Air Handler, Centerline Plenum Transition and Return Air Installation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- A simple electric air handler is installed in this video. Step by step you can see the project come together with each stroke of the hammer. An almost continual description of the work being performed is given at each step. Almost all the assembly during the video is running in FFwd mode to keep the video within a reasonable length. Many times, speeding up the recording shows HOW something takes shape better than the slow normal speed of the actual work. The only other way to shorten a video is to cut out a portion of the work and that does no one any good. That's MY personal opinion, yours may vary. At any rate, if a viewer wants to see it slower, it has been brought to my attention that you as the viewer have that capability on screen. So those that want to watch it slower have that option as well.
Bear in mind this video is not suggesting this is the only way to install a particular piece of equipment. It's only one way of hundreds of ways it could be accomplished. If I were to install another identical air handler tomorrow there is ZERO chance it would be exactly like this because the requirement for connection would be different. It's just the way it is. I made one big mistake while installing the return air drop....one I never make when installing a job. I didn't notice it until it was too late, and only the experienced installer will catch what it is that was not copesthetic. I can blame the mistake on concentrating on the video too much and not on the project. Yeah...we'll go with that.
This house is a total re-hab project...actually a total re-BUILD. My cousin bought it in foreclosure and dismantled it stick by stick, salvaged all the materials possible and built all new one-level sub-floors over the crawl space to level out multi-level floors of the previous decades. He then totally redesigned the entire house and used the existing materials to build a modern home adding a two car garage at the same time. The only portion of the original structure that was not dismantled was the sub-floor directly above this tiny cellar in which the air handler is sitting. The old duct work was salvaged and then re-installed by him throughout the whole crawl space beyond this block wall. Because it is a crawl space he used the double Mylar covered bubble wrap to insulate the whole system after this portion of the job was completed.
This video is primarily for those that are either just interested in how some ductwork adaptions are installed OR those who may be in the field and wanting to learn more about the installation side of the HVAC industry. It's not really for experienced guys that have a good handle on this segment. It will be either totally boring to them or possibly a source of entertainment because they know much better an easier way to accomplish the task.
Hopefully whatever category you are in there was a bit of entertainment for you....and if you are a skeptical 'pro'...please note that its the confident person that admits there is never only one way to do anything. Its the end result that counts.
This is the guy you wanna work with and learn. Graduated AC school and it would have been awesome to learn this craft with you sir
Thanks Eddie for the awesome comment !! I don't do much at all with sheet metal any more. But that's ok. A guys just gotta learn when its time to 'pass the torch' on to the next generation.
13 year hvac guy, damn u ain't wrong good tech, crap sheet metal
Wendell i love watching your hvac videos, as i have installed a few myself for over 50 yrs and trained a few guy's thinking they wanted to learn hvac business. Watching you is like watching Bob Ross painting a masterpiece. THANK GOD FOR ZIP SCREWS!!!
I remember the first day hanging duct with an old guy back in the mid 70's. I'd hold an 8' piece of trunk line as he would use a punch to poke a hole in the hanger and bottom of the duct then run in a pan head with a flat screw driver. THEN I got a better job in the big city. The guy that owned the company gave me a Black and Decker VSR electric drill, a 50' cord and a NUT RUNNER. I asked him what that was for.... LOL. He handed me a 500 count box of 1/4' x 3/4 hex head zip screws and like they say...the REST is history. LOL. Good GAWD...I thought I'd died and went to heaven !!!
A couple years later a buddy bought a 7.2 volt Makita battery drill. What an incredible discovery that was. I'm sure Tom, that you remember all those kind of things as well. Thank you for taking the time to always make the best of comments !! The Bob Ross part really cracked up the Missus...
Awesome memories. I always felt so grateful for being younger. I started in in 2005 at 22 yrs old
Agree with all the comments pure craftsmanship and speed, it would take me a whole day, bleeding hands and I'd probably end up wrapping the thing with aluminum tape.
Hahahaha...that's funny. Thank you for both the kind words and the smile this morning. But I'm sure you would fare much better than you describe. By the way, if you enjoy sheet metal videos, there are a few sheet metal fabrication and installation videos up in the PLAYLIST heading like this one: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html You may find a bit of entertainment in these. Thank you for the kind comment as well.
You are skilled sir. I’m a service technician and whenever we do system swaps the plenum modifications is what takes me the longest by far. Looking forward to more videos to learn from so I can improve. Thank you!
Thanks Lou for the supportive comment. I too am a retired service tech. The last 20, 25 years most all commercial service, start ups, and building automation. Tons of DDC control conversions on older existing RTU's. If you want to see a good series, check this one out: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html I have several sheet metal vids contained in playlists above.
A true professional. Pretty sure everyone could learn something from this man's work.
Thanks for the cool comment Jimmy !! I have TONS of sheet metal videos up in the playlists. Here's a good one if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/IObgZ5gYWIE/w-d-xo.html The first 6 or so are boring straight duct, but from the 7th on down there's a lot of fittings, offsets, plenums and return air fittings with filter slot. I hope to see you around !! Thanks again for watching.
I was taught to remove the coil and secure the AH to the pedestal by screwing the cabinet down. Would hate to have screwed the brackets into the drain pan...
I am interested in the mistake mentioned in your video description. I watched the video a few times and haven't caught it.
I think I do avoid mistakes pretty well. When I inevitably do make one I actually like telling others so they might have less chance of dealing with the same self inflicted issue later, in a hot attic, tight crawlspace, whatever their case might be.
Not asking for you to spill all the beans yet.
Screwing the ah down that way wouldn't be advisable. Imo. Visible connections are usually the best. Plenty of duct work that could be re used years later gets destroyed during change outs due to hidden screws.
Just gotta know where to look or when to take a deep breath and find that last screw. It's like screwing a air cleaner to the side of a furnace from the inside. The worst is when walls and ceilings are built burying the unit so screws cannot be reached. I can remove the coil if I'm changing the AH anyway. The carrier AH s we use have a filter rack on the bottom and then the drain pan. Also I will trace the opening instead of measuring it. Brackets would be a mile long up the side of the unit. I understand what you're saying condorman it is best to have things as easy to access as possible. That's why we put these units in stinking attics and such ugh!
@@condorman26 I've been guilty in the past of putting screws in hard to find places out of necessity. I keep a Vaughn flat bar thinned out on a belt sander to slip way back inside an otherwise inaccessible location to shear off the screws with a few hard hits. I have had some bad ones back in the day too. The flat bar can reach to halfway across a plenum to shear one off that was installed from the inside out. LOL. I hated damaging more than necessary during demo. It just adds to the work load going back in with new. Out of that frustration, my mind is always on the next guy coming in down the road to undo what I'm doing currently.
@@andrecontois8510 Man, I have literally pulled my hair out back in the 70's early 80's tearing out first generation forced air furnaces. It seems like 24 ga was standard fare back then and all the returns were dove tail...screws were a lot of times a #12 pan head. This was before hex heads and nut runners were even thought of. Nothing kills speed like backing out #12's with a flat screwdriver when you can't get square onto it. That's where I came up with the thinned down Vaughn flat bar for demo jobs. Works great.
Attachment to the bottom is determined by the way the different brands are constructed. This brand here has those 4 perfectly located assembly screws that allow screwing in to the sides like I did with no potential of jeopardizing the integrity of the drain pan. Others require attachment as you describe. No matter if the unit has a bottom mount filter or not, because I incorporate a filter slot that holds a standard size filter on virtually every job. A lot of those filters are not easily replaced with an off the shelf filter. Home owners always seem to neglect them if they are not easily replaceable.
Ok....about the mistake. Not a big deal, but I insist on always aligning my pittsburghs all in line, but not paying attention, the top duct is reversed from bottom duct and you'll see the resultant crooked bend of the drive right at the 18:00 minute mark. Now it sticks out like a sore thumb !! I like sharp, crisp bends and insist on trimming the sharp points off the drives as they are folded over. It just trims the job out to look nicer overall. It's like taking a rag and wiping the pipe dope off all the exposed gas line fittings.... just looks trimmed out much better.
Above I referred to 'first generation forced air' furnaces. I got into the field in the mid 70's and a lot of forced air furnaces at that time were nearing 20 years old but there were still many, many gravity furnaces still in service. I tore out dozens and dozens of gravity furnaces with the spider web of 10'' or 12'' round pipes going at an angle from the round bonnets to interior side wall cast iron registers. A single large 16x30 return air grill was on the outside wall in a living room. We then would convert all the interior s/a grilles into return air grills and cut all new 4''x12'' supply's on the exterior walls thoughout the houses. Are you two guys, Condorman and Andre, old enough to have been involved in these types of change outs ? Heck, back then I was still removing the old coal stokers up in St Louis and outlying areas and installing Natural Gas 'upshot' or 'inshot' conversions. Some had belt drive blowers, some were still gravity coal. If you are both too young, you really missed a lot of fun !! Seriously, it was just some really cool work to be involved in. Damn....I see instead of a comment, I wrote a book...sorry guys. LOL
Great install, Tractorman44. Today's rookies would throw a flex connection on the supply and return to compensate for there inability to measure with precision.Thxs for the vids!
I have used flex connections commercially in the past but only as vibration isolation. I don't remember ever using them in a residential application unless hanging a unit from the trusses in an attic, but that too would've been for vibration isolation. But I have seen a lot of them on units while on service calls. Thanks David for the comment !!
@@tractorman4461
Thats what they used at my house to do a hvac replace job. They do have good sheet metal guys. They designed a filter spot at the shop for a air bear glassflo type filter 5" thick in the return L .
But they used the flex boots on both return air and presure air sides.
Almost no sheet metal work was done at the house.
@@bobbg9041 Yes, there really isn't anything wrong with flex connectors, as they provide a specific benefit to an installation. The most important thing about your change-out was the addition of the filter slot for the special filter. I'm not familiar with that particular filter, but I'm assuming its an expanded surface pleated filter. Sounds like you are enjoying a dust and pollen free indoor space !!
Outstanding work ! I,m an old-school tinner like you even down to snipping the corners on the drive-cleats. 30-plus yrs. for me.Still at it.
That's cool William. I'm in the middle of a nasty job for my son right now. So that's going to be a good three or four videos in a series. Air handler, all new duct in a renovation project, adding a wood fired furnace and motorized back draft dampers in the supply plenum of the air handler and in the short trunk line from the wood furnace.
I've got a couple sheet metal playlists put together up top if you are interested. They really aren't geared for experienced guys, but if you just like watching sheet metal videos, be my guest. Thank you for the compliment up above !!
Good Job!!!
Glad to see you liked it !! Thanks for watching. If you like sheet metal videos, I have a couple playlists of sheet metal only up above. Here's a good one: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html
Very nicely done Sir. A pleasure to see how the finish product is produced. Thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment Joe. I don't usually get to record one going in because I don't want to show someones basement. But this one was my cousins during a re-build of the whole house.
I was not bored one bit...old tin men know there is more than one way to skin a cat. Those interested in installation should listen to your reasoning and let the conditions of the job dictate the build and assembly. Its funny I put so many yrs into it and still like watching it go together. And if your talking about what I think you are...lol... will not say a word.
Hahahahaha.....you're right. The job is what determines how it wants to go together. If you don't listen to it talking to you from the start...you're in for a fight start to finish !! Been there, done that and try to not make that mistake anymore. LOL... Thank you for the supportive comment !! Enjoy the slight warm snap we seem to be in right now.
I want to say this is the most amazing instruction video i have seen on a furnace this is amazing..
Thank you Edward for showing your appreciation in such an awesome comment. If you like metal work, I do have a couple playlists of sheet metal only up above in the PLAYLIST heading. If you'd like to see a difficult fabrication and installation, you could try this one: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html or just random sheet metal projects: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html Thanks again for watching !!
Excellent work. I always enjoy watching your videos too see what Mr.44 is up to.
Thanks Ramon....there's always something else stuck in the chute !! I'm trying like the devil to catch up on the backlog. It ain't working too good.
The Bob Ross of ductwork.
I guess he was another hairy and ugly old guy....?? LOL. Thank you for the compliment and yes, I know he was an awesome painter. Thanks again Derick and have a wonderful evening !!
Thanks for the sheet metal videos you are a true craftsman. Like how you showed how stuff is done in the field vs a shop setting. I just did a job and premade a 4 inch spacer on an oil furnace to keep it above the heat exchanger. Then tied into the plenum with s cleat. It worked out great takes a lot more skill than ductboard. We don't have access to Pittsburgh seam here in field. Was shown to leave the s cleat an inch long top and bottom then notch a layer out so you can hammer them around and hide the gaps.
Oh, I can tell you dozens of tricks I've used over the years with S's and drive cleats. I have bent many a plenum on the floor of a basement back in the day....I don't want to have to go back to that. I've also made hand made pittsburghs too. But no more. Asdasda, if you like the 'on site' portions, check out this playlist a little at a time if you'd like. It was a tough one: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html
Thank you so much for this info. I enjoy watching a true craftsman at work. Ill be installing a lil 42K BTU gas furnace for a friend of mine. Doing the pipework, electrical and all that is old hat. Doing that Smithy work is something Ive done very lil of. You gave away a lot of valuable tips and tricks. Your effort is much appreciated.
Well John Boy, I figure if a guy like me can figure out how to do it most anybody can. LOL It takes a little while though if you take pride in the end product. So many guys want to slam it in and get gone with the money in their pocket. A few tools make a big difference. But they are out there in almost every town across America...just sitting in a shed or garage collecting dust. Good luck with your project and I am glad to have you stop by. If you have time,might wanna look at this playlist: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html There should be something like 17 videos in this series and its pretty comprehensive.
Good job Wendel, you sure your handle isn't Tinman44. Lol
Hahahahaha....good one Mark. That's funny. Thankfully 99% of all that work is behind me now. I'm hoping to spend much more time with the old tractors....one of these days. LOL.
Just like magic...great video
Hahahahaha...you, my friend are much too kind !! Thank you Raymond for taking a looksee...hope you enjoyed it.
Nice work looks tight and clean. I wish i had a teacher like you for my tin work.
Thanks Rocko for the nice comment. I spent lot of time figuring out how to use the machines to produce an adequate product. As a young service tech, I used to inspect closely any kind of fancy duct joints, bends and fittings to better understand how the old timer laid them out. I have a real nice project going on right now. Some real cool metal on a total system retrofit, complete with motorized backdraft dampers for an air handler and wood fired furnace.
you sir are the bob ross of HVAC
I am glad you enjoyed the install....and thanks for the compliment !! Want to see more..?? I got a ton of 'em up in the playlists under sheet metal. Like this one here: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html Enjoy!!
hi neat watching you work at your different projects . you have a lot of knowledge and use it well . take care john
Well, the jobs are easy as long as the tape measure don't lie to me..... LOL. thanks for the kudos John.
@@tractorman4461 well the tapes do lie but have more problem with brain storage and retrieval john
Fascinating and very informative, practical information. Great job, thank you!
Thank you for the very complimentary comment. If you enjoy sheet metal and have the time, consider checking out one of the playlists I've put together at the top of the page. Like this one: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html It was a tough one for sure.
Great job. As a retired HVAC service tech, I'd ask how or who is going to insulate this? Nobody wants to insulate duct inside (1AL) anymore. The shop can insulate ductwork 10 times faster than it can be done in the field in my opinion.
@@thesearcherman6652 I agree. I like insulating in the shop as well. Iirc on this project the owner was to bubble wrap the duct system. He had installed all the duct and my job was to only tie into the s/an and r/a as you saw in the video. If I’d had done the whole job it would have been a bit different.
Love these videos best on TH-cam I’ve found!!!
Thank you sir for the kind comment. Have you by chance looked at the two sheet metal playlists I put up top ? Take care and I hope you are staying busy !! Spring Check and Service time is right around the corner. PM's cut off the peaks and fill the valleys at the same time.
@@tractorman4461 no but I’ll take a look now thank you. I learn a lot from watching you work, lots of tips and tricks you just can’t learn from reading or google.
@@ccssk8er123 I think that's why I talk all the time the hammer isn't moving. Its the combination of the two that can deliver it in better fashion.
Skill! Modern World Skill from a day gone by! thank ou tractorman44!
The thanks goes to you and the other viewers for taking the time out of your day to watch !! I DO appreciate it.
I like your improvised can opener. I learn something new every time I watch you work.
Something that I always remember fondly is my Dad Showing me the use of the left and right hand aviation shears.
That might be a nice thing for you to add in to one of your metal fabrication vids or you might have enough to make a stand alone. Lord knows there are a bunch of designs for shears. Some I use and most I just wonder about.
I did make a little video just about scratch awl selection but never edited it yet. Snips are a different story. Reds, greens, yellows, cantilevers, shears, double cuts....the newer aluminum with replaceable cutting edges and the old steel ones....Oh yeah. Then there's the regulars vs. the offsets...which by the way I could never use. They have that offset to elevate the handles, but then you have to bend your wrist to counter the offset. So in no time, my wrists hurt. Yes, I gave them away in no time. LOL. Thanks for stopping by for a visit today !!
@@tractorman4461 I always watch. Sometimes I can't add to the discussion so I just enjoy the show. 😁😎
@@OldSneelock I don't know how you find the time. I am so covered up with just trying to keep up and am still running literally months behind on videos. But I sincerely thank you for the time you dedicate to watching and commenting.
I have a 3/4 acre lot, no job, all I do is play with tools and feed the dog. Pretty easy life for a guy use to working 12 hour days and driving an hour and a half each way to work. It takes a while to slow down.
2020 was the first real retirement year. I was doing consulting work 6 months a year and going all over the country.
@@OldSneelock Well, the virus thing put a bit of a damper on my public activities a bit. So having a lot more shop time in 2020 I did also get the time to solve some of my own mysteries languishing on the back shelf here at home for a change. Still way below water, but at least I'm gaining on it.
You've probably heard this before but you are like the Bob Ross of sheet metal. I mean that with the most respect. Thank you.
Hahahahahahaha...yeah, Bob Ross had a pile of hair too didn't he... LOL. Thank you for the kind comment and I DO take that as a supreme compliment. Btw...up on my tool bar there is a couple playlists that are sheet metal only..if you are interested that is.
Great analogy! He has that very calm demeanor and you know that he knows what he's doing.
This is one of the best instructional videos I have seen on You Tube. This guy is a pro.
Well now, that comment raises the bar a little high for a old fat guy to clear. But I thank you for the very kind words Chazden. But if you do enjoy the metal videos and have the time, try checking out this playlist, its one of several that are mostly sheet metal layout, fabrication and installation: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html If you kinda like to read, on some videos I expand greatly on the content of the video in the description box.
44 wish I was skilled at that but not enough time left to become proficient
God Bless All
PaK
Aw heck, Peter....never too old to learn !! It's just kinda fun to play with when there's nothing else to get into !! LOL. Thanks for hanging in there my friend !
I like how you explain what you are doing as you go... and why you are doing it that way.
Good Morning Gary. A picture paint a thousand words, but words along with the picture make it much more easily understandable....at least I think so. Thanks for watching and I'm sure the snow is all but gone up there. It's muddy as the devil down here. Take care my friend.
Yes a true professional! Like a Bob Ross but of the HVAC’ trade.
Hahahahaha....cracks me up there. I USED to be a bit more hairy like him, but that's the only comparison I can make. LOL Thanks for the smile and I hope you check out that playlist I gave you. There are others too.
Sir GREAT GREAT VIDEO AND INFO AND JOB!!!!! Sir do you live near North Carolina because this is something exactly what I need done to my system? You could not find folks like you no more it’s impossible.!! Thanks
No, only about 5-600 miles from there in Missouri. LOL I'm sure there are some old guys hiding in the bushes you don't know about. I was fortunate insofar as I LOVED doing my job. It didn't hardly seem like going to work most times.
Great work. That’s amazing. Greetings from Puerto Rico 💪🏼
Thanks Miguel for the awesome comment. If you enjoy sheet metal, here's a tough one that has a lot of fittings and is a difficult install too. Its a complete job playlist from start to finish in an attic: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html
Outstanding sir.! I hope the youngsters take note, that's the only way to cut corners..👍💛👍
Thanks for watching and making such an awesome comment D.J. Check out this playlist if you want a little more: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html There are a couple other playlists up top too. Thanks again !!
Very informative and precise. Best of all simple to understand
Thanks for the nice comment. This one was pretty staightforward and simple. If you want to see a bit more of a complicated project, skip through a few of these: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html
I'm a retired metal worker from local 48, Birmingham, Al. U seem to have a great background of fabrication process, only question I have u used a soft joint on return air, why not include this procedure on supply duct instead of hard hookup, but great job, u had some good teaching also
Thanks David for the compliment on the project. I usually don't use flex connectors on residential systems as small as this little 2 ton with 800 cfm. The video may have been misleading in appearance because of the angle of the camera, but the return was a flange connection, screwed into the side of the furnace. And that lower fitting was a r/a 90* with a built in 1'' filter slot. Thanks again for the nice words.
Enjoyed watching the video on the installation . The Rehab Addict, Nicole Curtis, is one of my favorite shows to watch, so would have been interesting to see the rehab on this house. See you on the next project!
Yes, you would have enjoyed to see what it was and what it has become. My cousin lives in a small lake community with roughly 67 landowners owning homes. If I remember correctly, this is close to the 30th one he has either bought and totally rebuilt or rehabbed for existing inhabitants. My daughter bought one (before I started you tubing) from him when he was partially finished with it. I didn't even think to take a lot of pictures before and just a few during, but we have turned her house into a really nice home.
We bought it as soon as he finished the siding and the interior wall relocations and some basic wiring. We then roofed it, wired it the rest of the way, plumbed it, hung the drywall, installed new HVAC system ducts furnace and a/c, (it only had window units and baseboard heaters), hardwoods throughout, new cabinets, deck, sewer system, tons of wood work and landscaping. I recently did a 'redo' of a video highlighting some of the wood work including a walnut hand rail from her Great grandfathers Hotel and Mercantile built in 1882. We used a lot of walnut lumber we sawed off the home place in '75 for utility room cabinet and bathroom vanity doors. I've just been hesitant to upload it. Whoa...I got carried away.... LOL.
I am smart enough and educated and have worked many hard labor jobs. But I have never set an air handler. I have a new air handler that weighs 200+pounds. Will that standard type of air return plenum box hold over 200 Lbs.? It looks so light and crushable. Anyway I have no experience with these things so any intelligent input would be helpful.
That must be a monster air handler Matt. I've never come across one quite that heavy. But if this box was made from 24 gauge material with reinforced corners, I don't think there would be a problem at 200 pounds. Most air handlers up to five ton blower capacity weigh less than a hundred pounds. Gas furnaces are heavier and still at only 26 gauge, this style box has no problem. Good luck with your project Matt.
Great work! Are you up for a similar job in Virginia...?
Hahahahaha....thirty years ago I agree it'd be a fun weekend trip for me and the Missus. LOL. Not so much now a days. I'm sure you'll get it taken care of though.
My furnace currently has a 1 inch slot for a 16x25 filter and the space between the furnace/handler and the vertical return looks to be very similar to this one (4.25 inches). Is it ok to cut open that space, reinforce it, and add tracks so I can use a 4" filter instead of a 1"? I wasn't sure if there needed to be a certain distance between the 90 and the filter for it to work properly.
I'm hoping to use a 4" filter for less pressure loss, as my furnace can only currently reliably run with the 1 inch green/blue fiberglass for more than a few days. Thanks
Normally there would be no problem with adjusting the opening as you suggest. However, if your furnace won't continue to operate normally with much accumulation on a 1'' filter, it may be suffering from a lack of return air. All 4'' filters are going to be 'pleated' filters with a much better capability of catching dust particulate. I'm thinking that the pressure drop across the much thicker physical dimension of the 4'' filter will cause the same problem you describe almost immediately. It seems by your description that your system is suffering from a lack of return air due to improper duct sizing or just not enough openings in the walls or floor to carry the required air back TO the furnace. Either one will cause a shortage of air.
You have to have a minimum of air entering the bottom of the heat exchanger to maintain proper operation within the designed limits of the temperature rise...which is typically 70*F. A shortage of air will cause the burner (gas furnace) to cycle on its 'limit' switch, meaning the temperature rise is too high....not enough air to transfer heat to as it passes across the heat exchanger. If what I described is what's happening, the only way to remedy it would be to allow more access to actual return air from the living space...then the pressure drop will be less and the thicker more efficient filter would work fine and the velocity through the filter would be lowered allowing the filter to attract more dust particulate. Adding return air will also slow your fan speed because it is doing more work to move more air and the amperage draw of the motor would increase a few tenths of an amp.
Of course this is all a guess without actually being on site to see and test exactly what it is that is going on on your system. Good luck with your endeavor Fey.
Thanks for making this video. You have some serious skills. What I would like know is, is it necessary to have insulation inside the plenum and duct? In this video I notice you didn't use any.
If sound suppression is important as well as heat loss/gain, then yes. Neither is important in this particular job. If you enjoy metal and have the time try this playlist:th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html You may find one or two a bit interesting. Thank you for stopping in today.
Just watched this video, good information to share for DYI guys. Looking good 👌 44.
Thanks man....I know you know how tough some of these things can be. This one was a snap though.
@@tractorman4461 Yep some installs are mean. 👀🖐
@@jrobert9611 BTDT.... crawlspaces kill me. I'm DONE with them.
Man, I'm less than halfway through this video and have decided I need to learn everything about EVERYTHING from these videos. Very good instructor!!
Well, thank you for the awesome comment. I have a ton of sheet metal layout and installs in the playlists if you want to see a lot of them in one place. Here's one for example: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html and here is another: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html. Enjoy... !!
What was the reduction from air handler to supply duct 🤔
It's been several years and I don't remember the exact dimension. I had to drop it down to match the width of the existing trunk line. It looks small, but it was only a 2 ton with 800 cfm air delivery and 10kw heat on high speed. I set it to medium speed due to the trunk size. I figured the duct velocity going both directions and it was with in the allowable range. Iirc, about 800 fpm both directions. Very little air velocity noise upstairs.
Nice work, Tractorman44! Did you make that plenum box or is that pre-fab item? I am installing a similar 21x21 electric AHU & coil (Goodman), but we have limited headroom up to the existing ductwork. So I'm looking for a shallower return plenum box for the unit to sit on (has to be 8" or less). Since the existing return ductwork is 24x8, the new plenum box will have to be at least 24" deep so I don't choke down the return. Suggestions?
No pre-fab metal. It’s all field measured and fabbed in the shop custom fit for each job site. It’s hard to visualize what you have described, but if I could see it I could possibly give a proper suggestion. But on the returns, I try to minimize restrictions as much as possible many times reworking the whole return drop to accommodate proper airflow. I know that’s not a specific answer to your question but ….. good luck with what you do. Check out the attic heat pump install in the playlists if you’d like to see some installation constraints that were tough.
@@tractorman4461 I got it all worked out. Appreciate you and your reply. They don't make'em like you any more!
I admire the way you can cut that metal every time I try it take me hrs and some blood
Hahahaha...I wish I had a mile-0-meter on my snipping hand. I bet there's been more than a few miles traveled across metal !! I still get a nick or two from time to time.
What kind of weight can the return plenum support? Would there be a need to reinforce anything?
I use this and other variations for all sizes of residential and light commercial applications. I'll use 24 gauge material for the larger capacities though. I've never had a problem with 26 ga boxes all the way to 150,000 btu gas. I do put reinforcing angles inside the corners horizontally on some of them though. They support the furnaces or air handlers surprisingly well. If you like odd sheet metal fabrications, check this one out if you have time: th-cam.com/video/Pcz0iEgtuBk/w-d-xo.html
Only thing I would change is put cork pad on bottom to get off ground and cross break your metal so it doesn’t flex
Yes, I'll use the rubber-cork-rubber pad in areas where dampness is an issue. I cross-break most times, but this one being a very small 2 ton electric air handler I didn't have great concern about excessive supply or return static. Larger capacities with a higher cfm delivery, for sure require reinforcement, no doubt. Nothing I hate worse than dealing with an 'oil can' duct job. Thanks Matt for the input.
Your Sherry metal work is awesome! I'd like to get to that point my self.
Thanks for the compliment. All it takes is a little time and thought during the measuring process. Taking the extra ten minutes to double check measurements saves immeasurable time on the install. If you don't have any equipment I'd do a continual FB Marketplace search for sheet metal tools. They show up all the time....even lockformers and 8' brakes.
Does anyone know if it matters where you install the return air filter - whether at the back of the return air duct close to the furnace or at the front of it about 18 inches from the furnace?
No, the distance from the actual blower assembly will not matter but you have to make sure its in a position to ensure 100% of the systems return air flow passes through the filter.
I need help with a old house where i have a similar job but the return just stops in the wall...
Sorry I missed your comment. You will have to figure out the simplest route for the return air to flow back to the inlet of the furnace or air handler. I can't do too much with the vague description....but we cut holes in walls and floors and send the air across the space between the floor joists then duct downward into the furnaces. I doubt that helps a lot...
IT DON'T MATTER HOW YOU START, IT MATTERS HOW YOU END.
TRACTOR MAN 44
Hahahahaha...yessir Tom. I say that a LOT. Thank you for another comment ol' buddy.
Great video, thanks so much! Truly an art form
Thank you Roberto for the kind words. I am glad to see you enjoyed the installation !!
Always enjoy watching a craftsman that knows exactly how and what needs to be done. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
Well James, I can only record the installs in certain conditions so I miss a lot of them. And I appreciate all you guys that enjoy the efforts. If you want a real good one, when you have time check this playlist out: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html
That's great. And I have to say. That is the fastest hammering I've ever seen in my entire life. 17:20 Thanks
Hahahaha.... ahhhh, the marvels of modern editing software.. Thanks Jay for the fine comment. I have a couple playlists up above with some cool sheet metal content if you like it. Like this one here: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html
now that's some tin knocking at 7:38 🤣
Hahahaha....yeah, kicked it in high gear there. Thanks for watching. I hope you found the sheet metal videos up in the playlists if you are liking that kind of stuff.
Fastest Hammer in the East! LOL! T, you are a remarkably talented gentleman. I love watching your projects. As Red Green used to say - If you're not handsome , you better be handy. LOL. You are both my friend. I am sure your lovely wifey would agree. Thanks for taking us along!
Hahahaha...thank you my friend...I checked and by golly she DOES agree....LOL
What do you guys charge for it install the furnace in the deck
Being retired for close to ten years now, I am so far removed what the common charges are. I mostly install now for close friends or family and occasionally people that just cannot afford paying a contractor. I usually do it for the cost of the materials and gasoline.
👍👍👍
Hopefully you got a little evening enjoyment out of it. I appreciate you taking the time to watch. Take care and stay safe !!
I like how you make all your fittings and really like your videos. But I think you should have used a canvas connector that would have made things a lot easier to assemble
I usually only use flex connectors in residential applications where vibration resonance can possibly be a problem. Like hanging a large capacity unit from rafters in an attic. However I can remember a time or two where the replacement furnace was so close to the same dimension to the existing plenum that I cut and hand folded drive connections on one end and bent a single hem flange on the other after trimming just enough off the duct to allow the flex to make the plenum connection. We buy the metal/canvas connectors in 100' rolls for use on commercial installations. Thanks Jeffery for the thoughts as well as for watching.
You're welcome. I am a installer at a residential replacement company for the last 10 years and I appreciate watching your methods. a lot of companies in my area don't use the double half-inch ham I think it is worth the extra time it really does help make your installs look so much nicer and that much easier to run a small bead of caulk around. Please keep making videos you explain everything 💯 % perfectly
@@bigotis1776 Well, I will continue as long as there is a job or two come along. I am getting ready to do a complete system tear out at my son's house. Then go back in with a smaller size, isolating the second floor from the network. We installed a second system for the second floor in the attic last year or so and now the oversized system is now super oversized. His noise level is deafening in the living room and needs to have a total work over.
Do you ever put a concrete pad to set it on. My old home use to get an inch or two of water once in a while.
Yes. We will set them on bricks then use topping mix and build a dam around the perimeter. Mix it dry so it sets up while making the metal for the changeout.
Genius Work! Love the experience!
Thank you sir for the compliment. I might have done one or two over the 42+ years in HVAC. (-;
Thanks
Thank You Tractorman44.
You are quite welcome. I have a ton of sheet metal videos in the playlists above if you are interested. Here's one, the good stuff starts down about 6 or 7:th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html
Wow! Duct Work Artiste!
Well, that might be a bit of a stretch, but I have done a ton of metal back in the day. Retirement is nice though. Hey, here's another playlist:th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html. These will keep you busy for at least a pot of coffee !! Thanks for watching another one.
I subscribed. Awesome vide keep them up
Thanks, I do appreciate it. Being retired I only get to make a little metal when I stumble on someone needing a bit of help. Well...I do have a big family so they keep me hopping some. I do have a couple sheet metal playlists up on the tool bar if you are interested. Like this one here: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html Thanks for stopping by. I'm editing another plenum install right now too.
Remove section of supply trunk, shouldn't have been there in the first place. Install full size, non transitional plenum 1" down from floor joists, with lid and use transitional pto's with 3" rise for both directions with flexes installed on each pto. Can't you cut r/a boot with radius into side of air handler and use separate filter rack? Then furnace can be on the ground for greater plenum height. (I might be wrong about that part). Drop should be flc, then flex, then drop duct to r/a boot. Therefore greater static pressure on supply with smoother air flow. Flexes are for vibration isolation. All fittings could have been made at shop. Way easier install. Enjoyed your video and not trying to knock your efforts. Cheers.
I fabricate my r/a boxes with 1" flanges built in on 3 sides exept the front for door access. Therefore no clips required.
@@Oxatolla Virtually every job, though similar has plenty of differences.....like the return air box on this one. It's preferred entry is the bottom because of the design of the indoor coil. A bottom return provides a much more even flow of air across the coil for heat transfer. You make a lot of good points, but like I said in the description, this is just illustrates one of many ways to install an air handler. I usually go into a bit of detail in the description box and sometimes ramble a lot too, but I'd suggest scrolling back to the top, take a few minutes to read it and you might find it interesting and a bit explanatory.
I use flex connectors commercially on systems of much greater capacity, and roof top units, but this little two ton delivering 800 cfm barely makes a sound that can be heard upstairs. Actually I almost never use them in a residential system unless its a 3 1/2, 4, or 5 ton and an attic install with the ahu hanging from the rafters. I appreciate you watching and commenting and providing descriptions of alternate ways of accomplishing the project. Yours is a much better suggestion on the return air box for sure.
On a side note about the r/a box. Last year I changed one for a lady friend of a buddy that had continual freeze ups from the day it was installed many many years before. The compressor (a recip) eventually locked up. When I got there to do the tear out, I saw immediately what the root issue was. It was a slant coil with the return cut into the side of the air handler on the discharge side of the coil !! Needless to say, the replacement went in with the addition of a r/a box drawing from the bottom. Thanks again, and don't be a stranger. There's ALWAYS a reason for what you will see in my metal videos.
Hi,I’m looking to have more headroom in my basement.I have 3 ton carrier condensor and Air handler which has duct size of 26 by 8 where it starts and gets smaller as it gets longer but depth is same 8 inches so my question is can replace my ductwork with size 30 by 6 to get more headroom if that’s not going to effect on air flow? Thanks
There is a calculator that will show the changes in the system due to dimension changes you describe. I don't know right off the top of my head exactly how those particular dimensions will effect the system in ALL aspects, but the change you indicate WILL in fact increase the air velocity.
With increased velocity also comes increased noise as well as a degree of increased duct static. Increased static will increase the amp draw of the motor in the air handler because it has to work harder to move the air. Probably minimally though. The change you suggest drops the cross sectional area by 28 square inches which is pretty substantial IF the duct network isn't perfectly designed to begin with. If it started out less than perfect, the detrimental change will be greater. Hope that helps a bit.
Thank you sir for replying back 👍 like you said it’s going to increase air velocity so what size would you recommend mu ductwork to start with? Can I keep the depth 6 inches and go wider like maybe 40 by 6 to void all the problems you mentioned? I have 3 ton air handler unit.Thanks
You sir are a davinci with sheet metal! It's amazing the work you do!
Well... I'm not quite sure I would agree with you on that one, but I take it as a darn good compliment Andrew !! Thanks man. Hey...side note....I got a Poulan Pro 365 I need some parts for. Any ideas ? No luck at L'il Red Barn or chainsawr.com. Unless I poked something wrong.
@@tractorman4461 I've had really good luck finding more uncommon parts on eBay but Amazon is awesome for stuff like carb kits, fuel lines etc I think I know where one of those poulan 365's are sitting up here in the north. Meybe I can ship you a parts unit if it comes to it?
@@ButlerOutdoorsCanada hahahhaha...that's funny, I didn't know you had a parts saw. I'm hoping its only an impulse or fuel line. I've not opened it up yet so I don't know exactly what I need. It was one of those old cheapies that came my way and ran great for about 5 years. Then one day it wouldn't start. Iirc, its got spark, so I figured its a fuel line. Its not a serious saw for me, but I loved its weight for small trim work. Was great for that !!
@@tractorman4461 fair enough, the fuel lines are an easy fix if it's like the other poulans I've done you can just get a generic kit from Amazon that comes with 4 popular sizes for small engines for about $14 and the fuel filters are $5-10 for a bag of em. I like the Poulan saws for what they are. They're fairly plucky and do the job intended for em, theyre owend by Electrolux/Husqvarna now and the pro models get alot of crossover parts from the rancher model huskys, alot of people like to Poo poo them so that's why I sometimes call them the POU POUlans lol but theyre a dandy middle of the road unit.
@@ButlerOutdoorsCanada that’s kinda what I think as well. I’m mostly a stihl guy. But I won’t pass on a bargain of any kind. I think I have a Craftsman that almost identical to this one too. That sound right ? Thanks fir the above info too. I’m going to go that route.
Where you get that plenum box?
I made it in my shop, Mike. I think this is the video: th-cam.com/video/xgCBMk8z87k/w-d-xo.html In case it's not, here's another: th-cam.com/video/XXvsmJMVYT0/w-d-xo.html and this is another one yet: th-cam.com/video/sckNQxbKyNc/w-d-xo.html
Mad skills wow my plenum has mold fml
Glad you liked it !! Just another day in the field. Thanks for the comment Pitbull.
Thanks for the video!
No problem. If you like sheet metal try this playlist out for size: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html Thanks Jeff for the visit and hope to see more comments from time to time.
You make it look so easy!
Well, I always say if it was hard I wouldn't be able to do it !! (-: Btw, have you found the sheet metal playlists up above...?? If not, this one is a good one. The good fittings start down around 6 or 7th: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html Thanks for the supportive comment and thank you for watching too !!
Wear Gloves when cutting sheet metal. Shout out to the OG in the video. Your probably not as experienced. Has he mentioned, cut sheet metal can become razer edge.
Yeah, I'd say the OG in the video definitely at least a little on the 'experienced' side, considering he got into HVAC in 1975. LOL I can verify too by the scars that the sheet metal is in fact quite a lot like a very sharp knife !! I hate gloves because they make your hands soft, but recommend them to anyone else that handles this stuff. Yeah, I'm the OG in the video. LOL. Check this playlist for a lot more fittings and plenums: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html. Btw, what's an OG anyway. I figure its Old Guy...??
@@tractorman4461 lol.. my co-worker was saying the same thing this week about gloves making his hands soft.
OG originally (in the 80s) stood for "original gangster". It has in times become a term of respect. Meaning something of an "officially experienced elder within a certain trade or lifestyle" Thank you for the videos. Enjoy your day.
@@sunriseeternity300 Now that's cool !! Thank you for the awesome compliment. Me and the Missus had just decided you'd meant 'Old Guy' like I said. LOL Heck I was working in the field through the entire 80's and never heard that before.
The Bob Ross of HVAC work.
Hahahahaha...you are too kind, I'm afraid. But I DO appreciate the very kind and supportive comments from guys like you. If you'd like to see some strange fittings, try this playlist, but you better have a pot of coffee or a 12 pack of your favorite beverage if you watch all 17 videos in one sitting: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html
i appreciate the lesson
I'm just glad there are viewers that enjoy the videos. Have you checked out the playlists up above? Here's a sample you may find interesting: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html Lots of odd fittings required during this project.
Way dope Man !!!!!!!!!!
I assume you enjoyed the video...?? If so, check out a few in this playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html. Some interesting fittings down about 6 or 7 on the list. Grab a coffee or your favorite drink, sit back and relax to a little noise. Thank you for watching this one !!
Another one very well done.....Good thing you have all that spare time to help these people out.....CHEERS
Hahahahaha....I sometimes wonder myself. But I have cut it back big time this year...but there's always another one waiting...LOL. Thanks Gator for watching.
Wow. Thats all I gotta say
Thank you for watching. I'm glad you like the video. If you have time and the desire, try some of the sheet metal playlists up above like this one: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html You might find something interesting.
That was an Outstanding job ! Has always I Liked,shared. All my very best.
Thanks Bobby, I am tickled to see you liked the effort. It worked out pretty slick. Thanks for the continuing support.
High speed hammer!
Hahahahaha.....I like to speed up the boring repetitive spots in the videos. Thanks C B for the visit. Hey if you get the time, check out this playlist. A lot of strange fittings and stuff in it : th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html
Damn he's good!
Thanks V. I’ve done it a time or two. I have lots of sheet metal vids in the playlists up above. Makes it easy to find them if you are interested.
Solid work man. I personally like using just S-lock all the way around and screwing it, in thos kinds of transitions. We tape everything tho
I do when necessary...like when boxed inside a tight closet hard to get to spot. I use aluminum tape and mastic for attics and crawl spaces, but not for basement areas. Minimal leakage with tightly trimmed joints don't seem to be a problem. Here's a real good example Tommy: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html There's some crazy stuff in this one at my son's house. Attic job. Thanks for watching and commenting !!
@@tractorman4461 I like the way you made that drain pan. I've worked at like 3 different hvac companies and everyone of them still make it the way you explained with solder and the tabs on the smaller side. I'll have to try it out next change out. I'm from north Carolina been doing hvac for like 10 years lol still got alot to learn but your videos are great I'll definitely learn some things from them. Are you retired?
@@tommymatthews4984 Yes, I've been retired 9 1/2 years, after 40 years (+ -) in hvac. Most of the time in commercial service and startup, DDC controls and CW, HW and refrigerant piping. What I do for you tube videos is just help out people that kinda need a hand...or maybe friends and family. Most wouldn't be able to have it done by a contractor due to costs. I hadn't done any sheet metal for 20 years or more so I was really rusty back on my first few videos.
yes sir you good
Thank you. Btw, have you found the sheet metal playlists up top..?? Like this one: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html. There are others too with plenums and tons of fittings.
That supply adapter is bush league as hell 😂 so much unnecessary resistance right off the top of the furnace
"Bush league"....?? Not familiar with that term, but as you know with the total system static being well under .5'' w.c. there is very little if any issue with what minor increase in velocity is created with the shape of the plenum, pinching down to the physical limitations of the width of the existing duct. At that point, the duct static drops immediately to then deliver the designed air flow to the two ends of the main duct at the rate of 700 feet per minute. With balancing dampers in the six inch runs and by use of a digital velometer, the airflow was balanced to match each of the differing requirements of the rooms above. The system is very quiet and suffers none of the associated sounds of excessive duct velocity or pressure. Thanks for you your input as it provides pause to thought.
@@tractorman4461 I was just messing around man. I recently heard the term Bush League myself and have been waiting for an excuse to use it 😄
@@cd1772 Hahahaha....no problem, I just thought maybe you were pressing for a little more detail...I hate to dissappoint. LOL Btw, I just googled 'Bush League' and it said 'unprofessional'. (OUCH !!) Stemming from the early days of baseball and all the rural leagues that formed. If you wanna see some more try this playlist I set up: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html
Impressive 👌👏
Thank you for the supportive comment. Have you found the other sheet metal videos up in the playlists like this one...? th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html. Thank you for stopping by and watching.
Is there alot to be gained by using ells? My concern is with raised external static pressure when connecting a new air handler for heat pump to an already undersized duct system.
Undersized duct is probably the greatest detriment to a heat pump installation. However, with either low or high duct static, the best way to move air through a 90* turn is by incorporating turning vanes inside the fitting. Those minimize the turbulence created by the air flow 'dead-heading' prior to making the turn. Especially if it's not a rounded or angled radius. If the system is exposed, the best thing to do to lower the static is to add additional runs in the structure. Get the air into the living space at a lower velocity. It becomes a balancing act, and most times does not end with an extremely satisfied customer. I know it sounds good to make these suggestions, but application of the thoughts are sometimes a challenge. Thanks Gary for the question, I hope this helps you out some.
@@tractorman4461 thankyou. You offer more than we lookers on deserve from you! I will look into the directional fins. With going electric I can remove the B vent and use the chase for a trunk to the underserved 2nd floor. The scope of the 30 yr old furnace expandsd
@@garymartin2336 Thank you for the candid comment, and good luck with whatever you do with the system.
Cross breaks???
I probably should have added them for asththetics, but this being such a small system with only 800 cfm and low duct static I didn't add them to the metal. Also the metal is 26 ga which is thicker than normally used on small low pressure ducts. Normally 28 ga is used and with that cross breaks would surely have been added. I have quite a few other sheet metal vids up in the playlists...like this one here: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html There's quite a few boring straight duct vids but also a lot of fittings and specialty fitting as well. Like this one here: th-cam.com/video/Pcz0iEgtuBk/w-d-xo.html. Feel free to take a look and thank you for watching this one today.
Awesome!
Thanks for the supportive comment. Btw, if you like sheet metal I do have several playlists dedicated to it up top like this one here: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html. Feel free to check 'em out. Thanks again Michael.
Very good
Thanks, I am glad you found it enjoyable. Give this playlist a shot if you have a little time to spare: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html Thanks for stopping in and watching Rachida.
nice job
Cool Dennis, glad you liked it ! If you like sheet metal videos, try this set of videos on for size when you get a chance: th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html Beware, it WILL take a whole pot of coffee....or maybe a case of beer to get through them all.
A few comments.
1-this is a craftsman
2-outstanding
3-informative
4-fantastic video
Well now, that is a very unusual way to provide a candid comment....but I LIKE it !! So cool man. Hey, if you liked this one, here's a playlist of a tough job in a tight space that has a lot of fittings, duct sealing and duct insulation rolled into one series: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html Thank you very much for the comment...it is appreciated.
Thoughts on a return plenum “floor-level closable vent?” To circulate cold geothermal, basement level air up throughout the hotter upstairs spaces.
It's been my experience to notice that the vast majority of residential systems have an inadequate return air network. It seems they pretty much all suffer for air. When they lack sufficient return air, the suction pressure (negative) on the duct increases, but conversely the load decreases which allows the blower to spin UP in speed because its actually doing less work....limited by the physical constraints of the actual inadequate duct. With the increase in speed there is an increase in the noise level of the air flow, because of the increased velocity.
The most important thing to consider is the probable increase in the level of humidity in the basement area air vs the level in the living space. As that moisture laden air passes through the cooling coil, it will release some of that moisture to the cold coil then become 'conditioned' air. But the moisture in some cases may bring some odd or unacceptable basement odors into the duct. It may or may not be objectionable to some.
All that having been said, it will most likely help the system overall because it, with the added register, will be closer to having the quantity of air available that it was designed to move. The rule of thumb is 400 cfm (cubic feet per minute) per ton (12,000 btu's) of air conditioning. So for example, a three ton unit is designed to move 1200 cfm....every minute. A 2 1/2 ton unit moves 1000 CFM etc.....So if you measure every room and figure the cubic feet contained in each one, add them together you can then easily see how many minutes a system of any capacity has to run in order to do only ONE air change in your home. Too much information...?? LOL, sorry about that. Sometimes it just can't be stopped. But did you get what you were asking for in all that ?
@@tractorman4461 LOL thank you! Yes, that is very helpful! Appears that I’ve got a little bit of math to do. To keep the basement humidity in check, use a dehumidifier that runs via smart plug. Runs 1hr min per day regardless of the humidity. When high humidity is present via IoT temp/humidity sensor, it will run until it satisfies.
..So, potential CO2 backdrafting safety in mind.. Natural gas dryer and naturally venting gas water heater exist within proximity, (96% furnace has its own vents of course) what precautions exists to prevent a return vent from sucking that CO2 in and dispersing throughout the entirety of conditioned space?
Thanks!!
@@m.m.m.c.a.k.e On the gas dryers as I understand, virtually all the diluted flu gasses are vented through the wall vent along with all the moisture released from the wet clothing. If the basement door has 1'' clearance to the floor, that will be 36 square inches of area for the blower to draw air from upstairs minimizing the potential from drawing down the naturally vented flu of the water heater. If you don' t have good clearance or there's a second doorway say...at the bottom of the steps, you should consider a comparable vent opening in the door to the basement and bottom of the stairwell. That should ensure a bit of positive air flow from the upstairs to the blower. The resistance through the opening would most likely be much less than the resistance of the 3'' flue pipe.
But one test you can do to check the drawing of the flue is to start the blower and start the water heater at the same time. Take a small hand held mirror and move it vertically around the round draft collector on top of the water heater slowly. Check for escaping flu gas by continually looking at the mirror to see if any condensation appears on the surface. I use my inspection mirror to check blockages which will result in the same condition for which you show concern. I also use my eyeglasses for the test because if it is not venting correctly up the flu, the moisture from the expended flu gas will condense on the surface quickly on the mirror or glasses.
@@tractorman4461 you da man! I’ll report back.
Tractorman44 you are the man I was hesitant about doing my own sheetmetal work but now I think ill give it a try THANKS !!!
Heck yeah man. Go for it Chris. Check out this playlist...a lots more layout especially farther down the list:th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html
your workmanship is commendable. Congrats.
Thank you for watching and if you'd like to see more sheet metal videos, try this playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1tqw8ST_xdUlPoy_O-SmuBx.html I appreciate the time you took to comment as well.
You know this man is a true tradesman because he uses everything as a hammer! Haha... all joking aside, great video... im a industrial, commercial, and institutional guy, so I don't get to see many residential installs... Also on top of that, I am more of a shop guy... I like how for your tags you actually used your bar folder to make it S and Drive... never seen that before...Great job man, I hope to see more videos from you
Hahaha...yep, whatever ya got available to beat something with will do in a pinch. LOL. I too spent the last 25 years mostly in the same segment as you describe. My favorite was new building/system startup. Nothing better than working on brand new equipment. I also really enjoyed large capacity RTU DDC conversions....ripping out the old controls and actuators and installing replacements for control with the building automation systems. I also enjoyed commissioning air houses/chilled/hot water systems and all the FTU's, VAV's and building pressurization control. I really like Trane chillers and Lochinvar boiler set ups. York is my least liked along with McQuay. But I'm talking 250 ton and less. I'm not a centrifugal guy.
The list goes on...but you get it. I hadn't been involved to any degree with sheet metal since moving to that segment of the industry. I'm actually a service tech, not really a tinner, it's just at the earlier part of my career I managed to do a lot of it. I really only ran residential for the first couple years back in the 70's and early 80's. Retired now, I can play with it a bit. Btw, I have a ton of sheet metal videos up in the playlist section:th-cam.com/video/PvDab537ul4/w-d-xo.html Thanks for the visit today Greg. Retirement is GREAT !! I don't have to answer to anyone. LOL
Great video, solid skills, very informative video, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Good Morning Luis. Thanks for the nice comment. If you're into sheet metal videos and haven't seen all these yet, at your convenience check this out this playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html There's bound to be something of interest in here.
Damn, OK I’ve watched a lot of furnace guys in a lot of sheet metal work here on TH-cam and I’ve never seen anyone who is definitely got decades of muscle memory on how to put this stuff together, I learned the screwdriver sheet metal cutting trick decades ago as a way to remove a fender in the junkyard without power tools ha ha, I wish I knew you in person and could spend a year with you, I like how you work I like how you think you’re an excellent teacher and your video is one of the most practical and well edited of all the ones I’ve watched, you don’t waste time you show it has to be done and you get it done 👏👏👏
I broke in with some pretty rough guys that felt us 'kids' were there to take their jobs. Most of them wouldn't give a fella a tip or share any knowledge hardly at all. I swore if I EVER got to the point of being able to share with others I'd give it freely to anyone who cares for it. TH-cam has been an awesome avenue for that. Btw, I have several playlists above if you've the time. Like this one: th-cam.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1taVZjyeN9DKr52HQ3hhcXd.html This is a series from start to finish and you may enjoy some of the stuff in there.
@@tractorman4461 yeah I heard you say you were a visual learner and I am too, I’m mostly an electrician, I did 35 years of alarm and fire alarm work, and then everything else from doorbells to 480 V, I’ve also grown up in the building maintenance world everything from nursing homes to20 story buildings to suburban department stores to 400 room hotels.
So I’ve had my hands and everything, I’m supposed to be doing a furnace this week change out with a friend, so I’ve been doing some learning and relearning of some tips on high-efficiency venting and transitions, hopefully we’ll get a furnace to just match, his A coil is in a strange place 2 feet above the furnace so we’re just leaving all that, I will look at more of your videos I find them thoroughly enjoyable I have some stuff on my channel you might want to look at it’s mostly all kinds of stuff but there are videos of me working on my friends building on the big pumps and other stuff
Good night Wendell, looks like your knocking tin again , last time you were sweating joints in a crawl space,!
Now I have a question, after being told the installers and engineers that they will not replace and relocate a boiler from a crawl space to a utility room for me, they state code and labor, I believe that it is labor and job security ( crawl space floods) township building inspector says I can put it anywhere I want as long as it meets or exceeds code, what is your take on it?
I believe you are right. There should be no issue with relocating it to an upstairs utility room as long as its connected to a proper Class B double wall flu and has adequate combustion air for the burner....providing it is a natural gas or LP fired boiler. If its a newer 'package' style boiler, the circulating pump and expansion tank and automatic fill should be right on the boiler, so it should be a matter of rerouting the supply and return lines up to the new location. Again, assuming its a hot water boiler and not a steam boiler. A steam boiler would be a different story altogether.
How much you a job like that cost, sheet metal and labor
Sheet metal cost has jumped dramatically in the last year. Being retired, I no longer am concerned about costs because the only jobs I do are for close friends, relatives and older members of my community that just cannot afford to pay for normal services. It's my contribution for having had such a rewarding 40+ year career in commercial hvac. When I did this job, the material cost was way less than $100.00.
Wish i could pay for your services ... Had a HVAC job done and they did a half-ass job ... didnt even replace the sheet metal box under the air handler and just taped the gaps
@@Mr.Helper. Most times the box is rendered inadequate when doing a furnace change. Besides, I just don't like the looks of a shiny new product resting on something old and dingy. If you watch many of my videos, you will seldom see duct tape anywhere. At the minimum, they gaps should have been sealed with gasket tape under bends of sheet metal...in my estimation.