textual tradition”. These codices all agree on: 1. the order of the surahs; 2. the order of the verses within each surah; and 3. the content of these verses in terms of individual words (Sadeghi and Bergmann Reference Sadeghi and Bergmann 2010: 347).
The vast majority of known Quranic manuscripts (all but the Sanaa palimpsest, in fact) ARE OF THE UTHMANIC TEXT TYPE (my emphasis), and only minor variations are present in this text type."
You can easily email Dr. van Putten for clarification on this - I'm pretty sure he know better than you or me what this exactly means and why it's called that, I do trust his wealth of knowledge and expertise on this topic and have listened to several excellent talks by him. Hope this helps. Cheers!
Has anybody got the full translation of the Birmingham Folio?
I'm going to translate this video into Malayalam and Hindi
Muhammad and Allah are the one and same person.
C L - Not like human God Jesus Christ.
@@shahrahman4368 Yeshua ha’Mashiach is not a created being but the eternally existent second person of the triune Godhead who came to earth in the mortal body of His own creation. He lived the perfect/sinless life no fallen mortal could ever live, keeping perfectly every jot and tittle of the Mosaic/Judaic Law. He alone could atone for the sins of fallen man - being fully human yet fully God - and He gave up His life on the cross or no mortal could have taken it from Him. Yeshua stepped out of that body triumphant over sin and death for all wise enough to accept His free gift. Then He proved He is exactly who He says He is - Yehovah God - by reanimating that lifeless body after three days, exactly as He said He would.
How come the Arabic bibles say Allah?
@@Samshamfam how come the Arabic Bible says allh has a son amd that son created the universe? Don’t ask stoopid questions.
Chances are strong that both are myths and never existed.
The same guy who played dress up pretending to be a Muslim to convert Muslims to Christianity Wow! Jay smith y’all hero😂
Are the verses mentioned correct?
Surah 19:91-98 (Arberry):
91 that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son;
92 and it behoves not the All-merciful to take a son.
93 None is there in the heavens and earth but he comes to the All-merciful as a servant;
94 He has indeed counted them, and He has numbered them exactly.
95 Every one of them shall come to Him upon the Day of Resurrection, all alone.
96 Surely those who believe and do deeds of righteousness -- unto them the All-merciful shall assign love.
97 Now We have made it easy by thy tongue that thou mayest bear good tidings thereby to the godfearing, and warn a people stubborn.
98 And how many a generation We destroyed before them! Dost thou perceive so much as one of them, or hear of them a whisper?
I know the proto-gospel of James. These verses are not there.
I am not a muslim and I would like to use your arguments. But before I say something I check the argument. This argument I cannot and will not use. I have to be aware that the muslim I want to convince knows the quran better than I do.
Zakir Naik thought he'd do some more grifting during this Ramadan, this time in Oman.
The Indian embassy over there have requested that Oman deport him to India for trial.
The Quran was conveyed via oral transmission, not written. Even today hundreds from across the world learn the Quran from memory. That's how its been presevered. This manuscript....what does it actually say? Verses from the Quran or Bible? They are verses from the Quran that match today. They are not Bible verses. Approx one third of the Quran contains stories of history including Christianity and Children of Israel times. It mentions the Torah and Ingel (Bible) by name. So whats your point? It copied the Bible....that makes no sense. It in fact confirms that Jesus (Esa) Moses (Musa) and others were believers of the Almighty and that their original message was corrupted and the Quran has come to confirm their real truthful message and of all the Messengers.
Then it becomes more convenient to be corrupted. Bcz oral transmission is off less accuracy
Can someone PLEASE Explain that if 'Islam' was created some decades, even hundreds of years AFTER 642 AD Why there are references to the Mosques, Islam etc. BEFORE 632 AD!!!???
What references are those? The Birmingham is dated to late-7th century by basically all mss experts based on paleography. As for the word mosque/masjid, the root word "sajada" (سَجَدَ) which the word "masjid" is derived from, is mentioned in pre-Islamic Arabic poetry in reference to prostration or bowing down in worship.
"Mosques, Islam etc. BEFORE 632 AD" Where? Even during the arab conquests across north africa none of the inhabitants recorded any mention of muslims, quran, or a prophet called muhammed.
Did I just hear Dr. Jay say that Muslims said that this is "this is the Qur'an that Muhammad [peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him] *wrote* "?
Obviously no knowledgeable Muslim says that. Ask the right people, Dr. Jay.
I do not even know why people take Dr. Jay to be a serious person.
What about other things Dr Jay said in this video
Any comment besides what you said above?
@@rusuriasuria9989 absolutely.
@@rusuriasuria9989 When Dr. Jay tells you "this passage comes *straight from* the bible" do not take him serious.
@@Got-it747
Nonsense
The video expose Islam
Even the modern Qur'an is a clearly concocted mess. The Islamic scholar Ali Dashti (his Bk "23 Years") provides detailed lists of grammatical errors and syntactical impossibilities. He writes:
_”The Qur’an includes incomplete sentences…there are foreign terms, expressions, and words that are unknown in Arabic but used anyway, and applied in ways that are different from their usual meanings. In the Qur’an, grammatical rules are ignored, regardless of whether it concerns the feminine or masculine gender, verb, noun, adjective, or adverbs. In addition, there are ill𝜊gical and grammatically inc𝜊rrect pronouns which in various places do not show any relation to each other.”_
God would not dictate thusly.
Answer from Zakir Naik
th-cam.com/video/7IP51naK1w4/w-d-xo.html
Dashti's books is well worth the ready! Every Muslim should read it, sadly, they won't.
Facinating!
9:49 I am sorry??? 😂😂 so you say translate from Aramaic to Greek and then to English was a good way to translate the gospels atleast Arabic and Aramaic are both Semitic languages
I watched this video, then took a quick look at Wikipedia on the topic. I'm not a scholar and may be wrong, but it seems to me that the interpretation of Mr. Jay Smith is biased and omits some arguments in favor of the authenticity of the manuscript. As a Christian my god is the Truth and I can never use false arguments to help my Muslim friends to leave Islam.
Yep, he is very dishonest, and loves to speculate about the history to fit his own narrative
The stuff about Jesus being just a prophet sounds influenced by the Ebionite Gospel, maybe Arabs had a version of it. The Quran doesn't have all the features of Ebionism but a few, others are contrary to it, The Ebionites didn't accept the the idea that Mary was "untouched" like the Quran says, for instance. The authors obviously took bits and pieces from a variety of sources. I think the idea of the Quran being delivered by an angel came from the Book of Elchasai. It encouraged circumcision, which may be why it's in Islam.
So you think that Mohammad (saw) made-up a New religion. ISLAM and copied from previous scriptures?😅🤣😂
THAT'S WHAT THE EVIL MISSIONARIES
want you to believe.
ISLAM STARTED WITH CREATION
and with ALL the Prophets, from Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Thousands of Prophets...AND MOHAMMAD (saw) COMPLETED THE RELIGION.
ALL THE PROPHETS
had the same religion with the same message of Pure Monotheism and ALL SUBMITTED THEIR WILL TO THE CREATOR alone and Directly (meaning of Islam), making them all Muslim by definition.
This every Muslim child knows and even Jews who are supposed to be enemies of Islam lectures this at Israeli Universities.
th-cam.com/video/tw2UbF01BSw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/GJLtu9qpuC4/w-d-xo.html
@@defenderoftruth3212 It's much like evolution of Judaism but in reverse. They started out with numerous gods and gradually reduced it to one. BTW, I mentioned the Book of Elchasai. The "prophet Mani" was a member of Elchasaites since childhood and later started his own religion. If you read about him you'll see that Muhammad was modeled on him. He called himself the Seal of the Prophets and the Paraclete long before Muhammad was born, or made up, whichever it is. His religion, Manichaeism, had a book revealed by an angel, 7 daily prayers, ablutions and a month every year in which they only ate one meal a day. Muhammad reduced the prayers to 5, called the month of fasting Ramadan and removed the vegetarianism, vow of poverty and sexual abstinence. He made it a version that was less demanding in self denial and was accepting of wealth, so it appealed to greedy people who liked eating meat and being sex maniacs, which made it more popular so Islam gradually replaced Manichaeism. That pretty much describes Muslims, don't you think? Greedy meat eating sex maniacs.
Sure. Islam came from many Gnostic sect of Christianity.
Another sect with similar beliefs were called the Nazarenes. They were around a lot longer than the Ebionites so more likely to have influence the Arabs. It's surprising how many different sects there were in the early centuries AD, forming religions was very popular in those days and Muhammad was just one more of that type of person, self proclaimed prophets trying to form their own religion as a variation on prior ones. People didn't have much else to do I guess, there wasn't much for entertainment in those days.
@@RolanRoyce
''People didn't have much else to do I guess, there wasn't much for entertainment in those days.''😅🤣😂WHAT A IDIOTIC THING TO SAY😅🤣😂
EDUCATE YOURSELF
If Muhammad (saw) was just one more of that type of person, self proclaimed prophet trying to form his own religion as a variation on prior ones, then he had to be A GENIUS, as Islam is 2 Billion and growing with FAITHFUL MUSLIMS....
Where are the ''Nazarenes, the Edionites and others''...all extinct😅
I gave you 2 UNBIASED videos from a Jewish Professor who lectures to academics at Israeli Universities, explaining just what you complain about😀
IS HE WRONG?
th-cam.com/video/tw2UbF01BSw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/GJLtu9qpuC4/w-d-xo.html
10:00 son of god not god
Mantap Amen
لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله
I had a vision in which I’ve heard 1500 when I woke up the spirits guided me to open google and I’ve found 1 the Manuscript of Quran in Birmingham museum which is 1500 years old and second the life span of Muslim Ummah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH is 1500 years.
I don’t have the Hadith saved with me as I am left with iPhone 5s at the moment.
Vision dated 11 Jan 2023 *+(🔯✝️☪️
Since you mentioned reference to Jesus as God in the Bible, how do you explain the following self-explanatory verses about who God is?
1 Corinthians 15: 26-28
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Simple, God [Father] gave everything, so Christ [Jesus] is giving back everything to the Father that he might have the same as the Father has READ Jn 17 the whole chapter to gain an understanding.
I appreciate your question, at least you've tried to do some critical thinking. However, that's still below the Christian simple and standard understanding of Christ being God.
When a Christian says Jesus is God, he/she first unders that God is Spirit. Now, God deciding to come to humanity and dwell amongst humanity and doing something significant like exemplify godly life and atone for sin Himself because nothing was pure enough to worth atoning for man's sin but for match, He took on human form/flesh; that human form or flesh is who you now know as Jesus Christ.
When we say Jesus is God we mean the fullness of God dwelled in him. Now since you cited Apostle Paul, let me tell you somethings he said in Colossians 2:9, he said,
'Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.'
He said again in Philippians 2:5-8 that,
'Have the same attitude among yourselves that was also in the Messiah Jesus:
In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.
Instead, poured out in emptiness, a servant's form did he possess, a mortal man becoming. In human form he chose to be,
and lived in all humility, death on a cross obeying.'
John the baptist also said in John 3:31-36 that,
'The one (Jesus) who comes from above is superior to everything. The one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is superior to everything.
He testifies about what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony.
The person who has accepted his testimony has acknowledged that God is truthful.
The one whom God sent (Jesus) speaks the words of God, because God does not give the Spirit in limited measure to him.
The Father loves the Son and has put everything in his hands.
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.'
As Christians, our believe is that Jesus Christ has become the face or identity of God we know, and this believe is not misplaced because He himself said in John 14:9 that,
"The person who has seen me (Jesus) has seen the Father. So how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
There are many more reasons and proofs we can give to validate our believe that Christ is God. If this simple explanation doesn't satisfy you, I'm willing to give you more.
Stay blessed. ❤
@@dudeduderinoduderino9689 Where in the Bible is Christ referred to as the Almighty God?
Why is Christ urging us to worship the Father, as the Father seeks such who worship Him in truth and spirit? (John 4: 23-24)
Where in the Bible is the Holy Spirit referred to as one of three persons?
What does it mean that the Father will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him? (Luke 11: 13)
There are many more questions that can be asked based on the Bible supporting Unitarian view that the Father alone is the Almighty God.
However, that is enough for now.
Could you answer these questions?
@@FoJ-REAPP I already knew that Christ is perfect Son of God, who emulates his Father, the Almighty God, and urges us to strive to do the same, which is the meaning of following Christ and worshipping his Father, the Almighty God.
I am disputing unbiblical doctrines, one of which is the belief that God consists of three co-equal co-eternal persons.
@@tombuddy100 ok, now that you believe the Christ is the perfect son of God by virtue of his perfect nature inherited in bodily form of the Spirit God, you equally must agree that when Christ walked here on earth, it was God walking here on earth. If that is the case, then it means that, the Spirit God manifested or incarnated Himself into man whiles still remaining a separate Spirit God. That manifested God, Jesus Christ, also left the earth alive to where the Spirit God is. Aside these two identifies we have here, Jesus himself referred to another as the Helper who the father and himself will send back to the world to empower his people. Mind you, he didn't say a spirit but The Spirit (specific). Who could this Spirit also be? Can you help me understand what I've just said?
There's a way settle this I must say, its either Christ did not have the perfect nature of God here on earth, and by that he was not perfect as the Father who alone is known to be perfect. It's either Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead and ascended in bodily form. It's either there's not Spirit here on earth now ministering to God's people, in the name of The HolySpirit. But if all the above are true, then God the Spirit, reflected, manifested, incarnated himself in a body called Jesus Christ, making that body equally God, and later dwells on earth again as Spirit whiles still remaining as God the Father, The Spirit.
Counterfeiter and robbing religion
Allah says in Al Quran There are people who are deaf dumb and blind(spiritually). Allah will deal with them.
You think that but it’s not true Islam is only lies
7:13...☪📖✨Ok...first of all, as to 𝐒𝔲𝔯𝔞 𝕸𝖆𝖗𝒚𝖆𝖒, the chapter certainly contains an abundance of earlier Christian traditions, (although in altered form) from several Apocryphal Infancy Gospels, a well as the New Testament ...
..HOWEVER
that is not the case with its last Ayahs 19:91-98 {Birmingham folio)...which in fact have nothing to do with Mary, or Christian legend...but are clearly addressing Muslims, in the Surah's summation...
Word to the wise...Dr. Jay...Due, abandon this silly, anti-historical, "Muhammad was made-up" de-constructionist disaster..while you still can...it is severely damaging your credibility...it is nothing but a cynica,l postmodern, borrow, from atheists..
It has become your own; "Qir'ats: a hole in your narrative"..
Just Face up to it...Fact up to it..
✝Jesus really was .. I Am
and
☪Muhammad (pbuh) ...just really was
Lol you guys are hilarious.
Oh Jay... Remember that radiocarbon dating of mss is NOT reliable. Sometimes we have mss that are exactly dated and the carbon dates are way off. You want to you paleography. For the Birmingham mss, many experts (Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Süleyman Berk of the faculty of Islamic studies at Yalova University, François Déroche of the Collège de France, Mustafa Shah, Senior Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, Marijn van Putten) date it to later (post-Uthmanic) based on the style - grammatical marks and verse separators, chapter separators and dotted verse endings. There is a strong similarity between the script of the Birmingham leaves and those of a number of Hijazi Qurans in the Turkish and Islamic Arts Museum.
Marijn van Putten has published work on idiosyncratic orthography common to all early manuscripts of the Uthmanic text type has stated and demonstrated with examples that due to a number of these same idiosyncratic spellings present in the Birmingham mss, it is "clearly a descendant of the Uthmanic text type" and that it is "impossible" that it is a pre-Uthmanic copy.
💐✝️💐❤️👌🙏
still didn't catch what are you trying to prove !!!!
That the standard islamic narrative is not backed up by any evidence. The claimed Uthmanic coran manuscripts do not exist.
@@heikejohannajahns3257There is no uthmanic Quran
Only Quran from prophet
@@Nahin-iy4cy That is what your ulemma tells you. Coran is examined scientifically since several years and findings are quite interesting. CIRA International provides good information. I recommend the serie : 'creating the q.ran'.
@@heikejohannajahns3257 these are obvious propaganda. No Muslim watch them or consider them as a reliable source of information
@@Nahin-iy4cythen why are you here leaving a comment
Why having similar stories is an issue? If we consider we have the same God, Allah, or Yahweh.
We don’t change manuscripts as what happened to the old and New Testament.
And we did not trust a Paul (Saul) who participated in killing early Christian’s.
So before talking about minor concerns of Islam, check the blocks in Christianity.
✝✝
The latter verse of surah 19 state why the quran was revealed and the consequences of attributing Allah the role of a father. 11 minutes of complete waffle.
Pray and fast don't make yourself better then others
They don't fast. They just eat during the night instead of the day. Muslims actually eat more when 'fasting' for Ramadan.
Dear Christians my brothers in Christ read the Letter of Judas it prophesied Islam and the Muslims the Holy Spirit will give you strength to fight those heresies
The Quran has many stories of the previous religious and their prophets so you know that the religious of God is one God and God is the creator of Adam.
So read the last revelation for your salvation.
Jews have corrupted the bible, Jesus is messiah and prophet of God he is not son of God for God has no son He one and no helper on his kingdom.
*NO DOUBT 100%ISLAM FAKE RELIGION*
1. Yes, the Quran has many *pieces* of Biblical stories, and most of those are so incomplete and/or inaccurate and/or wholly deviant from the original stories.
2. The Quran leaves out so much of the relevant information that it is impossible to know what it is referencing *without going to the Bible* -- e.g., who is Israel? Why does the Q get Abraham's father's name so discombobulated and corrupted? Which Mary is Maryam? Why the name E'isa and not the conventional Arabic name Yesu'a?
2.a. How can you believe that the Bible was somehow corrupted when the Quran says it is God's Word and is therefore protected by him?
3. How could the Jews have corrupted their book but then Muhammad *swore an oath upon it?*
4. When Muhammad swore that oath upon the Torah, why? He was instructed by his god to ask the people *before* about their Scripture (the Book revealed BEFORE); that would *clearly mean* the Christians and the Injeel, NOT the Jews and the Torah! Also, why in Al Lah's name would he even stupidly ask the Jews about Jesus?? DOH!
5. Al Lah says it is impossible for him to have a son (or a daughter) since he has no girlfriend (yes, he literally used the word for girlfriend or female "companion"). What is impossible for Almighty God? Obviously, Al Lah is not omnipotent. According to your scriptures, he can do nothing but whine, moan, and complain.
6. Why does Al Lah instruct YOU to worship none but Al Lah and the Messiah Son of Maryam? Why do you refuse to comply with this order from your god?
So read the LAST revelation for YOUR eternal salvation (that would be the Bible, friend). The Quran admits it cannot be from God as it has *numerous errors* of science, history, revelation, and general knowledge, and even spelling & grammar!
Come back to Christ, for He loves you and wants to save your eternal soul. Only Jesus guarantees this -- Al Lah never does, and both his words and Muhammad's confirm this.
Come back to Christ. He is Lord. ☦
Then why Jews don't believe Jesus son of God.
Every single story of quran is corrupt. It never matches historical events. Rather, it's fictitious.
@@saidmohammed7597 What does that have to do with this? You couldn’t respond, so you deflect.
STOP saying "the prophet". Instead you should say, "THEIR prophet". Or if you want to be more accurate, "their FALSE prophet".
Do False Prophets teach Pure Monotheism?
The Believe in One God -
Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allāh and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants [al-Asbāṭ]1 and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Quran 2:136
@@aaabrams1889 If only you'd read the Bible (but there is no chance you have or will!!) you would have read what God's Word said: “So you believe that there is one God? That’s fine. So do all the devils in hell and shudder in terror!” (James 2)
Let me explain what that means just in case you don't understand: Even Satan and his demons KNOW there is only one God so the fact that a Muslim believes there is only one God, it does not help him have eternal life.
Understand!
The fact that your false prophet (supposedly) taught monotheism is irrelevant.
@@lesliewilliam3777
What can't you understand from the verse in the Quran 2:136 that CLEARLY says;
Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allāh and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants [al-Asbāṭ]1 and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Jesus said; O Israel our Lord is ONE LORD making you WORSE than the Devils as you believe God is triune😅
@@aaabrams1889 Who cares what a book says which was written 600 years after Jesus? I mean, who cares?
You're just another ignorant, uneducated Muslim who has never read the Bible and stupidly wants to irrationally claim that the Qur'an supersedes the Bible, a book he's never read.
As a teacher I would find such arrogance worthy of giving you an F.
The Nazarenes were an early Jewish Christian sect in first-century Judaism. The Gospel of the Nazarenes, is believed by some to be the Gospel described by many commentators as the original teachings of the Nazarene called Christ. Estimated Range of Dating 100-160 A.D. And it totally goes against the crucifixion. The evil church got rid of many early Gospels such as this one.
Gospel of Nazarenes, Lection 33, verses 1-2.
By The Shedding Of Blood Of Others Is No Remission Of Sins.
1. Jesus was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and one of them said unto him: Master, it is said by the priests that without shedding of blood there is no remission. Can then the blood offering of the law take away sin?
2. And Iesus answered: No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
A few people in the Gospels have been menitoned as "the son of Alphaeus". There is also Mary "the wife of Alphaeus".
The original (or at least the first) manuscript we have - Codex Sinaiticus lacks "son of"/"wife of".
The surname could be (and should be) read as "the Alphaeus" = "the Aleppo-ite/Halabite.
So we have: James the Aleppo-ite, Matthew the Aleppo-ite, and Mary (Jesus' mother) the Aleppo-ite. These three would have settled in Aleppo after 70 CE.
So Matthew's gospel was written in Aleppo perhaps 75CE-80CE.
When St Jerome wanted to copy the Gospel of Matthew for the Christian New Testament in 390 CE, he went to see the Nazarenes at Aleppo, as they held the original Gospel of Matthew.
Quran (of the Nazarenes) calls this Gospel 'the Injeel'.
Umar the Nazarene took his oath at Jerusalem on the Torah. There was no Quran as a tome during Umar's time. That possibly came into being after 750 CE.
@@vicmath1005
My channel shows how Qur'an was compiled. The Bible is not for today.
@@vicmath1005
Jesus called that non-jewish woman a dog in Matthew 15.24-26 and Mark 7;26-27 for being a non-Jew. Get the hint
@@JesusisaMuslim the Quran was Compiled and the Church got rid of it because it’s just literal heresy
@@JesusisaMuslim no he just talked about the dogs they had
They are many Christians who fast who pray but Muslims will not say that ,To make themselves feel better .
And that is Sin do you know that ?
Point 👉 finger on others is Sin .
The are many Muslims who are not following but Christians don't point 👉 .My brothers not matter what religion we are. One God and only one created all of us .
So if you like or not we are still brothers and we should respect that. Fasting and praying is the only way for forgiveness and is stated in Babile in Koran it is same .
Born Christian or Muslim don't make you automatically believer unless you are practicing .
So pray pray cry to God for mercy on us.and stop hating one another.!!!
God bless you all and Jesus said
My peace with you .
Amen
Imagine pretending to find something in doing so trying to makes lies true ? I mean what wouldn't they do or what ain't they capable of ha? Plus I wonder what tea they used to stain them to make them look old ha? Enough said 🙏🏻
Imagine pretending to find something in doing so trying to makes lies true ? I mean what wouldn't they do or what ain't they capable of ha? Seriously plus I'm positive not only did I read it but saw news reporting of it with reporters outside the restaurant where these piece's of paper were supposedly found behind plasterboard whilst refurbishing a Indian restaurant toilet ishhhroom ok and I'm positive of what I say to the extent if anyone can get those news reporting on it since goggle has been paid to take them all down I'll pay 10k English for those news reports I'm a man of my words ok seriously I mean what next ? Seriously what next ha? Plus all involved in and around those pieces of paper etc go check the names behind it all apart from the 1 or 2 who were paid off ok but the rest of the names go see ok seriously this is just phewwww man this sort of desperation is very sick and ill and bad as you CANNOT MAKE A LIE INTO THE truth ok NO YOU CANNOT imagine Birmingham UK a hotspot of many many different abduls ha? Need I say anymore ???
You r gonna be punished very soon if u don't be surrendered to the Almighty ALLAH. Stay with peace and Truth. Perfect Believer's will be winner.
They blame more islam spread more❤❤❤❤❤❤
Holy Muses , Holy Jesus and after Holy Nobi Eliajah is a prophet of God !!
allah MECCA TI' SCAM 100%√√😇
I knew it
The modern form of Islamic paganism was a very recent creation. Only a few decades old, maximum.
What kind of Hypocrite are you - you speak about paganism AND YOU GOT THE BIGGEST GRAVEN IMAGE THE MOTHER OF god.
Folios - A question - which ones are Islamic, the fake and falls ones ?
Without lies islame dies
For what are the Muslims getting so hyped up 🎉🎉🎉
And why do you call him "Jesus" it's Yeshua pbuh? The Arab Christians have it right. Yesua pbuh in the Arabic Bible. The name "jesus" was a church construct in 1630. Yep, another edit because God couldn't your book right the first time.
When Jews failed Mosses mission and Jews became with no land then God sent Jesus to Jews but they killed him and told the west Jesus is son if god and died in your sin to came out from their crime.
For that fail Moses and killed Jesus who came to lost sheep of Israel God cut the prophet hood to Issac Israeli and sent to Ishmael Muhammad with the Quran as the last revelation.
Read Quran for your salvation.
Who is allah,who is mohammed so called prophet did not did any prophecy and first and last prophet of allah,one of the 360 idols in the kaba with three daughters latha, ussa, manatha and one son called essa. Book of quran is the satanic verses.
NEVER SALVATION IN ISLAM😇
Have YOU actually read the Quran -- and *understood* it?? It seems you have not. Tell me, please: where does a woman's sperm/semen come from?
That's what Jews said to Jesus there is no salvation in the Injil not they went futher to kill him.
Jews don't believe in Jesus no in bible but believe on their old book Torah and their prophets Moses. The rejected the salvation of jesus just like many now reject the salvation of Muhammad and Quran.
@@saidmohammed7597 1. Where did you read what the Jews said to Jesus? What even is "Injeel" to them? That's not even a word, not until 600 years later, when it first appeared in the Quran.
2. Jews believe in the 1st part of the Bible - what we call the Old Testament, which is mainly the Torah (the Pentateuch, or the 5 books of Moses, plus some of the other revelations such as Isaiah), the Talmud, and (for some) the Mishna.
3. Where does Muhammad offer salvation at all? He clearly said that he cannot, that he is only a messenger, and that even he didn't know whether he would see Paradise.
You mean un-Islamic Quran?
@@defenderoftruth3212 akhi I can't still believe people take him seriously
Jay Smith is jealous. Them manuscripts match the Qur’an today. Christianity is relying on 4th century Greek manuscripts written by unknown writers in another country. Christianity is a 4th century Greek theatre production.
If Momo had a book it would have been a porno book..The dirty sex pest rapist..
😂👍🏻
As opposed to an epileptic,demon possessed,murdering,Child pdfile..??
🤦♂MADARSA GRADUATE
Wrong. These 4th century "manuscripts" are complete Bibles. The oldest Christian manuscripts date back to the early 2nd century.
😂😂😂😂😂😂33 verse’s is the age Jesus died 33
Jay smith again.. this guy lied a lot already...n deceitful too
Is Jay getting old and senile by saying; ''The Birmingham Folios aren’t Islamic?!?'''
NO NO don't 😭😭😢🤧 PLZ
This is what the Birmingham Foliis contain:
a) The 7 Sleepers of Ephesus
(Christian, 6th century)
b) Proto-Evangelium of James
(Christian, 2nd century)
c) Pseudo Gospel of Matthew
(Christian, 7th century)
d) Story of Moses
(Jewish, 5th century BC)
=> Nothing is Islamic
@@firstnamesecondname852
Educate yourself as yu don't know what ISLAM is and think that Mohammad (saw) copied and came up with a new religion.😅🤣😂
All the Prophets were Muslim.
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th-cam.com/video/GJLtu9qpuC4/w-d-xo.html
There you go J has just mentioned about carbon dating so he needs to stop talking bs
Your post made no sense. What was he wrong about?
Abyan khant 🤫🤫🤫🤡🤡🤡🤡.
I suggest you rematch brother
QURAN IN 🧠🧠 OUT
All that shows is the date range that the animal was killed, not when the ink was applied.
❤️👍
Heard nothing that discredits the Quran lol
The Quran were always scattered around like this until Uthman during his reign decided to compose in 1 book because alot of Hafiz(those who memorize the quran from A to Z) died in wars. So the arguments from the grandpa kinda weak from a Muslim POV.
So, this was one of the bits that missed the fire? Funny that it happens to tell a well known 6th century story and not something ‘unique’ t-ó the Koran, hard as that would be to find.
@@justaminute3111 Islam is Abrahamic religion 3.0. Its not a new religion. Muslim even call the older gen prophets as Muslim as well. That include prophet Jesus n Moses. Muslim just means those who submit to the one true God. So same old story retell just bits variation.
666 likes lolol.
Birmingham was a Qur'an, not other..
⚡⚡ SCHOLARS SPENT £2,000,000,000 LOOKING FOR A MISTAKE IN THE HOLY AL-QURAN (AMAZING...fadi& Smith 🤣) @ DANIEL DRURY/BOBBY'S PERSPECTIVE ⚡⚡
The Quran is a divine scripture that serves as a criterion to validate or invalidate previous scriptures or historical narrations. So the Quran either confirms or correct what is found in the Torah or Injeel.
Prove it devine scripture?? To kill jews and christians? To enjoy with women? Alla with 2 hands and a leg.. handicap alla? Pedophilia is allowed in kuran???? Sleep with others wives allowed???
At the end the kuran is KAMA SUTRA book.
And you call devine? Bulshit... you and your people are deceived by alla and mohamed. Infact alla is devil
No, it's a compilation of Jewish and Christian sources (which aren't even scriptures) dumped into old arabic stories.
@@firstnamesecondname852
Dear Brother,
The stories maybe similar but not the same. It is similar because it came from the same god. The Quran is meant to rectify the corruption in the previous scriptures.
@@mohamadromzee7394 The Koran copied parts of the Jewish Talmud and Christian Apocrypha. None of them are considered as scriptures.
Scriptures are the Jewish Old Testament and the Christian New Testament.
What you don't even realize is that the majority of the stuff in the Quran that were copied from Christian and Jewish sources came from folklore, literally made up fairy tales that contradict the stories in the Bible. We even know who wrote them, when they were written, and why they were written. The Quran is telling us that those stories are true? Your "prophet" had no idea, did he?
And let's not forget the shabir ally debate
The claim that Jesus is God is not what Jesus taught.
It is blasphemous against God and against what Jesus believe.
Right...rather remain a Stone kisser in 2023..the wisdom of allah
Jesus taught that He is God: He was literally crucified for this claim. Moslems just refuse to admit how wrong & spiritually blind they are.
Aaron your religion is made up of the torra and the bible and your pagan religion you have basically taken the word’s out to suit your own narrative which being Islam and the q.ran. Pagan religion. Moon god worshippers. You follow a man who married a 6 year old girl 👧. How sick 😷 is that. Repent before it’s too late ⏰. ✝️☝️✝️.
The subject is Birmingham folios. I can understand your disappointment, but jumping on a completely unrelated topic shows pure desperation. The typical Muslim procedure...
If you were not as uneducated as your lying role models Deedar and Naik, you would surely know what the original Aramaic Bible says:
*"But Yeshua said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, and you shall behold The Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of Heaven.” (Mark 14:62)*
The same applies to Matthew 14:27, Mark 6:50, Luke 22:70, John 4:26, 6:20, 8:24, 8:58, 13:19 and 18:5-6.
And this only refers to the New Testament. - THIS is what Jesus taught!
@@Indah-tjs
Instead of feeding your biased appetite against muslims, tell that to the many christians commenting unrelated to the topic.
Nobody really cares about that Manuel script 😂because the quran that the world has now is completely intact and good enough for all muslims...so you guys sounds ridiculous 😂🎉
It is not intact because there was never an actual Quran to start with
Cry christian cry
Bible is not historically accurate
Cry christian
Jesus is only a messenger of God@@ImperatortotiusHispaniae
@@Nahin-iy4cy Ignorance is Bliss
@@ImperatortotiusHispaniae Yeah for Christian pagans
@@Nahin-iy4cyironic since you guys worship a rock in your holiest sites
Allah knows what lies you spread
Dear , brother,, understand QORAN IS THE FINAL TESTAMENT FROM OUR LORD .
Let me teach you little math here : set N is in set Z is in set D. ... In set i (complex number)
I,e) Tawrat is in Zabur Psalm is in Injil Gospel is in Qoran.... Simple math logic 😁😂🤣🤣.
Why would be surprised to find a story from Tawrat in Qoran...
The thing u must be thinking why 😢 you will be focusing on following one set of the reality (Torah or Gospel).Hence there is the last final set that combined all reality (Qoran), means there's a part of reality you are missing.
This weirdo
Not entirely, although many people consider the Bible a fiction because when they read it, they believe they can recognise fictional elements in the Bible. Once, most people would have studiously overlooked the evidence and accepted the words of their churches, but there is now a trend for people to use their ability to think. They now realise that most of the Bible consists of myths, legends, folklore and religious propaganda-in other words, fiction. Some parts of the Bible that were once asserted to be literally true are often now described as symbolic, but only because it is no longer possible to sustain an argument that they are literally true. Other parts, such as the Books of Job, Daniel and Esther, were written as novels and only later began to be assumed as histories.
Burton L. Mack, in Who Wrote the New Testament, calls Mark’s Gospel a fiction that could not have been conceived before the war. On Acts of the Apostles, Hans Joachim Schoeps writes in Das Judenchristentum, cited in English by Uta Ranke-Heinemann in Putting Away Childish Things:
Acts is only a retrospective view of Christian origins written by one party - the winners. Anyone used to evaluating texts critically has no choice but to rate it as a document of the second or even third Christian generation. Acts follows a clear didactic line and for this reason energetically cultivates the creation of legends and reshapes persons and events according to its own standards.
No one cares, ismail khatri. Christians have their religion that is valid for them & you can believe as you wish. The problem with islam & muslims is that they become violent when their faith is questioned which means they are not sure islam is even true. Christians are strong in their faith & do not care what anyone thinks.
U butt hurt and now pulling rubbish out of yr orifice...suck it up
🙄
Ismail Khatri It seems you're embarrassed by these discoveries.. First of all you should be embarrassed more by your most obvious false prophet in history; an Arabian caravan robber, a child molester and the most evil character presented by your most authentic Islamic sources..
Do you apply this same thinking to the Quran?
These two apologists try so hard to sound smart but fail so miserably when understanding the facts!