Unleash Your Poker Skills: The Art of Donk Betting
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- This poker skill will elevate your poker game; the art of the donk bet. Donk betting refers to leading out into anyone who has the betting lead. When and where is it best to use this technique? Bart and the caller discuss the situation.
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0:00 - Intro
1:00 - Preflop
2:11 - Flop
11:18 - Turn
15:03 - River
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If you're unsure in hold'em, and you're strong, put money in the pot. Be aggressive. It almost always pays off. I love the flop donk. I'd look to re-raise with some action.
Bonus points for not asking villain what he had, after villain just got stacked the hand immediately prior. I know guys that would have followed him out to the parking lot to get that info...
V is a FISH! _(and so is the caller)!_ Getting stacked with double donkey bets with an (apparent) overpair, man??!
One of the most intresting hands here on CP. Nice!
Wow this caller is the donk master! Inspiring
Man, that was amazing when the caller bet the turn and the villain got "out of sorts". What a clinic he put on after flopping a set vs an overpair.
I mean, he got all the money, so...
@@joncorb540 Yeah, nothing a check call, check raise turn line wouldn't have already accomplished. The donk line in this format is useless, and if original raiser was competent (realizing the donk is extremely equity driven with nuts, good draws and show down. Villain isn't doing amazing vs a range of Q9,JT, 22, 99, TT, JJ (more or less what I'd put any standard villain who donks on) would have just flatted the 100, then flatted the 200, then flatted a 400 dollar river bet and lost the minimum.
@@joncorb540 Takes so much skill to win big pots flopping Sets
@@joncorb540 Also did he get all the money from the 3rd person he got to fold AQ?
@@PhonyBologna I mean his reason for donking was because he thought the Q hits the pfr's range,then why not check raise flop?Hopefully pfr bets,cold caller comes along and then H can raise them.
The reason he then didnt reraise floip was not to knock out bluffs which is kind of faulty logic here,i dunno it just seems he was doing this just be be different,not really to maximise EV in thsi spot.
Better to try donking experiments when heads up in single raised pots
Bart with the "According to my calculations!" lmao
Game is at Peaks in Dallas
have this guy call in more!
I knew that was your voice Brad. He’s a really skilled DFW local who usually ends up w some of my money if we’re on the same table. Interesting to hear his POV navigating the hand
Love the unorthodox line
Flopped bottom set against a big pair....donk bet or no donk bet seems pretty standard that someone is getting stacked. Unfortunately, seems like the nit was the one rewarded on this one.
Lol
Creative line get paid well done. Most of the time i would be check raising but maybe i should put such plays into my arsenal more often
Thumbnail is amazing 😂
Sick line. Weird moves and lines like this are always fun to watch
I know it worked against what seems like AQ, AA or KK (or QJ of clubs maybe?), but I still don't know about this line. If he really did have AQ+, it's trivially easy to get all the money in anyway given that it's a 3 way 3 bet pot so they're not super deep from the flop. He honestly might have gotten the minimum - if he checks flop, villain 1 bets, villain 2 is always calling with AQ and V1 still isn't folding to a check raise. Then you can tell a much more believable bluff line on the turn by jamming and you'll get all of V1s money anyway and avoid potential disasters like Bart mentioned (say an A coming and the villain has KK or a Q coming when the villain has AA or KK - they can fold the river there so easily). Plus makes at least a bit out of V2.
This line really doesn't seem like it has any real chance to get more value than usual against solid hands, makes it so he always goes broke against 99 or QQ or something like a straight on the river when he may get away sometimes if beat played more standardly and is less likely to get bluffs/thin value from bad hands.
I was thinking similar - a standard line would be to x/r on the flop. But if he does that, he's probably barreling the turn anyway. He's still behind QQ and 99 on the flop, and unless he jams turn, a lot of LAG's are going to call a normal size bet with KT or T8 of clubs, putting hero in an awkward spot on the river either way.
Say hero checks flop, villain c-bets $125-$150, and BTN calls. What's hero's bet size for the x/r? Gotta be at least 4x, if not 5x, right? If he raises to $500-$750, and V1 calls, BTN is probably calling, too, depending on how big hero goes with his x/r. The pot is going to be huge going into the turn, and he's not going to want to jam on any 8, J, 10, K or A.
Not saying one method is better than the other. At the end of the day, playing bottom set OOP is a challenge either way. You're going broke if you're beat, and you're getting someone's stack if you're ahead.
Totally agree.Seems he was just doing all of this for the sake of it being unusual or that players dont know how to deal with donks in these scenarios but that doesnt means it was a max EV play.
I had a hard time following this one. Why the need to donk if the villain 3 bettor is a laggy whale?
Yeah I think people praising the play are missing the fact that it's virtually impossible to not get it all in against this villain if he has KK, AA or AQ anyway and honestly the super weird line might give him an escape valve where he thinks it's too fishy to be a bluff.
@@Jermo484 I agree. I also wondered about the 3 way nature of this. If the button really folded AQ we missed getting some of his money in the pot on the flop. Now maybe he told hero that later to impress him with what a great laydown he made & it was fiction. But it does seem like there is a chance the button calls a laggy whales C bet in position. Then hero can choose to over call or raise after those 2 have acted.
@@EllieBanks333 Yes what he achieved was folding out the cold caller button who defo wouldve called on the flop or maybe even raised flop,who knows what couldve happened with a check.
I think that when opponent does not shove the turn we can eliminate over sets and just look at him having a value hand or bluff. I would lean more toward villain having value with the preflop 3 bet and flop 3 bet.
What are some good hands to balance flop donks on boards like this? I know that going against a perceived weak opponent doesn’t require perfect balance, but is this just an exploit against such players or something we have bluffs with against better opponents? I guess you could donk/fold with draws once in a blue moon given how relatively uncommon hitting a set is, but I’m not sure if I’m even thinking about this correctly lol
“Good sh… good job with the editing”
Because of the SPR I think I would move in on the flop or check the turn and river but I think I wouldn’t donk the turn. If you were going to donk the turn, I would rather just move in on the flop. There are scare cards
I like donking turn for a very small amount, like 250. That screams blocker bet, like a decent but not great queen, or JT.
I would totally play this game! Nice 100 to 300bb capped buy in.
go on, play. Let us know how did it go.
Anytime a hand starts off with deuces I always assumed set over set
I wonder what the EV is with 3 bet 3 way OOP dueces.
I know I’m not going to play it like ever.
May as well donk, x/r or just call down, but I would have folded AQ. I would put hero on KK, AA, 99, 77 QQ, but I just don’t see putting villain on AK clubs on turn? Maybe AQc. KJc. TJc KTc.
Does gto say you should donk sometimes?
Great play by caller. Think this donk-lead line might be the new hotness for playing bottom set, rather than check-raising. Just pray the LAG villain doesn't show up with a bigger set or some sort of weird combo-draw that gets there, like T8 or KT of clubs.
if its a lag villain check raising would be more ev not just that specific hand but your overall range
@@bookedroomer Maybe heads-up, but I like this play in this configuration, where the LAG 3B pre-flop and the BTN called from behind. If hero checks flop, V1 bets, and BTN calls, hero's x/r is going to have to be much bigger, and is going to fold out all of V1's bluffs, plus a lot of the weaker hands in his range. The x/r multi-way just look so strong, whereas the donk lead could reflect a wider range for hero.
@@bookedroomer
agreed. Particularly if V1 was a loose aggressive: then a flop bet is almost guaranteed. It would also get V2 money on flop. So: no need for donkey bet on flop. Turn donk bet screams a monster hand.
Yeah god forbid it’s set over set and he loses cuz he donked. Whereas if he checked he could fold.
Is there ever a scenario where folding 22 pre is considered?
I was wondering this too, but I think stack depth is pretty nice for the call. Deep enough that you should get a decent payout if you hit your set but not like 300+ BBs effective where getting set over setted is pretty scary and you do close the action.
Yeah, in this scenario. And granted it’s a full table.
Edit: now that I look back, with the button also, calling, he’s getting a better price. But he’s still out of position. You are rarely ever seeing the turn and river when you don’t flop a set. Or not to mention the possibility of set over set. In which case, you’re absolutely going broke.
It worked out for the caller in this hand though
I like a 3bet on the flop better than to donk again on the turn.
Fancy Play Syndrome -- just check the turn.
You gave a nice explanation about when and why to donk, but you didn't really talk about his sizing. Should he have sized it up to be more than just 100 into 345? I suppose it's less likely to get raised if you bet larger, but would it have made more sense to donk for a larger amount?
I'd be interested to hear Bart's thoughts on the sizing too. Maybe the reasoning here is that the small bet size induces a spaz-raise, whereas a bigger bet is going to get more flat calls. Like, if hero bet $200, and villain calls, only $400 goes in on the flop, whereas $700 went in because villain raised. Then again, if hero checked, and villain c-bet $200, and BTN folds, hero could x/r to $600. Villain might fold, but if he calls, $1200 is going in, or even more if the BTN calls the c-bet before the x/r. Then again, if BTN does call the $200, hero has to x/r bigger, maybe to $800-$900, and villain's going to be folding a lot more, so in that scenario hero only wins the $400, rather than villain's entire stack. Seems like the small donk bet makes sense given the configuration, with the BTN behind the pre-flop 3-better in the CO, if hero expects CO to raise and BTN to fold.
@@1vailchris Besides getting spaz raises. The small donk bet can get value from hands like AKo and AJs that will mostly check flop multiway.
@@AT-bw4cm I mean, at low stakes, with a lot of fish in the pool, yeah, there will be some frequency of loose calls, as well as spaz raises, and some slow-playing with bigger sets (guys "walking the dog"). But as you move up, I think most competent players aren't going to be all that confused when you donk small. One of the reasons not to donk is that good players are more likely to read it as strength than as weakness, and are going to over-fold in situations where they likely would have c-bet or stabbed at it. Otherwise, they might call with some draws when you're laying them a good price. If villain raises, is that a spaz-raise, or a bigger set raising for value? Villain might actually bet AK or AJ, whereas if he's playing tighter, he might fold to the donk from up front. The only reason I like the donk here is that the PFR is in middle position. The donk lead induces V1 to raise, which forces the BTN to fold, whereas the BTN would have likely called V1's c-bet, putting hero in a spot where he has to X/R for a bigger bet. This line is actually a little pot-control in that light.
@@1vailchris We aren't talking about better players. It's a private game so you should know there will be loose players and the hero described villain as loose. Even in tougher lineups a donk bet will be considered weak. If the donk bettor checks the turn, the in position player will bet at a high frequency. You just won't be getting flop raise spazzing with weak hands for value.
@@AT-bw4cm I don't know what point you're trying to make here, within the context of the bet size on the flop. My point was that the smaller sizing might work better than larger sizing, for the reasons I gave. Is it going to get value from hands like AJ and AK? Maybe, maybe not. But I'd think it will get some folds, whereas a check will get some c-bets from those hands, if the villain is loose, so I think that breaks in favor of checking, not donking, but even if a donk gets value, it still seems like an argument in favor of betting smaller rather than larger.
Do you still live in Austin?
What do you think the cold calling range should be? I mean I know it's Texas lol. One day I will go to Texas.
I think he might say you shouldn''t really have one.
We all know donk aggression raises your run good by a solid 50%
I’m all for creative and non GTO lines. But I don’t like much of this past the flop donk which I think is fine most of the time.
In olden days, people didnt 3b JTs KJs as much - there aren't as many bricks as in 2010
donk betting is so under utlized in games today that it's a highly profitable play at stakes where people don't know how to adjust to it. That said wasn't there a guy who got a few WPT wins in tournaments just by incorporating it several years back because people didn't know what to do versus it?
If the flop checks through and you bet the turn is it really a donk lead cuz the pre-flop raiser checks to you
It's not longer a donk if it checks through.
The donk is so powerful in certain situations at low to mid stakes I'm actually kind of pissed when I see these hands up on TH-cam
powerful with fish, you mean?
@@pot_kivach160 yeah, most of the 1/3 and 2/5 player pool. You lead small with a set into a three bettor who has an overpaid you usually get it all.
I like the donk lead.
What exactly is donking when used in the context of this video
It means the hero lead out with a bet when pre flop the villain was last to best pre flop. Typically you’d check back to the pre flop aggressor.
I mean in general I think if your strategy consists of randomly clicking buttons when you have the nuts it’s not going to prove to be very effective
Where did k10 come from bart 😂
hate the call 22 - with original raiser still to act... barely sufficient implied, and non-zero reverse implied multi way - on this particular hand, i think I CR their overpairs, and AQ, and even KJ/ KTs 3b will bet
He doubled up and you doubled down on your thought by typing it
donk betting is rare in gto strategy
Depending on the day as the villain I either fold or raise the turn.
Wait a minute, did Bart ever play 5/10 at The Commerce in 2006-2007????
There was no 5/10 at Commerce in 2006-2007. Besides the $400 fixed buy in game. The $500-$1500 didn’t start until 2009. I mainly played Bike $5-$10 uncapped and $10-$20 at Commerce (the “$600 game) at that time.
Peaks? 👀
LOVING it. Anything non-GTO confuses the s%&£ out of people. Hilarious.
No it doesn't gto doesn't get confused
you believe that fish is gto proficient?
yea cos live poker is full of GTO experts,cmooonn broooo?
I'm assuming villain had either Kings or AQs
Why not AA?
probs KK if btn did fold AQ
Probably pair of 9 or a hand like 88. He is jamming turn with a strong Q or better. Plus he tanked on the river.
@@AT-bw4cm fish
I know he was described as laggy but you think he stacked off with less than top pair??@@AT-bw4cm
I call BS on the BTN claiming to have folded AQ on the flop. I think a normal person probably would but the type of person cold calling 3bets w AQ I don’t think so.
Why cant villan have Q9 here? Flopped 2 pair, raises the flop. That story also makes sense, no?
Hard to have Q9 in 3 bet pot for most people
Caller is actually very intelligent and strategically sound. Nice change of pace from the usual annoying callers.
Yea you can tell he had a brain, rare nowadays.
@@vsvss3839 I love the call in show but damned if he doesn’t pick the ones with the LEAST brainpower and listening skills EVERY SINGLE TIME.
@@nicholi2789 That would be nice.
donk bet might work against a fish. Skillful player would've folded A Pair to the turn donk bet and said: 'thank you' _(for letting me know)_ to a donkey!
Odd donk on this texture.
donk flop is great, the donk turn is ugly
Villain got stacked before this hand and got stacked after this hand, and caller thinks he did something creative to stack villain. Lol
This feels like a pure exploitation play. The donk on flop, I have no problem. Kinda like it. The Ddobo turn seems suboptimal and unnecessary, but it clearly totally fucked with whale’s mind.
The Art of Donk Betting…pfff, yeah sure. What next? The Magic of Limping??
Limpin is pimpin
I listen to these call ins for the absurdity, stupid lines, and flawed logic. This caller didn't satisfy that at all. Exceptionally well played.
what was well in this game? That he directly and OPENLY let his opponent know that he is holding a monster hand?
Um what?
First
yeh man you win the internet!
@@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511 Thank you. I'm so happy with this accomplishment. I've been striving to achieve this goal for so long I can barely believe it's finally happened. I'd like to thank the Lord and my mother for always being there for me.
@@jesterbob828 they are all so proud right now
Haters hate and donks donk. This donk donked twice 😂
Key to poker success: whatever Bart does…do the opposite